Aquaponics Digest - Mon 01/03/00

Message 1: Re: Tom, Water Quality & Plant Nutrients
 from "Barry Thomas" 

Message 2: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Tue12/21/99
 from wills/nachreiner 

Message 3: Leaf nutrient analysis, was: Tom, Water Quality & Plant Nutrients
 from "Mark Brotman" 

Message 4: Re: Leaf nutrient analysis, was: Tom, Water Quality & Plant
Nutrients
 from Bagelhole1

Message 5: Re: Happy New Year!
 from S & S Aqua Farm 

Message 6: Re: Red on fin edges
 from S & S Aqua Farm 

Message 7: unsubscribe
 from A Calabretta 

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| Message 1 |
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Subject: Re: Tom, Water Quality & Plant Nutrients
From:"Barry Thomas" 
Date:Mon, 3 Jan 2000 16:55:29 -0000

Tom O,

Happy New Year!


> The pump is timed to pump every hour for about
> one minute.

I don't think this is anything like enough. Thing is, at the moment your
fish tank (which is now a pond) and grow bed (2 ltr bottles) are almost
entirely independent of each other. All the cleaning of the fish water
is being done in the tank rather than the grow bed which effectively
just gets watered occasionally from the pond.

This will be doing very little in the way of aeration also.

I suggest you run the pump continuously. If the flow is too great for
the bottles, install a T-piece and tap valve so that you can "waste" the
excess straight back to the fish tank (giving additional aeration as
well).

> It pumps the fishwater up the 1/2" tubing to the

Might have to reduce the outlet size slightly if running continuously.

> top of the greenhouse where it goes out spouts
> down into the vertically hung,2 liter plastic
> bottles holding the vegetables. The broccoli's
> are beginningto develope, but in a long thin,
> unnatural way so far.

So you have vegetables in addition to the water hyacinth? I'm not sure
there's enough nutrient around for both (I believe the hyacinth is a
_very_ hungry plant).

Also, from your previous descriptions, I get the impression that the
bottles only have a small amount of media (what are you using?) in them?
Is it possible to increase this without distubing the plants too much?
This would give your plants/bacteria more of a chance to make use of the
nutrient and become a proper biofilter.

To increase the amount of nutrient to the plants, feed the fish. What
doesn't get eaten by the fish will feed the grow bed directly (once
established - start slowly).

One other thing that might be worth trying is to connect a couple of
your bottle stacks to a seperate pump and tank to make a small hydro
system. Something to compare against and to check that there aren't any
other aspects of your setup causing problems.

Remember, the idea is not to create something self-sustaining but that
generates an excess - your crop.

Hope this helps anyway. Would have mailed direct but thought I'd better
run it via the list in case any of it is _too_ wrong.:)

Barry
barrythomas@btinternet.com

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| Message 2 |
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Subject: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Tue12/21/99
From:wills/nachreiner 
Date:Mon, 03 Jan 2000 11:02:14 -0600

I have been behind in my reading and then was surprised how long it took
the list to respond to what I considered the core of the Monsanto/Ge
problem.Finally you got there.First, we don't know what the stuff will
do.We don't know how pests will evolve.We don't know how genes will
transfer across species.We don't know how human's will react.We don't
know how butterfly's and other benign animals will be impacted.Its all
too much too fast with no forethought or research.Second, Monsanto has
been at the forefront of taking away our choice.They fought labeling,
they lobbied for government approval.They fought to make crazy laws that
prevent us from labeling our products as rBGH free in many states and in
others require us to make a false disclaimer.That is, at Monsanto's
urging we are forced to state that " There is no significant difference
between milk from treated and untreated cows", when we know for a fact that
treating cows with synthetic growth hormones increases the level of the
hormone and increases the level of insulin like growth factor and raises
the likelihood that milk will contain antibiotics to offset the tendency
for treated cows to have more disease, abortions and twinning.
 I confess that after the threats and political pressures that Monsanto
put on us and other companies that wanted to put old fashioned products on
the shelves, I take great delight in their struggles.Good riddance and
may the same happen to their successors and any other companies that try to
thrust this stuff down the world's throats. 

O.K. so I'm a bit crazed about this.However, all our organic farmers are
making a good living and we badly need more organic milk to meet the huge
demand.

Sorry for the deviation from the purpose of the list. If you make me
justify it I can come up with a logical connection.A new day is dawning
and we're still here.

Bob

At 12:14 PM 12/22/1999 EST, you wrote:
>In a message dated 12/22/1999 12:04:17 AM Central Standard Time, 
>aquaponics-digest-request@townsqr.com writes:
>
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> | Message 6 |
> '------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
> Subject: Re: Monsanto "Genetic Engineering" may sell out?
> From:Jim 
> Date:Tue, 21 Dec 1999 10:09:44 -0600
><< it's simply not possible to fill the
> volume needed with pure organic. We'd have to plow under the world.
> Which prairies, and forests do you want cleared and planted if we give
> up chemicals and GE?
> 
> Jim>>
> 
>***************************************************************************
***
>********
>Jim,
>I have real difficulty with that statement.
>
>When you read the literature from any group--- hydroponic-- organic--
>--- genetic modified---or conventional chemical proponents, they all claim 
>their " system" is superior to everything else. My observation is that all 
>systems ,when done well, produce about the same amount of food per unit of 
>surface area. 
>
>The problems come with the economics and politics of any particular "system" 
>of agriculture. Conventional agriculture deplets and sterilizes the soil but 
>
>I cannot say if GM foods are safe or not, but I can say I do not want to eat 
>them. Organic produced foods are safe and I do not mind paying more for them
>
>Regards,
>Dave
>
>
Box185 Plain,Wi 53577
(608) 546-2712

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| Message 3 |
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Subject: Leaf nutrient analysis, was: Tom, Water Quality & Plant Nutrients
From:"Mark Brotman" 
Date:Mon, 03 Jan 2000 13:37:42 -0500

Tom,

For leaf analysis, the first place I'd check would be local ag extension services
and/or nearby university soil/water analysis labs.That could give you some
potentially valuable face-to-face contact and possibly reduce costs.Other than
that I can recommend MicroMacro, 183 Paradise Blvd., Suite 108, Athens, GA30607,
1-800-TEST-MMI, or ph 706-548-4577, fax 706-548-4891.They test water and
hydroponic solution, media, plant tissue and soil and will even do plant pathology
for you.They'll give you specific instructions for collecting and sending off a
sample.

By the way, you mentioned "long thin, unnatural" broccoli sprouts-- long, spindly
seedlings or plants can mean there's inadequate light, or a particular spectrum of
the light it needs is inadequate.I ran some experiments with different shade
cloths (fiber shape, weave and color) in the tropics and found that certain ones
blocked blue light enough that the romaine a) had smaller leaves, b) the distances
between leaves was far greater, and c) some of the stalks semed to twist on their
way up.How's your lighting intensity and spectrum?

Good luck and keep us posted on any results!

Mark Brotman

Bagelhole1 wrote:

> In a message dated 12/28/99 8:39:30 AM, OOWON@netscape.net writes:
>
> <<>Have you had a leaf nutrient analysis done lately?
> That can cut out all the guesswork and save loads of time and fretting.
> Mark Brotman
>
> *What is the water quality Tom?NPK, turbidity, algaeal content, color,
> smell, iron, & trace elements plants use... What amendments do you use?When?
>How much.Do you water-feed the plants only, or feed them detritus directly
> also?How do you track it and what trends seem to be showing over the time
> frame in question plus the that much amount of time earlier, (as symptoms may
> show after the fact, as plants run on reserves a while.)
>
> Bill
>
> Water quality is clearer and clearer, there is dirt on the bottom and about
> an 8' x 8"diameter roll of hay, in mesh, sunk at the bottom on one side. This
> was Adriana's idea to keep the algae out, and it has worked well, now that
> its sunk after maybe 4 months, it still may be effective, or maybe I should
> replace it. But there are now about 2/3 of the surface is covered with
> plants, which I believe helps keep it clean. The pump is timed to pump every
> hour for about one minute. It pumps the fishwater up the 1/2" tubing to the
> top of the greenhouse where it goes out spouts down into the vertically hung,
> 2 liter plastic bottles holding the vegetables. The broccoli's are beginning
> to develope, but in a long thin, unnatural way so far.
>
> I like your idea of having the leaf analyzed, do nurseries do that? I'm
> thinking there are microorganisms that the catfish may be eating. Anyway
> thanks for your help.
>
> Un oaf fish ally,
> Tom O
> http://bagelhole.org

--
Mark J. Brotman
Aquaculturist
CropKing
5050 Greenwich Rd.
Seville, OH44273
Tel: 330/769-2002, Fax: 330/769-2616
Email: mbrotman@cropking.com
On the web at http://www.cropking.com

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| Message 4 |
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Subject: Re: Leaf nutrient analysis, was: Tom, Water Quality & Plant
Nutrients
From:Bagelhole1
Date:Mon, 3 Jan 2000 14:19:31 EST

In a message dated 1/3/00 7:34:58 PM, mbrotman@cropking.com writes:

<Happy New Year to everyone - Just want allof you to know that I have 
>completed 1 growing bed 2'x8'x1' according to S&S plans and yesterday 
>1-1-2000 around noon I planted some LETTUCE and at 8 AM today there were 
>little white sprouts - SO WHAT a GREAT way to start the NEW YEAR can't wait 
>to get in full swing.

Great news, Bert!And to all our list members, we hope this year is
starting off to be a good one for you.Best wishes to all!!

Tom and Paula Speraneo
S&S Aqua Farm, http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/

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| Message 6 |
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Subject: Re: Red on fin edges
From:S & S Aqua Farm 
Date:Mon, 03 Jan 2000 14:37:35 -0600

At 09:20 AM 01/02/2000 -0600, you wrote:
>Does red on the edge of fin edges indicate a problem?My brood stock have
>this and I'm not sure what to do about it.Any advice ?
>
>Jay Myers
>Panama City Beach, Fl.

Jay, my understanding is that inflamed (red) fins and tails are indicative
of several possible problems.Have you contacted your supplier?

Can you give us any other particulars about your water conditions, etc. that
might contribute to some better analysis?

Paula
S&S Aqua Farm, http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/

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| Message 7 |
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Subject: unsubscribe
From:A Calabretta 
Date:Mon, 3 Jan 2000 14:30:11 -0800 (PST)

unsubscribe