Aquaponics Digest - Thu 02/10/00
Message 1: Re: Fw: pump operations
from MUDDTOO
Message 2: Re: Selective cooling
from Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Message 3: Re: Fw: pump operations
from Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Message 4: Re: Fw: pump operations
from S & S Aqua Farm
Message 5: Steve's DO problems, was Re: Fw: pump operations
from S & S Aqua Farm
Message 6: Re: Mark Brotman
from "Mark Brotman"
Message 7: RE: Mark Brotman
from "Ron Brooks"
Message 8: tinkering
from Carolyn Hoagland
Message 9: server burp
from "Mark Brotman"
Message 10: sorry!
from "Mark Brotman"
Message 11: Off Topic - Joke
from S & S Aqua Farm
Message 12: Feeding options, was Re: Aquaponics/hydroponics,
from S & S Aqua Farm
Message 13: Chris Weaver's system, was Re: Heating
from S & S Aqua Farm
Message 14: Re: The ideal business
from S & S Aqua Farm
Message 15: Re: Selective cooling. Was: The ideal business
from "Barry Thomas"
Message 16: Re: Selective cooling. Was: The ideal business
from "Barry Thomas"
Message 17: Re: Feeding options, was Re: Aquaponics/hydroponics,
from "Sam Levy"
Message 18:
from Peggy & Emmett
Message 19: Re: Fw: pump operations
from "Steve"
Message 20: Re: Steve's DO problems, was Re: Fw: pump operations
from "Steve"
Message 21: Re: Selective cooling. Was: The ideal business
from Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Message 22: Re: Fw: pump operations
from "D.Bennett"
Message 23: Re: Selective cooling. Was: The ideal business
from "Barry Thomas"
Message 24: Re: tinkering
from "TGTX"
Message 25: Feeding options --- manure!!!
from "D.Bennett"
Message 26: Re: Feeding options --- manure!!!
from atkindw@cwjamaica.com (david w atkinson)
Message 27: Re: Feeding options --- manure!!!
from Marc & Marcy
Message 28: Re: Feeding options --- manure!!!
from CAVM
Message 29: Re: Feeding options --- manure!!!
from mmiller@pcsia.com
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| Message 1 |
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Subject: Re: Fw: pump operations
From: MUDDTOO
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 01:48:55 EST
In a message dated 2/9/00 9:08:47 PM Pacific Standard Time,
levysam@hotmail.com writes:
> you've discovered that 3 hrs off at your current feeding rate is too long
an
> off time. try this: check DO, turn off pump, check DO every 10-15
minutes
> until it drops to 3 ppm, turn the pump on, check every 10-15 mins until
you
> reach the same level as before you shut down. repeat this procedure early
> morning, mid morning, early afternoon, late afternoon, early eveing, night.
>
> you now have an idea of maximum off time and minimum on time for your
> current load. i would use 1/2 the off time and add 50 - 100% to the on
time
> as rough approximation--use the extremes.
>
> decide if the electricity savings are worth it to you. if yes, remember,
> you'll still have to monitor as your system load may change.
Hi All,
I find that the failure mode of electronic equipment in nearly always at turn
on. So I don't turn things off and they last almost forever. In one of my
hydroponic systems I have ran the pump continuously for two years without
problems. The plants are fed from a slow flowing drip line constantly and do
well (in perlite filled sand bags w/ tomatoes and peppers). NFT requires
this constant flow also. In another setup I use a standard washing machine
electric valve connected to a timer to control the flow cycle. The water
valve requires a lot less power then the pump and is easily controlled by a
$5.00 US timer.
Have fun,
Joel
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| Message 2 |
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Subject: Re: Selective cooling
From: Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 04:10:28 -0500
> Has anyone tried the following, instead of refrigerating the ENTIRE growing
> bed with an air conditioner after you seed it?
> 1) Putting the lettuce seed, prior to seeding onto the grow bed, in the
> FREEZER, not the refrigerator, for about 24 hours or so?
I've done something similar with mache with good results, only it was
refrigerated.
> 2) Overhead misting of the chilled lettuce seed that has now been sprinkled
No, could you post the specs for this here system?
> 3) Selecting varieties that can and do sprout in higher temperatures under
and get red color too??? no way! that variety hasn't been made yet. What
we need is a good tropical lettuce breeder to work on it for us.
Adriana
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| Message 3 |
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Subject: Re: Fw: pump operations
From: Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 04:21:50 -0500
> I find that the failure mode of electronic equipment in nearly always at turn
> on. So I don't turn things off and they last almost forever. In one of my
> hydroponic systems I have ran the pump continuously for two years without
> problems. The plants are fed from a slow flowing drip line constantly and do
> well (in perlite filled sand bags w/ tomatoes and peppers).
One other consideration for those of you running continuous drip
systems. If you shut the pump off overnight, you will need to increase
the capacity of your nutrient tank to hold the excess water which drains
out of the beds overnight.
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| Message 4 |
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Subject: Re: Fw: pump operations
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 06:32:28 -0600
At 10:00 PM 02/09/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>
> Hi, can anyone tell me if i really need a timer for the pump? Or can I
operate the pump 24 hrs? Do the continuous flow of water affect plant growth?
>
>
Sheik
As you can tell from the variety of answers you've received, there really
are lots of possible "answers" to your question, and as Adriana says, it
really depends on your system. Perhaps you should explain to us exactly
what type of system you have so that we can better answer you.
Are you running hydroponics from a nutrient tank, aquaponics from a fish
tank? What type of filtration are you using (plants, media, size, etc.)?
All these things will have impact on the pumping system.
Paula
S&S Aqua Farm, http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
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| Message 5 |
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Subject: Steve's DO problems, was Re: Fw: pump operations
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 06:36:19 -0600
At 10:13 PM 02/09/2000 -0600, you wrote:
>Here is an interesting note on running your pump 24 hrs/day. I had my pump
>set for 5 hrs on & 3 hrs off...trying to conserve electricity. Well, I
>conserved electricity and almost had 1,000 + dead fish...just caught it in
>time...had a DO of 2mg/ltr and they were all sucking air. Needless to say, I
>now have it running continuously. ALMOST KILLED ALL OF MY BABIES THAT I
>WORKED SO HARD TO GET BIG!!
>
>Steve
Steve - what overall design is your system? Are you pumping through an NFT
system?
Paula
S&S Aqua Farm, http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
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| Message 6 |
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Subject: Re: Mark Brotman
From: "Mark Brotman"
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 09:06:59 -0500
Hi Ron,
Didn't know the megsinet server had a hiccup. What's up?
Mark
Ron Brooks wrote:
> Excuse the way I am trying to get to Mark
>
> Mark I tried to email you from the addy you sent your mail to me
> and have gotten an error
>
> The following addresses had transient non-fatal errors -----
>
>
> Please write me back with one that works :)
>
> Ron
> The One Who Walks Two Paths
--
Mark J. Brotman
Aquaculturist
CropKing
5050 Greenwich Rd.
Seville, OH 44273
Tel: 330/769-2002, Fax: 330/769-2616
Email: mbrotman@cropking.com
On the web at http://www.cropking.com
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| Message 7 |
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Subject: RE: Mark Brotman
From: "Ron Brooks"
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 09:29:41 -0500
Not much I replied to your email with some suggestions and then when it did
not go through was at a loss of where to send it. So thought I would stick
my head up so to speak here and yell for you LOL. Since you had written from
your home system I thought I would not send it to your work system :) So I
can try it again.
Ron
-> -----Original Message-----
-> From: aquaponics
-> [mailto:aquaponics]On Behalf Of Mark Brotman
-> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2000 9:07 AM
-> To: aquaponics@townsqr.com
-> Subject: Re: Mark Brotman
->
->
-> Hi Ron,
->
-> Didn't know the megsinet server had a hiccup. What's up?
->
-> Mark
->
->
->
-> Ron Brooks wrote:
->
-> > Excuse the way I am trying to get to Mark
-> >
-> > Mark I tried to email you from the addy you sent your mail to me
-> > and have gotten an error
-> >
-> > The following addresses had transient non-fatal errors -----
-> >
-> >
-> > Please write me back with one that works :)
-> >
-> > Ron
-> > The One Who Walks Two Paths
->
-> --
-> Mark J. Brotman
-> Aquaculturist
-> CropKing
-> 5050 Greenwich Rd.
-> Seville, OH 44273
-> Tel: 330/769-2002, Fax: 330/769-2616
-> Email: mbrotman@cropking.com
-> On the web at http://www.cropking.com
->
->
->
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| Message 8 |
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Subject: tinkering
From: Carolyn Hoagland
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 09:01:25 -0500
>Adrianna wrote:
>WARNING TO AQUAPONICS/HYDROPONICS WANNABES: You have to love being a
>tinkerer to keep things going; it's a good part of the fun of it.
Uh oh, Adrianna, that was like waving a red flag in front of a bull! Tinkering is my
*favorite* thing to do. I've been looking for a hobby that will provide the maximum
amount of tinkering pleasure, - it looks like this may be it. Thanks for the info.
Carolyn Hoalgand
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| Message 9 |
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Subject: server burp
From: "Mark Brotman"
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 10:07:19 -0500
Thanks Ron, I use a deviant email route here, so things are fairly secure. As a
general rule I don't use the work station here for personal stuff, but once in a
while it can't be helped. I'll check up on the connection, too, when I get home
tonight. Again, appreciate your thoughts on this :)
Mark
Ron Brooks wrote:
> Not much I replied to your email with some suggestions and then when it did
> not go through was at a loss of where to send it. So thought I would stick
> my head up so to speak here and yell for you LOL. Since you had written from
> your home system I thought I would not send it to your work system :) So I
> can try it again.
>
> Ron
>
> -> -----Original Message-----
> -> From: aquaponics
> -> [mailto:aquaponics]On Behalf Of Mark Brotman
> -> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2000 9:07 AM
> -> To: aquaponics@townsqr.com
> -> Subject: Re: Mark Brotman
> ->
> ->
> -> Hi Ron,
> ->
> -> Didn't know the megsinet server had a hiccup. What's up?
> ->
> -> Mark
> ->
> ->
> ->
> -> Ron Brooks wrote:
> ->
> -> > Excuse the way I am trying to get to Mark
> -> >
> -> > Mark I tried to email you from the addy you sent your mail to me
> -> > and have gotten an error
> -> >
> -> > The following addresses had transient non-fatal errors -----
> -> >
> -> >
> -> > Please write me back with one that works :)
> -> >
> -> > Ron
> -> > The One Who Walks Two Paths
> ->
> -> --
> -> Mark J. Brotman
> -> Aquaculturist
> -> CropKing
> -> 5050 Greenwich Rd.
> -> Seville, OH 44273
> -> Tel: 330/769-2002, Fax: 330/769-2616
> -> Email: mbrotman@cropking.com
> -> On the web at http://www.cropking.com
> ->
> ->
> ->
--
Mark J. Brotman
Aquaculturist
CropKing
5050 Greenwich Rd.
Seville, OH 44273
Tel: 330/769-2002, Fax: 330/769-2616
Email: mbrotman@cropking.com
On the web at http://www.cropking.com
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| Message 10 |
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Subject: sorry!
From: "Mark Brotman"
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 10:16:00 -0500
Sorry folks! It won't happen again-- I swear!
Mark Brotman
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| Message 11 |
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Subject: Off Topic - Joke
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 09:14:39 -0600
Found this while going through my files - it's a good one to have around for
those times when the list you're on gets a little crazy over nothing -- Hope
you all have a wonderful day:>) Paula
--------------------------------------------------
How many people does it take to change a light bulb in=20
cyberspace?...=20
1 to successfully change the light bulb and to post to the=20
mail list that the light bulb has been changed.=20
14 to share similar experiences of changing light bulbs and=20
how the light bulb could have been changed differently.=20
7 to caution about the dangers of changing light bulbs.=20
27 to point out spelling/grammar errors in posts about=20
changing light bulbs.=20
53 to flame the spell checkers.=20
156 to write to the list administrator complaining about=20
the light bulb discussion and its inappropriateness to=20
this mail list.=20
41 to correct spelling in the spelling/grammar flames.=20
109 to post that this list is not about light bulbs and=20
to please take this email exchange to alt.lite.bulb.=20
203 to demand that cross posting to alt.grammar,=20
alt.spelling and alt.punctuation about changing light=20
bulbs be stopped.=20
111 to defend the posting to this list, saying that,=20
"We are all using light bulbs and therefore the posts=20
**are** relevant to this mail list."=20
306 to debate which method of changing light bulbs is=20
superior, where to buy the best light bulbs, what brands=20
of light bulb work best for this technique, and what=20
brands are faulty.=20
27 to post URLs where one can see examples of different=20
light bulbs.=20
14 to post that the URLs were posted incorrectly and to=20
post corrected URLs.=20
3 to post about links they found from the URLs that are=20
relevant to this list, which makes light bulbs relevant=20
to this list. =20
33 to collate all posts to date, then quote them=20
including all headers and footers, and then add=20
"Me Too."=20
12 to post to the list that they are unsubscribing=20
because they cannot handle the light bulb controversy.=20
19 to quote the "Me Too's" to say, "Me Three."=20
4 to suggest that posters request the light bulb FAQ.=20
1 to propose new alt.change.lite.bulb newsgroup.=20
47 to say that this is just what this list was meant=20
for, leave it here.=20
143 votes for a new list alt.lite.bulb.=20
38 votes proclaiming the advantages in using vintage=20
light bulbs.
=BB=EF=CF=EF=AB,=B8=B8,=BB=EF=CF=EF=AB,=B8=B8,=BB=EF=CF=EF=AB,=B8=B8,=BB=EF=
=CF=EF=AB,=B8=B8,=BB=EF=CF=EF=AB,=B8=B8,=BB=EF=CF=EF=AB,=B8=B8,=BB=EF=CF=EF=
=AB
A group of psychiatrists were attending a convention. Four=20
of them decided to leave, and walked out together. =A0=A0One=20
said to the other three, "People are always coming to us=20
with their guilt and fears, but we have no one that we can=20
go to when we have problems." The others agreed.=20
Then one said, "Since we are all professionals, why don't=20
we take some time right now to hear each other out?" The=20
other three agreed.=20
The first then confessed, "I have an uncontrollable desire=20
for sex and I frequently seduce my female patients." =A0=A0The=20
second psychiatrist said, "I love expensive things and so=20
I find ways to cheat my patients out of their money whenever=20
I can so I can buy the things I want."=20
The third followed with, "I'm involved with selling drugs=20
and often get my patients to sell them for me." =A0=A0The=20
fourth psychiatrist then confessed, "I know I'm not=20
supposed to, but no matter how hard I try, I can't keep a=20
secret."=20
------------------------------------------------------
A complete joke archive can be found at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/ccjokes@onelist.com/
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| Message 12 |
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Subject: Feeding options, was Re: Aquaponics/hydroponics,
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 09:24:58 -0600
At 11:24 PM 02/08/2000 PST, Sam wrote:
>paula,
>
>since you mentioned feeders, how do you feed your fish? (i"ve always been a
>big fan of demand feeders--partly becouse of some the the reasons you
>mentioned.
Sam, we feed manually....by choice. I personaly have an inherent dislike
for things mechanical -- cars, lawnmowers, COMPUTERS -- that tend to
malfunction just when you aren't paying close attention. Tom does not share
this aversion, but we've found feeding by "human power" to be the most
efficient overall in terms of helping monitor systems on a timely basis.
If you (or someone you've trained) are there personally, however many times
a day you feed, you have an opportunity to gauge the balance of your system.
If the fish are off their feed, or won't eat at a time when they normally
would, then you have some evaluation steps to take. Overfeeding or
under-estimating the function of your grow beds (filtration system) at the
wrong time can really throw your system out of balance. If/when that
happens, it helps to quickly take the feed out of the equation while you
sort through the remaining options.
But, we're certainly open for discussion on this. What are others'
experiences with mechanical or automatic-timed feeding systems? And what
can/does happen in demand-feeders if they're tripped by fish thrown into a
panic by some unforeseen occurrence?
Paula
S&S Aqua Farm, http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
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| Message 13 |
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Subject: Chris Weaver's system, was Re: Heating
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 09:34:03 -0600
At 07:39 AM 02/09/2000 -0500, Chris Weaver wrote:
>Our 5600 sq. ft greenhouse is located 45 minutes north east of Toronto,
>Canada. The walls of the greenhouse (lexan) have an R-value of only 1.7. We
>add approx. 20,000 litres of well water to our system every day at 9 degrees
>celcius (~48 F). We use ordinary natural gas pool heaters to heat our water.
>The only down side is that our gas bill is about $11,000 U.S. per year.
>
>Recently, we hung 300 feet of 1" poly pipe from the rafters of our greenhouse
>and run all of our makeup water through it and the temperature during the day
>is increased from 9 degrees to 14 degrees celcius (sorry for the metric). It
>is a good experiment and I plan on adding several hundred more feet of hose to
>gain more heat.
Chris - that's a interesting solution to raising water temps. What kind of
system do you have that requires 20,000 litres of make-up water per day?
Are you running an aquaculture or aquaponics set-up in that house? AND,
can I supply your gas and electric next year? :>)
Paula
S&S Aqua Farm, http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
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| Message 14 |
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Subject: Re: The ideal business
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 09:40:27 -0600
At 12:33 PM 02/09/2000 -0500, Adriana wrote:
>You caught me at a good time to do this analysis. Sunday was the 1-year
>anniversary of signing the lease on my greenhouse.
Happy anniversay, and thanks for the great post. You've really done well
with your first year ---- now how do I make this computer show applause??
Paula
S&S Aqua Farm, http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
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| Message 15 |
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Subject: Re: Selective cooling. Was: The ideal business
From: "Barry Thomas"
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 17:20:13 -0000
> Has anyone tried the following, instead of refrigerating
> the ENTIRE growing bed with an air conditioner after
> you seed it?
>
> 1) Putting the lettuce seed, prior to seeding onto the
> grow bed, in the FREEZER, not the refrigerator, for
> about 24 hours or so?
>Then sprinkling the chilled seed onto the hot bed?
How does this work - thermal shock is a good thing for seeds?
> 2) Overhead misting of the chilled lettuce seed that
> has now been sprinkled onto the grow bed in the
> greenhouse, with a well designed and custom-timed
> overhead mist propagation system, so that evaporative
> chilling on the surface of the grow bed takes place
> frequently enough to encourage lettuce germination,
As the likely cost and complexity of a fixed misting system capable of
maintaining a number of beds at different temps (or cooling the lot to
germination temps) seems rather high, I assume you mean a mobile unit?
Could be tricky supplying it with water?
> but not so often that surface molds and fungus gnats develop,
> thereby increasing the chances of good germination rates?
Might not the misting aggravate this to a degree? As well as cooling, I
would think that the mist unit will act as an atmospheric scrubber. This
is all well and good except that what is removed from the air will be
deposited straight onto the grow bed...
> 3) Selecting varieties that can and do sprout in higher temperatures
under
> your local conditions in such a way that you can both achieve adequate
> germination and the market requirements of a good salad mix?
Well, yes, but a little depressing if your customers don't want those
varieties.
One possible way to cool a bed and provide it with some extra protection
until plants and (friendly) bacteria are established could be to keep
Adriana's portable germination tent but leave out the AC unit and cool
instead by pumping air into a few lengths of perforated tube laid on the
bottom of the bed, evaporatively cooling the nutrient (the depth of
which may need to be increased slightly during this time) and the media
directly. I would think that the cool(er), clean, moisture-laden air
moving up through the media would help provide good germination and
rooting conditions. In addition, the fact that the airflow (though
small) is outwards from the bed should give some protection from
airborne contaminants. This is increased further if the tent fits
reasonably well - not aiming at actually pressurizing the thing but so
long as there are no gaping holes the general aiflow should always be
away from the bed.
Each bed would need to be fitted with the perforated tube but this is
cheap. The tent and air supply (which could be a few large aquarium
pumps as a low cost experiment) only need to be large enough to supply
one bed, being moved about as required. A filter of some form at the air
pump inlet(s) is obviously desirable. Cheap or expensive depending on
how far you want to go but the relatively low airflow should mean even a
very fine filter should last a while.
Just a suggestion. Anyone see any problems, better ways etc?
One other suggestion (from my mother actually) is to put the seed into a
sealed plastic bag of damp media and hold this at whatever the optimal
germination temp is for your plants. This should be fairly easy as the
volume involved is so small (though complicated slightly if seeds need
light to start). When germination has occured, the whole lot is spread
onto the bed at a density appropriate for the _actual_ germination rate.
So, the beds should be more evenly filled and you should also lop a day
or two off the time that they are empty and vulnerable. Seems worth a
try, anyway?
Barry
barrythomas@btinternet.com
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| Message 16 |
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Subject: Re: Selective cooling. Was: The ideal business
From: "Barry Thomas"
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 18:14:04 -0000
> > 3) Selecting varieties that can and do sprout in higher temperatures
> under
> > your local conditions in such a way that you can both achieve
adequate
> > germination and the market requirements of a good salad mix?
>
> Well, yes, but a little depressing if your customers don't want those
> varieties.
Sorry, just read this again and my reply doesn't make much sense. Still,
this approach does seem rather limiting?
Barry
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| Message 17 |
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Subject: Re: Feeding options, was Re: Aquaponics/hydroponics,
From: "Sam Levy"
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 12:59:37 PST
paula,
i like demand feeders because the fish determine how much and when they want
to eat--my background is strictly aquaculture & have found that not all
species want to eat at the same times of day. you can watch them operating
the feeder as you go by on other tasks--also, if the hopper is a light color
or clear fiberglass you can see the progresss of the feeing from anywhere in
"eyeshot". one of the major drawbacks claimed is that a very few number of
fish will dominate the space under the feeder--this too will vary with
culture species, i believe and i don't recall any scientific work
demonstrating a larger size spread among populations fed w/demand versus
hand or mechanical scatter feeders, nor did we notice any repercussions in
terms of growth that would be explained by this phenomenon.
note: i am speaking of fish of at least 80 - 100 grams minimum (smaller ones
we fed with scatter feeders to feed most of them at the same time).
i also found them a useful tool in conjunction with mechanical feeders (i
had the demand feeders already in place anyway)--we'd feed about 2/3 of the
daily portion through the mechanical feeders & add the rest about mid-day to
the demand feeders--along with 10-15% extra as a check on our feed
estimations and prevent overfeeding (the uneaten feed will still be in the
hopper next morning)
as i recall--though i can't cite one now-studies of hand feeding suggest
that this method often results in an overfeeding of up to 10%.
again, as hand feeding obviously works for you, that's fine--i know many
people who feel exactly as you do in this respect. i've learned over the
years that there's no ONE correct way, there are always additional
strategies/techniques to reach the same result.
as for the operation in a panic, if the fish turn tail and run they
shouldn't be hitting the rod more than once or twice & that shouldn't drop a
lot of food--if the device has been set properly--again i did not work with
extremely dense systems, although if there's room for them to flee i would
expect the above statement to hold true.
as always, no feeder will pre-empt the effective monitoring of an intensive
culture system.
sam
>
>Sam, we feed manually....by choice. I personaly have an inherent dislike
>for things mechanical -- cars, lawnmowers, COMPUTERS -- that tend to
>malfunction just when you aren't paying close attention. Tom does not
>share
>this aversion, but we've found feeding by "human power" to be the most
>efficient overall in terms of helping monitor systems on a timely basis.
>
>
Overfeeding or
>under-estimating the function of your grow beds (filtration system) at the
>wrong time can really throw your system out of balance. If/when that
>happens, it helps to quickly take the feed out of the equation while you
>sort through the remaining options.
what
>can/does happen in demand-feeders if they're tripped by fish thrown into a
>panic by some unforeseen occurrence?
>
>Paula
>S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO 65775 417-256-5124
>Web page http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
>
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| Message 18 |
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Subject:
From: Peggy & Emmett
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 16:01:35 -0500
Thanks Paula, I needed that.
http://www.anybulb.com/
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| Message 19 |
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Subject: Re: Fw: pump operations
From: "Steve"
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 15:23:31 -0600
Hi Sam,
Thanks a lot for your time and your input. I'll try that. I cannot afford a
$400/mo elec bill, but it would just break my heart to lose all of my
beautiful babies.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sam Levy"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2000 11:08 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: pump operations
> steve,
>
> you've discovered that 3 hrs off at your current feeding rate is too long
an
> off time. try this: check DO, turn off pump, check DO every 10-15
minutes
> until it drops to 3 ppm, turn the pump on, check every 10-15 mins until
you
> reach the same level as before you shut down. repeat this procedure early
> morning, mid morning, early afternoon, late afternoon, early eveing,
night.
>
> you now have an idea of maximum off time and minimum on time for your
> current load. i would use 1/2 the off time and add 50 - 100% to the on
time
> as rough approximation--use the extremes.
>
> decide if the electricity savings are worth it to you. if yes, remember,
> you'll still have to monitor as your system load may change.
>
> oh yes, if your running in green water, check DO about an hour before
> sunrise.
>
> sam
>
>
> >From: "Steve"
> >
> >set for 5 hrs on & 3 hrs off...trying to conserve electricity. Well, I
> >conserved electricity and almost had 1,000 + dead fish...just caught it
in
> >time...had a DO of 2mg/ltr Steve
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
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| Message 20 |
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Subject: Re: Steve's DO problems, was Re: Fw: pump operations
From: "Steve"
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 15:42:08 -0600
Hi Paula,
Hope this gets through. I sometimes have problems with messages to
"aquaponics......."
Yes, I use an NFT System. I have 2 - 4" PVC with tomatos, 2 - 6" PVC with
tomatoes and Jalapeno peppers suspended above my tanks and another system on
a table with NFT flow and another 12 tomato plants. I also have about 15 +/-
water hyacinths in my settling tank. (Yes, I know the 4" is too small for
tomato's but this was my first venture so I decided to leave it alone...what
the heck.)
By the way, I know I am not a customer of yours, but I have tried to steer
one of my friends to your system. "If I had to do it all over again...." We
know how that goes.....
I'm going to close....because I don't know if this is going to get through
to you.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "S & S Aqua Farm"
To:
Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2000 6:36 AM
Subject: Steve's DO problems, was Re: Fw: pump operations
> At 10:13 PM 02/09/2000 -0600, you wrote:
> >Here is an interesting note on running your pump 24 hrs/day. I had my
pump
> >set for 5 hrs on & 3 hrs off...trying to conserve electricity. Well, I
> >conserved electricity and almost had 1,000 + dead fish...just caught it
in
> >time...had a DO of 2mg/ltr and they were all sucking air. Needless to
say, I
> >now have it running continuously. ALMOST KILLED ALL OF MY BABIES THAT I
> >WORKED SO HARD TO GET BIG!!
> >
> >Steve
>
> Steve - what overall design is your system? Are you pumping through an
NFT
> system?
>
> Paula
> S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO 65775 417-256-5124
> Web page http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
>
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| Message 21 |
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Subject: Re: Selective cooling. Was: The ideal business
From: Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 17:03:15 -0500
> Each bed would need to be fitted with the perforated tube but this is
> cheap. The tent and air supply (which could be a few large aquarium
> pumps as a low cost experiment) only need to be large enough to supply
> one bed, being moved about as required. A filter of some form at the air
> pump inlet(s) is obviously desirable.
> Just a suggestion. Anyone see any problems, better ways etc?
92 trays is a lot of tubing and it would quickly get fouled/plugged with
root matter. Ask Paula about 20-foot long tomato roots down her drain
piptes...Every time you cleared beds you would need to remove and clean
out the pipes (they don't make bottle brushes that long).
> One other suggestion (from my mother actually) is to put the seed into a
> sealed plastic bag of damp media and hold this at whatever the optimal
> germination temp is for your plants.
Yes, lettuce needs light to germinate. It's hard to broadcast damp seed
in larger quantities. I've done it with mache and it's a pain. OK for
home quantities, not for commercial.
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| Message 22 |
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Subject: Re: Fw: pump operations
From: "D.Bennett"
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 19:37:07 -0500
>> hydroponic systems I have ran the pump continuously for two years without
>> problems. The plants are fed from a slow flowing drip line constantly
and do
It is indeed turning "on and off" that both wears out pumps and consumes
the most electricity. Watch your meter flip when the pump kicks on.
I recall that in the plastics plant where I used to work, when they began to
dismantle and tear down a tank that had been pumped DRY 13 years
before, a pump was found still running!
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| Message 23 |
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Subject: Re: Selective cooling. Was: The ideal business
From: "Barry Thomas"
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 00:42:27 -0000
> > Each bed would need to be fitted with the perforated tube but this
is
> > cheap. The tent and air supply (which could be a few large aquarium
> > pumps as a low cost experiment) only need to be large enough to
supply
> > one bed, being moved about as required. A filter of some form at the
air
> > pump inlet(s) is obviously desirable.
> > Just a suggestion. Anyone see any problems, better ways etc?
> 92 trays is a lot of tubing
92 eh? That is quite a heap of tubing. However, as I said, it's cheap
(esp in these quantities) - certainly cheaper than rigging the whole lot
for misting.
> and it would quickly get fouled/plugged with root matter.
Possibly, yes - though I think this would depend on the size of the
holes in the tubing. Ideally, the air supply would be at a fairly high
pressure so you could use tube that was more porous than perforated. If
using a lower pressure supply and larger holes then one possible
work-around would be to feed the buried air tubes from the nutrient
inlet when not using air cooling - should prove discouraging to even the
most persistant of roots.
Barry
barrythomas@btinternet.com
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| Message 24 |
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Subject: Re: tinkering
From: "TGTX"
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 19:03:10 -0600
>
> Uh oh, Adrianna, that was like waving a red flag in front of a bull!
Tinkering is my
> *favorite* thing to do. I've been looking for a hobby that will provide
the maximum
> amount of tinkering pleasure, - it looks like this may be it. Thanks for
the info.
>
> Carolyn Hoalgand
>
In French, I guess a tinkerer would be a "bricaleur"...I like that
label...it comes from the same root as bric a brac, or knick knacks....
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| Message 25 |
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Subject: Feeding options --- manure!!!
From: "D.Bennett"
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 21:29:38 -0500
I really want to do an aquaculture/hydroponic greenhouse operation that
will help support me and mine, but was/am pretty ignorant of the same.
So...I bought a textbook on aquaculture. I'm thoroughly enjoying all I'm
learning!
On a chapter about Tilapia, the book talks of systems set up where animals
are housed in such a way that their manure goes directly into the water in
which tilapia are living. (I guess that puts a different twist on automatic
feeders!) It states that the practice is not very well accepted in the USA
:-) but that in some other countries it is a common practice. Has anyone
ever seen/experienced any fed-by-animal-manure methods of raising fish?
Please tell us about them.
Donna
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| Message 26 |
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Subject: Re: Feeding options --- manure!!!
From: atkindw@cwjamaica.com (david w atkinson)
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 22:16:14 -0800
On some farms in Africa they build the chicken coops over part of the ponds
so the chicken waste helps to 'fertilize' the pond. Creating greenwater
that has the nutrients that fish feed on. Others use rabbits, or even
both. Adding a twist is also to include ducks or geese.
The idea is that the waste provides nutrients for algae and other such
similar life forms that the fish feed on. It translates to savings on your
farm inputs. By this I mean, you already paid for the chicken feed and/or
the rabbit feed. Their waste which may normally be dumped becomes a 'free'
resource to feed the fish, thus reducing the real costs of buying feed for
them as they are fed 'naturally'.
So you see, the fish are not really eating the waste of the chicken or
rabbits. The animals mostly recommended to be used with the fish are those
that do not consume high protien, for instance, man. HUMAN WASTE IS
DEFINATELY A NO NO. :>)
Hope the above information helps you Donna. Others out there who are a bit
more technical than I on the matter can correct me in areas where I may be
wrong.
David A.
>From JAMAICA W.I.
(atkindw@cwjamaica.com)
At 09:29 PM 02/10/2000 -0500, you wrote:
> I really want to do an aquaculture/hydroponic greenhouse operation that
>will help support me snip ...,
snip .... tell us about them.
> Donna
>
>
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| Message 27 |
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Subject: Re: Feeding options --- manure!!!
From: Marc & Marcy
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 20:04:46 -0700
"D.Bennett" wrote:
>
> I really want to do an aquaculture/hydroponic greenhouse operation that
> will help support me and mine,
..snip..
It states that the practice is not very well accepted in
the USA
..snip..
The ABC TV show 20/20 a week ago got a lot of mileage
AGAINST the organic industry due to the assertion that
manure is full of salmonella and killer e-coli.
The organic industry is fighting back against the ABC
new show by asserting that certified organic sites must
compost their manure within strictly controlled time periods
such as 60 days before harvesting.
See: http://www.ota.com/ for details.
There have been bitterly fought battles on this, and other,
list servers over this subject. Some folks on the pro manure
side calling the pro-composting or anti manure folks
"fecophobic", people unsubscribing and personal e-mail
attacking other folks directly.
I say this to support my opinion that raw manure directly
used
without composting is a VERY controversial subject.
It could harshly impact on your sales considering the
current
political climate regarding manure and the war against it by
well backed people with expert credentials.
The use of fresh manure is even controversial within the
organic ranks with growers jumping on those who apply manure
that is
not composted as irresponsible and unhealthy even if they
are following accepted raw manure application procedures.
All things considered you could have a politically uphill
battle with
animal poop in the water.
Marc
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| Message 28 |
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Subject: Re: Feeding options --- manure!!!
From: CAVM
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 22:28:06 EST
Donna,
Since we are in the animal waste processing business we have looked into the
same thing you are asking about. I have not reached any conclusions about
using manure directly into the fish water as far as nutrient benefit. But we
have about decided that it has too many risks considering all the things that
can go wrong with fish even in clean water.
The manure can be used effectively to grow algae or duckweed, as has been
mentioned here before. This involves and additional tank and more labor but
may be a lot better option in long run. It can also be used as fertilizer in
a garden or farm that produces some of the feed ingredients for the fish, of
course.
Cornelius A. Van Milligen
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| Message 29 |
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Subject: Re: Feeding options --- manure!!!
From: mmiller@pcsia.com
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 23:08:55 -0600
I don't know about your area but here in Iowa manure slurry is sprayed
directly on the fields of the conventional farmer so manure addition is not
just an organic thing.
As per using manure to enhance pond fertility, just go to your local state
fish hatchery. I remember touring the state hatchery and they had wire
cages of horse manure in the ponds to provide nutrients for the small
animals that the bass fry lived on.
As for the safety of this method, consider the total living population in
those parts of the world that used chicken manure fertilized ponds and
compare it to that of the USA. If it were all that dangerous, they would
be dying like flies and not growing in numbers. Mike Miller
At 20:04 10-02-00 -0700, you wrote:
>
>
>"D.Bennett" wrote:
>>
>> I really want to do an aquaculture/hydroponic greenhouse operation that
>> will help support me and mine,
>..snip..
> It states that the practice is not very well accepted in
>the USA
>..snip..
>
>The ABC TV show 20/20 a week ago got a lot of mileage
>AGAINST the organic industry due to the assertion that
>manure is full of salmonella and killer e-coli.
>
>The organic industry is fighting back against the ABC
>new show by asserting that certified organic sites must
>compost their manure within strictly controlled time periods
>such as 60 days before harvesting.
>
>See: http://www.ota.com/ for details.
>
>There have been bitterly fought battles on this, and other,
>list servers over this subject. Some folks on the pro manure
>side calling the pro-composting or anti manure folks
>"fecophobic", people unsubscribing and personal e-mail
>attacking other folks directly.
>
>I say this to support my opinion that raw manure directly
>used
>without composting is a VERY controversial subject.
>
>It could harshly impact on your sales considering the
>current
>political climate regarding manure and the war against it by
>well backed people with expert credentials.
>
>The use of fresh manure is even controversial within the
>organic ranks with growers jumping on those who apply manure
>that is
>not composted as irresponsible and unhealthy even if they
>are following accepted raw manure application procedures.
>
>All things considered you could have a politically uphill
>battle with
>animal poop in the water.
>
>Marc
>
|
