Aquaponics Digest - Mon 02/14/00
Message 1: Aquaponics - Light Reqmnts
from Bill
Message 2: Re: Aquaponics
from Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Message 3: System discussion, was Re: Introduction and questions
from S & S Aqua Farm
Message 4: Contacts, was Re: Aquaponics
from S & S Aqua Farm
Message 5: Re: Introduction and questions
from "Sam Levy"
Message 6: Re: dead fish
from "Sam Levy"
Message 7: Re: System discussion, was Re: Introduction and questions
from "Sam Levy"
Message 8: A murder mystery
from wills/nachreiner
Message 9: Re: Question on S&S System
from "Jay Myers"
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| Message 1 |
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Subject: Aquaponics - Light Reqmnts
From: Bill
Date: 13 Feb 00 23:54:20 PST
<< Does anybody know how much and what kind of light tomatoes (and other
produce-especially cucumbers) need in mid-winter? >>
> I have had good luck growing loads of cukes in Buffalo - Rochester wint=
ers. =
We have a student run 10' x 25' area with 4 - 400watt high pressure sodiu=
m
lamps. Plants are trellised on 2' centers (2 plants
per wire) with the lamps 5' above soil level.
--------
* I have seen one hydroponics site that (wanted to sell lights and) sugge=
sted
1000Watts of halide/sodium per 8x8 area. Somehow I
have 10x10 also stuck in my brain and probably wanted to
stretch their recommendation by planting lower light veggies,
such as lettuce, on the perifery. The numbers (esp considering
their desire to sell may influence the numbers, or better
growth occurs that way...) essentially correspond.
They also suggested a certain light if one was to be afforded,
and both if to be used, then in a in sequence (which escapes me)
for best initial growth, then fruit growth, usable in the same
fixture. This stuff was not cheap.
And if you are at a dime per Kw Hr (and I am at 50% more)
the cost is a buck a day for 10 hours. 8 hrs being
considered a tomato minimum, I believe. So 30-45$ per
month at 10 Hrs,... $48-72 for 16 Hrs.
Side bennie, with a fan you may fine for heat, and have
sufficient in built heat which tomatoes appreciate somewhat,
requiring 50F for blossom set, as best I recall.
I have been sidetracked, so am trying to pick up all the
misc for a small family system, knowledge being first.
I only have refridgerated seawater aquarium and home
system building experience, along w/some engineering
in related and unrelated fields and am a gardener.
I use www.37.com for most info searching.
Interesting. Please keep use advised.
I will learn from others answering your queries.
Bill
San'fogcisco Bay Area, Ca.
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Subject: Re: Aquaponics
From: Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 07:25:07 -0500
> > If you're interested I can try to get you contact names and phone numbers.
> I'd please like to have that info.
OK here goes, the email addresses are 18 months old so cross your
fingers...
1. Marten R. Jenkens, The Freshwater Institute, Shepherdstown, WV
304-876-3410
email: jenkin10@ix.netcom.com
Be sure to ask about project they funded in Tallmansville WV.
It was built to Paula and Tom's specifications.
2. Carol Webb, Mineral County Vo-Tech Center, Keyser WV
304-788-4240
email: cewebb@access.k12.wv.us
3. Paul Adler, USDA-ARS, Kearneysville WV
(sorry can't locate #'s for them)
Adriana
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Subject: System discussion, was Re: Introduction and questions
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 07:15:31 -0600
At 06:40 AM 02/13/2000 -0800, Ryon wrote:
> Now the questions-
> If Tilapia can gulp air at the surface, why did David's fish die in
>less than 9 hours? Did the tank have too little surface area for the fish
>to "gulp," or is there a limit to how long they can do this, or is something
>else at work?
Ryon, I checked through the responses to the original post, and although
lots of good suggestions were made for back-up systems, I don't think there
ever was sufficient system information given to determine the "why". What
he said was:
>fed fish this morning at 530 am, went to work, came home at 3 to find
>that a ground fault breaker had tripped this morning at 6 am! lost
>every one of my talapia.
> Can anyone help with a suggestion on a battery type backup for my air
>stones?
So all we know is that he's running a system dependent on air stones, the
tank might have had excess feed in addition to being at the specific time
when fish waste in the water would have been high. Overall water quality
(including the state of the air stone) and fish density are probably
contributing factors also. Even tilapia have limitations for how long
surface air can sustain them, I believe.
> How do you get the process started? How big do the fry have to be
>before thay will support a bed of germinated seeds, and until you have
>growing plants, how do you keep the fish water clean?
This is sometimes a difficult phase, requiring regular monitoring, but since
it's generally coincides with the "beginning and learning phase", you should
be watching closely anyway. This also is varies with the type of system
you're using. The fish will immediately start producing nutrients, as long
as you feed them (:>). In order to have an effective amount of plant growth
and healthy bacterial colonies, some choose to kick-start their systems with
the addition of fish emulsion until the nutrient amount is sufficient alone.
Then again, it depends on the number of fish, size of bed, etc. With small
fish, you can maintain your tank water level low enough to support them and
concentrating the nutrients they provide to the plant beds, then increase
the fish tank water level as needed.
> Presumably a continuous small-volume pump irrigating the growing beds
>is as effective as the "batch" process where the beds are watered every so
>often?
I'd like to hear others comments on this. What kind of oxygen
supplementation do you have to provide to make this viable, if any? Does
this make blowers a necessary part of the operation?
Paula
S&S Aqua Farm, http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
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Subject: Contacts, was Re: Aquaponics
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 08:09:10 -0600
At 07:25 AM 02/14/2000 -0500, Adriana wrote:
>
>> > If you're interested I can try to get you contact names and phone numbers.
>> I'd please like to have that info.
>
>OK here goes, the email addresses are 18 months old so cross your
>fingers...
>
>1. Marten R. Jenkens, The Freshwater Institute, Shepherdstown, WV
> 304-876-3410
> email: jenkin10@ix.netcom.com
> Be sure to ask about project they funded in Tallmansville WV.
> It was built to Paula and Tom's specifications.
"Marten Jenkins" is the address from
which he's subscribed to this list in digest form. I'd be interested also
in his description of the system "built to Paula and Tom's specifications",
as we understood from others who had been there that extensive changes were
made.
>2. Carol Webb, Mineral County Vo-Tech Center, Keyser WV
> 304-788-4240
> email: cewebb@access.k12.wv.us
>
>3. Paul Adler, USDA-ARS, Kearneysville WV
> (sorry can't locate #'s for them)
"Paul Robert Adler" is the digest address we show.
His sig line from some correspondence we have reads:
Paul R. Adler, Ph.D.
USDA-ARS
45 Wiltshire Road
Kearneysville, WV 25430 USA
"Paul Robert Adler"
Web site http://afrsweb.usda.gov
voice 304.725.3451 x352
fax 304.728.2340
Hope this helps.
Paula
S&S Aqua Farm, http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
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Subject: Re: Introduction and questions
From: "Sam Levy"
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 11:26:34 PST
ryon-
although tilapia (and many other species of fish) wil "pipe" at the surface
when short of oxygen in the water, most species--tilpia included-are
notreally equipped to take in atmospheric oxygen (notable exceptions being
the anabantoids and clarias catfish). what the fish are doing at the
surface is pumping the upper film of the water across their gills.
sam
>From: Ryon Lucke
> If Tilapia can gulp air at the surface, why did David's fish die in
>less than 9 hours? Did the tank have too little surface area for the fish
>to "gulp," or is there a limit to how long they can do this, or is
>something
>else at work?
>
>
> Ryon Lucke
>
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________________
>Get 100% FREE Internet Access powered by Excite
>Visit http://freeworld.excite.com
>
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Subject: Re: dead fish
From: "Sam Levy"
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 11:45:33 PST
>From: dreadlox@cwjamaica.com (michael kent barnett)
>
>
>someone
>should also check regularly to see to it that the gas bottles are full.
>This method in a way has the drawback as opposed to the 12v pumps or
>blowers that a bottle empty is just that!! While he blowers always have
>a ready supply of air..unless it jams. person who was supposed to check the
>bottles... in love......
>Another simple method is using a pressure switch to check the status of
>filled bottles, and tripping when the pressure in the bottlesd reaches a
>particular level.
mike-
nice to hear from you again. i was using o2 bottles on a quarantine unit of
6 tanks (5 cu m each) that was situated separate from the main farm (and
used only for a short time each year. two bottles represented about 30-36
hrs of use & we always kept at least one full one around--the salient
feature being not the numbe of tanks but the number of hours they can
maintain the system. also, there was an onsight presence 24 hrs a day and
this unit was checked at least once every three hours.
i opted for oxygen as we were working with dilute seawater which has a much
lower capacity for holding oxygen than fresh water. we used a blower in
conjuction with water exchanges--but if the electricity failed there was no
pump. also, the blower noise could be heard quite far off & i didn't want
to teach the guard staff the difference between this noise & that.
by the way, by adjusting the pressure at the o2 tank outlet & using check
valves, you can empty the tanks in serial order.
sam
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Subject: Re: System discussion, was Re: Introduction and questions
From: "Sam Levy"
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 12:13:54 PST
>From: S & S Aqua Farm
>
>What kind of oxygen
>supplementation do you have to provide to make this viable, if any? Does
>this make blowers a necessary part of the operation?
>
>Paula
>S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO 65775 417-256-5124
>Web page http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
>
the only requirement in terms of oxygen is that it be present in sufficient
quantities for the fish to metabolize its food & grow. although tilapia are
quite tolerant of low oxygen (i belive they can tolerate 2 ppm for short
exposures), every effort should be made to never drop below 3 ppm
and--although my direct experience w/ tilapia is limited, i would try to
keep the minimum tank DO in the 4-5 ppm range & higher the rest of the time.
the fish can re-adjust (within limits) its metabolism to accomadate lower DO
levels it does so at a price & that price, in one way or another will be
"paid" by the culturalist in extra food purchases and longer growing time to
reach target weight--even if ther ar no mortalities.
techniques include using a pump to create turbulence
blowers w/airstone and/or airlifts
mechanical in-tank agitators
pure oxygen and an appropriate contact chamber (oxygen is generally too
expensive to use with diffusers exceapt under special circumstances such as
back up in event of system failures)
all of the above can provide oxygen to the fish--but not all of them will be
appropriate in every situation or for every species of fish (some require
higher DO levels than others)
selection of the appropriate technology will depend on the level of
intensity the system will operate under, initial cost, operating cost,
compatibility with other components and personal preference.
it seems to me that aquatic-eco used to publish some comparison charts which
may be of interest here
sam
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Subject: A murder mystery
From: wills/nachreiner
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 16:00:33 -0600
Well the subject title should get attention anyway.
Here's the skinny. We are growing mussels in the living machine to 1. see
if we can propogate them and 2. help clean water. Background. Midwest
mussels were over harvested for buttons and then because they made great
seed for Japanese cultured pearls. Then they became victims of pollution.
So today many varieties are endangered. Bivalves are great water cleaners.
They require fish to host their larvae, so we have provided that. But the
living machine has become a breeding place for drain flies. We want to
kill the drain flies without adding chemicals that will damage the plants
or microbes. They seem to not have attraction to light or heat sources, at
least not enough to reduce their numbers. And we can't keep enough frogs
around to do the trick. So we were advised to try bT. The fish seem
unbothered but the mussels went into bad spasms. We saved some by getting
them into fresh water quickly, but not all survived.
Whats the deal? Anyone know about bt being bad for shellfish? Does this
have implications for treating organic crops or for the transgenic Bt corn?
Could anything else be going on?
Anyone have a different fly control method that might have less of a downside?
Bob
Box185 Plain,Wi 53577
(608) 546-2712
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Subject: Re: Question on S&S System
From: "Jay Myers"
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 21:10:05 -0600
Paula -
I've been looking at my system in detail, and I think Adriana's observation
may have merit. The ladder, with it's holes, seems to get any greens, etc.
that come in contact with it nasty due to the water, and I've been wondering
for days now is I could just put the water in at one end. I'm going to try
it on one bed and see how it goes.
Have you ever tried it?
Jay
Panama City Beach, Fl.
-
>
>> We use 1" PVC in a ladder-like arrangement. This grid, when level,
>> distributes the nutrient-laden water evenly over the surface of the bed,
and
>> provides good nutrient balance, we believe.
>
>I've seen an S & S type system in W Virginia which had been modified to
>a single inlet on one end and drain on the other (with flow control
>valve outside the bed on the drain side) and it worked just fine. There
>were fewer pipes to get in the way, unplug, etc.
>
>Adriana
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