Aquaponics Digest - Thu 02/24/00
Message 1: Damn!!
from "Steve"
Message 2: Re: Lettuce, type??
from "TGTX"
Message 3: Re: Mizuna and tatsoi
from "TGTX"
Message 4: Re: How do I get started
from S & S Aqua Farm
Message 5: Re: Damn!!
from Sojourner
Message 6: Unsubscribe
from T Leischner
Message 7: Re: Feeding options --- manure!!!
from mmiller@pcsia.com
Message 8: Re: Feeding options --- manure!!!
from "Barry Thomas"
Message 9: Re: Mizuna and tatsoi
from Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Message 10: Re: Damn!!
from "Sam Levy"
Message 11: Re: Damn!!
from Ryon Lucke
Message 12: Re: Damn!!
from djhanson@calweb.com
Message 13: Re: Feeding options --- manure!!!
from mmiller@pcsia.com
Message 14: Re: Mizuna and tatsoi
from "TGTX"
Message 15: re.: trout
from laberge@cil.qc.ca (LABERGE MARC)
Message 16: Re: THANKS!! (Re: Lettuce)
from Sunpeer
Message 17: Re: Lettuce, type??
from "beacnhrt"
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Subject: Damn!!
From: "Steve"
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 01:46:54 -0600
This is probably going to be the most unprofessional post that I will ever
do.
I'm just really "bummed"!
I just finished cleaning my tanks and for no reason whatsoever, that I know
of, everyone of my babies DIED! (Almost 400 of them!!)
I mean, this is not the first time that I have cleaned tanks. I started
noticeing a few floaters and then a whole bunch of floaters and then
everyone was acting erratically in both 10-gal's...and then shortly after
that...they were all DEAD! I'm suppose to know what I am doing with this,
but this baffles me. Yes, the temp was o.k.
Sorry, I'm just "venting". I'm really sad about this. I go to a lot of
trouble with these guys!!!
I have to vent to someone and no one else would understand.
Sorry, for this!! but....DAMN!!
Steve
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Subject: Re: Lettuce, type??
From: "TGTX"
Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 19:43:00 -0600
Jim R. wrote:
> I would not use any chloride compounds. Rather use KOH to neutralize acid
> produced in the nitrification process. We alternate KOH with Ca(OH)2 and
> our K levels average about 100 mg/L. Jim R.
>
Gotcha. The KCL will increase salinity rapidly over time vs. KOH if you
continually add it without water exchange.
I don't know if Steve is dumping his water every few weeks or months or not,
but yes, KCl or any chloride salt will build up your EC/ TDS pretty
fast...maybe faster than you want
Ted
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Subject: Re: Mizuna and tatsoi
From: "TGTX"
Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 20:01:47 -0600
> Ted,
> What do you find to be good substitutes for the mizuna and tatsoi during
> warm weather? Those aphids can be tenacious. I won't grow komatsuna
> ANY time of year because they like it too much.
>
> Adriana
Yeah, I hear ya. Been there...yada, yada.....
Well, this is not an easy question. I REALLY like tat-soi, personally. I
just love the heck out of it in my own diet. I can layer it with Sauteed
Portobello mushrooms, juicy home grown beef steak tomatos, and aquaponic
basil, in a sandwich slathered with New Canaan Farm's Texas Pride Honey
Mustard, a big slice of BBQ-roasted Texas A&M 1015 Sweet Onion , all on top
of toasted home made bread slices, and I am in Hog Heaven.
But, Since we are talking about a salad mix with a minor component being
substituted, maybe..........Hmmm.....you might try summer-hardy spinach,
which is not a good substitute by any means, and which has its' own pest
problems, but, give it a try. Also, how about that "Coleus-leaf" amaranth
that gives some color and pattern to the mix? If you close your eyes and
eat one raw, it tastes like a fresh Kentucky Wonder bean pod just off of the
vine....sort of...... And of course I have tried Orach, which is also
great, and a relative of the spinach group, but it does not produce as much
per square foot as you would like...try it, but dont take up TOO much of
your grow bed space for these substitutes, is not worth it.
Just a LITTLE BIT of variety makes the mix interesting...We're talking art
and bidnezz here...
Ted
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Subject: Re: How do I get started
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 06:36:02 -0600
At 09:22 AM 02/23/2000 -0600, Dave wrote:
>How do I get started
>
>New to the loop
>
>Dave
Dave - it would help the group to help you if we have some idea of where
you're "starting from". You'll find the list is a great resource, with
expertise in many different areas, but it's easier to answer specific
questions as opposed to general ones.
How about giving us some background on yourself and what you're currently
doing and/or what you hope to do with your aquaponics system?
Paula
S&S Aqua Farm, http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
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Subject: Re: Damn!!
From: Sojourner
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 06:52:49 -0600
Steve wrote:
>
> I just finished cleaning my tanks and for no reason whatsoever, that I know
> of, everyone of my babies DIED! (Almost 400 of them!!)
>
> I mean, this is not the first time that I have cleaned tanks. I started
> noticeing a few floaters and then a whole bunch of floaters and then
> everyone was acting erratically in both 10-gal's...and then shortly after
> that...they were all DEAD!
I don't know what sort of fish you had in those 10 gallon tanks, but
typically its very hard (read nigh unto impossible) to maintain water
quality in a tank that small. At 200 of whatever they were per 10
gallon tank, it sounds like the tank was seriously overstocked.
I'm an aquaculture dummy, but I used to keep aquariums. When I went to
a 55 gallon tank I was amazed at how much easier it was to take care of
my fish, how seldom I had health problems, etc.
Even if they were very small fry, 200 per tank sounds like way too many
for that size tank. Even if you were changing out half the water every
day it wouldn't take long for fish waste to build up to toxic quantities
with that many fish in that small a tank. Not too mention wastage from
uneaten food. You don't specifically say how often you were doing your
water changes but I didn't get the impression it was daily.
I've forgotten the exact stocking rates for that size tank, but its
something like one or two SMALL goldfish or (not AND, but OR) 10 or so
neon tetras. I quit using mine for anything but Bettas - one male, one
or two (at most) females, in a 10 gallon tank.
--
Holly ;-D
Contrary Peasant
sojournr@missouri.org
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Subject: Unsubscribe
From: T Leischner
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 06:09:54 -0800
Unsubscribe
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Subject: Re: Feeding options --- manure!!!
From: mmiller@pcsia.com
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 08:46:33 -0600
FYI from http://ens.lycos.com/ens/feb2000/2000L-02-23-09.html. The ever
useful tilapia. Mike Miller
USING FISH TO CLEAN UP SEWAGE
FORT WORTH, Texas, February 23, 2000 (ENS) - A few tankfuls of fish could
put a stop to the devastating blooms of algae caused when sewage works
discharge effluent into rivers and lakes, say researchers at the Texas
Christian University in Fort Worth. Most sewage works remove solids from
raw sewage and get rid of organic matter with the help of sludge dwelling
bacteria. But few remove dissolved phosphorus and nitrogen from detergents
and fertilizers. When too much of these nutrients get into fresh water,
they can trigger explosive growths of algae. All the oxygen in the water is
used up when the algae decompose, suffocating aquatic life. Some blooms
also generate dangerous toxins.
Ray Drenner, a biologist at Texas Christian, has developed a waste water
purification system in which algae consume these polluting nutrients before
the water is discharged. Fish then nibble away at the algae, incorporating
the nutrients into their bodies or excreting them. Their wastes sink to the
bottom of the tank for regular collection and disposal. In Drenner's
system, which he developed with Laura Rectenwald of Baylor University in
Waco, the outflow from a sewage treatment works passes through a series of
tanks containing an algae eating African fish called Tilapia mossambica.
The tanks are fitted with vertical plastic screens on which periphyton
algae, which thrive on nitrogen and phosphorus, grow. "The fish spend the
whole day grazing the screens, cropping them almost to a fine velvety
layer," says Drenner. The layer of algae constantly regrows. The system
works only after sewage has undergone conventional treatment, Drenner said
in a report by "New Scientist."
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Subject: Re: Feeding options --- manure!!!
From: "Barry Thomas"
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 15:22:58 -0000
> the outflow from a sewage treatment works passes
> through a series of tanks containing an algae eating
> African fish called Tilapia mossambica. The tanks
> are fitted with vertical plastic screens on which periphyton
> algae, which thrive on nitrogen and phosphorus, grow.
Very interesting but why add the fish? Would seem better all round to
just remove the algae from the screens (or whatever method is used to
grow it). What did I miss - they surely don't intend the fish for
consumption?
Barry
barrythomas@btinternet.com
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Subject: Re: Mizuna and tatsoi
From: Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 10:41:58 -0500
> > What do you find to be good substitutes for the mizuna and tatsoi during
> > warm weather?
> Well, this is not an easy question. I REALLY like tat-soi, personally.
Have you tried Johnny's Yukina Savoy? It's even better than tatsoi,
bigger, deeper green, savoyed leaves and faster growth.
>Also, how about that "Coleus-leaf" amaranth
> that gives some color and pattern to the mix? And of course I have tried Orach, which is
also great, and a relative of the spinach group
I found orach to be a real light-weight and harvesting was a pain
because of the distribution of leaves on the stems. I'm just doing a
trial with amaranth now.
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Subject: Re: Damn!!
From: "Sam Levy"
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 08:16:03 PST
>I just finished cleaning my tanks and for no reason whatsoever, that I know
>of, everyone of my babies DIED! (Almost 400 of them!!)
>
>I mean, this is not the first time that I have cleaned tanks. I started
>noticeing a few floaters and then a whole bunch of floaters and then
>everyone was acting erratically in both 10-gal's...and then shortly after
>that...they were all DEAD!
>
>Steve
>
steve,
the important thing about a major disaster is to learn from it--i've had my
share of major screw ups & every fish farmer i know has as well--so you can
prevent it in the future.
a few thoughts:
did you stir up a lot of settled material off the bottom of the tanks?
(if yes, you may have inadvertantly released h2s--product of anaerobic
repiration--into the water and, yes, it can kill pretty fast if there's
enough there)
what did you clean with--what tools--could there have been a coating of
liquid soap or bleach or oil?
have there been recent changes in your water parameters lately?
were you running fresh water into the tank ? if yes, from what source? if
a municipal source you could have chlorinated water--all municipal sources
should be assumed chlorinated & treated as such.
is your water pumped? if you are doing the pumping, check for any leaks on
the intake side--supersaturated water can stress them out pretty fast (& you
might have noticed them 'pop-eyed'). if it's somebady else's pump, you may
have to treat all intake water to eliminate excess gasses.
& while we're at it, did you happen to examine your morts (or send them off)
for teh identification of pathogens. most pathogenic agents don't act as
quick as you describe them--but some do.
hope this helps,
sam
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Subject: Re: Damn!!
From: Ryon Lucke
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 08:26:06 -0800 (PST)
"supersaturated water"
>
supersaturated water- what's that? Too much oxygen?
_______________________________________________________
Get 100% FREE Internet Access powered by Excite
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Subject: Re: Damn!!
From: djhanson@calweb.com
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 08:28:28 -0800
> have there been recent changes in your water parameters lately?
I know we aren't keeping the same type of fish as most of you on this
list. We keep and breed tropicals.
My reason for responding to this message is from experience. Last year
we moved only 2 miles from where we used to live. We had over 2500
gallons of water. This was in a bit over 80 fish tanks. Twenty four
hours after setting up all the fish in the house we lost over 75%.
Mainly breeders. This was a horrific set back for us.
It turned out that we had just crossed over the 'line' we ended up with
well water where the district added lots of salts, chlorine etc. to our
new water which our fish were not accustomed to. Even though we had hard
water fish, they were the first to go. This water was much harder than
the other.
I am still very spooked about doing water changes since there is so much
gaseous bubbles in the water system. (We pour water into a glass jar and
it is cloudy until the bubbles dissapate.) I have to do more frequent
smaller water changes because of this problem.
Also, having over 200 fish in a 10 gallon tank is just asking for
problems. The rule of thumb in our hobby is allowing 2" of air surface
per fish. I know I don't adhere to this myself, but I do more water
changes than normally.
I don't know if this info helps any but I felt I had to reply just the
same.
Kaycy
http://www.calweb.com/users/d/djhanson/index.htm
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| Message 13 |
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Subject: Re: Feeding options --- manure!!!
From: mmiller@pcsia.com
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 11:18:31 -0600
I don't know what they intend to do with them but I suspect the tilapia
would live for quite a few years before dying - big lunker tilapia.
You know after the post a long time ago about tilapia being fished out of
golf course ponds in some states and sold on the open market, I'm not sure
which is more dangerous. At least bacteria could be killed by cooking but
pesticides et al. are there for the long haul.
Then again, the pesticides and heavy metal in sewage sludge would not doubt
also be present in the sewage effluent, so I would say, toxic waste
disposal site. At least with this technology, we slow down the growth of
the dead zone in the Gulf of Mexico. Mike Miller
At 15:22 24-02-00 -0000, you wrote:
>> the outflow from a sewage treatment works passes
>> through a series of tanks containing an algae eating
>> African fish called Tilapia mossambica. The tanks
>> are fitted with vertical plastic screens on which periphyton
>> algae, which thrive on nitrogen and phosphorus, grow.
>
>Very interesting but why add the fish? Would seem better all round to
>just remove the algae from the screens (or whatever method is used to
>grow it). What did I miss - they surely don't intend the fish for
>consumption?
>
>Barry
>barrythomas@btinternet.com
>
>
>
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Subject: Re: Mizuna and tatsoi
From: "TGTX"
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 19:36:14 -0600
> I found orach to be a real light-weight and harvesting was a pain
> because of the distribution of leaves on the stems. I'm just doing a
> trial with amaranth now.
>
Yes, Orach is too thin...harder to harvest and so forth...I agree.
But, it can add a little to the mix and it is nice in appearance...but I
finally eliminated it. Coleus Amaranth was good in a little corner because
I let the plants get big and I could just keep harvesting from the big
plants....It was less than 1% of the mix, but it made a nice touch for
specialty mixes....
Same problem with the Amaranth as the Orach, clipping each leaf and
preserving the big plant for re-growth....see?
Ted
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Subject: re.: trout
From: laberge@cil.qc.ca (LABERGE MARC)
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 21:29:34 -0500
Attie, I know what you mean about self funding small projects...I've
invested quite a bit myself but am loving the experience. This group has
saved me a lot of money also and I am grateful to all in it.
I can not comment on your project...I just don't have enough knowledge on
the matter.
I've placed all my plants in clay media and am grateful to Adriana for her
input , also the cornell website is really great for beginners like myself.
I'm thinking of changing lettuce types to buttercrunch and white boston.
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Subject: Re: THANKS!! (Re: Lettuce)
From: Sunpeer
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 22:48:55 EST
One more variety to add to your list. My best performer is Salina....fast
growth, rich green color , never bitter, and seems to tolerate a wide range
of production blunders ( we grow in a Voc Ed setting).
Monte
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Subject: Re: Lettuce, type??
From: "beacnhrt"
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 23:49:01 -0600
Thanks for mentioning that this site is tempermental. I have tried it
several times with no luck.
----- Original Message -----
From: Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
To:
Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2000 7:05 PM
Subject: Re: Lettuce, type??
>
> > I can't get this site!?!! Is it me or the link?
>
> > > Cornell has a superb web site on lettuce production. Check it out at
> > > http://www.cals.cornell.edu/dept/flori/lettuce/
>
> Dave,
> It's temperamental, keep trying.
>
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