Aquaponics Digest - Sat 02/26/00
Message 1: Re: tilapia in Canada
from Joy Pye-MacSwain
Message 2: Re: Quantification of Tiny Bubbles - DO
from S & S Aqua Farm
Message 3: Re: Quantification of tiny bubbles - DO
from Joy Pye-MacSwain
Message 4: Re: tilapia in Canada
from Mike Price
Message 5: Re: Quantification of tiny bubbles - DO
from "Barry Thomas"
Message 6: Re: Quantification of tiny bubbles - DO
from "Barry Thomas"
Message 7: How to kill/stun fish?
from Brian Gracia
Message 8: Re: Quantification of tiny bubbles - DO
from John Hays
Message 9: Ceramic Coating "Insulation"
from "TGTX"
Message 10: Data
from Raul Vergueiro Martins
Message 11: Re: How to kill/stun fish?
from Sojourner
Message 12: Re: Ceramic Coating "Insulation"
from William Evans
Message 13: Re: How to kill/stun fish?
from Bertmcl
Message 14: Re: How to kill/stun fish?
from "Sam Levy"
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| Message 1 |
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Subject: Re: tilapia in Canada
From: Joy Pye-MacSwain
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 09:05:30 -0400
Morning Mike.....
>
>
> Hi, My name is Mike Price, and I live in El Paso, Texas. It sounds like your operation
> is going great!
Thank you. We are not doing badly considering the length of time that we have been in
operation.
>
>
> I was curious where you are located, as I am trying to find an S & S operation that I
> could visit.
Anytime in you are our area.... please come on over.... I would love to show you around.
Joy
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Subject: Re: Quantification of Tiny Bubbles - DO
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 07:22:39 -0600
At 11:27 AM 02/25/2000 -0500, Lloyd wrote:
>At risk of posing a foolish question, I've wondered for some time if one
could maintain
>minimum acceptable DO by enclosing water plants in a cage that floated or
rested in the fish
>tank?
>
>By selecting plants that the fish like to eat, the fish would consume any
shoots that escape
>from the cage. I understand that this would consume precious tank space,
and perhaps reduce
>the nutrients available for revenue-producing crops but, if it worked, I'm
wondering if the
>insurance value against losing fish might be worth it.
Lloyd, we've not grown plants in this way, but we have attempted to "double
use" a tank for adults and fry by placing fry in a cage in the center of the
tank. Besides the (apparently) obvious problems of "loss by consumption" by
the adults, we did find marked decreases in water quality from the
obstruction of the cage. In our round tanks, the solids settle and are
picked up by the pump. With the cage, we lost some of this action.
Even though it was intended as a temporary measure, we wouldn't use it again.
Paula
S&S Aqua Farm, http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
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Subject: Re: Quantification of tiny bubbles - DO
From: Joy Pye-MacSwain
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 09:28:38 -0400
Morning Emmet....
>
> say that I'm ordering fish next week. I'm running the system to establish
> my bacteria and get the plants established. I have a Hach aquaculture
> testing kit. At 1 P.M. today my DO was 9 mg/L.
> >From the other node sump the water is returned by a 1 1/4 inch pipe stepped
> up to a 3 inch pipe. This pipe is capped. The cap has 37 quarter inch holes
> in it. When it goes off it startles people. Water is shot in at a 45
> degree angle with enough force that it appears to go at least a foot below
> the surface. The bubbles trail out about four feet. This tank too is
> swirled in a clockwise direction. At about 1:15 P.M. today the DO was 12 mg/L.
One comment, if you don't mind...... you said that you are ordering fish. Are you
planning on adding them into these tanks directly or do you have a separate system
for them to grow a bit before adding them into the system you have been
describing? The reason I ask this is that if you are adding fish of less than 20
g into this system with a water return as powerful as you describe then you are
likely to loss upwards for 20 fish per day per tank. When we first started up we
had a water return which had a force similar to what you have described, then
added our fish at 10 g and started losing fish! That much force hitting the
little guys as they are swimming by rams them to the bottom of the tank and they
die from internal bleeding, damaged gills, broken spines .. you get the picture.
After me doing 2 days worth of post mortums and 100 lost fish, we decided to add
microfliter bags fastened onto the ends of return flow pipes. This slowed the
force with which the water hit the system, still gave us aeration and we lost no
more fish. When the babies reached an average size of 18 g we removed the
microfilter bags and to this day the babies do well with that much force.. in fact
they usually play in it....:) :) :) You do not have to use microfilter bags to
get this same gentling of the return flow water... angle in cap so that much of
the force hits the side of the tank and has to fall down the side for a short
distance before actually hitting the water. That should gentle the water enough
so that you won't lose you babies. As for DO, yes this will mean lower DO in the
tank but the babies, unless you are planning an inordinately high stocking density
in the tank and you have lots of surface area for them to go to the top, Tilapia
will easily tolerate as DO as low as 5 mg/L for quite considerable periods of
time.
Anyway I hope this helps.... good luck
Joy Pye-MacSwain
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| Message 4 |
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Subject: Re: tilapia in Canada
From: Mike Price
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 10:11:19 -0700
Joy,
Thanks for the reply, but where are you?
Mike
Joy Pye-MacSwain wrote:
> Morning Mike.....
>
> >
> >
> > Hi, My name is Mike Price, and I live in El Paso, Texas. It sounds like your operation
> > is going great!
>
> Thank you. We are not doing badly considering the length of time that we have been in
> operation.
>
> >
> >
> > I was curious where you are located, as I am trying to find an S & S operation that I
> > could visit.
>
> Anytime in you are our area.... please come on over.... I would love to show you around.
>
> Joy
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| Message 5 |
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Subject: Re: Quantification of tiny bubbles - DO
From: "Barry Thomas"
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 18:18:06 -0000
I seem to be having some trouble with my email. I sent this a while ago
but it didn't seem to work. Trying again, apologies if you get this
twice.
> > From the other node sump the water is returned by
> > a 1 1/4 inch pipe stepped up to a 3 inch pipe. This
> > pipe is capped. The cap has 37 quarter inch holes
> > in it.
> > Water is shot in at a 45 degree angle with enough
> > force that it appears to go at least a foot below
> > the surface.
> The reason I ask this is that if you are adding fish of
> less than 20g into this system with a water return as
> powerful as you describe then you are likely to loss
> upwards for 20 fish per day per tank.
Thanks both for the valuable info.
As you probably know, I don't have fish yet (or a DO meter) but one
thing I was thinking of trying was to vertically mount a length of tube
so that it's lower end was a few inches above the bottom of the tank and
it's upper sticking around a foot or so above the water surface. A
number of holes are drilled in the above water section and the spray
head is directed into the open end of the tube.
Why do this? So that the filtered, aerated water is transferred to the
bottom of the tank rather than forming a 'raft' near the surface. How
much of a difference this would make, I don't know but it's easy enough
to try and should help with the problems Joy mentions (could add some
kind of filter sock to the lower end of the tube if the flow is
insufficient to deter small fish from entering).
Taking the basic idea slightly further, a length of more flexible tube
could be formed into a circle (approx half tank radius for sake of
description) with a number of outlets spaced around it (all facing in
the same direction - clockwise say). If the lower end of the vertical
pipe is capped and a feed taken from it to the circular tube, the water
in the tank should slowly rotate and (if the outlets are directed
slightly downwards) should keep solids in suspension and so more likely
to be transferred to the grow beds.
Paula's last post has got me slightly worried as to whether this is
actually the right thing to do though.
Sorry to write at such length about something I haven't tried but
thought it worth mentioning for those with time and equipment to try it.
Of course, if someone has already tried this or similar...
Barry
barrythomas@btinternet.com
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| Message 6 |
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Subject: Re: Quantification of tiny bubbles - DO
From: "Barry Thomas"
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 17:36:17 -0000
> > From the other node sump the water is returned by
> > a 1 1/4 inch pipe stepped up to a 3 inch pipe. This
> > pipe is capped. The cap has 37 quarter inch holes
> > in it.
> > Water is shot in at a 45 degree angle with enough
> > force that it appears to go at least a foot below
> > the surface.
> The reason I ask this is that if you are adding fish of
> less than 20g into this system with a water return as
> powerful as you describe then you are likely to loss
> upwards for 20 fish per day per tank.
Thanks both for the valuable info.
As you probably know, I don't have fish yet (or a DO meter) but one
thing I was thinking of trying was to vertically mount a length of tube
so that it's lower end was a few inches above the bottom of the tank and
it's upper sticking around a foot or so above the water surface. A
number of holes are drilled in the above water section and the spray
head is directed into the open end of the tube.
Why do this? So that the filtered, aerated water is transferred to the
bottom of the tank rather than forming a 'raft' near the surface. How
much of a difference this would make, I don't know but it's easy enough
to try and should help with the problems Joy mentions (could add some
kind of filter sock to the lower end of the tube if the flow is
insufficient to deter small fish from entering).
Taking the basic idea slightly further, a length of more flexible tube
could be formed into a circle (approx half tank radius for sake of
description) with a number of outlets spaced around it (all facing in
the same direction - clockwise say). If the lower end of the vertical
pipe is capped and a feed taken from it to the circular tube, the water
in the tank should slowly rotate and (if the outlets are directed
slightly downwards) should keep solids in suspension and so more likely
to be transferred to the grow beds.
Paula's last post has got me slightly worried as to whether this is
actually the right thing to do though.
Sorry to write at such length about something I haven't tried but
thought it worth mentioning for those with time and equipment to try it.
Of course, if someone has already tried this or similar...
Barry
barrythomas@btinternet.com
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| Message 7 |
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Subject: How to kill/stun fish?
From: Brian Gracia
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 15:38:53 -0600
Hello,
I want to set up a test experiment raising blue crabs. I saw a small
segment of some science show where they were raising lobsters by hand.
Basically, they were hand feeding the lobsters small fish that were either
dead or stunned. How should someone go about killing/stunning the fish
without introducing chemicals into the crab tanks?
Brian Gracia
********************************************
Better Produce through Better Control
********************************************
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| Message 8 |
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Subject: Re: Quantification of tiny bubbles - DO
From: John Hays
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 16:54:26 -0700
At 05:36 PM 2/26/00 +0000, you wrote:
>
> > > From the other node sump the water is returned by
> > > a 1 1/4 inch pipe stepped up to a 3 inch pipe. This
> > > pipe is capped. The cap has 37 quarter inch holes
> > > in it.
> > > Water is shot in at a 45 degree angle with enough
> > > force that it appears to go at least a foot below
> > > the surface.
>
>
> > The reason I ask this is that if you are adding fish of
> > less than 20g into this system with a water return as
> > powerful as you describe then you are likely to loss
> > upwards for 20 fish per day per tank.
>
>Thanks both for the valuable info.
>
>
>Barry
>barrythomas@btinternet.com
Berry you are going to a lit of trouble drilling holes, angling your pipe
etc. Go to your Garden store and get a length of drip hose, they make
different kinds (some porous and super fine ) You want the fine and then
you have to worry about holding it down, because it will float.
John Hays
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| Message 9 |
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Subject: Ceramic Coating "Insulation"
From: "TGTX"
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 19:33:38 -0600
Aquaponickers,
Part of the Controlled Environment Agriculture (CEA) concept that we try to
acheive in aquaponic systems is, obviously temperature control in the
greenhouse.
Thermal mass, ventilation, light control, and insulation all play a part in
temperature control.
Consider the silica tiles on the NASA Shuttle upon re-entry into the
atmosphere.
This is about the best kind of insulation going. Apparently, this amorphous
silica material has made its' way into some commerical products...
The following website alludes to a silica- based coating that.....(so it is
claimed)....can insulate a surface or a space with 16 mils of coating at the
same R factor of 4 inches of foam...R-20, so they say.
Does anyone know about this product, and would anyone care to discuss it vis
a vis insulating the aquaponics greenhouse? I think I heard about such a
paint for the home to reduce air conditioning and heating bills on one of
"Paul Harvey's" radio broadcast at one point, and one of my good buddies is
using something like this on the roof of his custom-built castle to insulate
his house against fierce Texas summers. Anybody know anything about this
stuff?
http://thermalprosystems.com/
Ted
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| Message 10 |
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Subject: Data
From: Raul Vergueiro Martins
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 21:52:59 +1300
Hello:
While I continue mounting my system, I would like to get some data about
tilapia, and may be some friend in the list can inform me.
1 - What is the average weight of tilapia with the ages of 30, 90 and
180 days?
I estimate respectively 30 g, 210 g, and 450 g. Is that correct?
2 - What is the best age to sell tilapia?
I estimate 180 days.
3 - What is the average grow rate of tilapia in grams/day?
4 - What is the average eating rate of tilapia in grams/day?
How that rate varies according to the age of the fishes?
5 - What is the average lost of food in feeding tilapia, in % of total
food offered per day?
6 - What is the best grain size for granulated food?
7 - What is the ideal real food specific weight in Kg/dm3 ?
8 - How much feces does a tilapia excrets in g/day, with the ages of 30,
90 and 180
days?
Does those values correspond only to feces, or to feces plus
unconverted food?
In this case, what is the percentage of unconverted food relative
to the total of feces
plus unconverted food?
I'm assuming a constant percentage of protein in granulated food, and a
non linear gowing rate.
Greetings
Raul Vergueiro Martins
rvm@sti.com.br
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| Message 11 |
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Subject: Re: How to kill/stun fish?
From: Sojourner
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 21:21:56 -0600
Brian Gracia wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> I want to set up a test experiment raising blue crabs. I saw a small
> segment of some science show where they were raising lobsters by hand.
> Basically, they were hand feeding the lobsters small fish that were either
> dead or stunned. How should someone go about killing/stunning the fish
> without introducing chemicals into the crab tanks?
A sap? brass knuckles? A really really artistic interior decorating
design?
A small jolt of electricity? I have NO idea how you would do that, but
I saw it done at Tom and Paula's place once with their Tilapia.
--
Holly ;-D
Contrary Peasant
sojournr@missouri.org
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| Message 12 |
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Subject: Re: Ceramic Coating "Insulation"
From: William Evans
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 19:25:08 -0800
>
> The following website alludes to a silica- based coating that
.....(so it is claimed)....can insulate a surface or a space
ith 16 mils of coating at the same R factor of 4 inches of>
I know a little about some other stuff....called "insulladd"...also
ceramic microspheres that are porous....I think zirconia ceramic
is in the space shuttle tiles as well as the bulk of these cloned
products. Prolly adding regular perlite( fines) to a coating paint
would work similar. THese paints block radiant well i think;;; not
really a thermo thinker so the rest is your guess.
Here's a link>>>>http://www.insuladd.com/energy2.html
billevans
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Subject: Re: How to kill/stun fish?
From: Bertmcl
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 23:30:29 EST
In a message dated 2/26/00 10:16:43 PM Eastern Standard Time,
sojournr@missouri.org writes:
<<
>>
DIP THE TILAPIA INTO ICE COLD WATER.
Bert
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| Message 14 |
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Subject: Re: How to kill/stun fish?
From: "Sam Levy"
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 20:33:52 PST
>
How should someone go about killing/stunning the fish
>without introducing chemicals into the crab tanks?
>
>Brian Gracia
>
brian--
you can kill the fish w/an ice slurry outside the culture tank
sam
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