Aquaponics Digest - Sun 02/27/00
Message 1: Re: Ceramic Coating "Insulation"
from Jennifer Grunest
Message 2: Re: How to kill/stun fish?
from "Steve"
Message 3: Bubbles & Pumps & Eductors
from Bill
Message 4: Re: Ceramic Coating "Insulation"
from "TGTX"
Message 5: Re: Ceramic Coating "Insulation"
from Sojourner
Message 6: S & S System and trout
from laberge@cil.qc.ca (LABERGE MARC)
Message 7: Re: THANKS!! (Re: Lettuce)
from "TGTX"
Message 8: Re: Ceramic Coating "Insulation"
from "Lloyd R. Prentice"
Message 9: Re: Ceramic Coating "Insulation"
from "Lloyd R. Prentice"
Message 10: Re: Ceramic Coating "Insulation"
from "Barry Thomas"
Message 11: Fwd - system questions
from S & S Aqua Farm
Message 12: Re: Request for Guidance
from Marcy and Marc
Message 13: unsubscribe
from
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| Message 1 |
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Subject: Re: Ceramic Coating "Insulation"
From: Jennifer Grunest
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 22:33:14 -0800
FYI - I'm assuming the references made to the shuttle tiles are regarding
the black *bottom* tiles. The black Shuttle "tiles" are a 3M styrofoam core
surrounded by a reinforced carbon-carbon (RCC) material that is baked on.
RCC is the same material that the shuttle nose cone is made of. It was
chosen for it's peculiar property of showing more strength as a result of
heating (the hotter the tiles get, the harder they are to break). Having
held one in my hand, I do not think this material would serve the purpose
mentioned here very well. It is very costly and *EXTREMELY* brittle. One
of the tiles was dropped on the floor and shattered into little pieces.
However, there is another material that may be of interest from the
aerospace industry. I saw this stuff called AeroGel at a NASA trade show a
couple of years ago. It has *Incredible* insulating capabilities and weighs
almost nothing. The guy/company at the show was looking for investors. I
am unsure of what became of it but probably worth a look. I have a sample
of the stuff and when you hold it in your hand, you can hardly see it. It's
just a pinkish highly translucent blob. It's made of an aerated and cured
silicone material. Extremely brittle and has a tendency to break off in
chunks. I saw a brick of it that had been vacuum sealed in a plastic bag.
Still very light and the guy at the show was standing on it. Very tuff
stuff once it was sealed. Probably expensive but interesting anyway.
- Greg
----- Original Message -----
From: William Evans
To:
Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2000 7:25 PM
Subject: Re: Ceramic Coating "Insulation"
>
> >
> > The following website alludes to a silica- based coating that
> .....(so it is claimed)....can insulate a surface or a space
> ith 16 mils of coating at the same R factor of 4 inches of>
>
> I know a little about some other stuff....called "insulladd"...also
> ceramic microspheres that are porous....I think zirconia ceramic
> is in the space shuttle tiles as well as the bulk of these cloned
> products. Prolly adding regular perlite( fines) to a coating paint
> would work similar. THese paints block radiant well i think;;; not
> really a thermo thinker so the rest is your guess.
> Here's a link>>>>http://www.insuladd.com/energy2.html
> billevans
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| Message 2 |
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Subject: Re: How to kill/stun fish?
From: "Steve"
Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 02:08:16 -0600
Bert,
You hurt my feelings...poor "babies"...
Steve...by the way...should have a picture of my system within a couple of
weeks with the help of a friend of mine...should be interesting.........
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2000 10:30 PM
Subject: Re: How to kill/stun fish?
> In a message dated 2/26/00 10:16:43 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> sojournr@missouri.org writes:
>
> <<
> >>
> DIP THE TILAPIA INTO ICE COLD WATER.
>
> Bert
>
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Subject: Bubbles & Pumps & Eductors
From: Bill
Date: 27 Feb 00 03:06:25 PST
Message 7
Subject: Quantification of tiny bubbles - DO
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000
>This makes for 112 holes through which return water is pumped.
The pipes are turned downward at approximately a 45 deg angle =
>DO was 9 mg/L.
>From the other node sump the water is returned by a 1 1/4
inch pipe stepped up to a 3 inch pipe. The cap has 37
quarter inch holes in it. Water is shot in at a 45 degree
angle with enough force that it appears to go at least a
foot below the surface. =
>Further, the multiple stream cross system have... 3 negatives.
>1. High evaporative loss.
I replace from 2 to 4 inches of water daily...
>2. Ever increasing salt levels in the tank...
>3. The nuisance of having to fill it up everyday.
>Hope this helps the discussion.......Emmett
***YES!
The above is intuitivly predictable after experience.
1) Is expected, and will clash with "old school,"
which was never quantified at all.
2) Is a given with #1...
3) Is so readily fixable, it isn't an issue really.
You can later automate it via so many 'costfree' methods.
But for now, It is a benefit, as it gives you a test
result desired. Known water evaporation rates.
Almost the inverse of a water change. Good hard data.
Be sure to log it along with ambient temp and humidity.
(I push Excel, or any spreadsheet for this, and will
assist you if desired. The auto-graphed outputs announce
loudly complex relationships, made suddenly clear.)
----------------------------
Message 10
>Emmett
>you don't mention the water temperature nor do you
mention the %saturation of the water.
>replenishing oxygen in the water that requires both
contact time & surface to be effective.
***I must point out, this is "old school."
It holds true up to a point, only.
***Another factor is impact.
(Ignoring altitude, barometric pressure, chemicals, etc.)
>you might, of course, swap the return arrangement on the =
two systems you mentioned in order to be assured that your
result is a function of the pumping system & not differing
o2 demands of the two systems =
(bacteria--the ones you're trying to culture require o2 as well).
sam
***Sam is right about comparing apples and oranges.
And consider energy use of the systems.
The 127 system is a low pressure system.
The 37 hole is a high velocity,
and therefore high energy system.
Even if the pumps/motors are identical,
a difference might be less than significant to you,
but will be there and might be more than you expected.
As for design, simple hole systems aren't great
sometimes. Although expensive, consider an eductor.
(Also termed sometimes, inductor, or erroneously,
injector.) They allow a suction, usually another
fluid, to be drawn into the main stream.
(Pumpless air injection.)
One for a hose will draw 5 gallons of fluid up 3ft in
an hour (if I recall correctly,) for ~$5. Drawing air
it would flow more. These are laminar flow devices.
More smooth and efficient.
When its output hits the water, all the entrained
air, and more, would be drawn in. It need only be an
inch above the water's surface. (The tiniest angle
will provide circulation. Excess causes swimming,
burning calories. 1 RPM would be OK. 2 max in general.)
Lastly, figure out the right DO for these beasties.
Excess oxygen causes water chemistry to go acid.
Whoops! No, it goes base... LOL I know this...
But it's well after 2AM... Check me on this guys.
It IS significant. You have to correct for it.
Best to lower air to the required amount.
Max velocity is not required. (It will drive up
energy costs.) There is a threshold which
is readily crossed. Optimize pump size over time.
Or use a fancy speed control. Maybe a $10 light dimmer.
Stay within the upper 90%. PWM (Pulse Width Modulation)
is cheap now, if you locate it under less noble monikers.
A $5 house water pressure gauge tapped onto a 'Y'
will give you an idea of pump load/back pressure.
(Read: Repeatable dial-up performance. Log it.
When instruments die, you fall back on a table where
all else is same.)
Goodnight! LOL :>) er, got that wrong too!
Bill
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Subject: Re: Ceramic Coating "Insulation"
From: "TGTX"
Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 08:32:01 -0600
> FYI - I'm assuming the references made to the shuttle tiles are regarding
> the black *bottom* tiles. The black Shuttle "tiles" are a 3M styrofoam
core
> surrounded by a reinforced carbon-carbon (RCC) material that is baked on.
> RCC is the same material that the shuttle nose cone is made of. It was
> chosen for it's peculiar property of showing more strength as a result of
> heating (the hotter the tiles get, the harder they are to break). Having
> held one in my hand, I do not think this material would serve the purpose
> mentioned here very well. It is very costly and *EXTREMELY* brittle. One
> of the tiles was dropped on the floor and shattered into little pieces.
I'm not sure, but I think the tiles I was referring to were the white silica
or ceramic tiles that have incredible heat dissipating
properties...Apparently you can touch them as they glow with heat, and you
will not be burned...somebody explain that to me.
They are, or were, attached to the belly of the shuttle by some kind of high
tech adhesive....and yes, they were very brittle.
This paint or coating material that I have brought up apparently has
microspheres of this material, or similar material...and Bill Evan's post
shows us some info on "Insuladd".
Anyway, it seems to be interesting stuff, and I only bring it up in
contemplating ways to better insulate my new greenhouse for my new
aquaponics system.
Thanks for the interesting input.
Ted
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Subject: Re: Ceramic Coating "Insulation"
From: Sojourner
Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 08:49:49 -0600
Jennifer Grunest wrote:
>
> Probably expensive but interesting anyway.
Aerogel is INCREDIBLY expensive.
PRESENT PRICE SCHEDULE
$2,300 per cu. ft. of silica aerogel powder
$1,800 for 2 pieces of flexible aerogel blanket 3'x2'x½" thick each
$1,800 per aerogel reactor run cycle (for special requests)
$250 minimum for small samples
--
Holly ;-D
Contrary Peasant
sojournr@missouri.org
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Subject: S & S System and trout
From: laberge@cil.qc.ca (LABERGE MARC)
Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 11:48:38 -0500
Hi Paula,
I was wondering if your system would work with trout , if I kept the
total suspended solids under control by filters .
Marc Laberge
Mont Tremblabnt
Quebec , Canada
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Subject: Re: THANKS!! (Re: Lettuce)
From: "TGTX"
Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 11:52:09 -0600
.
>
> There were so many of you who sent info on the lettuce and the Potassium
> question. Wow!! Thanks to all of you. I have saved the messages, because I
> really want to study what all of you have said.
>
Steve, a few more notes on the tomato nutrient formulations. Howard Resh
has a book entitled Hydroponic Tomatoes for the Home Gardener . He
recommends 3 Nutrient Formulations for 3 stages of Plant Maturity (Table 2
in his Appendix pg.127)
In ppm concentrations, here are his recommendations for the nutrients:
Stage 1 is for Seedling from first true-leaf stage (10-14 days old) until
plants are 14-16" tall: N- 100 P- 40 K-200 Ca-100 Mg 20 S-53
Stage 2 is 14"16" tall until 24" tall when fruit set on first cluster is
1/4" to 1/2" in diameter: N-130, P-55, K-300, Ca- 150, Mg- 33, S-109.
Stage 3 is After first fruit set to plant maturity:
N- 180, P-65, K-400, Ca -400, Mg, 45, S-144.
He provides these Macro nutrients by mixing Calcium Nitrate, Potassium
Nitrate, Monopotassium Phosphate, Potassium Sulfate, and Magnesium Sulfate
in the proper ratios.
For micronutrients, he calls for B- 0.3, Mn-0.8, Cu - 0.07, Zn- 0.10, Mo-
0.03, and Fe - 3.0 ppm at all 3 stages. He makes these with Boric Acid,
Manganese Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Zinc Sulfate, Sodium Molybdate, and Iron
Chelate (10% iron).
You can probably get this book via Interlibrary Loan or through Amazon Dot
Com
Ted
The micronutrients
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| Message 8 |
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Subject: Re: Ceramic Coating "Insulation"
From: "Lloyd R. Prentice"
Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 17:14:52 -0500
Hi Ted,
TGTX wrote:
> Part of the Controlled Environment Agriculture (CEA) concept that we try to
> acheive in aquaponic systems is, obviously temperature control in the
> greenhouse.
> Thermal mass, ventilation, light control, and insulation all play a part in
> temperature control.
>
> Consider the silica tiles on the NASA Shuttle upon re-entry into the
> atmosphere.
> This is about the best kind of insulation going. Apparently, this amorphous
> silica material has made its' way into some commerical products...
>
> The following website alludes to a silica- based coating that.....(so it is
> claimed)....can insulate a surface or a space with 16 mils of coating at the
> same R factor of 4 inches of foam...R-20, so they say.
>
> Does anyone know about this product, and would anyone care to discuss it vis
> a vis insulating the aquaponics greenhouse? I think I heard about such a
> paint for the home to reduce air conditioning and heating bills on one of
> "Paul Harvey's" radio broadcast at one point, and one of my good buddies is
> using something like this on the roof of his custom-built castle to insulate
> his house against fierce Texas summers. Anybody know anything about this
> stuff?
>
> http://thermalprosystems.com/
>
I did a web scan a few months ago and found a number of companies promoting this
concept; plus a few clues re: underlying technology/research. I don't have time
at the moment to dig out the note and links I posted to the ferro list, but will
later tonight or tomorrow.
Best wishes,
Lloyd R. Prentice
--
Prentice Associates Incorporated
Creativity, technical excellence and professionalism in print, web and software
communications for the health care and high-tech industries.
See us at: http://paisite.com
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Subject: Re: Ceramic Coating "Insulation"
From: "Lloyd R. Prentice"
Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 18:30:42 -0500
Hi Ted,
I've copied below extracts from a series of posts that I made to the
ferro-cement list several weeks ago re: ceramic "insulation." My
understanding is that the ceramic microspheres in the paints and
coatings are highly reflective of IR energy (like the "Space Blankets"
we used to use a ground covers when we went camping). Supposedly they
also impede conductive loses and, since the paint seals cracks, cut down
on convective losses as well.
3M and a number of other companies sell ceramic microspheres in a number
of diameters and compositions. They're not terribly expensive. My theory
is that if you knew what to buy you could mix up your own paints or
insulating cement coatings. But I haven't zeroed in the optimal specs
yet.
Please keep me posted if your research carries you further.
Best wishes,
Lloyd R. Prentice
---
Finally... a bunch of sites that deal with insulating paints. I haven't
had a chance to study them, but it would be interesting to do some
cost/availability comparisons; and may some real experiments.
http://www.progressivebuilding.com/index.html
http://www.homestead.com/usintellicoatings/home.html
http://thermalprosystems.com/
http://www.ibf.com/bo/capitran.htm
http://jit.arc.nasa.gov/atrs/97/smith/976757/976757.refer.new.html
http://www.freeyellow.com:8080/members4/techtraders/
http://www.insuladd.com/
http://asm.arc.nasa.gov/asm/staff/leiser.shtml
http://www.nasatech.com/WWWboard/messages/105.html
---
Called Truesdale. They're in Brighton, MA.
She thinks we may be talking about silica alumina ceramic microspheres.
Microspheres come in varying sizes. Price for less than 500 lbs. is
approx. $0.70 pound. She will fax literature.
---
A number of companies are promoting thermal insulating paints and roof
coatings. They claim high R values resulting from inclusion of "ceramic
microspheres." Several say that this technology has been used in the
cargo bay of the Space Shuttle. Is this a valid application for your
Cenosphere products?
---
> As a matter of fact, our cenospheres are
> hollow ceramic microspheres with properties that make them ideally
suited as
> an insulating agent in many paints and coatings. Let me know if you
have
> further questions I could help you with. Have a great day!
Many thanks for your response. I do have a few more questions:
- Can you point me to any research reporting on thermal insulation
properties in
paints and coatings?
- Do the cenospheres reflect radiant energy as wells as impede thermal
conduction?
- Will they provide thermal insulation benefits when added to portland
cement/sand slurries? If so, how do they contribute to/reduce
compressive
strength and other mechanical properties?
- Is it possible to buy small sample quantities through you?
Once again, I much appreciate your help.
---
I've been continuing to do a bit of research on ceramic microspheres. I
haven't been able to definitively pin down the material used in the
"thermal insulating paints and coatings" that various companies are
promoting, but I'm turning up a few clues. One site talks about a
"...complex blend of selected microspheres with a mean filler diameter
of .3 microns, but no larger than 10 microns." I found a NASA site that
describes the insulating tiles used for thermal control inside the Space
Shuttle as about "96% AL203 and 4% SiO3. The site, which went into the
thermal control systems in the Space Shuttle in fair detail, didn't
explicitly mention thermal insulating paint or coatings.
If ceramic microspheres provide the thermal insulating properties
promised, and costs aren't out of hand, then it seems to me that it
would be a major contribution toward the $4 house. If we could find the
source for the active ingredient, and it still works when included in
the cement slurry, then so much the better. Imagine a 1-inch thick (or
less) ferro panel with significant R value as the skin of the house.
Seems that the ceramic microspheres might also help reduce weight and
sound transmission.
Thanks to a helpful tip from someone on the list (can't remember who,
but many thanks), I've looked into 3M's offerings. They recommend
Scothlite Glass Bubbles or Z-Light Spheres Ceramic Microspheres for
thermal insulating applications. The Z-Light spheres are available in
grey and off-white, are available in various median sizes from 57 to 173
microns. You can contact 3M for your nearest distributor. I talked with
a nice lady at The Truesdale Company is Brighton, MA. She faxed some
literature and gave me some other helpful info. When I asked an example
price, she quoted $0.70/lb. Since the stuff isn't very dense, evidently
it goes a long way by weight.
I also ran across the following website: http://www.sphereservices.com.
I exchanged some e-mail and received the following response to several
of my questions:
> Cenospheres will reflect radiant energy (especially if coated with
> silver)and they do impede thermal conduction. They are used as an
> additive
> in refractory bricks.
> They would add thermal insulation benefits in portland cement/sand
>slurries
> due to the fact that they are hollow spheres (dead air being the best
> insulator). The compressive strength varies depending on the loading
of
>the
>spheres in the mix. 30 percent is a safe volumetric loading of spheres
> without too much degradation of compressive strength. If you go
higher
> than
> that you would want to look at adding reinforcent such as a polymer
fiber
> to
> maintain mechanical and compressive integrity.
> For sample cenospheres, go to www.sphereservices.com and go to the
Orders
> &
> Info. page. You will want the Recyclospheres SG-300 in the 50lb bag
> ($25/bag). If you need more assistance for samples contact Mr. Rolf
> Reedy
> at ssiorder@usit.net, or 423-388-0922.
Both the 3M and the Cenosphere products seem to have a larger median
size (by a factor of 10) than mentioned in paint site referenced above.
This may be more a matter of spreadability and smoothness when mixed
with paint than insulating value, but until I can find some definitive
technical info, I don't know for sure.
Heat flow through a material can occur through both conductive and
radiant mechanisms. I don't know exactly how much insulative value
ceramic microspheres provide in each case. At least one of the paint
sites stresses the ability of their paint to block radiant energy. It
wasn't clear to me if this paint used ceramic microspheres or some other
technology altogether.
In any event we have enough information to do some experiments. If only
I had time to play...
---
Loren wrote:
> Some great research, What are the insulative requirements of
the
> particular structure you are trying to do? To add any appreciable
> insulative qualities to a wall with microsphere's wouldn't one need to
add
> considerable thickness? Why not just use Expanded Polystyrene board
> (available up to 4' thick) to provide a thickness desired for the
> particular application, then cement with a very hard coat which is
> structural as a skin on the foam? Several manufactures like Dryvet and
> others use this system quite successfully, but one can mix one's own
as
> well.
What caught my interest was the claim by several thermal insulating
paint/coatings mfrs that a 15 mm coating of their product was equivalent
in
R-value to 4-inches of polyurethane foam. I posted a list of some of
these
mfrs several weeks ago.
I was quite curious, and more than a little skeptical, about the
underlying
physics that would make this possible. I still haven't pinned down
definitive
independent sources that confirm the claims, thus my skepticism hasn't
particularly abated. But if there is anything to these claims then I
think the
wins are rather attractive:
Worst case (assuming that this tecnnology works): fabricate a relatively
thin
ferro wall and paint or coat it with one of the commercial products. Now
we
have a rugged, thermal-insulating "skin" for the $4/sq. ft. house that
we've
been fanticising and discussing over recent weeks.
Intermediate case: We find a source for the "active ingrediant" of these
expensive thermal insulating paint/coatings and mix our own at lower
cost.
Best case: We discover that we can mix this "active ingredient" directly
into
our cement slurry and use it in the final coat on walls, floors and
ceilings
-- resulting in lower cost and less work.
At this point this is all pretty much an intellectual exercise for me.
I'm so
busy building software that I don't have time to build anything in the
"real"
world. But I need something to keep my imagination active and my brain
cells
from frizzing out on the tedious code I've been churning out.
---
Loren wrote:
> I think your skepticism is well founded in wondering about
that
thin a
> coating giving the same R-value as 4" of styro. That would be R-17.
What
> I've found looking at the super plasticizers and such for additives
was
> that the cost didn't work out till the contract size got way up there
in
> Dollars. What I have found that is very competitive is a thin shell
of
> cement on a EPS (expanded polystyrene) board. It is very hard (I
> demonstrate letting my clients take a baseball bat to it) It is
readily
> available in most locales. It is easily achieved by most owner
builders
> and most contractors. And it is a good enough concept that several
> manufacturers have already patented variations on the theme. EPS is 18
> cents per inchper square foot in my local hardware store with no
coating.
> 1/8 " of cement is 3 cents a square foot at $80/cubic yard, and most
types
> of scrim from coated fiberglass to chickenwire seem to come out at 15
> cents per square foot. So you can calculate for wall thickness, two
> coatings inside and out, and make the comparison to your other
systems.
I
> calculate $1.44/ sq. ft. for a 6" thick wall with an R value of 26.
No
> labor costs here.
> Not sure how this compares to Richard Austin's cement and clay/straw
system
> which looks interesting as well.
Thanks for the comparative info.
I've extracted below some of the claims and costs from several of the
sites that I
mentioned a few weeks ago.
From: http://www.progressivebuilding.com/index.html
These guys seem to stress using their product in exterior applications
to
reflect
solar radiant energy.
Claim: "Radiant Control Coating adds up
to R-32 equivalent in a single
application!"
stucco -------------- 80-100 sq ft/gallon @ $64.00/gal. = $0.80 sq.ft.
From: http://www.homestead.com/usintellicoatings/home.html
These guys promote interior applications
Claims: "Unlike other conventional interior paints, Ceramic interior
paints
contain the revolutionary advantages of ceramic insulating particles.
These
particles are the heat dissipating element. "
"The paint works by reflecting heat either back into a room, or away
from the exterior walls and roof. "
"A minimum 15 mil dry film thickness of Ceramic Roof Coating applied
over
25 mils
of our
primer can provide an 86% reduction in BTU transfer. The chart
represents the
amounts of
various insulating materials, calculated in a controlled test, to bring
a
dark
asphalt roof up to
the performance of the U.S. Intelli-Coating's System." ( see chart on
http://www.homestead.com/usintellicoatings/index4.html)
From: http://thermalprosystems.com/
Claims: "What is Ceramic-Cover?
Truly a product of the space age, Ceramic-Cover is a revolutionary
insulation and
corrosion resistant material which is in a liquid form and is applied by
spraying.
Just one
thin coat of 16 mils has a comparative R value of 20. The unusual
insulating and
corrosion resistant properties are derived from the product's core
material
"amorphous
silica" or ceramics. Encapsulating the ceramic compound is an extremely
high
quality
acrylic binder which provides elasticity and strong adhesion. It can be
applied to
practically any surface (metal, wood, masonry, glass, etc.) Since UV
rays
do not
harm or
break down Ceramic-Cover it can be applied outside as well as on the
interior. "
"An excellent insulation and vapor barrier for walls, floors and
ceilings.
Ceramic-Cover can
also serve as the finish coat eliminating the need for paint.
Ceramic-Cover
comes in white
and can be tinted. "
"One 16 mil application of Ceramic-Cover out performs 4 inches of foam
rated at
R-20."
From: http://jit.arc.nasa.gov/atrs/97/smith/976757/976757.refer.new.html
Haven't had a chance to study this report yet, but looks like it may
contain some
valuable info.
News item: http://www.freeyellow.com:8080/members4/techtraders/
Claim: "Recent developments in insulating paint technology are
spin offs from the US Space Program and are available to the
contactor and
homeowner in a simple to use additive that is easily mixed into
almost all
types of paint. INSULADD is a complex blend of ceramic
microspheres that
reduce heat transfer when added to your normal house paint. The
resulting
product looks no different but has an insulating performance of
up to an
R-20. "
From: http://www.insuladd.com/
Product is a paint additive
Claim: "Equivalent to R-20 radiant and R-5 passive insulation when mixed
with
light colored paint"
Cost: $12.95 -- Additive for one gallon of paint; $159.80 for 20 gallons
of paint
- 200 sq. ft./gallon = $0.04 sq. ft. plus paint to $0.065 sq. ft. plus
paint
Here, again is the complete list of sites that posted earlier:
http://www.progressivebuilding.com/index.html
http://www.homestead.com/usintellicoatings/home.html
http://thermalprosystems.com/
http://www.ibf.com/bo/capitran.htm
http://jit.arc.nasa.gov/atrs/97/smith/976757/976757.refer.new.html
http://www.freeyellow.com:8080/members4/techtraders/
http://www.insuladd.com/
http://asm.arc.nasa.gov/asm/staff/leiser.shtml
http://www.nasatech.com/WWWboard/messages/105.html
I'll continue digging. I have a few leads on people I can talk to.
--
Prentice Associates Incorporated
Creativity, technical excellence and professionalism in print, web and
software communications for the health care and high-tech industries.
See us at: http://paisite.com
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| Message 10 |
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Subject: Re: Ceramic Coating "Insulation"
From: "Barry Thomas"
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 00:34:47 -0000
> > Cenospheres will reflect radiant energy (especially
> > if coated with silver)
So would anything else I'd have thought. Seems less than helpful re
conductive losses though...
> What caught my interest was the claim by several
> thermal insulating paint/coatings mfrs that a 15 mm
> coating of their product was equivalent
I had assumed that "mil" was referring to the small bits of an inch (or
is it feet, yards, fathoms?) that the poor souls still struggling with
imperial measurements use - 15mm seems quite a thick layer of paint?
I've hardly examined all the info exhaustively but the main claims do
seem to be for radiation rather than conduction?
Very interesting though.
Barry
barrythomas@btinternet.com
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| Message 11 |
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Subject: Fwd - system questions
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 19:28:10 -0600
From: timjohanns
To: snsaquasys@townsqr.com
Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2000 4:25 PM
Subject: chat room
I am trying to get started in bioponic aquaculture, and have a 14' by 32'
cold frame. a 1,050 gallon plastic tank, pumps, 6- 4' by 8' gravel growing
beds filled with "sand-screenings" ie. used in the central upper midwest as
decorative rock around houses, flower beds, ect. I incorporated a radiant
heat system that works via water that is pumped through hundreds of feet of
plastic pipe beneath concrete staves from a silo I tore down. The cold frame
sets atop a 30" wall made from landscape timbers. I also have a
aerohydroponic system which incorporates 5 - 20' 6 inch pvc schedule 27-29
plastic drain pipe with 2 3/4" holes drilled every 7" which sets on the
floor in the anterior portion of the greenhouse, it is supplied it's water
via a 110 gallon tank buried beneath the floor to maintain a lower water
temperature and thus warding off excessive nutrient robbing algae. This
system works fantastic for lettuce, green peppers, chile's of all kinds,
bok-choy, anything really, but we utilize it for low growing items. I want
to add a small hyper-insulated building for redworm, red-claw and
snapping-turtle raising capabilities, in addition to the tilapia of course.
Separate, but closely integrated systems designed to compliment one another.
In a controlled atmosphere such as a basement here in Iowa, turtles
(snappers) grow at an alarming rate with feed to wt. ratio's scarcely
rivaled by those of the tilapia. They have a 99% viable hatch rate and can
be sex controlled via close temperature regulation of the hatching media. (
ie.sand ) the market is strong and varies with the size of the finished
product, 3 to 10 pounds. tanks can utilize bioponic technology to biofilter
the water, giving another by-product to feed to your rabbits, etc. got any
ideas related to the following?
S&S Aqua Farm, http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
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| Message 12 |
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Subject: Re: Request for Guidance
From: Marcy and Marc
Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 20:54:09 -0700
> > Bill wrote:
> >
> > Message 7
> > Subject: Quantification of tiny bubbles - DO
> > Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000
> >
> > >This makes for 112 holes through which return water is pumped.
> > The pipes are turned downward at approximately a 45 deg angle
>
Bill,
Some might think me off topic but I feel that the list is
not getting your best. I certainly don't feel I am with your
short abbreviated lines and minimal personality content.
I know for one that I flamed you a while back and see and
regret it as I further and further shuck off my big city
corporate war room PTSD as I spend more time on this farm.
While at the time I felt justified, and perhaps I was, as I
reread my post I have to admit I regretfully used a
sledgehammer to swat a fly.
I also recall you commenting that you had input from other
folks that some wanted you to shorten your posts or
something to that effect.
After re-reading your old posts I feel a lot has been lost.
Humor, musings, filler that transmitted your experience and
maturity on subject matter but sadly less Bill is evident
also.
Your attempt to positively accommodate all is evident. I
realize some want it short and sweet but IMHO respectfully
suggest that re-evaluation may be beneficial.
For what it's worth Bill, I apologize for my overreaction
and any dampening it caused on your feeling free to be
yourself in this newsgroup. My hypocrisy is uncomfortably
clear to me.
Since I publicly over-reacted I feel you deserve a public
apology and my apologies to those who feel I am off topic.
Marc
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| Message 13 |
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Subject: unsubscribe
From:
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 14:48:54 +1030 (CST)
unsubscribe
|
