Aquaponics Digest - Mon 03/13/00
Message 1: Re: Fish Food
from "Sam Levy"
Message 2: Re: seeds
from "beacnhrt"
Message 3: Re: more turtle stuff
from "beacnhrt"
Message 4: Re: more turtle stuff
from "Lloyd R. Prentice"
Message 5: Re: Any suggestions
from "James Rakocy"
Message 6: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Fri 03/10/00
from "James Rakocy"
Message 7: Re: Any suggestions
from "James Rakocy"
Message 8: Fw: Organic Certification Standards for Aquatic Animals
from S & S Aqua Farm
Message 9: Seed company URLS request, was Re: seeds
from S & S Aqua Farm
Message 10: RE: Seed company URLS request
from "Ron Brooks"
Message 11: Re: Seed company URLS request, was Re: seeds
from Sojourner
Message 12: Re: Fw: Organic Certification Standards for Aquatic Animals
from atkindw@cwjamaica.com (david w atkinson)
Message 13: turtle markets
from "timjohanns"
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| Message 1 |
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Subject: Re: Fish Food
From: "Sam Levy"
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 23:14:57 PST
steve-
where ar you located? if in the united states i'd reccommend getting in
touch w/your local ag extension service--they should at the least be able to
point you to farmers who are buying fish food
sam
>From: "Steve"
>Reply-To: aquaponics@townsqr.com
>To:
>Subject: Fish Food
>Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 03:27:00 -0600
>
>Hello again,
>
>Does anyone know of a "reputable" source where I can buy fish food?
>
>I have asked this question before and have had responses, but it seems as
>if
>no one is interested in actually selling anything. I have gone through 2
>"reputable" sources on one-list and the people never want to get in touch
>with me again. I even went to the expense of carrying on a conversation
>with
>one of them long-distance on my cell-phone, but he never got back to me. I
>am at a kind of a loss as of what to do next.
>
>I just spent $40 for a bag of medicated fish food. Expensive, yes, but when
>all you get is lip service from all of the other people who say they will
>supply you, what are you suppose to do?
>
>Would appreciate any help.........Steve
>
>
>
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| Message 2 |
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Subject: Re: seeds
From: "beacnhrt"
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 07:48:21 -0600
tim,
Try Johnny's Selected seeds of Albion, Maine. www.johnnyseeds.com
-----Original Message-----
From: timjohanns
To: aquaponics
Date: Sunday, March 12, 2000 9:31 PM
Subject: seeds
>Iowa has a lot of cold days and is considered low light, does anyone have a
>source for seeds that would accomodate these conditions ( low light and
>solar greenhouse conditions such as those fo Hawaii, addresses? catalogs?
>phone numbers etc, luv some info and help. TIA bioman
>
>
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| Message 3 |
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Subject: Re: more turtle stuff
From: "beacnhrt"
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 07:59:33 -0600
Thanks for the information Tim.
-----Original Message-----
From: timjohanns
To: aquaponics
Date: Sunday, March 12, 2000 11:06 PM
Subject: more turtle stuff
>we tried raising wild hand caught snappers, but they don't grow, turtles
>have a clear web-like substance in the peritoneal cavity that is interlaced
>with eggs of differing sizes, this facilitates laying eggs in many places,
>decreasing the incidence of predation, increasing hatching numbers and so
>on. in captivity you simply await ovulation, and expulsion of the floating
>egg to begin hatching.
>
>
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| Message 4 |
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Subject: Re: more turtle stuff
From: "Lloyd R. Prentice"
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 09:47:45 -0500
Hello,
timjohanns wrote:
> we tried raising wild hand caught snappers, but they don't grow, turtles
> have a clear web-like substance in the peritoneal cavity that is interlaced
> with eggs of differing sizes, this facilitates laying eggs in many places,
> decreasing the incidence of predation, increasing hatching numbers and so
> on. in captivity you simply await ovulation, and expulsion of the floating
> egg to begin hatching.
Excuse my ignorance, where is the market for snapping turtles? Who buys them
and why?
Best wishes,
Lloyd
--
Prentice Associates Incorporated
Creativity, technical excellence and professionalism in print, web and software
communications for the health care and high-tech industries.
See us at: http://paisite.com
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Subject: Re: Any suggestions
From: "James Rakocy"
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 13:45:38 -0400
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2000 12:59 PM
Subject: Re: Any suggestions
> So, if I understand this right, by selecting the correct volume of
plants
> can control the nutrient level. It sounds like it may be a delicate
balance
> between strong enough for the plants yet clean enough for the fish. How
do
> you determine the cutoff, the point where the water in the system is just
> right for the fish? What would that number be in EC?
We use tilapia and they can tolerate very high salt levels. In fact, red
tilapia can grow well in full strength sea water and Mozambique tilapia can
do well in double strength sea water.
The EC levels you are talking about are roughly 5% sea water.
> In hydroponics I set the EC for lettuce at around 1500 uS and for tomatoes
at
> about 2500 to 3000 uS. It would seem the level set for lettuce (1500uS)
> would be a lot easier on the fish then the other.
>
> One last thought, would one control the relative strength of the nutrient
in
> the water,in a mature system, by controlling the amount of feed fed?
>
> Thanks for the help, Joel
There are two other factors that come into play - denitrification and
mineralization. Nitrate accumulation rates are very high in aquaponic
systems, but you can regulate them by setting up an anaerobic zone where
denitrification occurs (nitrates are converted to nitrogen gas). Solid
retention times affect the amount of nutrients added to the system from
microbial decomposition from organic matter (mineralization). Feed is the
primary factor controlling nutrient levels but denitrification and
mineralization also affect nutrient levels. In a mature system, if some
nutrients accumulate excessively, you exchange some water with new water.
>
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Subject: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Fri 03/10/00
From: "James Rakocy"
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 13:47:25 -0400
We will re-advertise the course on March 15.
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2000 11:41 AM
Subject: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Fri 03/10/00
> In a message dated 03/11/2000 12:04:46 AM Central Standard Time,
> aquaponics-digest-request@townsqr.com writes:
>
> << You should take our 7-day course at the end of June if
> you want to learn more about aquaponic systems. Jim R.
> >>
>
****************************************************************************
**
> Jim,
> Please tell us more about your 7-day course.
> Regards,
> Dave
>
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| Message 7 |
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Subject: Re: Any suggestions
From: "James Rakocy"
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 14:12:43 -0400
The ATTRA description of the UVI system is inaccurate. We do not use a
separate biofilter. We are helping them revise the description. Yes, you
have the right idea. We want the system to always operate near its carrying
capacity with relatively consistent inputs and outputs. Aquaponic systems
are expensive to build and operate. Therefore, you want to maximize your
daily production and work near the top of that sawtooth graph. You do not
want to do batch culture as with ponds. In a pond fish are stocked at about
10% of the pond's capacity. During their 6-month production cycle they
gradually reach the pond's capacity (100%). With four fish rearing tanks
and staggered harvests we never go below 75% of the system's capacity. Jim
R.
> The "growing area" thread from a while back has some more detailed info
> from Jim Rakocy on this. I found the UVI and ATTRA sites also very
> useful. I believe the following to be true but it may not be. Just
> thought it might be useful as another perspective or at least provide
> some discussion material as it gets ripped to bits. :)
>
>
> > One last thought, would one control the relative strength
> > of the nutrient in the water,in a mature system, by controlling
> > the amount of feed fed?
>
> I think, to an extent perhaps but the amount fed is determined mainly by
> the fish density which, if only a percentage is harvested at a time,
> should remain fairly constant. Doing the same with the plants results in
> a constant rate of conversion there as well.
>
> I've abused 'constant' twice here. These values only really approach
> constant when averaged over time. Assuming a UVI type system with four
> tanks and a six week fish harvest of 25% then a graph of the rate of
> fish waste production over, say, a year would show as a sawtooth - slow
> climb to a peak followed by a short, sharp fall every 6 weeks. 25% of
> the lettuce is harvested a week giving another, higher frequency
> sawtooth for the rate of uptake/conversion. Subtract this from the first
> and you get a wave that averages around zero (if ratio of plant area to
> fish mass is correct) but is rougher still. Increasing the harvest
> frequency further, reduces the range of the values, bringing the overall
> nutrient level closer to a constant. This raft system goes so far along
> this route and then smooths things out by having a small plant area to
> system water volume (rough analog to using water as passive heat storage
> in GHs - maybe not so rough now I think about it, imagine if a day
> lasted 24 weeks...).
>
> So from what I can gather, an actual graph of nutrient levels over time
> in such a system would display as a very low amplitude sawtooth caused
> mainly by a slight (intentional) accumulation of nutrients, punctuated
> by regular dumping of small amounts of water from the system when solids
> are removed. This should also prevent any build-up of individual
> components of the nutrient (the water added to replace that transpired
> or evaporated won't be helping much in this).
>
> Like I say, just my current understanding...
>
> Barry
> barrythomas@btinternet.com
>
>
>
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Subject: Fw: Organic Certification Standards for Aquatic Animals
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 18:16:02 -0600
I've received more detailed information from Deborah Brister on the upcoming
workshops/public meetings. Please email me at if
you'd like the full post. This message contains some of the subject
questions that will be covered, concerning farm-raised fish as well as
wild-harvested, and I'll be happy to post it to whoever is interested - I
just think it's too long for the list in general. Paula
----------------------------------------------
>
>Hi Paula,
>
>Here is some additional information about the organic standards public
>meetings.
> For those with an interest in organic standards for aquatic animals both
> from aquaculture operations and wild-harvested activities please review
the
> following notice from USDA-Agricultural Marketing Service. Note the
schedule
> for public meetings and registration process for persons wishing to
provide
> oral testimony. There is also a request for written comments from persons
> unable to attend any of the public meetings. This is an opportunity to
> develop an organic certification program for farm-raised aquatic species.
> Please share this notice with others who may have an interest.
>
> Gary Jensen
> USDA-CSREES
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| Message 9 |
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Subject: Seed company URLS request, was Re: seeds
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 18:35:51 -0600
At 09:37 PM 03/12/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>Iowa has a lot of cold days and is considered low light, does anyone have a
>source for seeds that would accomodate these conditions ( low light and
>solar greenhouse conditions such as those fo Hawaii, addresses? catalogs?
>phone numbers etc, luv some info and help. TIA bioman
Tim - I've run into a mental block trying to locate my listing of seed
sources (this will not surprise some of you -- my mental blocks seem to come
more frequently these days, sometimes referred to as having a "senior
moment" -- "I've lost my file, and I can't pick it up!), so I'm asking
members to please post those seed company URL's they have so that we might
work toward posting a comprehensive listing. All comments eagerly solicited
as to the benefits and/or cautions you might offer as well.
If you'll review the major US company catalogs, you'll often see products
referred to as "short season". We've found these varieties to generally be
acceptable in conditions such as you describe. The Early Cascade salad
tomato and Sweet Gypsy pepper are two of my favorites.
Do have have specific crops in mind? This will generally bring out more
comments than just for "seeds" at large, but at this point I'd welcome all
the input we can get just so I can finally summarize these sources (and this
time put them in a file where I can actually FIND them the next time it's
asked).
Paula
S&S Aqua Farm, http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
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Subject: RE: Seed company URLS request
From: "Ron Brooks"
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 19:59:13 -0500
Paula recently found these reference sites hope they help
http://pbmfaq.dvol.com/list/
this one has over 1850 seed catalog companies listed
http://www.qnet.com/~johnsonj/
Ron
The One Who Walks Two Paths
ICQ 44273171
-> -----Original Message-----
-> From: aquaponics
-> [mailto:aquaponics]On Behalf Of S & S Aqua Farm
-> Sent: Monday, March 13, 2000 7:36 PM
-> To: aquaponics@townsqr.com
-> Subject: Seed company URLS request, was Re: seeds
->
->
-> At 09:37 PM 03/12/2000 -0800, you wrote:
-> >Iowa has a lot of cold days and is considered low light, does
-> anyone have a
-> >source so I'm asking
-> members to please post those seed company URL's they have so
-> that we might
-> work toward posting a comprehensive listing. All comments
-> eagerly solicited
-> as to the benefits and/or cautions you might offer as well.
->
->
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Subject: Re: Seed company URLS request, was Re: seeds
From: Sojourner
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 19:43:40 -0600
S & S Aqua Farm wrote:
>
> I'm asking members to please post those seed company
> URL's they have so that we might work toward posting
> a comprehensive listing.
OK, here goes:
Mertus gardening catalog of catalogs:
http://www.cog.brown.edu/gardening
http://www.gardenweb.com/aogs/
http://www.richters.com/
http://www.budget.net/~herbseed/Welcome.htm
http://www.thymegarden.com/
http://www.scs.leeds.ac.uk/pfaf/
http://web.css.orst.edu/Resources/Vendors/Seed/index.html
http://www.gardenersdelight.com/
http://www.batnet.com/rwc-seed/
http://www.mellingers.com/
http://www.shadow.net/~heruka/
http://www.cooksgarden.com/
http://www.kingcon.com/agljdg/INDEX.HTM
http://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/tamuhort.html
http://www.burpee.com/
http://www.johnnyseeds.com/
http://www.cog.brown.edu/gardening/
http://www.hirts.com/
http://nj5.injersey.com/~jceres/garden/sse.html
http://www.parkseed.com/
http://www.gurneys.com/
--
Holly ;-D
Contrary Peasant
sojournr@missouri.org
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Subject: Re: Fw: Organic Certification Standards for Aquatic Animals
From: atkindw@cwjamaica.com (david w atkinson)
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 21:06:30 -0800
Hi Paula,
You can send it me offlist.
David A. - atkindw@cwjamaica.com
At 06:16 PM 03/13/2000 -0600, you wrote:
>I've received more detailed information from Deborah Brister on the upcoming
>workshops/public meetings. Please email me at if
>you'd like the full post. This message contains some of the subject
>questions that will be covered, snip ...., snip ...
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| Message 13 |
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Subject: turtle markets
From: "timjohanns"
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 23:25:48 -0800
Chicago has the markets for the snappers, the asian community and
restaurants, we sell to a fellow in Iowa but they go to Chicago eventually.
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