Aquaponics Digest - Wed 03/15/00
Message 1: Re: Any suggestions
from "Steve"
Message 2: Re: Fish Food
from "Steve"
Message 3: Re: Fish Food
from "Steve"
Message 4: Re: wrigglers
from "Steve"
Message 5: Re: Fish Food
from "Steve"
Message 6: Re: wrigglers
from Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Message 7: Re: Any suggestions
from "James Rakocy"
Message 8: Aquaponics Short Course at UVI
from Donald Bailey
Message 9: Re: tanks
from "Sam Levy"
Message 10: tilapia
from "timjohanns"
Message 11: Fw: [IR-L] Algae in hydroponics
from "Clem Wehner"
Message 12: Re: tanks
from Ronald Polka
Message 13: aqua/bio ponics
from "timjohanns"
Message 14: Re: wrigglers
from "bennett"
Message 15: Re: wrigglers
from "vpage"
Message 16: Re: tanks
from "vpage"
Message 17: wriggler thoughts
from "timjohanns"
Message 18: reply to vpage tank reply
from "timjohanns"
Message 19: Re: wrigglers
from Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Message 20: Re: wrigglers
from Joe_Myers@mail.mda.state.mo.us
Message 21: mealworms
from "Peter D. Rau"
Message 22: anyone doing aquaponics within 100 miles of New Orleans
from "Peter D. Rau"
Message 23: Fish sales at farmers' markets
from S & S Aqua Farm
Message 24: AD (sort of), was Re: tanks
from S & S Aqua Farm
Message 25: what the f......
from "timjohanns"
Message 26: Re: reply to vpage tank reply
from "vpage"
Message 27: Re: wriggler thoughts
from "vpage"
Message 28: Re: Fish sales at farmers' markets
from tvoivozhd
Message 29: Re: tanks
from Bertmcl
Message 30: Re: Fish sales at farmers' markets
from Bertmcl
Message 31: Re: aqua/bio ponics
from "Jay Myers"
Message 32: Talapia prices
from "Jay Myers"
Message 33: advice on tanks
from "bennett"
Message 34: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Tue 03/14/00
from DAVEINBHAM
Message 35: Re: wrigglers
from "Sam Levy"
Message 36: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Tue 03/14/00
from "beacnhrt"
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| Message 1 |
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Subject: Re: Any suggestions
From: "Steve"
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 02:18:36 -0600
Hi Dr. "Jim",
I have heard so much about you. I even heard about you when talking to a
fellow at the University of Miss..He told me to call you, but I haven't had
the time. His name is ...Morton...I remember that much because I associated
him with salt....actually he is not with UM...he is with some fertilizer
company...I have my notes somewhere.
My wife & I are way past due for a vacation and I , we, would love to come
to the Virgin Islands, but June is a wonderful time in Wisconsin. When are
you having your next class?
I have given up on raising tomatoes and am now concentrating on Romaine
lettuce and a Phillipine green bean. It is a very long green bean....like
12" - 18". My local Phillipine population requested this and I thought I
would try it...SO FAR...FINGERS CROSSED...this stupid thing is doing
great...just loves the aquaponic system...I don't know if this bean has ever
been grown hydro/aquaponically before...should be interesting.
Didn't really want to contact you with a bunch of trivia, but I guess I did
anyway.
Thanks........Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Rakocy"
To:
Sent: Friday, March 10, 2000 9:26 AM
Subject: Re: Any suggestions
> This is a complex question. Nutrient levels are related to the amount of
> feed added to the system, the area devoted to plants, the type of plants
and
> the water volume of the system. Most systems apply approximately 50-60 g
of
> feed per square meter of plant growing area per day. Let's say you have a
> 1,000 gallon rearing tank and will raise 500 lbs of fish with a feed
> conversion ration of 1.5. Total feed added to the system would be 750 lbs
> in a 180 day growing period for example. Average feed is 4.17 lbs. per
day
> or 1892 g. Dividing by 50 g/m2/day, you will need about 38 m2 of plant
> growing area. It's hard to detect any drop in nutrient levels as water
> flows through the hydroponic tanks, but a relatively steady state will
> develop. By steady state I mean nutrient levels will fluctuate within an
> acceptable range. You should take our 7-day course at the end of June if
> you want to learn more about aquaponic systems. Jim R.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
> To:
> Sent: Friday, March 10, 2000 12:42 AM
> Subject: Re: Any suggestions
>
>
> > In a message dated 3/9/00 10:48:43 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> jrakocy@uvi.edu
> > writes:
> >
> > >
> > > > Could you also advise on fish density and water flow rate
> > > > for close looped systems.
> > >
> > > You should shoot for a final rearing tank density of 0.5 lbs/gallon
(60
> > > kg/m3) and an water exchange rate in the rearing tank that can vary
> from
> > > roughly 60 minutes or greater at stocking to nearly 30 minutes at
> harvest.
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Any idea on the amount of nutrient that could be available at max fish
> > capacity and with an exchange rate of 30 to 60 minutes?
> >
> > Do you expect to have fairly clean water, clean of all nutrients, from
the
> > return line at these rates?
> >
> > Thanks, Joel
> >
> >
>
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| Message 2 |
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Subject: Re: Fish Food
From: "Steve"
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 02:24:47 -0600
Hi Jay,
Thanks for responding.
This fish food thing is really pissing me off. I keep hearing about $8-$12/
50# bag...but it never happens.
This price really doesn't exist...as one supplier never got back to me...or
the price is a "low-ball"...another supplier got back to me with $30/bag w/o
shipping.
See what a nice guy I am. I don't even mention names. But I would love to
get below $25/bag (incl. shipping).
If you have any info, I would appreciate it.
Thanks..........Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jay Myers"
To:
Cc: "Teri Mathis"
Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2000 8:08 AM
Subject: Re: Fish Food
> >Does anyone know of a "reputable" source where I can buy fish food?
> >Would appreciate any help.........Steve
>
>
>
>
>
> Steve -
>
> I don't know where you are, and shipping will always enter into the final
> cost, but I can share with you what I do.
>
> There is a co-op just east of Tampa, Fl., which is a very large tropical
> fish rearing area. I have had good service from them when I can't find
what
> I'm looking for something. I assume there are other co-op's in other
parts
> of the country. You might talk with either other fish farmers in your
> area, or schools that have programs involving fish. The U. of Florida has
a
> demo farm near me that has been helpful too.
>
> Purina puts out a variety of food that my fish are growing well on. They
> are in Missouri, and have been very helpful in sending feeding charts,
etc.
> They also gave me the name of a feed store near me that carries their
food.
> Most any feed store carries Purina, and can get the fish food for you.
That
> is how I normally get mine now. We'll E-mail you their phone number when
I
> get to my office, as well as the phone no. of the co-op near Tampa.
>
> When I need to go near Tampa I buy some because they are a little
cheaper
> than my local supplier, but it's too expensive to ship from there. (400
> miles)
>
> Hope this helps.
> Jay
> Panama City Beach, Fl.
>
>
>
>
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| Message 3 |
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Subject: Re: Fish Food
From: "Steve"
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 02:27:17 -0600
Thanks Sam,
I tried, but they only deal with trees and attorneys. You know what you call
2 attorneys at the bottom of the lake???...."a good start".
Take care.......Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sam Levy"
To:
Sent: Monday, March 13, 2000 1:14 AM
Subject: Re: Fish Food
> steve-
>
> where ar you located? if in the united states i'd reccommend getting in
> touch w/your local ag extension service--they should at the least be able
to
> point you to farmers who are buying fish food
>
> sam
>
> >From: "Steve"
> >Reply-To: aquaponics@townsqr.com
> >To:
> >Subject: Fish Food
> >Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 03:27:00 -0600
> >
> >Hello again,
> >
> >Does anyone know of a "reputable" source where I can buy fish food?
> >
> >I have asked this question before and have had responses, but it seems as
> >if
> >no one is interested in actually selling anything. I have gone through 2
> >"reputable" sources on one-list and the people never want to get in touch
> >with me again. I even went to the expense of carrying on a conversation
> >with
> >one of them long-distance on my cell-phone, but he never got back to me.
I
> >am at a kind of a loss as of what to do next.
> >
> >I just spent $40 for a bag of medicated fish food. Expensive, yes, but
when
> >all you get is lip service from all of the other people who say they will
> >supply you, what are you suppose to do?
> >
> >Would appreciate any help.........Steve
> >
> >
> >
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
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| Message 4 |
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Subject: Re: wrigglers
From: "Steve"
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 02:35:10 -0600
I am probably jumping in here too fast because I haven't read any posts past
this yet.. Tilapia are omnivores not carnivores.
I even had the same thought and bought a worm farm. I placed some worms in
the tanks with my breeders for them to have a munch...the worms are still
there.
I also raise carnivorous fish so all is not lost.
Just a thought........Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "timjohanns"
To: "aquaponics"
Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2000 11:27 PM
Subject: wrigglers
> OK, I realize someone else probably thought of this already so please
> enlighten me. Why don't people raising tilapia feed them red wrigglers if
> they are 70% protien as opposed to 40% fish food, are they not complete
> protiens or what am I missing here, worms are free, and grow prolifically
on
> greenhouse scraps, too perfect world?
>
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| Message 5 |
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Subject: Re: Fish Food
From: "Steve"
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 02:36:30 -0600
Thanks a lot Ted,
I will contact these people.
Take care........Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "TGTX"
To:
Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2000 11:23 AM
Subject: Re: Fish Food
> > >Does anyone know of a "reputable" source where I can buy fish food?
> > >Would appreciate any help.........Steve
>
> Clements Farm Service P.O. Box 2347 Gibsonton, FL 33534
> Phone 813-677-1627
>
> Burris Mill & Feed, Inc. 1012 Pearl St. Franklinton, LA 70438
> Phone 800 928 2782 or 504 839 3400
>
> Rangen Inc.
> P.O. Box 706 115 13th Ave. South, Buhl, ID 83316 U.S.A.
> 208-543 6421 8006576446
> 1500 East Cedar, Angleton, TX 77515, U.S.A.
> Balrosario S.A., P.O. Box 659, Guayaquil, Ecuador
>
> Zeigler Bros., Inc.
> P.O. Box 95, Gardners, PA 17324
> 800 841-6800
>
> Perdue Specialty Feeds, Inc.
> 139 South First Street
> Catawissa, PA 17829
> 800-358-6595
>
> Nelson & Sons, Inc.
> Nelson's Sterling Silver Cup
> 118 West 4800 South P.O. Box 57428
> Murray Utah 84157-0428
> 801 262 2991 800 521 9092
>
> Integral Fish Foods, Inc.
> 715 South 7th. Street
> Grand Junction, CO 815 01
> 970-242-2798
>
> Southern States Aquaculture Feeds
> Jeff Fagan at 888-677-3474
>
> Purina Mills, Inc.
> P.O. Box 66812
> St. Louis, MO 63166-6812 USA
> 800-227-8941
>
> There are many more, but these are some of the big dogs.
>
> Ted
>
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| Message 6 |
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Subject: Re: wrigglers
From: Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 04:08:41 -0500
> OK, I realize someone else probably thought of this already so please
> enlighten me. Why don't people raising tilapia feed them red wrigglers if
> they are 70% protien as opposed to 40% fish food, are they not complete
> protiens or what am I missing here, worms are free, and grow prolifically on
> greenhouse scraps, too perfect world?
Tim,
There's a really good answer to this one. The value of the worms in $/#
is higher than the value of the tilapia you can produce with them. So
in the turtle debate the return on investment needs to be higher than
for tilapia for this to be financially feasible.
Adriana
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| Message 7 |
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Subject: Re: Any suggestions
From: "James Rakocy"
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 09:16:48 -0400
We hold the course only once per year in the summer so teachers and able to
come and the dormitory is vacant. I'm from Wisconsin so I know what you
mean. Summers are short there, but you don't have coral reefs.
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve
To:
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2000 4:18 AM
Subject: Re: Any suggestions
> Hi Dr. "Jim",
>
> I have heard so much about you. I even heard about you when talking to a
> fellow at the University of Miss..He told me to call you, but I haven't
had
> the time. His name is ...Morton...I remember that much because I
associated
> him with salt....actually he is not with UM...he is with some fertilizer
> company...I have my notes somewhere.
>
> My wife & I are way past due for a vacation and I , we, would love to come
> to the Virgin Islands, but June is a wonderful time in Wisconsin. When are
> you having your next class?
>
> I have given up on raising tomatoes and am now concentrating on Romaine
> lettuce and a Phillipine green bean. It is a very long green bean....like
> 12" - 18". My local Phillipine population requested this and I thought I
> would try it...SO FAR...FINGERS CROSSED...this stupid thing is doing
> great...just loves the aquaponic system...I don't know if this bean has
ever
> been grown hydro/aquaponically before...should be interesting.
>
> Didn't really want to contact you with a bunch of trivia, but I guess I
did
> anyway.
>
> Thanks........Steve
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "James Rakocy"
> To:
> Sent: Friday, March 10, 2000 9:26 AM
> Subject: Re: Any suggestions
>
>
> > This is a complex question. Nutrient levels are related to the amount
of
> > feed added to the system, the area devoted to plants, the type of plants
> and
> > the water volume of the system. Most systems apply approximately 50-60
g
> of
> > feed per square meter of plant growing area per day. Let's say you have
a
> > 1,000 gallon rearing tank and will raise 500 lbs of fish with a feed
> > conversion ration of 1.5. Total feed added to the system would be 750
lbs
> > in a 180 day growing period for example. Average feed is 4.17 lbs. per
> day
> > or 1892 g. Dividing by 50 g/m2/day, you will need about 38 m2 of plant
> > growing area. It's hard to detect any drop in nutrient levels as water
> > flows through the hydroponic tanks, but a relatively steady state will
> > develop. By steady state I mean nutrient levels will fluctuate within
an
> > acceptable range. You should take our 7-day course at the end of June
if
> > you want to learn more about aquaponic systems. Jim R.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From:
> > To:
> > Sent: Friday, March 10, 2000 12:42 AM
> > Subject: Re: Any suggestions
> >
> >
> > > In a message dated 3/9/00 10:48:43 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> > jrakocy@uvi.edu
> > > writes:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > > Could you also advise on fish density and water flow rate
> > > > > for close looped systems.
> > > >
> > > > You should shoot for a final rearing tank density of 0.5 lbs/gallon
> (60
> > > > kg/m3) and an water exchange rate in the rearing tank that can vary
> > from
> > > > roughly 60 minutes or greater at stocking to nearly 30 minutes at
> > harvest.
> > >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > Any idea on the amount of nutrient that could be available at max fish
> > > capacity and with an exchange rate of 30 to 60 minutes?
> > >
> > > Do you expect to have fairly clean water, clean of all nutrients, from
> the
> > > return line at these rates?
> > >
> > > Thanks, Joel
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
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Subject: Aquaponics Short Course at UVI
From: Donald Bailey
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 09:38:08 -0400
The University of the Virgin Islands will hold an Aquaponics and Tilapia
Aquaculture Short Course June 25 - July 1, 2000.
Following is the course announcement. Additional information for the
course
is available at its web site
http://rps.uvi.edu/AES/Aquaculture/UVIShortCourse.html
Program - day course that will provide in-depth knowledge of the
principles and practical application of the aquaponic and greenwater
tank
culture systems that have been developed at the University of the Virgin
Islands. Participants will be introduced to a variety of system designs
that
maintain water quality by various solids removal techniques and by
hydroponic plant culture (aquaponics), a suspended growth process
(greenwater tank culture) or fixed-film nitrification. Fish production
instruction will be conducted using both the Nile tilapia (Oreochromis
niloticus) and red tilapia. Hydroponic plant production will focus on
lettuce, but will also cover many other vegetables as well as culinary
and
medicinal herbs and ornamental flowers.
Instruction - Each day will include a half-day of classroom lecture and
a
half-day of hands-on field work. Participants will learn the technology
through presentation of the theory and practical skill development. Each
student will be given a notebook of reference materials. Water quality
labs
will cover the standard methods of analysis and the use of water quality
test kits. Field work will include fish handling, vegetable production
and
system operation.
Facilities - UVI is located in the heart of beautiful St. Croix. The
Aquaculture Program operates twelve research-scale systems (six
aquaponic
and six greenwater) as well as commercial-scale aquaponic and greenwater
systems, a greenwater demonstration system with an associated vegetable
garden, a fry sex-reversal system, a recirculating system for fingerling
rearing and a purge system. The program annually produces about 20,000
lbs.
of tilapia and more than 1,000 cases of vegetables.
Cost - This course will cost $790 for instruction, course materials,
graduation banquet and a sailing trip to Buck Island National Park for a
day
of snorkeling amid spectacular coral reefs. Daily dorm rooms are $35
(double) or $50 (single) and are available for 8 nights (June 24-July
2).
Meals cost $5-10 each at the school cafeteria. Airfare to St. Croix,
USVI is
not included in the registration fee and should be arranged separately
by
each individual.
Registration - Register by contacting Dr. James Rakocy at the address
below.
Please provide name, address, telephone and fax numbers, e-mail address
and
a brief description of background and experience with tilapia production
and/or hydroponics. Enrollment is limited. A $300 deposit, payable to
the
University of the Virgin Islands, is necessary by June 1, 2000. No
refunds
will be made for cancellation after June 15. The balance will be due the
first day of class.
For more information and to register contact Dr. James Rakocy, RR 2, Box
10,000, Kingshill, VI 00850, Phone: 340-692-4020, E-mail:
jrakocy@uvi.edu
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| Message 9 |
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Subject: Re: tanks
From: "Sam Levy"
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 07:45:01 PST
the color won't matter except, if your tank is above ground & exposed to
light you'll sprout a lot more algae on the walls of a white tank than on a
black one. also, checkthat it's uv stabilized (i.e. that it was meant to
stand outside in the sun).
sam
>
>will it make any difference if I use a clear ie white plastic tank for
>tilapia as opposed to a solid black tank?
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| Message 10 |
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Subject: tilapia
From: "timjohanns"
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 09:57:23 -0800
I am from north central Iowa near the Minnesota border and was wondering if
there is anyone fairly close that could sell me a pair of tilapia to breed
in my aquarium, or sell me some fry to raise up for trnsfer into my larger
system later, I don't mind traveling. Anyone?
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| Message 11 |
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Subject: Fw: [IR-L] Algae in hydroponics
From: "Clem Wehner"
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 08:04:21 -0800
Hello friends at Aquaponics,
Maybe you can help Mauricio with this problem.
Regards,
Clem Wehner
cww@pacificcoast.net
-------------------------- 0 --------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: Mauricio Salamanca
To:
Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2000 2:20 PM
Subject: [IR-L] Algae in hydroponics
> I am wondering if anyone has been able to get rid of blue algae in NFT (or
> the like) hydroponic systems.
>
> If so how ? We grow lettuce so it has to be friendly to it. Our copper
> level is already high (0.06 ppm).
> Saludos,
> Mauricio Salamanca
> Cornell University
> 607 255 1800 of
> 607 266 7612 home
> 600 Warren Rd. 3-2C
> Ithaca N.Y.14850
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| Message 12 |
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Subject: Re: tanks
From: Ronald Polka
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 09:35:12 -0700
At 09:12 PM 3/14/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>will it make any difference if I use a clear ie white plastic tank for
>tilapia as opposed to a solid black tank? The one I have is a 1050 gallon
>tank normally used as water tanks for farming chemical applications. It's
>new and is totally enclosed on top with a dome-like structure and a hole,
>the top could be cut off without compromising the tanks integrity and cost
>248.00 dimensions are 7'x 4' tall
>
After several months of operation the tank color will be of little
consequence. Initially the the Tilapia will be a little more skittish in a
light colored tank. I have seen this behavior in clean blue gel coated
fiberglass tanks. But after a short time when algae grows on the walls and
floor the fish seem less stressed because they are not as visible as they
once were. Algae growth on the walls will provide a little extra food for
the tilapia to munch on. I would be careful about the details of removing
the top of the tank. All large tanks have a means of strengthening the top
designed into them, ie the horizontal or rolled lip that can be seen on the
top of the wall.
Ron Polka
Southwest Technology Development Institute
New Mexico State University
Box 30001, Dept 3SOL
Las Cruces, NM 88003
rpolka@nmsu.edu
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| Message 13 |
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Subject: aqua/bio ponics
From: "timjohanns"
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 11:16:15 -0800
Will this tilapia, bioponic concept work for the average shmuck who wants to
feed a family of say 4-6 people from their backyard greenhouse or southern
exposure lean-to, providing fish and veggies on a constant basis, even daily
, once set-up and operating of course, or is this concept mainly for intense
production/ commercial applications ? or both? Anyone?
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| Message 14 |
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Subject: Re: wrigglers
From: "bennett"
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 12:47:27 -0500
>There's a really good answer to this one. The value of the worms in $/#
>is higher than the value of the tilapia you can produce with them. So
>
Is this true for the manure worms? If so, please tell
me where one can sell them for more than tilapia.
Last night in Krogers I saw frozen tilapia fillets for
sale for $0.41 per ounce, that's $6.56 per pound!
I've still not been able to find any laws on whether
or not tilapia, or other home raised, non-native to
the USA fish, is permitted to be sold in farmers'
markets.
D.Bennett
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| Message 15 |
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Subject: Re: wrigglers
From: "vpage"
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 10:53:58 -0700
Because of the labour involved and becuse red worms are worth more as a
crop than feed costs. V
----- Original Message -----
From: timjohanns
To: aquaponics
Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2000 10:27 PM
Subject: wrigglers
> OK, I realize someone else probably thought of this already so please
> enlighten me. Why don't people raising tilapia feed them red wrigglers if
> they are 70% protien as opposed to 40% fish food, are they not complete
> protiens or what am I missing here, worms are free, and grow prolifically
on
> greenhouse scraps, too perfect world?
>
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| Message 16 |
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Subject: Re: tanks
From: "vpage"
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 10:55:22 -0700
a clear tank helps keep the water warmer-good
a clear tank promotes the growth of green-tilapia love it
----- Original Message -----
From: timjohanns
To: aquaponics
Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2000 10:12 PM
Subject: tanks
> will it make any difference if I use a clear ie white plastic tank for
> tilapia as opposed to a solid black tank? The one I have is a 1050 gallon
> tank normally used as water tanks for farming chemical applications. It's
> new and is totally enclosed on top with a dome-like structure and a hole,
> the top could be cut off without compromising the tanks integrity and cost
> 248.00 dimensions are 7'x 4' tall
>
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| Message 17 |
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Subject: wriggler thoughts
From: "timjohanns"
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 11:54:15 -0800
The idea I had with wrigglers or what ever kind of worms etc, was that they
eat your clippings, suckers, waste etc. and would therefore, be somewhat
free, excluding triple-net costs, and could be fed to the trout, in light
of the omnivours/tilapia thing, or yes, sold per pound, or thrown to the
compost pile/garden whatever, the idea being to potentiate the systems
waste/by-products to a usable product, feed the clippings etc. to marron,
yabbies they like warm water systems like the tilapia? I'm pretty sure I
didn't just think of this, so does it work like this or am I being too
perfect world here?
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Subject: reply to vpage tank reply
From: "timjohanns"
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 12:02:03 -0800
you said clear tanks help keep water warmer did you mean black tanks do that
or how do clear tanks help maintain water temp?
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Subject: Re: wrigglers
From: Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 13:26:37 -0500
> Is this true for the manure worms? If so, please tell
> me where one can sell them for more than tilapia.
I believe Jim Sealey is our vermiculture guy, perhaps he'll jump in and
comment.
Adriana
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Subject: Re: wrigglers
From: Joe_Myers@mail.mda.state.mo.us
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 14:07:58 -0600
>There's a really good answer to this one=2E The value of the worms in=
$/#
>is higher than the value of the tilapia you can produce with them=2E =
So
>
Is this true for the manure worms? If so, please tell
me where one can sell them for more than tilapia=2E
Last night in Krogers I saw frozen tilapia fillets for
sale for $0=2E41 per ounce, that's $6=2E56 per pound!
I've still not been able to find any laws on whether
or not tilapia, or other home raised, non-native to
the USA fish, is permitted to be sold in farmers'
markets=2E
D=2EBennett
Tilapia fillets have a greater degree of value added to them than live
worms=2E Compare the price/ unit of weight of live tilapia you receive=
to
the price/ unit of weight of live worms you could receive=2E I got a q=
uote
from a worm farmer here in Missouri at red wigglers $0=2E75/3 doz (and =
I'll
bet he could get more)=2E How much does three dozen weigh? I'll bet y=
ou'll
find the worms are worth more than the fish=2E It will also take more =
than
one pound of worms to make one pound of fish=2E
Feeding excessive protein really does you more harm, especially in a re=
circ
system=2E Aside from being expensive, your using protein to fulfill en=
ergy
requirements of the tilapia=2E You just want to meet the protein requi=
rement
and use less expensive carbohydrates and lipids to fulfill dietary ener=
gy
requirements=2E Any excess protein is going to mean excess ammonia in =
your
system=2E I doubt worms would meet all nutritional requirements for yo=
ur
fish=2E
Joe
=A1!=A1!=A1!=A1!=A1!=A1!=A1!=A1!=A1!=A1!=A1!=A1!=A1!=A1!=A1!=A1!=A1!=A1=
!=A1!=A1!=A1!=A1!=A1!=A1!=A1!=A1!=A1!=A1!=A1!=A1!=A1!=A1!=A1!=A1
Joseph J=2E Myers
Aquaculture Specialist
Missouri Department of Agriculture
1616 Missouri Blvd
PO Box 630
Jefferson City MO 65102-0630 USA
Joe_Myers@mail=2Emda=2Estate=2Emo=2Eus
(573) 526-6666
1-800-419-9139 AQUA TOLL-FREE
(573) 751-2868 FAX
=A1!=A1!=A1!=A1!=A1!=A1!=A1!=A1!=A1!=A1!=A1!=A1!=A1!=A1!=A1!=A1!=A1!=A1=
!=A1!=A1!=A1!=A1!=A1!=A1!=A1!=A1!=A1!=A1!=A1!=A1!=A1!=A1!=A1!=A1=
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Subject: mealworms
From: "Peter D. Rau"
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 14:27:48 -0600
Has anyone given mealworms a try? They are easy to culture and if I remember
right they contain 15 of 16 elements contained in animal tissue. They digest
easily and the only waste product is the outer hard case. I've used them to
feed my larger fish in the aquarium trade for many years.
Maybe this is a solution?
Peter D. Rau
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Subject: anyone doing aquaponics within 100 miles of New Orleans
From: "Peter D. Rau"
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 14:30:43 -0600
I'm looking for someone to visit who is doing aquaponics within 100 miles of New
Orleans. Anyone out there?
Peter D. Rau
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Subject: Fish sales at farmers' markets
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 14:50:31 -0600
At 12:47 PM 03/15/2000 -0500, Donna wrote:
> I've still not been able to find any laws on whether
>or not tilapia, or other home raised, non-native to
>the USA fish, is permitted to be sold in farmers'
>markets.
>
Donna - I don't know what state you're located in, but I'd think if you are
attempting to sell processed fish, as in fillets or even just "gutted and
gilled" you would be governed by the county health inspectors and probably
FDA/USDA regulations. "Processed" anything at a farmers market will come
under scrutiny, and as I mentioned on the market-farming list, the only time
we sold at the market was live fish, not processed.
By the same token, the regulations regarding live sales, especially from the
farm, are very lenient. Joe Myers, our MO state aquaculture specialist is
on the list, and I hope he'll have some comments on this thread.
Paula
S&S Aqua Farm, http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
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Subject: AD (sort of), was Re: tanks
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 14:56:23 -0600
At 09:35 AM 03/15/2000 -0700, Ron wrote:
>At 09:12 PM 3/14/2000 -0800, Tim wrote:
It's
>>new and is totally enclosed on top with a dome-like structure and a hole,
>>the top could be cut off without compromising the tanks integrity and cost
>>248.00 dimensions are 7'x 4' tall
>>
I would be careful about the details of removing
>the top of the tank. All large tanks have a means of strengthening the top
>designed into them, ie the horizontal or rolled lip that can be seen on the
>top of the wall.
We'd agree with Ron - you'll have to be careful to maintain structural
integrity if you're going to modify the tank. We did use a cut-down tank
for our pilot set-up, but then again, we bought it at a flea market for $50.
For the price you're paying, you might want to look at the Polytank pages to
look at tanks specifically designed for aquaculture operations. And since
it's "AD" day, I'll remind you that we can probably save you some over their
retail prices.
Their web site is:
http://www.polydome.com/polytank.html
Paula
S&S Aqua Farm, http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
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Subject: what the f......
From: "timjohanns"
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 14:54:10 -0800
So what's wilbur doing drowning the cat and taking pictures? sick bastard!!!
He's obviously not drinking enough, I have a remedy for that.... hard..cider
:)
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Subject: Re: reply to vpage tank reply
From: "vpage"
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 14:02:45 -0700
sorry , I was asuming sun shining on them-greenhouse. Inside a building I
imagine that there is no difference.
----- Original Message -----
From: timjohanns
To: aquaponics
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2000 1:02 PM
Subject: reply to vpage tank reply
> you said clear tanks help keep water warmer did you mean black tanks do
that
> or how do clear tanks help maintain water temp?
>
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Subject: Re: wriggler thoughts
From: "vpage"
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 14:05:05 -0700
My tilapia loved eating the worms. The worms were less happy with the fecal
waste of tilapia until I added newspaper. It has the makings of a perfect
cycle..V
----- Original Message -----
From: timjohanns
To: aquaponics
>
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Subject: Re: Fish sales at farmers' markets
From: tvoivozhd
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 17:17:08 -0500
Tvoivozhd---an old friend of mine (if he is still alive, he is very old), used
to use a thrownet to collect tilapia from phosphate mine trenches---sold them
alive and flapping to grateful customers (about half on credit) to the black
community in a number of towns for fifty cents a pound---that would translate to
a lot more thirty years later.
He lined his pickup box with canvas and wet weeds---tilapia will stay alive a
long time if kept wet. They should sell well at any Farmers Market---use a
sheet of builder's plastic and convert a pickup or trailer into a tank---a small
12-volt compressor for an aerator.
S & S Aqua Farm wrote:
> At 12:47 PM 03/15/2000 -0500, Donna wrote:
>
> > I've still not been able to find any laws on whether
> >or not tilapia, or other home raised, non-native to
> >the USA fish, is permitted to be sold in farmers'
> >markets.
> >
> Donna - I don't know what state you're located in, but I'd think if you are
> attempting to sell processed fish, as in fillets or even just "gutted and
> gilled" you would be governed by the county health inspectors and probably
> FDA/USDA regulations. "Processed" anything at a farmers market will come
> under scrutiny, and as I mentioned on the market-farming list, the only time
> we sold at the market was live fish, not processed.
>
> By the same token, the regulations regarding live sales, especially from the
> farm, are very lenient. Joe Myers, our MO state aquaculture specialist is
> on the list, and I hope he'll have some comments on this thread.
>
> Paula
> S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO 65775 417-256-5124
> Web page http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
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Subject: Re: tanks
From: Bertmcl
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 16:46:35 EST
Black tanks will hold more heat, my experience with white is that the fish do
a lot more jumping around when you come in to feed and do your other duties,
I don't know that this is a problem.
Bert
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Subject: Re: Fish sales at farmers' markets
From: Bertmcl
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 17:03:35 EST
In Virginia Live TILAPIA may only be sold to someone with a permit and
records have to be maintained, stating how many fish were sold and to whom.
This info is required b-4 permit renewal.
Bert
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Subject: Re: aqua/bio ponics
From: "Jay Myers"
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 20:21:36 -0600
Well bioman ---
I can say, after running only a few months - you better be hungry. Once
things get rocking you just couldn't eat all you can grow. The fish are a
little slow, but once they're ready.....
Just build the contraption like Tom & Paula tell you to and it'll work.
Walk in their footprints and you'll be sheltered from lots of trial and
error.
Jay
Panama City Beach, Fl.
>Will this tilapia, bioponic concept work for the average shmuck who wants
to
>feed a family of say 4-6 people from their backyard greenhouse or southern
>exposure lean-to, providing fish and veggies on a constant basis, even
daily
>, once set-up and operating of course, or is this concept mainly for
intense
>production/ commercial applications ? or both? Anyone?
>
>
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Subject: Talapia prices
From: "Jay Myers"
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 20:26:40 -0600
>Last night in Krogers I saw frozen tilapia fillets for
>sale for $0.41 per ounce, that's $6.56 per pound!
> D.Bennett
Just for info--at our Super Wal-Mart filets are down to $3.99/lb. for lent.
Regular price is $4.83/lb. Publix market here sells for $5.59/lb.
Jay
Panama City Beach, Fl.
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Subject: advice on tanks
From: "bennett"
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 22:58:40 -0500
I've been offered a very large quantity of small plastic tubs/tanks.
These containers hold about 22-24 gallons, have rounded bottoms, are long
and only about 10 - 12 inches deep. Do you think they would acceptable to
start my first mini trial aquaponic system? These things are free and
until I can prove to some skeptics around here :-) that the system will
work, I can't get money to do the whole thing like it should be done. If
these little tanks will 'prove' themselves, then.......
D.Bennett
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Subject: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Tue 03/14/00
From: DAVEINBHAM
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 22:59:15 EST
In a message dated 03/15/2000 12:04:46 AM Central Standard Time,
aquaponics-digest-request@townsqr.com writes:
<<
Turtles taste great and are served in gourmet eateries in many parts of the
country, especially in the South. The problem with this is that the turtles
are all taken from the wild and that is decreasing their populations
severely in many places. Thus, the importance of Tims work. I don't recall
why Bennett is interested, but, I am trying to get information to pass on to
subsistance farmers to allow them to raise them for their families.
melvin landers >>
******************************************************************************
*********
Hi Melvin,
The first part of your reply I can't argue with--- Turtles taste great !!
However, I think you will find that harvests of wild turtles in the USA has
been declining since the depression. It is a hell of a lot of work to clean a
turtle and labor is expensive. Labor was bad cheap in the '30's and turtles
were known in my grandparents days here in the South as " Hoover Chickens."
These days the best place I know to find turtle on the menu is Mexico,
Panama, Nicaragua & Surinam-- Which are still rather poor countries where
people will work long hours cleaning turtles for rather low wages.
Regards,
Dave Holder
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Subject: Re: wrigglers
From: "Sam Levy"
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 20:01:52 PST
>Last night in Krogers I saw frozen tilapia fillets for
>sale for $0.41 per ounce, that's $6.56 per pound!
> D.Bennett
>
you saw the final sale price to the consumer--not the price the farm was
paid for growing the fish. the farm could have easily recieved 1/3 of the
the final sale price
sam
>
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Subject: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Tue 03/14/00
From: "beacnhrt"
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 23:49:45 -0600
Thanks Dave. I'm afraid I was thinking of my childhood days and thinking
that things had't changed much since then. I am continually making this same
mistake. There was still a good amount of turtle and crawdads being injested
back then in the 50's.
melvin landers
-----Original Message-----
From: DAVEINBHAM
To: aquaponics@townsqr.com
Date: Wednesday, March 15, 2000 9:47 PM
Subject: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Tue 03/14/00
>In a message dated 03/15/2000 12:04:46 AM Central Standard Time,
>aquaponics-digest-request@townsqr.com writes:
>
><<
> Turtles taste great and are served in gourmet eateries in many parts of
the
> country, especially in the South. The problem with this is that the
turtles
> are all taken from the wild and that is decreasing their populations
> severely in many places. Thus, the importance of Tims work. I don't recall
> why Bennett is interested, but, I am trying to get information to pass on
to
> subsistance farmers to allow them to raise them for their families.
>
> melvin landers >>
>***************************************************************************
***
>*********
>Hi Melvin,
>The first part of your reply I can't argue with--- Turtles taste great !!
>However, I think you will find that harvests of wild turtles in the USA has
>been declining since the depression. It is a hell of a lot of work to clean
a
>turtle and labor is expensive. Labor was bad cheap in the '30's and turtles
>were known in my grandparents days here in the South as " Hoover Chickens."
>These days the best place I know to find turtle on the menu is Mexico,
>Panama, Nicaragua & Surinam-- Which are still rather poor countries where
>people will work long hours cleaning turtles for rather low wages.
>Regards,
>Dave Holder
>
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