Aquaponics Digest - Mon 03/27/00
Message 1: Re: Oxygen Cone
from Chris Weaver
Message 2: Re: Old Car Radiators Cool Off House
from John.Hite@usa.alcatel.com (John Hite)
Message 3: Re: Oxygen Cone
from "Sam Levy"
Message 4: RE: Well on my way to becoming a fish farmer
from "Sam Levy"
Message 5: RE: Well on my way to becoming a fish farmer
from "Ron Brooks"
Message 6: RE: Well on my way to becoming a fish farmer
from khale@ballistic.com
Message 7: RE: Well on my way to becoming a fish farmer
from "Ron Brooks"
Message 8: RE: Well on my way to becoming a fish farmer
from khale@ballistic.com
Message 9: Re: Duckweed feeds
from "TGTX"
Message 10: Re: Old Car Radiators Cool Off House
from "TGTX"
Message 11: Re: Old Car Radiators Cool Off House
from "TGTX"
Message 12: Re: Old Car Radiators Cool Off House
from "Frank Stancato"
Message 13: Re: Belt feeders, etc.
from "Steve"
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| Message 1 |
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Subject: Re: Oxygen Cone
From: Chris Weaver
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 06:30:28 -0500
Jay:
There is an enterprising farmer near up here that took some old sheets
of stainless steel and had them rolled and mig welded into oxygen
cones. I bought one of them off of him for about 1/3 of what they go
for in Aquatic Ecosystems. It is about 7 feet tall and has a 3" inlet
and outlet. It can handle up to 400 gpm. I haven't been able to fully
test it yet as I have not been able to afford the pump that I need to
run the 350 gpm that I want to put through mine. Currently, I am in a
dilemma. I am using L.H.O.'s on my tanks and they are about 60%
efficient at the levels that I am currently using. In order to run the
350 gpm into the oxygen cone, I would need a 7 hp pump running at about
5 hp of electrical usage. That 5 hp would result in about U.S. $210 a
month to run. For $210, I could double the amount of oxygen entering my
L.H.O.'s (I have liquid O2) and not have to make the capital
improvements of buying the oxygen cones and 7 hp pumps. There are also
tax implications as well. Capital purchases have to be depreciated over
time whereas an increase in usage of O2 would be an immediate expense.
Any ways I am babbling on now.
Sincerely,
Chris Weaver
Jay Myers wrote:
> Chris Weaver
>
> Wondered if you have had any success with a homebuilt O2 cone?
>
> Jay Myers
> Panama City Beach, Fl.
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| Message 2 |
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Subject: Re: Old Car Radiators Cool Off House
From: John.Hite@usa.alcatel.com (John Hite)
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 08:19:15 -0600
This may be straying off topic a bit but we have been discussing cooling
water via refrigeration or evaporative cooling so I will go ahead with
this.
Glad that worked for him but it won't work for most of us. The article
didn't state the temperature of his well water but we can assume that it is
several degrees lower than the 53 degree temp the air is chilled to. Here
in north Texas I have had wells from 134 to 500 feet deep and the
temperature is usually around 70 degrees. I could chill my air to about 75
degrees and maybe the house with a massive (roaring) air flow. However it
would not be comfortable as no humidity would be removed from the air. AC
evaporator coils operate at around 40F (~4C) will condenses out the
humidity.
However if one has cool ground water available to run thru a heat exchanger
it could allow a refrigeration or AC unit to use a little less electricity
than an air cooled condensing coil.
john hite
>
>DICKINSON, N.D. (AP)-
>
>"If one radiator can cool a car engine, why can't several cool a house?
>Well, they can, says retired farmer George Heiser. Heiser strung three
>$5.00 radiators together and hooked them up to a garden hose from his
>85-foot well. He then built a box on top of the homemade cooler and
>installed an old attic fan at the end. Prairie air as hot as 105 degrees
is
>sucked in from the outside and enters the house cooled to 53 degrees,
Heiser
>said. His total investment was $40. "I'll put it up against any air
>conditioner", said Heiser. "We haven't used our air conditioner once this
>summer".
>
>Necessity is a Mother...
>
>Ted
>
>
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| Message 3 |
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Subject: Re: Oxygen Cone
From: "Sam Levy"
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 07:18:57 PST
It is about 7 feet tall and has a 3" inlet
>and outlet. It can handle up to 400 gpm. Currently, I am in a
>dilemma. I am using L.H.O.'s on my tanks and they are about 60%
>efficient at the levels that I am currently using. In order to run the
>350 gpm into the oxygen cone, I would need a 7 hp pump running at about
>5 hp of electrical usage. That 5 hp would result in about U.S. $210 a
>month to run. For $210, I could double the amount of oxygen entering my
>L.H.O.'s (I have liquid O2) and not have to make the capital
>improvements of buying the oxygen cones and 7 hp pumps. There are also
>tax implications as well. Capital purchases have to be depreciated over
>time whereas an increase in usage of O2 would be an immediate expense.
>
>Any ways I am babbling on now.
>
>Sincerely,
>Chris Weaver
>
chris--
are your lho's working at their peak efficiency? i've been considering them
for a while and have noticed manufacturer claims of 90-95%.
60% is about the level "michigan columns" operate at--but they were designed
with nitrogen stripping in mind & the extra oxygenation as a bonus
if you go over to the cone, you might want to try to get a hold of a
saturometer just to see what it does to your tgp.
just a few thoughts.
sam
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| Message 4 |
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Subject: RE: Well on my way to becoming a fish farmer
From: "Sam Levy"
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 07:06:26 PST
>Well I have total turnover of all the tanks every 2.5 hours.
>One of the tests I was unable to do was O2 due to the reagents not working
>,
>I guess I should have ordered new , the old stuff must have been to old.
>
>Ph was 7.4
>ammonia 0
>Nitrate 1
>nitrite .5
>
>I did notice that the water coming out of the biofilter yesterday was quite
>foul when I started to break the system down. So I think it was starting to
>crash
>
>Ron
ron--
was the 50% water you exchanged from an outside surface source? was it
pumped (ted took the word supersaturation right out of my mouth--& you can
get it anytime there's a leak on the intake side of a pump)?
did something happen to disturb settled solids (i.e. could h2s have been
released into the system--it too can cause alot of damage and not leave much
in the way of tracks)?
going back to the earlier question of a temporary outage . . .you mentioned
that the clocks were still working. if you meant timers, do any of them
have back-up springs (some timers come with springs or other mechanism for
keeping time for a period under an outage--so that short outages wont
require re-setting)?
just a few more thoughts
sam
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| Message 5 |
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Subject: RE: Well on my way to becoming a fish farmer
From: "Ron Brooks"
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 12:55:46 -0500
Well I have a networked computer out in the greenhouse office , so if the
power goes out you have to enter the log in password to restart windows,
also I have a cheap led Wal-Mart electrical clock in the office also.
It is possible that I stirred up sediment , but during the water change I
siphoned the bottom of the tank to clean it. The water I use for water
changes is from one of the big tanks I normally keep empty and running with
air blowers. I normally then will make up water with city water and
thiosulfate and run it for a week in the tank to get it the same temp as the
rest of the tanks. I normally only do water changes once a week. So this
more than suffices.
the weird thing is I noticed another tank of breeders ( 300 gallons with the
max of 14 pounds in fish ) in trouble last night. the fish were gulping at
the top of the water . So I bypassed the biofilter and splashed the water
back in to the tank and this morning the fish are still gulping and getting
a red tinge to them. Now this tank is spotless , is getting plenty of air as
I added several pumps to splash water
So I am at a loss to what is going on . This biofilter is only 4 months
along as I clean them between occupants
Ron
-> -----Original Message-----
-> From: aquaponics
-> [mailto:aquaponics]On Behalf Of Sam Levy
-> Sent: Monday, March 27, 2000 10:06 AM
-> To: aquaponics@townsqr.com
-> Subject: RE: Well on my way to becoming a fish farmer
->
->
->
->
-> >Well I have total turnover of all the tanks every 2.5 hours.
-> >One of the tests I was unable to do was O2 due to the reagents
-> not working
-> >,
-> >I guess I should have ordered new , the old stuff must have been to old.
-> >
-> >Ph was 7.4
-> >ammonia 0
-> >Nitrate 1
-> >nitrite .5
-> >
-> >I did notice that the water coming out of the biofilter
-> yesterday was quite
-> >foul when I started to break the system down. So I think it was
-> starting to
-> >crash
-> >
-> >Ron
->
->
-> ron--
->
-> was the 50% water you exchanged from an outside surface source? was it
-> pumped (ted took the word supersaturation right out of my
-> mouth--& you can
-> get it anytime there's a leak on the intake side of a pump)?
->
-> did something happen to disturb settled solids (i.e. could h2s have been
-> released into the system--it too can cause alot of damage and
-> not leave much
-> in the way of tracks)?
->
-> going back to the earlier question of a temporary outage . .
-> .you mentioned
-> that the clocks were still working. if you meant timers, do any of them
-> have back-up springs (some timers come with springs or other
-> mechanism for
-> keeping time for a period under an outage--so that short outages wont
-> require re-setting)?
->
-> just a few more thoughts
->
-> sam
-> ______________________________________________________
-> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
->
->
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| Message 6 |
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Subject: RE: Well on my way to becoming a fish farmer
From: khale@ballistic.com
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 12:49:46 -0600
Ron what is your water temp and do you have natural sun light in your
location? Ken
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| Message 7 |
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Subject: RE: Well on my way to becoming a fish farmer
From: "Ron Brooks"
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 14:16:13 -0500
The breeder tanks get no direct sun , and the water temp is 75
Ron
-> -----Original Message-----
-> From: aquaponics
-> [mailto:aquaponics]On Behalf Of khale@ballistic.com
-> Sent: Monday, March 27, 2000 1:50 PM
-> To: aquaponics@townsqr.com
-> Subject: RE: Well on my way to becoming a fish farmer
->
->
-> Ron what is your water temp and do you have natural sun light in your
-> location? Ken
->
->
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| Message 8 |
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Subject: RE: Well on my way to becoming a fish farmer
From: khale@ballistic.com
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 14:26:57 -0600
Sorry Ron thought I could help but I guess not. Ken
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| Message 9 |
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Subject: Re: Duckweed feeds
From: "TGTX"
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 15:12:26 -0600
Tony writes:
>but i have found Azolla a little more
> sensitive to grow than Duckweed although the yield per area unit is much
> higher than Duckweed.
> I have mixed Duckweed/Azolla growing quite well.
That mixture sounds interesting to me. Hmmm......you've foundAzolla growth
is higher than duckweed? Can you give a number on Azolla growth/yield in
lbs/sq.ft/month or something along those lines?
Ted
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| Message 10 |
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Subject: Re: Old Car Radiators Cool Off House
From: "TGTX"
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 16:10:14 -0600
John wrote:
>Here
> in north Texas I have had wells from 134 to 500 feet deep and the
> temperature is usually around 70 degrees. I could chill my air to about 75
> degrees and maybe the house with a massive (roaring) air flow. However it
> would not be comfortable as no humidity would be removed from the air. AC
> evaporator coils operate at around 40F (~4C) will condenses out the
> humidity.
>
I was thinking along the lines of cooling the greenhouses that we grow fish
in. Since many of us may use evaporative coolers in such greenhouses, I was
sharing that article to show folks that there may be alternatives to that
traditional greenhouse cooling technology.....providing you have the well
facilities, etc....... I was not making a suggestion that we try to cool
our residences by this means, although I will say that a 75 degree F blast
of humid air from such a radiator will give more sensible comfort than 95
degree F outside air moving at the same speed and having the same
humidity....Wouldn't you agree?
Victor Olgyay came up with a so-called "Bioclimatic Chart" that mapped out a
"comfort zone". Although it is somewhat subjective, this seems to be fairly
agreeable to most folks....that zone is a somewhat oval shaped area on a
graph of temperature plotted against relative humidity. 80% humidity at 72
degrees temp is on the edge of the comfort zone, but inside it (that would
be just fine for me, in fact a little chilly with a considerable wind speed,
but some of our less hardy Northern Americans brethren and cistern might
wilt at that humidity no matter what the temperature)....while 80% humidity
at 80 degrees temp is outside of that zone...so a few degrees air temp with
sufficient air movement can make a difference.
At any rate, I was thinking of greenhouse coolers and not necessarily home
cooling when I posted the article.
> However if one has cool ground water available to run thru a heat
exchanger
> it could allow a refrigeration or AC unit to use a little less electricity
> than an air cooled condensing coil.
>
> john hite
Right-O, there John, and that is something I would highly recommend for the
home owner with electrical air conditioning in Texas. You don't even need a
water well to reap the benefits of such a earth-cooled heat pump system.
The July/August 1996 issue of "This Old House" Magazine had a basic article
on installing such a system in a trench near the house. The article reports
a payback period of 3 to 5 years against utility costs. In the area of
Austin, Texas, you can contact Action Mechanical Services, Inc. about ground
based heat pumps for heating and cooling homes...They claim you can save up
to 60% over standard systems with a "water furnace system"...which is
totally off topic, but there it is...... Their phone number is
512-836-2222.
Anyway, back to the car radiators....again, for our greenhouses where we
kinda want the humidity to be high for the sake of the plants growing
inside....now, what if there were a way to increase the cooling effect using
such a car radiator system, but without increasing energy costs? Would that
interest anyone out there?
Here is another weird idea....consider the source( yours truly), but
consider it, anyway...
Oscar Blomgren patented a means of electrostatic cooling...He claims it
increases the efficiency of radiative cooling by placing the radiator in a
high voltage (30 to 60 kV), but very low current (microamperes)
electrostatic field. For example, the power supply with a voltage of
30,000 volts draws a current in the range of 200 microamps resulting in a
power requirement of 6 watts....You could run this thing off of a PV panel,
I guess..ask Marc Nameth.....
The electrostatic probes placed in front of the radiator are placed at such
a distance that arcing does not take place.....with the possible exception
of the occasional entrained insect...which has further greenhouse pest
management implications...heh..heh.... The strong electrostatic field, so
Mr. Blomgren claims, results in a greatly increased rate of heat transfer
through the radiator surface to the heat exchange fluid. Quoting Mr.
Blomgren's patent "The mechanism that enables the electrostatic field to
cool a surface is not fully understood, but it is believed that the
electrostatic field breaks the skin of insulating molecules that normally
adheres to the surface of the cooling tubes. This skin of molecules is not
normally removed by the flow of air drawn to the fan, and when present,
reduces the transfer of heat away from the tube walls...The high intensity
electrostatic field near the tips of the electrodes creates corona, which
ionizes some of the molecules in the air. Ions and electrons are
accelerated toward the cooling tubes (since they are grounded). The
bombarding ions disturb or condition the boundary layer to increase
materially the coefficient of heat transfer"
And if that ain't weird enough for you.....let's get Marc Nameth to coat
this radiator contraption with a some kind of phosphor and watch it glow
like a giant TV screen...picture a greenhouse wall with a soft eerie glow at
night, attracting insects to be zapped by the electrostatic field and
generating lots of cool air...... or not....;)
Gotta run.
Ted
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| Message 11 |
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Subject: Re: Old Car Radiators Cool Off House
From: "TGTX"
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 18:24:28 -0600
>
> However if one has cool ground water available to run thru a heat
exchanger
> it could allow a refrigeration or AC unit to use a little less electricity
> than an air cooled condensing coil.
>
> john hite
Here's more info on using ground heat/coolth in air conditioning systems
http://www.iaheatpump.org/lake.html
Ted
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| Message 12 |
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Subject: Re: Old Car Radiators Cool Off House
From: "Frank Stancato"
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 20:47:16 -0500
John, what if you hooked up the Old Car Radiators that are cooled from your
well water into your air handling ducts or if you do not use ducts, you
could probably make up some for the purpose of this method.
1) add an Old Car Radiator to the cold air flow. Since the air coming off
the air conditioner will be colder(?) than the well water, this will warm
the air slightly decreasing the water content of the air.
2) take the well water that ran through the Old Car Radiator in the flow of
the cold air and route it through another Old Car Radiators (in series) in
the warm air portion of the ductwork (before it goes into the air
conditioner. Have the Old Car Radiators run in series with the coldest water
being closest to the air conditioner and the warmest further away. What this
should do is drop the air temperature a few degrees (3 - 8 degrees F,
hopefully) making the air heavier or more moisture laden. This moisture
laden air when hitting the cold fin of the air conditioner will drop the
water out of the air.
Bases on information about using heatpipe (http://www.heatpipe.com/) this
should drop the humidity level enough so that you will not have to drop the
temperature as much. The drier air will allow the plants to transpire(sp?)
enough water to keep them cool.
Just a thought.
Frank
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Hite"
To:
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2000 9:19 AM
Subject: Re: Old Car Radiators Cool Off House
> Glad that worked for him but it won't work for most of us. The article
> didn't state the temperature of his well water but we can assume that it
is
> several degrees lower than the 53 degree temp the air is chilled to. Here
> in north Texas I have had wells from 134 to 500 feet deep and the
> temperature is usually around 70 degrees. I could chill my air to about 75
> degrees and maybe the house with a massive (roaring) air flow. However it
> would not be comfortable as no humidity would be removed from the air. AC
> evaporator coils operate at around 40F (~4C) will condenses out the
> humidity.
>
> However if one has cool ground water available to run thru a heat
exchanger
> it could allow a refrigeration or AC unit to use a little less electricity
> than an air cooled condensing coil.
>
> john hite
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| Message 13 |
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Subject: Re: Belt feeders, etc.
From: "Steve"
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 22:52:09 -0600
Hi Sam,
Thanks for your response.
I'm going to show my ignorance again. I bought a demand feeder (still have
it) almost 2 years ago to use in my pond (small pond...only 1/4 - 1/3 acre).
Couldn't see how the fish would operate it and never used it. (In my
self-defense though, I had a lot of problems with the pond at that time.)
I have been thinking about trying to get it operating in the pond. I think I
am a little "space-restricted" to try it in my tanks. I'll have to get that
thing out and take a look at it.
I think I have found the electric feeder that I want though. It is suppose
to be able to handle 2# of food a day. (Remember, I just want this as a
supplemental source because I don't have the time to feed these guys as I
should. I will still be feeding them 2X/day personally.) Still thinking
about this though.
I did receive today some watercress sprouts from a fellow one-list "friend".
I put these in a "cage" that is segregated from the fish to allow them (the
watercress) to grow and reproduce. Will, hopefully, use these as a
supplemental food source too.
Will post my results using the demand feeder and the electric feeder (if I
do indeed buy it).
Thanks again.......Steve
Take care thanks again.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sam Levy"
To:
Sent: Friday, March 24, 2000 11:12 PM
Subject: Re: Belt feeders, etc.
> steve--
>
> the feeder you need will depend on the size and load of your system.
> without knowing how much food you need to distribute/day, it's hard to
give
> you a specific answer.
>
> i've used belt-feeders for commercial style operations (the 12 hour ones
> w/supposed stainless steel clockwork mechanism that need to be hand
> "charged"). they tend to be inexpensive and reasonably accurate and easy
to
> use once you figure out how to support them above the tank. they also are
> not "controlable"--that is, if critical systems fail while you're not in
> attendance, the food will keep on dropping and demanding oxygen that the
> backup system may not be able to provide. i also recall a lot of trouble
> getting replacement parts when, after 9-15 months of use the mechanical
> failures started kicking in.
>
> i personally like demand feeders (if the grow unit is big enough)--again,
no
> "control"---although the fish will stop feeding after the situation has
> really deteriorated (the fish will continue to feed after the point that
> you, as the manager, would stop the feeding because your desire is to
> conserve the system resources to lower reliance on backup--and lower
> risk--while the fish will continue feeding until they've pretty much used
up
> the system resources). still, demand feeders are the best for allowing
the
> fish to eat when they want & the quantities that they want.
>
> electric feeders are totally controlable and quite a number are even
> reliable. you just have to make sure that you use them to their best
> aadvantage & have them set to stop feeding if there is "critical" system
> failure (generally, water, electricity, air/oxygen).
>
> there are a number of aquaculture supply houses-w/on-line catalogs & even
> the ability to order on-line. look them over & buy the one that you think
> is most suited to you--but buy only one for a start--to see if it's really
> the answer.
>
> sam
>
> >From: "Steve"
> >
> >sometimes, it is 12, 14 or even 18 hours between feedings of my Tilapia.
> >This includes feeding of the babies (which are suppose to be fed
> >6X/day....LOL.)
> >
> >This greatly reduces the growth of the fish (obviously). When I get home
> >and
> >feed them, they are just starving.
> >
> >Anyone have any experience with belt-feeders (or other means of feeding)
> >and
> >a good (reasonably priced) place to shop for them?
> >Thanks as usual.........Steve
> >
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
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