Aquaponics Digest - Sun 04/02/00
Message 1: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Sat 04/01/00
from Donald Bailey
Message 2: Re: Alaska
from Raul Vergueiro Martins
Message 3: Re: Alaska - aquaponics and digesters
from Crystalcreekaqua
Message 4: Re: Fish Diseases
from "Jay Myers"
Message 5: Re: Greenhouse
from Jenny Reed
Message 6: Re: Alaska
from "TGTX"
Message 7: Re: Greenhouse
from Jim Sealy Jr
Message 8: Re: Greenhouse
from "Loren"
Message 9: Re: red claw
from Crystalcreekaqua
Message 10: Re: red claw
from "TGTX"
Message 11: Re: Greenhouse
from Mike Miller
Message 12: Re: Greenhouse
from marc@aculink.net
Message 13: Re: Greenhouse
from Jenny Reed
Message 14: Re: Fish Diseases
from "TGTX"
Message 15: Potential feed link?
from Brian Gracia
Message 16: Re: Potential feed
from CAVM
Message 17: parasitic wasps / Black Soldier fly....Re: Potential feed
from William Evans
Message 18: Fish-raising effluent, was Re: Alaska
from S & S Aqua Farm
Message 19: Re: Alaska
from Raul Vergueiro Martins
Message 20: Re: Alaska - aquaponics and digesters
from Pete Peschang
Message 21: Re: Potential feed link?
from "Steve"
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| Message 1 |
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Subject: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Sat 04/01/00
From: Donald Bailey
Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2000 08:49:25 -0400
In Florida you should contact Ruth Francis-Floyd, extension
veterinarian, Department of Large Animal Clinical Science, Cooperative
Extension Service, Institute of Food and Agricultural Sciences,
University of Florida, Gainesville, 32611. Last May UF sponsored a fish
disease short course. Perhaps they will have it again and you can
diagnose your disease yourself in the future. In the present case, if
they do accept dead fish from farmers for analysis they will want the
freshest dead fish that you have. FedEx or drive it to their lab.
> Subject: Sick Fish
> From: "Jay Myers"
> Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 05:24:01 -0600
>
> Anyone have a suggestion as to where I can send samples of morts to help me
> figure out what is killing them ?
>
> Jay Myers
> Panama City Beach, Fl.
>
--
Donald S. Bailey
University of the Virgin Islands
Agriculture Experiment Station
Aquaculture Program
340-692-4038 - phone
340-692-4035 - fax
Visit our site at http://rps.uvi.edu/
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Subject: Re: Alaska
From: Raul Vergueiro Martins
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 16:10:25 +0700
bennett wrote:
> >In large size systems, where fish filets are produced, the wastes of this
> system,
> >should be dried and sterilized, and after this reprocessed into fish food.
> >.
> >If you have any question, please ask us.
> >
> I have a question. :-) How do you sterilize the fish [filet] wastes?
> I want to process it for poultry feed.
> The feces of my system will be feeding plants in my greenhouse.
> I want to use the offal from the slaughtered fish to feed
> poultry, the poultry offal possibly to feed the fish and
> the greenhouse to help feed both the fish and the poultry!
> Now, everyone talk to me about this! I value all input
> and information exchanges.
> D.Bennett
Hello Bennet:
Waste sterilization occurs during the drying operation, if you dry them between
90 and 100 C degrees. Wastes must stay at this temperatures at least during
10 minutes.
You should use sterilized fish wastes to feed your fish and not your poultri.
Fish processed wastes have all elements in the exact proportions for fish, and
that elements and it's proportions are not the same for poultri.
That is to say, fish for fish, and poultri for poultri.
Fish feces can be used to feed plants. Fish feces have no more nutrition
value for fish, but they have nutrition value for plants.
These feces must be processed before using.
If you use them in soil, they should be composted.
To use them in a aquaponic system or in a hydroponic system, they should be
processed in a biodigestor, and use the diluted biofertilizer to enrich your
nutrient solution.
If you decide to construct a biodigester, you can process all feces in it, and
use the biofertilizer in soil or in hydroponic systems.
Best regards
Raul Vergueiro Martins
rvm@sti.com.br
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| Message 3 |
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Subject: Re: Alaska - aquaponics and digesters
From: Crystalcreekaqua
Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 09:18:15 EDT
Both, chickens and fish can be used to feed your greenhouse. Use a
solids separator on your fish waste (means no clogged supply lines to the
plant beds) and then send it to a small anaerobic (methane) digester. The
chicken wastes can also be digested if removed from the bedding by letting it
sit in a holding tank until the bedding floats and the grit sinks, what's
left in the middle after skimming the bedding off is very nutrient rich. And
don't just vent the methane into the air (that's what cows do), it adds to
the "greenhouse effect." If you don't have enough to utilize (it could be
used to generate heat for either, or both, of the greenhouse and chicken
house) then burn it off.
UV or high heat (when cooking off the fish waste parts (and another use
for biogas)) sterilization would work great. Unfortunately, tilapia are not
great meat eaters, but mixed in small amounts with their regular feed you
might get them to eat some.
For more information on the digester contact the Dept. of Energy for a
book called the Biogas Utilization Handbook. Each state has an Office and
then there is a regional level. If your state doesn't have it they'll refer
you on up or get it for you as mine did. They also have a lot of case
studies, some on poultry, although none like we're using. Alaska's Dept. of
Energy put out a book on alternative energies used in Alaska and also helped
build a digester for a situation just like Pete's problem in Cordova. They
also found that it was a seasonal thing. That could be remedied by using
several smaller ones and closing most down in the winter. The one left
operating could be utilized to "jump-start" the others with its bacteria when
needed.
I hope that I've been of some help
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Subject: Re: Fish Diseases
From: "Jay Myers"
Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 08:33:08 -0500
Anyone know of a good place to send morts to find out what might have been
the cause of their demise?
Possibly you would be kind enough to comment on this.
Talapia were dying at rapid rate. Morts have guts missing - like someone
took a 1" hole punch and removed. Could this be a symptom of low DO ? I
seem to have under control now - added large filter for solids, and greatly
increased return water splashing, both quantity, and surface disturbance.
Didn't lose any today and they are back to eager eating.
Seems to me that if it were a disease the deaths would continue. Have not
measured water DO, etc. Got back from a 5 day trip and greenhouse worker
had tale
of woe. I'm guessing overfeeding as food was gone way ahead of schedule.
Your thoughts would be appreciated.
Jay Myers
Panama City Beach, Fl.
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Subject: Re: Greenhouse
From: Jenny Reed
Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2000 09:43:01 -0400
At 10:35 PM 4/1/00 -0700, you wrote:
>Unfortunately before we took pictures after we erected it a
>high wind situation cause it's loss. For those who want some
>pictorial details they may be viewed on:
Oh, if anyone else is thinking of building these PVC things, don't. I
built one (self-designed), and it had been up less than a week when a
maurading PIG came through and knocked it down. Totally destroyed. Other
than building a fence, there's nothing you can do to make it withstand a
pig.
And, upon serious reflection, the same would be true for withstanding a
horse, if the horse was so inclined (or spooked).... or a cow.... etc.
Spend some extra money and make a structure that will stand up to some mild
animal abuse.... if you're out in the country, sooner or later some animal
is going to get loose, yours or someone else's (or maybe a wild deer).
If you don't agree, then build whatever you please, it's a free world and I
can't stop you. Only my suggestion. My money was wasted. I would have
been better off investing more in something worthwile the first time,
because I wound up spending that money the SECOND time anyway. You do as
you wish.
Smile!
--Jenny
Reed.
jenny@steeds.com
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Subject: Re: Alaska
From: "TGTX"
Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 09:35:40 -0500
Raul wrote:
> Fish feces can be used to feed plants. Fish feces have no more nutrition
> value for fish, but they have nutrition value for plants.
> These feces must be processed before using.
> If you use them in soil, they should be composted.
> To use them in a aquaponic system or in a hydroponic system, they should
be
> processed in a biodigestor, and use the diluted biofertilizer to enrich
your
> nutrient solution.
> If you decide to construct a biodigester, you can process all feces in it,
and
> use the biofertilizer in soil or in hydroponic systems.
>
> Best regards
>
> Raul Vergueiro Martins
> rvm@sti.com.br
Hi Raul.
If I understoody you your statement about the necessity to compost fish
feces before putting them on plants.....that is incorrect...I should
say...it is NOT necessary to do compost fish feces before introducing them
to the plant culture. That is what aquaponics is all about. It is also
important to note that many organic and conventional farms irrigate with
water containing fish feces and other aquatic animal feces..obviously for
those that irrigate from creeks, rivers, and ponds. This discussion has
come up before and can likely be found in the aquaponics group archives.
Thanks.
Ted
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Subject: Re: Greenhouse
From: Jim Sealy Jr
Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2000 09:51:01 -0500
Hey Jenny,
I think the key to your problem is pointed out by you in the phrase 'I
built one (self designed), and it had been up less than a week'.
The old saying about killing enough fish to be called a fish farmer also
applies to self designing greenhouses. Around here, (North Mississippi
delta) well designed PVC based greenhouses regularly survive both
tornados and marauding livestock..
Jenny Reed wrote:
>
> At 10:35 PM 4/1/00 -0700, Marc S. Nameth wrote:
> >Unfortunately before we took pictures after we erected it a
> >high wind situation cause it's loss. For those who want some
> >pictorial details they may be viewed on:
>
> Oh, if anyone else is thinking of building these PVC things, don't. I
> built one (self-designed), and it had been up less than a week when a
> maurading PIG came through and knocked it down. Totally destroyed. Other
> than building a fence, there's nothing you can do to make it withstand a
> pig.
>
> If you don't agree, then build whatever you please, it's a free world and I
> can't stop you. Only my suggestion. My money was wasted. I would have
> been better off investing more in something worthwile the first time,
> because I wound up spending that money the SECOND time anyway. You do as
> you wish.
>
> Smile!
>
> --Jenny
> Reed.
> jenny@steeds.com
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Subject: Re: Greenhouse
From: "Loren"
Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 10:21:01 -0500
Jenny,
Upon reflection what type of structure would you find to be more durable
and more appropriate than what you built? I've often wondered why
greenhouses are built with the cold side the same as the sun side. From my
background in building I'd be inclined to build out of EPS foam coated with
concrete, leaving only the sun side open to light, but my background is
more in residential than commercial greenhouses. Do you need the light
coming in the top of the structure during the summer? Thank you for any
information which will give good data for current and future designs. As a
way of introduction, the web site below tells some about me.
Loren
http://paisite.com/sunlife/index.htm
----------
> From: Jenny Reed
> To: aquaponics@townsqr.com
> Subject: Re: Greenhouse
> Date: Sunday, April 02, 2000 8:43 AM
>
> At 10:35 PM 4/1/00 -0700, you wrote:
> >Unfortunately before we took pictures after we erected it a
> >high wind situation cause it's loss. For those who want some
> >pictorial details they may be viewed on:
>
> Oh, if anyone else is thinking of building these PVC things, don't. I
> built one (self-designed), and it had been up less than a week when a
> maurading PIG came through and knocked it down. Totally destroyed.
Other
> than building a fence, there's nothing you can do to make it withstand a
> pig.
>
> And, upon serious reflection, the same would be true for withstanding a
> horse, if the horse was so inclined (or spooked).... or a cow.... etc.
>
> Spend some extra money and make a structure that will stand up to some
mild
> animal abuse.... if you're out in the country, sooner or later some
animal
> is going to get loose, yours or someone else's (or maybe a wild deer).
>
> If you don't agree, then build whatever you please, it's a free world and
I
> can't stop you. Only my suggestion. My money was wasted. I would have
> been better off investing more in something worthwile the first time,
> because I wound up spending that money the SECOND time anyway. You do as
> you wish.
>
> Smile!
>
>
>
> --Jenny
> Reed.
> jenny@steeds.com
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Subject: Re: red claw
From: Crystalcreekaqua
Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 11:54:43 EDT
Another method that doesn't require manual cleaning is to use vertically
stacked fish egg trays and divide up the area inside to match your crawfish
size, or crab, or prawn... It's self feeding and cleaning (put a net on the
output to catch any unused feed).
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Subject: Re: red claw
From: "TGTX"
Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 10:55:06 -0500
Howdy.
David B. Rouse, Dept. of Fisheries, Auburn University, wrote a little
technical report on red claw culture in Ecuador in the Sept. 94 issue of
World Aquaculture. Goes something like this:
Marcelo Salame and family started a company, INACUA, S.A., several miles
from Guayaquil, and built 27 hectares of ponds. Stocked the 1st 10 ha with
5 gram juvenile red claw (Cherax quadicarinatus) purchased from Australia.
Growth was good. The critters were averaging 90 to 100g in 6 months, with
some males weighing over 200g. The info he was given from Australia
indicated he might expect 35 to 45g at 6 months and 85 to 105 g at 12
months. Marcelo found red claw culture different from shrimp farming in
several ways. Small (0.5 to 1 ha) ponds are used instead of 10 to 15 ha
ponds more common for shrimp. He noticed that red claws' appetite seems to
decrease if only a single type of feed is used. They prefer a mixture or
"salad" as he calls it. He feeds a variety of forage materials which
includes rice, corn, and several other agricultural by-products. To ensure
that they have all they need, he finishes off his feeding schedule with a
22% protein shrimp ration.
Marcelo uses the Australian method of juvenile production which involves
placement of selected brooders in spawning ponds where mating, spawning and
a brief nursery phase take place. Research shows a 100 gram femal should
produce about 1,000 eggs. The eggs are carried under the females tail for
about 1 month before hatching. Released young are juveniles and require no
specialized larval rearing as do shrimp and prawns. Juveniles are allowed
to grow in the nursery ponds for another 4 to 6 weeks, after which time they
are about 3 to 7 g and can be harvested and stocked directly into culture
ponds.
Each crop should take about 6 to 8 months. Marcelo's target harvest size is
100g, or 4 to the pound. Flow traps are used to harvest marketable animals
until most have reached the target size. He then drains the pond for final
harvest. With 1.5 to 2 crops per year, he sees no problem in reaching the
2,000 to 4,000 kg/ha/yr reported in Australia.
Marcelo plans to process his small lobsters in Guayaquil and sell first in
Europe where he has been quoted US$6 to $9 per pound.
That's the Red Claw Report for this Sunday.
Gotta get back to the yard work and ruminating about Azolla and Duckweed.
(Doesn't ruminating refer to chewing the cud?)
Ted
Ted
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Subject: Re: Greenhouse
From: Mike Miller
Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2000 11:01:26 -0500
I am in the process of building a greenhouse out of an old trampoline frame
left here on the farm. The frame was 14 feet in diameter with four leg
sockets on each half circle. I got four 10 foot lengths of 1 1/2 " emt and
whipped out some adapters on the lathe and bingo, I have a reasonably
sturdy greenhouse frame. Add a wood foundation and end walls and I will be
on the way.
Your post about maurading animals confirmed some questions I have about
covering materials. Someone in the past mentioned that racoons had torn
through their plastic greenhouse covering to get at the fish in the tanks.
I had a similar situations with the coons around here except this one
clawed through the screen to climb inside and help herself to a watermelon
rind that I slothly had not taken to the compost pile yet. (I now have
cage wire on the windows in summer. You would think I still live in
Chicago ;>))
Anyway, who do people think about using corrugated fiberglass on the lower
sides/ends of the green house for animal protection? Mike Miller
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| Message 12 |
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Subject: Re: Greenhouse
From: marc@aculink.net
Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2000 10:27:44 -0600
..snip..
I would have
> been better off investing more in something worthwile the first time,
> because I wound up spending that money the SECOND time anyway.
..snip..
So true. More info, maybe trivial, maybe useful.
The addition of braces to the purloins attached to the
center posts would have prevented the straightening of the
upwind PVC hoops. Lesson learned - brace hoops to the center
posts via purloin.
When the wind was blowing across the hoop structure there
seemed to be a lifting effect similar to an airplanes wing
and the plastic opposite the wind direction would attempt to
rise in a long bubble that traveled down the hoop and would
lift the hold down weights in the air when they were strong
enough. Lesson learned - use plastic cover hold down scheme
of some sort. Net straps, clip channels - something.
During the peak (100 plus mph gusts) I witnessed creosote
soaked 12 by 18 inch bridge beams (I was using these to
anchor the plastic) lifted off the ground by the upwards
force on the plastic the wind caused. Imagine a row of 10 to
20 foot creosote soaked bridge beams laid end to end for 95
feet lifted off the ground 2 to 3 feet then falling as the
"wing" loses lift (stalls?).
The bridge beams weigh about 30 pounds per foot so I would
estimate the upwards lift to have to be a minimum of 2900
pounds for the 95 foot length. Based on the sudden upward
acceleration of the beams it could be much more.
The winds went on for almost two days continuously and
changed direction 3 times. Started from the south, changed
to from the north, back to south and finally from the north
in around an 8 to ten hour cycle with transition periods of
less than an hour. Peak winds occurred every ten minutes (it
seemed like seconds) or so.
Eventually the base connections from plastic to beams failed
and the plastic flapped in the wind opposite the wind source
with an incredibly great noise. Attempts to grab on and pull
down failed with the person or two persons being lifted up
into the air. We couldn't even slow it down let alone get it
under control. In the wee hours we covered tanks, tools and
stuff with tarps and surrendered to the inevitable. ;(
I am confident if the beams had not been lifted the plastic
to beam connection would not have failed as the beams
suddenly dropping when the lift suddenly stopped caused the
plastic to fail. During the sustained winds this was not a
problem but the peak gusts were too much for the massive
beams to hold down. Lesson learned - don't use logs or
beams, use anchors DEEP in the ground or even concrete
footers.
If I had installed plastic hold down hardware from plastic
to hoops I suspect the winds would have attempted to lift
the structure opposite the wind off the ground but the
center posts would not have allowed this as I am sure
properly installed perimeter anchors would not either. (big
span PVC NEEDS a center support.)
I base this assumption on that to the southwest there were
four professionally installed good quality metal buildings
anchored into concrete pads of good size approx. 60 by 120
lost to this windstorm due to roof lift.
A professional grower lost two of his commercial greenhouse
covers but his plastic tore where the maximum "wing" lift
bubble occurred around 20 percent below the crown of the
greenhouse peak on the downwind side. His plastic was
several years old. His frames were still standing as they
are anchored well and consist of approximately 2-1/2 inch
steel tube.
All of these buildings were east west oriented as mine is.
No south north oriented buildings were destroyed to the best
of my knowledge.
One of my customers did tell me that his roof began to fail
as the winds shifted and came at it from the east west
direction. He was sure if they had not continued shifting to
north south he would have lost it. He has cracks in his
concrete pad where the girders go into the foundation.
Marc S. Nameth
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| Message 13 |
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Subject: Re: Greenhouse
From: Jenny Reed
Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2000 13:06:06 -0400
At 10:21 AM 4/2/00 -0500, you wrote:
>Jenny,
> Upon reflection what type of structure would you find to be more durable
>and more appropriate than what you built? I've often wondered why
>greenhouses are built with the cold side the same as the sun side. From my
>background in building I'd be inclined to build out of EPS foam coated with
>concrete, leaving only the sun side open to light, but my background is
>more in residential than commercial greenhouses. Do you need the light
>coming in the top of the structure during the summer? Thank you for any
>information which will give good data for current and future designs. As a
>way of introduction, the web site below tells some about me.
>Loren
>http://paisite.com/sunlife/index.htm
>
Well, I chose good, sturdy, thick hardwood posts for my new greenhouse. A
good, thick, solid steel would work, and so would concrete. In fact, I
didn't consider concrete until I'd already purchased the wood, or I might
have done differently. As for panes, avoid the stupid plastic they sell in
such places as Lowe's. There are good options instead. That plastic is
meat the first time a chicken pecks at it, or a raccoon wants to pass
through, or a possum, or..... whatever.
You can use real glass, which looks lovely, works well, and is pretty
solid, but it really sucks if it breaks. Or there's a thick plastic
(doesn't bend, or at least not much) that looks very much LIKE glass, but
isn't. I thought it was called poly-something, but when I tried to order
it from this fellow named Steve Hopkins, who was loudly advertising on
email groups that he sold greenhouse supplies, he jerked me around for over
a week, then referred me to a man named Tim Weaver, who took my money,
jerked me around for a month, and then sent me the junk stuff I had very
clearly stated I did NOT want. (I'm suggesting that you avoid these
dishonest people.) The advantage to real glass is that you can go to your
local glass shop and have them cut the panels the way you want them - this
is important if you didn't buy a kit. The advantage to the poly-something,
IF you can find it (I never did) is that it (supposedly) doesn't break.
And after installing real glass, I believe I can't remember why I wanted
the poly; after my first experience, I was afraid that animals would break
it to get through, but on reflection, I Think they'd rather not - broken
glass isn't fun for ANYBODY.
Now, I'm not an expert. But I do know that a lot of people, especially
folks who keep a small "hobby" greenhouse, build "half-greenhouses"... they
build it onto the side of their house or a barn, or they nestle it up
against the treeline so that only half the greenhouse actually gets light.
And yes, it doesn't require glass panels on both sides. But, if you build
a larger greenhouse, in the middle of a field with lots of sun from all
sides, you'll need that sun.
I would write more, but I have someone standing behind me talking at 50
miles per hour and I can hardly think what I'm typing. :)
--Jenny
Reed.
jenny@steeds.com
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| Message 14 |
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Subject: Re: Fish Diseases
From: "TGTX"
Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 12:37:18 -0500
> Anyone know of a good place to send morts to find out what might have been
> the cause of their demise?
>
Jay, perhaps this reference will help. It is from the Maryland Aquafarmer,
Summer 1995:
Bacterial Problem Strikes Maryland Tilapia
By Ana Baya, Frank Wills and Richard Bohn
Tilapia, also known as St. Peter's fish, are increasingly popular fish
mainly raised in recirculating aquaculture systems. Since the summer of
1994, a significant number of cases of a bacterial disease are being
reported to Animal Health Diagnostic Laboratories in College Park and
Princess Anne. The streptococcus bacteria being found does not constitute
increased risk to humans, but is responsible for some significant disease
outbreaks in the normally safe fish culture systems.
The disease occurs following an episode of stress (such as temperature or
water quality shock, or recent transport) and can affect all age groups of
tilapia. Other fish species in the same culture facility may also be
affected. Clinical signs of disease appear several days after the stress,
but may be difficult to distinguish from other bacterial infections. Some
signs are missing scales, small body sores, reddening at the base of one or
more fins, bulging eyes (exophthalmia or popeye), milky eyes (corneal
opacity), and loss of appetite. As the infection progresses, red sores
become ulcers, eyes fill with pus and may then collapse, and the fish die.
Groups of fish usually show a steady and significant death rate over several
weeks, rather than a sudden, massive die-off. Mortality can occur more
rapidly and affect greater numbers with continuing stresses.
The disease is treatable, and many fish can be rescued with the use of
approved antibiotics. The fish should first be screened by an Animal Health
Lab to determine which antibiotics will be effective, rather than applying
an expensive and inappropriate treatment which may further stress the fish.
Since intensive culturing systems are prone to episodes of stress,
preventing the introduction of the bacteria is the most effective way of
avoiding the problem.
Ideally, new fish to be added to any culturing system should be inspected
and be accompanied by a health certificate. It is also prudent to ask the
seller if any bacteria or viruses were isolated from the lot of fish you are
purchasing, or are common at their facility even without disease outbreaks.
The ability to be on the lookout for specific disease symptoms will shorten
your reaction time for correcting them, if they occur. If this information
is not available, then fish may be tested at the Animal Health Diagnostic
Laboratory in College Park. Contact Dr. Ana Baya (301-935-6074) to schedule
submission of at least four live fish from the seller to the Fish Health Lab
prior to shipment.
Despite whether or not consultants, regulators or fish sellers feel
pre-testing fish for diseases is important in closed systems, persons
operating those systems are at a disadvantage if this information is not
available. It is a matter of quality control. Fish sellers should be
particularly sensitive to this, since disease outbreaks are usually blamed
on the source of fish, and without documentation this is difficult to
disprove. Although streptococcus has been identified in Maryland's wild
fish, these fish are an unlikely source of disease in a closed system.
Testing fish for diseases before introduction is prudent management, and may
prevent a lot of sick or dead fish on your farm.
Hope this helps.
Ted
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| Message 15 |
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Subject: Potential feed link?
From: Brian Gracia
Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2000 14:18:01 -0500
Hey everyone,
Here is a link I came across that has some potential for fish/animal feed.
http://www.kurtsaxon.com/foods/foods11.htm
It talks about raising flies to feed fish and chickens.
TTYL,
Brian Gracia
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Better Produce through Better Control
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| Message 16 |
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Subject: Re: Potential feed
From: CAVM
Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 16:18:29 EDT
The Black Soldier Fly, very much different from the common house fly referred
to in the link posted earlier, is a valuable control measure for the common
flys that breed in and around poultry, hog and other farming operations.
There is a very informative article in Feedstuffs magazine, Dec 6, 1999, pg
21. I think it is still availble online.
Basically, this fly does not infest homes or buildings as much as the common
fly but it is a strong competitor with the common fly and the common fly will
not inhabit the same area. The Black Soldier Fly larve are easy to harvest
by letting them drop into a bucket, thanks to their natural tendency to try
to climb up.
They have 43% protein and 35% fat.
Hope this helps.
Cornelius A. Van Milligen
Iowa Protein Inc
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| Message 17 |
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Subject: parasitic wasps / Black Soldier fly....Re: Potential feed
From: William Evans
Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2000 14:00:44 -0700
>
> The Black Soldier Fly, very much different from the common house fly referred
> to in the link posted earlier, is a valuable control measure for the common
> flys that breed in and around poultry, hog and other farming operations.
.......
There be other's... parasitic wasps an such... predaceous flying
machines.....
Most any insectary has them and sell on a continuing shipment basis-
$$$$$
to avoid $$$$, just be sure to have some "bene" plants around
and a source of moisture... and some prey on the wing...
I bought some last year and continue to see these guys around.
billevans
who bought thru "Rincon -Vitova" email>>>>bugnet@west.net
P.O. Box 1555
Ventura, California
U.S.A. 93002 Telephone: (805) 643-5407
.........................................................
.....Listing of insectaries worldwide( very detailed w/ countermeasures
as well!>>>>
http://www.cdpr.ca.gov/docs/dprdocs/goodbug/benefic.htm
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| Message 18 |
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Subject: Fish-raising effluent, was Re: Alaska
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2000 19:11:46 -0500
At 09:35 AM 04/02/2000 -0500, Ted wrote:
>Hi Raul.
>
>If I understoody you your statement about the necessity to compost fish
>feces before putting them on plants.....that is incorrect...I should
>say...it is NOT necessary to do compost fish feces before introducing them
>to the plant culture. That is what aquaponics is all about. It is also
>important to note that many organic and conventional farms irrigate with
>water containing fish feces and other aquatic animal feces..obviously for
>those that irrigate from creeks, rivers, and ponds. This discussion has
>come up before and can likely be found in the aquaponics group archives.
Of course we agree, and it has been discussed before. I haven't time this
evening, but will look back through the posts and see what pertinent pieces
I can post tomorrow.
Thanks, Ted, for answering - Somehow I don't remember the senior year of
high school for my older three (much older - we're talking 15-20 years ago)
being so busy, but then again I worked all the time outside the home (2 jobs
most of the time), so I didn't have a chance to be so involved in the
process. I'm really enjoying my two youngest and being able to schedule my
life around them, but there are days.......
Paula
S&S Aqua Farm, http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
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| Message 19 |
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Subject: Re: Alaska
From: Raul Vergueiro Martins
Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2000 22:10:55 +0700
TGTX wrote:
> Raul wrote:
>
> > Fish feces can be used to feed plants. Fish feces have no more nutrition
> > value for fish, but they have nutrition value for plants.
> > These feces must be processed before using.
> > If you use them in soil, they should be composted.
> > To use them in a aquaponic system or in a hydroponic system, they should
> be
> > processed in a biodigestor, and use the diluted biofertilizer to enrich
> your
> > nutrient solution.
> > If you decide to construct a biodigester, you can process all feces in it,
> and
> > use the biofertilizer in soil or in hydroponic systems.
> >
> > Best regards
> >
> > Raul Vergueiro Martins
> > rvm@sti.com.br
>
> Hi Raul.
>
> If I understoody you your statement about the necessity to compost fish
> feces before putting them on plants.....that is incorrect...I should
> say...it is NOT necessary to do compost fish feces before introducing them
> to the plant culture. That is what aquaponics is all about. It is also
> important to note that many organic and conventional farms irrigate with
> water containing fish feces and other aquatic animal feces..obviously for
> those that irrigate from creeks, rivers, and ponds. This discussion has
> come up before and can likely be found in the aquaponics group archives.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Ted
Hello Ted:
May be you didn't understand me correctly, and to make things clear, I must
elongate too much my message.
So, before I beguin, please, friends of this list, apologise me if I elongate
too much, and if my English is not the best.
As I understand, in aquaponics we have two situations:
1 - You don't separete feces from the water - Here, if you use a substrate, like
gravel or expanded clay, part of the feces are filtered in the substrate and
stay there, mixed to the film of water containing amonia.
In a process of aerobical decomposition, amonia is converted into nitrates by
nitrifiing bacteria, and these nitrites ionize in water, and are absorbed by the
plants.
Feces, are bio-decomposed by other bacteria existing in the media, converted
into other soluble (generally) mineral salts, and many other organic compounds
and organo-mineral compounds, and among these, we can find humus.
Humus, as you know, acts as a buffer, and controls the absortion of mineral
elements by plants.
Mineral salts dissolve and ionize in water, and are absorbed by plants.
Some organic compounds are absorbed by the plants too, and some others continue
in the water.
2 - You don't use a substrate - If you don't use a substrate, feces continue in
the water, part in solution, part in suspension, and part of it, drops down.
Here, we have the decomposition too. At the surface of the water, our
decomposition is predominantly aerobic, as we have more dissolved oxigen here.
At the lower part of the water, we have low levels of oxigen, and frequently
it's total abscence.
And here, we have better conditions for an anaerobic bio-decomposition, wich
really happens.
In the case of decomposition of feces left in the water, part of them, as
decomposition takes place, are impregneted by carbonic gas generated during the
process, reducing it's apparent gravity weight, and this promotes flutuation of
feces particles.
These particles acumulate at water surface and adhere over plant roots, and this
is a disaster.
That's why, when working with no substrate, we must sepatate feces and other
particles from water, the best we can.
Even so, part of feces continue in the water, finely divided, and even in a
coloidal state, and decomposes.
We can easely understand that, when we take that part of feces from water, we
are loosing good quantities of nutrients that could be carried to the plants.
Please refer to the system used by Dr. Rackocy in Virgin Islands to produce
lettuce.
And here comes my opinion to process feces removed from water, in a biodigester.
No doubt you can discard feces directly in soil, but here too, for them to be
used by plants, they must be decomposed by soil bacteria, to be solubilized,
ionized in soil water, and only then be absorbed by plants.
When we irrigate soil with water from fish pond and tanks, with no biodigested
feces, these ones will be decomposed too by soil bacteria before being used by
plants.
This process was used by Egiptians more than 2000 years ago.
But this process can be a polution generator, as fish feces can contain
patogenic bacteria.
These patogenic bacteria can be eliminaed, or at least atenuated to a point of
being no harmfull to humans, or even to other terrestrial animal, if feces are
processed in a multi phase biodigester.
These phases run from an enzimatic phase, an acid aerobic one, an acid
aerobic/anaerobic phase, a neutral anaerobic phase, and a final neutral aerobic
phase.
The final product will be a solution known as biofertilizer, wich contains
soluble ionized salts, organic compouns, organo-mineral salts, and humus.
pH of biofertilizer is around 7,0 (6,5 - 7,5), and BDO (Biological Demand of
Oxigen) is around zero.
If BDO is not near or equal to zero, biofertilizer can be harmful to fishes,
when aded to water, to enrich it, getting this way a better level of nutriens
for plants.
And so, this way, we are integrally recicling fish feces.
Hope this explains you clearly my position, and at the same time be usefull to
you.
May be not everybody in the list agrees with these points, but they seem to be
the best solution.
Greetings
Raul Vergueiro Martins
rvm@sti.com.br
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| Message 20 |
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Subject: Re: Alaska - aquaponics and digesters
From: Pete Peschang
Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2000 17:39:23 -0800
"Alaska's Dept. of Energy put out a book on alternative energies used in
Alaska and also helped build a digester for a situation just like Pete's
problem in Cordova. They also found that it was a seasonal thing. That
could be remedied by using several smaller ones and closing most down in
the winter. The one left operating could be utilized to "jump-start"
the others with its bacteria when needed."
Thanks for the tip, I'll see if I can locate this information. Most
studies on alternative energy, hydoponics, etc. usually look at them as
isolated, independent, technologies and often conclude that they are not
feasible for addressing particular problems. I tend not to believe that
there is any one single answer to the problems of fish waste, high
energy costs, etc. that I described. What I am most interested in is
the possibility of combining technologies to solve several problems. I
envision biodigesters and wind generators reducing the cost of power and
aquaponics producing farm fish and fresh produce thus reducing fish
waste, enhansing the bottom line of the canneries, and reducing the high
cost of produce. Here are my questions. Are the technologies of
aquaponics, biodigestion for methane, and wind generation, advanced
enough to actually make them feasible for combining them as I am
suggesting? If so, what is the primary obstacle to getting a project
like this off the ground?
BTW, my apology to Paula for calling her Pamela, how
embarrassing.......pete
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| Message 21 |
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Subject: Re: Potential feed link?
From: "Steve"
Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 22:11:47 -0500
Hi Brian,
I checked out this website and was unable to find anything relating to flies
for fish food. If you could point me in the right direction I would
appreciate it.
I am BIG-TIME trying to reduce the cost of fish food. I am now growing
watercress as a supplement. Hope this proves successful. By my living in
Wisconsin, I am paying $25/bag for Tilapia feed. The cost of the feed is
well within reason, but shipping KILLS me. Be it Purina, Rangen, or
whoever...it is always the shipping. There is nothing close to me.
Take care.........Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Gracia"
To:
Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2000 2:18 PM
Subject: Potential feed link?
> Hey everyone,
>
> Here is a link I came across that has some potential for fish/animal feed.
>
> http://www.kurtsaxon.com/foods/foods11.htm
>
> It talks about raising flies to feed fish and chickens.
>
> TTYL,
>
> Brian Gracia
>
> ********************************************
> Better Produce through Better Control
> ********************************************
>
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