Aquaponics Digest - Tue 04/04/00
Message 1: Re: Greenhouse
from Mark Hooper
Message 2: Re: Greenhouse
from "beacnhrt"
Message 3: Re: Greenhouse
from tvoivozhd
Message 4: Re: Alaska - aquaponics and digesters
from Pete Peschang
Message 5: trout and lettuce : sludge water chemistry
from laberge@cil.qc.ca (LABERGE MARC)
Message 6: help
from carnette pulma
Message 7: Re: Greenhouse
from "Adam G. Smith"
Message 8: Re: Potential feed link?
from Brian Gracia
Message 9: Re: Alaska - aquaponics and digesters
from Brian Gracia
Message 10: Re: Greenhouse
from tvoivozhd
Message 11: greenhouse stuff
from "timjohanns"
Message 12: greenhouse
from "timjohanns"
Message 13: benders
from "timjohanns"
Message 14: Re: greenhouse
from "bennett"
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Subject: Re: Greenhouse
From: Mark Hooper
Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 12:55:39 -0500
While on the subject of Greenhouses, how are you all bending the steel
pipes into a hoop shape? Also, what size/guage pipe are you using? Any
other good ideas and/or secrets to share?
Mark
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Subject: Re: Greenhouse
From: "beacnhrt"
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 15:04:05 -0500
Hi Mark,
I don't know if you are asking me or someone else. I think I missed some
posts. We are manufacturers and use industrial equipment to make the pieces
for both greenhouses and greenhouse equipment. The size of pipe depends on
the size of the structure. We use 1.75" pipe for residential houses and
small commercial houses or 2.00" pipe for commercial hoop houses. Large
Houses take various sizes depending on the what component it is for.
As far as ideas or secrets to share, It takes alot of trial and error to
come up with each new design.(that's my job). I would not advise too much
trial and error because error costs alot when you are dealing with steel
pipe.
melvin landers
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Hooper
To: aquaponics@townsqr.com
Date: Tuesday, April 04, 2000 12:39 PM
Subject: Re: Greenhouse
>While on the subject of Greenhouses, how are you all bending the steel
>pipes into a hoop shape? Also, what size/guage pipe are you using? Any
>other good ideas and/or secrets to share?
>
>Mark
>
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Subject: Re: Greenhouse
From: tvoivozhd
Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 19:50:54 -0400
If the hoops are steel pipe, you bend them with a roller---looks like three
large pulleys in a frame, one or mor of which are powered, friction feeds
the pipe through and progressively moving the center wheel toward the other
two (and running the pipe through several times) gradually bends the pipe in
the desired arc.
If the relationship between distance between legs and length of PVC pipe is
reasonable, two people can bend it to the desired radius simply by walking
toward each other and placing the ends in preset pipes or holes in the
perimeter frame. Shipping frames is easier if straight pipes are used, so
preformed arcs held by a cross-member are rare. Two-inch PVC in a small
arc, or larger pipe in customary greenhouse widths would require heating the
pipe with hot sand inside, cooling it and knocking or vibrating the sand
out.
Mark Hooper wrote:
> While on the subject of Greenhouses, how are you all bending the steel
> pipes into a hoop shape? Also, what size/guage pipe are you using? Any
> other good ideas and/or secrets to share?
>
> Mark
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Subject: Re: Alaska - aquaponics and digesters
From: Pete Peschang
Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 17:44:55 -0800
Melvin,
Thanks, that was a well thought out and helpful response. We did have
some alternative energy consultants here last year who concluded that
wind is viable, although I'm not sure to what extent. Biodigesters also
look to be viable but can you, or anyone else, provide estimates on the
cost of generating power via biodigester/methane to compare with the
current rate we are paying for KW? The power company manager is
interested in learning more, maybe I might convince him to join in here
or swap some email addresses to get him some more information. I've
also not seen any figures on constructing/purchasing or operating
biogesters. Maybe Mark or Neal will help out with that. I think the
biggest challenge would be the technical side of the plant growth of
aquaponics.
I was particularly interested in your assessment that the primary
obstacles to doing a project like this were time and effort.
While I totally agree, I had expected to hear that it would be related
to installation costs, technical expertise, or any number of business
issues. My objective in emailing so many people in Cordova was to seed
the idea that there are positive solutions to the fish waste problems
available. I'm starting to hear from people now that I asked to get
involved and my hope is that they will catch fire and perhaps make it
happen. I figure most people will probably dismiss the idea as space
age or radical or obsurd but some will at least give it some
consideration. There was a meeting held with the processors today to
discuss the fish waste problem and some are interested in exploring
possible solutions. One of our Tribal Council members is interested in
learning more about these technologies to perhaps present to them. I
hope some of you will take the time to respond if and when they begin
asking questions.......pete
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Subject: trout and lettuce : sludge water chemistry
From: laberge@cil.qc.ca (LABERGE MARC)
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 22:03:14 -0400
Hi group,
Many of you helped me along with my trout and lettuce project and I
thank you all. I figured the least I can do is share some of my findings.
I used the fish to growing surface ratio of ~25 grammes of feed per M2 ( I
intended to use 57 grams but the system couldn't handle it ), raft system at
15C, with solid removal.
My nitrite is stuck at 2ppm which brings me to conclude that the plant roots
do not provide enough surface area for bacteria at 15C and that lettuce does
not absorb nitrite too well. My TDS has been rising steadily for over 3
months and is now at 350ppm. Although I have a degassing column, CO2 remains
at 19ppm ( probably due to the oyster shells I have in my system ). I
aerated sludge from system in buckets for over 10 days and noted that the pH
rose to 8.2, CO2 5ppm, TDS remained the same at 290 ppm , alkalinity rose
from 45 to 188 ! , hardness also rose, ammonia, nitrite as well as nitrate
all dropped to record low and phosphates remained the same as day 1 . I
really thought that I could get a heck of a lot more phosphate out of the
sludge over a 10 day period but I guess it is still locked up in the sort of
solids at the bottom of the bucket , due to the high pH.
Can anybody explain to me why the pH and alkalinity rose so high and why
there remains CO2 after 10 days of aeration of the sludge ?
Marc Laberge
Mont Tremblant
QC. , Canada
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Subject: help
From: carnette pulma
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 19:19:54 -0700 (PDT)
Dear all:
Greetings!
I am new with aquaponics, could you please help how
should I start with a half hectare of land.
Thank you.
Carnette Pulma
Philippines
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com
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Subject: Re: Greenhouse
From: "Adam G. Smith"
Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 21:38:15 +0800
Where does one get the tools to do this pile bending and what type of pipe
and quality of pipe does one buy?
thanks,
adam
----------
>From: tvoivozhd
>To: aquaponics@townsqr.com
>Subject: Re: Greenhouse
>Date: Wed, Apr 5, 2000, 7:50 AM
>
> If the hoops are steel pipe, you bend them with a roller---looks like three
> large pulleys in a frame, one or mor of which are powered, friction feeds
> the pipe through and progressively moving the center wheel toward the other
> two (and running the pipe through several times) gradually bends the pipe in
> the desired arc.
>
> If the relationship between distance between legs and length of PVC pipe is
> reasonable, two people can bend it to the desired radius simply by walking
> toward each other and placing the ends in preset pipes or holes in the
> perimeter frame. Shipping frames is easier if straight pipes are used, so
> preformed arcs held by a cross-member are rare. Two-inch PVC in a small
> arc, or larger pipe in customary greenhouse widths would require heating the
> pipe with hot sand inside, cooling it and knocking or vibrating the sand
> out.
>
> Mark Hooper wrote:
>
>> While on the subject of Greenhouses, how are you all bending the steel
>> pipes into a hoop shape? Also, what size/guage pipe are you using? Any
>> other good ideas and/or secrets to share?
>>
>> Mark
>
>
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Subject: Re: Potential feed link?
From: Brian Gracia
Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 21:56:02 -0500
My web browser brought up the link fine. Anyway, goto
http://www.kurtsaxon.com
Look for a link called Survival food. Under Survival food, you will be
presented with some sub links. On is on flies. There is also a link near
it on rising fish in a barrel.
Brian
At 10:11 PM 04/02/2000 , you wrote:
>Hi Brian,
>
>I checked out this website and was unable to find anything relating to flies
>for fish food. If you could point me in the right direction I would
>appreciate it.
>
>I am BIG-TIME trying to reduce the cost of fish food. I am now growing
>watercress as a supplement. Hope this proves successful. By my living in
>Wisconsin, I am paying $25/bag for Tilapia feed. The cost of the feed is
>well within reason, but shipping KILLS me. Be it Purina, Rangen, or
>whoever...it is always the shipping. There is nothing close to me.
>
>Take care.........Steve
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Brian Gracia"
>To:
>Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2000 2:18 PM
>Subject: Potential feed link?
>
>
>> Hey everyone,
>>
>> Here is a link I came across that has some potential for fish/animal feed.
>>
>> http://www.kurtsaxon.com/foods/foods11.htm
>>
>> It talks about raising flies to feed fish and chickens.
>>
>> TTYL,
>>
>> Brian Gracia
>>
>> ********************************************
>> Better Produce through Better Control
>> ********************************************
>>
>
********************************************
Better Produce through Better Control
********************************************
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| Message 9 |
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Subject: Re: Alaska - aquaponics and digesters
From: Brian Gracia
Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 21:53:17 -0500
At 08:44 PM 04/04/2000 , you wrote:
>Melvin,
>Thanks, that was a well thought out and helpful response. We did have
>some alternative energy consultants here last year who concluded that
>wind is viable, although I'm not sure to what extent. Biodigesters also
>look to be viable but can you, or anyone else, provide estimates on the
>cost of generating power via biodigester/methane to compare with the
>current rate we are paying for KW? The power company manager is
>interested in learning more, maybe I might convince him to join in here
>or swap some email addresses to get him some more information. I've
>also not seen any figures on constructing/purchasing or operating
>biogesters. Maybe Mark or Neal will help out with that. I think the
>biggest challenge would be the technical side of the plant growth of
>aquaponics.
>
>I was particularly interested in your assessment that the primary
>obstacles to doing a project like this were time and effort.
>While I totally agree, I had expected to hear that it would be related
>to installation costs, technical expertise, or any number of business
>issues. My objective in emailing so many people in Cordova was to seed
>the idea that there are positive solutions to the fish waste problems
>available. I'm starting to hear from people now that I asked to get
>involved and my hope is that they will catch fire and perhaps make it
>happen. I figure most people will probably dismiss the idea as space
>age or radical or obsurd but some will at least give it some
>consideration. There was a meeting held with the processors today to
>discuss the fish waste problem and some are interested in exploring
>possible solutions. One of our Tribal Council members is interested in
>learning more about these technologies to perhaps present to them. I
>hope some of you will take the time to respond if and when they begin
>asking questions.......pete
>
Pete,
You might want to contact some of the groups that help third world
countries. I saw a video about 15yrs ago about a tribe that was burning
cow dung to create heat for cooking. They placed a pot on a smoldering
pattie and cooked what ever. Anyway, one of these groups came in and saw
this. They helped the tribe start a bio digester system where they placed
the dung in and collected gas off it for cooking and electricity. They
piped the gas to everyone's hut and gave them stoves for cooking.
Going to a college library will also yield a lot of info. I have
researched biodigestes before. In the same video, there was a farmer from
somewhere in England that had a bio digester in his garage. He placed pig
doodee in it and ran his car off the gas collected.
Just a thought,
Brian Gracia
********************************************
Better Produce through Better Control
********************************************
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Subject: Re: Greenhouse
From: tvoivozhd
Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 23:52:35 -0400
"Adam G. Smith" wrote:
> Where does one get the tools to do this pile bending and what type of pipe
> and quality of pipe does one buy?
> thanks,
> adam
Tvoivozhd---I presume you mean tools to bend steel pipe in a large arc. If you
have access to old Mother Earth magazines and an index, there was an article on
putting together a home-made set of pipe rollers, I believe it was to build a
greenhouse. Commercial rollers would be too expensive unless you were going into
a pipe-forming business.
I had some pipe formed into a large circle (thirty or forty feet) in a Houston
metal fabricating shop. One near you or a steel supply house handling pipe should
also know the nearest fabricator who rolls pipe into large arcs.
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| Message 11 |
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Subject: greenhouse stuff
From: "timjohanns"
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 22:56:43 -0700
I have a 14x32 cold frame and am in the process of building bio-beds, my
intent is to use this as a solar house with biomass floor and radiant floor
heat as back-up. Is it advisable to use a 215 plant aeroponic system in this
same environment with the tank buried under the floor? Will the warm
conditions enjoyed by tilapia and the bio-bacteria be a problem for the aero
system? I used landscape timbers for the bottom (foundation) nailed together
like a wall for 30" up to gain height inside the cold-frame, and give me
more upright sides, I incorporated 2- five foot and one four foot screened
and doored vents on each side. Each end has 10' 4x4 post frames that give
the house some srtuctural grounding as they are buried 36" into the ground,
and they serve as the frame for a large door on each end.
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Subject: greenhouse
From: "timjohanns"
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 23:01:55 -0700
I bought cold-frame arcs for twenty-one dollars each brand new, that pipe
was twelve dollars to buy unformed can one justify bending?
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Subject: benders
From: "timjohanns"
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 23:11:14 -0700
harbor freight salvage co. out of california has a hydraulic pipe bender for
99.00 and the shipping is free. it's not power-fed like the one the other
guy is talking about but it's priced right. I buy a lot of tools, they're
off-branded stuff but I have thousands of dollars worth that have withstood
commercial use for many years. you can get a catalog by calling
1-800-423-2567 or visit them at harborfreight.com, I sound like a sales guy
here but if you really have a lot of time on your hands and want to bend
your own here's an avenue
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Subject: Re: greenhouse
From: "bennett"
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 00:55:20 -0400
>I bought cold-frame arcs for twenty-one dollars each brand new, that pipe
>was twelve dollars to buy unformed can one justify bending?
>
What size (specs. please) pipe did you use?
For a greenhouse, how close together would you space the arcs? I'm just
trying to get a real rough estimate of how much $$$ I'll need in the
upcoming months to build a greenhouse approximately 30X80. We have a lot of
poplar and oak lumber, and are pretty good improvisors, but.....
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