Aquaponics Digest - Thu 04/06/00
Message 1: details of inquiry
from carnette pulma
Message 2: Re: for the record
from "Steve"
Message 3: Re: Fwd. ccQuotations: Here's Your Daily Quotation
from "Steve"
Message 4: Tribal business
from "beacnhrt"
Message 5: Re: Greenhouse
from "beacnhrt"
Message 6: Re: Alaska - aquaponics and digesters
from Pete Peschang
Message 7: Re: Greenhouse
from "beacnhrt"
Message 8: Re: ants
from Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Message 9: aquaponics in the Philippines
from Jacky Foo
Message 10: Re: ants
from "Jay Myers"
Message 11: Re: greenhouse
from "beacnhrt"
Message 12: Re: ants
from S & S Aqua Farm
Message 13: list question
from "D.C., Cathy Dreger"
Message 14: Re: list question
from S & S Aqua Farm
Message 15: Re: ants
from John Hite
Message 16: data
from "Matt Mirabello"
Message 17: Re: Time out - was Re: still no tact,still not impressed
from "TGTX"
Message 18: Re: Time out - was Re: still no tact,still not impressed
from tvoivozhd
Message 19: Re: details of inquiry
from S & S Aqua Farm
Message 20: Re: Alaska - aquaponics and digesters
from "beacnhrt"
Message 21: biodigesters
from "beacnhrt"
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| Message 1 |
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Subject: details of inquiry
From: carnette pulma
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 22:18:51 -0700 (PDT)
Dear Paula:
Thank you for your response. Actualy I am planning
to raise the fishes in tanks: 200-300 gal. I am
thinking of tilapia, carps and ornamental fishes
(cichlids) and pechay,tomato, and some ornamental
plants. i would like to ask if just a simple design
would be appropriate like, having a tank then a PVC
pipe will serve as connection/collector of waste to a
growing beds. if this is not feasible. why ? do i need
other settler tanks ? what are the advantages of these
other tanks ? can i have names and contact numbers of
people in the philippines having this technology ?
Again, thank you and more power.
carnette
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com
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| Message 2 |
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Subject: Re: for the record
From: "Steve"
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 00:17:01 -0500
Hi Tim,
I "also" thought the post was a little "rough around the edges". BUT, I have
had some excellent and friendly dealings with this gentleman. He has gone
"above & beyond" in helping me a couple of times. (...and he has quite a
sense of humor...believe it or not.)
Yes, he may have been a little rude, but maybe he was just having a bad
night. Lord knows, we all have those.
Steve....... :)
----- Original Message -----
From: "timjohanns"
To: "post"
Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2000 8:47 PM
Subject: for the record
> last evening I received a very rude and condescending reply in regard to
> benders, and would like to post a rebuttal. First of all, I was not
talking
> about a small, manual bender used by plumbers, the unit in question is a
> twelve ton hydraulic unit that if fed thru slowly WILL bend large arcs,
I've
> done it personally. I ran a power equipment business for ten years, and
have
> run a multi-faceted construction contracting business, that includes
wiring
> and yes, PLUMBING to name a few for the last ten years, to say I have more
> than a running knowledge of things mechanical is a gross understatement.
> Most of the people on this list are helpful and considerate, appreciating
> any and or all information that is offered, your inflated, condescending
> comments were neither warranted or welcomed. In the words of the Disney
> character, Thumper, "If you can't say something nice, then don't say
noth'in
> at all" Mr.Tvoivozhd !!!!!
>
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| Message 3 |
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Subject: Re: Fwd. ccQuotations: Here's Your Daily Quotation
From: "Steve"
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 00:21:43 -0500
Hi,
See Paula, you are so much more than a pretty face.
Later........Steve :) (I love this list..."cat fights" and all.)
----- Original Message -----
From: "S & S Aqua Farm"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2000 10:58 PM
Subject: Fwd. ccQuotations: Here's Your Daily Quotation
> From: "Quotations.cc"
> Subject: ccQuotations: Here's Your Daily Quotation
> Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2000 10:30:42 -0800
>
> ***********************************************************
>
> Those who agree with us may not be right but we admire
> their astuteness.
> --Cullen Hightower
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------
> Subscribe -
> Click
> -------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
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Subject: Tribal business
From: "beacnhrt"
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 00:33:45 -0500
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Pete,
If you have a response to my last post, please be patient in awaiting =
a response as I am having problems recieving emails on my provider based =
email. I have not recieved anything since your last post on Tuesday. I =
hope these are going out.
melvin landers
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Pete,
If you have a response =
to my last=20
post, please be patient in awaiting a response as I am having problems =
recieving=20
emails on my provider based email. I have not recieved anything since =
your last=20
post on Tuesday. I hope these are going out.
melvin =
landers
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| Message 5 |
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Subject: Re: Greenhouse
From: "beacnhrt"
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 00:52:41 -0500
Mark,
I am a little tired and I don't know if I mentioned this the other day
but if you can get one cheap enough you may try getting a used bender from a
muffler shop. I know our local shop replaces theirs every five years. It
would bend pipe for a small house. If you used a machinists protractor and
marked on both sides the spot where you got the angle right, you could
probably come close enough to getting all of your angles the same. Close
enough for your own use anyway. But then, after buying the bender you would
probably be ahead to just buy a house from a manufacturer. Unless you are
wanting something really unusual, the cost should not be too bad. I seem to
recall you saying you wanted a 30' wide house. If you are willing to go with
a smaller width, you can save alot of money. The smaller the span, the
smaller the amount of metal needed to hold it together. If have any
questions you may want to contact me at beaconhort@thecenter.zzn.com as this
emai service is not working right now.
melvin landers
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Hooper
To: aquaponics@townsqr.com
Date: Tuesday, April 04, 2000 12:39 PM
Subject: Re: Greenhouse
>While on the subject of Greenhouses, how are you all bending the steel
>pipes into a hoop shape? Also, what size/guage pipe are you using? Any
>other good ideas and/or secrets to share?
>
>Mark
>
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| Message 6 |
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Subject: Re: Alaska - aquaponics and digesters
From: Pete Peschang
Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2000 22:06:52 -0800
Melvin,
Thanks but I think you misunderstood and I need to clarify some things.
The idea of using these technologies was mine. I am in no way
representing the tribe although I would not be surprised to see them get
involved should something promising should emerge. The tribe represents
about 25% of the community. Most of the people I emailed are non-Native
representatives of institutions, agencies, and government. I had hoped
to stimulate some interest in looking at some positive solutions and
some emerging technologies. No disrespect intended but I believe this
tribe to be far more progressive then any of the forementioned. How do
I post to Raul Martin? Do you mean on this newsgroup? Do you have any
suggestions on grant sources?.....pete
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| Message 7 |
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Subject: Re: Greenhouse
From: "beacnhrt"
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 00:56:48 -0500
Mark,
I forgot to mention that a bender of this type will only work with a
gothic shaped house, not with the common type hoop house shape. Being from
an area that recieves snow, I am not too fond of them. You can easily remove
snow from a gothic style house, even if you use a double layer of poly.
melvin landers
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Hooper
To: aquaponics@townsqr.com
Date: Tuesday, April 04, 2000 12:39 PM
Subject: Re: Greenhouse
>While on the subject of Greenhouses, how are you all bending the steel
>pipes into a hoop shape? Also, what size/guage pipe are you using? Any
>other good ideas and/or secrets to share?
>
>Mark
>
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Subject: Re: ants
From: Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 02:15:15 -0400
> You have any guidance for ants in the grow beds ? I'm afraid to use any
> power or poison due to fish. Maybe flood the bed forcing them up - then
> suck them up with wet/dry vacuum - then take it outside & spray ant spray
> into it. Better idea ?
How about dusting your plants and/or the floor of the greenhouse with
diatomaceous earth? Is DE kosher around fish?
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Subject: aquaponics in the Philippines
From: Jacky Foo
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 08:05:20 +0200
Carnette wrote:
> I am new with aquaponics, could you please help how
>should I start with a half hectare of land.
S & S Aqua Farm responded
>Perhaps you could provide a few more details about your proposed system -
>fish to be raised; will you use tanks for raising fish or ponds? Have you
>planned your plant crops as yet?
there is an on-going discussion on integration of surface aquaponics (rice)
and aquaculture. This is organized by the Integrated Bi-Systems network
(http://www.ias.unu.edu/proceedings/icibs/ibs/ibsnet) and the Inst of
Advanced Studies Alumni Association of the United Nations University as one
of the 24 papers in the Internet Conference on Material Flow Analysis of
Integrated Bio-Systems http://www.ias.unu.edu/proceedings/icibs/ic-mfa.
You will find this paper very useful. Between April 13 and 28, there will
be an open discussion for those interested in using the model described in
the paper and hopefully IBSNet can jointly develop and cooperate in a
project with you in the Philippines !
regards
jacky foo
IBSnet coordinator.
+++
P.S: let me know if you like to join this paper discussion (3-28 April).
The 4 papers for discussion in April are:
P4-1) Amrit B. Karki and Upendra Gautam (Nepal) : Community
Latrine-cum-biogas plant at Ward No. 1 of Pathari VDC of Morang
District of Nepal.
P4-2) Xiangfu Song, Huodong Ying, Weiming Wu, Qianyu Jin, Guoyan
Zou and Kangmin Li (P.R. China) : Study on surface aquaponics
in natural waters with nutrient flow analysis
P4-3) John Cline and Vernon Rood (Canada) : Rural Composting
Model for Organics Diversion
P4-4) E-L. Jacky Foo & Simon Appleby (Sweden/Indonesia) : Integrated
bio-system for a feedlot-abattoir-meat processing and research
complex in Bali
see http://www.ias.unu.edu/proceedings/icibs/ic-mfa for more information
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Subject: Re: ants
From: "Jay Myers"
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 07:23:00 -0500
D.E. may be OK. Have been using Borax for about a week on the floor &
around the outside edge of G/H and ant problem is greatly reduced. Just
concerned about putting it in pea gravel grow beds. D.E. won't dissolve and
probably would not travel too much through the stones.
Thanks Jay
>> You have any guidance for ants in the grow beds ? I'm afraid to use any
>> power or poison due to fish. Maybe flood the bed forcing them up - then
>> suck them up with wet/dry vacuum - then take it outside & spray ant spray
>> into it. Better idea ?
>
>How about dusting your plants and/or the floor of the greenhouse with
>diatomaceous earth? Is DE kosher around fish?
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Subject: Re: greenhouse
From: "beacnhrt"
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 08:21:36 -0500
D. Bennett,
What exactly is the slope that you want to build on? Although you would
be limited in the direction that it runs, a house with one side having
longer posts than the other side should work if you keep the width to a
minimum. When I get time I will draw up a plan for you. You will have to use
metal though, because PVC won't bend like that(as far as I know). How soon
did you want to get it set up?
melvin landers
-----Original Message-----
From: bennett
To: aquaponics@townsqr.com
Date: Wednesday, April 05, 2000 12:05 PM
Subject: Re: greenhouse
>>effective. Additionally there is an added advantage to using structural
>>materials that have been designed as a package. Ease of installation and
>>and confidence in structural stability may make a package from a
>>manufacturer preferable. That is an individual judgement call.
>>
>Thank you so much. My concern about purchasing a package is
>that whenever I've requested designs that are for building on a
>hillside, I get negative responses. It seemsthere's no such thing
>as a package designed to go on a hillside. Where I live, there's
>no way to get a level space more than about 8X10.
>*** Are there any budding designers out there who'd like to
>exercise their skills? ***
> D.Bennett
>
>
>
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Subject: Re: ants
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 09:11:17 -0500
At 11:25 PM 04/05/2000 -0500, Jay wrote:
>You have any guidance for ants in the grow beds ? I'm afraid to use any
>power or poison due to fish. Maybe flood the bed forcing them up - then
>suck them up with wet/dry vacuum - then take it outside & spray ant spray
>into it. Better idea ?
Adriana wrote:
>
>How about dusting your plants and/or the floor of the greenhouse with
>diatomaceous earth? Is DE kosher around fish?
Jay said:
>D.E. may be OK. Have been using Borax for about a week on the floor &
>around the outside edge of G/H and ant problem is greatly reduced. Just
>concerned about putting it in pea gravel grow beds. D.E. won't dissolve and
>probably would not travel too much through the stones.
>
What is it the ants are doing in your beds? Have you tracked their paths?
Are they carrying aphids into the beds? -- most probable.
If you've reduced their population by treatment around the beds/greenhouse,
you're at least ahead of most of us who wait until they're so bad we can't
tell which direction they're coming from.
I'd start observing their patterns - if they are still in the beds, but not
coming up the legs, they must have a nest under something that's accessible
at bed level. My experience has been under pots or flats that are generally
not moved/disturbed often -- sometimes even some plywood pieces we placed
between the beds on an unused end to supply extra space for potted plants we
intended for sale. It doesn't take ants long to "set up house", and they'll
work their aphid farms from their, with the entire under-area of the pot or
whatever just a really busy place with the ant eggs being tended.
Once you find their paths, follow it and see if you can quickly destroy the
nest area. If you can't, some borax mixed with molasses placed close to the
path will usually take the poison back to the nest and eventually destroy
it. Try to clean house a bit and eliminate/move/clean around anything
that's been sitting in one spot very long.
You can always use tanglefoot or a similar material on the bed "legs" if
they're coming up that way, although ants are very creative in finding new
paths.
But be sure to check your plants for aphids - you may have some trap plants
in those beds that are really attracting them -- I think you said you had
some flowering plants in just for experimentation. They may be the primary
dinner spot, and if they're disposable, trashing those plants would
eliminate much of the aphid problem (assuming that's what is causing the
ants to be there in the first place).
Paula
PS: Flushing the floor and underbed area with a strong stream of water may
catch your ant nest areas also - just watch for what area they run off to
and clear that as well.
S&S Aqua Farm, http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
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Subject: list question
From: "D.C., Cathy Dreger"
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 12:10:46 -0400
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I have successfully engaged the list digest and am still receiving the =
individual posts.=20
If I unsubscribe to the list will the individual posts cease and the =
digest continue?
Or, what is the correct procedure?
Thanks
DC and Cathy Dreger
Rising Fawn, GA
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I have successfully engaged the list =
digest and am=20
still receiving the individual posts.
If I unsubscribe to the list will the =
individual=20
posts cease and the digest continue?
Or, what is the correct =
procedure?
Thanks
DC and Cathy Dreger
Rising Fawn,=20
GA
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Subject: Re: list question
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 11:28:50 -0500
At 12:10 PM 04/06/2000 -0400, you wrote:
>I have successfully engaged the list digest and am still receiving the
individual posts.
>If I unsubscribe to the list will the individual posts cease and the digest
continue?
>Or, what is the correct procedure?
>
>Thanks
>
>DC and Cathy Dreger
I'll take care of it - the instructions I sent last week should have covered
it, but yes, if you sub to the digest, you can unsub from the individual
posts and the digest will continue - they're in two separate programs.
Paula
S&S Aqua Farm, http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
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Subject: Re: ants
From: John Hite
Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 14:18:05 -0500
Not sure what to do when they are already in the beds but to keep ants
and other critters out of an area we spray the area with a mixture of 1
to 3 oz of citrus oil per gallon of water. If it is to be sprayed on
plants we keep it at or below 2 oz per gallon. Cayenne pepper is also a
pretty good repellent, we get large jars of it from horse supply
catalogs. Don't know about regular ants but our fire ants hate dry
molasses, which is also a pretty good soil amendment.
I guess everyone knows this but if you're using DE make sure it is food
grade and not swimming pool variety. The swimming pool kind can cause
severe respiratory problems.
john hite
Jay Myers wrote:
>
> Paula -
>
> You have any guidance for ants in the grow beds ? I'm afraid to use any
> power or poison due to fish. Maybe flood the bed forcing them up - then
> suck them up with wet/dry vacuum - then take it outside & spray ant spray
> into it. Better idea ?
>
> Jay
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Subject: data
From: "Matt Mirabello"
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 16:24:07 -0400
I am a college student at SUNY Geneseo and am in a new class (bio388),
Modeling [dynamic] biological systems. For one of our group projects we
decided to model an aquaponics set up. I wanted to subscribe to the list to
hear of peoples experiences with the system and any data they might have of
growth rates, coversion factors, etc.
I was wondering if people can send me data based on their own personal
experiences,
Here are a some the data questions I need answered
1. What is the bacteria type (species) that lives in the aquaponics set up
2. Groth rates of tilapia (at constant temp, lighting or other related
values)
3. growth rates of soybean plants.
4. a general value for how much NH3 the bacteria can convert in a time
period (how much they are removing from the water)
Or any other data that may be helpful, I just need data to get conversion
rates out of, and the more information I have the better the values will be.
Full credit will be given (referenced) for any data used in the project.
If anyone has any questions as the modeling system that we are using, feel
free to send me an email.
I dont want to clutter the list with responses to this email, if you could
send me the replies directly it would be much appreciated.
Thankyou very much for your time (and information)
It is very much appreciated
Matthew Mirabello
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| Message 17 |
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Subject: Re: Time out - was Re: still no tact,still not impressed
From: "TGTX"
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 19:37:15 -0500
Paula wrote:
> Gentlemen, please - Let's not get too busy with non-productive remarks.
> >From what I've picked up about each of you, both here and on other lists,
my
> opinion would have been that the two of you would really "hit it off".
And
> I don't want to miss out on the suggestions/solutions angle that you may
> offer. Maybe you could converse a little off-list to find a common
ground
> for discussion - could be that there's just a difference in
> terms/context/experience levels.
>
> What little I've seen of the posts here lead me to believe that you are
both
> creative, innovative individuals -- just with a "little" difference in the
> extent of your experience. Tvo, for example, has been involved in more
> activities in his 70+ years than I think I could handle if I lived to be
> 200! Tim still has teens and pre-teens living under his roof, but has
> managed to creatively adapt aquaponics to include new and different
species,
> along with his other business experience. Maybe we're just addressing the
> wrong subject for concensus. :>)
Paula, you're so good.
Listen, fellas, I need a little help in this department before I embark on
the new greenhouse and I would like to brainstorm with you both...if you
don't mind too much.
I want to build a 30 x approx. 80 foot greenhouse with a 12 foot eave height
and gutters for rainwater collection.....hemicircular or hemi-ellipsoidal
metal hoops between the uprights. I would like some design-engineering help
from both of you guys to help me make this happen at least on paper and/or
in my wildest dreams. I'm thinking 6 foot centers on the uprights and on
the hoops. I am thinking double wall polycarbonate on the roof. Need to
give some engineering consideration to the gutters, since I would like to be
able to walk in the gutters like walking the upper plate of a 2 story house
as I did as a young buck when I used to build houses....see what I mean?
Can either or both of you help me?
Ted
Totally Helpless and Without a Clue in Texas.
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| Message 18 |
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Subject: Re: Time out - was Re: still no tact,still not impressed
From: tvoivozhd
Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 21:30:20 -0400
>
> Listen, fellas, I need a little help in this department before I embark on
> the new greenhouse and I would like to brainstorm with you both...if you
> don't mind too much.
>
> I want to build a 30 x approx. 80 foot greenhouse with a 12 foot eave height
> and gutters for rainwater collection.....hemicircular or hemi-ellipsoidal
> metal hoops between the uprights. I would like some design-engineering help
> from both of you guys to help me make this happen at least on paper and/or
> in my wildest dreams. I'm thinking 6 foot centers on the uprights and on
> the hoops. I am thinking double wall polycarbonate on the roof. Need to
> give some engineering consideration to the gutters, since I would like to be
> able to walk in the gutters like walking the upper plate of a 2 story house
> as I did as a young buck when I used to build houses....see what I mean?
>
> Can either or both of you help me?
>
> Ted
> Totally Helpless and Without a Clue in Texas.
Tvoivozhd---at one time I was a tract developer and builder with a 28-day
building cycle, but greenhouses were not my province---and my experiences with
polycarbonate are confined to designing recycling centers for it. So I can't
give you any advice I would regard as authoritative. However, some of the
commercial greenhouse manufacturers do publish data that you should find
helpful---for example:
http://www.agroponic.com/layout_plans.htm
http://www.agroponic.com/Specifications/GutterSpecifications/gutter_specification.htm
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| Message 19 |
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Subject: Re: details of inquiry
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 21:05:44 -0500
At 10:18 PM 04/05/2000 -0700, carnette wrote:
>Dear Paula:
> Thank you for your response. Actualy I am planning
>to raise the fishes in tanks: 200-300 gal. I am
>thinking of tilapia, carps and ornamental fishes
>(cichlids) and pechay,tomato, and some ornamental
>plants.
I remember sometime in the last few days a post (to the Tilapia list?) that
cautioned against raising tropicals with food fishes. Other than that, I
find no problem with your combination.
i would like to ask if just a simple design
>would be appropriate like, having a tank then a PVC
>pipe will serve as connection/collector of waste to a
>growing beds. if this is not feasible. why ?
We would have no problem with this, as that's the basic design we follow,
but much will depend on your grow media. For a pilot project, this should
work just fine and give you an idea of what you can and cannot expect.
do i need
>other settler tanks ? what are the advantages of these
>other tanks ?
I would leave this question to those who have systems that utilize them as
for their reasons. If you're using drilled PVC as your irrigation system,
you should have no problem; but if you're using hydroponic-type nozzles,
etc., you may have more fouling/blocking of the lines than you can handle.
Again, it depends on the specifics of your set-up.
can i have names and contact numbers of
>people in the philippines having this technology ?
I just quickly checked through the roster and find that we still have
several members from the Philippines. If they choose not to post to the
group, perhaps they will post to you privately at carnette pulma
Paula
S&S Aqua Farm, http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
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| Message 20 |
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Subject: Re: Alaska - aquaponics and digesters
From: "beacnhrt"
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 22:44:51 -0500
Pete,
I am sorry. I had thaught Sr. Martin was sending posts on the list, but,
he had contacted me about my cropping method for subsistance farmers. He
told me that he is going to contact you with information about biodigesters.
melvin landers
-----Original Message-----
From: Pete Peschang
To: aquaponics@townsqr.com
Date: Thursday, April 06, 2000 12:32 AM
Subject: Re: Alaska - aquaponics and digesters
>Melvin,
>
>Thanks but I think you misunderstood and I need to clarify some things.
>The idea of using these technologies was mine. I am in no way
>representing the tribe although I would not be surprised to see them get
>involved should something promising should emerge. The tribe represents
>about 25% of the community. Most of the people I emailed are non-Native
>representatives of institutions, agencies, and government. I had hoped
>to stimulate some interest in looking at some positive solutions and
>some emerging technologies. No disrespect intended but I believe this
>tribe to be far more progressive then any of the forementioned. How do
>I post to Raul Martin? Do you mean on this newsgroup? Do you have any
>suggestions on grant sources?.....pete
>
>
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| Message 21 |
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Subject: biodigesters
From: "beacnhrt"
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 23:00:07 -0500
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Hi Paula,
I would like to know if it would be acceptable to forward an email to =
the list. The one in question is from Sr. Raul Martin in Brazil. He is =
developing a biodigester to process chicken manure from a large egg =
operation. the resulting fertilizer is used to grow lettuce. He sent me =
alot of information about it and I think it may be of interest to some =
of the group members.
melvin landers
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Hi Paula,
I would like to know if =
it would be=20
acceptable to forward an email to the list. The one in question is from =
Sr. Raul=20
Martin in Brazil. He is developing a biodigester to process =
chicken manure=20
from a large egg operation. the resulting fertilizer is used to grow =
lettuce. He=20
sent me alot of information about it and I think it may be of interest =
to some=20
of the group members.
melvin =
landers
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