Aquaponics Digest - Sat 04/08/00
Message 1: Re: Polycarbonate roof and gutters
from "Sam Levy"
Message 2: Re: Night Crawlers
from "Elisheva Ruth"
Message 3: Re: Night Crawlers
from "TGTX"
Message 4: Re: Polycarbonate roof and gutters
from marc@aculink.net
Message 5: gutters
from "timjohanns"
Message 6: pipe and bending
from "timjohanns"
Message 7: Re: Polycarbonate roof and gutters
from "TGTX"
Message 8: Re: gutters
from "TGTX"
Message 9: Thank you Tim, still no tact,still not impressed
from Ron2DTwo
Message 10: Re: Thank you Tim, still no tact,still not impressed
from "Barry Thomas"
Message 11: Re: Night Crawlers
from Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Message 12: Thank you Barry
from Ron2DTwo
Message 13: email
from Royce Savage
Message 14: Re: Thank you Barry
from "Barry Thomas"
Message 15: Biodigester email
from "beacnhrt"
Message 16: biodigester
from "beacnhrt"
Message 17: Re: NFT channels
from "beacnhrt"
Message 18: Re: NFT channels
from Raul Vergueiro Martins
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| Message 1 |
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Subject: Re: Polycarbonate roof and gutters
From: "Sam Levy"
Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 22:39:44 PDT
>From: Ronald Polka
I hear people talk about it all the time but have never seen any numbers on
the accumulation of zinc leachate. Has anyone ever seen if this is a
verifiable problem? Such as how many milligrams/liter does end up in the
rainwater after draining off of the gutter, and is this a problem for most
plants?
>Ron Polka
ron--
i would guess that the dissolution of the zinc would be influenced strongly
by pH. my understanding is that we can no longer consider rainwater as pH 7
although i would guess that acidity in rainwater is not uniform over north
america
sam
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| Message 2 |
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Subject: Re: Night Crawlers
From: "Elisheva Ruth"
Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 03:28:21 +0200
Joy,
What exactly is the proposed system for your project with earthworms?
Objectives?
Elisha Ruth
Israel
*********
>From: marc@aculink.net
>To: aquaponics@townsqr.com
>Subject: Re: Night Crawlers
>Date: Sat, Apr 8, 2000, 6:18 AM
>
>
>
>Joy Pye-MacSwain wrote:
>>
>> Morning All.....
>>
>> I have recently informed that we are going to undertake a new project at
>> our facility and so ..some querries, cause I don't know...sigh.....
>> Anyway, has anyone grown night crawlers in a S&S style aquaponics
>> setup??? If so problems encountered???? Where can I purchase a
>> starting stock?? Thanks and i appreaciate any help that folk can send
>> my way.
>>
>> Joy Pye-Macswain,
>> Future Aqua Farms
>
>
>http://www.smartgardening.com/wormsuppliers.htm
>http://www.oldgrowth.org/compost/forum_vermi/
>http://www.dragnet.com.au/~lindah/worms.html
>http://www.oldgrowth.org/compost/forum_vermi/
>http://gnv.fdt.net/~windle/
>http://www.unclejim.com/index.shtml
>http://www.redclaw.com/
>http://www.drylands.demon.co.uk/wigglers.htm
>http://www.earthworm.net
>http://www.ctvalley.com/nightcrawler.htm
>http://www.wormfarm.com/
>http://www.vermiculture.u8.com/2Menu.html
>http://www.yelmworms.com/
>http://www.afn.org/~kazarie/
>http://www.nj.com/yucky/worm/
>http://www.happydranch.com/
>http://www.empnet.com/worms/resource.htm
>http://www.mirinz.org.nz/penv/Publications/Composting.htm
>http://www.wormwoman.com/commercial_vermiculture.html
>http://www.vermint.com.au/growers.html.htm
>http://sorrel.humboldt.edu/~ccat/sub/vermi.htm
>http://overton.tamu.edu/smith/oldsmith/vermiculture.html
>http://www.attra.org/attra-pub/vermicom.html
>http://uccecalaveras.org/compost3.htm
>http://hopper.usfca.edu/env-safety/Compost/worm.html
>http://www.smartgardening.com/wormcomposting.htm
>
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| Message 3 |
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Subject: Re: Night Crawlers
From: "TGTX"
Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2000 08:40:30 -0500
Marc posted:
> http://www.smartgardening.com/wormsuppliers.htm
> http://www.oldgrowth.org/compost/forum_vermi/
etc,...etc., etc...
Marc, you are the worm man...your are the annelid art vanguard, the regent
of red wrigglers.....
Unless Marcy posted that list..in which case, Marcy you are the worm
woman....., etc.
Thanks.
Ted
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| Message 4 |
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Subject: Re: Polycarbonate roof and gutters
From: marc@aculink.net
Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2000 08:49:29 -0600
While an effective argument can be made that it is not
always perhaps rain or snow can reasonably be assumed to be
of aggressive nature in terms of pH for practical reasons.
Most building schemes assume a worst case scenario in terms
of floods, winds, temperatures, etc. Since pH in rain is not
a constant perhaps a worst case should be assumed for it
since food and food growth issues are in evidence.
It is typical for water with low amounts of non water
constituents to have delicate character, such as rain or
snow, so may exhibit wild pH swings with seemingly trivial
external influences. Corrosive characteristics may result.
This implies the actual zinc leachate could exist.
Do studies exist of the levels that may be expected under
certain conditions such as climate or region? If so a worst
case value may be available for planning purposes.
Sam Levy wrote:
>
> >From: Ronald Polka
>
> I hear people talk about it all the time but have never seen any numbers on
> the accumulation of zinc leachate. Has anyone ever seen if this is a
> verifiable problem? Such as how many milligrams/liter does end up in the
> rainwater after draining off of the gutter, and is this a problem for most
> plants?
> >Ron Polka
>
> ron--
>
> i would guess that the dissolution of the zinc would be influenced strongly
> by pH. my understanding is that we can no longer consider rainwater as pH 7
> although i would guess that acidity in rainwater is not uniform over north
> america
>
> sam
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
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| Message 5 |
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Subject: gutters
From: "timjohanns"
Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2000 09:50:07 -0700
I am no engineer neither, but my suggestion is to run a pipe between the 6'
uprights that could support the gutters, beef-up the gutters or use big
enough pipe under the gutters to get what you want. I went to see a
gutter-to-gutter design as you speak-of, and this was my adaptation thought.
If the uprights are not bigger in diameter than chain link fence posts the
hardware for these may be usable in running a support pipe horizontally
below the gutter, the other thought and it is only a thought, is a small
I-beam designed by an engineer to withstand structural req's that you could
run between arcs with uprights attaching to the bottom of the beam, into
say, a pipe welded to the bottom, where as the arcs would attach to the
sides with a similar technique, your gutter would set a top this beam, two
small beams, one on either side of the upright would allow for wider walking
gutters, this should allow for wider spacing on your uprights also. your fax
number would allow me to send some hand sketches, should you need visual
clarification of these "ideas". I apologize for the head butting thing, I
have little tolerance for rudeness and had seen this from Tzo before in
posts to others, the whole thing struck a nerve... I would not give advise
if I didn't know it would work, I own one of those benders and it is a great
tool in my arsenal, but does not hold a candle to the power-fed units Tzo
spoke-of, I mounted mine horizontally like the more expensive model, fed the
pipe in manually, releasing and again pumping-up to achieve the arc, no,
it's not an exacting science, no the uniformity is not outstanding, but it
works. For someone out in the middle of nowhere with few options and some
free pipe it is acceptable, and no Texas doesn't fit into that category :)
The bender is more than adequate for gothic-styles and can be mastered for
arcs, but the mastering part eats-up what little savings are to be had by
the hassle. So ends the bender saga, hopefully reduced to a chuckle,
chalked-up to too much testosterone!:)
Tim bioman@osage.net
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| Message 6 |
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Subject: pipe and bending
From: "timjohanns"
Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2000 10:32:48 -0700
for smaller operations, and smaller cold frame applications, chain-link
fencing, "top-rail" found in Menards, Home-depot style stores works well. It
is galvanized, is weldable, and perfect for lean-to applications, since one
or two bends will create a spacious lean to. Add some perlins and brackets,
and straight-line winds will be less of a worry. ( I spaced mine 3' apart,
this due to my Tim-the-tool-man mentality, I build most everything to
hurricane specs, I'm lazy, I don't like doing things twice.) These come in
10' sections, are approx. 1 and 3/8 ths inches in diameter, and run about
4-6.00 each, and are swaged on one end. I have welded these together
end-to-end to make custom dog runs for coonhounds, the support hardware like
the "T"'s and 90 degree elbows help too. They can be secured end-to-end
with sheet-metal screws, but this is not nearly as stable as welding. I cut
mine with a metal cut-off saw at 45 degrees in the corners and then welded
them to save the cost of the brackets, this tube welds well with a 110-volt
wire welder and gasless type wire. I build deer-stands, rabbit cages, racks,
all kinds of stuff with that welder, they are about 300.00 or less depending
on the brand,( mine is a Lincoln,) they are portable and take little
practice to master, I repaint the welded joints with a metal prep primer,
paint, and a final coat of an auto-body product called " rock guard." it
sprays on clear and is super-tough. auto repair shops paint it on under
your car paint behind the tire areas to prevent rocks from sand-blasting
your paint, some apply it over existing finishes.
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| Message 7 |
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Subject: Re: Polycarbonate roof and gutters
From: "TGTX"
Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2000 17:16:56 -0500
Marc wrote:
.
> This implies the actual zinc leachate could exist.
>
> Do studies exist of the levels that may be expected under
> certain conditions such as climate or region? If so a worst
> case value may be available for planning purposes.
Well said well spoken, Mr. Marc.
However.......Some considerations that I would include in planning would be
that the recommended daily allowance of zinc is about 15 milligrams per
day....I think that is about right. And, I would suggest that some folks,
especially us men-folk need a little more than than. Did you know that the
prostate gland, if it were ashed down to it's pure mineral content, has a
very high percent of zinc? Men need a "lot" of zinc in their diet,
relatively speaking. Oh, and did you know that fish eyes and oyster meat
are naturally very high in zinc?....They need it and they gotta have it.
O.K., so, if I were to drink collected rain water from my galvanized roof
that contained 0.4 ppm or 400 parts per billion of Zn as the free metal ion
in solution - no colloids, hydroxides or carbonate precipiates here, just
good old free Zn ions....then...let's see..... uh...0.4 ppm, that is 0.4
mg/liter, so I would need to drink....37.5 liters...or about 10 gallons of
that water every day just to get my minimum daily allowance of zinc....and
then I might want to drink a little more to keep Mr. Prostate healthy and
uh, galvanized, if you will...In any case, I do not...or I should say I did
not...... drink the water from my rainwater capture system of my aquaponics
greenhouse....and I only used that rainwater water to supplement the tanks
to make up for evaporative losses....and the pH of the water always stayed
above 7 because the growing bed media was pea gravel which contained about
10% of carbonate material, thus buffering the system and keeping most metal
ions out of solution, or reducing the amount in solution and sequestering
most in the form of carbonates and hydroxides on the surfaces of the pea
gravel.....
Just a thought or 2.
Now, IF that galvanized metal has traces of cadmium in the mix, then Oy Vey,
we are talking about a totally different aspect to planning.
Tedzo.
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| Message 8 |
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Subject: Re: gutters
From: "TGTX"
Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2000 18:10:36 -0500
> The bender is more than adequate for gothic-styles and can be mastered for
> arcs, but the mastering part eats-up what little savings are to be had by
> the hassle. So ends the bender saga, hopefully reduced to a chuckle,
> chalked-up to too much testosterone!:)
Hey, Tim, thanks.
Those posts will really help me, I do believe....and I mean both yours and
Mr. Tvo's posts, O.K.? And yep, I'm chuckling... but then, I am always
doing that...that is, whenever I am not whining about something...which I
try not to do if I ever stop and think about it......and Hey, there's a lot
of that testosterone poisoning going around and Thank God for that, I
suppose, vis a vis the whole viva la difference angle....I guess it can get
to the extreme and that's what gets us zinc-plated glandular guys into deep
KimChee sometimes.
You guys and gals on this list just keep on keeping on....trying to figure
the aquaponics thing out ....but then.. if we ever figure it ALL out...then
I will be disappointed and bored....HA HA.
Have a great weekend. Gotta Run.
Ted
P.S. I have ruled out any considerations of the Sod Yurt design for my next
greenhouse creation. Just thought you would might like to know that. In case
you were wondering.
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| Message 9 |
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Subject: Thank you Tim, still no tact,still not impressed
From: Ron2DTwo
Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2000 19:14:13 EDT
Thanks Tim for having the backbone to say what almost everyone else is
thinking but too weak to say.
Sincerely, Ron Salyer
In a message dated 4/5/00 10:57:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time, bioman@osage.net
writes:
<< It's obvious your ego supersedes your diplomas as you have twice missed a
simple point. It does work. I don't care if you have more degrees than a
thermometer, your title means bubkis, I too have worked with title holders,
most miss the mark, they just aren't so arrogant. As he said in his reply,
the lean-to idea is food for thought..chew on it. >>
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| Message 10 |
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Subject: Re: Thank you Tim, still no tact,still not impressed
From: "Barry Thomas"
Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2000 00:30:32 +0100
I believe that horse is dead sir...
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| Message 11 |
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Subject: Re: Night Crawlers
From: Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2000 19:44:59 -0400
> Marc, you are the worm man...your are the annelid art vanguard, the regent
> of red wrigglers.....
Just wondering, are nightcrawlers the same as red wigglers? I thought
night crawlers are regular earthworms whereas red wigglers are the
preferred species for composting.
Adriana, obviously not a worm woman
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| Message 12 |
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Subject: Thank you Barry
From: Ron2DTwo
Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2000 20:09:58 EDT
Barry,
Dead or not, my statement still stands, and is relevant! My comment has
nothing to do with the original subject or content of the 'squabbled over,'
message, but civility in general. I have an immense dislike for arrogant
bullies.
I almost never comment on the content of online squabbling but in this case,
all of us being civilized, educated, and gentle people, I feel that I had to
stand among the counted.
I'm sure that you do not think of yourself as one of those and I trust that
you are not.
Thanks, Ron
In a message dated 4/8/00 7:30:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
barrythomas@crosswinds.net writes:
<< I believe that horse is dead sir... >>
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| Message 13 |
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Subject: email
From: Royce Savage
Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2000 19:22:25 -0500
please unsubscribe for now
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| Message 14 |
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Subject: Re: Thank you Barry
From: "Barry Thomas"
Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2000 04:02:19 +0100
Ron,
> Dead or not, my statement still stands, and is relevant! My comment
has
> nothing to do with the original subject or content of the 'squabbled
over,'
> message, but civility in general.
Yes.
> I have an immense dislike for arrogant bullies.
Good.
> I almost never comment on the content of online
> squabbling but in this case, all of us being civilized,
> educated, and gentle people, I feel that I had to
> stand among the counted.
Might I suggest then that you also take issue with the leaders involved
in any of the (approx) 30 wars currently happening around the planet and
the rest that merely stand and watch or actively profit? Or, any/all the
people who use the other 5 billion or so for their own personal gain,
regardless of the consequences?
Whatever, getting intense about one man writing an overly sharp email
to another seems something of a waste.
> I'm sure that you do not think of yourself as one of those and I trust
that
> you are not.
One of what?
Barry
barrythomas@btinternet.com
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| Message 15 |
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Subject: Biodigester email
From: "beacnhrt"
Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2000 22:21:26 -0500
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_004D_01BFA1A8.C7EC6800
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Bennett,
Craig,
Brian Garcia,
I need your email addresses in order to forward the biodigester =
information to you. I am at beaconhrt@positech.net .
------=_NextPart_000_004D_01BFA1A8.C7EC6800
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Bennett,
Craig,
Brian Garcia,
I need your email =
addresses in=20
order to forward the biodigester information to you. I am at beaconhrt@positech.net=20
.
------=_NextPart_000_004D_01BFA1A8.C7EC6800--
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| Message 16 |
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Subject: biodigester
From: "beacnhrt"
Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2000 23:13:17 -0500
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_00BC_01BFA1B0.05DABAC0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
fkious,
I need your email address as well.
melvin landers
------=_NextPart_000_00BC_01BFA1B0.05DABAC0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
fkious,
I need your email =
address as=20
well.
melvin =
landers
------=_NextPart_000_00BC_01BFA1B0.05DABAC0--
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| Message 17 |
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Subject: Re: NFT channels
From: "beacnhrt"
Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2000 23:55:46 -0500
I have permission from an aquaponics co. in the UK to use their design for
NFT in our own products. I don't think they would mind if I shared it with
you. But please, if you use it , only use it for your own systems. It is
simple but effective. I have not done any trials to find out what size would
be best for lettuce. They only make tomato systems.
It consists of a tray that is 10" wide with 2" side walls angled in
/_____\ ) to hold a piece of heavy gauge black plastic inside in such a way
that the edges meet at the top to hold the plant in place I hope my diagram
will give you some idea of what I am talking about.
ooo I don't Know
where the plastic can be obtained at retail. But a
Plant ----------------------- ooooo search of the internet
should result in suppliers. The metal would
ooo have to be bent
by a machine shop or possibly by a metal siding
Stem with roots below ---- ii installer. Or an alternative
would be to get some woven wire such
/ii\ as is used
for fencing sheep pastures and the such. It could be
Heavy Ga. plastic -------- / ii \ cut with wire cutters and
carefully bent by hand. Care would have
/ ^ \ to be taken
though that it was bent to lay flat so as not to interupt
/ ^^^^\ the flow of
nutrient solution. The inside wires should run in the
( ^^^^^ ) same direction
as the flow to help prevent this.
Metal tray ------------- /-=====-\
Well, for what it's worth there is a simplified view of it. Let me know
if you have any questions.
melvin landers
-----Original Message-----
From: Peter D. Rau
To: aquaponics@townsqr.com
Date: Friday, April 07, 2000 2:07 PM
Subject: NFT channels
>Based on all the information I've read here and on some other hydroponic,
>aquaculture, and aquaponic sites, I think it would be a good idea for me to
try
>a project at the hobby level first before moving into something bigger. I
have
>three aquariums (75, 90, and 110 gallon) that I want to use the aquaculture
part
>of the setup. I would like to use NFT as the hydroponic part.
>
>Does anyone have a good source for NFT channels or instructions for making
them
>using supplies available from Home Depot or some place like that? I'd
>appreicate any and all information.
>
>
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| Message 18 |
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Subject: Re: NFT channels
From: Raul Vergueiro Martins
Date: Sun, 09 Apr 2000 02:26:07 +0700
beacnhrt wrote:
> I have permission from an aquaponics co. in the UK to use their design for
> NFT in our own products. I don't think they would mind if I shared it with
> you. But please, if you use it , only use it for your own systems. It is
> simple but effective. I have not done any trials to find out what size would
> be best for lettuce. They only make tomato systems.
> It consists of a tray that is 10" wide with 2" side walls angled in
> /_____\ ) to hold a piece of heavy gauge black plastic inside in such a way
> that the edges meet at the top to hold the plant in place I hope my diagram
> will give you some idea of what I am talking about.
>
> ooo I don't Know
> where the plastic can be obtained at retail. But a
> Plant ----------------------- ooooo search of the internet
> should result in suppliers. The metal would
> ooo have to be bent
> by a machine shop or possibly by a metal siding
> Stem with roots below ---- ii installer. Or an alternative
> would be to get some woven wire such
> /ii\ as is used
> for fencing sheep pastures and the such. It could be
> Heavy Ga. plastic -------- / ii \ cut with wire cutters and
> carefully bent by hand. Care would have
> / ^ \ to be taken
> though that it was bent to lay flat so as not to interupt
> / ^^^^\ the flow of
> nutrient solution. The inside wires should run in the
> ( ^^^^^ ) same direction
> as the flow to help prevent this.
> Metal tray ------------- /-=====-\
>
> Well, for what it's worth there is a simplified view of it. Let me know
> if you have any questions.
> melvin landers
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Peter D. Rau
> To: aquaponics@townsqr.com
> Date: Friday, April 07, 2000 2:07 PM
> Subject: NFT channels
>
> >Based on all the information I've read here and on some other hydroponic,
> >aquaculture, and aquaponic sites, I think it would be a good idea for me to
> try
> >a project at the hobby level first before moving into something bigger. I
> have
> >three aquariums (75, 90, and 110 gallon) that I want to use the aquaculture
> part
> >of the setup. I would like to use NFT as the hydroponic part.
> >
> >Does anyone have a good source for NFT channels or instructions for making
> them
> >using supplies available from Home Depot or some place like that? I'd
> >appreicate any and all information.
> >
> >
Hello Melvin:
There are some two or three minutes I sent a messag directly to you.
What happened with this message with all these symbols?
Have you any photos of those channels? If so, I woul like to have them.
Confirm that by mail, and I'll send you my adress for normal mail.
Thanks.
Best regards
Raul Vergueiro Martins
rvm@sti.com.br
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