Aquaponics Digest - Wed 05/10/00
Message 1: Re: sources and types of tilapia
from "Steve"
Message 2: Re: sources and types of tilapia
from "Steve"
Message 3: re: RedClaw
from Robert WALKER
Message 4: Re: sources and types of tilapia
from "peter algra"
Message 5: WARNING!!
from "Steve"
Message 6: Re: Melvin Landers booklets
from Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Message 7: Re: Adrianna, worm group?
from Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Message 8: Re: WARNING!!
from Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Message 9: Re: Melvin Landers booklets
from "Melvin Landers"
Message 10: Free Chlorine tester
from "Claude Gelinas agr."
Message 11: Re: Free Chlorine tester
from khale@ballistic.com
Message 12: Re: Free Chlorine tester
from khale@ballistic.com
Message 13: Re: WARNING!!
from "Steve"
Message 14: pH control
from "Steve"
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| Message 1 |
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Subject: Re: sources and types of tilapia
From: "Steve"
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 00:05:34 -0500
Hi Peter,
Forgot one thing. I used an electric agricultural stock tank
heater......1500w, initially. Then I found that the growlights (450w
Agrosun) (2) produced so much heat in my enclosed area that the temp inside
my enclosure was +/- 80 deg F (in the dead of Wisconsin winter) and this
kept the water temp of my tanks (2-800 gal) @ 70+ deg.
Hope this helps........Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "peter algra"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2000 4:08 PM
Subject: sources and types of tilapia
> hi everyone.
>
> I am looking at starting an aquaponics system and am curious about what
> breed of tilapia people are the happiest with. I also would like to know
if
> anyone can verify the claims of mike sipe. The claimed growth rates of his
> fish seem phenomenal compared to anyone elses. Also I am curious as to
which
> type is most cold tolerant, and how cold tolerant. I am looking at
starting
> in British Columbia and am trying to figure out the best way to heat a
> system.
> Thanks
>
> Peter
>
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| Message 2 |
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Subject: Re: sources and types of tilapia
From: "Steve"
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 00:21:32 -0500
(RE: LOVERS??)
Because, everytime I kiss him, he giggles!!!
Sorry, couldn't resist that.
G'day......Steve :>)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve"
To:
Cc: "mike sipe"
Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2000 11:58 PM
Subject: Re: sources and types of tilapia
> Hi,
>
> (I can hear the groans from the list already..."Oh NO, I wish he hadn't
> asked that!" HERE COMES STEVE AGAIN!!)
>
> I have nothing but praise for Mike & his product. (Not the concrete tank
> though. It may work well in warm climates, but would not work in colder
> climates unless you spent a million $ building a foundation for it. I live
> in Wisconsin.)
>
> I bought 2 male nilotica "chocolates" (I call them my chihuahuas. They are
> so cool.), 2 nilotica "Reds" (meanest damned fish I ever saw) & 8 females
> from Mike. This was back in November (I think.) (The 2 original chocolates
> died almost immediately. I'm sure that I did something stupid. Mike
replaced
> them immediately with no questions asked.) The new chocolates, the reds
and
> the females are still doing well.
>
> I have had, and am still having, excellent success with them. They have
> produced, probably, close to 2,000 or more babies. The first ones, babies,
> are probably about a month from marketable size. Considering that I didn't
> get the first batch of babies until December, that is close to a 7 month
> growout. (Now, in defense of Mike's 4-6 mo. growout claim, I was not able
to
> keep the water temp 80+ degrees as he recommends. Too much $ in heating
> costs. I was able to maintain only 70+ deg. throughout the growing time.)
>
> I don't think you are going to find a "cold tolerant" Tilapia, yet anyway.
I
> believe that +/- 56 deg. F is a death sentence for them. (I am not a real
> authority on this though.)
>
> I will, in the next couple of months, try Mike's new Nilotica White. He
says
> they do well and are not as aggressive as the "reds". I can wholeheartedly
> recommend the "chocolates" though.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> (NO GANG!! MIKE & I ARE NOT LOVERS!!)
>
> Hope this helps. Lots of success to you. Take care...
> Steve :)
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "peter algra"
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2000 4:08 PM
> Subject: sources and types of tilapia
>
>
> > hi everyone.
> >
> > I am looking at starting an aquaponics system and am curious about what
> > breed of tilapia people are the happiest with. I also would like to know
> if
> > anyone can verify the claims of mike sipe. The claimed growth rates of
his
> > fish seem phenomenal compared to anyone elses. Also I am curious as to
> which
> > type is most cold tolerant, and how cold tolerant. I am looking at
> starting
> > in British Columbia and am trying to figure out the best way to heat a
> > system.
> > Thanks
> >
> > Peter
> >
>
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| Message 3 |
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Subject: re: RedClaw
From: Robert WALKER
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 15:08:45 +1000
Hi,
How long have the crays been in the tank, are they new (ie 1-4 weeks)?
As I have found that a percentage will keel over in that period no
matter what!
How are you keeping your tanks warm? I used aquarium heaters, and, um
lost quite a few to them eating the power cord, but my experience
is that large crays tend to fall off the perch much quicker than the
small ones - quite a bummer - it would be nice of them to put up a
white flag - at least then youd now that theyre ready to be eaten :-)
A high ammonia rate does not hit them too hard, probably affects them
more when moulting - again its more shock. For the soft female, if
shes moulted then there should be evidence, either a dead looking
body which is empty or a tail/claw some evidence normally exists.
In any attempt try to keep the ammonia down, and food wise, the rule
of thumb that I have been given by other farmers is - a cray can live
happily on less food than more food (thus suggest feeding every other
day - a good way apparently is placing some "half" cooked potato
if its being eaten then you know they are hungry).
As for moulting, yes they go soft, break out of their shells limp
around as soft jellyfish, and harden back probably after a week
depending upon the level of calcium in the water and if they have
access to their old shell (they nibble on it to regain the calcium
not digested prior to moulting).
As for books, there really doesnt appear to be much. The Australian
Queensland Department of Primary Industries has a few books, but
it is more geared around farming, not necessarily the biology of the
species. It appears, due to crays living in deep ponds that this
issue is not really monitored. The idea is have plenty of crays to
start with, and accept a mortality rate of 20-40%. I had a heart
breaking time in a few batches where they just dropped off the perch
for what I thought was no real reason - its possible that simply
handling them or being with them too often may be a cause - dont
know.
However, suggest 40% change in your water, trying to maintain the
temperature & ph are a good idea. Although temperature does not
appear to affect them as much as fish, I think in the long term it
has problems.
Robert.
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| Message 4 |
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Subject: Re: sources and types of tilapia
From: "peter algra"
Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 22:59:59 PDT
careplus@execpc.com
I have a few more questions
what kind of sytem are you running. Is it an aquaponics sytem or a stand
alone fish system. Also what size of tanks are you using.
Also I am wondering if I could visit your setup. I am going to be coming
through wisconsin on my way to bc in the beginning of June.
Thanks
peter
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
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| Message 5 |
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Subject: WARNING!!
From: "Steve"
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 01:00:55 -0500
Hi Gang,
Just want to throw something out to the "newer" folks or folks who are
thinking abut this venture.
Most of you know how much I "baby" my babies & about the various
catastrophes that I have had due to my own negligence or inexperience. I
almost killed all of the fish in my grow-out tanks yesterday. (7 months of
work down the drain). I use the system shown in my website:
http://www.home.mpinet.net/dunc/spring.htm
I tore out the beans & okra because they were just taking over everything.
(I keep trying to find the most cost-efficient crop to raise.) Since I had
room above the tanks after removing the NFT system, I decided to place my
lettuce on the styrofoam rafts in the tanks. I read from Dr. James' posts
that this is the way he grows his lettuce. Well, at some point in time, the
styrofoam floated directly under the discharge from the bio-filters and cut
off the main source of DO (Dissolved Oxygen).
I had just finished working a million hours of noc shifts and didn't really
feel like monitoring the fish that day, but I thought, "better check and
make sure all is o.k.". WELL, ALMOST ALL OF MY FISH WERE AT DEATH'S DOOR!! I
had several that were floating and barely moving...several that were
swimming "upside-down". To make a "long-story short", a major 1,000 gal
"dump", infusion of new water and vigorous agitation of the water to
increase the DO brought all of them back. I actually never lost a single
fish...but it was very, VERY close to a TOTAL WIPEOUT!! (GOD love the
resiliance (sp) of these Tilapia.) WHEW!! :( ! I'm not sure if I would
have recovered if that had happened.
MORAL OF THE STORY: Watch your DO "like a hawk". I have killed more fish due
to low DO (This includes my aquaponic venture & my catfish, bluegill & perch
pond) than from any other reason.
Hope this post is not too long, but I thought it might be of interst to
someone. If I can save one person from a loss, then it was worthwhile.
Have a GREAT day........Steve :)
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| Message 6 |
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Subject: Re: Melvin Landers booklets
From: Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 02:56:11 -0400
> Wouldn't some of your readers be angry with us for presenting this? I had
> considered submitting an article to you for publication , but, thaught that
> we would be tied up for months responding to outraged growers.
Melvin,
I've been receiving both Growing Edge and Practical Hydroponics &
Greenhouses for almost two years and the question of organic
alternatives comes up repeatedly as a question from growers. I think
there is nothing that most hydro growers would love more than a
reliable, effective, simple to use organic, cost-effective alternative.
There would be no need for outrage if such a solution were available.
What matters is results, and if we can use a nutrient that is better and
kinder to the environment we would be very happy.
> Arn't some traditional hydroponic growers trying to get their produce
> labeled as organic?
A lot of hydroponic growers follow organic guidelines when it comes to
pest control.
Adriana
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| Message 7 |
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Subject: Re: Adrianna, worm group?
From: Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 03:09:51 -0400
timjohanns wrote:
>
> Adrianna, you mentioned, check with the worm group.. and their archives.
> What or who are the worm group? E chatters or what. TIA and thanks for
> bringing up the post a second time, I opted not to break her fingers this
> time, but resorted to the handiman's secret weapon...duck tape. I'll go get
> her from the woods later......:>)
Tim,
Marc Nasmeth seems to be the resident worm expert, you need to check
with him. I know this type of group exists but can't tell you the
specifics.
What type of growing set-up do you have at theis time?
(My fifteen year old is dangerous, dangerous with a roll of duct tape.
He ties us the 12 and 9 year olds with it...)
Adriana
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| Message 8 |
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Subject: Re: WARNING!!
From: Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 03:20:42 -0400
> MORAL OF THE STORY: Watch your DO "like a hawk". I have killed more fish due
> to low DO (This includes my aquaponic venture & my catfish, bluegill & perch
> pond) than from any other reason.
>
> Hope this post is not too long, but I thought it might be of interst to
> someone. If I can save one person from a loss, then it was worthwhile.
Steve,
I think this points out the need for redundant systems in case one goes
out and possibly the need for alarms. I you had multiple entry points
for your water the situation might not have been so critical.
At a workshop I attended on aquaculture they also mentioned the
Sensaphone - a device which costs less than $400 and can monitor up to 4
parameters. When any of them is out of whack, for example, no power,
the system goes into autodialer mode and calls 2 different telephone
numbers repeatedly until someone answers. A quick web search will give
you more specifics. I believe radio Shack has a version of this too.
Adriana
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| Message 9 |
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Subject: Re: Melvin Landers booklets
From: "Melvin Landers"
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 07:06:30 -0500
Thanks Adriana,
I remember you mentioning the efforts at organic pest management on the
part of hydroponic growers. If I had gotten onto the hydroponics list as you
suggsted I would probably be aware of their desire to go organic. When I
tried the URL's you gave me I couldn't grt there and gave up due to a lack
of time.
I plan to work with Doug as hard as I can to show the advantages that
growing with biofertilizer would offer them, not forgeting to mention, of
course, that they can also grow with aquaponic systems.
-----Original Message-----
From: Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
To: aquaponics@townsqr.com
Date: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 1:23 AM
Subject: Re: Melvin Landers booklets
>
>> Wouldn't some of your readers be angry with us for presenting this? I had
>> considered submitting an article to you for publication , but, thaught
that
>> we would be tied up for months responding to outraged growers.
>
>Melvin,
>I've been receiving both Growing Edge and Practical Hydroponics &
>Greenhouses for almost two years and the question of organic
>alternatives comes up repeatedly as a question from growers. I think
>there is nothing that most hydro growers would love more than a
>reliable, effective, simple to use organic, cost-effective alternative.
>There would be no need for outrage if such a solution were available.
>What matters is results, and if we can use a nutrient that is better and
>kinder to the environment we would be very happy.
>
>> Arn't some traditional hydroponic growers trying to get their produce
>> labeled as organic?
>A lot of hydroponic growers follow organic guidelines when it comes to
>pest control.
>
>Adriana
>
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| Message 10 |
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Subject: Free Chlorine tester
From: "Claude Gelinas agr."
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 12:58:53 -0400
Hello,
I'm looking for a free chlorine tester to read free chlorine level in wash
water for vegetable.
Could somebody direct me to a supplier of that type of equipment.
i only found some that are used to test chlorine in clean water but they are
not usable in dirty water like what we get when we cool and wash vegetable.
thank you,
Claude Gélinas Agr., D.T.A. PHYTO Ressources
========================================================================
Varennes, Québec, Canada Tél: (450) 652 9764 Fax : (450) 652 6182
Des questions sur les insectes et maladies des plantes ornementales ?
Want to know more about ornamental plant pest ?
http://www.phyto.qc.ca
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| Message 11 |
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Subject: Re: Free Chlorine tester
From: khale@ballistic.com
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 14:14:33 -0500
At 12:58 PM 5/10/00 -0400, you wrote:
>Hello,
>
>I'm looking for a free chlorine tester to read free chlorine level in wash
>water for vegetable.
>
>Could somebody direct me to a supplier of that type of equipment.
>
>i only found some that are used to test chlorine in clean water but they=
are
>not usable in dirty water like what we get when we cool and wash vegetable.
>
>thank you,
>
>
>Claude G=E9linas Agr., D.T.A. PHYTO Ressources
>BOATCYCLE MFG. & CHEMICAL- FISH FARMING SUPPLY - 800/333-9154
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| Message 12 |
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Subject: Re: Free Chlorine tester
From: khale@ballistic.com
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 14:54:22 -0500
At 02:14 PM 5/10/00 -0500, you wrote:
>At 12:58 PM 5/10/00 -0400, you wrote:
>>Hello,
>>
>>I'm looking for a free chlorine tester to read free chlorine level in wash
>>water for vegetable.
>>
>>Could somebody direct me to a supplier of that type of equipment.
>>
>>i only found some that are used to test chlorine in clean water but they=
are
>>not usable in dirty water like what we get when we cool and wash=
vegetable.
>>
>>thank you,
>>
>> =20
>>Claude G=E9linas Agr., D.T.A. PHYTO Ressources
>> Varennes, Qu=E9bec, Canada T=E9l: (450) 652 9764 Fax : (450) 652=
6182
>> Des questions sur les insectes et maladies des plantes ornementales ?
>> Want to know more about ornamental plant pest ?
>> http://www.phyto.qc.ca
>> =20
>>
>>BOATCYCLE MFG. & CHEMICAL- FISH FARMING SUPPLY - 800/333-9154
>903/657-3791
>
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| Message 13 |
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Subject: Re: WARNING!!
From: "Steve"
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 21:50:01 -0500
Thanks, will look into this. That experience was no fun.
Steve :)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 2:20 AM
Subject: Re: WARNING!!
>
> > MORAL OF THE STORY: Watch your DO "like a hawk". I have killed more fish
due
> > to low DO (This includes my aquaponic venture & my catfish, bluegill &
perch
> > pond) than from any other reason.
> >
> > Hope this post is not too long, but I thought it might be of interst to
> > someone. If I can save one person from a loss, then it was worthwhile.
>
> Steve,
> I think this points out the need for redundant systems in case one goes
> out and possibly the need for alarms. I you had multiple entry points
> for your water the situation might not have been so critical.
>
> At a workshop I attended on aquaculture they also mentioned the
> Sensaphone - a device which costs less than $400 and can monitor up to 4
> parameters. When any of them is out of whack, for example, no power,
> the system goes into autodialer mode and calls 2 different telephone
> numbers repeatedly until someone answers. A quick web search will give
> you more specifics. I believe radio Shack has a version of this too.
>
> Adriana
>
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| Message 14 |
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Subject: pH control
From: "Steve"
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 22:02:41 -0500
Hi Gang,
I need to ask a question that is "somewhat" unrelated to aquaponics or
hydroponics.
I have a pond that is apprx. 1/4 - 1/3 acre and probably averages 5' in
depth. (I have a shallow end that is inches and a deep center that is apprx.
12'.) I was not fortunate enough to hit a spring when I had the pond dug.
Therefore, all water is from ground water.
I read a chart that shows un-ionized ammonia is directly related to temp.
and pH. Well, there is nothing I can do about the temp. The pH of the pond
was 9.5 +/-. I am trying to get the pH down to apprx. 7.0. I have been
adding muriatic acid. I have added 10 gal so far and the pH is down to 8.5.
I am adding the acid a gallon at a time at a cost of $2.37/gal. Anyone have
any suggestions as to a better way to do this?
Thanks.......Steve
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