Aquaponics Digest - Thu 05/11/00
Message 1: Re: WARNING!!
from Jim Sealy Jr
Message 2: Re: pH control
from khale@ballistic.com
Message 3: duckweed and fish native to S.E. US
from Carolyn Hoagland
Message 4: red claw
from "timjohanns"
Message 5: Re: [hydroponics] pH control
from "Steve"
Message 6: Re: [hydroponics] pH control
from Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Message 7: sulfuric / muratic acids
from "timjohanns"
Message 8: PVC glazing
from "Loren"
Message 9: Re: PVC glazing
from William Evans
Message 10: Re: Melvin Landers booklets
from Raul Vergueiro Martins
Message 11: RE: Redclaw
from Robert WALKER
Message 12: pH control
from laberge@cil.qc.ca (LABERGE MARC)
Message 13: Re: sulfuric / muratic acids
from "Claude Gelinas agr."
Message 14: Re: [hydroponics] pH control
from djhanson@calweb.com
Message 15: post it claude
from "timjohanns"
Message 16: Re: [hydroponics] pH control
from marc@aculink.net
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| Message 1 |
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Subject: Re: WARNING!!
From: Jim Sealy Jr
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 02:20:40 -0500
A junk yard deluxe power outage warning system I have working now is an
old P75 PC with a 14.4 modem and a UPS I've replaced the 2 little dinky
batteries with 4 big deepcycles..(also have back-up generators but I'm a
belt and suspenders kinda guy so I don't trust it to always start-up on
it's own.. If the power goes off, the computer'll email me, at the
office, home, and a copy to my pager.. Same goes for temp out of
range.. This is using the standard (free) monitoring software that
comes with the UPS.. The temp warning was meant for warning you that a
server was overheating.. Works just as well with the sensor taped to the
side of a fish tank. ;)
Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta wrote:
>
>
> > MORAL OF THE STORY: Watch your DO "like a hawk". I have killed more fish due
> > to low DO (This includes my aquaponic venture & my catfish, bluegill & perch
> > pond) than from any other reason.
> >
> > Hope this post is not too long, but I thought it might be of interst to
> > someone. If I can save one person from a loss, then it was worthwhile.
>
> Steve,
> I think this points out the need for redundant systems in case one goes
> out and possibly the need for alarms. I you had multiple entry points
> for your water the situation might not have been so critical.
>
> At a workshop I attended on aquaculture they also mentioned the
> Sensaphone - a device which costs less than $400 and can monitor up to 4
> parameters. When any of them is out of whack, for example, no power,
> the system goes into autodialer mode and calls 2 different telephone
> numbers repeatedly until someone answers. A quick web search will give
> you more specifics. I believe radio Shack has a version of this too.
>
> Adriana
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Subject: Re: pH control
From: khale@ballistic.com
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 07:48:27 -0500
At 10:02 PM 5/10/00 -0500, you wrote:
>Hi Gang,
>
>I need to ask a question that is "somewhat" unrelated to aquaponics or
>hydroponics.
>
>I have a pond that is apprx. 1/4 - 1/3 acre and probably averages 5' in
>depth. (I have a shallow end that is inches and a deep center that is apprx.
>12'.) I was not fortunate enough to hit a spring when I had the pond dug.
>Therefore, all water is from ground water.
>
>I read a chart that shows un-ionized ammonia is directly related to temp.
>and pH. Well, there is nothing I can do about the temp. The pH of the pond
>was 9.5 +/-. I am trying to get the pH down to apprx. 7.0. I have been
>adding muriatic acid. I have added 10 gal so far and the pH is down to 8.5.
>
>I am adding the acid a gallon at a time at a cost of $2.37/gal. Anyone have
>any suggestions as to a better way to do this?
>
>Thanks.......Steve
>
>I use sulphuric acid - it takes a lot less but you need to pre mix if you
have fish in the pond.
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Subject: duckweed and fish native to S.E. US
From: Carolyn Hoagland
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 10:17:33 -0500
Hello,
Several months ago there was an interesting discussion about duckweed.
Especially its uses as a water cleaner and fish/livestock/poultry feed.
Does anyone know of any native species of aquatic animals (fish, minnow,
turtle, crayfish, etc...) that will eat duckweed?
Thanks,
Carolyn
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Subject: red claw
From: "timjohanns"
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 12:04:58 -0700
Hey you carazy a robster gwowers, How's a come my big males stand
three-pointed like they're up on jacks and claw their legs? Are they
challenged? Too much boredom? Horny? The females don't seem too impressed,
he's up on his tail and two claws and his feet are traveling like he's
walking on a treadmill that I can't see. Also... If the female is passing
eggs thru the sperm sac can they be seen with the naked eye at this stage, I
don't want to handle any of them to check if I don't have to. TIA
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Subject: Re: [hydroponics] pH control
From: "Steve"
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 12:37:04 -0500
Hmmmmm,
Vinegar..........Now, that's a thought. That is only around $1.00/gal.
Does anyone on the hydro or aquaponics list have any input as to my using
vinegar to decrease the pH in the pond?
Thanks........Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: MegFraser
To: hydroponics@egroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 10:32 PM
Subject: Re: [hydroponics] pH control
At 22:02 -0500 05-10-2000, Steve wrote:
Is it vinegar or baking soda that would adjust it the other way?
Just a thought.
>I am adding the acid a gallon at a time at a cost of $2.37/gal. Anyone
have
>any suggestions as to a better way to do this?
>
>Thanks.......Steve
>
>
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Subject: Re: [hydroponics] pH control
From: Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 14:16:30 -0400
> Vinegar..........Now, that's a thought. That is only around $1.00/gal.
>
> Does anyone on the hydro or aquaponics list have any input as to my using
> vinegar to decrease the pH in the pond?
It's not recommended for hydroponics - I think it's not stable enough or
something. Not to mention not concentrated enough. Sulfuric acid is
used in hydroponics; you can buy it at the auto supply store under the
name battery acid in 1 1/2 gallon containers. They'll look at you funny
since very few people need to top up their batteries any more. Dilute
the acid in about 50 gallons of water first. Be sure to add acid to
water, not the other way around.
Adriana
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Subject: sulfuric / muratic acids
From: "timjohanns"
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 14:00:07 -0700
I had my college chemistry prof. titrate some ph down solution to tell me
what it was when I was in nursing school. He told me it was 28% hydrochloric
acid and said the brick washing acid refered to as muratic acid was the same
thing, when I checked, it came out true. I tried vinegar too, in small hydro
tank culture and my solution went haywire after a few days and had to be
dumped.
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| Message 8 |
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Subject: PVC glazing
From: "Loren"
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 06:19:03 -0500
Does anyone have experience with PVC glazing? I was in Lowe's the other
day and the PVC translucent looked much easier to work with than the
fiberglass and the price was about the same.
Thanks
Loren
http://paisite.com/sunlife/index.htm
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| Message 9 |
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Subject: Re: PVC glazing
From: William Evans
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 13:36:24 -0700
Loren wrote:
>
> Does anyone have experience with PVC glazing?
what about polycarbonate-lexan- tuffer stuff i think than PVC
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Subject: Re: Melvin Landers booklets
From: Raul Vergueiro Martins
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 17:38:15 +0700
Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta wrote:
> > Wouldn't some of your readers be angry with us for presenting this? I had
> > considered submitting an article to you for publication , but, thaught that
> > we would be tied up for months responding to outraged growers.
>
> Melvin,
> I've been receiving both Growing Edge and Practical Hydroponics &
> Greenhouses for almost two years and the question of organic
> alternatives comes up repeatedly as a question from growers. I think
> there is nothing that most hydro growers would love more than a
> reliable, effective, simple to use organic, cost-effective alternative.
> There would be no need for outrage if such a solution were available.
> What matters is results, and if we can use a nutrient that is better and
> kinder to the environment we would be very happy.
>
> > Arn't some traditional hydroponic growers trying to get their produce
> > labeled as organic?
> A lot of hydroponic growers follow organic guidelines when it comes to
> pest control.
>
> Adriana
Hy Adriana:
I think you know my ideas about organic growing.
I think that the problems involving organic products beguin in a distortion of
their definition, and I really don't know why it happened.
I think that we must correct the definition of organic vegetables as being those
obtained by means of the process of feeding plants used by Nature.
This means that no chemical products other than those found in Nature, should be
involved in the process.
Unfortunatly, the definition used to classify a vegetable as being organically
produced, is based in using or not using chemical pesticides.
And organic producers use pesticides too. When you are using teas and juices,
it is not the plant they are produced from that makes the job, but the active
principle encoutered in it, wich works.
When you use, for instance, tobaco tea or tobaco inffusion, you are not using the
tobaco leaves for the job, but nicotine contained in it, and it is a chemical
compost.
Well, we all know how bad nicotine can be for us.
Many organic vegetable consumers don't know this, and many of them are
inveterate smokers. So they consume nicotine when eating and when smoking.
Some may say, that nicotine is washed from plant leaves before using them.
Are we sure of that? Didn't nicotine penetrate leaves before they are washed?
Can any washing process penetrate a leave to wash that nicotine, without
destroying it?
Yes, hydroponists have been fighting for many years to get their product
certified as organic, and can't, because all begun with an error in a definition.
Well, if hydroponists have not been strong enouth to correct this, now, they must
fight their enemies, with their own guns.
Show the consumers, for instance, the sanitary problems envolving organic
products.
If any sanitary authority makes a biological analysis of an organically produced
head of lettuce, at a super-market, with the result, they will close the doors of
that shop in less than 24 hours.
And we have other guns. We have Aquaponics. We have Geo-Hydroponics. We have
people like the Speraneos, Dr. James Rackocy and many others whose name I don't
remember now. We have the examples left by John Woodward, bu Justus Von Liebig,
by William Frederick Gericke, by Franz Haber, and many many others. We have our
knowledge. We have the strengh of truth.
Excuse me all friends of the List, for my extendend and flamed words, but I carry
in my mind 32 years of research in hydroponics and natural processes, and I will
never permit that all this knowledge be despised and wasted, just because
somebody says that "an organic vegetable is the one produced without the use of
pesticides or industrialy purified fertilizers".
I've never been a real producer, and I've never owned a single coin with
hydroponics.
I'm not defending my pocket. I defend the truth, wich today, is a rare product.
Best regards
Raul Vergueiro Martins
rvm@sti.com.br
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| Message 11 |
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Subject: RE: Redclaw
From: Robert WALKER
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 09:02:44 +1000
HI,
I have seen the males standing on tippy toes, but generally
they have been preening, this allows them to get their other
legs under and give them selves a good clean, however, it could
be something to do with mating, don't know. All I can recall is
if clean water is added most tend to get up on their toes
and clean themselves.
As for females, it is possible to pick them up, just be careful.
I found that 90mm PVC pipe made very good hides and all was required
was a sieve at one end and lift the other up slowly and I have
them, one could then check for eggs. It takes around 3 months
at 24c to take eggs to detached baby crays, around 20 odd days for
the eggs to initially change color. 50-60 days and the eggs are red
possibly with eyes, a short time later and they are little shrimp
like things clinging to the under-side of the mother.
They are fairly easy to breed. 1 male, 1 female, add water a little
bit of food. The most important it seems is temperature, the talk
about light, I believe is not important, as My crays were in a shed
and all that really seemed to get them going was raising the water
temp, making sure that they had food - These are probably the most
important events which drive the mating cycle in the wild.
One thing about Aquaculture & Aquaponics, there is plenty of scope
to play - However, it seems that the more water you have the less
chance of causing an upset in the balance.
Robert.
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| Message 12 |
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Subject: pH control
From: laberge@cil.qc.ca (LABERGE MARC)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 19:29:29 -0400
<< I read a chart that shows un-ionized ammonia is directly related to temp.
and pH. Well, there is nothing I can do about the temp. The pH of the pond
was 9.5 +/-. I am trying to get the pH down to apprx. 7.0. I have been
adding muriatic acid. I have added 10 gal so far and the pH is down to 8.5.
>>
Steve , an important factor you did not mention is your water exchange rate
( pond renewal time ) , if your renewal is a couple of days , wouldn't you
constantly be fighting your pH ?
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Subject: Re: sulfuric / muratic acids
From: "Claude Gelinas agr."
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 21:36:20 -0400
The best acid to use in hydroponic is nitric acid but it is very powerfull and
dangerous. other good acid are hydrochloric (muriatic) acid (HCl) and
phosphoric acid if you need to add phosphor to your solution.
sulfuric acid is good but it will precipitate with all the calcium in the water
and Ca will become unavailable to plant.
vinegar or acetic acid and citric acid are not very good as they contain
carbon and will breakdown fast and supply food for microorganism.
I have a chart that tell you how much acid to add to break alkalinity in water.
it can deal with most acid on the market. if it could help you i can post it on
the list.
Claude Gélinas Agr., D.T.A.
PHYTO Ressources
========================================================================
Varennes, Québec, Canada Tél: (450) 652 9764 Fax : (450) 652 6182
Des questions sur les insectes et maladies des plantes ornementales ?
Want to know more about ornamental plant pest ?
http://www.phyto.qc.ca
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Subject: Re: [hydroponics] pH control
From: djhanson@calweb.com
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 19:20:19 -0700
Vinegar would work, but it's a very weak acid so it'll take a LOT and
you'll get a bunch of organic compounds (in the chemical sense) that may
cause you extra headaches in the process.
>From a fish-friendly standpoint, the most natural way to soften water
and lower pH is probably to use peat filtration. It'll also add a bunch
of organic compounds and stain the water to look like tea, but that can
be handled by using an activated carbon post-filter if desired. Just
make sure that the peat you use isn't full of pesticides/fungicides.
If you do use peat filtration, test your alkalinity & pH first for a
baseline measure & then test again on a daily basis until either the
desired levels are reached (at which point you can stop using the peat
filter until you add additional water that needs to be softened), or you
stop detecting a change. If the levels are still too high, replace the
peat. When you do water changes/additions, test the water before and
after. If the levels aren't similar, it's probably time to replace the
peat. (The old peat still makes a good potting soil ammendment!)
--- dj
Steve wrote:
> Vinegar..........Now, that's a thought. That is only around $1.00/gal.
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Subject: post it claude
From: "timjohanns"
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 21:50:30 -0700
I would like to see that chart of yours on acid Claude, send'r along
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Subject: Re: [hydroponics] pH control
From: marc@aculink.net
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 20:49:58 -0600
Plase be careful about buying acids not meant for food or
potable water use. Many acids and bases are by products of
other chemical processes and contain things you don't want
in your foood chain.
Marc S. Nameth
Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta wrote:
>
>
> > Vinegar..........Now, that's a thought. That is only around $1.00/gal.
> >
> > Does anyone on the hydro or aquaponics list have any input as to my using
> > vinegar to decrease the pH in the pond?
>
> It's not recommended for hydroponics - I think it's not stable enough or
> something. Not to mention not concentrated enough. Sulfuric acid is
> used in hydroponics; you can buy it at the auto supply store under the
> name battery acid in 1 1/2 gallon containers. They'll look at you funny
> since very few people need to top up their batteries any more. Dilute
> the acid in about 50 gallons of water first. Be sure to add acid to
> water, not the other way around.
>
> Adriana
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