Aquaponics Digest - Mon 05/22/00
Message 1: Re: Re : pH control / swamp vs lake
from "Melvin Landers"
Message 2: Re: Re : pH control / swamp vs lake
from "Barry Thomas"
Message 3: Re: Re : pH control / swamp vs lake
from "Angela O."
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 1 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: Re : pH control / swamp vs lake
From: "Melvin Landers"
Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 07:20:44 -0500
Very well put Angela! If you can't get straw you might try rubber boots. I
have noticed that clay sticks prety well to them as well. Though I don't
think there is any humeric acid involved.
I like the way you gave the pond succession lesson. Given enough time
even the Mediteranean sea will become no more than a wetland bog.
melvin landers
-----Original Message-----
From: Angela O.
To: aquaponics@townsqr.com
Date: Sunday, May 21, 2000 10:43 PM
Subject: Re: Re : pH control / swamp vs lake
becomes becomes
Beaver Pond ----------> Beaver Bog -----------> Beaver Meadow
Yep I agree with you about 200% sorry I left things in my last post
without tieing things together with the final jump.
The algae will be the first to increase in the plant world which by the
way will produce additional oxygen while they live, but eventually will die
and decompose etc ..... producing both a BOD due to the decomposers
(bacteria) and a COD due to the combinations of their cell chemistry make up
as they are decomposed into other compounds, most of which will be fairly
inert. (i.e. calcium carbonate) etc and percipitate out to settle to the
bottom.
Ok so I will share a bit of our operation concerning the catfish ponds.
Along about rice planting time on the farm we have timed the catfish
harvesting operation to have been completed. Next step is to
"PUMP" the bottoms of the ponds. To do this we use a rather simple system
of a portible 3" diesel pump floated on a raft made of a platform suspended
over 2 50gal barrels. The suction hose for the pump is connected to a
"rake" made from pipe sections in a "T" fashond. A few steel teeth on the
rake stir up the bottom a bit as it is dragged along. The raft is tethered
by ropes at all 4 corners to various points on the pond bank allowing us to
pull the raft to various areas of the pond etc....
The output hose of the pump is piped to our underground irrigation system
and is actualy pumping things "uphill" so to speak. We open the alfala
valve at the top end of the field we wish to flood. Voila we now have a 40
acre "grow bed" as you asked about in your post. The fishing operation
supplies about 25 lbs of nitrogen/ac of rice field annually. In addition
we will have just REMOVED/Exchanged about 20 % of the water in the pond.
More importantly this 20% will actualy contain about 40%by weight of the
sludge build up.
An interesting side issue about the straw mentioned in previous posts:
After we have pumped pond bottoms the water is very cloudy because of the
raking of the bottoms stirring up not only alge sediment but the clay soil
bottom. Clays suspended in water tend to stay that way. Staw has long
been used to clarify pond waters. We scatter several bales of hay across
the pond surface and "let nature take its course" after about a week most
of the hay no is longer floating and water is noticeibly clearer. The
State Agricultural Dept. "Agronomist" explained it to me once. Errrrrr
(lots of big college words) It seems the parts I remember have something to
do with ionization of the humeric acid imparting a negative(positive ?)
charge on the surface of the straw, which attracts coliodials and causes
them to "flock" and attach to the straw surface sharing a partial
electro-covalent bond.
I think that "means" clay realy sticks well to wet straw.
:o)
For the person with the pond in distress it might not be a bad idea to
rent a portible jagger pump and do a little bottom pumping every few years
or so. Setting the discharge hose to flow over piles of leaves or compost
is a good idea.
R.
>From: "Barry Thomas"
>To:
>Subject: Re: Re : pH control / swamp vs lake
>Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 00:47:21 +0100
>Reply-To: aquaponics@townsqr.com
>
>Hi Angela,
>
>> Well I am not sure who I am replying to at this point
>> so please bare with me.
>
>It wasn't me but thanks for the great post anyway. One question though:
>
>
>> Adding oxygen will allow bigger populations of bacteria to
>> multiply and thrive. These bacteria will utilize the chemical
>> components in the water to build their body parts. Bacteria
>> grow faster than plants,some types dividing on a 20 minute
>> schedule under optimum conditions, thus they need more
>> energy (food) and consume more oxygen, and other chemicals
>> as they grow. Some of the bacteria will use the ammonia
>> and other nitrates in the water and excrete more usible forms
>> of nitrogen that can be absorbed by the plants in the pond
>> bottom.
>
>
>While I'm not in any way disagreeing with you, I still see no real exit
>for the excess materials in the water. There will of course be a
>decrease as the bacterial populations increase but this can only go so
>far without a _lot_ of plants to fix nutrients so they can be removed
>when harvesting?
>
>So, in _addition_ to more O2, sludge (mainly the large amounts of algae
>which seem likely to be the first to capitalise on the increased
>plant-type nutrients) removal from the pond and an external growbed or
>two might be needed?
>
>Apologies, turned out to be more than one question - mission creep. :)
>
>Barry
>barrythomas@btinternet.com
Hugss,
Angela
P.S. This is my web page ... give it a look, if ya like you can compare all
surf programs there ... you can get one just like it already built if ya
want for FREE !
http://www.maxref.com/mrp/top.cgi/earn/MX659763?top=cp
------------------------------------------------------------
You to can have an email account at http://www.bigmailbox.net
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 2 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: Re : pH control / swamp vs lake
From: "Barry Thomas"
Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 01:37:33 +0100
Angela,
Thanks for the additional info. Your "growbed" sounds interesting though
not quite what I had in mind. Either way, when I read back through the
posts it seems that not much can be done until/unless a reliable source
of reasonably clean water is available as, without this, water-loss from
any form of solids removal or remediation of the water (short of
dewatering systems, condensers, heaps of chemicals etc) seems unlikely
to be sustainable.
Could be wrong though.
Barry
barrythomas@btinternet.com
PS Were you really serious about pumping out the sediment every few
_years_?
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 3 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: Re : pH control / swamp vs lake
From: "Angela O."
Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 18:49:16 -0700
Hi Barry,
> .... reading back through the posts it seems that not much can be >done until/unless a
reliable source of reasonably clean water is >available as, without this, water-loss from any
form of solids >removal or remediation of the water (short of dewatering systems, >condensers,
heaps of chemicals etc) seems unlikely to be sustainable.
Yep for the most part I agree with ya. I think th e Real operative word is missing from yoru
statement. PRICE ... as in sustainible at what PRICE. I could probably grow catfish on the
moon but the pirice would be prohibitive.
>PS Were you really serious about pumping out the sediment every few
>_years_?
I was referring to ponds which are recieving supplimental feeding. Fish do not have a 1:1
feed:flesh conversion ratio. What ever doesent get converted (and harvested when the fish are
removed) stays in the system. Therefore things begin to accumilate. And you then have the
beaver pond situation once again. Eventualy no more pond. partially pumping the bottoms
perodicly, delays what will eventually happen for many years.
I am not talking about a "Clean sweep" of the bottom here, call it a PARTIAL HARVEST of
surplus nutrients that can (and should!) be utilized in some other bio-generation operation.
I.E. GROW sumpin' wif it!
R.
P.S. I think Carol/Carolyn asked about using "fish poop" on an Orchard. Great Idea! I left
several things out about our operation in previous post. But the Pond bottoms I am pumping to
the rice fields are ACTUALLY SOLD to the farmer who contracts with us renting the land for the
rice crop. We test the soil and estimate the pond bottoms are furnishing about 25lbs
nitrogen/acre. This reduces the farmers fertalizer bill for the crop. Something we can
directly calculate by the way :o) The farmer gives us credit @20lbs per acre nitrogen computed
at the going rate he pays for his comercial fertalizer. (we throw in the potasium and
phrosphrus for free)
Hugss,
Angela
P.S. This is my web page ... give it a look, if ya like you can compare all surf programs
there ... you can get one just like it already built if ya want for FREE !
http://www.maxref.com/mrp/top.cgi/earn/MX659763?top=cp
------------------------------------------------------------
You to can have an email account at http://www.bigmailbox.net
|
