Aquaponics Digest - Mon 05/29/00
Message 1: Re: Keeping the greenhouse warm ...
from Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Message 2: Re: Keeping the greenhouse warm ...
from "fkious"
Message 3: Re: Keeping the greenhouse warm ...
from Chris Weaver and Theresa Shaw
Message 4: Re: Keeping the greenhouse warm ...
from CAVM
Message 5:
from "Melvin Landers"
Message 6: Re: Keeping the greenhouse warm ...
from "Loren"
Message 7: Re: Drums for Heat Storage
from Jim Sealy Jr
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| Message 1 |
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Subject: Re: Keeping the greenhouse warm ...
From: Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 04:18:05 -0400
> Where did the idea for heating the greenhouse with livestock come from?
In the book Solviva, by Ana Edey, she writes of heating her greenhouse
with chickens and rabbits. That was no ordinary greenhouse - it used
special film donated by 3M, which is no longer available I believe and
is probably very expensive if it is. She had serious problems with
ammonia gases building up in the air and other difficulties. While the
book is interesting, it is a bit unrealistic/idealistic in it's
conclusions, since at the time she was operating she cold get $16/# for
her mesclun. This was before California shippers were producing it for
$3/#.
Minnesota winters are pretty brutal and I suspect would be no match for
an amateur's efforts to heat a simple greenhouse.
One other interesting way I read of heating a greenhouse was to build a
greenhouse perimeter of straw bales a couple of rows high, then fill the
base with several feet of compost/mulch. As the mulch composted it gave
off heat. Others have used water barrels as heat sinks, sometimes using
the barrels as bases for growing trays, and around the perimeter of the
greenhouse. Most libraries have books on the subject of passive
greenhouses. As best I can tell they are appropriate for a hobby or
home greenhouse but not for a commercial operation.
Adriana Gutierrez
Adriana
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| Message 2 |
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Subject: Re: Keeping the greenhouse warm ...
From: "fkious"
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 05:51:06 -0700
spring issue of growing edge(1994)
has info on this
fred
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> From: Melvin Landers
> To: aquaponics@townsqr.com
> Subject: Re: Keeping the greenhouse warm ...
> Date: Sunday, May 28, 2000 7:55 PM
>
> Nick wrote; The most promising idea I've seen was to use animals to add
heat
> in the winter.
>
> Dear Nick,
> Where did the idea for heating the greenhouse with livestock come
from? I
> think you will find that you will have too much air flow in order for the
> heat given off to be of much use. Livestock produce a lot of moisture in
the
> air as they breath. So much so that if it is not removed their health is
at
> risk. The confinement of a barn (or greenhouse) is not a natural
environment
> for any livestock. That is why barns let in so much air. They are not
warm
> places in the winter. As much as I enjoy reinventing various wheels. I
would
> suggest going with a proven heating method, unless you have some money
you
> can afford to lose on experimentation. I know that some folks have tried
> this with chickens with some success, but if you have no experience with
> chickens you could be in for a bad experience. If you have no desire to
> raise livestock, you will not be a happy camper. They don't call the
> activities related to livestock "chores" for nothing.
>
> Nick wrote; I have not decide on a greenhouse type but I'm leaning toward
a
> hoop house until I can determine if this makes long-term sence.
> Hoop house are a good choice. They are reasonably priced and you can fix
> them any way you like.
> melvin landers
>
>
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| Message 3 |
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Subject: Re: Keeping the greenhouse warm ...
From: Chris Weaver and Theresa Shaw
Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 22:22:23 -0400
Nick:
If you are looking at heating your greenhouse alternatively, I would suggest you
don't go with a hoop house. A lean-to type of structure with the North wall
being solid and highly isulated would be far better. The south wall should be
highly insulated up to the 3 foot mark as well. The entire foundation should be
built upon a 3-4 (frost level) foot foundation that is also highly insulated to
prevent frost from creeping in under the greenhouse and robbing heat. Up here
in Canada we have a few companies selling an inovative building system that
consists of polystyrene (styrofoam) blocks that lock together and are hollow on
the inside. These are put together and then concrete is poured on the inside to
create a very stable building with 2.5 inches of styrofoam on the inside and
outside. The companies that sell this block are AAB in Cobourg Ontario and
Eco-block in Port Hope Ontario. There should be a similar product down in
Minnesota.
As far as heating with livestock, I have no experience with this. It sounds
like a nose lifting experience to me. I have seen a few farmers up here use a
greenhouse structure to house dairy cattle in instead of a traditional barn. I
would think that they made accomodations for the humidity problem mentioned by
another list member.
Regards,
Chris Weaver
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| Message 4 |
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Subject: Re: Keeping the greenhouse warm ...
From: CAVM
Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 22:55:29 EDT
If the greenhouse is not already built, might it be placed on the South wall
of your residence? Sort of what we call a Florida room. It would serve to
provide supplemental heat to your house on sunny days of the winter, if you
have such in your area. You could walk out of your back door right into a
spring setting all through the winter.
Cornelius A. Van Milligen
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| Message 5 |
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Subject:
From: "Melvin Landers"
Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 22:09:45 -0500
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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I have mentionrd this before, but, you wern't around to read it. If you =
want to use water to store solar energy, be sure to use many small =
containers.
The old practice of using fewer large containers such as drums kept the =
upper area nice and warm but did little for the plants. Large containers =
give off most of their heat from the top. So do small containers. But, =
with so many of them being below the plants they give off heat to them,
not to the ceiling.
melvin landers
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I have mentionrd this before, but, =
you wern't=20
around to read it. If you want to use water to store solar energy, be =
sure to=20
use many small containers.
The old practice of using fewer =
large containers=20
such as drums kept the upper area nice and warm but did little for the =
plants.=20
Large containers give off most of their heat from the top. So do small=20
containers. But, with so many of them being below the plants they give =
off heat=20
to them,
not to the ceiling.
melvin =
landers
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| Message 6 |
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Subject: Re: Keeping the greenhouse warm ...
From: "Loren"
Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 22:21:52 -0500
Nick,
What are the parameters of your site? Realizing you are in Minnesota, The
American Underground Space association is also up there and we have on
numerous occasions designed and built structures in most parts of the world
which heat and cool themselves. If you are doing aquaculture and need the
fish covered in the summer to keep them from boiling in their water, why
not use a barrel vault insulated on the back and glazed on the sun side,
then in your climate where the winter wind is so extreme, berm the north
side with earth, or more insulation. Expanded polystyrene works well and
coated with cement will be impervious to most solar and moisture
degradation. If you wish further discussion on this topic you can contact
me directly so we don't bore the others with detail of the building trades.
Loren
http://paisite.com/sunlife/index.htm
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> From: Nick Kemp
> To: Aquaponics Journal (E-mail)
> Subject: Keeping the greenhouse warm ...
> Date: Saturday, May 27, 2000 8:27 PM
>
> I'm considering adding an aquaponic setup to our apple orchard business.
> The most pressing question I have is relative to keeping the greenhouse
warm
> during Minnesota's "brisk" winters (about 8500 degree days and -30 max
low).
> I don't want to use conventional methods to heat such as propane or wood.
I
> have not decided on a greenhouse type but I'm leaning toward a hoophouse
> until I can determine if this makes long-term sense.
>
> The most promising idea I've seen was to use animals to add heat in the
> winter. This has potential as well as additional issues to resolve. I'm
> also considering leasing out some of the space to someone who would like
to
> raise animals since I'm not real excited about that part yet.
>
> That said, do any of you have any thoughts relative the topic of keeping
the
> greenhouse warm?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Nick Kemp
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| Message 7 |
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Subject: Re: Drums for Heat Storage
From: Jim Sealy Jr
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 00:01:31 -0500
A simple trick we've used since I was a kid (30++ yrs) is to use the
drums to support your grow tables. Then they do triple duty: Heat
storage, make-up water storage, and handy table supports you can handle
easier than concrete blocks..
Jim
> Melvin Landers wrote:
>
> I have mentionrd this before, but, you wern't around to read it. If
> you want to use water to store solar energy, be sure to use many small
> containers.
> The old practice of using fewer large containers such as drums kept
> the upper area nice and warm but did little for the plants. Large
> containers give off most of their heat from the top. So do small
> containers. But, with so many of them being below the plants they give
> off heat to them,
> not to the ceiling.
> melvin landers
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