Aquaponics Digest - Mon 12/08/97
Message 1: INTRO: Jacky Foo (Sweden)
from Jacky Foo
Message 2: Re: unsubscribe
from S & S Aqua Farm
Message 3: Re: subscribe
from S & S Aqua Farm
Message 4: Re: Commercial aquaculture
from Ian Beaver
Message 5: Re: DIGEST mode question
from S & S Aqua Farm
Message 6: Taste of my produce
from PeterJTheisen@eaton.com
Message 7: Re: past posts
from GCR
Message 8: Re: clay pebbles/spinach
from HYDRO4U
Message 9: Re: clay pebbles/spinach
from HYDRO4U
Message 10: Re: clay pebbles/spinach
from donald trotter
Message 11: Re: Taste of my produce & Intro
from "Laura M. Phillips"
Message 12: Re: Taste of my produce
from "Paul V. Wojcik"
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| Message 1 |
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Subject: INTRO: Jacky Foo (Sweden)
From: Jacky Foo
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 10:29:45 +0100
Hi Everyone
I joined the list from the start but due to my pre-occupation on my move =
from the United Nations Unversity, Tokyo to Stockholm I havent =
interacted with this group yet. I like to start by introducing myself =
and then inform you of some activities that might interest many of you =
too.
I am educated and trained as an agro-industrial microbiologist (1973) =
but developed my expertise since 1983 in providing support for computer =
conferencing and human networking in various biological subjects =
(nitrogen fixation, anaerobic digestion, lactic acid fermentation, =
ecological engineering and integrated bio-systems). I manage a good =
number of mailing lists and organize different types of activities.
A subject of interest to this group is "=EFntegrated bio-systems" and at =
the United Nations University, this was elaborated into a human network =
in 1995 with an Internet Resource Web site on Integrated Bio-Systems. =
(http://www.ias.unu.edu/vfellow/foo/ibs/index.htm). Network members =
communicate via a number of LISTSERV mailing lists, depending on their =
interests.
ET-W1 Integrated Bio-Systems - General Forum
ET-W3 Integrated Sustainable Aquaculture
ET-W5 Integrated Bio-Systems for Eco-breweries
ECOCT-01 Sustainable Solid Waste Management in Developing Countries
ECOCT-P Solid Waste Management in Low-income Communities
To join any of these lists, send the message=20
SUB listname your firstname yourlastname
e.g. sub et-w1 Jacky Foo
to listserv@segate.sunet.se
(see archives of earlier messages in http://segate.sunet.se/archives)
A forthcoming activity in 1998 is the Internet Conference on Integrated =
Biosystem (http://www.ias.unu.edu/vfellow/foo/ibs/icibs/index.htm), this =
will be a conference where authors can present papers (5-10 pages text =
with pictures, diagrams, etc) on the web and discussions via mailing =
lists on various topics related to integration of systems for food =
production, waste water treatment, ecosystem management and in-house =
environments. So aquaculture and hydroponics as well as aeroponics are =
all covered since these often integrate sub-systems to treat and utilize =
nutrients from water in hydroponic plants as well as the solid biomasses =
for e.g. earthworm production, composting for heat generation, etc.=20
I take this opportunity to invite all of you to present your system at =
this conference. All you need to do is to prepare something descriptive =
with pictures and some basic data on input/output of the system. Please =
send a max 1 page summary or abstract of your contribution to =
et-zeus@segate.sunet.se - the summary should include a title, name of =
author(s), full postal and electronic addresses. Deadlines: 31 Dec for =
presentations between April and June 1998 or 31 June for presentations =
between Oct and Dec 1998. Abstracts will be reviewed by a planning group =
and upon approval, you will be required to submit a manuscript for =
discussion on an agreed date. Assistance will be provided for scanning =
of pictures if required. I have applied for funds to cover communication =
costs of authors in developing countries and when approved, this will =
also be made available suitable applicants.
=20
more on my research work later.
regards
jacky
P.S. Congratulations Paula for gathering this highly interactive group.
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| Message 2 |
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Subject: Re: unsubscribe
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 09:44:32 -0600
At 03:43 PM 12/7/97 -0600, you wrote:
>unsubscribe
>
To unsubscribe from the list, please send your message to
aquaponics
S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO 65775 417-256-5124
Web page http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
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Subject: Re: subscribe
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 09:44:34 -0600
At 05:05 AM 12/6/97 +0800, you wrote:
>subscribe
>
>Paul Rosenberg
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To subscribe, send an e-mail to:
aquaponics
in the body (or message area) type:
subscribe
*******************************************************************************
S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO 65775 417-256-5124
Web page http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
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| Message 4 |
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Subject: Re: Commercial aquaculture
From: Ian Beaver
Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 07:32:35 +1300
Hi
On the subject of extruders, can anyone describe what these machines do,
also what power they use.
Here in New Zealand we have a plague of Australian Brush Tail Possums
and the bodies of these animals are available in the area where I live
as a result of trapping operations. I have tried processing them in a
digestor but the smell is overpowering and am looking at a way to
utilise this resource. They are similar in size and structure to a
'large' domestic cat.
Any ideas anyone.
Ian Beaver
Northland, New Zealand
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| Message 5 |
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Subject: Re: DIGEST mode question
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 15:24:07 -0600
At 03:45 PM 12/8/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Hello.
>I am a subscriber to the Aquaponics list. How do I set my subscription to
"digest" mode, so I receive on e-mail/day?
>Thanks.
>Andy Gould
For those new to the list, here's a repeat of the earlier notice on digest
version. I'll try to get it added onto the welcome page. Paula
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Members -
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In the message body:
subscribe
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In the message body:
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People will not be able to send messages to "aquaponics-digest@townsqr.com"
-- they will have to send any messages to "aquaponics@townsqr.com"
S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO 65775 417-256-5124
Web page http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
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| Message 6 |
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Subject: Taste of my produce
From: PeterJTheisen@eaton.com
Date: 8 Dec 97 15:31:28 EST
This is Peter Theisen again. Remember I have a small system where I use
the water from the Tilapia tank to grow vegetables in a gravel bed under
metal halide lamps. For fish food I use either Purina Trout Chow (approx
40% protein) or Purina Catfish Cage Chow (approx 32% protein) My Question
is: Why does my lettuce taste more bitter than that grown outside and why
do my radishes come out so tasting so sharp? I am trying to figure out if
it is the "fish tank water and it related nutrients", or if it is the "high
temperature of the growing bed and the space below the lamps where my
produce grows " (approx. 75 to 90 deg F), or whether it is a "result of
growing with metal halide lamps". Does anyone have an idea?
Pete T.
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| Message 7 |
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Subject: Re: past posts
From: GCR
Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 17:59:36 +0000
At 11:08 AM 12/7/97 -0600, you wrote:
>Donna Fezler wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Can this be done indoors or is an outdoor greenhouse a necessity?
>
> A heated space is required for year-round production of tilapia and
>most vegetables. By indoors do you mean in your house rather than a
>greenhouse?
For this start I have a 1200 square foot heated barn that I can find some
space in for this. I am willing to start with the lights to get the hang
of it.
Eventually the principles are going to be used to design a
greenhouse/swimming pool room with the aquaponics/hydroponics system
doubling as a swimming pool (fish sequestered off to the side). That is
where this is headed. My husband is a mechanical engineer and I am a
bacteriologist by training but am working as a theoretical
biochemist/physiologist designing nutritional alternatives to
pharmaceuticals for the treatment of chronic conditions.
>
>> BTW, what're Rhea Capsules?
>
Rhea capsules are one of my patent pending products. It is a dietary
supplement derived from the muscle proteins of the South American Ostrich.
It provides a tremenous amount of ATP and also appears to chelates toxins
in humans. This was discovered while trying to solve the horribly high
mortality problems we have to face when trying to raise the baby rheas.
This was finally found to be due to zero tolerance to toxins, especially as
infants. Among the things that happen is fat depletion and muscle
depletion. By feeding the meat back to sick chicks and injecting chicks
with fat I was able to usually turn them around. When I finally found the
cause was toxins, by removing the toxin the birds would totally recover if
I found it in time. While sorting through this, I realized the chicks were
dying of accelerated autoimmune disorders. At the same time people with
various autoimmune disorder (Crohns's, lupus, allergies, fibromyalgia) were
calling me and thanking me for giving them their lives back after using the
extract. Much further work finally revealed how toxins could rob the body
of the ATP energy and induce autoimmune disorder symptoms.
Interviews with many people started to reveal a pattern of specific toxins
involved with specific autoimmune disorders. Lupus and paraquat were often
associated with strong pesticides, Crohn's with petrochemicals,
fibromyalgia with nurses, silicone breast implants, or people allergic to
antibiotics. The list is by no means complete, but there is a pattern.
In all these disorders the body is trying to detoxify and sacrifices that
affected area where the toxin is located. The active detoxification
pathway is called rate-limiting, meaning it is not available in infinite
quantities. When the body runs out, it cannot continue until is makes more
of the needed product. This process also conflicts with the rebuilding
process, so they cannot occur together. This is why there is tissue
breakdown, it is not rebuilding fast enough.
The other factor is a protein in muscle that attracts heavy metals. This
is what makes the rhea extract such a potent detoxifier, its muscle protein
is almost magnetically attracted to these toxins.
All animal muscle protein does this to some extent, it is just that the
rhea is much greater.
An East coast teaching hospital will begin a three month clincal study of
the rhea extract and fibromyalgia and lupus in the spring. This gift is
worth about a million dollars. I am also beginning the preliminary open
label clinical trials on MS in January. I am self-taught and discovered
this in my kitchen.
>This whole thing has changed my attitude towards chemical usage from
apathetic to empassioned and I believe aquaponics has a place in helping
people regain control of their food supply.
Forgive me for the long answer, but you asked.
>>
>
>
Donna Fezler@rhealiving.com
GCR
1620 Baldwin Road
Jacksonville, IL 62650
USA
(217) 243-7683, fax 245-2919
*Leading the world in Rhea Research and Product Innovation
*Inventor of the dietary supplement Rhea Extract
*Pioneering research on the role of environmental toxins in autoimmune
disorders
(web page temporarily offline while we change servers)
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Subject: Re: clay pebbles/spinach
From: HYDRO4U
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 17:56:52 EST
In a message dated 97-12-07 16:03:26 EST, you write:
> Subj:
> Date: 97-12-07 16:03:26 EST
> From: gkunkel@cris.com (George Kunkel)
> Sender: aquaponics
> Reply-to: aquaponics@townsqr.com
> To: aquaponics@townsqr.com
>
> Two questions. First I grow nft lettuce in trays without any difficulty.
> Yet when I try to grow spinach in the same system I get very mediocre
> results. E.C. kept around 2, pH about 6.0 night temp about 62-64 [for the
> associated but separate system tomatoes]. Spinach [tyee] germinated in
> oasis cubes, same as lettuce, but poor root system evolution in the trays.
> What to do? Next, in a separate house grow roses in containers with gravel
> and intermittent fertigation without problems but looking for an
> inexpensive lightweight media to replace oh-so-heavy stone. The fired clay
> material is of course great, but last time I checked it was unbelievably
> expensive even in bulk. Freight costs are a consideration too [I live in
> Harrisburg, PA ]. Any thoughts [hope]. Thank you, George Kunkel
>
George,
A trip over to Hydrofarm in Bristol, PA (outside Philly) would
probably be your closest to pick up a load of clay pebbles. You
might want to try perlite. It's really light weight and grows tomatoes
and basil like crazy.
When is the last time you changed out your total nutrients? You
may be missing some of the trace elements. If your night temp is
around 64, how hot does it get during the day? For the most part
the lettuce and spinach should do very well together with the same
nutrient and temperatures.
Carl
Carl O. Anderson Virginia Hydroponics, Inc.
(757) 490-5425 368 Newtown Rd. #105
HYDRO4U Virginia Beach, VA 23462
Teacher Resource Center http://www.hydro4u.com
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| Message 9 |
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Subject: Re: clay pebbles/spinach
From: HYDRO4U
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 17:56:52 EST
In a message dated 97-12-07 16:03:26 EST, you write:
> Subj:
> Date: 97-12-07 16:03:26 EST
> From: gkunkel@cris.com (George Kunkel)
> Sender: aquaponics
> Reply-to: aquaponics@townsqr.com
> To: aquaponics@townsqr.com
>
> Two questions. First I grow nft lettuce in trays without any difficulty.
> Yet when I try to grow spinach in the same system I get very mediocre
> results. E.C. kept around 2, pH about 6.0 night temp about 62-64 [for the
> associated but separate system tomatoes]. Spinach [tyee] germinated in
> oasis cubes, same as lettuce, but poor root system evolution in the trays.
> What to do? Next, in a separate house grow roses in containers with gravel
> and intermittent fertigation without problems but looking for an
> inexpensive lightweight media to replace oh-so-heavy stone. The fired clay
> material is of course great, but last time I checked it was unbelievably
> expensive even in bulk. Freight costs are a consideration too [I live in
> Harrisburg, PA ]. Any thoughts [hope]. Thank you, George Kunkel
>
George,
A trip over to Hydrofarm in Bristol, PA (outside Philly) would
probably be your closest to pick up a load of clay pebbles. You
might want to try perlite. It's really light weight and grows tomatoes
and basil like crazy.
When is the last time you changed out your total nutrients? You
may be missing some of the trace elements. If your night temp is
around 64, how hot does it get during the day? For the most part
the lettuce and spinach should do very well together with the same
nutrient and temperatures.
Carl
Carl O. Anderson Virginia Hydroponics, Inc.
(757) 490-5425 368 Newtown Rd. #105
HYDRO4U Virginia Beach, VA 23462
Teacher Resource Center http://www.hydro4u.com
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| Message 10 |
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Subject: Re: clay pebbles/spinach
From: donald trotter
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 15:19:30 -0800
>Hi george!
Have you considered PERLITE? It is being used al over the world in
hydroponics and sooilless applications. I am including this website address
for you to browse and also some basic information on perlite use.
WEBSITE
www.cropking.com/cropking/cat22.htm
basic facts about Perlite...
Origin and Characteristics...
Perlite is not a trade name but a generic term for naturally occurring
silicous rock. The distinguishing feature which sets perlite apart from
other volcanic
glasses is that when heated to a suitable point in its softening range, it
expands from four to twenty times its original volume.
This expansion is due to the presence of two to six percent combined water
in the crude perlite rock. When quickly heated to above 1600=B0F (871=B0C), =
the
crude
rock pops in a manner similar to popcorn as the combined water vaporizes
and creates countless tiny bubbles which account for the amazing light
weight and
other exceptional physical properties of expanded perlite.
This expansion process also creates one of perlite's most distinguishing
characteristics: its white color. While the crude rock may range from
transparent light
gray to glossy black, the color of expanded perlite ranges from snowy white
to grayish white.
Expanded perlite can be manufactured to weigh as little as 2 pounds per
cubic foot (32kg/m3) making it adaptable for numerous applications.
Since perlite is a form of natural glass, it is classified as chemically
inert and has a pH of approximately 7.
Uses for Perlite...
There are many uses for perlite. These uses can be broken down into three
general categories: construction applications, horticultural applications,
and
industrial applications.
Construction Applications
Because of perlite's outstanding insulating characteristics and light
weight, it is widely used as a loose-fill insulation in masonry
construction. In this
application, free-flowing perlite loose-fill masonry insulation is poured
into the cavities of concrete block where it completely fills all cores,
crevices, mortar
areas and ear holes. In addition to providing thermal insulation, perlite
enhances fire ratings, reduces noise transmission and it is rot, vermin and
termite
resistant. Perlite is also ideal for insulating low temperature and
cryogenic vessels. When perlite is used as an aggregate in concrete, a
lightweight, fire
resistant, insulating concrete is produced that is ideal for roof decks and
other applications. Perlite can also be used as an aggregate in Portland
cement and
gypsum plasters for exterior applications and for the fire protection of
beams and columns. Other construction applications include under-floor
insulation,
chimney linings, paint texturing, gypsum boards, ceiling tiles, and roof
insulation boards.
Horticultural Applications
In horticultural applications, perlite is used throughout the world as a
component of soilless growing mixes where it provides aeration and optimum
moisture
retention for superior plant growth. For rooting cuttings, 100% perlite is
used. Studies have shown that outstanding yields are achieved with perlite
hydroponic
systems. Other benefits of horticultural perlite are its neutral pH and the
fact that it is sterile and weed-free. In addition, its light weight makes
it ideal for use in
container growing. Other horticultural applications for perlite are as a
carrier for fertilizer, herbicides and pesticides and for pelletizing seed.
Horticultural perlite
is as useful to the home gardener as it is to the commercial grower. It is
used with equal success in greenhouse growing, landscaping applications and
in the
home in house plants.
Industrial Applications
Industrial applications for perlite are the most diverse, ranging from high
performance fillers for plastics to cements for petroleum, water and
geothermal wells.
Other applications include its use as a filter media for pharmaceuticals,
food products, chemicals and water for municipal systems and swimming
pools.
Additional applications include its use as an abrasive in soaps, cleaners,
and polishes; and a variety of foundry applications utilizing perlite's
insulating
properties and high heat resistance. This same heat reistant property is
taken advantage of when perlite is used in the manufacture of refractory
bricks,
mortars, and pipe insulation.
Please contact Redco II for more information regarding your particular
application.
Redco II / redco@earthlink.net
Back to Main
Organically yours, Donald W. Trotter PhD.
The Organic Gardener's Resource Centre
In a message dated 97-12-07 16:03:26 EST, you write:
>
>> Subj:
>> Date: 97-12-07 16:03:26 EST
>> From: gkunkel@cris.com (George Kunkel)
>> Sender: aquaponics
>> Reply-to: aquaponics@townsqr.com
>> To: aquaponics@townsqr.com
>>
>> Two questions. First I grow nft lettuce in trays without any difficulty.
>> Yet when I try to grow spinach in the same system I get very mediocre
>> results. E.C. kept around 2, pH about 6.0 night temp about 62-64 [for th=
e
>> associated but separate system tomatoes]. Spinach [tyee] germinated in
>> oasis cubes, same as lettuce, but poor root system evolution in the tray=
s.
>> What to do? Next, in a separate house grow roses in containers with gra=
vel
>> and intermittent fertigation without problems but looking for an
>> inexpensive lightweight media to replace oh-so-heavy stone. The fired cl=
ay
>> material is of course great, but last time I checked it was unbelievably
>> expensive even in bulk. Freight costs are a consideration too [I live in
>> Harrisburg, PA ]. Any thoughts [hope]. Thank you, George Kunkel
>>
>
> George,
>
> A trip over to Hydrofarm in Bristol, PA (outside Philly) would
>probably be your closest to pick up a load of clay pebbles. You
>might want to try perlite. It's really light weight and grows tomatoes
>and basil like crazy.
> When is the last time you changed out your total nutrients? You
>may be missing some of the trace elements. If your night temp is
>around 64, how hot does it get during the day? For the most part
>the lettuce and spinach should do very well together with the same
>nutrient and temperatures.
>
>Carl
>
>Carl O. Anderson Virginia Hydroponics, Inc.
>(757) 490-5425 368 Newtown Rd. #105
>HYDRO4U Virginia Beach, VA 23462
>Teacher Resource Center http://www.hydro4u.com
Donald Trotter
The Organic Resource Centre
293 Neptune Ave.
Encinitas, CA. 92024
curly@mill.net
1.888.514.4004
fax- 760.632.8175
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| Message 11 |
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Subject: Re: Taste of my produce & Intro
From: "Laura M. Phillips"
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 18:52:54 -0600
Why does my lettuce taste more bitter than that grown outside and why
>do my radishes come out so tasting so sharp? I am trying to figure out if
>it is the "fish tank water and it related nutrients", or if it is the "high
>temperature of the growing bed and the space below the lamps where my
>produce grows " (approx. 75 to 90 deg F), or whether it is a "result of
>growing with metal halide lamps". Does anyone have an idea?
Peter -
My outdoor lettuce starts getting bitter when the day-night temperatures
hit that range. The radishes bolt then, too. I don't have any experience
with the other factors you mentioned.
Everyone -
I'm very impressed with this group - such a wealth of experience and
knowledge. My own credentials aren't impressive - I'm a hobbyist, home
gardener, and writer. I don't have my own greenhouse or aquaculture system
yet - we're hoping to manage that in the next year or so. In the meantime,
I'm trying to learn all I can in the hope of avoiding expensive mistakes.
The writer in me also is intrigued by some points mentioned here. Rather
than clogging up the list and irritating those who are here for straight
information, I'll keep those queries to private e-mail.
laurap@sky.net
Laura Phillips
Holt, Missouri
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| Message 12 |
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Subject: Re: Taste of my produce
From: "Paul V. Wojcik"
Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 21:29:28 -0500
> Why does my lettuce taste more bitter than that grown outside and why
> do my radishes come out so tasting so sharp?
How high is your nitrite level? I have heard that if the lettuce
receives water high in nitrites they leave a bitter taste. One
suggestion was to water the lettuce with fresh water for a few days
before harvest.
For what its worth...
Paul
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