Aquaponics Digest - Tue 12/09/97
Message 1: Quality Control Tools - aquaponics-hidroponics
from =?iso-8859-1?Q?Lu=EDs_Alberto_Ambr=F3sio?=
Message 2: Intro: Dan Hemenway
from YankeePerm
Message 3: Re: Re: Commercial aquaculture
from YankeePerm
Message 4: Double e-mail addresses:
from S & S Aqua Farm
Message 5: Mail Group Guidelines
from S & S Aqua Farm
Message 6: Re: Quality Control Tools - aquaponics-hidroponics
from Gordon Watkins
Message 7: Extruders
from steve bonney
Message 8: Re: Just the Tanks
from S & S Aqua Farm
Message 9: Re: Fish Waste Nutrients
from S & S Aqua Farm
Message 10: Re: Tilapia: Water Temperature
from S & S Aqua Farm
Message 11: Perlite
from S & S Aqua Farm
Message 12: Re: Commercial aquaculture
from S & S Aqua Farm
Message 13: Re: worms as fish feed
from S & S Aqua Farm
Message 14: Australian Possum - Protein Base?
from S & S Aqua Farm
Message 15: Re: worms as fish feed
from Gordon Watkins
Message 16: Re: Tilapia: Water Temperature
from Gordon Watkins
Message 17:
from frank131@juno.com (Franklyn A Rogers)
Message 18: Re: worms as fish feed
from "H.Doelle"
Message 19: Re: Taste of my produce & Intro
from HYDRO4U
Message 20: Re: Taste of my produce
from HYDRO4U
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| Message 1 |
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Subject: Quality Control Tools - aquaponics-hidroponics
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Lu=EDs_Alberto_Ambr=F3sio?=
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 09:06:37 -0200
Hi,
I=B4m agronomist and Dr. Economic Science.
I teacher in Universidade Uberaba, Minas Gerais, Brazil.
We have a project of research in hydroponics (lettuce, watercress).
My interest is know aspect of quality control tools applied in =
hydroponics.
You use that? How? You can send me examples?
Thanks,
Luis Alberto Ambr=F3sio
Universidade de Uberaba
Uberaba, Minas Gerais , Brazil
Ambrosio@uniube.br
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Subject: Intro: Dan Hemenway
From: YankeePerm
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 10:08:45 EST
Hi, I don't think I ever introduced myself to this list. I am mainly=0Ai=
nterested in aquaculture outdoors in semi-natural to natural conditons. =
We=0Aare in wetlands (swamp) and have an artificial pool in which some id=
iot=0Areleased water hyacinth and also have a canal and lands that are of=
ten, but=0Anot always flooded (well really every imaginable degree of wet=
ness from=0Apermanently well-drained to permanently under water). I want=
to learn about=0A1) harvesting and, perhaps promoting, crawfish and 2) a=
ny food fish acceptable=0Ato the somewhat authoritarian state of Florida =
that are tolerant of low=0Adissolved oxygen. I have limed one isolated (=
artifical) pool, which of course=0Agives a bump to CO2 for a while, as wa=
ter pH runs about 5-5.1. (Frankly, I've=0Anot remeasured pH after--used =
chunks and coarse pieces to slow the rate of=0Achange and last longer.)=
=0A=0AAll water is water table water, when the water table goes down, all=
water=0Alevels go down. I want to work with what I have. I have no inte=
rest in=0Aliners, plastic ponds, etc., in this setting. Zero, zero, zero=
. I need plans=0Afor an EFFICIENT crawfish trap. I'm using minnow traps=
and getting 3-8 per=0Aday per trap. =0A=0AOK, for the rest of introduct=
ion, I'll just past in the text from our basic=0Aflyer.=0A=0ASOLUTIONS TH=
ROUGH PERMACULTURE DESIGN=0APermaculture design brings our lives back int=
o participation with the Earth.=0APermaculturists and other environmental=
ists warn of global destruction unless=0Awe learn to live with the Earth =
rather than continuing to prey upon her.=0APermaculture trusts that the E=
arth shows us solutions to halt the destruction=0Aof the biosphere while =
sustaining ourselves in wholesome and fulfilling ways.=0AWe offer the fol=
lowing services, programs and tools as part of these=0Apermaculture solut=
ions: =0A=95 Elfin Permaculture: lectures, workshops, direct and correspo=
ndence courses,=0Atraining on the Internet, advanced training, consulting=
and permaculture=0Adesign. Most programs are hosted by individuals or gr=
oups who invite us to=0Atheir region. =0A=95 Yankee Permaculture: Publi=
shes The International Permaculture Solutions=0AJournal, PROD (Permacult=
ure Review, Overview and Digest), The Resources of=0AInternational Permac=
ulture (International Directory), The Permaculture Design=0ACourse Pamph=
let Series, about 35 Permaculture Papers & reprints, scores of=0Aunique d=
ocuments available on special order, and slide/script shows from the=0AEl=
fin Permaculture Design Course. Yankee Permaculture also distributes ke=
y=0Abooks and pamphlets relevant to Permaculture, especially those diffic=
ult to=0Aobtain elsewhere. =0A=95 Solutions Network: Work on many of th=
e projects described here is done by=0Avolunteers worldwide. We are evolv=
ing a way to work together to reduce=0Ahierarchy and integrate our effort=
s in a lateral system. =0A=95 Barking Frogs Farm: We recently purchase=
d land and buildings for our=0Apermaculture outreach, education, research=
and resource center. Internships=0Aand advance training are available h=
ere. One of our main projects is the=0Aadaptation of chinampas gardening=
methods.=0A=0APERMACULTURE DESIGN=0A=0A=09Permaculture design integrates=
people into Nature's design for the bioregion=0Aas a whole so that it is=
respected, enhanced and strengthened. People receive=0Ashelter, energy, =
food, water, income, community and aesthetic as well as=0Aspiritual fulfi=
llment as part of the permaculture design, all within a=0Abalanced biolog=
ical community. Permaculture design students learn to make=0Apractical re=
commendations to develop the natural potential of a site. They=0Aalso lea=
rn to identify the source and availability of every resource required=0At=
o implement the permaculture design. A time table for orchestrating the=
=0Aunfolding of the design and using each stage of implementation to prep=
are for=0Athe next helps to assure practical and efficient results. Thus =
the design=0Aintegrates the goals of the Earth and the people in that pla=
ce. =0AWorkshops, Courses And Other Training=0A=09Elfin Permaculture offe=
rs a variety of formats as learning experiences in=0Apermaculture. Worksh=
ops include weekends in which participants begin a=0Apermaculture design =
and intensive 10-day and two-week programs where the group=0Adevelops a f=
irst draft permaculture design for the site at hand. The three-=0Aweek =
Permaculture Design Course includes more than 100 hours of instruction=0A=
and field work and a very intensive group design project. We certify grad=
uates=0Aof the courses as Permaculture Trainees. Further training is avai=
lable through=0AElfin Permaculture's Advanced Permaculture Training (APT)=
individualized=0Aprogram in which the student uses permaculture principl=
es to design his/her=0Aeducational experience. Elfin Permaculture offers =
a Permaculture Design=0ACorrespondence course online for individuals or g=
roups unable to attend a live=0Acourse. You can get more information by r=
equesting an information sheet, using=0Athe form on this flyer. =0AINSTR=
UCTORS=0ADAN HEMENWAY, founder of Elfin Permaculture, is recognized among=
the most=0Ainnovative and effective teachers of permaculture. He has tau=
ght workshops,=0Adesign courses and advanced programs from Mexico to Cana=
da and in Europe,=0AAsia, and the Pacific, and now offers an internet Per=
maculture Design Course.=0ADan is also founder, editor and publisher of T=
he International Permaculture=0ASolutions Journal, highly regarded among=
permaculturists and PROD=0A(Permaculture Review Overview and Digest ). H=
e is program director of APT=0A(Advanced Permaculture Training), founder =
of the Forest Ecosystem Rescue=0ANetwork (FERN), and active in related mo=
vements such as remineralization. He=0Acontributes to the development of =
permaculture with ongoing work on principles=0Aof transformation. Dan ho=
lds five diplomas in various aspects of permaculture=0Afrom the Internati=
onal Permaculture Institute. He received the annual=0AConservation Award =
from Friends of Nature in 1983 and the Community Service=0AAward from the=
International Permaculture Institute in 1984. In 1991, he was=0Anamed as=
a delegate to "Roots of the Future," a conference of NGOs in Paris,=0AFr=
ance, to prepare input to the UN "Earth Summit" held in June, 1992. More=
=0Arecently, Dan was cited in Swathmore's Who=92s Who in America for 1996=
-97.=0ACYNTHIA BAXTER HEMENWAY, CNM, is partner in Elfin Permaculture and=
Associate=0AEditor of The International Permaculture Solutions Journal. =
A founding member=0Aand former director and officer of the Planetary Proj=
ect Foundation (Kansas,=0AUSA), Cynthia is a Certified Nurse Midwife and =
wholistic health practitioner=0Awith particular emphasis in working with =
women during the childbearing year.=0APresently, she teaches RN and advan=
ced practice students in the obstetrics=0Arotaton at the University of Fl=
orida, Gainesville. She brings experience in=0Aleading workshops on healt=
h and spiritual matters to permaculture as well as=0Athe intention to exp=
and the practice of permaculture in these areas. Because=0Aof the demands=
of her university work, Cynthia is available to co-lead=0Aworkshops on a=
n occasional basis. =0AINTERNS, APPRENTICES AND VOLUNTEERS=0A=09Dan and C=
ynthia have designed a variety of opportunities for interns,=0Aapprentice=
s (Advanced Permaculture Training) and volunteers, particularly in=0Aasso=
ciation with the development and work of Barking Frogs Farm. Information=
=0Ais available on request.=0A=0AFor more information contact Permacultur=
e, P.O. Box 52, Sparr FL 32192-0052=0AUSA, email Permacltur=0A
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Subject: Re: Re: Commercial aquaculture
From: YankeePerm
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 10:12:12 EST
In a message dated 12/9/97 3:42:46 AM, beaver@igrin.co.nz wrote:
>Hi
>
>On the subject of extruders, can anyone describe what these machines do,
>also what power they use.
>
>Here in New Zealand we have a plague of Australian Brush Tail Possums
>and the bodies of these animals are available in the area where I live
>as a result of trapping operations. I have tried processing them in a
>digestor but the smell is overpowering and am looking at a way to
>utilise this resource. They are similar in size and structure to a
>'large' domestic cat.
>
>Any ideas anyone.
In a message dated 12/9/97 3:42:46 AM, you wrote:
>Hi
>
>On the subject of extruders, can anyone describe what these machines do,
>also what power they use.
>
>Here in New Zealand we have a plague of Australian Brush Tail Possums
>and the bodies of these animals are available in the area where I live
>as a result of trapping operations. I have tried processing them in a
>digestor but the smell is overpowering and am looking at a way to
>utilise this resource. They are similar in size and structure to a
>'large' domestic cat.
>
>Any ideas anyone.
They are, of course, good to eat. In fact, other New Zealanders have been
marketing them to China as "Kiwi Bear." Living on the growing shoots of trees
as they do, you can't imagine a cleaner, more wholesome food. If you have
more than you can eat, or more likely want to eat, think about pigs. You
would probably have trouble importing pirahna to NZ.
For Mother Earth, Dan Hemenway, Yankee Permaculture Publications (since 1982),
Elfin Permaculture workshops, lectures, Permaculture Design Courses,
consulting and permaculture designs (since 1981), and now correspondence
courses via email. One is now underway. Next Live program: Paraguay, 8/98.
Internships available. Copyright, 1997, Dan & Cynthia Hemenway, P.O. Box 52,
Sparr FL 32192 USA YankeePerm
We don't have time to rush.
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Subject: Double e-mail addresses:
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 10:37:20 -0600
At 06:59 PM 11/29/97 -0600, you wrote:
>Paula,
>I looked at the return message again. My company uses aliases as well
>as formal addresses.
Message received by Dale:
>> >Sorry, only list members and the moderator
>> >may send mail to this list.
>> >You can join the list by sending a reply to this message, with
>> >SUBSCRIBE aquaponics
>> >in the message body.
Dale and other members. We've encountered problems with Dale's e-mail
software showing two addresses - one in the "from" line, and a second one in
the "reply to" line. This prevented him from sending to the list, although
he could receive our messages.
We've just been enabled to subscribe third party addresses from our address.
If anyone else is encountering this type problem, please send a description
of both your addresses to us via private e-mail, and we'll enter the address
from here and see if this allows us all to participate equally.
Paula Speraneo
S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO 65775 417-256-5124
Web page http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
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Subject: Mail Group Guidelines
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 11:06:44 -0600
Just a quick note to restate a couple of policies which will make it easier
for those of us who must pay by the minute for access. (I think some of us
get spoiled with our flat rate per month, unlimited access, no toll call
providers. There are others who must pay $.03 per minute, and others that
are probably higher).
When replying to a message, be sure the subject line matches the current
topic of discussion. If you change the topic from "introduction" to
"extruders", please make that change for those of us trying to follow a
particular thread.
Also, please do not leave all text from the original message in your reply,
unless absolutely necessary for clarity. This requires much additional
storage space for those of us trying to maintain files on these important
subjects. Instead, simply snip out the irrelevant portions, and leave in
the section to which you are responding.
Thanks to all for participating - sorry to have to use more time and space
for this notice, but I think we'll all benefit shortly.
Paula Speraneo
S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO 65775 417-256-5124
Web page http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
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Subject: Re: Quality Control Tools - aquaponics-hidroponics
From: Gordon Watkins
Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 11:25:24 -0600
Hello Luis,
By "Quality control tools" do you mean methods of testing water quality
parameters?
I use simple aquarium test kits to to perform colorimetric sampling for
pH, ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate and a titration test for dissolved
oxygen. These are very simple and inexpensive tests which will provide
basic indications of water quality. I would recommend one of the more
complete hydroponic test kits which allow testing for the above plus
phosphorus, sulfate, calcium, magnesium, potassium, and iron. The cost
is around $300, US. The next step up is probes and meters which can
provide spot testing or continuous monitoring of pH, ammonia, nitrate,
ORP, conductivity, salinity, TDS, BOD, dissolved oxygen, total dissolved
gas pressure, and turbidity, etc. Prices range from $50 -$1500.
In addition to measuring water parameters, it may be useful for
research purposes to also monitor plant tissue to measure nutrient
uptake. It's possible to have acceptable nutrient levels in the water
but deficiencies in the plant tissue due to micronutrient imbalances,
pH, etc. This sort of testing is best done by University or private
laboratories, IMO. It's important to know the optimum nutrient profile
for the crops you are growing, which will vary from crop to crop, to
provide a baseline for assessing your foliar analysis results. This
information is available for most major crops through the horticulture
departments of most major universities.
Hope this helps.
Regards, Gordon Watkins
Luís Alberto Ambrósio wrote:
>
> Hi,
> I´m agronomist and Dr. Economic Science.
> I teacher in Universidade Uberaba, Minas Gerais, Brazil.
> We have a project of research in hydroponics (lettuce, watercress).
> My interest is know aspect of quality control tools applied in hydroponics.
> You use that? How? You can send me examples?
> Thanks,
>
> Luis Alberto Ambrósio
> Universidade de Uberaba
> Uberaba, Minas Gerais , Brazil
> Ambrosio@uniube.br
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Subject: Extruders
From: steve bonney
Gordon,
I have passed along your message to Bob Leader, who is actively involved in
the production of extruded oils. Several years ago he developed a "lobster
bar" from full fatted extruded soybean meal and some of his products have
been involved in aquatic feed trials. I also sent instructions to subscribe
to this list, so he should be joining us soon, so you can ask info of him
directly.
Best,
Steve
At 05:55 PM 12/7/97 EST, you wrote:
>In a message dated 97-12-05 10:55:21 EST, you write:
>
><< Ben,
> Do you know where such small extruders can be purchased and the price
> range? I'm interested in home-made extruded feeds not only for fish but
> poulty as well.
> Thanks, Gordon
> >>
>Gordon,
> I don't have any infromation on suppliers at this time. Wenger is a
>manufacturer of large capacity extruders, but I had found an import from
>Germany that cost aroud $3000. and I have also seen a Japanese manufactured
>model for less money. I've been out of the business to long to be current. I
>will look around and let you know.
>
>Ben
>
>
Steve Bonney
Sustainable Earth, Inc.
Indiana Sustainable Agriculture Association
100 Georgton Ct.
W. Lafayette IN 47906
ph. (765) 463-9366
fax (765) 497-0164
email sbonney@iquest.net
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Subject: Re: Just the Tanks
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 14:22:29 -0600
Thanks to all who had input into this thread. It appears there are many
potential sources for long-lasting tanks.
The decision on tanks will depend to a large extent on your ultimate needs
regarding size, use, extent of trial (if any) before moving to larger
systems. We've archived this thread (sort of) in a file for anyone who came
on late and would like a direct copy of all this correspondence.
We (at S&S Aqua Farm) use several 800-1,000 gallon tanks from PolyTank, in
black to make use of solar heat benefits, and also to segregate our
production and risk limits per unit (Tom calls them nodes).
Paula Speraneo
S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO 65775 417-256-5124
Web page http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
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| Message 9 |
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Subject: Re: Fish Waste Nutrients
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 14:22:33 -0600
At 07:56 PM 12/2/97 -0500, FranksFarm wrote:
>Hi,
>I understand the principle of recycling fish waste nutrients though a garden
>bed.
>My question is can you overload , or overdose plants with too much such
>nutrient that could cause potential growth, taste etc. problems?
Frank - Systems can be overloaded, resulting in poor water quality, poor
fish health, and off-taste of fish and/or plants.
There are a multitude of testing instruments available to monitor nutrients
and keep them stable. Hydroponics and aquaculture suppliers carry many
different items for the purpose of testing nutrients and fish water quality.
We've found, however, that with the system we use, visual is best.
If the water becomes cloudy, we decrease feed and double check water flow
through the growing beds (Sometimes beds become clogged and just need
cleaning to restore throughput), evaluate fish loading in that particular
system, evaluate plant growth state (sometimes too many small plants will
not give sufficient filtration for the quantity of fish). Most problems
will equalize over a day's time. If not, the evaluation goes deeper.
Paula Speraneo
S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO 65775 417-256-5124
Web page http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
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Subject: Re: Tilapia: Water Temperature
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 14:22:35 -0600
At 08:44 AM 12/4/97 EST, FranksFarm wrote:
>Someone wrote that the ideal water temperature for Tilapia is 82 degrees F.
>It would seem to me to be fairly expensive to keep water at such a temperature
>in areas of even moderate winter temperatures for a commercial operation.
>Isn't there a range of acceptable water temperature where fish will thrive but
>perhaps not grow as fast?
There are many different varieties of Tilapia, with different temperature
tolerance levels. Although that is the desired water temperature for
maximum growth, it also can contribute to fish health problems, as well as
increase cost of operation. We don't maintain that temperature through the
winter, and accept a slower rate of gain for the fish in exchange for
maintaining nutrient levels sufficient to continue our crops (which are the
product with the quickest turn in our system).
>Is there a table that will show growth anticipated at various water
>temperatures?
Perhaps you could review the info at the American Tilapia Association pages
for this type info. Haven't searched for it myself. Anyone else know?
Paula Speraneo
S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO 65775 417-256-5124
Web page http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
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| Message 11 |
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Subject: Perlite
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 14:22:37 -0600
At 03:19 PM 12/2/97 -0800, Donald Trotter wrote:
>>Hi george!
>Have you considered PERLITE? It is being used al over the world in
>hydroponics and sooilless applications.
Donald -
Thanks for the detailed post on perlite.
With you experience, do you feel that perlite has a tendency to clog with
solids, or does it retain its drainage capabilities even after extended use.
Can bacteria thrive in this media (good bacteria, of course, needing lots of
oxygen for healthy systems)?
Would be interested in your comments.
Paula Speraneo
S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO 65775 417-256-5124
Web page http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
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| Message 12 |
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Subject: Re: Commercial aquaculture
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 14:22:39 -0600
At 03:01 PM 12/4/97 -0500, Ben Cloud wrote:
>I'm glad to pass on my conclusions from hard economic experience, however, I
>am not an expert. I'm glad to be in this discussion group to continue to
>build on my experiences.
>Ben Cloud
>Gromax Co.
Ben - thanks for the information on your growing experience. I'm certain
everyone picked up much useful information. For those new to the list, I've
saved this thread and would be happy to forward privately to you.
Paula Speraneo
S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO 65775 417-256-5124
Web page http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
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| Message 13 |
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Subject: Re: worms as fish feed
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 14:22:41 -0600
At 08:23 AM 12/4/97 -0600, Gordon Watkins wrote:
>
>You are correct that the nutritional value of the worm is dependant on a
>great many things. Not only
>the feed stock but the species and worm "preparation" as well (freeze
>dried, oven dried, made into
>a paste, fed after freezing, etc.). I can tell you that a study was done
>specifically on Tilapia fish in
>1983. It was determined that the fish grew better when supplimented with
>Perionyx excavatus than
>when fed with other supplements.
Gordon - after all your years experience with tropicals/ornamentals, do you
feel the practice of supplementing fish feed with dried worm products has a
net positive or negative affect on fish health. Are there diseases that can
be transmitted through this practice? Would we be better to be producing,
within our own systems, the worms used in the process? Would we then limit
our exposure to outside problems?
Paula
S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO 65775 417-256-5124
Web page http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
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| Message 14 |
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Subject: Australian Possum - Protein Base?
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 14:44:25 -0600
At 10:12 AM 12/9/97 EST, Dan Hemenway wrote:
>In a message dated 12/9/97 3:42:46 AM, beaver@igrin.co.nz wrote:
>>On the subject of extruders, can anyone describe what these machines do,
>>also what power they use.
>>
>>Here in New Zealand we have a plague of Australian Brush Tail Possums
>>and the bodies of these animals are available in the area where I live
>>as a result of trapping operations. I have tried processing them in a
>>digestor but the smell is overpowering and am looking at a way to
>>utilise this resource. They are similar in size and structure to a
>>'large' domestic cat.
>They are, of course, good to eat. In fact, other New Zealanders have been
>marketing them to China as "Kiwi Bear." Living on the growing shoots of trees
>as they do, you can't imagine a cleaner, more wholesome food. If you have
>more than you can eat, or more likely want to eat, think about pigs. You
>would probably have trouble importing pirahna to NZ.
>
>For Mother Earth, Dan Hemenway, Yankee Permaculture Publications (since 1982),
The original thread, I believe, was under the subject of extruders for fish
feed. Perhaps Dr. Doelle or someone else would comment on the process
required for using this type "protein" as a base for fish feed safely.
Paula Speraneo
S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO 65775 417-256-5124
Web page http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
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| Message 15 |
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Subject: Re: worms as fish feed
From: Gordon Watkins
Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 16:07:12 -0600
Hi Paula,
My experience with dried worm products is limited to the occasional use
of freeze-dried tubifex and bloodworms. I found that the fish relished
them but that feeding had to be limited or digestive problems would
appear. From what I understand, freeze-drying destroys most pathogens. I
know that live tubifex, which I've also used, are nasty creatures,
typically found in sewage effluent, and must be carefully purged before
feeding and even then I think it's a risky food source. Earthworms, on
the other hand, I've never considered to be a source of pathogens, but I
could be wrong.
My original question which started this thread had to do with raising
worms, specifically red wigglers, in a greenhouse vermicomposting system
fed on kitchen wastes and crop residue, or maybe in the beds, as a food
source for my fish. I would only be feeding them live and was asking
about their nutritional value. So far I've not gotten an answer but I'm
still searching. BTW, I followed up on the Perionyx excavatus question
and determined that they are not a suitable species for a greenhouse
environment (they're notorious escapees) and that red wigglers are the
most suitable.
Regards, Gordon
S & S Aqua Farm wrote:
>
>> Gordon - after all your years experience with tropicals/ornamentals, do you
> feel the practice of supplementing fish feed with dried worm products has a
> net positive or negative affect on fish health. Are there diseases that can
> be transmitted through this practice? Would we be better to be producing,
> within our own systems, the worms used in the process? Would we then limit
> our exposure to outside problems?
>
> Paula
>
>
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| Message 16 |
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Subject: Re: Tilapia: Water Temperature
From: Gordon Watkins
Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 16:18:05 -0600
Paula- What temperatures due you maintain your tilapia at during winter
and summer? When the temp falls in the winter I assume you reduce feed
which will result in a drop in nutrient levels for your plants. Do you
adjust your winter crop choices accordingly, growing more lettuce and
fewer tomatoes, for example?
Also, what sort of health problems have you encountered which you
attribute to high water temps? I know that DO levels drop as temp rises
and that ammonia can do the same, both of which can lower the fish's
resistance and encourage disease. But are you seeing certain diseases
directly caused by higher temps? I understand that T. nilotica is one of
the commonly cultured species which is known to tolerate lower temps.
Regards, Gordon
& S Aqua Farm wrote:
>
> There are many different varieties of Tilapia, with different temperature
> tolerance levels. Although that is the desired water temperature for
> maximum growth, it also can contribute to fish health problems, as well as
> increase cost of operation. We don't maintain that temperature through the
> winter, and accept a slower rate of gain for the fish in exchange for
> maintaining nutrient levels sufficient to continue our crops (which are the
> product with the quickest turn in our system).
>
> >
> Paula Speraneo
>
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| Message 18 |
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Subject: Re: worms as fish feed
From: "H.Doelle"
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 10:18:24 +1100
Hallo Gordon,
One quick comment. Freeze-drying is the method used to PRESERVE
microorganisms of all kinds including pathogens. FREEZE-DRYING DOES NOT KILL
PATHOGENS OR ANY MICROORGANISM . Be careful !!
Every Culture Collection is using this method for preservation.
Cheers Horst
Horst W.Doelle,D.Sc.
Director, MIRCEN-Biotechnology Brisbane
Chairman, IOBB
Hon.Member of Depts. Microbiology & Chemical Engineering
FAX: +617-38783230
Email: H.Doelle@mailbox.uq.edu.au
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| Message 19 |
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Subject: Re: Taste of my produce & Intro
From: HYDRO4U
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 20:37:49 EST
In a message dated 97-12-08 21:45:37 EST, you write:
> The writer in me also is intrigued by some points mentioned here. Rather
> than clogging up the list and irritating those who are here for straight
> information, I'll keep those queries to private e-mail.
>
> laurap@sky.net
> Laura Phillips
> Holt, Missouri
Laura,
I would bet many subscribed to this list would be just as interested
in the questions that come to your mind. Don't leave us out if you
even think someone else might benefit from the question as well as
the answer.
Carl
Carl O. Anderson Virginia Hydroponics, Inc.
(757) 490-5425 368 Newtown Rd. #105
HYDRO4U Virginia Beach, VA 23462
Teacher Resource Center http://www.hydro4u.com
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| Message 20 |
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Subject: Re: Taste of my produce
From: HYDRO4U
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 20:37:43 EST
In a message dated 97-12-08 20:45:35 EST, you write:
> This is Peter Theisen again. Remember I have a small system where I use
> the water from the Tilapia tank to grow vegetables in a gravel bed under
> metal halide lamps. For fish food I use either Purina Trout Chow (approx
> 40% protein) or Purina Catfish Cage Chow (approx 32% protein) My Question
> is: Why does my lettuce taste more bitter than that grown outside and why
> do my radishes come out so tasting so sharp? I am trying to figure out if
> it is the "fish tank water and it related nutrients", or if it is the "high
> temperature of the growing bed and the space below the lamps where my
> produce grows " (approx. 75 to 90 deg F), or whether it is a "result of
> growing with metal halide lamps". Does anyone have an idea?
>
> Pete T.
Peter,
I would bet on the high temperature being the most significant
of the factors you mention and nutrient/pH levels as another
contributor. Many lettuces will bolt (go to seed) at higher
temperatures and I tell you, every bolted lettuce I have tried
was very bitter.
Carl
Carl O. Anderson Virginia Hydroponics, Inc.
(757) 490-5425 368 Newtown Rd. #105
HYDRO4U Virginia Beach, VA 23462
Teacher Resource Center http://www.hydro4u.com
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