Aquaponics Digest - Sun 03/15/98
Message 1: RE: Animals in the greenhouse (wasRe: Introduction)
from Jacky Foo
Message 2: Re: Animals in the greenhouse (wasRe: Introduction)
from "Ted Ground"
Message 3: Re: Animals in the greenhouse (wasRe: Introduction)
from "Ted Ground"
Message 4: Re: Animals in the greenhouse (wasRe: Introduction)
from GCR
Message 5: Re: Animals in the greenhouse (wasRe: Introduction)
from Gordon Watkins
Message 6: new questions
from "dbell"
Message 7: Re: Animals in the greenhouse (wasRe: Introduction)
from Gordon Watkins
Message 8: Re: new questions
from Gordon Watkins
Message 9: Solviva Greenhouse
from "Ed Sommers"
Message 10: Re: Roof water diverter
from Ian Beaver
Message 11: Intro
from "Sandy S. Brown"
Message 12: New Scientist: A controversial definition of organic food is
under attack (fwd)
from donald trotter
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| Message 1 |
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Subject: RE: Animals in the greenhouse (wasRe: Introduction)
From: Jacky Foo
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 10:59:09 +0100
----------
From: Gordon Watkins
>Anna Edey, who created Solviva greenhouse on Martha's Vineyard, devised
>an interesting way to remove ammonia from the atmosphere of her gh.
>...........a "water-wall" which absorbed the heat generated by the
animals as well as solar radiation from the gh side.
very interesting....I wonder how much of electricity it uses for air pumps
and water pumps ?
I cant visualise how the water-wall looks like. I have seen cooling systems
where water is pumped up a structure and allowed to trickle down a support
(glass sheet, packed plant fibres, etc). How would the system look like to
absorb heat for air and sun ?
What temperatures do you have in the gh in winter ? and what temp increases
do you get with these water-wall and heat from the stable ?
Pumping air from the animal house into compost (rather than just dirt)
would also release the compost heat into the gh.
regards
jacky
http://home2.swipnet.se/~w-25860/icibs/prog.htm
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| Message 2 |
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Subject: Re: Animals in the greenhouse (wasRe: Introduction)
From: "Ted Ground"
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 05:18:33 -0600
Howdy to all,
Something just occurred to me in the vein of the last few postings. Does
anyone recall the use of airplane plants (indoor plants) used to remove
indoor pollutants such as formaldehyde, etc? In the most elaborate system
I saw, a fan was installed near or under or within the planter box of a
dense bed of a variety of indoor plants, and the room air was brought near
or through the box many times a day. I am wondering if the airborne
ammonia ya'll were referring to might be absorbed by such a system- this
sounds similar to the earth lung Gordon referred to. I'm sure NASA Tech
Briefs has published on something like this- but my memory fails me here.
Ted
----------
> From: Jacky Foo
> To: 'aquaponics@townsqr.com'
> Subject: RE: Animals in the greenhouse (wasRe: Introduction)
> Date: Sunday, March 15, 1998 3:59 AM
>
>
>
> ----------
> From: Gordon Watkins
> >Anna Edey, who created Solviva greenhouse on Martha's Vineyard, devised
> >an interesting way to remove ammonia from the atmosphere of her gh.
> >...........a "water-wall" which absorbed the heat generated by the
> animals as well as solar radiation from the gh side.
>
> very interesting....I wonder how much of electricity it uses for air
pumps
> and water pumps ?
>
> I cant visualise how the water-wall looks like. I have seen cooling
systems
> where water is pumped up a structure and allowed to trickle down a
support
> (glass sheet, packed plant fibres, etc). How would the system look like
to
> absorb heat for air and sun ?
>
> What temperatures do you have in the gh in winter ? and what temp
increases
> do you get with these water-wall and heat from the stable ?
>
> Pumping air from the animal house into compost (rather than just dirt)
> would also release the compost heat into the gh.
>
> regards
> jacky
> http://home2.swipnet.se/~w-25860/icibs/prog.htm
>
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| Message 3 |
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Subject: Re: Animals in the greenhouse (wasRe: Introduction)
From: "Ted Ground"
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 05:23:02 -0600
Howdy to all,
Something just occurred to me in the vein of the last few postings. Does
anyone recall the use of airplane plants (indoor plants) used to remove
indoor pollutants such as formaldehyde, etc? In the most elaborate system
I saw, a fan was installed near or under or within the planter box of a
dense bed of a variety of indoor plants, and the room air was brought near
or through the box many times a day. I am wondering if the airborne
ammonia ya'll were referring to might be absorbed by such a system- this
sounds similar to the earth lung Gordon referred to. I'm sure NASA Tech
Briefs has published on something like this- but my memory fails me here.
Ted
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| Message 4 |
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Subject: Re: Animals in the greenhouse (wasRe: Introduction)
From: GCR
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 08:35:11 +0000
She then came up with the ingenious "earth lung" in which the
>stable air was vented into coarse rock beneath a dirt growing bed. As
>the CO2 laden air percolated up through the soil and into the gh
>atmosphere, the ammonia was absorbed by a nitrogen-loving crop like
>beets, which was later sacrificed to the compost
pile. With this system,
>she successfully combined animals and plants in a gh.
> Gordon
>
>
>
Why were they sacrificed to the compost pile? Did she just not like
beets or is there a problem?
Donna Fezler
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| Message 5 |
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Subject: Re: Animals in the greenhouse (wasRe: Introduction)
From: Gordon Watkins
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 13:10:35 -0600
It's been several years since I participated in a workshop with Ms Edey,
but I assume her greenhouse is still operating. It was entirely solar
powered, including small pumps and fans powered by pv.
The water wall was a wood scaffolding structure with, I think, black
plastic gargage bags filled with water stacked from floor to ceiling. As
I recall she also tried plastic milk jugs. The water was heated by solar
gain from the gh side and heat generated by the animals on the
other.(She stated that a chicken produces .5 btu/hr!)
I don't recall the exact temps she was maintaining or how much gain she
calculated from the animal component. She was growing primarily a wide
variety of lettuces (mesclun mixes) which she air shipped daily into the
Boston area, so she was probably maintaining a cool gh.
Just so this doesn't seem too off-topic, she also had a small pond with
koi and goldfish which was connected by thermosiphon to coils of black
hose on a shelf in the gh peak. The water acted as a heat sink and she
used it to water the plants.
Gordon
Jacky Foo wrote:
>
> ----------
> From: Gordon Watkins
> >Anna Edey, who created Solviva greenhouse on Martha's Vineyard, devised
> >an interesting way to remove ammonia from the atmosphere of her gh.
> >...........a "water-wall" which absorbed the heat generated by the
> animals as well as solar radiation from the gh side.
>
> very interesting....I wonder how much of electricity it uses for air pumps
> and water pumps ?
>
> I cant visualise how the water-wall looks like. I have seen cooling systems
> where water is pumped up a structure and allowed to trickle down a support
> (glass sheet, packed plant fibres, etc). How would the system look like to
> absorb heat for air and sun ?
>
> What temperatures do you have in the gh in winter ? and what temp increases
> do you get with these water-wall and heat from the stable ?
>
> Pumping air from the animal house into compost (rather than just dirt)
> would also release the compost heat into the gh.
>
> regards
> jacky
> http://home2.swipnet.se/~w-25860/icibs/prog.htm
>
> Name: WINMAIL.DAT
> Part 1.2 Type: All (image/any)
> Encoding: x-uuencode
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| Message 6 |
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Subject: new questions
From: "dbell"
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 14:18:45 -0500
1 - How much light do tilapia require as in could I partially cover the =
tank with a grow bed, say 50%.
=20
2 - Could Ian describe the rain water dump in more detail please. I have =
already connected my drainpipes in anticipation of using the roof run =
off for aquaponics because I'm on town water that is heavily =
chlorinated. the idea of that first flush is a good one.
=20
=20
3 - I am in town and on thought that has nagged me is that is the odur =
level emanating out of a aquaponics system going to be a problem with my =
nabours.
.
Can't think of anything else at the moment but I'm sure more thoughts =
will come to me.
=20
thank you
Jim bell
dbell@forterie.com
=20
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| Message 7 |
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Subject: Re: Animals in the greenhouse (wasRe: Introduction)
From: Gordon Watkins
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 13:15:48 -0600
Because they contain toxic amounts of Nitrogen.
GCR wrote:
>
> She then came up with the ingenious "earth lung" in which the
> >stable air was vented into coarse rock beneath a dirt growing bed. As
>
> >the CO2 laden air percolated up through the soil and into the gh
> >atmosphere, the ammonia was absorbed by a nitrogen-loving crop like
> >beets, which was later sacrificed to the compost pile. With this
> system,
> >she successfully combined animals and plants in a gh.
> > Gordon
> >
> >
> >
> Why were they sacrificed to the compost pile? Did she just not like
> beets or is there a problem?
>
> Donna Fezler
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| Message 8 |
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Subject: Re: new questions
From: Gordon Watkins
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 13:27:57 -0600
Regarding light, I don't know how much tilapia require, but mine are
kept in vats beneath a slatted walkway which provides 50% shade and
they're doing well. A possible disadvantage is that I have clear, rather
than green, water so I'm probably missing out on some free supplemental
feed.
Gordon
dbell wrote:
>
>
>
> 1 - How much light do tilapia require as in could I partially cover
> the tank with a grow bed, say 50%.
>
> 2 - Could Ian describe the rain water dump in more detail please. I
> have already connected my drainpipes in anticipation of using the roof
> run off for aquaponics because I'm on town water that is heavily
> chlorinated. the idea of that first flush is a good one.
>
>
> 3 - I am in town and on thought that has nagged me is that is the odur
> level emanating out of a aquaponics system going to be a problem with
> my nabours.
> .
> Can't think of anything else at the moment but I'm sure more thoughts
> will come to me.
>
> thank you
> Jim bell
> dbell@forterie.com
>
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| Message 9 |
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Subject: Solviva Greenhouse
From: "Ed Sommers"
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 12:49:56 -0000
There is an excellent article by Anna Edey on her Greenhouse in the spring
1994 (Volume 5 Number 3) issue of The Growing Edge, if you can find or
order one.
In the article she states that at 4 a.m. one night in 1994, during a
blizzard with below zero temps she got up to check on her greenhouse and
after shoveling away the 5-foot snowdrift blocking the entrance she found
the greenhouse temp at a balmy 55 degrees and the animal side was 70! She
uses 4 layers of a special film.
Ed
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| Message 10 |
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Subject: Re: Roof water diverter
From: Ian Beaver
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 09:12:39 +1300
dbell wrote:
>
> 2 - Could Ian describe the rain water dump in more detail please. I
> have already connected my drainpipes in anticipation of using the roof
> run off for aquaponics because I'm on town water that is heavily
> chlorinated. the idea of that first flush is a good one.
>
You've caught me a bit here, since I have seen these things and seen
designs for them, I think in a permaculture manual. I can only describe
the basic principle at this stage. The idea is that you have a
container, such as a 10L bucket, with a small hole in the bottom, so
that it empties between rains. This bucket sits under your spouting
outlet and fills up with the first shower. The bucket sits on an off
centre pivot, arranged so that when it gets full, it tips over, a
little, the weight of the water, activating a diverter channel that
connects the spouting water to the tank. After the rain stops, the
bucket empties through the small hole, and returns to its reset
position.
I have seen a commercial one on the market here, but cant lay my hands
on the details at this point. Sorry.
Ill get in touch if I find anything, and ill try to contact some people
who might know, but they are out of town today.
Regards
Ian
Hope this helps.
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| Message 11 |
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Subject: Intro
From: "Sandy S. Brown"
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 19:27:34 -0500
Hi,
I'm a week-old lurker, here at the recommendation of Jim Rakocy, who
introduced me to the concept of aquaponics last May. I'm the technician
for the Aquatic Medicine Lab in the College of Veterinary Medicine at
Virginia Tech, so I'd already been growing fish at work for several years.
My husband, Ralph Birkenmaier, was in the process of building an 8X11 ft.
greenhouse on the end of our woodshed to extend our growing season
(somewhat unpredictable, here in the mountains of southwestern Virginia),
and to give protection from marauding deer, who won't take "no" for an
answer. We had purchased a 65-gallon plastic preformed "pond," for
ornament in the greenhouse but, having grown trees and tomatoes in
greenhouses in previous jobs at Tech, I wasn't really excited with the idea
of finding a way to water large numbers of potted plants 2-3 times a day
during the warm season. Aquaponics was such a sensible idea that we
annexed an 8X8 ft. section of the woodshed, and are now planning an
attached greenhouse and a much larger free-standing one.
We started out in late fall with yellow perch fingerlings in our "pond," so
that we don't have to worry much about keeping them warm, since we're
basically uninsulated--cold weather and life intruded. Our only
supplemental heating is a 1500W water heater element on a timer, that comes
on for two one-hour periods per night. Several mornings ago, the outside
air temperature was 0F, the greenhouse air temperature was 12F, and the
water temperature was 39F; the Swiss chard was a bit startled, lettuce
reaction was dependent on variety, but the spinach was unfazed. We have
found that plants tend to grow v-e-r-y slowly at these temperatures. We're
toying with the idea of running a water coil through a propane demand water
heater and blowing the heat into the air, heating the air directly in some
manner, just heating the water in some way....What have other people found
to be the most efficient method? Or will we be OK if we just get ourselves
in gear, and insulate before spring arrives? We'd like to stay, as much as
possible, with propane and something that is or could be made compatible
with a 24-volt power system, since we want to cut the tie that binds to
the power company, and use solar and/or wind for all of our power
requirements.
I'm also wondering about CO2 supplementation. How necessary/helpful is it?
We didn't use any sort of supplementation in growing pin oaks or tomatoes
at work, or with the sunflowers I grew hydroponically during my
undergraduate research days at Tech.
Thanks, Paula and Tom, for providing this forum, and to all of the
participants. We'll throw in our two-cents worth, when we can.
Sandy Brown
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| Message 12 |
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Subject: New Scientist: A controversial definition of organic food is
under attack (fwd)
From: donald trotter
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 11:57:39 -0800
Hi Aquapanickers:
I got this information from Lawrence London off of the Sanet. I know that
many of you run "organic" programs and thought that a brief update on the
NOP might prove useful.
Donald W. Trotter Ph.D.
Organic Resources
>
>>New Scientist March 7, 1998
>>Nature's bounty
>> Kurt Kleiner (Washington DC)
>> A controversial definition of organic food is under attack
>>>> THE US government seems poised to abandon a plan to allow food treated
>>with radiation, fertilised with sewage sludge or created by genetic
>>engineering to carry an official "organic" label. After receiving a
>>deluge
>>of complaints from buyers and sellers of organic produce, the US
>>Department
>>of Agriculture
>>>> (USDA) has told activists that it will think again.
>>>>
>>>> Members of a delegation
>>>> that met a senior USDA official last week say they were promised
>>>> that the rules would be changed. "The uproar is so loud, so
>>>> dramatic, that they have literally hundreds of thousands of eyes
>>>> on them in a rule-making process that usually only 20 or 30
>>>> people are interested in," says Bob Scowcroft, executive
>>>> director of the Organic Farming Research Foundation in Santa
>>>> Cruz, California.
>>>> The organic industry itself had asked for national standards
>>>> on organic labelling. At present, different states in the US
>>>> have different requirements for an organic label, and some have
>>>> no rules at all.
>>>> Most people who buy organic food do so in the expectation of
>>>> obtaining entirely "natural" products. But the USDA rules,
>>>> published last December, ignored the advice of an advisory board
>>>> from the organic food business and focused more narrowly on the
>>>> use of chemical pesticides and fertilisers. Provided none of
>>>> these were used, the USDA wanted food to be labelled organic
>>>> even if it contained genetically engineered material or had
>>>> been irradiated to kill microorganisms. The proposed rules would
>>>> also allow the use of fertiliser made from sewage sludge.
>>>> Since then, the USDA has received about 10 000 comments, most of
>>>> them negative. Last week, deputy agriculture secretary Richard
>>>> Rominger met a delegation of critics. Margaret Mellon, who lobbies in
>>>> Washington DC on agricultural issues for the Union of Concerned
>>>> Scientists, says the group was promised that the rules would be
>>>> changed to satisfy the organic food industry.
>>>> Rominger would not comment on what he said, and a USDA
>>>> spokesman stresses that no final decision has been made. But the
>>>> period for public comment on the proposed rules, which was
>>>> supposed to end in mid-March, has been extended until the end
>>>> of April because of the massive response.
>>>> While some activists are already claiming a victory, others
>>>> remain cautious. Scowcroft, for one, is waiting until he sees
>>>> the wording of the revised rules. It is still possible, he
>>>> warns, that the rules could set off a new transatlantic trade
>>>> war.
>>>> The European Union has enforced a common standard for
>>>> organic plant produce since 1991. It rules out irradiation and
>>>> the use of sewage sludge. A ban on organic labelling for
>>>> genetically modified crops, already applied voluntarily by
>>>> member states, will be added this year, and rules for organic
>>>> livestock are expected to be agreed soon.
>>>> So if the USDA rules differ significantly from these
>>>> standards, Scowcroft suggests that European countries might seek
>>>> to exclude US "organic" exports.
>
>
>To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with "unsubscribe sanet-mg".
>To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command
>"subscribe sanet-mg-digest".
>
Donald Trotter
The Organic Resource Centre
293 Neptune Ave.
Encinitas, CA. 92024
curly@mill.net
1.888.514.4004
fax- 760.632.8175
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