Aquaponics Digest - Tue 03/17/98
Message 1: Re: Animals in the greenhouse (wasRe: Introduction)
from Whichwind
Message 2: Re: Animals in the greenhouse (wasRe: Introduction)
from Gordon Watkins
Message 3: Re: Gordon Watkins Fruit Splitting
from Gordon Watkins
Message 4: Solviva Greenhouse
from "Ed Sommers"
Message 5: Introduction & tomato splitting comment
from J. Hank Morton
Message 6: Re: Solviva Greenhouse
from S & S Aqua Farm
Message 7: Seaweed Extract addition for aquaponics systems
from S & S Aqua Farm
Message 8: Re: Introduction & tomato splitting comment
from "H.Doelle"
Message 9: Tilapia Harvests
from S & S Aqua Farm
Message 10: Lettuce
from S & S Aqua Farm
Message 11: Heat and CO2
from S & S Aqua Farm
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Subject: Re: Animals in the greenhouse (wasRe: Introduction)
From: Whichwind
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 09:25:21 EST
In a message dated 98-03-15 14:18:14 EST, you write:
<< It's been several years since I participated in a workshop with Ms Edey,
but I assume her greenhouse is still operating. >>
Gordon,
Could you tell me what town on the Vineyard she is located? I live south of
Boston, and could easily hop over to the island and visit.
Thanks.
Cheryl
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Subject: Re: Animals in the greenhouse (wasRe: Introduction)
From: Gordon Watkins
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 09:38:12 -0600
Cheryl,
I don't recall the exact town. Maybe someone who has the copy of
Growing Edge mentioned previously can let you know.
Gordon
Whichwind wrote:
>
> In a message dated 98-03-15 14:18:14 EST, you write:
>
> << It's been several years since I participated in a workshop with Ms Edey,
> but I assume her greenhouse is still operating. >>
>
> Gordon,
> Could you tell me what town on the Vineyard she is located? I live south of
> Boston, and could easily hop over to the island and visit.
> Thanks.
> Cheryl
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Subject: Re: Gordon Watkins Fruit Splitting
From: Gordon Watkins
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 09:49:26 -0600
Thanks for the tip, Emmett. What seaweed product do you use and at what
rate? I used maxicrop as a foliar spray until fruit began to set then
discontinued its use due concern with flavoring the fruit (sashimi
tomatoes?). I considered adding it directly to the water and in fact did
a test with a goldfish in an aquarium, and you're right, the fish seemed
to like it. After 2 weeks the fish was larger and more intensely colored
than it's untreated siblings. I've been reluctant to use it in my
aquaponic system though, due to the heavy tinting of the water which
makes it nearly impossible to see the fish. It would be difficult to
observe for disease problems, morts, not to mention harvesting. I find
that the behavior of the fish is the best indicator of system health so
I'm reluctant to compromise observability. Perhaps you're using another
product which doesn't tint the water? I have a green liquid product
called Algamin which I use as a foliar spray on field crops. I think
I'll try a test with it. Any more details on what and how you use
seaweed would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Gordon
Peggy & Emmett Hoebel wrote:
>
> For geographies' sake, let's say I live in Tampa,Florida
>
> Last year I grew heirloom tomatoes in my garden thru August(most people
> can't get their tomatoes to grow to mid June), and Sweet 100's in my
> aquaponic system. I sprayed my garden tomatoes with kelp spray and
> introduced kelp into my aquaponics system. Apparently the minor elements
> contained in kelp help the plants thru "water uptake stress".
> Tomatoe splitting is a problem where I live because the extreme summer heat
> causes rapid drying of the soil followed by as much as 5 inches of rainfall
> in an hour. Fruit splitting in citrus is also a problem. Rapid uptake of
> water causes the fruit to split. Yet, if the citrus tree is sprayed several
> times a year with a minor element spray the fruit doesn't split. It seems
> that while rapid water uptake is the instigating factor in fruit splitting
> the causitive factor is the lack of minor elements.
> Applying this logic to my splitting tomatoes, and trying to stay organic, I
> tried seaweed spray and it worked. As I poured the liquid into my fish
> tank I wondered what would happen. Nothing happened. Fish don't care.
> Hope this helps............Emmett
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Subject: Solviva Greenhouse
From: "Ed Sommers"
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 08:18:07 -0000
Info is from Spring of 1994, but at that time Anna Edey, owner of Aolviva
indicated that information on the Solviva greenhouse, technology, designs
and know-how was available from:
Solviva, RFD Box 582, Vineyard Haven, MA 02568
She requested you send a self-addressed, stamped envelope.
Ed
>Cheryl,
> I don't recall the exact town. Maybe someone who has the copy of
>Growing Edge mentioned previously can let you know.
> Gordon
>
>Whichwind wrote:
>>
>> In a message dated 98-03-15 14:18:14 EST, you write:
>>
>> << It's been several years since I participated in a workshop with Ms
Edey,
>> but I assume her greenhouse is still operating. >>
>>
>> Gordon,
>> Could you tell me what town on the Vineyard she is located? I live south
of
>> Boston, and could easily hop over to the island and visit.
>> Thanks.
>> Cheryl
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Subject: Introduction & tomato splitting comment
From: J. Hank Morton
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 14:06:15 -0800
Dear aquaponics folks,
Here comes forth another "lurker" from the depths of the list...
I have been reading these threads for the last couple of months and until
now have been content with just being an intermittent "listener"- I found
out about aquaponics-l from the trickle-l list. My industry is agriculture. I
work for a company in San Diego, Eco Soil Systems, that manufactures
fermentation devices for biopesticides- good bugs- that get injected into
irrigation systems (mainly drip, hence the interest in all things "trickle").
Anyways, having candid interest in both agriculture and aquaculture,
your list has been a neat addition to the many pieces of e-mail streaming
into my computer...
Now that I have the podium I have a couple of comments/questions to
pose to the group:
First- specifically regarding the tomato splitting question- Gordon, et. al...
I have seen this problem occur in conventional agriculture tomatoes here
in California and in Mexico. It is more or less undertood that nitrogen
plays a key role in this, and that splitting fruit is often a sign of over
fertilizing with nitrogen. It could be that in an aquaponics setup there is
too much nitrogenous waste coming to the plant, or ratios of nitrogen to
other nutrients are too high. The use of the kelp spray is interesting-
maybe this is balancing out the nitrogen with high amounts of micros...
Second- and much more general- I think aquaculture and integrated
systems like aquaponics are becoming more and more critical as ways
of feeding an exponentially growing world population- just the protein
production per area of these efficient technologies make the waste in
land required for cattle grazing look about as grandiose as McDonald's
yearly profits (I am not saying to give up hamburgers, I love them, but I'm
just illustrating the point). Having done a very small amount of work in the
aquaculture arena, I'm partially familiar with some of the problems and
factors limiting this technology- the high energy demands associated
with oxygenation and circulation, problems with food sources, diseases,
high capital costs in building production sites...
I'd be really interested in finding out more about the economics of
aquaponics and aquaculture... As someone with really no experience in
farming fish and/or hydroponics this is all, for right now, just food for
thought... How would the economics of aquaponics make it an
economically viable food source for developed/developing countries- I'd
love to hear about any research done on this and any comments from
the list
Hank Morton
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Subject: Re: Solviva Greenhouse
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 20:44:02 -0600
At 12:49 PM 3/15/98 -0000, you wrote:
>There is an excellent article by Anna Edey on her Greenhouse in the spring
>1994 (Volume 5 Number 3) issue of The Growing Edge, if you can find or
>order one.
Amy - are these back copies still available? If so, please post an address
for folks to inquire. Our Growing Edge editor "in-house" can probably refer
us to the proper source. I would guess, though, that a check of their home
page at
http://www.growingedge.com would lead you to the details on ordering back
issues.
>In the article she states that at 4 a.m. one night in 1994, during a
>blizzard with below zero temps she got up to check on her greenhouse and
>after shoveling away the 5-foot snowdrift blocking the entrance she found
>the greenhouse temp at a balmy 55 degrees and the animal side was 70! She
>uses 4 layers of a special film.
In that article, what specifically does it say about that film. I've lost
track of my copy (along with my mind it feels like sometimes). Seems like
she had some help from the manufacturer as a trial to prove it's
functionality/durability/whatever. Anyone have any follow-up information?
Paula
S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO 65775 417-256-5124
Web page http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
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Subject: Seaweed Extract addition for aquaponics systems
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 20:50:05 -0600
At 09:49 AM 3/17/98 -0600, you wrote:
>Thanks for the tip, Emmett. What seaweed product do you use and at what
>rate? I used maxicrop as a foliar spray until fruit began to set then
>discontinued its use due concern with flavoring the fruit (sashimi
>tomatoes?). I considered adding it directly to the water and in fact did
>a test with a goldfish in an aquarium, and you're right, the fish seemed
>to like it. After 2 weeks the fish was larger and more intensely colored
>than it's untreated siblings. I've been reluctant to use it in my
>aquaponic system though, due to the heavy tinting of the water which
>makes it nearly impossible to see the fish. It would be difficult to
>observe for disease problems, morts, not to mention harvesting. I find
>that the behavior of the fish is the best indicator of system health so
>I'm reluctant to compromise observability.
Gordon - we use Maxicrop also, usually only once or twice a year (about this
time when it's been a very long time since we've had much sun. It's added
directly into the return water bucket. Yes, it does discolor the water, but
only for a short period of time. If your water doesn't return to its norm
within 3-4 hours, I'd be surprised.
Paula
S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO 65775 417-256-5124
Web page http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
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Subject: Re: Introduction & tomato splitting comment
From: "H.Doelle"
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 13:00:42 +1000
Dear Hank,
I strongly recommend to you the internet conference about to start in a
couple of weeks on biointegrated systems, where you hopefully get a number
of your questions answered. Simply come into;
http://home2.swipnet.se/~w-25860/icibs/prog.htm
If you have problems, please let me know. The conference is free. All you
have to do is, select the topics you like to discuss and register as
outlined in the program.
Good Luck
Horst Doelle
At 02:06 PM 17/03/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Dear aquaponics folks,
>
>Here comes forth another "lurker" from the depths of the list...
>I have been reading these threads for the last couple of months and until
>now have been content with just being an intermittent "listener"- I found
>out about aquaponics-l from the trickle-l list. My industry is
agriculture. I
>work for a company in San Diego, Eco Soil Systems, that manufactures
>fermentation devices for biopesticides- good bugs- that get injected into
>irrigation systems (mainly drip, hence the interest in all things "trickle").
>Anyways, having candid interest in both agriculture and aquaculture,
>your list has been a neat addition to the many pieces of e-mail streaming
>into my computer...
>
>Now that I have the podium I have a couple of comments/questions to
>pose to the group:
>
>First- specifically regarding the tomato splitting question- Gordon, et.
al...
>I have seen this problem occur in conventional agriculture tomatoes here
>in California and in Mexico. It is more or less undertood that nitrogen
>plays a key role in this, and that splitting fruit is often a sign of over
>fertilizing with nitrogen. It could be that in an aquaponics setup there is
>too much nitrogenous waste coming to the plant, or ratios of nitrogen to
>other nutrients are too high. The use of the kelp spray is interesting-
>maybe this is balancing out the nitrogen with high amounts of micros...
>
>Second- and much more general- I think aquaculture and integrated
>systems like aquaponics are becoming more and more critical as ways
>of feeding an exponentially growing world population- just the protein
>production per area of these efficient technologies make the waste in
>land required for cattle grazing look about as grandiose as McDonald's
>yearly profits (I am not saying to give up hamburgers, I love them, but I'm
>just illustrating the point). Having done a very small amount of work in the
>aquaculture arena, I'm partially familiar with some of the problems and
>factors limiting this technology- the high energy demands associated
>with oxygenation and circulation, problems with food sources, diseases,
>high capital costs in building production sites...
>
>I'd be really interested in finding out more about the economics of
>aquaponics and aquaculture... As someone with really no experience in
>farming fish and/or hydroponics this is all, for right now, just food for
>thought... How would the economics of aquaponics make it an
>economically viable food source for developed/developing countries- I'd
>love to hear about any research done on this and any comments from
>the list
>
>Hank Morton
>
>
>
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Subject: Tilapia Harvests
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 21:43:46 -0600
At 02:33 PM 3/12/98 -0500, Jim wrote:
>I have being watching this list for about three months now. With the
exception of crystal I have found it an interesting diversion.
>
>About my self I'm a cabinet maker by trade who has experimented with
hydroponics. About 4 years ago I read an article in the growing edge about
S&S s operation and became very interested. precomputer days I could not
find much info on the subject but a lot that I visualized may well work.
>
>I have several questions
>1- Once a system is up and running can you have various sized tilapia in
the same tank so that as you harvest the mature fish you have a balance in
the manure levels.
Jim - since I'm just catching up, I'll comment on this. There are several
opinions on this subject, but my personal feeling is that it depends on your
individual needs.
On a commercial level, the studies show that clearing the tank of all fish
at one time is most efficient. Dr. Rakocy's system documents this. Some
fish just will not grow to full size, and for financial considerations must
be stripped with the harvest size fish at the necessary time. This is a bit
like harvesting our basil was for us. When harvest time came, the bed was
stripped - slow growing plants were used (if large enough), else they went
with the roots of the larger ones into the compost. This allowed us to
clean and replant on a routine basis.
For our demonstration greenhouse, we find that harvesting the larger fish at
market size (3/4# to 1-1/2#) and leaving the remainder to grow once the most
aggressive feeders are gone gives us fairly consistent nutrient flow into
the growing beds. When a tank reaches the point where the fish have stopped
growing, they're either sold (to our local ethnic market that likes the
smaller fish) or put into another tank with larger fish to contribute to the
system.
Hope this helps in your considerations.
Paula
S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO 65775 417-256-5124
Web page http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
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Subject: Lettuce
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 21:48:40 -0600
At 02:33 PM 3/12/98 -0500, Jim wrote:
>2- In my reading tilapia seem to need warm water. Does this high temp not
cause problems with crops like lettuce.
Tilapia do need "warm" water. The required temperature, I believe, will
depend on the variety of tilapia. Some are able to tolerate cooler
temperatures than others.
Also, all lettuces do not necessarily have problems with high root
temperature as much as they "bolt" from other stresses - high air temps, and
specifically dry conditions. With the benefits of aquaponics in providing
nutrients and water on a routine basis, most crops will not experience the
high stress conditions that can occur in outside systems.
Paula
S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO 65775 417-256-5124
Web page http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
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Subject: Heat and CO2
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 22:06:26 -0600
At 07:27 PM 3/15/98 -0500, Sandy Brown wrote:
Several mornings ago, the outside
>air temperature was 0F, the greenhouse air temperature was 12F, and the
>water temperature was 39F; the Swiss chard was a bit startled, lettuce
>reaction was dependent on variety, but the spinach was unfazed. We have
>found that plants tend to grow v-e-r-y slowly at these temperatures. We're
>toying with the idea of running a water coil through a propane demand water
>heater and blowing the heat into the air, heating the air directly in some
>manner, just heating the water in some way....What have other people found
>to be the most efficient method? Or will we be OK if we just get ourselves
>in gear, and insulate before spring arrives? We'd like to stay, as much as
>possible, with propane and something that is or could be made compatible
>with a 24-volt power system, since we want to cut the tie that binds to
>the power company, and use solar and/or wind for all of our power
>requirements.
Sandy - we've found that we can hold the temperatures in the greenhouse at
50F on the very coldest nights by use of:
Double poly layering of the walls
Insulation on the north side
Using black tanks for maximum solar benefits
Tom has devised tank heater using 110V water heater coils, saved heavy-duty
cords, styrofoam sheets and plywood (using a liquid electronic sealer for
the wiring), which we use when it's both cold and cloudy for long periods.
This combination holds the worst cold out, yet lets us maintain the system
without added heaters. The value would depend, of course, on your crops.
Many crops require the higher air temps to grow properly. Many crops will
just "pause" until conditions change. Lots of variables here.
>I'm also wondering about CO2 supplementation. How necessary/helpful is it?
>We didn't use any sort of supplementation in growing pin oaks or tomatoes
>at work, or with the sunflowers I grew hydroponically during my
>undergraduate research days at Tech.
Tom's opinion is that the CO2 necessary to maintain good plant growth in a
tightly closed system (such as during the winter) is provided by the fish.
We've not found it necessary to supplement.
Paula
S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO 65775 417-256-5124
Web page http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
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