Aquaponics Digest - Wed 01/13/99
Message 1: Tilapia source
from "W.Warren"
Message 2: Re: Alfalfa sprouts and salmonella
from "Ted Ground"
Message 3: Re: Alfalfa sprouts and salmonella
from Mike Miller
Message 4: software
from "Ronald W. Brooks"
Message 5: Re: software
from doelle
Message 6: Re: software
from "Jim Sealy Jr."
Message 7: rainwater microbiology
from NCHWANG
Message 8: Re: rainwater microbiology
from "Ted Ground"
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| Message 1 |
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Subject: Tilapia source
From: "W.Warren"
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 05:33:59 -0500
Hi all,
Some time ago one of you gave me the name and email of someone in Florida
who's policy it is to give tilapia fingerlings to educators. I have since
lost it... Could someone email me
this lead or a similar one again?
Much appreciated!
Will
check out the Biobarge:
http://www.shore.net/~wbw
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| Message 2 |
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Subject: Re: Alfalfa sprouts and salmonella
From: "Ted Ground"
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:40:00 -0600
Salmonella typhii and other species of Salmonella, (many serological
strains of Salmonella) are indeed often associated with avian feces, but
not always.
Consider that Salmonella has been detected fairly often in some dried
spices, especially black pepper, because in the countries where they are
produced, they are sun dried in the open air and can be exposed to feces of
wild birds, or the domestic poultry running loose in the village- as you
can imagine.
Given the large volume of black pepper, as well as alfalfa sprouts now,
that are consumed in this country, one can easily see that the incidence or
degree of such contamination is very, very low indeed. Nevertheless, the
FDA has now taken upon itself the task of governmental Savior by exerting a
regulatory effort in the realm of sprout production and packaging for human
consumption. The fault lies in a very few sprout producers that did not
have a clean source of seed, and furthermore, do not exert a reasonable or
sufficient effort in daily rinsing as the sprouts germinate- just like that
one salad farm we discussed in earlier posts. Anyway, the result is
something we desparately need more of - more federal government
micromanagement and involvement in everyday life.
I would not be concerned about feeding the sprouts to the fish.
In my food testing lab, we tested thousands of samples of packaged meats
from many different customers- now, these were cooked to one degree or
another. Nevertheless on occasion we did detect Salmonella, almost always
on a poultry product, rather than beef, sausage, etc., and it occasionally
was confirmed as Salmonella typhii, or one of the serological types of
concern. So, it definitely shows up on poultry meat- especially RAW
poultry meat. I would go so far as to say that the majority of unwashed raw
poultry meat in the grocery store would be found to have detectable levels
of at least some species of Salmonella or Clostridium or some kind of
unwanted critters.
Given all the poultry consumed in the USA, the incidence of food poisoning
due to Salmonella is extremely low. Nevertheless, it is a reasonable
precaution to wash all poultry, or anything for that matter, before you
cook it- certainly before you eat it. Washing it does not sterilize it-
but it can knock down the total number of all kinds of bacteria that may be
found on the surface of the meat. We eat and drink bacterial pathogens
everyday- the important thing to consider is the dose.
More information on the microbiological quality of sprout seed- and the
standard methods used to produce a clean sprout product - can be had by
contacting ISS (International Seed Supply). They are a major supplier of
seeds for sprouting, and they are a very knowledgable and very helpful
group of folks there. They are on the web, by the way. Also, there is a
book out called uh, the sprouting book, I think, by uh, Ann Wiggins?
Wigdon? something like that. Might check into that.
This may be the place to mention rainwater microbiology- for those of you
who are considering rainfall capture systems, either for your aquaponics
systems or for your drinking water supply. Bird poop can carry Salmonella,
so "UP ON THE ROOF" as the song goes, you can sit right down in some
Salmonella. Granted, it would probably take a large deposit of bird guano
to make you sick from roof-captured rainwater, due to the enormous dilution
factor, and due to the fact that the bird droppings would be dessicated and
irradiated by UV from the sun for a while before being washed into the
rainwater tank, but just as a precaution I would put a filter and ozone
unit in - at least for the drinking water supply. Heck, I once found a
dead bat in the roof gutter, so you get the idea. Our (recent) ancestors
would never have given it a second thought. They were just glad to get the
rainwater to take a bath every Saturday night- whether they needed one or
not!
Ted
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Subject: Re: Alfalfa sprouts and salmonella
From: Mike Miller
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:25:36 -0600
Of course the contamination was from organic sources just ask the Wall
Street Journal and Dennsi Avery form the Hudson Institute. Reagan really
started something with his concept of Double Speak. Why am I not surprised
that this came from MSNBC? mike
At 16:47 12-01-99 -0600, you wrote:
>
>Today MSNBC reported a link tracing salmonella food poisoning to
>alfalfa sprouts. The bacteria apparently is dormant in the seed
>and multiplies rapidly in the 3-5 days after germination. Those
>of you who were considering using sprouts for feed should check
>this out on the MSNBC web site. I wonder if this might be a
>problem with other sprouts. The article speculated that the
>original contamination of the seeds occurred in the field from
>organic sources.
>
>Adriana
>
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| Message 4 |
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Subject: software
From: "Ronald W. Brooks"
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:19:38 -0500
Do any of you out there use any type of software to help with day to day
tracking of your aquaponics system ?
can you share the name and how well it works for you
Thanks
Ron
The One Who Walks Two Paths
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Subject: Re: software
From: doelle
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 09:02:44 +1100
Dear Ron,
I am using Eudora Pro very happily for my discussions with everybody
including aquaponics.
Horst Doelle
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Subject: Re: software
From: "Jim Sealy Jr."
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 16:12:05 -0600
I use quick books for all my bookkeeping and and MS Works database for
stock records.
Jim
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| Message 7 |
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Subject: rainwater microbiology
From: NCHWANG
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:15:48 EST
Interesting to read the write up on " rainwater microbiology " and " rainfall
capture systems" by Ted. I live in Thailand, and that is still the daily life
of the peoples in the village. They have big clay or cement pots and saved up
water for domestic use. Matter of fact, most would only drink the rain water
came from the roof. They usually just use a simple cloth bag filter to filter
out the debrits. Also, they frequently would only use the rain water when
making the offer to the God. Anyway, I would think twice now about the bat
when I drink the water next time.
Regards from Thailand,
Norman Chwang
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| Message 8 |
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Subject: Re: rainwater microbiology
From: "Ted Ground"
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:21:24 -0600
Norman,
Faced with the choice of drinking highly contaminated surface water (ie.,
river or stream water) or groundwater for people in the villages in
Thailand that you referred to, it is easy to understand the relative safety
and high quality of rainwater. I would not hesitate to drink even
unfiltered rainwater if that were my choice over grossly contaminated
surface or ground water. Well, maybe I would hesitate. But a simple sand,
cloth fiber, or diatomaceous earth filter etc. could be used to knock out a
lot of the debris that much of the bacterial biomass would be attached to.
Consider also the human immune system that is accustomed to the results of
drinking only slightly contaminated rainwater- acclimated and made
resilient over decades and centuries to certain biological agents in the
environment. It's all risky business, no matter which way you go. By the
way, NASA Tech Briefs- (their technology transfer magazine)- describes some
very remarkable iodine-based water treatment units- very simple, very
effective, low energy, etc...I think they use them in villages in Mexico
with great success- another great spin off from the US space program.
Best Regards,
Ted.
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