Aquaponics Digest - Thu 01/14/99
Message 1:
from "Palchik"
Message 2: Re: rainwater microbiology
from doelle
Message 3: worms
from William Evans
Message 4: Re: rainwater microbiology
from NCHWANG
Message 5: Re: rainwater microbiology
from "Jorg D. Ostrowski"
Message 6: Re: worms
from "Palchik"
Message 7: Re: worms
from Michael Strates
Message 8: Re: worms
from "Ted Ground"
Message 9: Re: worms
from "Robin Jenkins"
Message 10: Re: worms
from Michael Strates
Message 11: Re: worms
from Michael Strates
Message 12: H2S loving plants?
from "Jorg D. Ostrowski"
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Subject:
From: "Palchik"
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 11:26:04 +0200
who has experience on the ensamble:
"peces-hydroponics-worms(red california)
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Subject: Re: rainwater microbiology
From: doelle
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 21:49:10 +1100
Ted and Norman,
I think we have to be a bit careful and not go overboard with sterile
requirements. As you said, Ted, we all have an immune system which is
capable of fighting off a certain amount of invasion into our bodies. In
order to foster that immune system we also have to get occasionally sick, so
we can develop our antibodies.
Although I am warning about recycling pathogens, I warn because they
multiply and if we get them into our system in large numbers, we are in trouble.
I drank plenty of times rainwater here and in Thailand. It certainly is
better than tap water, at least in taste. As you say, Ted, the occasional
'blip' from birds has not harmed our ancestors, but I agree a filter to get
the debris out is advisable.
Even a few salmonellas may not get astray in our guts, but the numbers are
the problems !
I still do not like the taste of ultrasterile milk.
I think if we want to keep the balance, we have to walk the middle route or
slightly below.
What do you think ?
Best regards
Horst
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Subject: worms
From: William Evans
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 05:26:20 -0800
Are you looking for manure (feces) worms(red wigglers)?or info on
using worms in a hydroponic system as a food source?
> Palchik wrote:
>
> who has experience on the ensamble:
> "peces-hydroponics-worms(red california)
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Subject: Re: rainwater microbiology
From: NCHWANG
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 09:56:16 EST
Thanks for Mr. Horst's comment. I never thought about been sterile, as I have
been living in rural Mexico, China, Thailand for the past 20 years, and it is
very normal to drink rain water directly. You really don't have much choice
in rural area any way. Just keep those Bactrium ready in case you may need
it. It was just interesting to see people in America are starting to taking
the interest and going back to the natural way.
Best regards,
Norman
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Subject: Re: rainwater microbiology
From: "Jorg D. Ostrowski"
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 08:33:37 -0700 (MST)
You said:"NASA Tech Briefs- (their technology transfer magazine)-
describes some
very remarkable iodine-based water treatment units- very simple, very
effective, low energy, etc...I think they use them in villages in Mexico
with great success- another great spin off from the US space program."
________________________________________________________________________
Ted: Where can we find more info on the above? In our home/office we use a
slow sand filter developed by Dr. David Manz to filter our rainwater off
our roof. Our greywater is recycled in one of 3 separate systems
(including a hydroponic/aquatic system) which also helps to grow food.
In this way we do not need city water or sewer services. Jorg ostrowski
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Subject: Re: worms
From: "Palchik"
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 18:36:54 +0200
I am looking on using as solution of the waste
(fish food remanin,feces,etc.)
sory "peces"fish
-----Original Message-----
From: William Evans
To: aquaponics@townsqr.com
Date: יום חמישי 14 ינואר 1999 16:23
Subject: worms
>Are you looking for manure (feces) worms(red wigglers)?or info on
>using worms in a hydroponic system as a food source?
>
>> Palchik wrote:
>>
>> who has experience on the ensamble:
>> "peces-hydroponics-worms(red california)
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Subject: Re: worms
From: Michael Strates
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 18:31:23 +1100 (EST)
On Thu, 14 Jan 1999, Palchik wrote:
P> I am looking on using as solution of the waste (fish food
P> remanin,feces,etc.) sory "peces"fish
Then you'll want red wrigglers (manure worms). I have them in my nutrient
beds, and they've already infested my lettuce crop's beds, which is quite
good.. I use palm peat as a medium so the worms can eat it as well, and
give them handfuls of grassclippings to eat as well as the bacteria.
Or, you can keep them in a seperate box and feed them bits of fish, food
scraps, etc.. Which one of these are you after
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Subject: Re: worms
From: "Ted Ground"
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 16:22:15 -0600
Michael,
I want to say I always appreciate your contributions, especially about
worms. I have not begun to explore these wonderful critters, but I sure
have a lot of them in my gravel beds- I think they are great! (I am
fascinated by the spud hydroponics that you mentioned earlier, as well and
I am thinking seriously about sweet potatoes, the perfect vegetable, but, I
will hold off on that right now..).
Gotta question or two for you. I have a source of plain corrugated
cardboard scrap material- no ink or adhesives that I know of. Now my
question is, the worms will obviously eat this fiberous carbon source just
like newspaper, right?, But what about the nitrogen? What ratio of carbon
to nitrogen do I need to feed them? Do you have any solid numbers on C/N
ratios or just some rules of thumb, feed recipes, etc?
So many pounds of cardboard to so many pounds of....what? I am also
interested in any information that anyone out there may have on HUFAs,
PUFAs, and EFAs (info about various classes of fatty acids) that earthworm
biomass offers as a fish feed source....
I know that the worm carcass is high in protein, so they must eat a lot of
nitrogen to make that- but I am off in unknown territory here....
Thanks
Ted.
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Subject: Re: worms
From: "Robin Jenkins"
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 19:06:14 -0600
Ted,
I keep worms known as red wigglers (Eisenia foetida) in square,
stackable trays with wire mesh bottoms. I feed the worms lettuce and
potatoes I get occasionaly from a friend in the restaurant business. I also
feed them rabbit manure. Rabbits and worms were made for each other. It is
my understanding that the worms don't eat the stuff you feed them, they eat
bacteria that break down the foods you give them, however they do eat fiber
and grit, I use dryer lint and sand. Worms grown in rabbit manure will
double every ninety days in number.
I'm very interested in ways to incorporate worms into the greenhouse.
I'm setting up a small aquaponics system and want to explore ways I can to
make it a sustainable venture. The small stackable trays have vents in the
sides and release carbon dioxide. I think the plants would appreciate this.
Are the worms you mention in your gravel beds in your aquaponic growing
beds? A good web site and supplier for real Eisenia foetida worms can be
found at http://www.happydranch.com. Others on this list have talked about
worms and specificly the can-o-worms which my trays are modeled after.
Good luck.
Robin Jenkins
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Subject: Re: worms
From: Michael Strates
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 23:16:40 +1100 (EST)
On Thu, 14 Jan 1999, Ted Ground wrote:
TG> I want to say I always appreciate your contributions, especially about
TG> worms. I have not begun to explore these wonderful critters, but I sure
Thanks.. Glad to see that at least someone reads my postings :-) To have
red wrigglers in your gravel beds means that they are feeding on the
bacteria and nothing else. I guess you can call it `population control'
for your bacterial colony. The worms will turn the excess bacteria into
nutrients as well. Remember that your worms can survive in oxygenated
water if you want them to, and its a common myth that "worms drown".. Fish
will also drown if the O2 content of the water isn't high enough.
TG> Gotta question or two for you. I have a source of plain corrugated
TG> cardboard scrap material- no ink or adhesives that I know of. Now my
TG> question is, the worms will obviously eat this fiberous carbon source just
TG> like newspaper, right?, But what about the nitrogen? What ratio of carbon
TG> to nitrogen do I need to feed them? Do you have any solid numbers on C/N
TG> ratios or just some rules of thumb, feed recipes, etc?
C/N doesn't matter that much with vermiculture, which is a plus compared
with normal composting. The cardboard sounds fine. I feed my worms
cardboard, and then sift the plastic out after they've fed.
TG> So many pounds of cardboard to so many pounds of....what? I am also
TG> interested in any information that anyone out there may have on HUFAs,
TG> PUFAs, and EFAs (info about various classes of fatty acids) that earthworm
TG> biomass offers as a fish feed source....
Wheat is a great thing to use if you want to fatten the worms. I beleive
that quite a few worm people (http://www.earthworm.net/ is a good starting
point) have specific fattening recipies.
TG> I know that the worm carcass is high in protein, so they must eat a lot of
TG> nitrogen to make that- but I am off in unknown territory here....
Like I said, I know people who /just/ feed the worms newspaper. Just
newspaper! That's a whole lot of carbon, and little nitrogen. Diversity is
the key, but the critters don't mind it at all.
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Subject: Re: worms
From: Michael Strates
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 23:21:33 +1100 (EST)
On Thu, 14 Jan 1999, Robin Jenkins wrote:
RJ> my understanding that the worms don't eat the stuff you feed them, they eat
RJ> bacteria that break down the foods you give them, however they do eat fiber
RJ> and grit, I use dryer lint and sand. Worms grown in rabbit manure will
RJ> double every ninety days in number.
Worms can and do eat small scraps of food. They also eat the bacteria on
the food, but they can and do ingest small bits of food. Fresh mashed
potato is an example. Because it is so fluffy, the worms can digest it
without it being pre-digested by bacteria. The worm itself has lots of
bacteria in its gut which deal with the food, and convert it into that
brilliant black excreta (castings). Its therefore important that you
include about a tablespoon of sand every month or so, so that the worms
can use the grit. The worm "eats" food by putting a piece of grit in its
"mouth" and banging the food against it.
RJ> make it a sustainable venture. The small stackable trays have vents in the
RJ> sides and release carbon dioxide. I think the plants would appreciate this.
RJ> Are the worms you mention in your gravel beds in your aquaponic growing
Contrary to popular beleif, a worm can tolerate elevated CO2 levels by
excreting the CO2 as calcium carbonate (a chalk) from its skin. To do that
it uses calcium (duh!), and hence healthy worms have calcium. You can add
this by adding crushed bones to the worm farm if you want to, or even
small amounts of powdered milk.
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Subject: H2S loving plants?
From: "Jorg D. Ostrowski"
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 19:49:31 -0700 (MST)
Does anyone know of any plants that don't mind absorbing hydrogen sulfide?
Jorg Ostrowski
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