Aquaponics Digest - Mon 02/15/99
Message 1: Re: Urine for plant culture
from Michael Strates
Message 2: Re: Ugly e-mail
from doelle
Message 3: Re: Genetical engineered food
from doelle
Message 4: compost tea for hydroponics
from "Jorg D. Ostrowski"
Message 5: Re: purpose of earthworms in gravel
from Gordon Watkins
Message 6: Monthly Advertising Day - Reminder
from S & S Aqua Farm
Message 7: Australian Aquaculture
from S & S Aqua Farm
Message 8: ad
from khale@ballistic.com
Message 9: Internet Message
from PHRL33A@prodigy.com (MS JEAN R SHAFFER)
Message 10: Re: Monthly Advertising Day - Reminder
from Tom Alexander
Message 11: Re: Solar Cells in production
from PHRL33A@prodigy.com (MS JEAN R SHAFFER)
Message 12: AD
from Rebecca Nelson
Message 13: frogs
from james.rakocy@uvi.edu (James Rakocy, Ph.D.)
Message 14: Re: Solar Cells in production
from William Evans
Message 15: RE: Tilapia Tank Culture (James Rakocy)
from Alejandro Gallardo Valencia
Message 16: Re: Solar Cells in production
from MUDDTOO
Message 17: AD
from Hydro/Aquatic Tech
Message 18: Hydroponic list, was Re: Internet Message
from S & S Aqua Farm
Message 19: Feasability
from Wayne Straughan
Message 20: Re: Internet Message
from Michael Strates
Message 21: Billy and worms
from Jose Pelleya
Message 22: Re: Feasability
from JobieEagan@webtv.net
Message 23: Re: Compressed Air (was Solar Cells in production)
from "Dale Robinson"
Message 24: Pearlite as Hydroponics Medium
from Glen Seibert
Message 25: RE: Tilapia Tank Culture (James Rakocy)
from james.rakocy@uvi.edu (James Rakocy, Ph.D.)
Message 26: Re: Compressed Air (was Solar Cells in production)
from KLOTTTRUE
Message 27: Tapes
from sbonney@iquest.net
Message 28: Re: Feasability
from "Robin Jenkins"
Message 29: Re: Feasability
from "Mel Riser"
Message 30: Re: Pool turning into Reality
from "Marc S. Nameth"
Message 31: RE: Pearlite as Hydroponics Medium
from Alan Lloyd
Message 32: Re: Pool turning into Reality
from David Beckham
Message 33: Re: Pool turning into Reality
from mlorenzo@webtv.net (m lorenzo)
Message 34: Re: Ugly e-mail
from "Dale Robinson"
Message 35: Re: Compressed Air (was Solar Cells in production)
from "Marc S. Nameth"
Message 36: Re: Urine for plant culture
from jilli and lars
Message 37: Re: A thought about Urine
from jilli and lars
Message 38: Re: compost tea for hydroponics
from jilli and lars
Message 39: request for nutrient supplier
from jilli and lars
Message 40: Re: A thought about Urine
from William Evans
Message 41: Re: Urine for plant culture
from William Evans
Message 42: RE: Tilapia Tank Culture (James Rakocy)
from Jose Pelleya
Message 43: Re: A thought about Urine
from jilli and lars
Message 44: Re: Heat Pumps
from Dave Miller
Message 45: Re: A thought about Urine
from "Marc S. Nameth"
Message 46: Re: request for nutrient supplier
from Michael Strates
Message 47: Re: Feasability
from Michael Strates
Message 48: Re: Feasability
from "Mel Riser"
Message 49: Re: Feasability
from KLOTTTRUE
Message 50: Re: Compressed Air (was Solar Cells in production)
from Michael Strates
Message 51: Re: Feasability
from KLOTTTRUE
Message 52: Re: Feasability
from Michael Strates
Message 53: Apple Snails
from Michael Strates
Message 54: Re: frogs
from Gordon Watkins
Message 55: Re: Compressed Air (was Solar Cells in production)
from "Dale Robinson"
Message 56: Re: Feasability
from "Dale Robinson"
Message 57: Re: List Netiquette
from Dave Miller
Message 58: Re: Feasability
from Michael Strates
Message 59: Re: Feasability
from KLOTTTRUE
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| Message 1 |
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Subject: Re: Urine for plant culture
From: Michael Strates
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 04:08:31 +1100 (EST)
On Sun, 14 Feb 1999, Frank Adams wrote:
FA> I think you'll find that the Sodium concentration in Urine is too high for
FA> hydroponic/Aquaponic systems. I found what I think to be the concentration
FA> of Sodium in Urine and it's 2.5/mEq/kg/24h mEq is the same as mMoles in
Does anybody know if there is an easier way to remove Na chloride than
using several different sized RO membranes? Remember, we want the nitrate
to stay.
--
e-mail: mstrates@croftj.net www: http://www.croftj.net/~mstrates
See keyservers for PGP info. Linux! The OS of my Choice!
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned
skyward, for there you have been, and there you long to return."
- Leonardo da Vinci, and below an extract from John Fogerty's song:
Hey, Tonight - Gonna be tonight- Don't you know I'm flyin'- Tonight
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| Message 2 |
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Subject: Re: Ugly e-mail
From: doelle
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 22:26:10 +1100
Ron and all,
You have my support. I went through the same when I questioned genetic
engineering of plants, animals and food.
I enjoy this particular discussion group because of its open discussion and
general tolerance towards different opinions, although I have not as yet
found the time to start aquaculture system.
Lets not be disturbed by those crackpots sending defamating and/or ugly email.
Best wishes and hoping for a continuation of good discussions,
Horst
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| Message 3 |
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Subject: Re: Genetical engineered food
From: doelle
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 22:31:09 +1100
Thanks lars. I appreciate your comments.
Horst
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| Message 4 |
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Subject: compost tea for hydroponics
From: "Jorg D. Ostrowski"
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 07:37:59 -0700 (MST)
Relevant to this thread on urine for hydroponics, we have a waterless
toilet and collect some of the compost tea that can collect at the bottom
after passing through the mass (humanure, kitchen scraps, sawdust, wood
shavings, etc.). We usually collect this in reused 4 L clear glass jars
and put them in our wide south window sill as excellent passive solar heat
collectors and to pasteurize any pathogens. On a sunny day these jars get
quite warm. I then add 10% to my greywater for watering my plants. Can I
introduce this compost tea into my hydroponics (which goes into my marshes
and fish tanks)? This greywater treatment system also contains snails,
crayfish, edible vegetables,etc. Thanks for any practical thoughts. Jorg
Ostrowski
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| Message 5 |
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Subject: Re: purpose of earthworms in gravel
From: Gordon Watkins
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 08:53:57 -0600
So far I've released a few red-bellied toads and native toads. As soon as
they appear I
plan to add a few of our native green tree frogs. I've hesitated to
introduce Whites due
to their large size (and large price). I've considered adding some
Dendrobates (poison
dart frogs) but I haven't yet assessed the risk and they're so small I'm
concerned that
they might escape. I also have one Argentinian Ornate Horned Toad but he's
too lethargic
to help much with pest control, although I do feed him runt tilapia fingerlings.
Gordon
jilli and lars wrote:
> Gordon Watkins wrote:
>
> > About a year and a half ago, I released a few worms in my gravel beds,
both red
> >
> > small frogs I've released to help with pest control. There are many
benefits to
> > worms in aquaponic systems but I have yet to identify a detriment. Above
all, they
> > add one more strand in the web of life and help create a more diverse
and stable
> > mesocosm.
>
> thanks for that info, Gordon.
>
> What kind of frogs did you release? Tree frogs? One of the top
predators in my
> system-in-progress is going to be White's tree frogs, a large and hardy
australian
> species with apparently huge appetites. However, because of their size,
they can be
> quite destructive to non-sturdy plants. I've also heard that certain frogs
eat slugs
> besides many flying insects.
>
> lars
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| Message 6 |
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Subject: Monthly Advertising Day - Reminder
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 09:22:36 -0600
Just a reminder to our commercial members (and others) that this is the day
of the month when ads are acceptable. Might be a good time to post and let
our newer members know that you're here and what you have to offer to our
cyber-community friends (membership now stands at 314).
A reprint of the policy follows.
Paula
-----------------------------------------------------------
Advertising on this list, and most others, is seriously discouraged.
However, we have several members whose products or publications are of
probable interest to a large number of our subscribers. In order to enable
the group to become aware of and evaluate these items, we are initiating the
following policy:
Monthly Member "Ad" Day will be the 15th of each month. Please observe the
following guidelines for courtesy.
1. Preface your subject line with the word "AD".
2. Please keep posts to minimum size to convey your message.
3. Ads need not necessarily pertain to aquaponics; related
topics/referrals are accepted.
4. Do not post graphics.
5. Do not include attachments.
6. Please, use good judgement on content for our international community
of members.
We hope this will allow some leeway for our members with commercial
interests in aquaponics, those wishing to report on items of general
interest to address the group, and be of benefit to all subscribers.
----------------------------------------------------
S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO 65775 417-256-5124
Web page http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
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| Message 7 |
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Subject: Australian Aquaculture
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 10:38:39 -0600
We've had several conversations lately on species raised in Australia. In
case any of you missed the message posted to the group a few days ago, the
following URL has quite a bit of good information about the various species.
I especially enjoyed the Aquazine and even the short references in the
tutorial. Worth the time if you're interested in redclaw, some seahorse
articles, yellow perch, etc. Also links to Australian suppliers.
Paula
S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO 65775 417-256-5124
Web page http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
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| Message 8 |
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Subject: ad
From: khale@ballistic.com
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 10:37:29 -0600
BOATCYCLE,INC.-Texas Largest Aquaculture Supply House and one of the
largest if not the oldest in the USA. 800/333-9154 or 903/657-3791.
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| Message 9 |
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Subject: Internet Message
From: PHRL33A@prodigy.com (MS JEAN R SHAFFER)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 11:54:48, -0500
Dear Michael
I'm going crazy trying to find a supplier of hydroponic nutrients.
All my inquiries have been returned with no forwarding address. You
have one I can email of phone for a supply?
Thanks in advance
Jean
Olympia Washington USA
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| Message 10 |
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Subject: Re: Monthly Advertising Day - Reminder
From: Tom Alexander
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 09:01:42 -0800 (PST)
Since this is advertising day, I will plug Growing Edge. Since 1989, we
have been reporting on hydroponics, aquaponics, greenhouse and controlled
environment agriculture, artificial lighting, biodiversity, new crop
varieties, water management and conservation and much more! A sample copy
is FREE (BUT PLEASE SEND $2.00 FOR US POSTAGE AND $6.00 FOR FOREIGN
POSTAGE). We are also looking and paying for aquaponic articles and
photos. Ask for our writers guidelines. Or if you want us to write the
article from an interview with you, let me know that also. Growing Edge
stays right on the cutting edge of horticulture and agriculture without
going over it! We report on the new and innovative!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom Alexander, Publisher PO Box 1027
Growing EDGE magazine Corvallis, OR 97339
talexan@peak.org 541.757.8477
================= http://www.growingedge.com =================
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| Message 11 |
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Subject: Re: Solar Cells in production
From: PHRL33A@prodigy.com (MS JEAN R SHAFFER)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 12:00:20, -0500
Also, anyone out there, I am all set up to start a hydroponics system
(I will attempt fish or greyfish at a later time) but I have bought
perlite as my medium instead of gravel. That's for it's lightness
since this is on a second floor. Do the plants anchor well in it?
Does it float up when the solution comes in? (I have the type where a
5 gallon bucket is raised above the bed to fill it and then set down
below the bed to drain it, via a hose) If perlite floats up should I
hold it down with a cover of net?
Last can dwarf indoor citrus trees be grown in a perlite hydroponic
system?
Thanks a million
Jean
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| Message 12 |
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Subject: AD
From: Rebecca Nelson
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 09:17:00 -0800
Hello all,
The Aquaponics Journal is a bimonthly, color, printed publication
covering aquaponics, hydroponics and aquaculture. Our features topics
include commercial growing, hobby systems, how-to, research and
education. The February March issue, mailing this week, has an
extensive article on the University of the Virgin Islands Agricultural
Experiment Station - Aquaponic and Aquaculture Research, an Interview
with Dr. Jim Rakocy, an article on the fantastic Biotechnology Program
at Canby High School in Canby Oregon and a how-to on back up power
systems.
Our regular departments include the Editor's Note, Industry News, Q and
A, Happenings, New Products, Resurce List and Species Profile.
You can learn more about the Aquaponics Journal and our other products
at http://www.aquaponics.com or call us at 209-742-686
Sincerely,
Rebecca Nelson
Nelson/Pade Multimedia - Aquaponics Journal - Aquaponics Technology
Center
the source for information on aquaponics, hydroponics and aquaculture
http://www.aquaponics.com phone (209)742-6869 fax (209)742-4402
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| Message 13 |
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Subject: frogs
From: james.rakocy@uvi.edu (James Rakocy, Ph.D.)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 13:16:21 -0400 (AST)
I once cautioned the group about the use of frogs. They can get into produce
such as lettuce and make it unmarketable, especially the small
newly-metamorphosed frogs. Jim R.
>
>Gordon Watkins wrote:
>
>> About a year and a half ago, I released a few worms in my gravel beds,
both red
>>
>> small frogs I've released to help with pest control. There are many
benefits to
>> worms in aquaponic systems but I have yet to identify a detriment. Above
all, they
>> add one more strand in the web of life and help create a more diverse and
stable
>> mesocosm.
>
>thanks for that info, Gordon.
>
> What kind of frogs did you release? Tree frogs? One of the top
predators in my
>system-in-progress is going to be White's tree frogs, a large and hardy
australian
>species with apparently huge appetites. However, because of their size,
they can be
>quite destructive to non-sturdy plants. I've also heard that certain frogs
eat slugs
>besides many flying insects.
>
>lars
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| Message 14 |
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Subject: Re: Solar Cells in production
From: William Evans
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 09:38:51 -0800
I'd be more worried bout the weight per sq foot of your fridge.
Yes the perlite will float ,yes you should cover it,yes you should
depend on some other support than the perlite......specially if your
growing more than just lettuce.
IMHO
billevans
SHAFFER wrote:
> my medium instead of gravel. That's for it's lightness
> since this is on a second floor. Do the plants anchor well in it?
> Does it float up when the solution comes in? (I have the type where a
> 5 gallon bucket is raised above the bed to fill it and then set down
> below the bed to drain it, via a hose) If perlite floats up should I
> hold it down with a cover of net?
>
> Last can dwarf indoor citrus trees be grown in a perlite hydroponic
> system?
>
> Thanks a million
> Jean
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| Message 15 |
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Subject: RE: Tilapia Tank Culture (James Rakocy)
From: Alejandro Gallardo Valencia
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 12:10:11 -0600
James:
Thanks for the insight. There are several advantages in this proyect, =
regarding costs. First, labor is much less expensive here, specially in =
rural areas, compared to the US (not as much as Taiwan, I imagine, =
though), Veracruz is a very "wet" state, also warm, I guess it =
wouldn=B4t be much of a problem to find a good water source for a flow =
trough system. We're much closer than Asia, and Veracruz has access by =
air and ship to the US. We are still checking the financial analisys, =
but according to US seafood market statistics (several sources) you do =
import tilapia (and as you say, mainly from Asia), so I'm not loosing =
hope. My idea is that probably fillets are the ideal product, =
considering the advantages I mentioned earlier. Smaller fish are then =
better for selling hole gutted? I picture having a couple of by =
products, like smaller fish for direct marketing and the remains of =
filleting for fish meal. We=B4ll see.
As soon as the design is finished, the project goes out to the market =
for investers, so if anyone is interested, I'll keep you posted on the =
progress.
Thanks again James.
Best regards.
Alejandro
P.S. On other matters, I'm having some trouble with Michael Strates' =
mail (it jams my program) so I was wondering if you Michael use any =
special program or something, because I'm sure I'm missing good stuff =
from your postings.
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| Message 16 |
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Subject: Re: Solar Cells in production
From: MUDDTOO
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 13:11:00 EST
In a message dated 99-02-15 12:05:49 EST, you write:
<< Also, anyone out there, I am all set up to start a hydroponics system
(I will attempt fish or greyfish at a later time) but I have bought
perlite as my medium instead of gravel. That's for it's lightness
since this is on a second floor. Do the plants anchor well in it?
Does it float up when the solution comes in? (I have the type where a
5 gallon bucket is raised above the bed to fill it and then set down
below the bed to drain it, via a hose) If perlite floats up should I
hold it down with a cover of net?
Last can dwarf indoor citrus trees be grown in a perlite hydroponic
system?
Thanks a million
Jean >>
Hello Jean,
You may have quite some trouble with your setup.
I use perlite and it works well in a drip system and even in a flood and
drain setup if the containers are small, like a 2-liter bottle. But when the
perlite gets flooded it turns to a quicksand consistency and everything on top
tries to sink. It may work okay if you can keep the top 1 inch of perlite dry
by not over flooding. This will also keep the alage from growing on the
surface too. Good luck,
Joel
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| Message 17 |
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Subject: AD
From: Hydro/Aquatic Tech
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 13:46:51 -0800
If you are considering going into commercial aquaponics, we're here to
help you!
We specialize in commercial aquaponic / hydroponic design and
implementation, and work with you on all steps.
Some of the services that we offer are:
· Initial feasibility studies for YOUR regional market (don't grow it if
you can't sell it, for a profit!)
· Suggestions on the BEST crops for your market (not JUST Tilapia and
Tomatoes)
· Business plan assistance (with data to back it up)
· System and structure design (greenhouse, hard-shell and existing
structure)
· Component and system procurement (we're distributors for AES,
CropKing, and many more)
· System installation assistance (site foreman only)
· Employee training (initial and on-going)
· Trouble shooting (our systems, or systems built by others)
· Continued assistance AFTER the sale (contract or incident specific)
· Complete turn-key systems (we handle it all!)
Email us at aqua@hatech.com , call 410-957-2680, or fax 410-957-2859.
And read our "how-to" series in the world's premiere aquaponic magazine,
the "Aquaponic Journal"
Hydro/Aquatic Technologies
Scott Jones
PO Box 777
Princess Anne MD 21853
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| Message 18 |
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Subject: Hydroponic list, was Re: Internet Message
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 13:11:02 -0600
At 11:54 AM 2/15/99 -0500, Jean wrote:
>Dear Michael
>
>I'm going crazy trying to find a supplier of hydroponic nutrients.
>All my inquiries have been returned with no forwarding address. You
>have one I can email of phone for a supply?
Hydroponic suppliers close to you might be more easily found on the
hydroponics mail list, although I'm certain some of our members could help
you.
For anyone who's interested, the subscribe instructions for the hydro list are:
-----------------------------------
All subscription-related requests must be sent to
subscription@hsa.hydroponics.org. Please do not send any
subscription-related requests to the normal address used for posting to
the list.
There are two versions of hydrolist:
1. "hydrolist"--members receive each message individually as it is posted.
2. "hydrolist-digest"--members receive all posts grouped together into
one e-mail message once a day.
Subscription-related requests are handled by an automated system which
recognizes specific commands. Valid commands include:
subscribe hydrolist
subscribe hydrolist-digest
unsubscribe hydrolist
unsubscribe hydrolist-digest
Select the command that is appropriate to your situation and put it in
the BODY of an e-mail message to subscription@hsa.hydroponics.org.
Please remember that the command must be in the body of the message, not
the subject. The subject will be ignored by the subscription-processing
system.
--------------------------------------------
S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO 65775 417-256-5124
Web page http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
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| Message 19 |
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Subject: Feasability
From: Wayne Straughan
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 11:38:49 -0800 (PST)
Hello
I have been on this list for a short time and it has been very
educational.Now I have question,I am wondering what amount of
investment would be required to net $10000/annual income,with a
tilapia aquaponic system.I would likely grow some herbs and whatever
else the market dictates.I live in Ont Canada.
Thanks for any thoughts or info.
==
Bye - have a good day!
To help you improve your tomorrows visit these sites:
http://www.awarecorp.com/ use ID # 8413001
http://www.magiclearning.com/cgi/members/WS20787.html
http://www.theduplicator.com/vip.cgi/lifesopp
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
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| Message 20 |
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Subject: Re: Internet Message
From: Michael Strates
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 18:00:38 +1100 (EST)
On Mon, 15 Feb 1999, MS JEAN R SHAFFER wrote:
MJRS> I'm going crazy trying to find a supplier of hydroponic nutrients.
MJRS> All my inquiries have been returned with no forwarding address. You
MJRS> have one I can email of phone for a supply?
Try Wal-Mart. All hardware stalls should have at least one brand of
hydroponic nute in their gardening section. If you need to order online,
check out http://www.hydroponicsonline.com/ and follow the links off
there, you should find something useful.
If you simply cannot get any nutes, find a "Complete Garden Fertilizer"
which is chemical based, and half all doses of it.
--
e-mail: mstrates@croftj.net www: http://www.croftj.net/~mstrates
See keyservers for PGP info. Linux! The OS of my Choice!
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned
skyward, for there you have been, and there you long to return."
- Leonardo da Vinci, and below an extract from John Fogerty's song:
Hey, Tonight - Gonna be tonight- Don't you know I'm flyin'- Tonight
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| Message 21 |
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Subject: Billy and worms
From: Jose Pelleya
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 09:09:19 -0700
Lars:
I think I read it in one of the vermicomposting sites.
Jose
At 03:25 PM 2/14/99 -0800, you wrote:
>
>
>Jose Pelleya wrote:
>
>> And I was told by someone that it was Billy Carter (remember "Billy Beer")
>> who did a lot of the ground work for the use of the red earthworm (foetida)
>> in vermicomposting.
>
>hey jose-
>
> Wow. I never heard that before. I'd really appreciate if anybody can
verify
>that.
>lars
>
>
>
>
>
Thought for the day:
Tell me what you need and I'll explain how you can get along
without it.
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| Message 22 |
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Subject: Re: Feasability
From: JobieEagan@webtv.net
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 16:54:54 -0500 (EST)
I've just joined the list. First day and I'm intriqued. I'm very much
wanting to get a set up by end of March. I'd like to second the
question about set up costs. I'm in central Florida. Thanks, Trudy
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| Message 23 |
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Subject: Re: Compressed Air (was Solar Cells in production)
From: "Dale Robinson"
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 16:02:50 -0600
Are you suggesting that the heat is lost to the compressed air or to
friction of the cylinder walls? Since this loss is minor, I don't think it
is worth discussion at great length. Another heat loss is from the
condensation of water vapor. The condensed water will take with it a lot
more heat then will be lost through friction.
At any rate, we are talking more about air that is compress only slightly
and used immediately, efficiency is much better and the only heat loss in
the motor since there is no cylinder involved.
If you want to heat water, the best way is with a heat pump. Heat pumps are
more efficient because they use a pure gas and heat is not lost from
compressing water vapor.
If you wish to respond to any of these statements, please give an
explanation as to what makes you think that way. The statement below is not
complete because it does not suggest where the heat might be going to.
Best regards
Dale Robinson
prof-robinson@worldnet.att.net
http//home.att.net/~prof-robinson
-----Original Message-----
From: Marc S. Nameth
To: aquaponics@townsqr.com
Date: Sunday, February 14, 1999 3:45 PM
Subject: Re: Compressed Air (was Solar Cells in production)
>Anytime you use a system to create potential energy
>(compressed air) you must face the fact that the system you
>are using is not 100% efficient. You will have losses
>(heat).
>
>
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| Message 24 |
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Subject: Pearlite as Hydroponics Medium
From: Glen Seibert
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 15:12:23 -0800
MS JEAN R SHAFFER wrote:
>
> Also, anyone out there, I am all set up to start a hydroponics system
> (I will attempt fish or greyfish at a later time) but I have bought
> perlite as my medium instead of gravel. That's for it's lightness
> since this is on a second floor. Do the plants anchor well in it?
> Does it float up when the solution comes in? (I have the type where a
> 5 gallon bucket is raised above the bed to fill it and then set down
> below the bed to drain it, via a hose) If perlite floats up should I
> hold it down with a cover of net?
>
> Last can dwarf indoor citrus trees be grown in a perlite hydroponic
> system?
>
> Thanks a million
> Jean
Hi Jean!
Sure. Pearlite is a great medium for hydroponics. The surface is
riddled with pores, providing an excellent negatively charged space to
hold nutrients, which are for the most part positively charged.
I use it in my "Gobletts" and contain it in paint strainers (see the
images at my web site, linked below).
There are paint strainer "socks" sold for 5 gallon buckets aswell.
Once wet Pearlite tends to settle in and not float too much. Besides, to
keep down fungus and lower the possibility of damping off, don't let the
top of the Pearlite get wet.
As you can see I top my Pearlite off with a layer of GroRocks to keep
things in place and keep down the light, and rinse it off well before
introducing it into the system. It has lots of dust that needs to be
washed away or it will end up in your nutrient tank...
As for the dwarf citrus, its a question of height and canpoy spread. My
"dwarf" citrus are 6 feet tall and 8-10 feet in diameter, but theyre in
the soil outside. I don't think they would be a good candidate for
pearlite.
You could rig some sort of external support attatched to the outside of
the bucket or perhaps secured into a concrete block for stability.
--
Glen Seibert
Fullerton College
Hydroponics
http://www.hydroponicsonline.com/club.htm
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| Message 25 |
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Subject: RE: Tilapia Tank Culture (James Rakocy)
From: james.rakocy@uvi.edu (James Rakocy, Ph.D.)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 19:15:32 -0400 (AST)
Check the American Tilapia Association for import price, form, and source
(http://ag.arizona.edu/azaqua/ata.html). The frozen fish come in different
forms mainly from Asia. Fresh (never frozen) tilapia fillets come from Costa
Rica (one farm, Rain Forest, produces 10 million lbs.(whole fish wt.),
Ecuador (20 million lbs. from about 5 farms), Jamaica (8 million lbs.),
Honduras, when they are back on their feet, and many other South and Central
American countries. Tilapia are raised using intensive pond culture
(aeration and frequent water exchanges), raceway culture, or cage culture.
One farm in Suriname will use 100-ft diameter tanks with frequent water
exchanges. These are your competitors and they all have low labor rates,
good temperatures and abundant water supplies. Good luck. Jim R.
>James:
>
>Thanks for the insight. There are several advantages in this proyect,
regarding costs. First, labor is much less expensive here, specially in
rural areas, compared to the US (not as much as Taiwan, I imagine, though),
Veracruz is a very "wet" state, also warm, I guess it wouldn=B4t be much of=
a
problem to find a good water source for a flow trough system. We're much
closer than Asia, and Veracruz has access by air and ship to the US. We are
still checking the financial analisys, but according to US seafood market
statistics (several sources) you do import tilapia (and as you say, mainly
from Asia), so I'm not loosing hope. My idea is that probably fillets are
the ideal product, considering the advantages I mentioned earlier. Smaller
fish are then better for selling hole gutted? I picture having a couple of
by products, like smaller fish for direct marketing and the remains of
filleting for fish meal. We=B4ll see.
>
>As soon as the design is finished, the project goes out to the market for
investers, so if anyone is interested, I'll keep you posted on the progress.
>
>Thanks again James.
>
>Best regards.
>
>Alejandro
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| Message 26 |
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Subject: Re: Compressed Air (was Solar Cells in production)
From: KLOTTTRUE
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 19:24:52 EST
Dr. Robinson,are you suggesting heat loss through friction? Friction causes
heat,this is why air compressors have cooling fins,if they didn't the
compressors would sieze up. The space shuttle has heat shields,to keep it from
burning up due to the friction it encounters upon reentry into the atmosphere.
Sorry I just couldn't help myself again! and no I'm not smoking anything, I
used to,but I didn't inhale. Kenny Kruger
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| Message 27 |
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Subject: Tapes
From: sbonney@iquest.net
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 20:32:38 -0500
I have had several requests for tapes of sessions at the Midwest Small Farm
Conference held in Dec. 1998. One session was on tilapia production by Jim
Bradley, an Indiana farmer who raises in tanks and sells 100,000 pounds of
tilapia per year from his farm. He is commercializing equipment that he has
developed.
Tapes are available from Resource Express, (800) 535-3830. Tapes are $5.00
plus s & h. The entire set of 17 including Gene Logsdons keynote is $61
including shipping. Sustainable Earth does not receive any of this money.
We just want the information to be available.
Best,
Steve
Steve Bonney, President
Sustainable Earth
a 501(c)3 not-for-profit dedicated to economic development through
sustainable agriculture
100 Georgton Ct., W. Lafayette IN 47906
tel (765)463-9366; fax (765)497-0164; email sbonney@iquest.net
S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO 65775 417-256-5124
Web page http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
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| Message 28 |
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Subject: Re: Feasability
From: "Robin Jenkins"
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 19:14:55 -0600
Hello everyone. I have been lurking on this list for some time now. Thanks
to all who participate for I have learned a ton in just the few months I've
been reading here. I am in the process of setting up my aquaponics system.
Right now its just a hobby system for my own food. A 1000 gal. tank in a
14x20 greenhouse. However, as with all my hobbies I would like to learn
how to make it profitable, or at least pay for itself.
Here's the question:
Other than S&S, is there anybody making ANY money with aquaponics or is it
still mostly a research tool? I don't care about your profit margins,
overhead, the wholesale price of tilapia on the fish market, or how much
competion there is out there producing fish, lettuce, or tomato. Like Mr.
Straughan below, I would like ballpark gross sales numbers related to ft^2
of grow bed, ft^2 of greenhouse, etc. Should I keep it a hobby or can it
pay for itself? or even be profitable? Do I have to produce a million
pounds of meat or vegetable to be feasable?
I cannot find tilapia whole or filleted ANYWHERE in my hometown here in west
Texas, a town of over 300,000 folks. The farmers market here (government
sponsored/WIC) cannot keep enough fresh produce much less fresh fish,
according to the manager.
I don't see a problem marketing fish or produce locally
The fact is I cannot buy tilapia even with a fish rich market and Women
with Infant Children on food stamps cannot buy lettuce at the farm market.
I should be able to sell, just need to know at the going rates if selling
is worth it.
I followed the thread on compressed air a day or so ago. Without stirring
up too much trouble,
I'd like to ask another question regarding such. I run a shop air
compressor all day everyday. The compressor is a piston and ring type(with
oil to lubricate). How can I clean up this air to use in my aquaponics
system? I would assume that the only thing I would need to remove would be
vaporized engine oil. Any ideas, other things with which to be concerned?
There seem to be a lot of people willing to sell information on how to
design aquaponics systems, but I can't find many people other than S&S
actually doing it, for profit.
As always your thoughts will be appreciated.
Robin
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| Message 29 |
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Subject: Re: Feasability
From: "Mel Riser"
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 19:41:36 -0600
I too am just setting up my aquaponic setup as well. If there is a way to
clean up ordinary compressor air I would like to know about it. For SCUBA
air you have to use an oil-less compressor or residue would get in your
lungs.
Does anyone know how to use a regular shop compressor in a hydro/aqua system
safely.
mr
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| Message 30 |
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Subject: Re: Pool turning into Reality
From: "Marc S. Nameth"
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 18:55:40 -0700
My local supply house told me today that the EPDM they sell
me is processed differently than that commonly used on
roofs. He said the roof stuff is processed with substances
that need to be cleaned or purged prior to introducing
aquatic life.
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| Message 31 |
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Subject: RE: Pearlite as Hydroponics Medium
From: Alan Lloyd
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 12:24:28 +1100
Pertile is fine. I use it and will be using it for 'trees'. The main point
is anchorage of the roots. Using one half of a 45 gallon plastic drum is
possily a very good size container for a fruit tree/Paw Paw etc pot.
The only problem I have had with perlite is with the small balls going into
the drainage system. To slve this I covered the return pipe outlet with a
'jey'cloth. Thsi disolved and I now use a piece of plastic gauze.
Good luck
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| Message 32 |
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Subject: Re: Pool turning into Reality
From: David Beckham
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 18:11:59 -0800
There was much "discussion" about that on the pond list. I finally
found a couple of places that sold fish safe EPDM for about 55 cents a
sq. ft. and sometimes there are specials for less. Of course safe FOR
fish doesn't mean safe FROM fish, and if the tilapia have a tendency to
eat through them I may wind up using the ones I have for grow bed liners
:-) Still waiting for a quote on the poly tanks--thanks to those who
have shared info about them and equivalents. I'll post what they tell
me, when they tell me. . . .
David
"Marc S. Nameth" wrote:
> My local supply house told me today that the EPDM they sell
> me is processed differently than that commonly used on
> roofs. He said the roof stuff is processed with substances
> that need to be cleaned or purged prior to introducing
> aquatic life.
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| Message 34 |
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Subject: Re: Ugly e-mail
From: "Dale Robinson"
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 21:06:48 -0600
I'm Sorry if I said something that appeared ugly to you. To me it seemed a
frendly discussion. Is it too much to ask that explanations be given when
making a statement? I made a mistake with my first reply without an
explanation and it just got worse from there. I was also confussed at what
exactly was being talked about. I guess i'm not all the good at type tone.
Again, sorry if I said something that appeared ugly to you.
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| Message 35 |
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Subject: Re: Compressed Air (was Solar Cells in production)
From: "Marc S. Nameth"
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 20:03:47 -0700
I assume you mean through the cylinder walls. No. I am
suggesting that heat is a product of ANY system since NO
system is 100% efficient according to the second law of
thermodynamics.
Depending on compressor type, operating outside center
design operating parameters appreciably could cause thermal
rise to the mass moved but I would expect interesting audio
effects.
I agree that H20 phase changes involve significant energy
exchange. A piston type of compressor has a habit of having
lubricating oil in its discharge air.
There seems to be two objectives here: heat and aeration. If
we can set aside a possible anecdotal situation then is it
possible for an inefficiently operated blower to
simultaneously move air mass and heat that mass
satisfactorily? If the objective is to heat then the heat
is not a "loss" if it is put where it benefits the
objective.
What makes me think this way is the first and second laws of
thermodynamics, Boyles law, Charles law, ideal gas law, etc.
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| Message 36 |
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Subject: Re: Urine for plant culture
From: jilli and lars
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 18:32:40 -0800
Frank Adams wrote:
> I think you'll find that the Sodium concentration in Urine is too high for
> hydroponic/Aquaponic systems. I found what I think to be the concentration
> of Sodium in Urine and it's 2.5/mEq/kg/24h mEq is the same as mMoles in
> this case.
hi frank -
Thanks for that information. I believe you helped diagnose the
'nutrient' toxicity I had observed in my tomato plants.
However, although i did eventually surpass the limits as to how much
sodium is acceptable for tomatoes, I think i also proved (at least to myself)
how extremely high the levels have to get before tomatoes are adversely
affected.
I have read (for example, 'Home Hydroponics' by Lem Jones) that
tomatoes, cucumbers and lettuce are extremely sodium tolerant, especially grown
hydroponically. He states "I have grown good crops of tomatoes using water with
a total DS [dissolved salts] of 4400 ppm, most of which was sodium chloride."
Please remember, this is part of a greywater system. Urine would not be
the only addition. I believe a properly-sized and appropriately-planted
aquaponic system could easily deal with the urine produced by a single adult.
I also believe that the trees in the citrus family do well with urine.
Is this because they are salt tolerant? I couldn't remember where i read that.
Maybe someone can help me out....
> That means a 180 lb. person should excrete 204 mMoles of Sodium per day or
> about 4.5 grams (The equivalent of 11 grams of sodium chloride--table salt).
That means it would take a person with a salty diet roughly one month to
pee the equivalent of one pound of table salt. That doesn't sound like an
*extremely* large amount of sodium. What size system (ie. in gallons) would you
say would be able to 'absorb' that amount of sodium with no ill effects?
Does anybody know which plants absorb large amounts of sodium?
If one doesn't add any salt to the food that they make, how else would sodium
get into one's body (and then into one's urine)? What is the 'sodium cycle', so
to speak? How does it enter our food chain? I guess we would recieve the largest
doses from meats - animals usually concentrate minerals. How would fish get
sodium into their bodies? What do they eat that has sodium?
Do any species of algae absorb sodium?
lars fields
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| Message 37 |
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Subject: Re: A thought about Urine
From: jilli and lars
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 18:52:46 -0800
hi michael -
Michael Strates wrote:
> The only salt I wanted to remove was sodium chloride. The problems I
> foresee in running a tiny urine based hydroponics setup is mainly the
> buildup of sodium chloride due to evaporation, transpiration, etc.. in the
> nutrient solution. Therefore, I'd assume that it would be imperative to
> flush about 10% of the water from the nutrient tanks every 2 weeks.
I agree with you.
I live in a low-rainfall region, and our city has started using chloramide,
which doesn't dissapate like chlorine, so I'd like to keep water changes to a
minimum.
I'd like to find a natural, non-technological solution to the problem.
Something that's *alive* that takes in sodium just by 'doing it's thing', so
to speak.
Maybe I should be looking into kelp. Or plants that thrive in brackish
environments - like taro, which did do well in my tiny system, though I don't
know if taro plants actually *absorb* sodium.
Reeds often grow in wetlands that are near the ocean. Does anybody
know of their sodium absorbing capabilities?
I wonder if high salt concentrations might actually improve the
general water-cleansing absorbtion qualities of reeds?
lars fields
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| Message 38 |
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Subject: Re: compost tea for hydroponics
From: jilli and lars
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 18:37:49 -0800
hi jorg-
In my opinion, compost tea (especially from worms) is probably THE most
perfect organic hydroponic nutrient solution available - and its free! My
plants thrive on the stuff.
lars fields
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| Message 39 |
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Subject: request for nutrient supplier
From: jilli and lars
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 19:23:28 -0800
Michael Strates wrote:
> On Mon, 15 Feb 1999, MS JEAN R SHAFFER wrote:
>
> MJRS> I'm going crazy trying to find a supplier of hydroponic nutrients.
> MJRS> All my inquiries have been returned with no forwarding address. You
> MJRS> have one I can email of phone for a supply?
>
> Try Wal-Mart. All hardware stalls should have at least one brand of
> hydroponic nute in their gardening section. If you need to order online,
> check out http://www.hydroponicsonline.com/ and follow the links off
> there, you should find something useful.
Michael -
if you've got so many worms, why don't you use your worm compost tea
as your hydroponic nutrients?
Jean -
You should seriously consider purchasing or building a worm composting
bin. The 'Wriggly Wranch', for example, works great. It has a spigot on the
bottom from which you can drain the compost tea which, when diluted, makes a
wonderful organic hydroponic nutrient solution. And it's free. Basically
you'll be taking some of your old vegetables and recycling them into new ones.
Or get a tank of large apple snails and feed them your scraps - kinda
like aquatic goats. Their wastes are then absorbed by the plants via the
typical aquaponic bacterial routes, etc etc.
If you have an aversion to things slimy, i can look up some old
recipes i've found for organic hydroponic 'teas' made from such things as wood
ash, bonemeal, bloodmeal, oyster shells, crushed cotton seed hulls, and other
things available in any garden center.
I believe that processed nutrient solutions are lacking in trace
elements and, more importantly, other natural subtleties which are found in
organic sources. Organic environments are much more chemically diverse than a
tank of aqua-blue miracle-gro, which, in my opinion, affects the taste to a
large degree. It give the plants some choice, so to speak.
lars fields
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| Message 40 |
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Subject: Re: A thought about Urine
From: William Evans
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 19:32:29 -0800
Tamarisk is a great sodium concentrator
jilli and lars wrote:
>
> hi michael -
>
> Michael Strates wrote:
>
> > The only salt I wanted to remove was sodium chloride.
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| Message 41 |
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Subject: Re: Urine for plant culture
From: William Evans
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 19:34:49 -0800
> Does anybody know which plants absorb large amounts of sodium?
>
> Tamarisk
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| Message 42 |
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Subject: RE: Tilapia Tank Culture (James Rakocy)
From: Jose Pelleya
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 17:41:43 -0700
Dear James and Alejandro:
What are your tanks made of, plastic or concrete? Is circular better than
square, plastic better than concrete?
If you do concrete, do you do a concrete floor or leave it as is, compact
it, gravel bottom????
What are the dimensions of the tank, height, length, depth?
By greenwater tanks, do you mean recirculating, filtered, etc?
We're planning to do a project here in Costa Rica, where they use the large
extensive pond method, and we're wondering the cost vs. return of doing a
closed system, more intensive. Many places here have water from the
rainforest, but dry season cuts down on the flow. What amount of
flow-through is considered good, how often does the water have to be
changed to be considered adequate? What kind of natural filtering system
can be used to treat the outflowing water, or is it necessary if the flow
is good enough?? Can it then be channeled back to the river without
treatment??
I very much appreciate your comments and learn more every day.
Jose
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| Message 43 |
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Subject: Re: A thought about Urine
From: jilli and lars
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 20:27:12 -0800
William Evans wrote:
> Tamarisk is a great sodium concentrator
thanks a lot, william.
I'm researching them already.
lars
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| Message 44 |
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Subject: Re: Heat Pumps
From: Dave Miller
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 23:26:06 -0500
Dale,
You mention heat pumps for heating air (or water)
Are these the geo-thermal type that benefit from the more constant
temperatures beneath the frost line?
--
Dave
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| Message 45 |
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Subject: Re: A thought about Urine
From: "Marc S. Nameth"
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 21:46:29 -0700
From: http://www.doitnow.com/~smd/tams.htm
"It is the source of the Manna of the Bible, which is
produced by a small sap sucking insect that turns the toxic
sap into a sweet honey like substance that drops to the
ground. It is still gathered in the Middle East and sold in
the markets."
Does this stuff have a commercial market?
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| Message 46 |
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Subject: Re: request for nutrient supplier
From: Michael Strates
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 02:58:18 +1100 (EST)
On Mon, 15 Feb 1999, jilli and lars wrote:
jal> if you've got so many worms, why don't you use your worm
jal> compost tea as your hydroponic nutrients?
I used to, but the worm farm quickly became anerobic after receiving that
much water regularly. Seeing worms can survive in oxygenated water, I'm
seriously thinking about permanently waterlogging the wormfarm,
circluating the nutes around to the plants and putting a few airstones in
the bottom for aeration.
jal> Or get a tank of large apple snails and feed them your
jal> scraps - kinda like aquatic goats. Their wastes are then
Hmm.. apple snails? Are those the snails in aquariums that eat the algae
that grows on the glass? Could these be an aquaponic replacement for
worms?!
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| Message 47 |
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Subject: Re: Feasability
From: Michael Strates
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 03:00:52 +1100 (EST)
On Mon, 15 Feb 1999, Mel Riser wrote:
MR> I too am just setting up my aquaponic setup as well. If there is a way to
MR> clean up ordinary compressor air I would like to know about it. For SCUBA
MR> air you have to use an oil-less compressor or residue would get in your
Gheez! I've been exposing myself with oil then! I've been filling tanks
with an industrial compressor (sit the tanks in the wading pool and fill).
Can you buy an inline oil filter from anywhere?
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| Message 48 |
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Subject: Re: Feasability
From: "Mel Riser"
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 23:04:55 -0600
Not really sure about something to clean the air after running through the
compressor. however I will check with my local dive shop with pointy
questions about breathing air and compressors.
I know several years ago I was diving in the Yucatan and heard of some
tourists getting sick from a bad compressor leaking oil and nasty into the
air.... I think however these divers did 2 dives a day for a week before
they started noticing weirdness in their lungs...
mr
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| Message 49 |
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Subject: Re: Feasability
From: KLOTTTRUE
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 00:02:46 EST
Michael,you asked if you can get an oil filter for your compressor
anywhere.Yes,you can buy them at an auto parts,or paint supplier.
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| Message 50 |
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Subject: Re: Compressed Air (was Solar Cells in production)
From: Michael Strates
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 03:09:27 +1100 (EST)
On Mon, 15 Feb 1999, Marc S. Nameth wrote:
MSN> The condensed water will take with it a lot more heat then
MSN> will be lost through friction. At any rate, we are talking
MSN> more about air that is compress only slightly and used
MSN> immediately, efficiency is much better and the only heat
MSN> loss in the motor since there is no cylinder involved.>
Hmm.. I compressed a plastic tank to 100 PSI and then suddenly removed the
pressure and inside the tank was a thick fog. This, I presume is water
vapour.
My question now is - could a compress/decompress cycle be used to rid a
room of humidity (ie: a greenhouse) and would this process (assuming that
the heat generated by compression could be radiated to something dense
like water) be able to produce cooler air because the air coming out of
the tank is at a higher pressure than the external air?
Hmm... physics is soo hard. ;-(
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| Message 51 |
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Subject: Re: Feasability
From: KLOTTTRUE
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 00:11:54 EST
You need to be careful,you can get a bad tank of
air,anywhere,anytime,compressors at dive shops are supposed to be inspected
and certified.My dive buddy got a bad tank of air once,if I hadn't been
there,he wouldn't be here!
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| Message 52 |
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Subject: Re: Feasability
From: Michael Strates
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 03:19:47 +1100 (EST)
On Tue, 16 Feb 1999 KLOTTTRUE wrote:
> You need to be careful,you can get a bad tank of
> air,anywhere,anytime,compressors at dive shops are supposed to be inspected
> and certified.My dive buddy got a bad tank of air once,if I hadn't been
> there,he wouldn't be here!
That's why I usually use NITROX. :-) What happens to you if you get a bad
tank with oil in it?? I know of a friend who copped carbon monoxide in his
tank.
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| Message 53 |
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Subject: Apple Snails
From: Michael Strates
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 03:12:23 +1100 (EST)
Hmm.. just rung up the Fisheries Dept. Now I'm angry. I was told several
months ago that I could not get Talapia in Victoria, and now I was told
that the Golden Apple Snail is not available in Australia, because they
fear it will cause damage to rice crops, etc..
The closest thing I can get is called a mystery snail.. any good?
S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO 65775 417-256-5124
Web page http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
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| Message 54 |
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Subject: Re: frogs
From: Gordon Watkins
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 23:16:49 -0600
Thanks for the reminder Jim. It's also worth reiterating that frogs can carry
ich, so there are some downsides to introducing them to aquaponic systems. I'll
post the results of my efforts as they become worthy of note.
Gordon
"James Rakocy, Ph.D." wrote:
> I once cautioned the group about the use of frogs. They can get into produce
> such as lettuce and make it unmarketable, especially the small
> newly-metamorphosed frogs. Jim R.
> >
> >Gordon Watkins wrote:
> >
> >> About a year and a half ago, I released a few worms in my gravel beds,
> both red
> >>
> >> small frogs I've released to help with pest control. There are many
> benefits to
> >> worms in aquaponic systems but I have yet to identify a detriment. Above
> all, they
> >> add one more strand in the web of life and help create a more diverse and
> stable
> >> mesocosm.
> >
> >thanks for that info, Gordon.
> >
> > What kind of frogs did you release? Tree frogs? One of the top
> predators in my
> >system-in-progress is going to be White's tree frogs, a large and hardy
> australian
> >species with apparently huge appetites. However, because of their size,
> they can be
> >quite destructive to non-sturdy plants. I've also heard that certain frogs
> eat slugs
> >besides many flying insects.
> >
> >lars
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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| Message 55 |
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Subject: Re: Compressed Air (was Solar Cells in production)
From: "Dale Robinson"
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 22:24:38 -0600
>Dr. Robinson,are you suggesting heat loss through friction? Friction causes
>heat,this is why air compressors have cooling fins,if they didn't the
>compressors would sieze up. The space shuttle has heat shields,to keep it
from
>burning up due to the friction it encounters upon reentry into the
atmosphere.
>Sorry I just couldn't help myself again! and no I'm not smoking anything, I
>used to,but I didn't inhale. Kenny Kruger
>
Yes I'm suggesting that some of the energy lost is from friction in piston
type air compressors. Some is lost due to water vapor condensing. Some
energy is lost from the compressed air cooling off in the storage tank.
These losses are the reason compressed air is so inefficient.
I'm still confused. Are you saying that the fins are heating the air inside
the compressed air tank? All the compressors I've seen have the fins on the
outside.
I 'm not sure where we're going with this! I thought we were talking about
the heat in compressed air and where it came from.
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| Message 56 |
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Subject: Re: Feasability
From: "Dale Robinson"
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 22:42:46 -0600
Back when I was in the produce packaging equipment manufacturing buisiness
we used a water seperator to dry the air followed by an oil lubricator with
mineral oil.
Hope this helps.
Best regards
Dale Robinson
prof-robinson@worldnet.att.net
http//home.att.net/~prof-robinson/page7.html
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| Message 57 |
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Subject: Re: List Netiquette
From: Dave Miller
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 00:24:51 -0500
Paula, Tom and Aquaponic Enthusiasts,
Might I suggest a few additions to the protocol of list servers:
1) Lively debate within the given appropriate topic is encouraged.
2) Relevance to a given list topic (Aquaponics) is subjective and is
likely to change lest we become stagnant and no long have a need to ask
questions.
3) Debates that become less so should be moved off line.
4) Petty questions may be important to the group and should not be
denied. Petty answers, however might be better answered privately (ie.
off line).
5) Anyone receiving some form of serious hate mail or SPAM or other
strong bad will (including off line) should report it to the list server
(in this case Tom and Paula). I would reccomend censure first ie., a
warning but otherwise drop them from the list. The point of any
gathering is to share and exchange information AND RESPECT DIFFERING
OPINIONS. One thing I personally enjoy about personality differences is
the variety of POSITIVE ideas co-sharing at no charge.
6) I am not sure why this occurs but please "wrap long lines". Some
folks post and the message extends beyond the screen. Perhaps this is
only available to Netscape and Explorer users so I apologize if you were
not aware that you were doing this. I can post privately to who does.
I love the energy of this list and I look forward to many posts but I
must state frankly that going away for 36 hours and coming home to 45
messages, some of which were bickering is a true waste of not only my
time but of the Internet bandwidth.
One thing I must stress: SNIP your replies to only the relevant
question being answered. There is no reason to repeat the entire
post(s) when hitting the reply to. Especially below your signature.
--
Dave
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| Message 58 |
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Subject: Re: Feasability
From: Michael Strates
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 03:13:41 +1100 (EST)
On Tue, 16 Feb 1999 KLOTTTRUE wrote:
> Michael,you asked if you can get an oil filter for your compressor
> anywhere.Yes,you can buy them at an auto parts,or paint supplier.
But do they work at really high pressures?
--
e-mail: mstrates@croftj.net www: http://www.croftj.net/~mstrates
See keyservers for PGP info. Linux! The OS of my Choice!
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned
skyward, for there you have been, and there you long to return."
- Leonardo da Vinci, and below an extract from John Fogerty's song:
Hey, Tonight - Gonna be tonight- Don't you know I'm flyin'- Tonight
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| Message 59 |
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Subject: Re: Feasability
From: KLOTTTRUE
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 00:33:54 EST
It can coat the air sacs in your lungs and you will smother even though you
have air in your lungs,and it can force the oil into your blood stream.Not a
pretty site! Ken
S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO 65775 417-256-5124
Web page http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
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