Aquaponics Digest - Sat 02/20/99
Message 1: Re: Lettuce post-harvest handling
from Glen Seibert
Message 2: Re: advise
from DRush35007
Message 3: The Frogmodule
from jilli and lars
Message 4: Re: Greywater Resources
from jilli and lars
Message 5: Re: request for nutrient supplier
from jilli and lars
Message 6: Re: Solar Heat
from KLOTTTRUE
Message 7: Mesclun
from Adriana Gutierrez
Message 8: Re: Solar Heat
from Adriana Gutierrez
Message 9: Re: Compressed Air (was Solar Cells in production)
from "Jorg D. Ostrowski"
Message 10: Re: Lettuce post-harvest handling
from S & S Aqua Farm
Message 11: good bacteria
from "Jorg D. Ostrowski"
Message 12: Re: Lettuce post-harvest handling
from S & S Aqua Farm
Message 13: greenwater
from "Jorg D. Ostrowski"
Message 14: RE: Tilapia Tank Culture
from S & S Aqua Farm
Message 15: Re: Compressed Air (was Solar Cells in production)
from KLOTTTRUE
Message 16: Re: feasability question about yellow perch
from S & S Aqua Farm
Message 17: Re: Solar Heat
from KLOTTTRUE
Message 18: Water cycles, was Re: feasibility question about yellow perch
from S & S Aqua Farm
Message 19: Re: request for nutrient supplier
from S & S Aqua Farm
Message 20: Re: Solar Heat
from "Ted Ground"
Message 21: Re: Water cycles, was Re: feasibility question about yellow perch
from "Jorg D. Ostrowski"
Message 22: Re: advise
from "Marc S. Nameth"
Message 23: Re: Solar Heat
from "Marc S. Nameth"
Message 24: RE: Tilapia Tank Culture (James Rakocy)
from james.rakocy@uvi.edu (James Rakocy, Ph.D.)
Message 25: Re: Greywater Resources
from Dave Miller
Message 26: Re: advise
from uweb@megalink.net.mx
Message 27: Re: Solar Heat
from jilli and lars
Message 28: Re: good bacteria
from jilli and lars
Message 29: Re: Solar Heat
from uweb@megalink.net.mx
Message 30: Re: Solar Heat
from uweb@megalink.net.mx
Message 31: Re: Lettuce post-harvest handling
from Adriana Gutierrez
Message 32: ceramic ponds
from jilli and lars
Message 33: Re: good bacteria
from Michael Strates
Message 34: Re: Biogas Series
from "Palchik"
Message 35: Re: advise
from "Glennert Riedel"
Message 36: Re: Solar Heat
from "Marc S. Nameth"
Message 37: RE:air/passive energy
from Andrew
Message 38: RE: duckweed
from Andrew
Message 39: RE: identifying crayfish from Florida
from Andrew
Message 40: RE: How true.
from Andrew
Message 41: RE: Lettuce post-harvest handling
from "Anthony & Roberta"
Message 42: RE: Lettuce post-harvest handling
from "Anthony & Roberta"
Message 43: Re: Lettuce post-harvest handling
from Dave Miller
Message 44: Re: Lettuce post-harvest handling
from Michael Strates
Message 45: RE: Lettuce post-harvest handling
from "Anthony & Roberta"
Message 46: RE: Lettuce post-harvest handling
from "Anthony & Roberta"
Message 47: United States Money Regulation
from "Marc S. Nameth"
Message 48: Re: How true.
from KLOTTTRUE
Message 49: Re: frogmodule
from uweb@megalink.net.mx
Message 50: Re: ceramic ponds
from uweb@megalink.net.mx
Message 51: Re: good bacteria
from doelle
Message 52: Re: good bacteria
from doelle
Message 53: Re: good bacteria
from doelle
Message 54: Re: good bacteria
from Michael Strates
Message 55: Re: ceramic (or strawbale) ponds
from "Fred Chambers, FMChambers@CSUPomona.edu"
Message 56: Re: ceramic ponds & other options
from David Beckham
Message 57: Re: Solar Heat
from jilli and lars
Message 58: Re: frogmodule
from jilli and lars
Message 59: Re: Solar Heat
from "Jorg D. Ostrowski"
Message 60: Re: good bacteria
from "Jorg D. Ostrowski"
Message 61: Re: recycling/wick system
from "Susanne Machler"
Message 62: Re: Solar Heat
from "Marc S. Nameth"
Message 63: tamarisk ,and out there....
from William Evans
Message 64: Re: recycling/wick system
from Dave Miller
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| Message 1 |
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Subject: Re: Lettuce post-harvest handling
From: Glen Seibert
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 00:47:50 -0800
MS JEAN R SHAFFER wrote:
>
> Could someone tell me what mesculn is. I maybe should be growing it.
>
> Thanks
> Jean
Hi Jean! Mesculn is a kind of lettuce..very trendy these days. Slightly
bitter, long, atennuated leaves with rough dentenated margins, not much
leaf tissue mass but a great flavor. Its being packaged as "European"
blends along with that awful stuff you get in a chilled bowl in Denny's.
Easy and fast to grow. Adds tang to a dull salad and looks great in
presentation.
Are you in commercial production? Some small growers have a clientel
that likes the freshness of a hydro grown product they can get every
couple of days from an independent.
--
Glen Seibert
Fullerton College
Hydroponics
http://www.hydroponicsonline.com/club.htm
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| Message 2 |
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Subject: Re: advise
From: DRush35007
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 04:18:29 EST
In a message dated 99-02-19 23:32:39 EST, you write:
<< They did not use iron in the construction.
The walls are very thick. I've used this technique. Soon I'll know if it
will hold. >>
Concrete has very high compressive strength, meaning it will directly support
great loads. It however has relatively low tensile strength, meaning it will
pull apart relatively easily. Concrete is also very brittle, and thus prone
to cracking (take a look at any concrete bridge, and see how it is cracked
throughout.) Steel reinforcing is used to dramatically improve the tensile
strength, and also to hold the pieces together when the cracking does occur.
I would definitely listen to the advice of placing steel reinforcing in the
tanks; it is relatively innexpensive and will increase the life expectancy of
your tanks.
Dave
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| Message 3 |
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Subject: The Frogmodule
From: jilli and lars
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 01:40:53 -0800
hello folks -
My Frogmodule (and shower) is nearing completion!
The main support stucture is now complete. And since I'm running
headlong
and installing the 'innards' into my system-in-progress, i thought i might
briefly
describe it to y'all. Then, if i'm making any fatal errors or leaving out any
important bits, you could maybe advise me before i've completely finalized (and
screwed up) everything.
The following system is an experimental greywater system. It is a
partially
self-contained shower and terrarium/aquarium in which the waste water from the
shower is treated by several linked miniature enviroments, each with slightly
different chemistries.
The main tank is 55 gallons. It's occupants will pearl gouramis,
and maybe
clown loaches. The water from it will be pumped (3 GPM optimally) from it to a
27"x27" free-draining hydroponic bed with 'feeder-line fed' ginger, monstera,
acanthus, moss, alocasia and possibly a banana plant. The water will then splash
into a 27"X27" marsh with horsetail, miniature reed, arum, taro, and iris. From
there it will gently flow back to the 55 gallon tank. The pump is run by PV,
so it
will recirculate the water continuously when the sun is out and not at all
when it's
cloudy/night. I have the water return gently to the main tank because
agitation of
water, although facilitating the absorbtion of oxygen, also very rapidly removes
dissolved co2. Since submerged aquatic plants require lots of co2 for good
health,
and I wish to have many aquatic plants in my 55 gallon tank, i'm doing all my
splashing for 02 in the marsh, where dissolved c02 isn't needed as much. I'm
also
leaving a small pool in the marsh where, hopefully, the frogs will lay their
eggs.
They hydroponics substrates will vary, but much of it will be a mixture of
peat and
gravel - the peat will help keep the water soft and slightly acidic, which
is what
pearl gouramis and clown loaches like.
A 10 gallon tank is connected by a 'u-tube' siphon to the main 55 gallon
tank. This is the snail tank - right now just a single,large apple snail
along with
about a hundred of your standard, tiny, rapidly-reproducing pond snails. It's
substrate is sand and oyster shells, which keeps the pH at a steady 7.4,
which the
snails like. It has parrot's feather, hygrophilia, waterweed, duckweed,
waterwort
and water hyacinth. I've also noticed very healthy quantities of your standard
aquatic invertebrates - planaria, daphnia, cyclops, hydra, and several other
minute
critters - forage food for fish, i'm thinking. I also recently discovered
either a
damsel- or dragonfly larva - must have hitchhiked on my water hyacinth. He
doesn't
seem to be interested in the snails, so i'm not going to bother him. This
was the
core tank from my first experimental system, which i just 'dismantled'
today, so it
is very healthy, filled with life, and well established.
Another 5 gallon plastic water jug is 'u-tubed' to the 10 gallon
snail tank.
This is for the greywater. We are making a bucket shower - a 5 gallon container
filled with hot water which is then gravity fed onto our heads. All the
greywater is
collected in another 5 gallon bucket underneath the drain. This 5 gallon
bucket is
then u-tubed to the snail tank. The theory is that only small amounts of
greywater
will be added to the system at a time. Basically, when the pump in the main 55
gallon tank activates, the water level will lower a fraction, which will
'suck' some
water from the 10 gallon tank. This will cause the water level in the 10
gallon tank
to lower, which will, in turn 'suck' a small amount of greywater into the system
from the 5 gallon system. Hopefully, this will be less of a shock than dumping a
bunch of greywater into the system at once.
This entire thing (including the shower) is enclosed in a glass
space which
measures (approx) 7' wide x 4' deep x 7' tall. Most of this vertical space
will be
for the treefrogs I mentioned (branches, orchids, epiphytes). It also has
space for
my worm compost bin which will add co2 for the benefit of my plants (and
generate
flies for the frogs). All of this is on a 3 foot high table which is mounted on
heavy duty caster wheels, so the Frogmodule is about 10 feet tall total.
This also
allows the floor of the shower to be used as a sink. Many of the materials were
found on the streets - including 4 large panes of glass, both fishtanks, tiles,
slate, plants, critters, branches, tarpaper. About 80% of the wood was
either found
or salvaged wood that I purchased (with the help of a good friend with an
automobile). The hydroponic containers will be made from 5 gallon
polyethylene jugs
with the tops cut off - the kind that cooking oil for restaurants comes in
(9 for
each hydroponic bed).
I plan on only using soaps that have been made with potassium
hydroxide to
reduce the buildup of sodium. I
Unfortunately, since we only have westward facing windows, I have
to use
supplemental lighting, but only for part of the day. I hope to maintain 75
to 85
degree temps inside the Frogmod passively despite the fact that our space is
unheated - and San Francisco can be quite cool even in the summer. But we
are in the
mission district which is the sunniest microclimate in the city - we are in
the 'fog
shadow' of a large hill directly to the west so the fog that comes in from
the ocean
can't usually make it over that hill. Unfortunately, that also makes it the
driest
microclimate - not a single drop of rain for about 6 months last year - not one
drop!. Difficult to have a water catchment system without massive storage.
Thats about all i can think of right now.
What do y'all think?
any glaring mistakes, any words of caution?
Anything strike you as a good idea? bad idea?
thanks a lot for your time.
and I thank everybody for their input and being such good sounding boards.
You all
really kept my brain fired up. We make a good neural ganglia, despite the
occasional
misfiring neuron (often me!). I've learned a lot.
If anybody would like some jpegs and/or an .AVI movie of the final computer
model
of the Frogmodule, just ask and i'll send them to your emailbox. I'll also
eventually have some AVI's of the *actual* module, but not until it's
finished. I've
even been experimenting with time lapse - a lot goes on in your tanks that
you don't
realize until you speed time up a bit. Very intersting to watch the time
lapse of
the module on a partially cloudy day as the pump varies its output depending on
sunshine - looks like the plants are slurping.
lars
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| Message 4 |
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Subject: Re: Greywater Resources
From: jilli and lars
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 01:45:18 -0800
>
hi dave -
i think you might have missed a reply to your message I posted up a
couple of days ago, so here it is again. If you didn't miss it, sorry...
> So you're trying to make potassium hydroxide as opposed to sodium hydroxide?
>
> > The residue in
> > greywater would be safer for garden use. I'm not sure how it would
> > affect an aquaponic or hydroponic system but I would believe it would
> > break down safer with less salts or other residues.
>
> I can see this is starting to veer a little off topic. Can you please tell me
> (via private email) how one would go about making potassium hydroxide out of
> wood ash? My partner is actually the soapmaker - she has made soap using lye,
> olive oils and other oils - it was very successul.. It would be great to make
> our own potassium lye.
>
> Thank you so much for this information.
>
> lars fiel
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| Message 5 |
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Subject: Re: request for nutrient supplier
From: jilli and lars
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 01:47:31 -0800
hey jean -
haven't forgotten about you - still waiting on that info from a
friend. I _do_ know that its from Australia, but i'm here in the states,
so i guess they ship em on those big container ships, cuz it was only
$30.00US. more info to come!...
lars
MS JEAN R SHAFFER wrote:
> Dear Lars
>
> Could you give me an email address or snail mail one for the Reln
> Wriggly Wranch.
>
> Best
> Jea
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| Message 6 |
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Subject: Re: Solar Heat
From: KLOTTTRUE
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 05:40:32 EST
I'm open for suggestions on solar heat collectors and storage.Any ideas from
anyone would be greatly apreciated.Thanks Ken
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| Message 7 |
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Subject: Mesclun
From: Adriana Gutierrez
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 08:09:41 -0500
Mesculn is a kind of lettuce..very trendy these days.
Actually, mesclun is not a "type" of lettuce but is a "mix" of
baby lettuces and greens such as abay romaine, rosalita, mustard
greens, dandelion, oriental greens, etc. Most seed growers
provide a mixed seed or you can come up with your own.
Adriana
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| Message 8 |
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Subject: Re: Solar Heat
From: Adriana Gutierrez
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 08:16:41 -0500
Ken,
I just started reading the book Solviva by Anna Edey; she has
some great simple solar collectors built into her home and
greenhouse. Don't order the book from Amazon, contact
Trailblazer press directly and they'll send it out the same day.
Solviva - How to Grow $500,000 on One Acre and Peace on Earth
By Anna Edey 1998
Solviva Trailblazer Press
RFD 1 Box 582, Vineyard Haven, MA 02568 USA
Tel/Fax: 508-693-3341
solviva@vineyard.net
224 pages $35, plus $5 ship.
KLOTTTRUE wrote:
>
> I'm open for suggestions on solar heat collectors and storage.Any ideas from
> anyone would be greatly apreciated.Thanks Ken
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| Message 9 |
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Subject: Re: Compressed Air (was Solar Cells in production)
From: "Jorg D. Ostrowski"
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 07:10:10 -0700 (MST)
Gordon: Do you or anyone know of any manufacturers, suppliers or web sites
for this system? I would like to check it out more. Jorg Ostrowski
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| Message 10 |
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Subject: Re: Lettuce post-harvest handling
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 08:13:06 -0600
At 12:22 PM 2/19/99 -0500, Adriana wrote:
>
>I know somebody who washes because of dust. I have some dust now
>but hope to reduce it when my house is re-screened before the
>first harvest.
We've not had any problem with dust here, so have no ready solution; but
diagnosing the cause and finding a solution to eliminate the dust would seem
to be a priority item. Where does the dust come in, and how will the
screening change that?
I also have fine misters hooked up above my beds
>so I could give the plants a misting a few hours before harvest
>to clean off any dust has has gotten past the screen. I have
>access to a cooler so if the washing is just to drop the temp
>then I can bypass it and eliminate handling and speed up
>processing.
I'm guessing that the misters are used to lower temps at the crop height.
Is there another solution to this? Are you using shade cloth? Would the
aluminized cloth aid your cooling so that you can eliminate the misters?
I understand the benefits of using cool water to lower temperatures to
maintain product quality quickly after harvest (especially in field crops
where harvesting continues late in the day). Perhaps it would be better to
adjust your harvest schedule to take advantage of the cooler hours so that
the product doesn't have to be cooled prior to reaching the cooler. How
about increasing your harvest workers so that the time from cut to cooler
could be reduced?
>Paula, do you cool your greens in the boxes you use to deliver
>or do you have some type of crate that allows the leaves to cool
>down quickly? I noticed that when I leave mesclun uncovered in
>my home refrigerator for a few hours the leaves get somewhat
>dehydrated. Is this because they are not bagged? Possibly it is
>also a function of temperature, I've read that greens should be
>keep just above 32 degrees and my refrigerator at home is higher
>than that.
We've always gone quickly from cut to bagging to cooler. Since our handling
area is attached to the greenhouse, this has worked well for us. If your
home refrigerator is a "frost-free" model, this could account for your
"dehydrated" appearance. We cut and pack salad greens without washing or
spinning, because there (1) is no need, and (2) the extra handling causes
cell breakdown in the product, reducing shelf life. Once bagged (either in
standard zip-lock or heat-sealed poly bags), product stays fresh and usable
up to 1-1/2 weeks.
Paula
S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO 65775 417-256-5124
Web page http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
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| Message 11 |
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Subject: good bacteria
From: "Jorg D. Ostrowski"
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 07:18:44 -0700 (MST)
You said:"These are good bacteria that break down organic matter and
transform ammonia to nitrate."
___________________________________________________________________
Jim: Would this good bateria be useful in our (and Lars'system?) greywater
treatment system to help breakdown organic matter and perhaps even reduce
or eliminate any hydrogen sulfide (H2S)? Thanks for your short response.
Jorg Ostrowski
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| Message 12 |
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Subject: Re: Lettuce post-harvest handling
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 08:20:17 -0600
At 02:48 PM 2/19/99 -0500, Adriana wrote:
>I also wonder how clean is
>> necessary if the end users are just going to wash it anyway?
>
>Jeff, the real question is, do the buyers expect washed, ready to
>serve produce. I suspect that the answer is "yes" if that is
>what they can get through the large wholesalers for greens coming
>out of California. If so, ours has to be also.
My understanding for sales of gourmet greens (and my experience with retain
sales also) is that the customer wants to be able to use straight from the
bag/box to the plate. My direct sales customers do NOT wash the greens
before serving.
For what reason do you believe the greens will have to be washed from your
production area to the plate?
Paula
S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO 65775 417-256-5124
Web page http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
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Subject: greenwater
From: "Jorg D. Ostrowski"
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 07:25:42 -0700 (MST)
You said:"In our recent greenwater trial..."
_________________________________________________________________________
Jim: Would you be able to give us a short abstract of the above? Jorg
Ostrowski
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| Message 14 |
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Subject: RE: Tilapia Tank Culture
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 08:33:11 -0600
At 05:41 PM 2/15/99 -0700, Jose wrote:
>What are your tanks made of, plastic or concrete? Is circular better than
>square, plastic better than concrete?
We use tanks and grow beds manufactured by Polytank
(http://www.polydome.com/polytank.html), although we understand that these
tanks will not be available everywhere. We're quite satisfied with them,
and use black tanks to aid in solar gain and heat retention.
Our tanks are circular because we feel that the water quality is aided by
the ability to more thoroughly remove the solids from the fish tanks,
although we understand there are new trough (square/rectangular?) systems
that have a design that aids in solids removal also.
>If you do concrete, do you do a concrete floor or leave it as is, compact
>it, gravel bottom????
We have a concrete floor in our greenhouse, but feel a floor built of "road
base" gravel would serve the same purpose.
Paula
S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO 65775 417-256-5124
Web page http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
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Subject: Re: Compressed Air (was Solar Cells in production)
From: KLOTTTRUE
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 09:35:34 EST
http://www.aquaticecosystems.com , Site for blowers.
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| Message 16 |
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Subject: Re: feasability question about yellow perch
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 08:41:40 -0600
At 11:39 AM 2/17/99 -0500, Carol wrote:
>I am in Ohio, just talked to a local guy who does recirculation fish
>farming. Trout, walleye, and yellow perch, the yellow perch being the ones
>I am interested in. He was fairly scornful of the whole aquaponiker notion.
>His son, he was quick to tell me, is a PhD and he (the son) is CERTAIN that
>there isn't a chance of it working. ie: water quality good enough for fish
>won't support plant life, water that will support plant life will kill the
>fish. Confusion sets in. I am setting this up in April and need advice.
>Is there the slightest chance of this working? Are you folks actually
>growing fish?
Carol, this attitude is not an isolated case. Luckily for us, we heard from
the "experts" both on the aquaculture and horticulture sides AFTER we had a
system up and working. I think you'll find many on this list who have
operating systems that work, with methods and economics being the only areas
of non-agreement.
My plan is for a 12' diameter tank and 2 - 3 4'x8' growing
>beds. Are perch specificly likely to succeed?
Having no experience with perch, I personally can't advise. I do think,
however, that your ratio will be high on the fish side. What type of grow
beds will you use. The ratio of 2 cu. ft. of grow space to 1 cu. ft. of
water is what we use, with a maximum fish (Tilapia) stocking ratio of 1/2 to
3/4# per gallon.
Paula
S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO 65775 417-256-5124
Web page http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
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| Message 17 |
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Subject: Re: Solar Heat
From: KLOTTTRUE
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 09:57:39 EST
Thanks Adrianna,for the info on solar collectors.Ken
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Subject: Water cycles, was Re: feasibility question about yellow perch
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 09:00:11 -0600
At 12:51 PM 2/18/99 -0700, Jorg wrote:
>
>you said:"The system as set up at the S&S Aqua Farms doesn't allow
>the build up of waste from the fish to reach harmful levels as the water
>is cycled thru the gravel medium fairly often "
>__________________________________________________________________________
>Brett/Paula: How often is best? I used to do it 24 hours/day. That
>required 415 kWh/year. Now it is on a timer for 0.5 hr/day, which only
>requires 5 kWh/year. From an energy point of view that is good. Is that
>good enough for my gravel hydroponics and the fish? Jorg Ostrowski
This very question is one we're researching now. While we've always cycled
on a 24 hours/day cycle (controlled by tank water levels, not timers), Dr.
Rakocy has proposed that using blowers in the tank(s) will reduce the need
for continuous/intermittent cycling and lower energy/equipment costs.
As far as what's "good enough" for your system, I think evaluating whether
the system is performing as you want it to is the best gauge of that. Your
system is very different from ours.
Paula
S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO 65775 417-256-5124
Web page http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
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| Message 19 |
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Subject: Re: request for nutrient supplier
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 09:03:27 -0600
At 04:49 PM 2/18/99 EST, Jaarvis wrote:
>i noticed the request for liquid nutrients
>
>i work in the research and development department at General Hydroponics,
>predominately testing a variety of nutrient formulas
Are these nutrient solutions designed for use in aquaponics systems or
strictly for hydroponics (without incorporating aquaculture)?
Paula
S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO 65775 417-256-5124
Web page http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
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| Message 20 |
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Subject: Re: Solar Heat
From: "Ted Ground"
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 09:12:44 -0600
> From: KLOTTTRUE
> To: aquaponics@townsqr.com
> Subject: Re: Solar Heat
> Date: Saturday, February 20, 1999 4:40 AM
>
> I'm open for suggestions on solar heat collectors and storage.Any ideas
from
> anyone would be greatly apreciated.Thanks Ken
Ken,
I assume you meant solar water heaters?
For direct solar heating of water, try contacting Geo Trading Company 2220
W. 27th Ave. Eugene, OR 97405 phone 503-343-6071. They distribute a
practical solar hot water heater for the home called the Copper Cricket.
It works on thermosiphoning, therefore it has no pumps or electric valves
or electronic controls. It can furnish 45-95% of a home's hot water,
depending on climate and conservation practices. The relatively high price
of around $2700 works out pretty well as an investment for either the hard
core eco-warrior, or the penny wise home owner- paying for itself in 4 to 5
years or so, depending on local energy costs in your region of the world.
On the cheap end of the scale, there are simple collector panels you can
build if you can figure out a way to pump and store the hot water. One
design in particular was described by Marshall C. Ray, North Carolina
Wildlife Resources Commission, Fayetteville State Fish Hatchery,
Fayetteville, North Carolina 28304.
The panel is made of a 4x8 sheet of exterior plywood, a 4x8 sheet of clear
fiberglass, a 4x8 sheet of 3/4 inch styrofoam insulation, and some 2x4s to
make the outer frame.
He used 400 feet of 1/2 inch flexible black plastic water line made into 2
fairly tight coils placed adjacent to each other on top of the styrofoam
insulation. The fiberglas panel covers the whole affair as an airtight
glazing. The water can get pretty gosh darned hot using this contraption.
(110 to 120 degrees F) The panel can be placed outside your aquaponic
greenhouse and faced south at a 45 degree angle. (I intend to place
several of these on the existing frame above my evaporative cooling vent
panels on the south side of my green house, along with several photovoltaic
panels, whenever I get all that time I am hoping for)
He used one Continental water pump, Model EC-33A1/3M ($100), two old 41
gallon hot water heater tanks, a Repeat cycle timer Model C8865 ($50), a
thermostat with probe Penn Model A-19 ABC-24 ($30), and various 1/2 inch
gate valves. Every 15 minutes the cycle timer activates the water pump and
approximately 5 gallons of heated water is pumped from the solar panel into
one of the storage tanks. At night, the system is shut off to avoid
cooling the water mass.
This system was used to heat water for brine shrimp culture as part of the
striped bass fry hatchery operations there in North Carolina. It is
described in detail in a Technical Note that appeared on pages 283-285 of
an issue of the Progressive Fish Culturist, way back in 1982 or 1983.
Sorry I don't have the particular volume to refer you to, but a trip to
your local university library, an interlibrary loan, or a request for a
reprint from Marshall Ray directly by mail might get you a copy.
You can also get good solar hot water heater, photovoltaic (PV), and other
energy related information and products from Real Goods, 966 Mazzoni Stret,
Ukiah, CA 95482 phone 800 762 7325 in California call 707 468-9214. (I
think Real Goods also distributes the Copper Cricket, along with the 12 or
24 volt deep well submersible pump call the Solar Jack)
Other PV suppliers are
Kirkby Solar Electric, Catalog $2 from P.O. Box 12455, Scottsdale, AZ 85267
phone 602 433-8520....
Flowlight Solar Power Catalog & Handbook $6 from P.O. Box 5489 Santa Cruz,
NM 87567 phone 505 753-9699.....
Photocomm, Inc Energy Systems Catalog $5.95 from: Catalog Division, P.O.
Box 649, North San Juan CA 95960; phone 800 544-6466 or 916 292-3754.
An excellent resource and reference book is The New Solar Electric Home
(The photovoltaics How-To Handbook) by Joel Davidson. Available from AATEC
Publications P.O. Box 7119, Ann Arbor MI 48107; phone 313 995 1470.
Another handy little how to book is the RVer's Guide to Solar Battery
Charging by Noel and Barbar Kirkby, also from AATEC Publicatons.
A solar powered, solar-heated aquaponics greenhouse would be a thing to
behold.
Happy Plumbing, or Wiring!
Ted
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| Message 21 |
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Subject: Re: Water cycles, was Re: feasibility question about yellow perch
From: "Jorg D. Ostrowski"
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 08:13:11 -0700 (MST)
Paula: Thank you for your response and considering my request. We are now
monitoring 0.5hr/day to see if this works. This is simultaneously the
ebb & flow for the hydroponics. Thanks again. Jorg ostrowski
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| Message 22 |
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Subject: Re: advise
From: "Marc S. Nameth"
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 08:45:06 -0700
In my readings and practical experience (we build various
custom ponds and potable water storage systems) concrete
does cause significant water quality changes for a few weeks
after it's initial "cure" time. After this period it
increasingly behaves in an increasingly inert way with no
need to coat it for water quality purposes. There is no
substitute for knowing what your water chemistry is.
Concrete additives and the entrained air content will also
affect the concrete water quality "personality". There are
well defined concrete "recipes" that work best for water
storage and living things. A competent concrete supplier
should be an expert information source regarding various
"canned" formulas that meet EPA, NSF or health department
approvals.
We do not use coatings due to issues regarding the finding
of pollutants from coatings long after application. When we
use coatings we always research approvals and rigorously
follow application rules to maximize our success.
The main issue with coatings is application. Incorrect
application (mixing, ambient temperature, humidity, shade,
direct sunlight, etc. factors) will almost always cause
these materials to affect water quality.
Some coatings, even though approved for potable water, are
toxic during application and cure.
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| Message 23 |
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Subject: Re: Solar Heat
From: "Marc S. Nameth"
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 09:03:09 -0700
Direct heating of water requires the solar panel to be
either drained or heated during freezing weather when using
components that will rupture like copper pipe. This is the
number one problem we run into when servicing direct gain
solar water heating panels and it is especially prevalent in
the home built systems. I suggest a good deal of attention
to this point.
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| Message 24 |
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Subject: RE: Tilapia Tank Culture (James Rakocy)
From: james.rakocy@uvi.edu (James Rakocy, Ph.D.)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 12:59:14 -0400 (AST)
Jose, There are many possibilities, so I'll give you my bias.
>What are your tanks made of, plastic or concrete?
Fiberglass tanks are very expensive and not feasible for very large tanks.
Concrete in less expansive, but it still costs a lot, and poured concrete
usually cracks over time. I'm thinking about building very large tanks by
building the walls out of concrete blocks and leaving soil or sand in the
bottom and lining the whole tank including walls with low density
polyethylene liners, perhaps 30 mils thick. Liners are much less expensive
than poured concrete. Circular is always better than square or rectangular
because it is self-cleaning if it has a central drain.
Is circular better than
>square, plastic better than concrete?
>
>If you do concrete, do you do a concrete floor or leave it as is, compact
>it, gravel bottom????
>
You need a floor or your tank will not hold water.
>What are the dimensions of the tank, height, length, depth?
The height is usually 4 ft. and the diameter varies from 8 ft to more than
100 ft.
>
>By greenwater tanks, do you mean recirculating, filtered, etc?
By greenwater I mean water containing high levels of phytoplankton and also
high levels of good bacteria growing on suspended organic matter.
>
>We're planning to do a project here in Costa Rica, where they use the large
>extensive pond method, and we're wondering the cost vs. return of doing a
>closed system, more intensive.
A closed system, as in a closed recirculating system, would be too expensive
there. Of course the best system would be a flow-through system like the one
Rain Forest uses with earthen channels. If your water is somewhat limited
during the year, do earthen ponds with relatively high water exchange rates.
In Honduras, they achieve final densities of 1-2.3 kg/m3 with water exchange
rates of 1-20%/day in a three phase growout. In Jamaica, they achieve final
densities of 4.9-40.2 kg/m3 (mean = 6.3 kg/m3) with water exchange rates
greater than 130%/day and aeration in a two phase growout. During the dry
season cut back on stocking rates.
Many places here have water from the
>rainforest, but dry season cuts down on the flow. What amount of
>flow-through is considered good, how often does the water have to be
>changed to be considered adequate?
There's not set rule. Higher water exchange rates mean more fish production.
The maximum practical tilapia density based on water exchange alone is about
56 kg/m3. The exchange rate for this production is equivalent to 1
kg/liter/min. If you aerate, you can produce more. In our greenwater tank
systems we produced 17 kg/m3 with less than 1% water exchange per day with
heavy aeration. In a static ponds you can produce about 0.5 kg/m3 with no
water exchange or aeration.
What kind of natural filtering system
>can be used to treat the outflowing water, or is it necessary if the flow
>is good enough?? Can it then be channeled back to the river without
>treatment??
In the States settling ponds are required in some areas to take out
settleable solids. There's been a lot of work on artificial wetlands but
these are not required yet. In Costa Rica you could probably return the
water back to the river if the flow is great enough. Rivers are great at
organic waste treatment, but ultimately too much organic waste will increase
sedimentsloads, reduce oxygen levels, and impact the ecology.
>
>I very much appreciate your comments and learn more every day.
>
>Jose
S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO 65775 417-256-5124
Web page http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
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| Message 25 |
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Subject: Re: Greywater Resources
From: Dave Miller
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 12:50:17 -0500
Take a barrel and put a tap in the bottom side. Fill with wood ash and
pour rainwater into it. Collect the solution from the tap. This will
be a very weak solution. Pour through again and again until the
concentration desired. To test, a hard boiled egg should just sink
(almost float).
For more info get the following great books:
The Natural Soap Book by Susan Miller Cavitch
The Complete Soapmaker by Norma Coney
links:
http://waltonfeed.com/old/soaphome.html
http://www.angelfire.com/ms/soapmaking/
http://members.aol.com/bnygrdn/annabella/soapmaking.html
Lots more available on the web, just search:
Lye, lyemaking, potassium hydroxide
The potassium will fertilize the plants but be careful to balance with
nitrogen and phosperous,etc.
--
Dave
_______________________________________
«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
A "green" home remodeler
A father of 2 cockatiels
An organic farmer
A veggie drummer/keyboardist
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| Message 26 |
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Subject: Re: advise
From: uweb@megalink.net.mx
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 11:22:28 -600
>I haven't looked into it yet but maybe clay is hard to get here. I'll
>look into it tomorrow. How thick must this layer be ?
>What is better epoxy or the lime/clay plaster ?
A layer of about 1/8 inch should be enough. Dissolve the lime in abundant water,
and let it sit for a day or two. Then carefully take out just the lime, screen
it for better results, and mix it with your clay (hopefully you get it for a
good price). You will have to add quite some water, as the chemical reaction
begins. Mix to the consistency of a stiff yogurt, and apply. Cover it with some
(always) wet burlap and plastic foil until hard to the pressure of your thumb.
Now it's time to gently rub wax or oil into it (if you want). You should do
this work in the early evening, just after the sun doesn't heat the walls any
more. This would make the plaster even more impermeable to moisture.
Regarding the epoxy, my guts tell me not to use it. Why should I, when there
is lime? As I said before, it even creates a hostile environment for the
pathogens,
so I would go for it. Even if clay is not at hand at your place, it shouldn't
be too hard to get it (Home Depot, etc.), and the cost shouldn't be to high
either. But that's just an opinion.
Uwe
http://www.megalink.net.mx
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| Message 27 |
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Subject: Re: Solar Heat
From: jilli and lars
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 11:09:37 -0800
hey ken -
One thing you should keep in mind is that few materials have as high a
heat potential as good 'ole H2O. For storing heat, that is the best way to go.
So if you've got a greenhouse filled with black-bottomed ponds, you already
have a pretty good passive solar collector and heat battery.
You can keep this in mind and try to maximize your heat gain. Maybe,
lets say, by taking the air you are going to use to oxygenate the water from
the upper parts of the greenhouse, as hot air rises. Maybe some of the heat
from the air would enter the water as it bubble through? I'm not aure about
that, as i didn't pay enough attention to all the air compressor talk.
Another important thing is to minimize heat loss by doubling up on your
layers - either double glazing or double plastic or whatever your greenhouse is
made of. This traps a layer of air, which doesn't conduct heat very well and
reduces your heat loss to the outside. You might even want to consider a system
of retractable curtains for night, if your system is small enough. Or maybe
just syrofoam coverings for the ponds (epscially if you are growing species
that need high temps), as most plants don't mind dips into the 40's (F) at
night. Additionally, you should put a border of insulation around the inside
perimeter of your greenhouse to about a foot or two deep, and maybe put a layer
of solid-foam insulation under the ponds - this will minimize heat loss to the
surrounding ground - the earth 'wants' that heat and will try to 'wick' it out
of your greenhouse, so to speak.
If I remember the weather you are dealing with (central Georgia),
you've got very hot and humid summers - you'd probably want to open any
greenhouse as much as possible then, or even take off any coverings. However,
since water also absorbs heat, the ponds might help temper the higher temps,
but since the temp doesn't drop much at night, that might not be very
effective. This 'thermal flywheel' works best in environments like deserts,
where you've got hot day temps with low night temps.
However, the georgia winters are pretty suitable for solar, as it can
get pretty cold there- small frosts aren't that unusual. Central georgia
winters can best be described as highly variable - i remember 70's in january
once, then snow in february of the same year. However, you've got the advantage
that the coldest weather is also usually the sunniest. The temperature is
typically lowest during those cold, clear-skied, static-in-your-sweater, high
pressure systems. Since those systems are also usually teh sunniest, your heat
gain should be highest. The cloudy, low pressure systems are typically much
warmer (partially because the low cloud cover actually bounces back the heat
that the earth is re-radiating), so your heat loss and your heating
requirements would be less. During these periods, the heat absorbed by the
ponds would be re-radiated out to the rest of the greenhouse, especially if
you've insulated underneath the ponds.
About a month ago, someone posted the URL which has info about 'solar
closets'. At a glance, it seems like pretty dry reading, but if you're not into
numbers and formulas you can just skip those parts and read the rest. It
describes a simple, low cost, passive system for heat absorption and storage. A
solar closet integrated into a greenhouse would probably work well and have a
small cost. The 'hybrid' system uses an air collector with water storage. The
advantage of this hybrid (air/water) system is that it is easier and cheaper to
make an air-based solar collector rather than a water-based one, as making
something water tight is somewhat more difficult and dealing with the freezing
and corrosion issues is eliminated. Air is also lighter and therefor requires
less energy to move if you need to adapt it as an active system - ie. if your
arrangement won't allow for thermosiphoning and your collector has to be
mounted above your storage containers. Hot air collectors are also lighter so
they require less support structure. They also don't need as much copper, which
is quite expensive.
here is that 'solar closet' URL:
http://leia.ursinus.edu/~physics/solar.html
at least i think it is - the server was down when i checked it a moment ago
hope this helps,
lars
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| Message 28 |
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Subject: Re: good bacteria
From: jilli and lars
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 11:13:43 -0800
Hey jorg -
I think you already have those bacteria. I believe he is referring to
n-somas and n-bacter, our little aquaponic friends which convert ammonia to
nitrites and then to nitrates. They are probably living on your gravel and plant
roots in symbiotic bliss, no?
Am i missing something?
lars
Jorg D. Ostrowski wrote:
> You said:"These are good bacteria that break down organic matter and
> transform ammonia to nitrate."
> ___________________________________________________________________
> Jim: Would this good bateria be useful in our (and Lars'system?) greywater
> treatment system to help breakdown organic matter and perhaps even reduce
> or eliminate any hydrogen sulfide (H2S)? Thanks for your short response.
> Jorg Ostrowski
> _________________________________________________________________________
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| Message 29 |
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Subject: Re: Solar Heat
From: uweb@megalink.net.mx
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 12:24:42 -600
>I'm open for suggestions on solar heat collectors and storage.Any ideas from
>anyone would be greatly apreciated.Thanks Ken
Hi Ken,
what exactly do you want to do with these collectors and heat storage? I don't
have hands-on experience, but know some theory.
Uwe
http://www.megalink.net.mx
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| Message 30 |
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Subject: Re: Solar Heat
From: uweb@megalink.net.mx
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 12:31:42 -600
>Direct heating of water requires the solar panel to be
>either drained or heated during freezing weather when using
>components that will rupture like copper pipe. This is the
>number one problem we run into when servicing direct gain
>solar water heating panels and it is especially prevalent in
>the home built systems. I suggest a good deal of attention
>to this point.
This hot water deal makes me remember a question I've had in mind for some time
now: which material is the best to use for the radiator of a passive system?
There were many opinions about this on another list (aluminum bomite, copper,
etc.), but no conclusion. Any suggestions?
Uwe
http://www.megalink.net.mx
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| Message 31 |
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Subject: Re: Lettuce post-harvest handling
From: Adriana Gutierrez
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 14:39:35 -0500
> We've not had any problem with dust here, so have no ready solution; but
> diagnosing the cause and finding a solution to eliminate the dust would seem
> to be a priority item. Where does the dust come in, and how will the
> screening change that?
I'm not sure of the source of the dust, we're in the middle of a
40 acre tract with minimal activitt. Quite a bit of dust seeps
in through the ground cover cloth. I plan to recover the main
aisle so that may correct it.
> I also have fine misters hooked up above my beds
> I'm guessing that the misters are used to lower temps at the crop height.
> Is there another solution to this?
Actually the misters are left over from the previous life of this
greenhouse as a "bougainvilla house", I'm finding them convenient
for other uses, however, but cooling is not one of them.
Are you using shade cloth? My house has a glass roof and
several people have recommended spraing the roof with greenhouse
paint instead of installing shade cloth. It will will wear off
over the course of the season.
We cut and pack salad greens without washing or
> spinning, because there (1) is no need, and (2) the extra handling causes
> cell breakdown in the product, reducing shelf life. Once bagged (either in
> standard zip-lock or heat-sealed poly bags), product stays fresh and usable
> up to 1-1/2 weeks.
I like your practical approach, do you use the "breathable
bags"? It sounds like you don't, and if you're getting a 10 day
shelf life that's great without the need to go to a fancier (ie
more expensive) package.
Thanks once again for sharing your hard-earned experience.
Adriana
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| Message 32 |
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Subject: ceramic ponds
From: jilli and lars
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 11:49:11 -0800
Hi Uwe -
Thank you so much for the priceless information.
I've been looking for an elegant solution the the problem of water
containment
for a long time, and i hadn't really heard of one until now.
I've also been thinking about ceramics.Have you heard of Nader
Khalili? He's
written a book about a 'new' (well, more like 'rediscovered') method for
making ceramic
houses. Basically, the method is similar to adobe, except after you build the
structure, you place large burners inside, seal it up and fire the whole
structure from
the inside out for a day or so. The clay/sand adobe material eventually
vitrifies and
you are left with a ceramic house that won't melt in the rain like standard
adobe does.
You can even certain glaze surfaces (like integrated sinks and tubs), and
fire your
plates, mugs and floor tiles at the same time. The book is called "Ceramic
Houses and
Earth Architecture".
I was thinking that similar methods could be used to create large,
permanent,
waterproof ponds. Since a pond is open at the top, you would have to cover
it with some
sort of fire-blanket to keep the heat in during the firing process, but i
believe it
would work. If the pond is above ground, one would also want to buttress the
walls to
support the outward pressure of the water, but they wouldn't have to be
fired if they
were protected from the rain.
Adobe is quite labor intensive, but it's extremely low tech, and
despite the
seemingly large amount of energy to run the big gas burners for a day, the
embodied
energy of the final pond would be far, far lower than any other method which
uses
manufactured materials like cement or plastic. Additionally, in many regions
one can
rent a tow-to-site adobe block press which would greatly speed up the
process. You just
put the proper dirt mixture in the hopper and out comes the blocks.
What do you think?
lars fields
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| Message 33 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: good bacteria
From: Michael Strates
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 18:00:53 +1100 (EST)
On Sat, 20 Feb 1999, Jorg D. Ostrowski wrote:
JDO> Jim: Would this good bateria be useful in our (and Lars'system?) greywater
JDO> treatment system to help breakdown organic matter and perhaps even reduce
JDO> or eliminate any hydrogen sulfide (H2S)? Thanks for your short response.
JDO> Jorg Ostrowski
Nsomonas and Nbacter are your friends ;-).. Re: Hydrogen Sulphide
ommisions - the bacteria which create H2S I beleive are anerobic.. I
notice that when I use the gas from the digester and leave it running for
a second before I burn it, it smells distinctly of H2S, so I can only
guess that the methanogens make both CH4 + H2S.
--
e-mail: mstrates@croftj.net www: http://www.croftj.net/~mstrates
See keyservers for PGP info. Linux! The OS of my Choice!
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned
skyward, for there you have been, and there you long to return."
- Leonardo da Vinci, and below an extract from John Fogerty's song:
Hey, Tonight - Gonna be tonight- Don't you know I'm flyin'- Tonight
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| Message 34 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: Biogas Series
From: "Palchik"
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 22:29:03 +0200
i like to know on bio gas
please send me same information
it's posible to use solids of public waste water
mauricio
-----Original Message-----
From: MS JEAN R SHAFFER
To: aquaponics@townsqr.com
Date: éåí ùìéùé 09 ôáøåàø 1999 22:38
Subject: Re: Biogas Series
>Dear Michael
>
>Please send me your pop bottle digester plans?
>
>Thank you
>Jean
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| Message 35 |
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Subject: Re: advise
From: "Glennert Riedel"
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 12:27:36 PST
Hi Jean,
Yes I would like the info. Also if you have a phone or fax number it
would be welcome because not all products are available in stores on the
island.
Thanks
Glennert
snip
>Hi Glennert
>
>I have a concrete trough already (built 15 or so years ago to hold
>soil) and will be preparing it for fish with an epoxy paint. My
>paint store recommended it because it is food grade which you want
>for fish you will eat. ....
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
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| Message 36 |
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Subject: Re: Solar Heat
From: "Marc S. Nameth"
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 13:49:09 -0700
Copper is easy to work with.
At our local second-hand supply house there are around a
dozen BIG (4' X 8') commercial flat plate collectors for
$100 U.S. each. I can't imagine buying the separate
components for less than that and then I'd still have to
ssemble them. Maybe you have a second-hand place around
your area?
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| Message 37 |
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Subject: RE:air/passive energy
From: Andrew
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 10:01:19 +1030
While we are on the subject of heat and air I thought this might help
some of you in the cooler regions.
In Australia we build large recirculation systems incorporating air to both
mechanically move water and to heat water through heat exchangers.
A constant temperature of around 28 degrees Celsius is obtained within
the purpose built facility. Heating elements are therefore not required.
Food for thought.
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| Message 38 |
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Subject: RE: duckweed
From: Andrew
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 11:04:37 +1030
I'm also interested in the URL
Andrew
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| Message 39 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: RE: identifying crayfish from Florida
From: Andrew
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 11:11:15 +1030
Cherax@deakin.edu.au
Dr Chris Austin.
Regards=20
Andrew
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| Message 40 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: RE: How true.
From: Andrew
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 11:21:20 +1030
Aquaponics will become commercially viable, eventually.
Keep on keeping on.
Dilbert's "Salary Theorem" states that "Engineers and scientists can never
earn as much as business executives and sales people." This theorem can
now be supported by a mathematical equation based on the following two
postulates:
Postulate 1: Knowledge is Power.
Postulate 2: Time is Money.
As every engineer knows: Power = Work / Time
Since:
Knowledge = Power
And
Time = Money
We can say that:
Knowledge = Work/Money.
Solving for Money, we get:
Money = Work / Knowledge.
Thus, as Knowledge approaches zero, Money approaches infinity, regardless
of the amount of work done.
Conclusion:
The less you know, the more you make.
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| Message 41 |
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Subject: RE: Lettuce post-harvest handling
From: "Anthony & Roberta"
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 15:52:02 -0500
Garbage bags are a No! No! Sometimes they contain chemicals which would be
unacceptable for the food - bags specifically made for food has to be used
if selling your end product. Contact your state department (Agriculture?)
and find out what they recommend and what is applicable by law in your
state. Here in NY we had contacted companies recommended through the state
office. If I can find some names etc. I will share them with the list.
With some hydroponics situations the greens are clean enough to just cut &
bag but remember if you won't eat it that way wash it. Then it must be kept
cool or it will wilt. Washing & drying is also a must. I recommend anyone
who is not familiar with Mesclum go to the best supermarket and buy some
mesclun to see how it's sold. The size of the leaf is important. Fork size
is ideal. Any larger keep it for yourself to eat. Also in greenhouses it's
hard to get the 'red' leaf to be as red as something grown outside unless
you supplement the lighting to get the proper rays to the plant to create
the red color. There are some varieties that do turn red quicker under low
light applications. Picking early in the day while the coolness is still
upon them is the best time otherwise wilting will occur.
Mixes are also different depending upon whats available at different times
of the year. Also the time from when you bag to when you get it to your
customer is also important. If cleaned & dried properly mesclun can last
over a week but you'd rather get it to the restaurant or market as soon as
possible. We use to sell 80 lbs. plus a week to the Albany market who
resold it to local restaurants. This was grown in the ground and we had to
hand cut everything. Now there are machines that can cut the same amount in
1 hour that took all day!
Roberta
eastgate@worldnet.att.net
Visit our web site at:
http://www.shaklee.com/link/eastgate_organics
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| Message 42 |
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Subject: RE: Lettuce post-harvest handling
From: "Anthony & Roberta"
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 15:52:14 -0500
My responses are inserted below....
Roberta
eastgate@worldnet.att.net
> -----Original Message-----
> From: aquaponics
> [mailto:aquaponics]On Behalf Of Adriana Gutierrez
> Sent: Friday, February 19, 1999 12:47 PM
> To: aquaponics@townsqr.com
> Subject: Re: Lettuce post-harvest handling
>
>
> Thanks Roberta
> >
> > We used to grow mesclun in soil. We would wash in a huge tub (very cold
> > well water)
> Did you put any chlorine in the water to disinfect it?
No. We disinfected the tub with Basic-G from Shaklee and rinsed it
thoroughly. Then added our well water.We were total organic. Do you have
a bacteria test kit or know that your water needs the chorine? The water
should be tested.
> and spin dry in a manual operated spinner that was a 5 gallon
>
> I know people also use old washing machines for this. How many
> pounds can you get in a washer?
I have heard if this but thought the washer may be too fast and therefore
tear the leaves.
> Adriana
>
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| Message 43 |
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Subject: Re: Lettuce post-harvest handling
From: Dave Miller
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 16:03:19 -0500
Roberta,
Tell us about the lettuce cutting machine. We discussed this as an
invention last year. Would it be practical in a hydroponic or raft
system. So as not to fall in the water - what is the collection hopper
like?
--
Dave
===========================
A "green" home remodeler
A father of 2 cockatiels
An organic farmer
A veggie drummer/keyboardist
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| Message 44 |
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Subject: Re: Lettuce post-harvest handling
From: Michael Strates
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 19:15:16 +1100 (EST)
On Sat, 20 Feb 1999, Dave Miller wrote:
DM> Tell us about the lettuce cutting machine. We discussed this as an
DM> invention last year. Would it be practical in a hydroponic or raft
DM> system. So as not to fall in the water - what is the collection hopper
DM> like?
Hmm.. How about a large vaccuum hose.. lettuce goes through hose, through
the fan - gets chopped and comes out the other end all nice. :-)
--
e-mail: mstrates@croftj.net www: http://www.croftj.net/~mstrates
See keyservers for PGP info. Linux! The OS of my Choice!
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned
skyward, for there you have been, and there you long to return."
- Leonardo da Vinci, and below an extract from John Fogerty's song:
Hey, Tonight - Gonna be tonight- Don't you know I'm flyin'- Tonight
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| Message 45 |
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Subject: RE: Lettuce post-harvest handling
From: "Anthony & Roberta"
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 17:16:34 -0500
There are three machines out on the market.
The first one is made in Italy by Ferrari Tractor. The machine runs on the
ground - It is like a large horizontal bandsaw with a conveyor belt behind
it that directs the lettuce up the belt to two containers on the rear of
the machine. It runs entire on car batteries.
The second machine looks like a sickle bar mower with a Honda gas engine and
travels on the ground on two tracks. Very similar way of directly the
lettuce w/ conveyor belt. Because of it's nature it can be used in
harvesting watercress.
The third machine has a disc with razor blades in it that cut the greens and
behind the blades is an encasement with a vacuum hose that goes to a wooden
box for collection. This machine is the simplest of all three and just move
by hand power on four wheels.
All machines are designed to cover an average size bed of 4'-0" wide. The
last machine could possibly be adapted on a track for table top harvesting.
Or the track can run above the raft system . The mini disc cutter can run
off a small motor and the vacuum can distribute it to a harvesting box. I
believe the first 2 machines are patented.
Anthony
eastgate@worldnet.att.net
Visit our web site at:
http://www.shaklee.com/link/eastgate_organics
> -----Original Message-----
> From: aquaponics
> [mailto:aquaponics]On Behalf Of Dave Miller
> Sent: Saturday, February 20, 1999 4:03 PM
> To: aquaponics@townsqr.com
> Subject: Re: Lettuce post-harvest handling
>
>
> Roberta,
>
> Tell us about the lettuce cutting machine. We discussed this as an
> invention last year. Would it be practical in a hydroponic or raft
> system. So as not to fall in the water - what is the collection hopper
> like?
> --
> Dave
> ===========================
> A "green" home remodeler
> A father of 2 cockatiels
> An organic farmer
> A veggie drummer/keyboardist
>
S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO 65775 417-256-5124
Web page http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
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| Message 46 |
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Subject: RE: Lettuce post-harvest handling
From: "Anthony & Roberta"
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 17:16:39 -0500
chopping is not the result here that you want. You want a leaf that can fit
on your fork.
Roberta
eastgate@worldnet.att.net
Visit our web site at:
http://www.shaklee.com/link/eastgate_organics
> -----Original Message-----
> From: aquaponics
> [mailto:aquaponics]On Behalf Of Michael Strates
> Sent: Sunday, February 21, 1999 3:15 AM
> To: aquaponics@townsqr.com
> Subject: Re: Lettuce post-harvest handling
>
>
> On Sat, 20 Feb 1999, Dave Miller wrote:
>
> DM> Tell us about the lettuce cutting machine. We discussed this as an
> DM> invention last year. Would it be practical in a hydroponic or raft
> DM> system. So as not to fall in the water - what is the
> collection hopper
> DM> like?
>
> Hmm.. How about a large vaccuum hose.. lettuce goes through hose, through
> the fan - gets chopped and comes out the other end all nice. :-)
>
> --
> e-mail: mstrates@croftj.net www: http://www.croftj.net/~mstrates
> See keyservers for PGP info. Linux! The OS of my Choice!
> "Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned
> skyward, for there you have been, and there you long to return."
> - Leonardo da Vinci, and below an extract from John Fogerty's song:
> Hey, Tonight - Gonna be tonight- Don't you know I'm flyin'- Tonight
>
>
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| Message 47 |
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Subject: United States Money Regulation
From: "Marc S. Nameth"
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 15:50:51 -0700
This is a post of interest to U.S.A. members of this group
so I'll keep it short.
I have a copy of U.S. Senator Wayne Allard's Letter to the
Editor regarding the proposed "Know Your Customer" proposal
and his recommendations for citizen impact on it.
>From a local "chatter" group a banker posted the following
digest of the basic proposal:
..snip..
The "Know Your Customer" proposal stems from a law that
requires the bank to report to the government when large
cash transactions take place. This is an anti-drug law.
The proposed regulation requires the bank to determine what
is "normal" for each customer. If the customer does
something out of the ordinary, the bank would have to report
it to the government. If you
come in the bank to get cash so that you can go on summer
vacation, that would be out of the ordinary.
..snip..
e-mail me for Sen. Allards letter if you want it.
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| Message 48 |
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Subject: Re: How true.
From: KLOTTTRUE
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 19:23:33 EST
If that's true'then tell Bill Gates to move over,ken's on the way!
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| Message 49 |
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Subject: Re: frogmodule
From: uweb@megalink.net.mx
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 17:25:07 -600
Hi Lars,
my head is still humming; too much info in one single e-mail! That=92s a great
small project! How did you put all the ideas together? Anyway, you wanted to
hear advice, and here is a question which might lead you to hear your own
advice:
you say that you use potassium hydroxide to make your own soap (ok, you left
the dirty work to your poor partner ). Did you calculate the consumption
or uptake of potassium by the plants? Obviously, whatever substance you use
to make your soap, it has to be removed somehow. That=92s all I can think of
right
now.
Uwe
http://www.megalink.net.mx
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| Message 50 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: ceramic ponds
From: uweb@megalink.net.mx
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 17:49:05 -600
> I've also been thinking about ceramics.Have you heard of Nader Khalili?
He's
>written a book about a 'new' (well, more like 'rediscovered') method for making
ceramic
>houses... (snip)
Hi Lars,
yes, I've heared about Nader Khalili and his ceramic house. Besides this and
others, I'm also subscribed to a discussion list which deals with building with
strawbales, and they mention alot of other alternative stuff, including this.
By the way, that's the place where I learned about the uses of lime, thanks
to Harry L. Francis, who is an international authority in this matter.
Anyway, the ceramic houses might be a good idea as such, but I doubt that this
would work for your tank. First of all, adobe has an extremely low resistance
against tension; the major force in your tank. So you would have to add huge
amounts of steel, and even so I'm not sure that this would be enough. Second,
I can't imagine a completely sealed surface as a result of this burning process.
The result might be good enough for a house, which only ocassionally is exposed
to some rain, but in the case of the tank, little by little the water would
seep through the cracks and weaken your adobe. After a few days or weeks you
would end up with a pile of mud, covered with a thin skin of ceramic. Doesn't
sound very resistant to me!
The best thing to do is to build the concrete tank, reinforced with steel (ask
an engineer), and cover it, preferably with that lime/clay mixture. And if
possible,
pour the whole thing as a monolith, pouring the floor and walls at the same
time. That will avoid you many leakage problems.
Well, that's how I understand this matter, but there is somebody with more
knowledge
on this list... (er, ehem)
Uwe
http://www.megalink.net.mx
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| Message 51 |
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Subject: Re: good bacteria
From: doelle
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 12:39:51 +1100
No, these are specialist bacteria. The good bacteria converting ammonia to
nitrite are Nitrosomonas who must live together with a second group called
Nitrobacter to convert nitrite to nitrate.
In regard to H2S you another specialised group of bacteria who are able to
oxidise H2S back to sulfate. As you know, H2S is produced anaerobically from
sulfate or other sulfur compounds and can only be converted aerobically.
Nature has a magnificent organised system in place, much better than many of
us like to know.
Horst Doelle
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| Message 52 |
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Subject: Re: good bacteria
From: doelle
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 12:56:57 +1100
Lars,
You are on the right track. They are not only your aquaponic friends, but
without them we would have no food on our table.
Horst
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| Message 53 |
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Subject: Re: good bacteria
From: doelle
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 13:01:08 +1100
No, Michael. methanogens are not able to make H2S. It is the Desulfur
bacteria such as Desulfotomaculum etc which anaerobically produce H2S from
higher sulfur compounds such as SO4. This occurs when your pH in the AD is
not correct and slightly on the acidic side. H2S can easily be scrubbed or
oxidised in air.
Best regards
Horst
At 06:00 PM 21/02/99 +1100, you wrote:
>On Sat, 20 Feb 1999, Jorg D. Ostrowski wrote:
>
>JDO> Jim: Would this good bateria be useful in our (and Lars'system?) greywater
>JDO> treatment system to help breakdown organic matter and perhaps even reduce
>JDO> or eliminate any hydrogen sulfide (H2S)? Thanks for your short response.
>JDO> Jorg Ostrowski
>
>Nsomonas and Nbacter are your friends ;-).. Re: Hydrogen Sulphide
>ommisions - the bacteria which create H2S I beleive are anerobic.. I
>notice that when I use the gas from the digester and leave it running for
>a second before I burn it, it smells distinctly of H2S, so I can only
>guess that the methanogens make both CH4 + H2S.
>
>--
>e-mail: mstrates@croftj.net www: http://www.croftj.net/~mstrates
>See keyservers for PGP info. Linux! The OS of my Choice!
>"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned
>skyward, for there you have been, and there you long to return."
>- Leonardo da Vinci, and below an extract from John Fogerty's song:
>Hey, Tonight - Gonna be tonight- Don't you know I'm flyin'- Tonight
>
>
>
Horst W.Doelle, D.Sc., D.Sc. [h.c.]
Chairman, IOBB
Director, MIRCEN-Biotechnology
FAX: +617-38783230
Email: doelle@ozemail.com.au
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| Message 54 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: good bacteria
From: Michael Strates
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 00:36:28 +1100 (EST)
On Sun, 21 Feb 1999, doelle wrote:
d> No, Michael. methanogens are not able to make H2S. It is the
d> Desulfur bacteria such as Desulfotomaculum etc which anaerobically
d> produce H2S from higher sulfur compounds such as SO4. This occurs
d> when your pH in the AD is not correct and slightly on the acidic
d> side. H2S can easily be scrubbed or oxidised in air.
I apologise. You want some kind of bacteria that can turn H2S back into
sulphur compounds, rather than venting away precious sulphur. Hydrogen
sulphide can be scrubbed easily with iron sponge.
--
e-mail: mstrates@croftj.net www: http://www.croftj.net/~mstrates
See keyservers for PGP info. Linux! The OS of my Choice!
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned
skyward, for there you have been, and there you long to return."
- Leonardo da Vinci, and below an extract from John Fogerty's song:
Hey, Tonight - Gonna be tonight- Don't you know I'm flyin'- Tonight
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 55 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: ceramic (or strawbale) ponds
From: "Fred Chambers, FMChambers@CSUPomona.edu"
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 19:15:13 -0800
Uwe and Lars,
What about strawbale ponds? I've built two strawbale buildings with the
Center for Regenerative Studies, and have often wondered about ponds.
Who has done a strawbale pond? As long as you seal it with concrete or
waterproof stucco, I should think it would be cheap, sturdy,
well-insulated, and easy to build.
Forget about ceramics. Let's talk straw!
Fred
At 05:49 PM 2/20/99 -600, uweb@megalink.net.mx wrote:
>> I've also been thinking about ceramics.Have you heard of Nader
Khalili?
>He's
>>written a book about a 'new' (well, more like 'rediscovered') method for
making
>ceramic
>>houses... (snip)
>
>Hi Lars,
>
>yes, I've heared about Nader Khalili and his ceramic house. Besides this and
>others, I'm also subscribed to a discussion list which deals with building
with
>strawbales, and they mention alot of other alternative stuff, including this.
>By the way, that's the place where I learned about the uses of lime, thanks
>to Harry L. Francis, who is an international authority in this matter.
>
>Anyway, the ceramic houses might be a good idea as such, but I doubt that
this
>would work for your tank. First of all, adobe has an extremely low resistance
>against tension; the major force in your tank. So you would have to add huge
>amounts of steel, and even so I'm not sure that this would be enough. Second,
>I can't imagine a completely sealed surface as a result of this burning
process.
>The result might be good enough for a house, which only ocassionally is
exposed
>to some rain, but in the case of the tank, little by little the water would
>seep through the cracks and weaken your adobe. After a few days or weeks you
>would end up with a pile of mud, covered with a thin skin of ceramic. Doesn't
>sound very resistant to me!
>
>The best thing to do is to build the concrete tank, reinforced with steel
(ask
>an engineer), and cover it, preferably with that lime/clay mixture. And if
possible,
>pour the whole thing as a monolith, pouring the floor and walls at the same
>time. That will avoid you many leakage problems.
>
>Well, that's how I understand this matter, but there is somebody with more
knowledge
>on this list... (er, ehem)
>
>Uwe
>http://www.megalink.net.mx
>
>
FMChambers@CSUPomona.edu Agricultural Sciences
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Earning an MS in Sustainable Aquaculture at Cal Poly Pomona, I enjoy the
rewards and challenges of living, learning, working, and playing. The
dedicated, hard working team of students, staff, and faculty is the best
part of being involved with the Center for Regenerative Studies Anyone
*CAN* live a comfortable, modern life, without the big environmental
footprint. http://www.csupomona.edu/~crs/index.html
Did I mention that I'm legally blind? That's right, with a little
accommodation and peers in the National Federation of the Blind, it's
little more than an inconvenience.
http://www.nfb.org
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| Message 56 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: ceramic ponds & other options
From: David Beckham
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 19:48:19 -0800
Hi All,
While we're tossing around alternative tank materials (back to sod yurts,
perhaps) has
anyone considered the material that's used to make concrete boats. . . ?
This would seem
to lend itself well to round tanks, since it is basically an inch or so of
plaster
reinforced with several layers of chicken wire which are tied together. . .
it takes a good
hand (or several) with the plastering to be sure there are no voids. . . but
the shape of
the tank would be ideal for this application--super easy to lay up the wire.
. . maybe a
layer of heavier wire between the layers . . .
I once made a concrete rowboat as a "proof of concept" experiment, and aside
from needing a
winch truck to get it down to the pond it kept water out perfectly well
until rain filled
it up and it sunk, then it kept water in perfectly well until I "bailed it
out" with the
winch truck. . . . Food for thought because it reduces material cost
significantly over
typical poured concrete.
Still waiting to hear from PolyTanks about prices, but I'm enjoying
following the ongoing
discussion :-)
David Beckham
jilli and lars wrote:
> Hi Uwe -
>
> Thank you so much for the priceless information.
>
> I've been looking for an elegant solution the the problem of water
containment
> for a long time, and i hadn't really heard of one until now.
>
> I've also been thinking about ceramics.Have you heard of Nader
Khalili? He's
> written a book about a 'new' (well, more like 'rediscovered') method for
making ceramic
> houses. Basically, the method is similar to adobe, except after you build the
> structure, you place large burners inside, seal it up and fire the whole
structure from
> the inside out for a day or so. The clay/sand adobe material eventually
vitrifies and
> you are left with a ceramic house that won't melt in the rain like
standard adobe does.
> You can even certain glaze surfaces (like integrated sinks and tubs), and
fire your
> plates, mugs and floor tiles at the same time. The book is called "Ceramic
Houses and
> Earth Architecture".
>
> I was thinking that similar methods could be used to create large,
permanent,
> waterproof ponds. Since a pond is open at the top, you would have to cover
it with some
> sort of fire-blanket to keep the heat in during the firing process, but i
believe it
> would work. If the pond is above ground, one would also want to buttress
the walls to
> support the outward pressure of the water, but they wouldn't have to be
fired if they
> were protected from the rain.
>
> Adobe is quite labor intensive, but it's extremely low tech, and
despite the
> seemingly large amount of energy to run the big gas burners for a day, the
embodied
> energy of the final pond would be far, far lower than any other method
which uses
> manufactured materials like cement or plastic. Additionally, in many
regions one can
> rent a tow-to-site adobe block press which would greatly speed up the
process. You just
> put the proper dirt mixture in the hopper and out comes the blocks.
>
> What do you think?
>
> lars fields
>
> uweb@megalink.net.mx wrote:
>
> > >I haven't looked into it yet but maybe clay is hard to get here. I'll
> > >look into it tomorrow. How thick must this layer be ?
> > >What is better epoxy or the lime/clay plaster ?
> >
> > A layer of about 1/8 inch should be enough. Dissolve the lime in
abundant water,
> > and let it sit for a day or two. Then carefully take out just the lime,
screen
> > it for better results, and mix it with your clay (hopefully you get it for a
> > good price). You will have to add quite some water, as the chemical reaction
> > begins. Mix to the consistency of a stiff yogurt, and apply. Cover it
with some
> > (always) wet burlap and plastic foil until hard to the pressure of your
thumb.
> > Now it's time to gently rub wax or oil into it (if you want). You should do
> > this work in the early evening, just after the sun doesn't heat the
walls any
> > more. This would make the plaster even more impermeable to moisture.
> >
> > Regarding the epoxy, my guts tell me not to use it. Why should I, when there
> > is lime? As I said before, it even creates a hostile environment for the
pathogens,
> > so I would go for it. Even if clay is not at hand at your place, it
shouldn't
> > be too hard to get it (Home Depot, etc.), and the cost shouldn't be to high
> > either. But that's just an opinion.
> >
> > Uwe
> > http://www.megalink.net.mx
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| Message 57 |
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Subject: Re: Solar Heat
From: jilli and lars
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 19:12:08 -0800
hi marc -
thats an amazing price - where, exactly, is your 'local' supply house?
lars
Marc S. Nameth wrote:
> Copper is easy to work with.
>
> At our local second-hand supply house there are around a
> dozen BIG (4' X 8') commercial flat plate collectors for
> $100 U.S. each. I can't imagine buying the separate
> components for less than that and then I'd still have to
> ssemble them. Maybe you have a second-hand place around
> your area?
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| Message 58 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: frogmodule
From: jilli and lars
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 19:48:43 -0800
uweb@megalink.net.mx wrote:
> Hi Lars,
>
> you say that you use potassium hydroxide to make your own soap (ok, you left
> the dirty work to your poor partner ). Did you calculate the consumption
> or uptake of potassium by the plants? Obviously, whatever substance you use
> to make your soap, it has to be removed somehow. That's all I can think of
right
> now.
hey uwe -
And you call working with greywater 'clean work'?
Thank you so much for your feedback.
I actually did _not_ calculate the consumption of potassium by the
plants. I
would not even know where to begin to make such a calculaton. Any
suggestions? Since
many of the things i'm growing are perennial ornamentals, I thought that I'd
try to
overplant. That way, if the plants didn't get enough nutrients, the worst
that would
happen would be that their growth would be slowed down. Or I could simply
cut down on
the number of plants. I'm also going to try growing a banana plant, as I
know that
they uptake lots of potassium - otherwise known as vitamin K, right? (i've also
recently learned that a good source of potassium for potassium hydroxide is
banana
peel ash).
My main strategy will be, and has been, to constantly be trying a
variety of
plants. That way, the plants that 'like' my system and can adapt to it will
live and
the plants that don't, I'll remove and place elsewhere. That way, I might be
able to
'reverse engineer' what my system's chemistry by reading about what types of
conditions are liked by the plants that thrive. Hmm...kind of a convoluted
sentence,
so let me give an example: Lets say I have a system in which taro does well, but
other plants don't seem to. If I then read somewhere that taro can do well in
brackish water, i might start to suspect that my system has a high sodium
level. Not
the best example, i guess, but you get the picture.
As the plants teach me more i'm sure i'll have better examples.
I've started to build a small list of plants that do well in high sodium
environments, but none of them seem to actually _remove_ the stuff. I'm sure
sodium
will collect in my system (who doesn't pee in the shower? ;-) ), so i'd
like to
find something that would remove it. Any suggestions? Someone (sorry i
forgot who)
recommended tamarisk, but that seems to simply concentrate salt around it's
roots
rather than absorb it, which, in a hydroponic system, would have very little
effect,
as any collected salt would wash away with every pump cycle, right? That was my
thinking anyway.
By the way, i'll also be adding worm compost tea to help balance out the
nutrient levels.
thanks again,
lars
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| Message 59 |
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Subject: Re: Solar Heat
From: "Jorg D. Ostrowski"
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 21:19:34 -0700 (MST)
You said:"thats an amazing price - where, exactly, is your 'local' supply
house?"
_________________________________________________________________________
Lars & Marc: We have bought many solar hot air and hot water collectors
for $25 each and put them onto real world projects. Jorg Ostrowski
________________________________________________________________________
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| Message 60 |
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Subject: Re: good bacteria
From: "Jorg D. Ostrowski"
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 21:34:24 -0700 (MST)
Gentle: I am now trying some beneficial micro-organism from FENIC Co.,
effective micro-oganism from EM Technologies, and Microbe-Lift from
Ecological Laboratories. I am having some successes, some unexplained
failures. I am even trying compost tea, which has some promise. I need
some natural biological microbes or aerobes that can multiple once
inocculated into any of the 3 indoor greywater storage tanks. I need to
keep it SIMPLE. I want to avoid moving parts, mechanical devices and
energy consumption. All of our water & toilet systems are using about 1200
kWh/y of our total annual consumption of 1700 kWh. I have cut back the
recirculation pump from 425 to 5 kwh by putting it on a timer from 24
hours continuous operation. I need to get the energy consumption rate
down. That is why I need some form of bacteria that can turn anaerobes
into aerobes, without doing harm to marine life in the marshes and fish tank
or the vegetables in the hydroponics. I am still searching. Jorg ostrowski
+___________________________________________________________________________
On Mon, 22 Feb 1999, Michael Strates wrote:
>
> On Sun, 21 Feb 1999, doelle wrote:
>
> d> No, Michael. methanogens are not able to make H2S. It is the
> d> Desulfur bacteria such as Desulfotomaculum etc which anaerobically
> d> produce H2S from higher sulfur compounds such as SO4. This occurs
> d> when your pH in the AD is not correct and slightly on the acidic
> d> side. H2S can easily be scrubbed or oxidised in air.
>
> I apologise. You want some kind of bacteria that can turn H2S back into
> sulphur compounds, rather than venting away precious sulphur. Hydrogen
> sulphide can be scrubbed easily with iron sponge.
>
> --
> e-mail: mstrates@croftj.net www: http://www.croftj.net/~mstrates
> See keyservers for PGP info. Linux! The OS of my Choice!
> "Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned
> skyward, for there you have been, and there you long to return."
> - Leonardo da Vinci, and below an extract from John Fogerty's song:
> Hey, Tonight - Gonna be tonight- Don't you know I'm flyin'- Tonight
>
>
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| Message 61 |
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Subject: Re: recycling/wick system
From: "Susanne Machler"
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 21:29:49 PST
Th site www,hydroponicsonline.com has a lot of pictures using such a
system as you wanted to see, much fun.... I ust tod alll relatives and
friends of all the various plastic continer, tubes pipes stc tht we
could recycle and the came in in a steady trickle...
Any one know of a supplier of Pacu, who is licensed to export, I am
willing to try this species here in the Caribbean.
Gordon??
Take care guys,
Sue.
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 08:44:41 -0700
To: aquaponics@townsqr.com
From: Jose Pelleya
Subject: recycling/wick system
Reply-To: aquaponics@townsqr.com
Joel:
Answer online, not off, we (or at least I) am interested as well.
Have you worked with plastic 2-liter bottles in any way. I am very
interested in designs which use household plastic bottles which
otherwise
end up in the town landfill, since recycled plastic is a semi-farce
promoted by the plastic industry to make us all feel good. I've heard of
warehouses full of "recycled" plastic which is never used since "virgin"
plastic is better and cheaper than recycled. Until we run out of oil or
landfill space (or warehouse space) recycled plastic will be just a
dream,
specially in the US. Places like Germany are more serious, given their
limited land area. There IS a mandate in the governmnet to use certain
percentage of recycled goods in government-purchased stuff, but
privately,
most of the US doesn't care about recycling, whether it's food wastes,
plastic, newspapers, etc. It's more and more every day, thanks to the
kids
(our conscience) and certain people who see the future as bleak without
recycling efforts, but most are just doing their own recycling, like
people
in this group. The vast majority just consume and throw away.
Off the soapbox.
Jose
Jose
At 11:50 PM 2/18/99 -0500, you wrote:
>Joel,
>
>I am intrigued with your confined tomatoes, I assume these are indoors,
>maybe in a greenhouse. What is your light source? How high do they
>get? Are you able to grow off season? How do they pollinate?
>
>You can answer offline.
>--
>Dave
>_______________________________________
>=AB=A4=BB=A5=AB=A4=BB=A7=AB=A4=BB=A5=AB=A4=BB=A7=AB=A4=BB=A5=AB=A4=BB=A7=AB=
=A4=BB=A7=AB=A4=BB=A5=AB=A4=BB=A7=AB=A4=BB
>=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=
=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF
>A "green" home remodeler
>A father of 2 cockatiels
>An organic farmer
>A veggie drummer/keyboardist
>
Thought for the day:
- "The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education."
Albert Einstein
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
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| Message 62 |
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Subject: Re: Solar Heat
From: "Marc S. Nameth"
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 22:33:36 -0700
Rayback Plumbing in Boulder, CO
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| Message 63 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: tamarisk ,and out there....
From: William Evans
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 21:48:27 -0800
Sodium salts are taken up by the foliage in a big way as well..the
accumulated "litter" in the grove (there never is just 1))) eventually
salts up the surface soil enough,,dont forget sucking the swamp dry,,,,
so that the tamarisk makes MANY more while runnin out the competition.
first I like the vert grow mesclun lettuce system
rig up a conveyor below , and along this vert grow ro
then take your surgical sterile sharp powered """electric hedge
clippers "(clean w/ organic extra virgin olive oil)
attach these "clippers" ;either end suspended on a track
no vaccuums just gravity and a long fabric conveyor,,,buckets and
grading stations necessary downstream, as it were.
billevans.
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| Message 64 |
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Subject: Re: recycling/wick system
From: Dave Miller
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 00:57:54 -0500
Susan,
Thanks for the hydroponics website. Well done too.
--
Dave
S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO 65775 417-256-5124
Web page http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
|
