Aquaponics Digest - Sun 03/07/99
Message 1: Re: NFT Troughs
from Adriana Gutierrez
Message 2: Re: Chilling tilapia at harvest
from "Sam Levy"
Message 3: Re: Chilling tilapia at harvest
from KLOTTTRUE
Message 4: Re: The easy Fillet
from "Lloyd R. Prentice"
Message 5: Re: Specs
from jilli and lars
Message 6: Re: NFT Troughs
from "Dale Robinson"
Message 7: Re: Specs
from "Ted Ground"
Message 8:
from Jon Hays
Message 9: Fish Processing
from sbonney@iquest.net
Message 10: Re: The easy Fillet
from PDOSSJR
Message 11: RE: There's something in the Water!
from Paul V
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 1 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: NFT Troughs
From: Adriana Gutierrez
Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 08:37:39 -0500
Brian,
I use aluminum roof pans for NFT troughs. They are 3" deep, 1
foot wide and can be made as long as you want them. Here in
Florida you can get them from any aluminum supplier, the guys who
do gutters. Just ask that they be boxed on both ends and be sure
to request the heaviest gauge available. If you check out
www.aquaticeco.com, they have exactly this in their hydroponic
section but for a much higher price than buying it directly..
Adriana
> Does anyone use NFT troughs in their lettuce production? If so, do you
> have any links to these products?
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 2 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: Chilling tilapia at harvest
From: "Sam Levy"
Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 07:54:41 PST
Hi Ken,
I haven't had fresh caught fish in a long time and certainly wont
dispute your taste preferences. I also know of cases where farming the
fish improved the flavor (grey mullet comes to mind--people I've met who
had wild caught thought it tasted like "kerosene" and the farmed ones
quite tasty).
I would like to know how you preserve the fillets and will your
technique work for whole, cleaned fish?
Sam
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 3 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: Chilling tilapia at harvest
From: KLOTTTRUE
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 11:43:24 EST
Hi Sam,the point I was trying to make is,I wonder If the method of Killing
causes any off flavor,since it does not seem to in wild fish. Yes my method
for preserving will work on whole fish.It will even stop the days on ice
effect. Just remember air ,heat and light cause deterioration, and make sure
your freezer temp is at least down to -10% F to 0% If you have a light in your
freezer,take it out . I posted the directions on the list,If they are not
there,let me know and I will send them to you. Also if you have a Flash Freeze
feature,use it,all it does is keep the compressor from cycling on and off,and
will pull the heat out faster,when the bricks are frozen solid,turn off the
Flash freeze,the fuller you keep your freezer the cheaper it is to operate.
Thanks Ken
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 4 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: The easy Fillet
From: "Lloyd R. Prentice"
Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 12:17:26 -0500
KLOTTTRUE wrote:
>
> O.K. here we go,bear with me,these directions are for a right handed person,if
> you're a southpaw just reverse them. First thing you need is a flexible fillet
> knife,a six inch Rapala or Bentley
I used exactly this method to fillet fish throughout the many years that
I was passionately involved in competitive spearfishing off the
California coast. It worked on everything from a 1 lb. blue rock fish to
a 30 lb. ling cod. Cabezones (a type of sculpin) in the 8-10 lb. class
were a bit tricky because of the high head-to-body-mass ratio. But they
were really delicious. With slight modification, Ken's method worked
beautifully on a 42 lb. halibut. It may work on fish even smaller than 1
lb., but I never shot a fish less than 12-inches long -- tried not to
shot anything less than 14-inches. I was fast with a fileting knife, but
not nearly as fast as some of the commercial fisherman I watched on the
piers of Monterey, Bodega Bay, Ft. Bragg, and elsewhere. Using this
method, they could filet a fish faster than I can type this sentence.
And I touchtype pretty fast.
We used to string fish off our weight belts using a stringer fashioned
so: Start with a 1-inch brass ring. Securely tie one end of a 2 to
2.5-foot length of green woven nylon cord to the ring. Run the other end
of the cord through a hole drilled through the center of a 4-inch length
of 1/4-inch stainless steel rod. The rod is bluntly sharpened at both
ends. Knot the end of the cord so the rod won't slide off.
We would clip the ring to a snap fastened just to the left of the buckle
on our weight belts, wrap the cord around behind us, and wrap it a time
or two around the lead weight to the immediate right of the buckle.
Lefties would do just the opposite.
We killed a fish as soon as we got hour hands on it by unwrapping the
rod end of the stringer from the weight, running the stainless steel rod
through one eye, scraping along the bony structure at the top of the eye
socket, and out the other eye, pulling the rod all the way through. We'd
pull the fish back along the cord until it was behind us, then rewrap
the stringer to the weight. We wore 3/16-inch foam neoprene wet suits,
so didn't have to worry about sharp spines sticking us in tender places.
As I aged I wondered more about the cruelty of our harvesting and
stringing methods. I concluded the following (perhaps
self-justification: 1) all of the fish we speared were prey to other
fish, seals, and sea lions -- which generally used sharp teeth to
capture and help swallow their prey. Or, they used their own teeth to
capture their own prey. 2) I have every reason to believe that our
stringing technique killed the fish almost instantly. They simply did
not quiver from the moment we inserted the rod. When I first heard about
this method I was deeply squeamish, but was quickly convinced that it
was far more humane than the gill stringing method we'd used previously.
At the time I was diving, the California Department of Fish and Game
biologists were keeping careful track of who was fishing what out of
California waters. The ratio of fish taken by spear to hook was almost
miniscule. Moveover, divers took fish from zones that were generally not
accessable to line fishermen. In spearfishing competitions, in our area,
the minimum size you could take was 14 inches; maximum number of fish
per species was eight. Competitions were scored as a point per pound and
a point per fish. So, to win, you had to be a good athlete and a very
versatile fisherman -- Into the holes around the wash rocks right off
shore for black rock fish; into the kelp beds for blue and olive rock
fish; off to the 20 to 60-foot rockpiles and reefs for bottom-dwelling,
hole-loving ling cod and cabezons; into the 10-foot eel grass for
greenlings and perch. We would swim and paddle on our paddle boards two
or three miles in a four-hour competition. Regional and national
competitions were five and six hours. Scouting, with much deception and
secrecy, and strategy, which depended upon location and water
conditions, was everything. It wasn't unusual for us to go into a
competition with five-foot surf, two foot swells, and two-feet of
visibility. On such days you were lucky to bring in one fish after four
hours of very hard diving. Water temperature off the Central/Northern
California coast is often in the '40s F. Competition areas were
typically a mile or two of coast line, out to sea as far as you want to
go. You could only enter or leave the water from the competition staging
areaa staging area -- 100-feet or so of beach.
On a good day, in a hundred-diver competition among the best
spearfishermen on the coast, the top four or five divers might bring in
30 to 40 pounds each; next four or five somewhere between 10 and 20
pounds; lower fifty percent nothing. Average was about two to three
pounds per diver. When I was training, I never shot more fish than I
could eat or give to appreciative friends and neighbors. All fish taken
in competition were given to much appreciative charitable organizations;
We never used scuba equipment to spear fish; only snorkle. We fished
anywhere from the surge of wash rocks right off shore out to 70 feet.
I once had a sea otter try to steal fish from my belt stringer. It was
at the end of a very long day. My paddle board was anchored to the top
of rock pinnacle out in the kelp beds off a Carmel beach. The top of the
pinnacle was about 80 feet down. The anchor hung up when I tried to pull
it. So, reluctantly, I hyperventilated deeply and started down to unhook
the anchor. I was just reaching for the anchor when something hit me
hard on the shoulder blade. Obviously startled, I spun head-over-fins,
my mask flooded, and I made my way back up through the kelp to the
surface. It took awhile for my heart to calm down, but I went back down,
unhooked my anchor, and headed in. When I examined my wetsuit, I found
three neatly incised clawmarks about three inches long.
During the last few years of my California spearfishing career I seldom
speared fish. If a saw nice fish I'd track it with my speargun, enjoy
the way it circled around me, but not pull the trigger.
Ken's fileting method is indeed as fast and easy as he suggests; but I
don't think I could have described it with anywhere near the clarity and
concision that Ken has.
Many thanks, Ken, for bringing back the memories.
Lloyd R. Prentice
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 5 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: Specs
From: jilli and lars
Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 11:07:16 -0800
hey ken -
good one the other day - "austrailian for beer" :-) I read it at
night
and my laugh woke my wife.
I've always been interested in ancient technology myself. Simple
solutions
to important problems, especially hydraulics. Some of the ancient techniques for
moving and pumping water are just fantastic.
I'd like to second your notion of using only natural feeds. I think
the US
RDA is a bit abbreviated - I think there's probably lots of other trace
chemicals/nutrients that people need for full nutrition. So keeping the food
chain
as "wide" as possible seems smart and I think your fish will taste better.
But you
know this already as you've eaten lots of wild-caught fish. Recreating the
natural
environment as much as possible just makes sense. I think your fish will be
healthier as well. For example, the other day I read in an aquarium manual how
keeping logs, leaves and other slowly decaying plant matter in the water
releases
various organic acids into the water which strengthens a fish's scales and skin
and helps prevent certain parasites and diseases. It's nice to have your
instincts
somewhat verified.
In terms of aquaponics being 'ruined' - Its inevitable. People ruin
everything. But that doesn't ruin the technique itself, nor the possiblity of
doing it right. The quality versus quantity issue. Nothing we can due to
stop the
ADM bozos from building super-mega-aquaponic fish farms with the fish stocked
gill-to-gill and eating pelletized miracle gro, but we'll know better, and
we can
teach our kids better. At least some americans are starting to pay more
attention
to quality of food. Maybe this country is finally starting to come of age....
later,
lars
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 6 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: NFT Troughs
From: "Dale Robinson"
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 14:05:47 -0600
There are some links in my web site.
The design of your system will make a big difference as to the production
you can get from it.
With lettuce, You have a choice between beds and rows(NFT troughs). In a
trough , you usually plant the seeds far enough apart so that they can grow
the plants out to maturity. With a bed you can sow the seeds in pretty
thick and harvist the young leaves about every 2-3 weeks.
Hope this helps.
Best regards
Dale Robinson
prof-robinson@worldnet.att.net
http://home.att.net/~prof-robinson/page7.html
>Hi Everyone.
>
>Does anyone use NFT troughs in their lettuce production? If so, do you
>have any links to these products?
>
>Brian
>
>
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 7 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: Specs
From: "Ted Ground"
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 15:57:10 -0600
>Nothing we can due to stop the
> ADM bozos from building super-mega-aquaponic fish farms with the fish
stocked
> gill-to-gill and eating pelletized miracle gro, but we'll know better,
and we can
> teach our kids better. At least some americans are starting to pay more
attention
> to quality of food. Maybe this country is finally starting to come of
age....
Maybe I should learn to "turn my hearing aid off" as my Grandma used to
say..but
why would anyone other than E.F. Schumacher or Myopic Monkey Wrench Gang
EcoWarriers want to stop ADM, or anyone else for that matter, from building
aquaponic fish farms? Why not cancel the subscription to Mother Jones
magazine, stop playing the imaginary role of victim, and together let's
start teaching old dogs like ADM some new tricks! Captains of Industry
Unite! Hands at the Helm, Charting the Course into the Future! The old
dogs have already started learning new tricks and, believe me, they could
now teach us mom and pop operations some new tricks. One Chinese Communist
leader once said "I dont care what color the cat is as long as it catches
the mouse." Hey that reminds me, did you hear that the Chinese Prime
Minister is in the market for fertilizer? He's Dung Shop Ping. Get it?
I wish I could stock fish "gill-to-gill" up to market size, if that is WHAT
THE FISH COULD DO, like bees or bat colonies DO, but you can't do that and
expect to grow quality Tilapia that way. I suspect ADM knows this, as most
fish farmers do. Many species of fish in the wild grow and move about in
their 3D environment "gill to gill" as you say. We call them schools of
fish. As they grow bigger, they spread out just enough to keep from ramming
each other while executing beautiful underwater ballets, but they still
school, using pressure sensory nerves along their lateral lines to maintain
very close optimal distances between each fish. It would be unnatural for
them not to school. Many species of Tilapia start out as fry inside the
mouth of the parent fish- packed in there "gill to gill". Nature has been
doing this for eons. I suspect Mother Nature never consulted ADM.
And I wish I had some pelletized miracle grow. If you know where I can get
some, please let me know. Mine is only made of soybeans, corn, wheat,etc.,
you know, the same basic stuff that ADM feeds their fish, and what
thousands of aquarium hobbyists feed their fish (like the wicked bozo Mr.
Rogers) and what big and small fish farms around the world feed their fish.
Let me see how badly I can misinterpreted your train of thought here with
some absurd philosophical verse:
Big and Successful is Bozo, Wicked and Un-Natural
ADM Aquaponics is Big and Successful
Therefore ADM Aquaponics is Bozo, Wicked and Un-Natural
Mom&Pop Aquaponics is Not Big and Struggling
Not Big and Struggling is Good, Natural, Noble,and True.
Therefore Mom&Pop Aquaponics is Good, Natural, Noble, and True
Mom&Pop and ADM may use similar Aquacultural Practices,
But Big is still Bad and Not Big is still Good.
We will Teach Our Children Well.
We will Teach Our Children Big is Bozo, Wicked and Un-Natural
We will Teach Them Not Big is Good, Natural, Noble, and True.
Therefore this country will finally start to come of the (New) Age.
Reminds me of the Ray Charles Diety Theorem:
God is Love
Love is Blind
Ray Charles is Blind
Therefore Ray Charles is God.
Let's not shoot the old dog, let's teach him some new tricks!
Ted
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 8 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject:
From: Jon Hays
Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 16:59:03 -0700
Let me see how badly I can misinterpreted your train of thought here with
some absurd philosophical verse:
Big and Successful is Bozo, Wicked and Un-Natural
ADM Aquaponics is Big and Successful
Therefore ADM Aquaponics is Bozo, Wicked and Un-Natural
Mom&Pop Aquaponics is Not Big and Struggling
Not Big and Struggling is Good, Natural, Noble,and True.
Therefore Mom&Pop Aquaponics is Good, Natural, Noble, and True
Mom&Pop and ADM may use similar Aquacultural Practices,
But Big is still Bad and Not Big is still Good.
We will Teach Our Children Well.
We will Teach Our Children Big is Bozo, Wicked and Un-Natural
We will Teach Them Not Big is Good, Natural, Noble, and True.
Therefore this country will finally start to come of the (New) Age.
Reminds me of the Ray Charles Diety Theorem:
God is Love
Love is Blind
Ray Charles is Blind
Therefore Ray Charles is God.
Ted: I hate to mention politics on such hollowed net, but I just read in
the last few days that ADM is the largest contributor to the Clinton's.
John Hays
John Hays
1903 Pebble Hill Rd.
Carlsbad, NM 88220
1-505-887-0102
ICQ# 765699
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 9 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Fish Processing
From: sbonney@iquest.net
Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 22:32:26 -0500
In order to build a successful fish production and marketing system that
captures the greatest value, processing facilities of appropriate scale
must be developed. Are there any ideas, including references, out there for
small scale processing both on-farm and off?
Steve
Steve Bonney, President
Sustainable Earth
a 501(c)3 not-for-profit dedicated to economic development through
sustainable agriculture
100 Georgton Ct., W. Lafayette IN 47906
tel (765)463-9366; fax (765)497-0164; email sbonney@iquest.net
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 10 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: The easy Fillet
From: PDOSSJR
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 22:41:46 EST
I have also used this method of fish cleaning for a long time. It does work
well. If you really want to do some serious fish cleaning substitute an
electric knife for that Rapala.
Paul
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 11 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: RE: There's something in the Water!
From: Paul V
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 20:42:39 -0500
> You can gargle with half and half 3%
> hydrogen peroxide and warm water if
> you think it is fairly localized.
How effective would gargling and swishing
with a couple shots of vodka be?
Would these disinfecting methods be most
effective right after infection?
Paul
S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO 65775 417-256-5124
Web page http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
|
