Aquaponics Digest - Tue 06/01/99
Message 1: Re: engine that runs on no fuel - hooey
from Dave Miller
Message 2: Re: Eat Eliminate and Swim in Circles
from KLOTTTRUE
Message 3: Re: Acoustic Engine 10% more efficient than turbines.
from "Wendy Nagurny"
Message 4: Re: Acoustic Engine 10% more efficient than turbines.
from "Jorg D. Ostrowski"
Message 5: Re: Acoustic Engine 10% more efficient than turbines.
from Dave Miller
Message 6: RV: [Fwd: Virus warning] (fwd)
from "Alejandro Gallardo"
Message 7: Technology Transfer Thermoacoustic Engines and Refrigerators
from "Mike Senger"
Message 8: Re: engine that runs on no fuel - hooey
from Carolyn Hoagland
Message 9: Re: subscription info & IBS Page
from S & S Aqua Farm
Message 10: Re: engine that runs on no fuel - hooey
from "Marc S. Nameth"
Message 11: Re: Technology Transfer Thermoacoustic Engines and Refrigerators
from "Mike Senger"
Message 12: Ron was watching cooking shows again
from "Ronald W. Brooks"
Message 13: Re: Ron was watching cooking shows again
from BruceStay
Message 14: RE: Ron was watching cooking shows again
from "Ronald W. Brooks"
Message 15: Re: Ron was watching cooking shows again
from BruceStay
Message 16: RE: Ron was watching cooking shows again
from "Ronald W. Brooks"
Message 17: Re: Acoustic Engine 10% more efficient than turbines.
from Tvoivozhd
Message 18: stirling engines
from "Jorg D. Ostrowski"
Message 19: Re: [Fwd: Virus warning] (fwd)
from "Wendy Nagurny"
Message 20: Re: stirling engines
from Tvoivozhd
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| Message 1 |
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Subject: Re: engine that runs on no fuel - hooey
From: Dave Miller
Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 02:21:43 -0400
Carolyn,
It may be time for a paradigm shift in the laws of physics. I too have
heard about engines that run on water, etc. While I would not buy into a
get rich scheme or an MLM, I do believe that there is technology we know
little about, that may be currently withheld, undermined or that may
even be from another planet or space and dimension. There is a gentleman
here in NJ who has developed an incinerator that basically vaporizes
hazardous wastes and leaves a safe ash behind. The concept is excellent
but he cannot get "safe" investors, only those big companies whom wish
to purchase his patent outright, than squash the technology. (A money
grubbing thing).
We are our own current reality and when a product, device, service or
new way of thinking comes along, why not investigate it and seperate the
kooks from the prophets?
Who can deny that we even HAVE an engine? And yet that concept we depend
upon so dearly is less than 150 years old. We were without it and now we
require it. Time for another shift in thinking. We recently discovered
a new solar system, we also reinvented the wheel with better traction.
And so using acoustic vibrations might not be so far off. More important
that we are open and explore the possibilities - and report our findings
to one another.
--
Dave
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| Message 2 |
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Subject: Re: Eat Eliminate and Swim in Circles
From: KLOTTTRUE
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 08:37:09 EDT
In a message dated 6/1/99 12:31:46 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
choagland@connectec.com writes:
<<
I have no idea what any of this has to do with fish culture, but it is an
interesting
topic anyway.
Carolyn Hoagland
>>
Carolyn,what this has to do with fish culture is,most of the people on this
this list are constantly searching for more economical means to operate their
farms in an enviromentally friendly manner, just because we raise fish,does
not mean we have to act like them !
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| Message 3 |
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Subject: Re: Acoustic Engine 10% more efficient than turbines.
From: "Wendy Nagurny"
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 08:41:56 -0400
Andrew,
There is a whole lot of pure bunk science on the web these days. I have
seen many proposals of "energy out of nothing" engines. Many of them are
selling these engines, or stock in the company or seeking research funding.
It is all hoax. Read the descriptions carefully. If it is not explained
very well, or goes on for page after page of drivel, there is usually a
reason.
Wendy
>How does an engine that runs on no fuel and is perpetual, produces 240 volt
>50 Hz and the by-product is oxygen sound as an efficient product?
>
>An Australian company has just gone public float on the share market
>recently and is having their plant built in Germany to begin production
>within the year.
>
>It's called I think the "linear energy" engine.
>
>Andrew
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Subject: Re: Acoustic Engine 10% more efficient than turbines.
From: "Jorg D. Ostrowski"
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 07:12:12 -0600 (MDT)
You said:"
An Australian company has just gone public float on the share market
recently and is having their plant built in Germany to begin production
within the year. It's called I think the "linear energy" engine."
_____________________________________________________________________
Andrew or anyone else: Where can I find more info on this device?
Jorg Ostrowski
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| Message 5 |
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Subject: Re: Acoustic Engine 10% more efficient than turbines.
From: Dave Miller
Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 09:26:10 -0400
Jorg,
Haven't researched this yet so I might bite my tongue. Engines that run
on water AND more efficients engines, e-mail Peter Michel.
PMichel431
When you levitate llike a sufi, let us all know. (I shouldn't be saying
that, I too am just plain skeptical but he is the source for now).
--
Dave
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Subject: RV: [Fwd: Virus warning] (fwd)
From: "Alejandro Gallardo"
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 09:22:51 -0600
>---------- Forwarded message ----------
>Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 09:28:21 +0000
>From: bravocorreag@marlab.ac.uk
>To: cg2@stir.ac.uk
>Cc: gabc@abdn.ac.uk
>Subject: [Fwd: Virus warning]
>
>WARNING!!
>
>Ian Bricknell wrote:
>>
>> Subject: be careful
>>
>> >Fwd: Fwd: There is a New Virus
>> > : For your Info. Someone is sending out a very desirable screen-saver,
>> > : the Budweiser "BUDDYLST.ZIP". If you download it, you will lose
>> > : everything!!! Your hard drive will crash and someone from the
>> > : Internet will get your screen name and password!
>>
>> DO NOT DOWNLOAD THIS UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES!!! IT JUST WENT INTO
>> circulation yesterday, as far as we know.
>>
>> Please distribute this message. This information was announced yesterday
>> morning from Microsoft. Please share it with everyone that might access
>> the Internet.
>>
>> Once again, pass this along to EVERYONE in your address book so that
>> this
>> may be stopped. AOL has said that this is a very dangerous virus and
>> that
>> there is NO remedy for it at this time.
>>
>> Dr Ian Bricknell
>> Senior Scientist
>> Immuno-diagnostics team
>> Aquaculture and Animal Health,
>> FRS Marine Laboratory,
>> PO Box 101, Victoria Road,
>> Torry,
>> Aberdeen.
>> AB11 9DB
>> UK.
>> e-mail
>> bricknellir@marlab.ac.uk
>> Tel 01224 295618
>> fax 01224 295620
>
>
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Subject: Technology Transfer Thermoacoustic Engines and Refrigerators
From: "Mike Senger"
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 08:50:02 -0700
THERMOACOUSTICS ENGINES AND REFRIGERATORS
Glassblowers have known for several hundred years that =
differences in temperature can create sound. It has only been during the =
last decade that the reverse process=97the use of sound to produce =
cooling=97has been observed and controlled. These efforts expanded =
rapidly in the late 1980s when it became apparent that =
chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs) caused serious damage to the earth=92s =
stratospheric ozone layer. This realization has led to severe problems =
for the refrigeration industry since the substitute refrigerants (HFCs =
and HCFCs) have now raised concerns that include toxicity to humans, =
contributions to global warming, and generation of acid rain as well as =
practical problems associated with retrofit compatibility and =
lubrication. Thermoacoustic coolers have the advantage in that they use =
only inert gases as the thermodynamic working fluid. These gases are =
nontoxic, odorless, and inflammable. They are harmless to the =
stratospheric ozone layer, have no global warming potential, and are =
cheap, uncontrolled, and readily available. Thermoacoustic engines have =
only one moving part, which does not require maintenance or lubrication.
ARL staff has expertise in the development and testing of =
both thermoacoustic refrigerators (heat pumps) and thermoacoustic sound =
sources (prime movers). The Space ThermoAcoustic Refrigerator (STAR) was =
flown on the space shuttle Discovery (STS-42) in January 1992. That =
design has produced a maximum single-stage temperature difference of =
118=B0C=97sufficient to turn steam into ice! We have also built a more =
powerful thermoacoustic chiller that was used to provide cooling for two =
racks of radar electronics on board the USS Deyo (DD-989) in March 1995. =
The Shipboard Electronics Thermoacoustic Chiller (SETAC) produced 420 =
watts of useful cooling power. A follow-on three-ton (10-kW thermal) =
air-conditioning unit for shipboard applications is under development at =
ARL.
=20
In addition to our ability to produce the prototype =
thermoacoustic systems, ARL=92s close association with Penn State=92s =
Graduate Program in Acoustics puts ARL in a unique position to educate =
the scientists and engineers who can support industrial production and =
provide new thermoacoustic designs for a variety of other refrigeration =
and power-generation applications.
=20
POTENTIAL APPLICATIONS
=20
a.. Residential and commercial food refrigerator/freezers=20
b.. Electronics or computer thermal control=20
c.. Thermal or solar electrical generation=20
FACILITIES
=20
a.. Gas mixture analysis=20
b.. Pressure testing=20
c.. Rapid prototyping machines=20
d.. Primary standard transducer calibration=20
RESIDENT EXPERTISE AND TECHNOLOGIES
=20
a.. Compact heat exchanger analysis, design, and testing=20
b.. Custom transducer signal-conditioning electronics=20
c.. DELTAE thermoacoustic computer design codes=20
d.. Precision acoustic power flow measurement=20
e.. Heat flow calibration and measurement=20
f.. Shock-suppressing resonator design=20
g.. Analog and digital control systems=20
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| Message 8 |
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Subject: Re: engine that runs on no fuel - hooey
From: Carolyn Hoagland
Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 11:08:58 -0500
Dave,
I am very open to the idea of an engine / machine that operates on sound
waves, run on water, tap into some kind of as yet unknown magnetic field
etc.... I stand by my statement that if energy / work is coming out,
"something" is going in or being used up or transformed in the process.
Wouldn't it be just too cool if that "something" were widely available and
nearly free?
I would also believe that something could run on nothing if I saw it with my
own eyes, and people knowledgeable about physics said, 'yep it runs - and we
don't know why....'
Carolyn
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Subject: Re: subscription info & IBS Page
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 11:12:30 -0500
At 06:03 PM 5/30/99 PDT, you (Uwe) wrote:
>Hi folks,
>
>a guy from another list is asking for subscription info for this and the
hydroponics list. Due to the crash I mentioned in my previous post, I don't
have this info anymore, and want to ask you to send it to me. Thanks alot!
>
>Uwe
Here's the subscribe info for our list, followed by what I can find on the
hydro list. I'm also sending the web and contact address for the IBS list
you mentioned over the week-end. (Too many grandbabies to stay caught up!!! :)
AQUAPONICS LIST INFO:
To subscribe, send an e-mail to:
aquaponics
in the body (or message area) type:
subscribe
For more information, or if you have any questions, please contact the list
providers, Tom and Paula Speraneo, at S&S Aqua Farm
------------------------------------------------------------------
HYDROPONICS LIST INFO:
you can send
mail to with the following command in the
body of your email message:
subscribe hydrolist
Questions or problems can be directed to:
Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 09:08:22 +0200
----------forwarde
From: Jacky Foo
Sunday, May 09, 1999 5:05 PM, I wrote:
>I have created a new version of the IBS Network homepage
>http://www.ias.unu.edu/proceedings/icibs/resource/ibsnet/index.htm
>and look forward to your comments.
sorry to inform you that I had to temporarily move this site to:
http://home2.swipnet.se/~w-25860/jacky/ibs
because of set-up/permission problems at IAS. Until this is solved, the
IBSnet homepage and the IBS Resource Site will remain at my private
homepage space and it will allow me to continue to update on them.I know
all these moving around should not be done but under the circumstances, it
had to otherwise nothing gets done.
There are new materials in the IBS Resource Site and the IBSnet homepage.
So please take this opportunity to surf the site. A SEARCH option is
included now and this will usually take a few days before it is made
operational by the service. My guess is that it should be operational by
the end of the week.
regards
Jacky Fo
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Subject: Re: engine that runs on no fuel - hooey
From: "Marc S. Nameth"
Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 12:08:57 -0700
Temperature gradient technology is practical and useful for
heating purposes in a greenhouse or aquaponics facility.
There are many variations.
One system that is quite popular is a "ground loop" heat
pump system that is based on water wells. There is enough
savings from using this technology that it is cost effective
to spend thousands of dollars to drill these wells and set
up systems using them for heating purposes.
One common use of solar induced temperature gradient is to
have the heat exchanger above the heat collector and use the
temperaure difference to cause the heat transfer fluid to
move through the piping.
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| Message 11 |
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Subject: Re: Technology Transfer Thermoacoustic Engines and Refrigerators
From: "Mike Senger"
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 14:44:20 -0700
To the aquaponics list:
Sorry about that html submission. I forgot that the list format does not
support internet page forwarding.
For more info on thermoacoustic engines go to
www.worldandi.com/archive/nsjul98.htm and
www.arl.psu/publications/silverbook/thermengrefrig.html
I would also like to make a comment regarding "perpetual motion". My
research indicates that the greatest energy breakthrough will be when we
understand and capitalize on the principle of INDUCTION. That is, we
humans are literally swimming in a sea of high frequency cosmic
electromagnetic energy, most of which is of very very high frequency.
All the energy any of us needs is abundantly available at any point on the
planet by sticking the right antenna in the air and connecting that antenna
to a resonant transformer that steps that energy down into our frequency
realm. Tesla did this. Thomas Moray and others too. People labeled this
perpetual motion, its not, its induction.
Induction occurs in other ways too. With regards to our aquaponics systems,
I believe that certain fluidized bed sand filter designs, where the water
upwells from the bottom and energetically fluidizes the sand bed, also taps
into an inductive phenomena associated with "spinning" water in a vortex
flowform, creating a type of "living water". This happens naturally in
nature when water flows over or through obstacles.
Often when someone builds a device that appears to violate the laws of
thermodynamics, what is really happening is energy is being produced via an
inductive phenomena. This is also sometimes called zero point energy. Some
food for thought.
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Subject: Ron was watching cooking shows again
From: "Ronald W. Brooks"
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 17:41:47 -0400
I have this habit of watching " Great Chefs " while cooking supper and on
tonight's episode the chef doing the main course used baby bok choi
harvested at 3-4 inch size. has anyone tried growing these , I believe the
chef said he could not get enough so started to grow his own.
Also in one of my cooking magazines there was an intro of a new green being
introduced in the states called Samphire ( also called salicornia or sea
beans ) the nice thing about this green is that it is grown in salt water or
brackish water. Might be an option for those that grow salt or brackish to
add an Aquaponic section. It's listing states that a 3 ounce serving
supplies more than half the daily recommended daily value of sodium , a good
source of vitamin C and an excellent source of vitamin A
Ron
The One Who Walks Two Paths
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Subject: Re: Ron was watching cooking shows again
From: BruceStay
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 17:59:39 EDT
Hi,
Here in the Seattle are I grow baby bok choi outside in the ground about
nine months of the year. It is so easy to grow in the soil that I imagine it
would be a snap in any kind of aquaponics or hydroponic system. It does like
cooler weather. During our infrequent summertime hot spells it is necessary
to get it out of the ground fast or it will bolt and send out all kinds of
pretty yellow flowers. A couple of varieties are Mei Qing Choi which has
green stems and Choi Sum which has white stems.
Bruce Stayner
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Subject: RE: Ron was watching cooking shows again
From: "Ronald W. Brooks"
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 18:40:01 -0400
Bruce
How long from seed to harvest and how many plants per square foot are you
able to get ?
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| Message 15 |
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Subject: Re: Ron was watching cooking shows again
From: BruceStay
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 20:24:50 EDT
Ron
I generally start the seeds in indiviual soil cubes and then transplant
them out about 3 inches apart in all directions. I start harvesting
everyother one when they start touching. I would guess about 60 days from
seed to harvest during cool weather and only 40 or 45 days during hot
weather. I'm growing for my own use and to give away so don't keep as
accurate records as if I was doing it commercially. If you are interested in
Asian vegetables in general I might suggest Evergreen Y. H. Enterprises in
Anaheim,Ca. as a seed source. I have been dealing with them for several
years and have found them to be reliable and their cataloque is very
interesting. If I remember right I sent them some money for the catalogue
the first time but they have been sending it for free since. Their e-mail
address is eeseeds. You could write and ask.
Bruce
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Subject: RE: Ron was watching cooking shows again
From: "Ronald W. Brooks"
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 21:04:31 -0400
Thanks for the info
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Subject: Re: Acoustic Engine 10% more efficient than turbines.
From: Tvoivozhd
Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 22:05:18 -0400
> __________________________________________________
> Andrew or anyone else: Where can I find more info on this device?
> Jorg Ostrowski
>>>tvoivozhd---archive from you@newpower.org, and another with slightly
different perspective. The engine was developed at Los Alamos by
respectable engineers---not one of the weird science set.
By Jennifer Viegas
Researchers have developed a new engine that works so efficiently
that electric companies
may have to pay customers back. That might be wishful thinking,
but within the next few
years, the unique engine design could power everything from
refrigerators to heating
systems and cars.
According to a report in the latest Nature, the new engine draws
upon some old principles
-- first incorporated in the Stirling engine, invented in 1816.
Both the Stirling and the new
Backhaus-Swift engines create energy utilizing pressurized gas.
The thermoacoustic Backhaus-Swift engine, named after its
creators Scott Backhaus and
G.W. Swift of the Los Alamos National Laboratory, works using
helium.
Backhaus explains that helium is contained in the engine, like a
steel balloon. At certain
points, the helium is heated and then cooled.
The changes in temperature create acoustic energy in the form of
sound waves, similar to
the way stereo speakers amplify sound. The power produced can be
used to run an
acoustically-powered appliance, drive a piston engine or generate
electricity which can be
diverted to even more gadgets and gizmos.
Backhaus says because the engine has no moving parts it requires
little, if any
maintenance.
"It doesn't need to be oiled and it's relatively easy and
inexpensive to manufacture, since it's
constructed out of welded steel pipe," explains Backhaus, who
adds that the engine is also
environmentally friendly.
"One of the first industrial applications of the engine will be
to conserve natural gas
released during oil drilling," says Backhaus. Currently oil
companies burn the gas just to get
rid of it, which wastes energy and adds to pollution. The
Backhaus-Swift engine will enable
drillers to capture the gas on site and then sell it as fuel.
"The new engine is a major breakthrough that is going to change
the world," says Dr.
Steven Garrett, a researcher at Pennsylvania State University.
Garrett believes the engine could be used to power solar
collectors in homes, car electrical
systems, solar ice makers in third world countries, home air
conditioners and
energy-producing refrigerators. He says appliances that can run
on the engine will probably
be on the market in about five years.
Sound could be the key to engines of the future according
to American researchers.
A team at the Los Alamos National Laboratory in New
Mexico has developed an environmentally friendly engine
with no moving parts that is powered by sound waves.
The new engine is made from steel tubing and is cheap to
produce. Called a thermoacoustic Stirling heat engine, it
consists of a long baseball-bat-shaped resonator with an
oval chamber instead of a handle.
The engine is filled with
compressed helium and when heat is applied to the "handle"
acoustic energy in the form of sound waves is produced.
This can be used to drive a piston and create electricity. The
team is also working on a similar system to cool
refrigerators.
Scott Backhaus, one of the inventors of the engine, says:
"Conventional engines are limited by the laws of
thermodynamics and their complexity. Typically the most
efficient engines are the huge turbines used in power stations.
"Our small engine is actually 10 percent more efficient than the best
turbine, largely because of its simplicity," he says. The engine
is also maintenance-free as it has no moving parts.
The team is working on a way to use solar energy to power
the engine and considering a system that uses a car's exhaust
heat to power its air-conditioning system. A home version of
the engine, also under development, could be used both to
generate electricity and provide domestic heating.
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Subject: stirling engines
From: "Jorg D. Ostrowski"
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 19:41:24 -0600 (MDT)
Further to the previous message on the Backhaus-Swift engine, here is a
message of some time ago that dealt with stirling engines that are close
to commercial availability. Jorg Ostrowski
________________________________________________________________________
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 11:53:31 -0500
From: Stirling Technology
To: "Jorg D. Ostrowski"
Subject: Re: Eco-Village
Thank you for your interest in Stirling engines!
We are in the process of setting up a manufacturing operation in Japan.
We
expect the first prototypes to be out near the end of 1999. We are
working very
hard to bring the engines to market again. All sales, except Asian sales,
will
go through Stirling Technology, Inc., Athens, Ohio, USA. Price has not
been
determined. The estimated
beginning price is $5,000.00 US dollars.
Should you have any questions or concerns, please call us by phone at
740-594-2277or email us at stirltec@eurekanet.com
Best Regards, Chelsea Croston
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| Message 19 |
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Subject: Re: [Fwd: Virus warning] (fwd)
From: "Wendy Nagurny"
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 21:42:12 -0400
This is a hoax. Check out these websites for more internet hoaxes.
www.hoaxkill.com
and
http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/index.html
This site also has lots of good stuff on the real ones.
Wendy
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| Message 20 |
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Subject: Re: stirling engines
From: Tvoivozhd
Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 23:55:01 -0400
>>>tvoivozhd---thanks. I've got some extensive files on Sterlings, but
haven't updated them for a while. There are German engines available, but not
production quantity, so high price in relation to output.
"Jorg D. Ostrowski" wrote:
> Further to the previous message on the Backhaus-Swift engine, here is a
> message of some time ago that dealt with stirling engines that are close
> to commercial availability. Jorg Ostrowski
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 11:53:31 -0500
> From: Stirling Technology
> To: "Jorg D. Ostrowski"
> Subject: Re: Eco-Village
>
> Thank you for your interest in Stirling engines!
>
> We are in the process of setting up a manufacturing operation in Japan.
> We
> expect the first prototypes to be out near the end of 1999. We are
> working very
> hard to bring the engines to market again. All sales, except Asian sales,
> will
> go through Stirling Technology, Inc., Athens, Ohio, USA. Price has not
> been
> determined. The estimated
> beginning price is $5,000.00 US dollars.
> Should you have any questions or concerns, please call us by phone at
> 740-594-2277or email us at stirltec@eurekanet.com
>
> Best Regards, Chelsea Croston
S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO 65775 417-256-5124
Web page http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
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