Aquaponics Digest - Sun 08/22/99
Message 1: Re: CO2 Enrichment
from dreadlox@cwjamaica.com (michael kent barnett)
Message 2: Pond software
from Colin Johnston
Message 3: Re: Pond software
from mmiller@pcsia.com
Message 4: Re: Pond software
from atkindw@cwjamaica.com (david w atkinson)
Message 5: Mesclun 101
from Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Message 6: Re: Pond software
from William Evans
Message 7: Re: Pond software
from Dirtman
Message 8: RE: Mesclun and Bananas
from "Ronald W. Brooks"
Message 9: Pond software
from Colin Johnston
Message 10: Re: [RE: Mesclun and Bananas]Growers Edge?
from Debra Russell
Message 11: Re: [RE: Mesclun and Bananas]Growers Edge?
from Jennifer Maynard
Message 12: Re: Mesclun and Bananas
from Jennifer Maynard
Message 13: RE: Pond software
from "Ronald W. Brooks"
Message 14: Re: Pond software (Alternative)
from atkindw@cwjamaica.com (david w atkinson)
Message 15: Re: Mesclun 101
from Jennifer Maynard
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| Message 1 |
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Subject: Re: CO2 Enrichment
From: dreadlox@cwjamaica.com (michael kent barnett)
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 18:51:30 +0100
Follow up questions to these folks??
http://stensund.nu/aqua/
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Subject: Pond software
From: Colin Johnston
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 13:44:50 +0800
Attention Troops !
http://biosys.bre.orst.edu/pond/download.htm
I just d/l the new version with no problems.
>The url is correct and appears to be located at a school, so perhaps if down
>now for weekly maintenance. Save the url and try again later. You'll like
>the program.
If Oregon State University is a 'school' then you're correct but the server
isn't
down. I did a familiarization course at WAS Bangkok with the university staff
which sparked my interest. Version 4 beta is a big step forward.
Cheers
Colin
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Subject: Re: Pond software
From: mmiller@pcsia.com
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 06:03:30 -0500
I just tried the download and the root .edu site and was refused connection
on each. How big is the file? Maybe you could send it as an attachment to
private emails or post it somewhere? The software sound rather
interesting. Mike Miller
At 04:13 22-08-99 -0600, you wrote:
>
>Attention Troops !
>
>http://biosys.bre.orst.edu/pond/download.htm
>
>I just d/l the new version with no problems.
>
> >The url is correct and appears to be located at a school, so perhaps if
down
> >now for weekly maintenance. Save the url and try again later. You'll like
> >the program.
>
>If Oregon State University is a 'school' then you're correct but the server
>isn't
>down. I did a familiarization course at WAS Bangkok with the university staff
>which sparked my interest. Version 4 beta is a big step forward.
>
>Cheers
>
>Colin
>
>
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Subject: Re: Pond software
From: atkindw@cwjamaica.com (david w atkinson)
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 07:41:43 -0500
I tried again and got the message that the server is not responding or could
be down.
Maybe you could advise us of the size and post it to the group.
Those that want to receive the software could respond directly.
David Atkinson
>Attention Troops !
>
>http://biosys.bre.orst.edu/pond/download.htm
>
>I just d/l the new version with no problems.
>
> >The url is correct and appears to be located at a school, so perhaps if down
> >now for weekly maintenance. Save the url and try again later. You'll like
> >the program.
>
>If Oregon State University is a 'school' then you're correct but the server
>isn't
>down. I did a familiarization course at WAS Bangkok with the university staff
>which sparked my interest. Version 4 beta is a big step forward.
>
>Cheers
>
>Colin
>
>
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Subject: Mesclun 101
From: Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 09:00:20 -0400
Hi Jennifer,
Where in the Caribbean are you located? If you are in a tourist
destination with lots of upscale restaurants you should definitely have
a good niche. I love this business so far. Here goes on your
questions:
> Adriana, for banana, I am thinking of some of our local varieties to get
some small scale "semi commercial" production for a small hotel niche for
local types.
Maybe there's a market for specialty bananas but since they don't
produce fruit continuously you're tying up a lot of space and equipment
in between crops. Perhaps field grown in a "run-to-waste" set-up would
work.
> Where do we start with mesclun.
To start you'll need a good open growing bed. Sorry, hydroponic systems
that feature cut-out holes will not give you maximum yield. Most people
who are growing mesclun are broadcasting seed with a shaker onto growing
beds. Paula and Tom have poly growing beds with gravel, I use 1' x 14'
aluminum channels with perlite. This allows you to grow 4+ plants per
square inch.
>I am setting some seeds in perlite and vermiculute this week end.
Perlite alone will work just fine so there's no need to further
complicate things with vermiculite, which I believe will increase the
amount of water being held in the media.
>I am planning to try a simple experiment by using the styrofoam raft and an
aquarium air pump, just to see what gives.
The raft system is good for individual lettuce production but not
necessarily for mesclun.
>My thing is I need to come up with a system that is raised to reduce
harvest fatigue as I am not going large enough to want to spend US$11,000 on
an automated harvester yet.
You definitely want the beds raised to between 24-30". It takes a huge
operation to justify the harvester.
> Do, pray tell? what are some of the absolute no,nos and pit falls to look for.
1. Marketing is THE MOST IMPORTANT ELEMENT of success in this venture.
This means the right product at the right quality at the right price in
the right package. If you're doing this only because you like growing
things you wont do well. You have to like and enjoy talking to chefs
and/or store owners and be responsive to their likes/dislikes. This is
a business about passion, not lettuce...If you are in a good sized area
catering to tourists with good quality restaurants you should have a
good market.
2. Be prepared to be tied to this operation 7 days a week; if you can
fit a partner into your operation it will be very useful if you want to
do things like take a weekend off or go on vacation ever. It is best if
the greenhouse is adjacent to your home as there are tasks that are best
done early morning (harvesting) and late afternoon (spraying) and having
to drive back is a deterrent from doing things when they need to be
done.
3. You will need some additional expensive equipment like a walk-in
cooler. The single most important factor in the shelf life of lettuces
is cooling it down to 32 degrees within 1 hour of harvest. A related
decision is whether to wash the product or not. It cools it down
quickly but adds labor and some say causes some tissue damage due to
extra handling. My philosophy is if I can't provide a USDA
food-processing approved facility then I shouldn't get into washing.
4. Find out what your competition is and be sure that what you produce
is every bit as pretty as theirs. Color is critical, critical,
critical, especially red. You'll need to do a lot of experimentation to
find out what will grow red under your particular conditions. One
surprise is that the plants often don't look like the picture in the
catalog, different climates and growing conditions (outside, sun and
plastic) result in very different colors from those shown in the
catalogs so you have to test each variety before you decide to include
it in your mix. Plan to grow the varieties separately for improved
yields and ease of management.
5. Start by setting up a small prototype of whatever system you're
planning to use and grow the crops. This will give you something to
show for test marketing. I leased greenhouse space in order to minimize
my upfront capital and risk. For initial test purposes start with a
Johnny's mesclun mix and then later customize it for your market.
6. One of my best decisions in this process was to hire a consultant.
It costs less than making two site visits and you have the benefit of
many years of experience with successes and failures. Then when you're
operational you have someone to call for additional advice.
> What would help me is what varieties are heat tolerant ( of the various
species that
> should be included in a mesclun, i.e. arugula, sorrel, mache, lettuce,
asian greens,
> mustards, edible flowers, etc.)
This depends on your high temperatures which requires trial and error
for each climate. I can tell you that mache and watercress will not
grow in your climate. The lettuces (romaine, buttercrunch, etc.) will
need to be germinated in 50-70 degree temperature, after which they will
grow nicely.
> I am in the tropics, what would be the need of a green house over my set up.
I would at a minimum provide a roof over the crop, 6 mill greenhouse
plastic would be OK, the construction grade breaks down. This protects
the crop from rain. William Brown in Hawaii does this without any
additional enclosure I believe. I have mine in a greenhouse and have
wondered if the screen helps to keep the bugs in, rather than out. If
you have driving rains you'll probably want to be able to provide some
side protection. Screen is adequate for now but I can't wait for our
first hurricane scare any day now. Then we'll need to close up the
house with plastic.
>Should I use agrofabric as an insect excluder? Does the crop last long
enough for insects? What tend to be the Florida pests?
Unfortunately yes, the bugs will find you. Aphids, white flies,
cutworms, army worms, flea hopper and this week, snails. I plan to do a
test of agrofabric as soon as I can fins some of the lightest weight in
quantities smaller than 250 linear feet. I hope you have a good local
source for environmentally friendly pest control materials like
pyrethrins, BT, neem, Naturalis or Botaniguard, ladybugs, encarsia and
lacewings. This has been probably the most difficult aspect of the last
six moths. Not letting your crops go beyond 4-5 weeks is important to
keeping the critters down. This ties in to very rigorous succession
planning which is tricky at first until you learn the specifics of each
variety that you are growing for each season. Hopefully you have a good
agriculture extension service to help on this aspect.
As to literature, be sure to go to the web site for the current issue of
Practical Hydroponics and Greenhouses
http://www.hydroponics.com.au/current_issue.html , click on the Masters
of Mesclun article. This is a large-scale operation. Growing Edge
Magazine is also a very good resource. The Hydrolists Hydroponic
Resource home page has an extraordinary list of useful links (
http://home.rmi.net/~liderbug/hydrolinks/).
Good luck,
Adriana
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Subject: Re: Pond software
From: William Evans
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 07:30:11 -0700
Maybe they need more bandwidth?????
Description: Unable to connect to the site "biosys.bre.orst.edu" for the
document
"http://biosys.bre.orst.edu/pond/download.htm".
The site is down, overloaded, or unreachable. Try connecting again
later.
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| Message 7 |
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Subject: Re: Pond software
From: Dirtman
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 09:55:16 -0500
I went to http://www.orst.edu/ and found this in a serch of their site:
Looked interesting.
http://www.orst.edu/Dept/crsp/pubs/technical/14tchhtml/2/2d/2d6/2d6.html
William Evans wrote:
> Maybe they need more bandwidth?????
> Description: Unable to connect to the site "biosys.bre.orst.edu" for the
> document
> "http://biosys.bre.orst.edu/pond/download.htm".
>
> The site is down, overloaded, or unreachable. Try connecting again
> later.
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Subject: RE: Mesclun and Bananas
From: "Ronald W. Brooks"
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 18:43:58 -0400
-> Behalf Of Jennifer Maynard
-> Sent: Saturday, August 21, 1999 11:42 PM
-> To: aquaponics@townsqr.com
-> Subject: Re: Mesclun and Bananas
->
-> Adriana, for banana, I am thinking of some of our local
-> varieties to get some small scale
-> "semi commercial" production for a small hotel niche for local types.
->
-> I am in the tropics, what would be the need of a green house
-> over my set up.
-> Jennifer
->
Jennifer
I am with Adriana one this. Banana's make large mats , up to 30 feet round
root masses. To be viable you would end up with so much space taken up just
by banana's. Yes I have seen some people fruit banana's in hydroponics but
they are happy with a few pounds of fruit. Plus you live in the tropics. the
perfect place to grow banana's. I would plant then outside around your fish
tanks to help shade them . then run your waste water and nutrient to the
banana's. If no fish plant them around one side of your grow beds , nearest
the nutrient tanks.
I am going to suggest a book. Banana's and Plantains by J.C. Robinson
ISBN # 0-85198-985-3
You can buy it at Borders.com it is $40
This book is part of the crop production series for Ag students.
Now as far as greenhouse cover. Pretty much you just need to cover the tops
of the crops to keep your lettuce mix clean. In New Zealand they don't even
bother with that , just grow it outdoors. Check out the latest issue of "
The Growers Edge "
Ron
The One Who Walks Two Paths
ICQ 44271371
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Subject: Pond software
From: Colin Johnston
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 08:31:59 +0800
--=====================_2093429==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
David,
>I tried again and got the message that the server is not responding or could
>be down.
>Maybe you could advise us of the size and post it to the group.
>Those that want to receive the software could respond directly.
>David Atkinson
The file size is 789KB but I found that some files were missing and so I d/l
the other smaller program files (551KB) and dumped them all into the same
folder overwriting the duplicates, and things worked fine. If anyone wants me
to upload the integrated program to a site just let me have the details.
Colin
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------
According to our records you downloaded a copy of POND.
A new version is now available! Pond Version 4.0b may be downloaded
from http://biosys.bre.orst.edu/pond/download.htm.
In order to make the next version of POND even better we
would like your input. A survey is available at
http://biosys.bre.orst.edu/pond/Survey.cfm. Please take the time to
complete the survey so that then next version of POND will
better address your needs.
Thank you,
The Biosystems Analysis Group
Bioresource Engineering Department
Oregon State University
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| Message 10 |
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Subject: Re: [RE: Mesclun and Bananas]Growers Edge?
From: Debra Russell
Date: 22 Aug 99 18:22:12 PDT
IS the Growers Edge a commonly found magazine or what?
"Ronald W. Brooks" wrote:
Now as far as greenhouse cover. Pretty much you just need to cover the to=
ps
of the crops to keep your lettuce mix clean. In New Zealand they don't ev=
en
bother with that , just grow it outdoors. Check out the latest issue of "=
The Growers Edge "
____________________________________________________________________
Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://webm=
ail.netscape.com.
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Subject: Re: [RE: Mesclun and Bananas]Growers Edge?
From: Jennifer Maynard
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 21:40:35 -0300
Debra, I go through my stuff and share what I have found so far. I do not
live in Florida but
I am in the Carribbean and am willing to share what I have learnt with you.
I will need to
sit down and check my bookmarks etc an comply my " bibliography" and pass
it on.
All the best and good luck
Jennifer
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Subject: Re: Mesclun and Bananas
From: Jennifer Maynard
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 21:42:39 -0300
Ronald, Thanks very much for the comment on the Bananas and coverings.
Thanks, Jennifer
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Subject: RE: Pond software
From: "Ronald W. Brooks"
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 21:35:50 -0400
Colin What do you need to upload. I have a site and we could put it there if
needed.
Ron
The One Who Walks Two Paths
ICQ 44271371
-----Original Message-----
From: aquaponics
[mailto:aquaponics]On Behalf Of Colin Johnston
Sent: Sunday, August 22, 1999 8:32 PM
To: aquaponics@townsqr.com
Subject: Pond software
David,
>I tried again and got the message that the server is not responding or
could
>be down.
>Maybe you could advise us of the size and post it to the group.
>Those that want to receive the software could respond directly.
>David Atkinson
The file size is 789KB but I found that some files were missing and so I
d/l
the other smaller program files (551KB) and dumped them all into the same
folder overwriting the duplicates, and things worked fine. If anyone wants
me
to upload the integrated program to a site just let me have the details.
Colin
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------
According to our records you downloaded a copy of POND.
A new version is now available! Pond Version 4.0b may be downloaded
from http://biosys.bre.orst.edu/pond/download.htm.
In order to make the next version of POND even better we
would like your input. A survey is available at
http://biosys.bre.orst.edu/pond/Survey.cfm. Please take the time to
complete the survey so that then next version of POND will
better address your needs.
Thank you,
The Biosystems Analysis Group
Bioresource Engineering Department
Oregon State University
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| Message 14 |
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Subject: Re: Pond software (Alternative)
From: atkindw@cwjamaica.com (david w atkinson)
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 20:53:42 -0500
Try these sites:
http://www.actwin.com/fish/software.cgi
http://infoweb.magi.com/~asd/
David
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| Message 15 |
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Subject: Re: Mesclun 101
From: Jennifer Maynard
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 22:14:59 -0300
Adriana, I am in a tourism oriented country. I am glad tha you pointed out
the fact of the RAFT systems. The note on the marketing issues are great.
I did get a feel the
mesclun is not a crop it is a vocation.
thanks for the rest of the info. Check Shepperds Seed for the Agrofabric ot
these sites:
.http://www.webcom.com/ecostore/gardeningsupplies1.html
http://www.heirloomseeds.com/sthrn-veg.htm
Hope this is what you are looking for, post me on your results.
Jennifer
S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO 65775 417-256-5124
Web page http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
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