Aquaponics Digest - Fri 09/03/99
Message 1: Re: Herbs post-harvest cleaning
from Marc & Marcy
Message 2: Aquaponic Swimming Pool
from Mike Strates
Message 3: Re: Herbs post-harvest cleaning
from Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Message 4: H2O2, was Re: Herbs post-harvest cleaning
from S & S Aqua Farm
Message 5: Backyard aquaponics seeks fish
from Bagelhole1
Message 6: Talipia
from khale@ballistic.com
Message 7: Re: CO2 Enrichment
from Mike Strates
Message 8: Nitrate Poisioning
from Mike Strates
Message 9: Hydrogen Peroxide
from Peggy & Emmett
Message 10: Nitrate and Other Forms of Art
from "TGTX"
Message 11: Nitrates in drinking water
from "TGTX"
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| Message 1 |
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Subject: Re: Herbs post-harvest cleaning
From: Marc & Marcy
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 23:06:52 -0600
..snip..
>
> "The current recommendation is a coonstant maintenance of to 150 parta
> per million of FREE (available) chlorine and a pH in the range of to 7.5
> for all recirculated water."
150 ppm is pretty strong. This sounds like a pair of gloves
and eye protection may be a comfortable idea. A good supply
of fresh air?
Also, how about Clorox/liquid bleach? Chlorine is nasty
stuff. Clorox or other forms of 5.25% sodium hypochlorite
are pretty weak (safer in the jug) and readily available.
When diluted are quite commonly used in water purification
with government approval. They also test properly on
chlorine testers for free and total. A mixing table may be
found at:
http://www.boe.state.co.us/Table3.html
> "After adding commercial chlorine, adjust the pH of the water to 7 by
> adding either acid or base. Muriatic acid (HCL) or citric acid are
> commonly used to lower pH while sodium hydroxide (lye) will raise pH."
Some acid products are by products of industrial processes
and have no business around foods due to various
contaminants they posses. One might check the purity and
intended application of the acid about to be used in pH
adjustment.
..snip..
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| Message 2 |
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Subject: Aquaponic Swimming Pool
From: Mike Strates
Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 18:34:56 +1000
Hello people,
I inquired on the list several months ago re: aquaponic swimming pool, and
now I am at a stage where I am ready to buy the materials and begin. I need
as many hints and resources as possible to make this a reality. The problems
are:
* the water must be safe to swim in
* fish must reside in the water as well
Would constant aeration kill pathogens?? -Mike
--
Mike "Skyfox" Strates ; www.croftj.net/~mstrates
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Subject: Re: Herbs post-harvest cleaning
From: Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 04:10:29 -0400
Marc,
There was no mention of the need for protective equipment.
> 150 ppm is pretty strong. This sounds like a pair of gloves
> and eye protection may be a comfortable idea. A good supply
> of fresh air?
I'm not sure if I made a typo, the range is 100 to 150 ppm. There were
charts for dilution for different types of bleach including household
bleach (5.25%), 12.75% solutions available through swimming pool
companies and 65% available in powdered or tablet form. The powder was
not recommended because undissolved particles can burn plant tissue.
> Also, how about Clorox/liquid bleach? Chlorine is nasty
> stuff. Clorox or other forms of 5.25% sodium hypochlorite
> are pretty weak (safer in the jug) and readily available.
> When diluted are quite commonly used in water purification
> with government approval. They also test properly on
> chlorine testers for free and total. A mixing table may be
> found at:
>
> http://www.boe.state.co.us/Table3.html
>
> > "After adding commercial chlorine, adjust the pH of the water to 7 by
> > adding either acid or base. Muriatic acid (HCL) or citric acid are
> > commonly used to lower pH while sodium hydroxide (lye) will raise pH."
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| Message 4 |
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Subject: H2O2, was Re: Herbs post-harvest cleaning
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 08:53:03 -0500
At 02:10 AM 09/01/1999 +0000, Claude Gelinas wrote:
>I'm looking for information on post harvest cleaning of herbs in order to
>remove dirts (sand, earth etc) and also reduce micro organism responsible for
>browning of leaves and other problem that reduce product quality.
>
>Could someone direct me to some source of information about that.
Claude - you've received many replies to your original question. I'll
repost here some of the earlier discussions on using Hydrogen Peroxide for
your evaluation. Although chlorine seems to be the "industry standard" for
this purpose (post-harvest cleaning), we feel H2O2 to be a better
alternative, primarily due to the possible carcinogenic affects from chlorine.
Of course, you could adjust your growing system to eliminate "dirts (sand,
earth, etc)" that would give you cause to need a cleaning system, and
perhaps defining a regional instead of international market would eliminate
the need for long-term holding of your products.
For your review:
-----------------------------------
Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 22:57:45 -0500
From: Dave Roberts
To: aquaponics@townsqr.com
Subject: Re: off the grid
I'm one of those lurkers that doesn't talk much on this list...unless
there is something to say.
I had a friend in New Mexico who was raised on an aq farm where they
raised rainbow trout in silos! They had a huge organic garden, and the
"residue" from the garden was ground up and fed to the fish...worked
really neat-o! The fish, in turn, fertilized the garden...with sludge
and occasionally a few dead fish. This was a HUGE operation till the dad
died...then the mom...and the kids moved in with relatives. They pumped
well water...about 300K gallons a day into the silos. Used a pond system
to re-treat the water. Set up aquariums in restaurants for 5 states
around and trucked the critters LIVE to the restaurants. People picked
them out for dinner...YUM!
There is also something that you should know...if you take CROP RESIDUE
(i.e. stalks, stems, corncob, sawdust, silage, chaff, etc.) and SOAK IT
IN A ONE-PERCENT SOLUTION OF HYDROGEN PEROXIDE FOR 17 HOURS... you will
have a perfect feed for most any animal (cows, pigs, horses, sheep,
goats, etc.) The peroxide breaks down the lignin and allows the animal
to digest it in 12 to 24 hours INSTEAD of the usual 72 hours for
"normal" feeds. THE ANIMAL WILL ALSO GAIN WEIGHT AS IF CORN-FED!!!!
((((This is not BS, either. A man named Michael Gould at the Peoria,
Illinois USDA plant there developed this process and PATENTED IT! He
MOVED on to Florida and works for a major orange juice plant...guess
which one!))))
There is less marbling, greater lean mass, NO CANCER (and if there is
any...it just disappears...OOOH!!)You don't have to use antibiotics on
the animals. Gets rid of waterbelly, colic, etc. Geee! Makes me wonder
if you could use this peroxide on humans.... (go to www.oxytherapy.com
and read the testimonials...especially the second one by a guy named
Brown.)
I hope this helps--in a LOT of ways!
dave
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From: "Harrop"
Subject: peroxide
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 01:27:22 -0400
I have been using peroxide (I mix to 2%) to sterilize all my NFT troughs-
works great and I have had no problems with either pythium or verticilium
wilt (excuse my spelling- it's late and my brain hurts from a very hot and
humid day.) The basil plants seem to be much more vibrant (my imagination?)
and I've qften wondered if the extra oxygen in the peroxide disassociates
and is absorbed in the root system somehow. I believe there are grounds for
further hardcore research (anyone looking for a thesis?) Rob
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To: aquaponics@townsqr.com
From: "uwe"
Subject: Re: peroxide
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 98 10:01:16 PDT
Hi Rob,
your suspicion that the extra oxigen atom is helping somehow, sounds very
reasonable. All those testimonials on that website tell me that this is the
way the "curing" (they don't like or use the word) is done. Wouldn't there
be a simple "home-made" way of testing this? Unfortunately, so far I don't
have my own installation, so for the moment I can't help. But it should be
possible to discuss a testing procedure, break it up in "chunks", and have
different people testing different apsects. How does that sound?
Uwe
----------------------------------
Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 08:52:42 -0500
To: aquaponics@townsqr.com
From: Brian Gracia
Subject: Re: peroxide - It hurts & helps
We have had this discussion on one of the hydroponic lists. Adding it in
low doses helps oxidize the organics like algea, etc. It also attacks your
plant roots being they are organic also. If you use it in a low enough
dose, it will help to keep the algea down to a min, and provide oxygen to
your plant roots as it breaks down.
Brian
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Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 10:46:28 -0500
From: Gordon Watkins
To: aquaponics@townsqr.com
Does anyone have any info on the effect of peroxide on fish? I know
some years back there was a product being marketed for aquaria which
injected peroxide under the gravel to help oxygenate the water, so
presumably there's a level that's safe for fish.
I've long used peroxide as a spray adjuvant when applying foliar
nutrients to field crops, in which it is reported to increase uptake
efficiency. It would be interesting to explore its use in aquaponic
systems in more depth.
Gordon
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X-Sender: snsaquasys@townsqr.com
Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 08:49:57 -0500
To: aquaponics@townsqr.com
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Subject: Hydrogen Peroxide - caution
Reply-To: aquaponics@townsqr.com
Sender: aquaponics
After our discussions on H2O2 recently, I received the following caution
from a list member. Something that we should all be careful of when using
this product is to be certain we're buying/using food grade. His comments
follow. Paula
-----------------------------------------------
>I need to tell ya that IF you have the peroxide PERCENTAGE (ppm) too
>high, it will knock off the bacteria. BUT, if the bacteria is AEROBIC
>kind, it will probably be OK. The HP goes after the ANEROBIC critters
>and fries them! TOAST! 'Does the same in the blood....
>
>A lot of careful experimenting is in order here...put the word out to
>those who care to try this TO GO SLOWLY and don't push it. MAKE SURE
>THEY USE FOOD GRADE PEROXIDE!!! There is the CHEAPER KINDS CALLED
>"INDUSTRIAL" AND "PHARMACEUTICAL" GRADE. These are NOT for animal or
>human consumption because they have high levels of heavy metals (like
>cadmium, tin, arsenic, mercury, etc.!)
--------------------------------------------
To: aquaponics@townsqr.com
Subject: Re: Hydrogen Peroxide - caution
Date: Fri, 03 Jul 98 09:46:25 PDT
Hi Paula,
thanks for forwarding this info; it's very important. I was about to use
"PHARMACEUTICAL" GRADE" on myself...
--------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 11:19:01 -0500
To: aquaponics@townsqr.com
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Subject: Re: Hydrogen Peroxide - caution
Uwe - I'm afraid I've not stated clearly what I wanted to communicate.
Pharmacy grade H2O2 "may be" acceptable for human external or topical use.
Industrial grade probably also has its appropriate applications. I'm not
trying to slam the industry or make claims I can't personally document.
My primary reason for posting the remarks was to make sure that all of us
are aware that there are multiple types of hydrogen peroxide available.
When using in an aquaponics system, growing food products, only food grade
should be used (my own opinion).
Since finding that there was such a thing as food grade (which is 35% H2O2),
we've used it exclusively in our home and greenhouse. Full strength can be
diluted to the standard 3% that's available in pharmacies. As I remember,
part of the reason for the additives was for stability and shelf life. I'll
have to dig further into my files to find more.
Paula
-------------------------------------------------
From: "John Phillips"
Subject: Re: Hydrogen Peroxide - caution
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 14:02:53 -0000
Regarding the use of food grade hydrogen peroxide for human consumption,
great caution is required in storage and consumption of this form of
hydrogen peroxide because it can be deadly. Food grade hydrogen peroxide
often comes as a 35% solution, compared to 1-2% concentration in the
product usually found in drug stores. Food grade hydrogen peroxide is
consumed at a rate of 1 or 2 drops in a 12 oz. glass of water.
Unfortunately, there have been instances where someone unsuspecting has
found a bottle of food grade hydrogen peroxide in the refrigerator and
taken a swig. This recently happened in Benson, Arizona. The person died
a horrible death that took several days, and apparently there was nothing
the doctors could do to counteract the effects of the overdose.
So, label bottles carefully, and take extra caution around children, pets
and so on when using this concentrated form of hydrogen peroxide.
John Phillips
------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 19:59:03 -0400
From: Peggy & Emmett
Subject: H2O2 Discussion
It's been a long time since I was a chemistry major but I thought
pharmaceutical grade was as in USP which means pretty darn pure. ...Emmett
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Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 19:22:09 -0500
To: aquaponics@townsqr.com
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Subject: Re: H2O2 Discussion
At 07:59 PM 7/3/98 -0400, you wrote:
>It's been a long time since I was a chemistry major but I thought
>pharmaceutical grade was as in USP which means pretty darn pure. ...Emmett
Emmett - I'd never argue with you (for the rest of you folks, Em is too
smart for me to directly disagree with him). I'll just post the information
from which I drew my conclusions (this is from a Consumer Reports article,
March 1985, published as ECHO Newsletter 1984-1992 Highlights, which I only
have a portion of):
Grades of Hydrogen Peroxide by Rodney E. Alsop, D.Ph.M., Ph.D.
3% Hydrogen peroxide (drug/grocery store variety)
Made from 50% Super D Peroxide, Diluted, Contains stabilizers
-phenol, acetanilide, acetanlid, sodium stanate, tetrasodium phosphate among
them.
6% Hydrogen peroxide (Used by beauticians for coloring hair)
Comes in strengths labeled 10, 20, 40 volume. Must have activator
added to be used as a bleach. Stabilizers used unknown at this point.
30% Re-Agent Hydrogen Peroxide
Used in medical research. Also contains stabilizers
30-32% Electronic Grade Hydrogen Peroxide
Contains a small amount of phosphorus to neutralize any chlorine in
the water it is combined with.
35% Food Grade Hydrogen Peroxide
(Also 50% Food Grade Hydrogen Peroxide)
Used in food products like cheese, eggs, whey products. Also used
to spray inside of foil lined containers for food storage - known as the
asceptic packaging system.
90% Hydrogen Peroxide
Used by the military as a source of Oxygen at Cape Canaveral. Used
as a propulsion source in rock fuel.
99.6% Hydrogen Peroxide
This was first made in 1954 as an experiment to see how pure
hydrogen peroxide could be.
I agree that this source may not be the ultimate. However, we've used this
(and others) as our basis for using 35% food grade H2O2 in aquaponics. We
also have a healthy appreciation for it's potential dangers if used (or
handled) unwisely. Please keep in mind that this (35%) rate is a caustic
solution that can do harm to unprotected human skin, eyes, etc. However,
used in a proper dilution (recirculating fish water) can provide, in our
opinion, a very effective, safe sanitizing agent.
Paula Speraneo
-------------------------------------------------------
From: "uwe"
Subject: Re: H2O2 Again
Date: Sat, 04 Jul 98 16:40:27 PDT
Hi Emmet and whoelse knows about chemistry,
my peroxide contains a stabilizer called "acetanilida" in Spanish (should be
about the same in Latin). Do you have an idea how dangerous that could be to
my health if I ingest it?
----------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 17:21:37 -0500
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Subject: H2O2 statement
Following was posted from Dave Roberts:
Hi List!
I just had to reply to this one...I know this subject VERY WELL!
Pharmaceutical grade is what the drug boys WANT YOU TO THINK IS THE
PUREST GRADE!!! It is NOT!! It is NOT "USP" grade either! It is the
"junk grade" that you buy in the grocery
store or pharmacy as 3%. IT HAS HIGH LEVELS OF TIN, ARSENIC, LEAD,
CADMIUM, and other "heavy metals" that accumulate as a result of the
CHEAP CRACKING PROCESS used to make this grade! If you read the label,
it says to RINSE YOUR MOUTH OUT AFTER USING IT! WHY if it is so pure?
(THEY KNOW!)
The NEXT purest grade is Industrial, which is not much better than the
3% in the grocery store--but is 35%, 50% and 90% (used in booster
rockets as the oxygen source!!) strength.
The NEXT purest grade is FOOD GRADE--which is about 500 times purer than
the Industrial grade and is available in 35% and 50%. It has extremely
LOW levels of stabilizers (considered very safe) and is made by a
different process usually.
THE PUREST GRADE IS...MICROPROCESS/REAGENT (OR I.V.) GRADE - 30%. Used
by electronics mfgrs. to clean the circuit boards, etc. This is also
used by
doctors all over the world (except in rare cases here in the U.S.--where
alternative docs use it carefully and mostly in secret!) by M.D. as an
I.V adjunct. It can be diluted and diffused with a fine butterfly
needle directly into the vein. It is often used to clear plaque from
veins and to lower cholesterol levels quickly. This grade is about 1000
times purer than food grade. It is also about $75 for a 16 ounce bottle!
You can buy it in bulk for about $40 a gallon, however. Food grade can
be bought for about $12 a gallon in bulk. Industrial grade for about $5
a gallon. Quite a difference.
I studied hydrogen peroxide carefully, because I used it to save my OWN
life! Then the lives of my closest friends. It never failed.
That gentleman that wrote in about the accidental death of someone in
Arizona is RIGHT!! YOU must mark the bottle or container WELL! IT LOOKS
JUST LIKE WATER IN A BOTTLE. IF YOU DRINK IT STRAIGHT--GOD HELP YOU!
Put it in a DARK BROWN GLASS BOTTLE in the fridge and mark it with skull
and crossbones death symbol!
If you are a purist, you can make your own peroxide by bubbling ozone
gas through pure water---get 3% after a while. How to make your own
ozone generator CHEAP? Gonna have to email me on that one.
Gotta go now. Any questions will be gladly answered.
dave
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Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 12:30:29 -0500
From: Gordon Watkins
Subject: Re: H2O2 Discussion
Hi Paula,
Thanks for the excellent data and timely warnings on H2O2. I use 35% as
a foliar spray adjuvant and would also caution folks to handle it
carefully.
Can you describe in more detail how use use H2O2 in your system? Do you
use it as a sterilant between batches of fish and/or crops or do you use
it on stocked systems? At what rate and how often is it used? Have you
seen any effect on DO levels?
Thanks,
Gordon
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Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 16:43:47 -0500
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Subject: Re: H2O2 Discussion
Gordon, we don't use H2O2 on any routine basis, although we recommend it's
use in sterilizing gravel on initial set-up.
We have added a 10% dilution of 35% food grade for a suspect fungal/wilt
problem in beds with good results, but in that instance, we've drained to
the outside, not returned to the tanks, just to be more certain of
eliminating the original problem.
I remember some tropical fish raisers explaining that H2O2 is often used in
emergency situations to boost oxygen in fish water during transport, but
remembered them saying also that it could be used only once because of the
change that would occur in the water. Anyone have any ideas on why this is?
I saved the following post from the Hydro mail list last week regarding
hydrogen peroxide use in solution, just for information. I'd be interested
in reports by anyone else using it in an aquaponics situation.
Paula
--------------------forwarded message------------------
>From: M.Evers@ALGEC.UNIMAAS.NL (m.evers)
>Subject: re: Hydrogen Peroxide
>Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 08:59:47 +0000 (EZT)
>To: hydro@lists.best.com
>
>
>If I recall correctly, in this article (from the hydro archives) they
mention the use of 4 ml 30%
>hydrogen peroxide per 10 litres nutrient solution. I use it myself in a
>slightly higher dose (50 ml per 100 litres of nutrient solution). This will
>take care of most of your fungi and bacteria problems. I never had any
>problems with fungi or bacteria (I have an indoor garden for a year now).
>Every other day I measure the remaining amount of nutrient solution and I add
>H2O2 accordingly (5 ml per 10 litres). It's also possible to spray your crops
>with a .5-1.0% solution (1 part 30% H202 on 30 to 60 part water). It will
>make your crops look supperb and it keeps away the fungi. In my opinion, H2O2
>is the best preventive anti-fungicide I know.
>
>Using H2O2 in nutrient solutions also helps adding atomic oxygen to the
>roots. All plants need oxygen at their roots in order to be able to pick up
>the nutrients.
>
>However, remember more is not always better. If you use a to high doses the
>minerals, vitamins, etc. in the nutrient solution will start oxidizing. This
>is not what you want.
>
>Good luck,
>
>Maurice
>
------------------------------------------------------
Hope this is of interest. Paula
S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO 65775 417-256-5124
Web page http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
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| Message 5 |
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Subject: Backyard aquaponics seeks fish
From: Bagelhole1
Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 10:38:39 EDT
Dear People of the Fish,
Yesterday we laid the heavy plastic, industrial, said
the Warp Brothers, they don't know if its toxic, but covered with 2 layers of
6ml plastic, hopefully non-toxic and 4ml clear plastic for the greenhouse.
The wind made it a challenge. But now it is fairly secured, by ropes. And
today, hopefully we will figure how to make the ends so we can use the doors
at each end and cover the walkway in the middle with plywood. Hang the 2
liter plant holding, plastic bottles from the structures where the overhead
tubes will drip water into after we get the pump going. I hope this all makes
sense to you. I hope to get pictures up in a few weeks in the project section
of the website http://bagelhole.org (focusing on low-tech sustainable
ideas/methods).
But now, I am looking for the best source (cheapest) for ordering tilapia.
I'm not sure how many I can get. My race way is a rectangle with a walkway in
the middle, about 22'x2'x2' on each side, 7' across on both ends, also about
2' deep and across. I was hoping for about 200 or more, to be able to begin
harvesting at the new year, which would mean they would have to be
fingerlings probably about 4 months old, I guess.
And I wanted to thank everyone on this list for responding to my questions so
greatly, I feel very honored to be on this list and learning so much from you.
Kind
Regards,
Tom O (bagelhole1)
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| Message 6 |
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Subject: Talipia
From: khale@ballistic.com
Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 11:35:46 -0500
Mr Bagelhole-sorry to address you through the group but your address came
back with a error message. I have pure nilotica and mozambique talipia.
Where are you located? Ken Hale
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| Message 7 |
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Subject: Re: CO2 Enrichment
From: Mike Strates
Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 07:55:10 +1000
On Sat, Aug 14, 1999 at 09:54:04AM -0400, Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
wrote:
> I've been doing some research on the subject of CO2 enrichment of the
> growing environment. Reasearch indicates that increasing the CO2 in a
> growing environment can increase yields from 30-40%. One experiment
> showed increases of 100%.
35% is an achievable result for most home carbon dioxide enrichment schemes.
I'd be inclined to think that the person boasting a 100% increase in growth
to:
a) have got his facts wrong
b) a blantant liar
There is also the problem that he might not have controlled all of the OTHER
variables of the experiment properly. For example, his control plant, or the
one which was not receiving gaseous carbon dioxide enrichment may not have
been getting enough sunlight; water; etc... and hence its growth was
inhibited.
For this experiment to yield the expected "normal" results, you'd need to
use a well-known and well researched plant; for example pinto beans, as used
in a hydroponics document I read quite a long time ago. There was THREE
control plants, ie: plants which were not receiving enrichment, and TWO
plants which were receiving carbon dioxide gas daily.
If you're really interested, it'd be noteworthy to mention that a while ago
on the Russian space station Mir (which incidentially has a very tiny
hydroponic garden), the yields were amazing. This turned out to be a result
of the combination of a potent nutrient solution, and the high pCO2 of the
old station's life support system (remember, station pressure is only
slightly lower than earth normal; but the CO2 is WAY up there compared with
ppmO2 of around 350 on earth). But I digress .....
> Unfortunately the equipment requirements and constraints are high,
> requiring a closed cgreenhouse. This makes it impractical for some of
> us who are not in a postion to provide significant cooling capabilities.
Cooling, quite frankly - shouldn't be a problem. If you've got an under the
house/basement area near your greenhouse, you can rig up a heat exchanger
which will cool the greenhouse using the cool under the house area.
> The formula is:
> 1 Tablespoon 35% H2O2
> 1 Tablespoon finely ground Lecithin
> 1 Tablespoon Blackstrap Molasses
> Normal dose of Seaweed Extract
> organic or chemical fertilizer
I still recommend people invest in a closed greenhouse, and provide CO2
enrichment using a gas burner type system. Although this may be more
expensive to setup, it works out cheaper in the long run.
Cheaper biological methods like having large buckets of slowly fermenting
bakers yeast and sucrose lying around; or even compost piles may work well
enough to provide the small amount of enrichment you're looking for. -Mike
--
Mike "Skyfox" Strates ; www.croftj.net/~mstrates
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| Message 8 |
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Subject: Nitrate Poisioning
From: Mike Strates
Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 07:57:46 +1000
Hey Folks,
It appears from the document below that nitrates are only poisonous to young
infants, and not to adults? Is this true.... nitrates were the major concern
in the development of my swimming pool. If this is correct, then I don't
have to worry about them? Yes? -Mike
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Linkname: Nitrate Awareness: A Health Issue
URL: http://www.wqa.org/Technical/Nitrate-Awareness.html
[quoting small section...]
Nitrates which are ingested by infants or young farm animals changed
into dangerous nitrates, which can seriously affect the blood's
ability to release oxygen. Once these nitrites enter the circulatory
system, they combine with the blood's hemoglobin and prevent
life-sustaining oxygen from being carried to body tissues.
Nitrates and Hemoglobin
Hemoglobin is the part of the red blood cell which distributes oxygen
to the body's cells. Under normal conditions, the hemoglobin is an
efficient transporting mechanism, easily releasing oxygen to the
cells. However, infants less than three months of age have nitrate
reducing bacteria in their digestive systems. These bacteria convert
nitrates to nitrites, which bind strongly with blood hemoglobin and
prevent sufficient oxygen transport in the baby. Shortness of breath,
susceptibility to illness, heart attack, or even death by asphyxiation
can result. By age six months, hydrochloric acid concentrations in the
stomach rise, killing the the nitrate reducing bacteria. Nitrates are
therefore not a concern in older children and adults.
--
Mike "Skyfox" Strates ; www.croftj.net/~mstrates
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| Message 9 |
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Subject: Hydrogen Peroxide
From: Peggy & Emmett
Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 19:53:46 -0400
A sterilizing agent, which apparently kills most pathogens, can be made up
of a 50/50 mixture of store bought hydrogen peroxide and vinegar.
go:www.sciencenews.org
go:1998-99issues
go:May98
go:issue 5/30/98 Soy.....
go:scroll down to: Wash resistant bacteria taint food.....
Em
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| Message 10 |
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Subject: Nitrate and Other Forms of Art
From: "TGTX"
Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 20:25:39 -0500
Let's look at this a little closer. Being an official Weird-O water quality
kinda guy with strange combinations of analytical chemistry, toxicology, and
aquaculture under my belt, I must say that one of my pet peeves is the
common use of the terms "nitrates", "nitrites", and "phosphates" when
referring to water chemistry.
Nitrate is NO3. Nitrite is NO2. There is no such thing as "nitrates"
(plural) when referring to the dissolved ion present in water. As an ion,
in solution, there is only nitrate. Same goes for nitrite. I am not sure,
but I suspect that the terms "nitrates" and "nitrites" must have originated
in the common vernacular from the preservatives in meats which might have
been used - for example sodium, potassium, calcium nitrate or nitrite might
have come to be referred to collectively as "nitrates", or "nitrites"
etc???....
Same for phosphate, really. The old designation for phosphate in solution
was orthophosphate (PO4). Old limnology papers refer to meta or poly
phosphate, and then there is the designation for organic phosphorus, with
the whole amount of phosphorus in its various forms referred to as "Total
phosphorus" which would amount to referrences for ortho-P plus "meta- or
poly" P, plus organic P being eventually referred to as the "phosphates",
supposedly. But I digress.
Nitrite in drinking water at about 1 ppm (1 mg/L) can potentially cause
methemoglobinemia or "blue baby" syndrome in human infants. That is the
USEPA conservative guideline. This syndrome can happen because NO2 (nitrite)
can impair the ability of hemoglobin to take up oxygen. (By the way, the
hemocyanin respiratory pigment in crustaceans is less effected by nitrite
than is hemoglobin, but, NO2 can still be toxic or at least stressful to the
"crusties" at higher concentrations- depending on the species- that can be
from 0.5 to 15 ppm) Nitrite rarely accumulates to above 1 ppm in most
natural environments where humans are exposed- even in groundwater samples-
for the most part.
Nitrate can climb pretty high in groundwater where the surrounding farmland
is heavily fertilized, but at natural or background levels, expect to see
about 0.5 to 2 ppm of nitrate in groundwater, just from nature. This is
fine and drinkable and AOK.
Nitrate at very high levels (10 ppm or higher) in drinking water can
potentially cause blue baby syndrome in human infants because the gut
bacteria in infants can convert some of the nitrate in their drinking water
to nitrite.
Nitrate up to hundreds of ppm does not present a toxicity problem for fish
or humans or livestock, given certain exceptions. The general rule is not
to let cattle drink water with more than 100 ppm of nitrate for a prolonged
period of time, and further, to use extra caution for herds with calves, for
the same reason as for human infants- as they are just getting their gut
flora and fauna established and then you have the same nitrate to nitrite
conversion problem in the gut of the new moo moos..
For crustaceans, you may find reduction in growth and stress at 100 to 200
ppm nitrate (NO3). That stress, combined with other stressors, can make the
difference. Important differences. God awful differences. Been there. Saw
it happen. Got the T shirt.
Luckily, as Aquaponikers, we don't settle for bacterial biofilters alone to
handle the problem of nitrogenous waste We use vascular plants, combined
with some partially anoxic microzones and perhaps some algae in the system
to assimilate all forms of nitrogen coming from the fish and feed. All
forms of inorganic nitrogen- ammonia (NH4), nitrite (NO2), and nitrate (NO3)
can be assimilated by the plants and algae. The small anoxic zones in our
systems can also take out NO3 through denitrification by converting it to
nitrogen gas (N2)- usually by means of Pseudomonas denitrificans or the
like.
I would not worry about nitrate in recirculation aquaculture until it hits
100 ppm- for tough animals. And keep ammonia below 0.1 to 0.2 ppm and
nitrite below 0.2 to 0.5ppm in "tough animal" aquaculture (ie. carp,
tilapia, crustaceans) Keep those same inorganic N's much lower for
"delicate animal" aquaculture- (which would be the salmonids and the
centrarchids and the percids for the most part.)
If you can keep nitrate in your aquaponics systems somewhere between 5 and
50 ppm, then you will probably be AOK. This is a balancing act you want the
nitrogen flowing to your plants, but you don't want it accumulating. Thus
the componet ratios, relative biomasses, and operating conditions are
critical and become like unto a work of art.
Rules of Thumb.
Ted
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| Message 11 |
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Subject: Nitrates in drinking water
From: "TGTX"
Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 20:26:19 -0500
Here is some info on nitrate/nitrite in drinking water.=20
Ted
http://yuma.acns.colostate.edu/Depts/CoopExt/PUBS/CROPS/00517.html
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