Aquaponics Digest - Tue 09/21/99
Message 1:
from
Message 2: Re: organic certification Hawaii aquaponics and permaculture
from Gordon Watkins
Message 3: Tilapia Levity
from "TGTX"
Message 4: Re: Re: tilapia origin
from "Barry Thomas"
Message 5: Re: Tilapia Levity
from "Barry Thomas"
Message 6: Re: Tilapia Levity
from Marc & Marcy
Message 7: Re: Tilapia Levity
from "James Bell"
Message 8: Re: Tilapia Levity
from "TGTX"
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Subject:
From:
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 14:19:15 + 5 EST
Any theories on why when I feed floating pellets to my tilapia the resulting
feces tends to sink and
the fact that when I feed sinking pellets to them, the feces tends to float?
Just wondering if anyone
had a clue as to why this happens>???????
Mike
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Subject: Re: organic certification Hawaii aquaponics and permaculture
From: Gordon Watkins
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 17:42:36 -0500
Kevin,
Regarding the cost/benefits of certification, it all depends on your
marketing plans. Certification is nothing more than a marketing tool. If
you plan to sell direct to your cutomers, I doubt if the effort and
costs of certification could be justified. Besides, the relationship you
develop with your customers allows you to educate them about your
production practices, even invite them to participate, which is much
more convincing and meaningful than a certificate.
Certification becomes more important (and soon to be legally
required in the US) when you distance yourself from the consumer by
selling to a broker, distributor, wholesaler, or retailer. Then
certification creates an audit trail and is a way to assure that the
organic integrity of your product is not compromised after it leaves
your hands, by a trucker fumigating his load for example. Certification
assures the consumer that your product was handled properly at every
stage from your farm to their grocery basket.
Our farm has been certified since 1980 and currently costs me about
$500 a year plus the headache of paperwork. I sell fruits and vegetables
across the country and certification is required by ALL of our buyers,
without exception, so I have no choice if I want to sell into those
markets. I also sell locally at farmers markets, PYO, our roadside
stand, and via subscriptions. Certification may add a little credibility
to our local marketing, but our customers who care about organic
production ask pertinent questions and visit our farm, so certification
is irrelevant to them. Unfortunately, I can only sell about 10-15% of my
products locally because I live in a low income, low population area, so
I must ship the bulk of my product, therefore certification is a
necesary evil for me. Like I said, it all depends on your marketing
plan.
Gordon Watkins
KevinLReed wrote:
> Back to the question about organic farming ... remember? ... I
> wanted to know what the group thinks about organic certification. Is
> it worth the time and money to certify as organic? I am interested in
> you thoughts.Kevin --
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Subject: Tilapia Levity
From: "TGTX"
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 18:51:36 -0500
> Any theories on why when I feed floating pellets to my tilapia the
resulting feces tends to sink and
> the fact that when I feed sinking pellets to them, the feces tends to
float? Just wondering if anyone
> had a clue as to why this happens>???????
> Mike
Tilapia in the Middle East are known as St. Peters fish, as it is native to
the Jordan River and the Sea of Galilee and, it is thought to be the fish
that St. Peter fished for.
Both Jesus and St. Peter (with Jesus's help) walked on the water in the Sea
of Galilee.
Based on your Tilapia feed observations and the aforementioned feats of
levitation and antigravity, it may be that Tilapia are designed by the
Creator to act as biochemical-electromagnetic-gravitational lenses.
Or not.
Next time you are playing with a laser beam, try passing one by a live
Tilapia. If the deflection of the beam is greater than that predicted by
Albert Einstein for light beams traversing a local space time curvature due
to mass, then we have confirmation...of something.
Or not.
Tedzo.( * )
One who walks with two feets of levity, and a head full of gravity.
(So I guess that means I float upside down, unless accompanied by Tilapia).
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Subject: Re: Re: tilapia origin
From: "Barry Thomas"
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 01:02:33 +0100
> There's just as much waste from capture fisheries.
Bearing in mind the damage that has been and still is done by capture
fishing, this isn't the most reassuring of statements. ;)
Seriously, I believe aquaponics to be far better. Most of the waste
produced comes only from the fish you actually want, leaving other
species and their habitat relatively unmolested. This must become less
true though if people go around dumping thousands of tons of carcasses
in holes in the ground.
> You can extract protein
> and oil from fish offal. In aquaponics there doesn't have to be any
waste. A
> portion of the dissolved waste nutrients goes to hydroponic plants.
The
> remainder along with solid waste (sludge) can be applied to land and
> recycled. The fish carcasses can be composted and recycled. This is
an
> ideal.
I agree with all you say. The kind of system Marc described in this
thread seems to cover most of these and shows that we can go some good
way towards ideal already. Just wondered how much of it actually goes
on. It seems to be mainly small to medium sized outfits which actually
attempt to do something meaningful with their "waste". Is this wrong?
> However, often commercial operations cannot afford ideals. They
> must obey the laws of economics, the great leveler. Recycling of
byproducts
> other than dissloved nutrients may not be economical.
There are greater levellers. Physics is one of them and, observing its
laws, it is difficult to see any system which throws away nearly two
thirds of the energy it has managed to store (as fish) from the various
sources applied to it over the previous nine(?) months as particularly
efficient or sustainable. When the stuff you throw away also degrades
other resources...
So, IMO a system like this (though sound by the laws of economics)
actually contributes nothing - it is a parasite.
This, of course, refers to bad systems whose intentions have nothing to
do with food production and a well designed aquaponic setup with decent
recycling is a different thing.
> The nutrient waste
> from hydroponics can also be recycled, so no difference there. What
is an
> advantage, despite the obvious ones that have been discussed
repeatedly, is
> that you are raising high quality protein. You've jumped a few
counters
> over in the supermarket from the salad section.
You've also jumped a few steps away from the sun. In addition, it seems
that you must put quite a lot of protein into the fish before you have a
chance of getting any back? Does the quality of the protein obtained in
this way make it worthwhile?
> Let's face it. We all love
> hydroponics, but successful commercial hydroponic crops are somewhat
> limited. When you view the produce department at the supermarket, not
all
> that many items are raised hydroponically. Raising fish adds a
wonderful
> new dimension and hopefully we can add more fish species to our
aquaponic
> arsenal. At least now you have better balanced aquaponic meal. We
just
> need a starch. Rice grows well in aquaponic systems if you want to
strive
> for the ideal. Jim R.
Agree with all this too but am trying to work out whether it's best to
look to hydro or aqua as a primary, low impact method of food
production.
I have been looking for info on rice in hydro/aqua systems, do you - or
anyone else - have any info or links to info on this? Also still looking
for info on direct comparisons between system types if anyone knows of
any.
Thanks,
Barry
barrythomas@btinternet.com
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Subject: Re: Tilapia Levity
From: "Barry Thomas"
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 01:24:39 +0100
> Based on your Tilapia feed observations and the aforementioned feats
of
> levitation and antigravity, it may be that Tilapia are designed by the
> Creator to act as biochemical-electromagnetic-gravitational lenses.
I had thought it a cunning solution by feed manufacturers to ensure
hygienic feeding practises - somewhat disapointed to hear that it is
merely a miracle of Creation. :)
Barry
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Subject: Re: Tilapia Levity
From: Marc & Marcy
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 19:31:26 -0600
> Tedzo.( * )
> One who walks with two feets of levity, and a head full of gravity.
> (So I guess that means I float upside down, unless accompanied by Tilapia).
A floater? Eh? :>
Marc
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Subject: Re: Tilapia Levity
From: "James Bell"
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 21:24:54 -0400
I would love to see some of the genetics you are growing and
consuming
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Subject: Re: Tilapia Levity
From: "TGTX"
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 21:19:05 -0500
> A floater? Eh? :>
> Marc
Marc, I learned long ago that the claim that "cream rises" (in this old
world) might be far surpassed by the well known fact that "scum
floats"...(speaking of levity and the like)
Alas, we have diverged from the semi-serious to the sociological.....
Y'all have a good weekend.
Tedzilla.
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