Aquaponics Digest - Sat 10/02/99
Message 1: Re: DE
from Mike Strates
Message 2: Re: Bacteria innoculants
from "Sam Levy"
Message 3: Re: Bacteria innoculants
from "TGTX"
Message 4: Re: Bacteria innoculants
from marc
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| Message 1 |
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Subject: Re: DE
From: Mike Strates
Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 15:02:04 +1000
On Fri, Oct 01, 1999 at 10:03:28AM -0500, Donna Fezler wrote:
> The issue may be the difference in handling between food grade and
> non-food grade. Then again, maybe it is just the label. Anyone?
It sounds like the Aviation vs. Welder's oxygen. Essentially both come from
the same factory, and go through the same process... the only difference is
the label (and the amount of tax applied to it.)
Then again, I might be wrong...
--
Mike "Skyfox" Strates ; www.croftj.net/~mstrates
Phone: +613-9440-5778; ICQ #47663425. Exercising my freedom of flight.
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| Message 2 |
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Subject: Re: Bacteria innoculants
From: "Sam Levy"
Date: Sat, 02 Oct 1999 12:59:54 PDT
Ted,
the exposition was well thought out & interesting as usual. just a reminder
that anaerobic zones besides converting no3- to n2 gas may also reduce
sulfur compounds or ions (like so4--) to hydrogen sulfide gas (h2s)which is
extremely toxic to fish although i have no idea how it would effect plants.
i believe the sulfur reducers are often controlled by insuring an adequate
carbon source.
it has always seemend to me important to not forget some of the unpleasant
possibilities of anaerobic digestion.
sam
From: "TGTX"
>Subject: Re: Bacteria innoculants
>Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 20:20:43 -0500
>
>
>My raving taut has often been that anaerobic microzones are important in
>nitrogen and other nutrient recycling schemes
>
>Ted.
>
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Subject: Re: Bacteria innoculants
From: "TGTX"
Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 16:15:21 -0500
> Ted,
>
> the exposition was well thought out & interesting as usual. just a
reminder
> that anaerobic zones besides converting no3- to n2 gas may also reduce
> sulfur compounds or ions (like so4--) to hydrogen sulfide gas (h2s)which
is
> extremely toxic to fish although i have no idea how it would effect
plants.
>
> i believe the sulfur reducers are often controlled by insuring an adequate
> carbon source.
>
> it has always seemend to me important to not forget some of the unpleasant
> possibilities of anaerobic digestion.
>
> sam
Sam,
Of course small zones of anoxia produce H2S. Reduced species such as H2S,
methane, and mercaptans are all stinky semi-toxic bog chemicals. But, like
boogers and earwax, and other aspects of natural reality, they serve a
purpose in cycling and shunting sulfur, carbon and other elements/materials
It's a QUESTION OF BALANCE....as the Moody Blues might say.
H2S production takes place in sediments of every river, lake, and
aquaculture fish pond, below the oxidized layer. Differences in degree seem
to be the most important differences within ecosystems. Take a sediment
core of the most oxidized, pure stream or river you can think of....high
quality water with little organic matter, little nutrients, crystal
clear.....take a very close look....just below the oxidized zone is a
beautiful boundary zone that goes from brown to grey to black....and below
that..we witness a layer of rancid, anoxic, putridness. It serves as a
nutrient sink...but also a "time- released" nutrient pump back up to the
oxidized zone and it does some rather remarkable things with nitrogen,
sulfur, and phosphorus, not only locally but gobally.
Our brave and vigorous champions, the aquatic vascular plants, send roots to
the edge of that boundary and just beyond it in an act of what can only be
thought of as bold and risky business to mine the resources of that nutrient
bank. They exude humic and fulvic acids and other conventient secondary
byproducts of there metabolism, and thus sequester the materials needed from
the "nutrient bank". The same kind of thing happens in agricultural soils
to a degree. Isn't that beautiful? I really admire and respect that. They
are willing to get their roots dirty in order to make a living. Working
class plants- you gotta love that.
Think of the "repugnant" stuff that takes place in the cycle from fresh
food.. to the mouth.. through the intestine to the ...uh...compost bin or
sewer....Herman Hesse wrote a novel entitled "Beneath the Wheel" in which
the protagonist spoke of "terrible beauty". I read that novel as a kid and
I have never have forgotten that phrase when I think of ecosystem or
physiological processes!
As I said before, the anoxic microzone is just that..."micro"...and we are
in a world of hurt if oxygen does not prevail as the dominant factor
throughout most of the system...or should I say if oxidizing conditions do
not prevail in our system. The small amounts of H2S generated in the
scenario I have described become rapidly oxidized, or "sparged" from the
system though various water/atmospheric interfaces...Don't you agree?
We should all remember that every cell in our bodies MUST maintain REDUCTIVE
pressures within the cell, while importing limited quantities of oxygen for
respiration....If the internal environment of every cell of our bodies
suddenly were oxidized, cells would die....Oxygen is toxic at certain levels
of concentration within the cell! We must maintain the proper fuel to
oxidizer mix inside the cells to "Keep on Choogling" as John Fogerty would
sing...It's all about smoldering without going to conflagration on the one
hand...or complete anoxia on the other.
Life is Dangerous. Isn't that Great?
Ted
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Subject: Re: Bacteria innoculants
From: marc
Date: Sat, 02 Oct 1999 21:03:42 -0600
> My raving taut has often been that anaerobic microzones are important in
> nitrogen and other nutrient recycling schemes- Hmmm..... I guess it's mo'
> betta to say "important, and convenient, but perhaps not absolutely
> essential". Like the lawyers say "It depends".
Hi Ted!
In my readings at the University of Colorado library I came upon a graduate
paper on an lake/pond/puddle purposefully constructed to take advantage of this
phenomena.
This was a few years ago so my legendary incredibly photographic memory is a
bit fuzzy, like an exploded down pillow, but I recall the lake/pond/puddle was
pretty good size, an acre or five or something like that. The reasoning was
that the lake/pond/puddle would develop anaerobic zones in the lake bed and when
the nitrate laden water traveled through these zones they would be diminished.
The results indicated the anaerobic zones were not consistently produced so some
parts of the lake bed were unpopulated with anaerobic zones. Consequently the
water treatment, in terms of nitrate reduction, was not high enough to warrant
this technique for predictable wastewater treatment. Major bummer for the
anaerobic puddle industry.
The zones that did occur did a great job. The areas that did not have anaerobic
zones were, of course, like not much fer doin the nitrate lessening thing.
How about "Doo or doo not but compost doo doo".
Marc
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