Aquaponics Digest - Sun 10/31/99
Message 1: Re: Snail Biocontrol - FYI
from "Sam Levy"
Message 2: QuantumPonics machine
from "Dale Robinson"
Message 3: Re: [tilapia] Pacu (was An interesting discussion)
from dreadlox@cwjamaica.com (michael kent barnett)
Message 4: Re: ammonia and aquatic plants
from "TGTX"
Message 5: Re: QuantumPonics machine
from "Jewel" <1mastiff@amigo.net>
Message 6: Where in Virginia
from PWGARDENS
Message 7: Re: QuantumPonics machine
from "TGTX"
Message 8: Weight of water
from Brian Gracia
Message 9: Re: growing Bass/ vermiculture
from VermiPlex
Message 10: Re: growing Bass/ vermiculture
from VermiPlex
Message 11: Re: vermiculture
from VermiPlex
Message 12: Re: Weight of water
from PDOSSJR
Message 13: Re: vermiculture
from Marc & Marcy
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Subject: Re: Snail Biocontrol - FYI
From: "Sam Levy"
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 00:01:48 PDT
black carp can also be used for snail control--although i don't know how the
fish would treat the plants
sam
>From: "Charlie Shultz"
>
>Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 05:02:27 PDT
>
>
>Anyhow, after introducing 5 small fish (10g) the snails had dissappeared
>within 4-5 days. Next I introduced 2 fish/trough and within 1 week even
>one
>snail was had to find.
>
>
>More results as they develop,
>Charlie
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Subject: QuantumPonics machine
From: "Dale Robinson"
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 12:12:25 -0800
Hi All,
I was given a QuantumPonic machine to try out. I very much wanted to see it
work because I was working out a deal to manufacture them in the U.S.A..
I have tried it in three different tests and did not get any positive
results.
It is my opinion that the QuantumPonic machine does not work.
The requested changes to the system were done to both the test group and the
control group. Both made the same improvements in growth.
Dale Robinson
mwhydroponics@worldnet.att.net
Http://home.att.net/~mwhydroponics/
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Subject: Re: [tilapia] Pacu (was An interesting discussion)
From: dreadlox@cwjamaica.com (michael kent barnett)
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 19:45:06 -0800
Can someone fill me in... are Pacu bottom feeders?
That would take care of a lot of the sludge from a aquaponic sys wouldnt
it..
When I was looking for Pacu with a search engine I remember just getting
fragmented bits of information, has any grower in the last say 6 months
compiled a paper on them, or know of a cool site where I can find same?
Ta, Mike
Gordon Watkins wrote:
>
> From: Gordon Watkins
>
> I have polycultured red pacu and tilapia in a small aquaponic system and found
> them to be compatible and easily raised together.
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Subject: Re: ammonia and aquatic plants
From: "TGTX"
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 13:23:00 -0600
> Ron,
> I thought watercress did best in cool waters and tilapia does best in
> warm water. Aren't they incompatible?
>
> Adriana
>From my experience, Nope.
Watercress was very vigorous in my system, in the summer of '98, in Texas
for crying out loud!
Ted
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Subject: Re: QuantumPonics machine
From: "Jewel" <1mastiff@amigo.net>
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 15:34:33 -0600
Hi group,
I feel I need to address this. I have received emails from Mr. Robinson, and
according to what the US distributor told me how the machines were to be
used, Dale was using the machines all wrong. He also seems to have
developed a sort of vengence about the product and company, and doesn't want
to try duplicating my successful experiments ( I have the emails if anyone
would like to see them). But basically, the unit has a sort of probe that
goes in your nutrient resevoir, and is made to charge nutrient solution.
Instead, he burried his probe in his root zone for one experiment, and for
the other, while he did place it in nutrient solution, it was too little (I
was told you must charge at least 5 gallons, or it will kill the plants). I
understand his frustration and anger because he alleges he was told
differently, but any further experiments could be contaminated by a negative
viewpoint. Scientists know that the attitude of an experimenter can totally
effect the outcome of an experiment, which is why they do "double blind"
studies. I started mine that way, by having my son do the watering of the
charged and control plants, without him knowing what he was doing or why, so
he wouldn't effect the outcome by having expectations one way or the other.
I have since started another experiment with lettuce seed I got from Adriana
(so she will be familiar with it). One tray gets charged nutrient, one gets
nutrient, and one gets just charged water with no nutrient. As of now, the
charged nutrient tray is clearly superior, and surprisingly, the plain
charged water is next best, with the nutrient group running third. They're
still young, and I expect that when the lettuce gets more mature, it
shouldn't be able to survive without nutrient, but we'll see. I also
started a batch using the autopot, and it's doing better than all three.
We all need to keep an open mind if we are to make the most of advancements.
I'm sure the first people attempting to do hydroponics were told it wouldn't
work by some people. S&S was told their aquaponics system wouldn't work.
Jewel
----- Original Message -----
From: Dale Robinson
To:
Sent: Sunday, October 31, 1999 2:12 PM
Subject: QuantumPonics machine
> Hi All,
> I was given a QuantumPonic machine to try out. I very much wanted to see
it
> work because I was working out a deal to manufacture them in the U.S.A..
> I have tried it in three different tests and did not get any positive
> results.
> It is my opinion that the QuantumPonic machine does not work.
> The requested changes to the system were done to both the test group and
the
> control group. Both made the same improvements in growth.
>
> Dale Robinson
> mwhydroponics@worldnet.att.net
> Http://home.att.net/~mwhydroponics/
>
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Subject: Where in Virginia
From: PWGARDENS
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 17:45:37 EST
Charlie
I live in the Shenandoah Valley of Virginia. We are not far off of I-81 in
Harrisonburg. If you would like to stop by E-mail me and I will give you my
phone number.
I have a hydroponic tomato greenhouse with 400+ plants starting to yield
this week. A friend and I are getting ready to start raising several
thousand Tilapia as soon as we can get the setup ready. Next comes the fun
part - working at combining the two operations.
Marlan
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Subject: Re: QuantumPonics machine
From: "TGTX"
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 18:10:14 -0600
Jewel wrote
>But basically, the unit has a sort of probe that
> goes in your nutrient resevoir, and is made to charge nutrient solution
This "sort of probe"...uh, are we talking electrolysis here? A cathode or
anode perhaps? What do you mean by..."is made to charge (the) nutrient
solution?"
What kind of charge are you referring to?
> differently, but any further experiments could be contaminated by a
negative
> viewpoint. Scientists know that the attitude of an experimenter can
totally
> effect the outcome of an experiment, which is why they do "double blind"
> studies.
Whoa there. Hold the phone there.
Most agricultural experiments are NOT set up as double blind studies.
Double blind studies are used almost exclusively in clinical or medicinal
research because psychological expectations of the "patients" receiving the
placebo or new drug are known under certain circumstances to have small
statistical influences on the outcome of tests in which very small
differences in treatment vs. non treatment are being examined. These
differences include the way they describe or report their feelings or their
impressions of the effectivenes of the drug or placebo that they have been
"treated" with.....and, granted, sometimes their blood pressure or stomach
acid can be affected by the way they think about the experimental medicine
they think they are being tested with, or if they think they received a
placebo, then the recipients mental attitude can affect reports .If the
technicians adminstering the clinical trial know which is the "real"
experimental drug, and which is the placebo, then they could subconsciously
convey certain signals to the people receiving the experimental treatment,
and thus introduce unwanted psychosomatic or psychological effects that
would mask very subtle differences in treatment.
This is very differenent from what you are inferring. The plants either are
or are not taking up more nutrients.... and they either are or are not
growing faster based on some treatment effects from this QuantumPonics probe
thingy which has not been TECHNICALLY described in any post to this group
that I am aware of.
> We all need to keep an open mind if we are to make the most of
advancements.
> I'm sure the first people attempting to do hydroponics were told it
wouldn't
> work by some people. S&S was told their aquaponics system wouldn't work.
>
> Jewel
O.K. sounds good, I can agree with that. But I would remind you that the
hydroponics and aquaponics experiments....trials and errors....and
successes... can generally be explained and we can point to the process at
various steps and discuss it and generally describe it in terms that most
folks can understand, and that most folks can repeat or read about or add
onto in their own time and efforts, based on efforts that went before.
Therefore, we talk about dissolved oxygen, light, protein, redox potential,
total dissolved salts, electrical conductivity, pH....that sort of thing.
But when we talk about "charge" and just leave it at that, shouldn't we
know clearly what that means so that we can talk about it, and shouldn't we
know what, if any, difference there is between this special "technology"
that you have experimented with, and, say more commonly experienced and
developed technologies in the areas of electricity, magnetism, pressure,
etc? In other words, if this technique is in fact different and new, can
you explain how it is so different and why it works?
It occurs to me that Dale did well in that he tried something out, he wanted
it to work, and then he reported the results of his efforts. He said that
he really wanted this gadget to work. This tells me that his expectations
and efforts in and of themselves would NOT have resulted in a negative
effect, I think, even if you believe in the secret life of plants, or even
if you believe that agricultural experiments should be conducted with the
extraordinarily strenuous efforts of the double blind approach to avoid any
subtle psychological effects. If I have to be in a certain, particular
mood or mind set to start my car or effectively use a shovel to dig dirt in
the garden, then I guess I am in a world of hurt, cause that sort of thing
changes by the hour.
No, Dale reported dispassionately, it seems to me. He tried it out, using
experimental and control plant groups, and he reported his results to us, it
seems, without any malice or any other pre-conceived notions going into it.
Thanks Dale.
That's my take on it.
Ted
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Subject: Weight of water
From: Brian Gracia
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 21:04:53 -0600
Hello Everyone,
Does anyone know the weight of water per ft3. I am designing a tank and
stand for a experiment in aquatics for personal reasons. It is to test a
theory on a small scale before going commercial one day.
TIA,
Brian
********************************************
Better Produce through Better Control
********************************************
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Subject: Re: growing Bass/ vermiculture
From: VermiPlex
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 22:18:57 EST
If you want info on growing worms go to Vermiplex.com
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Subject: Re: growing Bass/ vermiculture
From: VermiPlex
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 22:20:49 EST
Info on growing worms at Vermiplex.com
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Subject: Re: vermiculture
From: VermiPlex
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 22:27:11 EST
We at Vermiplex.com have built worm incubators, see our web site at
vermiplex.com
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Subject: Re: Weight of water
From: PDOSSJR
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 22:32:42 EST
Weight of water, cubic foot = 62.42796 lbs.
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Subject: Re: vermiculture
From: Marc & Marcy
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 21:14:20 -0700
VermiPlex wrote:
>
> We at Vermiplex.com have built worm incubators, see our web site at
> vermiplex.com
The continued and repeated messages from this company are a
classic example of spam. I have reported these people to the
AOL abuse server at AOL.com
Marc S. Nameth
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