Aquaponics Digest - Wed 11/03/99
Message 1: Re: Cinnamite for aphids
from Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Message 2: Re: Cinnamite
from Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Message 3: Afidz?
from Bill
Message 4: Re: Afidz?
from Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Message 5: Re: Afidz?
from "Donald W. Trotter"
Message 6: Re: Cinnamite
from "Donald W. Trotter"
Message 7: Re: Afidz?
from Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Message 8: Re: Afidz?
from Dave Miller
Message 9: Re: Afidz?
from William Evans
Message 10: Re: Cinnamite for aphids
from Marc & Marcy
Message 11: Pyrethrins (was Re: Afidz?)
from Gordon Watkins
Message 12: Scale Control
from Gordon Watkins
Message 13:
from
Message 14: Re:
from "Bill Knowlton Well Drilling, Inc."
Message 15: talapia
from dbenhart@essex1.com (David Benhart)
Message 16: Re:
from Gordon Watkins
Message 17: Re:K supplementation
from William Evans
Message 18: Aphid controls, was Re: Cinnamite for aphids
from S & S Aqua Farm
Message 19: Re: Cinnamite
from Gordon Watkins
Message 20: Re: talapia
from S & S Aqua Farm
Message 21: General bug-out.
from Bill
Message 22: Re: talapia
from dbenhart@essex1.com (David Benhart)
Message 23: Re: [tilapia] Pacu (was An interesting discussion)
from Ronald Polka
Message 24: Re: Cinnamite for aphids
from "Jewel" <1mastiff@amigo.net>
Message 25: Re: Afidz?
from "Jewel" <1mastiff@amigo.net>
Message 26: Ladybugs from Gardens Alive, was Re: Cinnamite for aphids
from S & S Aqua Farm
Message 27: Re: Cinnamite for aphids
from "Jewel" <1mastiff@amigo.net>
Message 28: Re: Cinnamite for aphids
from Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Message 29: Cinnamite Toothpicks
from Bill
Message 30: Re: Aphid controls, was Re: Cinnamite for aphids
from Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Message 31: Re: Afidz?
from Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Message 32: Re: Cinnamite Toothpicks
from Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Message 33: Re: Aphid controls, was Re: Cinnamite for aphids
from S & S Aqua Farm
Message 34: Re: Pyrethrins & Cinnamite
from S & S Aqua Farm
Message 35: Re: Aphid controls, was Re: Cinnamite for aphids
from "Wendy Nagurny"
Message 36: And Now... Presenting...
from Bill
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Subject: Re: Cinnamite for aphids
From: Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 03:16:43 -0500
Ladybugs, yes, they fly away
Lacewings, yes, they disappear
Pyrethrins, yes
Rotenone, yes
Naturalis, yes
Garlic-pepper-mint tea, yes
Lasers???? Tell me more
I'd like to nuke them - talk about irradiated food!
Adriana
> This is probably a stupid suggestion, because knowing you you've probably
> tried just about everything, but have you tried ladybugs? Lasers?
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Subject: Re: Cinnamite
From: Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 03:31:43 -0500
Hi Dave, blowing aphids away works on individual leaves after they have
been cut. I've tried blowing the growing beds with air and water and
the leaves get flatened and matted down and don't recover. Part of the
reason for my current outbreak is that in early October I was still
overseeding to compensate for germination loses I had experienced due to
out summer heat. Suddenly I got 100% germination and the plants were
incredibly dense-packed, making it almost impossible to penetrate with
sprays.
Adriana
>
> Has anyone ever tried a hair blowdryer to remove aphids? I'm not kidding
> here. Blow them away with air and heat.
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Subject: Afidz?
From: Bill
Date: 3 Nov 99 01:06:24 PST
Hello everyone. My name is Bill, and I grow aphids.
>hello bill
Tired as heck, so forebearance is appreciated... & Thx to Bagelhole1 for =
the
turn-on to this site. And to his great site.
1) I hear 'too dense for sprays.' I take it this is an Eco-site, & we m=
ean
eco-friendly sprays.
Is it Chrysanthemums, which have the natural pyrethins?
2) I was told a banana peel (at the base, I think,) keeps them away, (on=
ce
gone?)
3) Water too much humidity prob's, in greenhouse,... yet,
4) I hear "a, b, & c fly away...? In greenhouse, or not?
As for sprays poor, due to denseness... (& what is cinnemite, or I'll fin=
d the
link to the archives & read it,?)
=2E..and explosives... you're close.
The fire dept uses this principle in a new 'weapon.' It 'shoots',
'explosively,' a small water burst (and I mean 'burst,' for use in a car,=
say)
that is only a pint or so of water. Really snufs. Take your chosen
eco-friendly powder, (NOT TOO MUCH!!! Even FLOUR is explosive when just =
the
'right mix' and airborne!!!) and 'explode it, for 'propagation.' Use a l=
ady
finger, or a 'can' of compressed air, in 'bursts,' the smaller the better=
=2E =
Small enuf' microbursts can be used even between dense folage (in general=
) w/o
harm. And if you've got 'too many' already...
Make 'salad' of them (If non poisonous, 'natch!)
Reminds me. My Cinnamon toothpicks should be about ready... ;>)
Bill OOWON@Netscape.net from the not too sunny SF Bay Area, CA
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Subject: Re: Afidz?
From: Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 04:17:40 -0500
> Is it Chrysanthemums, which have the natural pyrethins?
Yes, pyrethrins are derived from chrysanthemums
> 2) I was told a banana peel (at the base, I think,) keeps them away, (once
> gone?)
Never heard that one, not practical ina 3,000 sq ft greenhouse
> 4) I hear "a, b, & c fly away...? In greenhouse, or not?
Yes ladybugs and lacewings fly away in a less than perfectly contained
greenhouse, starting with a 100 ft long ridge vent. At some point in
the future I plan to seed beneficial attractants around the entire
periphery of the gh
> As for sprays poor, due to denseness... (& what is cinnemite, or I'll find the
> link to the archives & read it,?)
Check the link in the original post of this thread
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Subject: Re: Afidz?
From: "Donald W. Trotter"
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 02:12:47 -0800
Yeah,
I heard the Afidz in concert once. They were followed by the Antz that
cleaned up after them. The punk band Sooty Mold was present but didn't have
enough time to perform due to rain.
I heard that Pyrethrins is playing at the Hollywood bowl with Neem and
Rotenone. The Chemical Brothers may show up but weren't invited.
I really think the best of the companion bands for anyone interested in the
vibe are the Lacewings aka. Chrysoperla spp. I haven't figured out who spp.
is but they are a graceful band with beautiful golden eyes and their young
just wipe out the Afidz. They just love the warmth of those Green Houses.
Grow some Dill Weed (that band from Umbelliferae). You can get the
Lacewings to perform indefinitely if you let the Dill stay on stage all the
way through the blooming encore.
Musically natural,
Don
"Vocabulary is no substitute for intellegence"
Trotterism
Two years on this list, still a lurker with periodic bouts of engagement.
Jewel, you should stay. Don't let psuedo scholars dampen your enthusiasm.
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Subject: Re: Cinnamite
From: "Donald W. Trotter"
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 02:19:11 -0800
>Adriana
>>
>> Has anyone ever tried a hair blowdryer to remove aphids? I'm not kidding
>> here. Blow them away with air and heat.
>
>
Yes,
We refer to it as "Cell Burst Technology"
However you need to watch out for the biology with cell walls as well. Heat
cooks.
With Iron-e
Don
"Pissing into the wind is a poor substitute for a waterfall"
Trotterism
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Subject: Re: Afidz?
From: Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 07:14:51 -0500
Thanks Donald,
I love your sense of humor, kelp and molasses also tried out for that
band and failed. I should have planted beneficial attractants at the
greenhouse on day one. I tried growing Sweet Alyssum for that purpose
and it wasn't happy in the high heat and humidity. Now I'm in catch-up
(clean-up) mode. I will plant dill in quantity asap.
Adriana
> Grow some Dill Weed (that band from Umbelliferae). You can get the
> Lacewings to perform indefinitely if you let the Dill stay on stage all the
> way through the blooming encore.
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Subject: Re: Afidz?
From: Dave Miller
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 08:50:14 -0500
Don't forget the band groupies the Parasitic WASPS and the Beneficial
Nematodz.
I wonder what it would be like if we all met in one room. Awesome!
Dave
_______________________________________
«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
A remodeler, drummer, Kindred Spirit...
Put a pebble in your pocket and a penny in your shoe!
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Subject: Re: Afidz?
From: William Evans
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 06:40:52 -0800
"Donald W. Trotter" wrote:
>
> Yeah,
>
> I heard the Afidz in concert once.
I think the red hot chile peppers need an encore.....
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Subject: Re: Cinnamite for aphids
From: Marc & Marcy
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 07:38:23 -0700
We have used soap/water mix to dry the little suckers out.
if the mix doesn't drip from the leaves do you suppose it
would work in an aqua hyro ponics situation?
I read a story about a member of the French royal court, a
princess I think, that had a little cannon crafted for her
and she would shoot tiny little cannon balls at fleas.
Marc
Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta wrote:
>
> Ladybugs, yes, they fly away
> Lacewings, yes, they disappear
> Pyrethrins, yes
> Rotenone, yes
> Naturalis, yes
> Garlic-pepper-mint tea, yes
>
> Lasers???? Tell me more
>
> I'd like to nuke them - talk about irradiated food!
>
> Adriana
>
> > This is probably a stupid suggestion, because knowing you you've probably
> > tried just about everything, but have you tried ladybugs? Lasers?
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Subject: Pyrethrins (was Re: Afidz?)
From: Gordon Watkins
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 09:07:01 -0600
Be sure to distinguish natural pyrethrum and pyrethrins derived from
chrysanthemums from synthetic and highly toxic pyrethins (pyrethroids).
Also, since this is an aquaponic list and most of us are producing fish
along
with our plants, everyone should understand that, like rotenone, pyrethrum
is HIGHLY
toxic to fish and even small amounts in aquaculture systems can result in a
rapid
and total fish kill.
Gordon Watkins
Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta wrote:
> > Is it Chrysanthemums, which have the natural pyrethins?
> Yes, pyrethrins are derived from chrysanthemums
>
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Subject: Scale Control
From: Gordon Watkins
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 09:09:51 -0600
Has anyone had success using beneficials for controlling scale
insects in the greenhouse, cottony cushion scale in particular? I have a
recurring problem with it on my citrus.
TIA,
Gordon Watkins
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Subject:
From:
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 11:25:46 + 5 EST
Hi All,
Anyone have thoughts on sprinkliong bone meal into the beds of our aquaponic
syste. to add a bit of potassium for
our tomatoes that are showing deficiency? We just want to make sure it
won't negatively affect our fish!
Mike
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Subject: talapia
From: dbenhart@essex1.com (David Benhart)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 11:28:51 -0800
how do I subscribe to talapia mailing list?
Dave Benhart
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Subject: Re:
From: Gordon Watkins
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 11:49:12 -0600
I think that bone meal will supply mostly calcium and phosphorus. A better
source of organic potassium would be
greensand or granite dust, although I'm not sure what the effect on the
aquaculture component might be.
Gordon Watkins
MCOMET@south-lewis.moric.org wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> Anyone have thoughts on sprinkliong bone meal into the beds of our
aquaponic syste. to add a bit of potassium for
> our tomatoes that are showing deficiency? We just want to make sure it
won't negatively affect our fish!
> Mike
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Subject: Re:K supplementation
From: William Evans
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 10:11:18 -0800
got a kelp "foliar"?????lotsa K ,+minors+dont know how would impact
growbed chemistry , tho would guess minimal upset max benefit
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Subject: Aphid controls, was Re: Cinnamite for aphids
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 12:37:27 -0600
At 03:16 AM 11/03/1999 -0500, Adriana wrote:
>Ladybugs, yes, they fly away
>Lacewings, yes, they disappear
>Pyrethrins, yes
>Rotenone, yes
>Naturalis, yes
>Garlic-pepper-mint tea, yes
Adriana, we've had good luck using a combination of methods for aphid
control. Once you're heavily infested, drastic measures are required to get
things back into a "manageable" balance, but it is possible.
Dill as an attractant for lacewings is a good step. It also serves as a
great place for their egg laying. While the green lacewings we purchased
did not fare well in our humid environment, we found many native volunteers
(a brown lacewing) taking up the slack. But in order to provide them with
"housing", you'll have to have some longer term crops than your lettuces
provide.
Because the life cycle of ladybugs and lacewings takes more time that the
quickly reproducing aphids, they'll need a less-disturbed area than lettuces
- pepper and tomato leaves seemed to be preferred in our greenhouse.
Nasturtiums grown as a trap crop also worked well. Aphids seem to prefer
them over many other crops, and cutting out sections of that planting is not
so disastrous as cutting back your lettuces, as the nasturtiums will regrow
very quickly. Nasturtiums seem to thrive on mistreatment anyway :)
Parsley also seemed to be preferred by the aphids, and again, it's a crop
that can be cut back drastically to remove any heavily infested areas with
the assurance that the plants will regrow marketable growth fairly quickly.
And you'll have to work to keep the ant population down. If you completely
eliminate them before the aphids are being managed, you'll end up with sooty
mold on all your plants, choking the life out of peppers and tomatoes just
as surely as the aphids were.
Paula
PS: After reading all the aphidz follow-up, I'm beginning to think I just
take life too seriously.
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Subject: Re: Cinnamite
From: Gordon Watkins
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 12:34:08 -0600
The product safety data indicates, "This product may be toxic to fish."
Gordon Watkins
Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta wrote:
> Has anybody tried Cinnamite for control of aphids and mites? see
> http://www.mycotech.com/new/. It's made by Mycotech, the company that
> makes Botanigard. The company literature looks promising.
>
> Adriana
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Subject: Re: talapia
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 12:48:21 -0600
At 11:28 AM 11/03/1999 -0800, you wrote:
>how do I subscribe to talapia mailing list?
>Dave Benhart
>
The tilapia mailing list serves as a global forum for discussion between
professionals actively involved in the culture, processing and marketing of
tilapia. Types of culture systems addressed include extensive, semi-intensive,
intensive and super-intensive.
You can join this list by going to the following web page:
http://www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/tilapia
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Subject: General bug-out.
From: Bill
Date: 3 Nov 99 11:21:16 PST
No, I'm not unsubbing, yet...
But the Afidz, geez doodz!! (& dudesses!)>)
Ask for a chord, and get a whole orchestra!!!
People tell ME i'm intellectuel, boring & no fun. Jewel (whoever you are=
,)
these guys are soooo far above me, AND below me, that there HAS to be roo=
m for
us somewhere. You're part of the mental eco-system here. Make like fly
paper, and ... (do I have to say it?____) And with any heavy 'meal', the=
re's
always room for Jewel! ;>) =
The original 'thread' I'll have to chase down, but 3000 sq ft! Wow. I'm=
not
growing on a fire escape tho', I'm glad. And finaslly a use for dill...
besides nasty pickles. I prefer mine sweeter.
Could cheesecloth be put over the vents and allow enif' airflow by convec=
tion
to contain the nice bugs?
And I like the kelp idea. Bone has calcium... a base. Like dolomite, ma=
y
drive pH. BUT it does (I've read) migrate very little, depending on your=
'soil' medium. That's why they say to incorporate IT, when bed is preppe=
d. =
Check your pH...
Bill OOWON@Netscape.net
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Subject: Re: talapia
From: dbenhart@essex1.com (David Benhart)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 14:13:33 -0800
Thank-You
Dave Benhart
Shore Acres Greenhouse
S & S Aqua Farm wrote:
> At 11:28 AM 11/03/1999 -0800, you wrote:
> >how do I subscribe to talapia mailing list?
> >Dave Benhart
> >
> The tilapia mailing list serves as a global forum for discussion between
> professionals actively involved in the culture, processing and marketing of
> tilapia. Types of culture systems addressed include extensive, semi-intensive,
> intensive and super-intensive.
>
> You can join this list by going to the following web page:
>
> http://www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/tilapia
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Subject: Re: [tilapia] Pacu (was An interesting discussion)
From: Ronald Polka
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 14:12:44 -0700
At 07:45 PM 10/31/1999 -0800, you wrote:
>Can someone fill me in... are Pacu bottom feeders?
>
>That would take care of a lot of the sludge from a aquaponic sys wouldnt
>it..
>When I was looking for Pacu with a search engine I remember just getting
>fragmented bits of information, has any grower in the last say 6 months
>compiled a paper on them, or know of a cool site where I can find same?
>
>Ta, Mike
>
>
>Gordon Watkins wrote:
>>
>> From: Gordon Watkins
>>
>> I have polycultured red pacu and tilapia in a small aquaponic system and
found
>> them to be compatible and easily raised together.
>
Mike
To reply to your question about Pacu being bottom feeders I have had one
for about three years now and have never observed him feeding off the
bottom. He has been trained to take floating pellets so that may have
something to do with it. Most of the time he is quite lazy and just acts
like a submarine in the tank but he has on occasion gone ballistic. A year
ago I had a 12" bullhead catfish disappear overnight from the tank, and
that is with a net stretched over the top. On another occasion two large
channel cats died mysteriously. And a month ago he killed a 4 lb koi, took
bite sized chunks out of its fins. I have also had small tilapia vanish
from the tank. So one never knows with this guy. He is currently more than
2 ' long, weight unknown but heavy, probably more than 10 lb. His
aggressiveness may be due to the small tank, it is only 350 gal, he would
probably be friendlier in a large tank.
Ron Polka
Southwest Technology Development Institute
New Mexico State University
Box 30001, Dept 3SOL
Las Cruces, NM 88003
rpolka@nmsu.edu
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Subject: Re: Cinnamite for aphids
From: "Jewel" <1mastiff@amigo.net>
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 14:43:50 -0700
>
> Lasers???? Tell me more
Just kidding, although you could check with dentists and the military on
that one. Maybe an aphid attack dog.
Seriously, how about sealing the greenhouse better so the ladybugs can't fly
away (or bring in some gentlemen bugs to keep them entertained).
>
> I'd like to nuke them - talk about irradiated food!
>
> Adriana
>
>
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Subject: Re: Afidz?
From: "Jewel" <1mastiff@amigo.net>
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 14:52:57 -0700
Adrianna, have you tried those "no seeum" wasps I've heard about?
Jewel
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Subject: Ladybugs from Gardens Alive, was Re: Cinnamite for aphids
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 15:50:41 -0600
At 02:43 PM 11/03/1999 -0700, Jewelwrote:
>Seriously, how about sealing the greenhouse better so the ladybugs can't fly
>away (or bring in some gentlemen bugs to keep them entertained).
We have always screened our greenhouse, but had problems keeping ladybugs in
until we ordered the Stay-At-Home ladybeetles supplied by Gardens Alive.
They're bred indoors so don't have the terrible urge to find the outside as
soon as they're released.
http://www.gardens-alive.com/
Paula
S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO 65775 417-256-5124
Web page http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
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Subject: Re: Cinnamite for aphids
From: "Jewel" <1mastiff@amigo.net>
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 14:55:17 -0700
Adrianna - another idea - have you tried dusting them with diatomacious
earth?
Jewel
> > Ladybugs, yes, they fly away
> > Lacewings, yes, they disappear
> > Pyrethrins, yes
> > Rotenone, yes
> > Naturalis, yes
> > Garlic-pepper-mint tea, yes
> >
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Subject: Re: Cinnamite for aphids
From: Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 17:26:27 -0500
Marc,
M-Pede and Murphys aren't cutting it either - I tell you these are
SUPERBUGS! If you could order me up about a million of those miniature
cannon balls I'll try them:>). Actually, I found a local supplier who
had Cinnamite in stock - it smells fabulous! I'll be spraying it
tomorrow and will report back on its effectiveness.
Adriana
> We have used soap/water mix to dry the little suckers out.
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Subject: Cinnamite Toothpicks
From: Bill
Date: 3 Nov 99 14:36:19 PST
Keeps reminding me of the cinnamon toothpicks which are soaking... tho'
cinnamon oil MAY hurt sensitive plats, too, & other hassles, like fish gi=
lls.
>found a local supplier who
had Cinnamite in stock - it smells fabulous! spraying
tomorrow and report on effectiveness.
> We have used soap/water mix to dry the little suckers out.
But was ABOUT to say "Safer" Insecticidal Soap, Safewr Inc, Newton, Ma...=
but
altho' 2% Potassium salts of fatty acids, nothing else... & fish are gene=
rally
OK w/brackish water, to a degree, (some can co back and forth,) it mau be=
worth testing it on feeder fish in a representative amount, & saving them=
, if
they seem distressed. 5 feeders, 5 control group, two salad bowls.
Bill
____________________________________________________________________
Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://webm=
ail.netscape.com.
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Subject: Re: Aphid controls, was Re: Cinnamite for aphids
From: Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 17:42:26 -0500
Thanks Paula,
Drastic measures began this week - major tear-out!
> Once you're heavily infested, drastic measures are required to get
> things back into a "manageable" balance, but it is possible.
I've started a "beneficial attractant border in the gound at the back of
the greenhouse. Sweet alyssum went in a couple of weeks ago, Queen
Anne's Lace went in today. I've got dill seed on order and will be
transplanting some basil plants that I was planning to tear out.
Instead I'll let them go to flower to feed and house the good guys.
> Dill as an attractant for lacewings is a good step. It also serves as a
> great place for their egg laying.
I've heard that aphids love fuscia plants but I haven't been able to
find any in our area. Gordon Creaser said they used to spray the fuscia
with some really nasty stuff which would kill them when they moved in.
I'll put some sacrificial nasturtiums into my border area as an
alternative.
> Nasturtiums grown as a trap crop also worked well.
How do you keep the ant populatin down???
> And you'll have to work to keep the ant population down.
I loved the musical bent to this thread. Thanks to Donal Trotter for
setting the tone (get it?)
> PS: After reading all the aphidz follow-up, I'm beginning to think I just
> take life too seriously.
Adriana
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| Message 31 |
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Subject: Re: Afidz?
From: Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 17:53:21 -0500
Jewel,
What variety of wasps are you referring to? I've tried trichogramma
wasps but they are for armyworms and cut worms. Is there another one?
I'm not spending any more $ on beneficials until I have my attractant
border built up really well.
Adriana
> Adrianna, have you tried those "no seeum" wasps I've heard about?
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| Message 32 |
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Subject: Re: Cinnamite Toothpicks
From: Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 17:56:27 -0500
Bill and all,
Fortunately I don't have fish so I'm not as constrained as the rest of
you guys. M-Pede is the same as Safer Soap - they laughed at me!
>
> But was ABOUT to say "Safer" Insecticidal Soap, Safewr Inc, Newton, Ma... but
> altho' 2% Potassium salts of fatty acids, nothing else... & fish are generally
> OK w/brackish water, to a degree, (some can co back and forth,)
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| Message 33 |
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Subject: Re: Aphid controls, was Re: Cinnamite for aphids
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 16:51:18 -0600
At 05:42 PM 11/03/1999 -0500, Adriana wrote:
>Thanks Paula,
>How do you keep the ant populatin down???
>> And you'll have to work to keep the ant population down.
Tom mixes a paste of boric acid and molasses, then spots it around the ant
trails. I think the purpose is for them to return with it to the nest and
share it, then many die. It is effective in eliminating the ants which
would bring in more aphids. Then again, once the ants leave there's nothing
to "milk" the aphids secretions, and I believe that's when the problems with
sooty mold can begin.
It's another catch-22 - you'll need to time it so you have enough predators
(ladybugs?) to handle the aphid population (or cut down the aphid population
to what your predators can support. At that time, eliminate the ants from
replenishing the aphid supply. But if you have trap crops, you can support
enough aphids to keep the ladybugs fed and reproducing. It's definitely a
delicate balance, but one that we've found acceptable in our greenhouse. I
think some of my most intriguing times were spent observing the ladybugs in
their various stages, and actually being able to monitor the activites all
the books described.
Paula
S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO 65775 417-256-5124
Web page http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
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| Message 34 |
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Subject: Re: Pyrethrins & Cinnamite
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 16:55:18 -0600
I wanted to repost these messages from Gordon so that everyone is reminded
of the dangers/problems associated with some methods of insect control.
What might be acceptable to an hydroponic grower, is not necessarily
applicable in an aquaponics systems without consequences. Didn't want to
debate the pros and cons of organic growing methods at this point, but I
didn't want these posts to get lost in the humor of the "Aphidz" posts.
At 09:07 AM 11/03/1999 -0600, Gordon wrote:
> Be sure to distinguish natural pyrethrum and pyrethrins derived from
>chrysanthemums from synthetic and highly toxic pyrethins (pyrethroids).
> Also, since this is an aquaponic list and most of us are producing fish
along
>with our plants, everyone should understand that, like rotenone, pyrethrum
is HIGHLY
>toxic to fish and even small amounts in aquaculture systems can result in a
rapid
>and total fish kill.
>
> Gordon Watkins
>
>Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta wrote:
>
>> > Is it Chrysanthemums, which have the natural pyrethins?
>> Yes, pyrethrins are derived from chrysanthemums
AND
re Cinnamite:
>Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 12:34:08 -0600
>From: Gordon Watkins
>Subject: Re: Cinnamite
>The product safety data indicates, "This product may be toxic to fish."
>
> Gordon Watkins
>
>Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta wrote:
>
>> Has anybody tried Cinnamite for control of aphids and mites? see
>> http://www.mycotech.com/new/. It's made by Mycotech, the company that
>> makes Botanigard. The company literature looks promising.
>>
>> Adriana
S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO 65775 417-256-5124
Web page http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
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| Message 35 |
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Subject: Re: Aphid controls, was Re: Cinnamite for aphids
From: "Wendy Nagurny"
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 18:36:13 -0500
If you keep ladybugs, you should keep dishes of ladybug food scattered
around your greenhouse or garden. The ladybugs prefer live food, but will
eat the prepared food when the pest population subsides. This will keep a
happy, healthy ladybug population all the time.
Wendy
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| Message 36 |
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Subject: And Now... Presenting...
From: Bill
Date: 3 Nov 99 15:36:06 PST
>I loved the musical bent to this thread. Thanks to Donal Trotter for
setting the tone (get it?)
Yes, donald really took that one and , uh, er, 'ran' away with it! Kudo'=
s!
> PS: After reading all the aphidz follow-up, I'm beginning to think I =
just
> take life too seriously.
aphidz... 'Afidz!' Spell the name right! :>(
With hair dryers and all, I really got blown away by you-all... for a sma=
ller
plantation, a vaccuum will work. They tend to be in the small, delicate =
new
growth, where it's hard to reach them with many means, as was noted, when=
you're very densely packed, but the new young growth is at the tips. Wit=
h
3000 sq ft, you could use flying fish. You've enough room for a runway. =
Well, how about lungfish, then?
Ladybug food is sweet! No wonder they like Afidz! (Gotta show Don's (et=
=2E
al.) post to my 14 yr old Metalica fan!)
Bill
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