Aquaponics Digest - Fri 11/05/99
Message 1: Neem concentration
from Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Message 2: Re: Magnetic Fields
from "TGTX"
Message 3: Re:Magnetic Fields
from Peggy & Emmett
Message 4: Re: Magnetic Fields
from Gordon Watkins
Message 5: OT ..... Magnetic Fields and Aphidz, in all seriousness...
from William Evans
Message 6: list and tomatoes!
from
Message 7: Re: Magnetic Fields
from Marc & Marcy
Message 8: unsubscribe
from Debra Russell
Message 9: Re: Magnetic Fields
from "Jewel" <1mastiff@amigo.net>
Message 10: Re: list and tomatoes!
from S & S Aqua Farm
Message 11: Re: list and tomatoes!
from "Jewel" <1mastiff@amigo.net>
Message 12: Bone Meal (wAS Re: list and tomatoes!)
from Gordon Watkins
Message 13: Re: Bone Meal (wAS Re: list and tomatoes!)
from William Evans
Message 14: Re: Bone Meal (wAS Re: list and tomatoes!)
from "Jewel" <1mastiff@amigo.net>
Message 15: Re: list and tomatoes!
from MUDDTOO
Message 16: Aphidz, in all seriousness...3000 sq ft of them
from Bill
Message 17: bonemeal & tomatoes!
from Bill
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 1 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Neem concentration
From: Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 02:43:55 -0500
I had checked into neem products from my local supplier and it was in
the $100+ range. There is a farm in Hawaii selling cold-pressed neem
oil on-line for $27 a quart. They recommend a 1 to 1.5% dilution. Does
anybody have the technical information on how to determine neem
concentration?
Adriana
> For those of you looking for something to control those little creatures you
> may want to check out AZATIN XL.
> Hydrogardens sells it--$150 per Qt. Exspensive stuff but it is consentrated
> - a Quart will make about 200 gallons of spray.
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 2 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: Magnetic Fields
From: "TGTX"
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 03:45:24 -0600
Marc,
Correction:
>
> For example, could you hold forth on the subtle nuances of rotating
> synthetic apertures?
> Does that have anything to do with microwave klystrons or polarized
magnetic
> fields or something? Carrier waves? Electromagnetic resonant cavities?
What I meant to say....instead of polarized magnetic fields....was
"circularly polarized" microwave generation which I have a hard time
defining 'cause I dont know piddly about it, but it sure sounds cool, to me
at least
Heuristically,
Ted
(P.S.: Have fun at the Small Farm Conference...would you grace us with a
report, or did I just reveal a secret mission?)
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 3 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re:Magnetic Fields
From: Peggy & Emmett
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 09:06:38 -0500
Marc, I see a problem. A 100 FRN substrate might not give you eutectic
bonding but instead a toroidal reversal which would preclude a null field.
You might be better served using a A672 Frazenstat oscillator. Emmett
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 4 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: Magnetic Fields
From: Gordon Watkins
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 08:31:10 -0600
I must have suffered a "torid reversal" myself. Could someone please remind me
again what this discussion has to do with aquaponics?
Gordon
Peggy & Emmett wrote:
> Marc, I see a problem. A 100 FRN substrate might not give you eutectic
> bonding but instead a toroidal reversal which would preclude a null field.
> You might be better served using a A672 Frazenstat oscillator. Emmett
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 5 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: OT ..... Magnetic Fields and Aphidz, in all seriousness...
From: William Evans
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 06:54:54 -0800
Captain ,the refrangellated Emigdilator's not responding!!!
On second thoought I offer these old posts to another list as ppossible
areas of new study for us green thumbs...
Callahan, Studies on the Shootborer Hysipia grandella (Zeller) (Lep.,
Pyraliadae), XIX, The Antenna of insects as as Electromagnetic Sensory
Organ, Turrialba, vol. 23, no. 3, pp 263-274, (1973).
Callahan, Moth and Candle: THe Candle Flame as a Sexual Mimic of the
Coded Infrared Wavelengths from a Moth Sex Scent (Pheromone), Applied
Optics, vol. 16, No. 12, pp. 3089-3096, (1977).
Callahan, et al., Mechanism of Attraction of the Love bug, Plecia
neartica, to Southern Highways: Further eVIDENCE FOR THE ir-dIELECTRRIC
wAVEGUIDE tHEORY OF iNSECT oLFACTION, aPPLIED opTICS, VOL. 24, No. 8,
pp. 1088-1093, (1985).:)
Callahan, Nonlinear Infrared Coherent Radiation as an Energy Coupling
Mechanism in Living Systems, Molecular and Biological Physsics of Living
Systems, pp.239-273, (1990).
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------
Paramagnetism is a measurable physical force detailed in
any physics textbook, but Phil Callahan was the
first researcher to link this energy with plant growth.
Using primitive, labour intensive measuring techniques, Dr
Callahan was able to prove that fertile soils have high
paramagnetic levels, while this energy is not present in
poor soils. Volcanic rocks were identified as a major
source of paramagnetism, and Callahan has proven
that crushed volcanic rocks, basalt and granite in
particular, are a valuable component in the fertility equation.
Callahan's research has effectively put a name to a
phenomenon identified over a century earlier in chemist
Julius Hensel's landmark work "Bread from Stones".
However, Dr Callahan's great contribution to sustainable
agriculture is not just the identification of this
secret force in plant growth, it is his invention (with two
colleagues) of an affordable instrument to measure this
force. The invention of the PCSM may well prove
to be a milestone in the history of agriculture. Growers
can virtually monitor and adjust their own soil
fertility with the aid of a PCSM, and they now have the
unique opportunity to test their local quarries for crusher
dust fertiliser that could prove to be a gold mine on
their doorsteps.
Australian company Boral appears to have allocated
extensive resources to research into paramagnetism.
They have apparently increased prices of crusher dust
from some of their quarries that reveal high PCSM
readings, and a new fertiliser based on paramagnetism
appears imminent.
There is an inextricable link between soil microbes and
paramagnetism, and this link is particularly relevant
when we combine crusher dust or lava fines with
microbes. The synergy is spectacular: The paramagnetism
stimulates the multiplication of beneficial microbes,
which in turn solubilise the broad-spectrum mineral
components of the rock dust, thereby remineralising and
revitalising tired, worn out soils.
Laboratory data from American research suggests that
very finely crushed, highly paramagnetic materials can,
in relatively small quantities, increase microbial
activity three-fold. This is test-tube evidence, and it is a far
more complex scenario in the soil, but the potential is
undeniably exciting.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 6 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: list and tomatoes!
From:
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 11:14:58 + 5 EST
Hi!
Can anyone tell me when this list serv is going to get away from hydroponics
and back to aquaponics?
Maybe it is just me, but I was under the impression that this group was for
those of us who grew fish AND
plants - not just plants!!! Am I totally wrong? Apologies if I am wrong in
this.....
Also, since I got very few responses.... Will sprinkling bone meal on my
gravel beds to supplement my
tomatoes have any negative effects on my fish?
Mike
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 7 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: Magnetic Fields
From: Marc & Marcy
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 08:36:09 -0700
TGTX wrote:
>
> (P.S.: Have fun at the Small Farm Conference...would you grace us with a
> report, or did I just reveal a secret mission?)
No secret mission Ted! When Marc called late last night
upon his arrival in Columbia he asked me to post a message
to the group that he'll rejoin the discussion when he
returns Sunday. I don't remember that there were any
sessions specifically related to aquaponics, however I'm
sure Marc would be glad to provide a brief overview and then
anyone interested in more specifics can contact him
directly.
Marcy
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 9 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: Magnetic Fields
From: "Jewel" <1mastiff@amigo.net>
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 10:24:52 -0700
Geeez, I hope Marc doesn't reply to that. It was hard enough to read the
original post.
Jewel
----- Original Message -----
From: TGTX
To:
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 1999 7:49 PM
Subject: Re: Magnetic Fields
> Marc wrote:
>
> > Several schemes immediately pop into my mind.
> >
> > Is it using feedback from a radiated field to create
> > rotating synthetic apertures and automatically adjusting the
> > standing wave ratio so maximum power transfer may be
> > obtained by satisfying the complex conjugate matching of
> > generator and load? This scheme could also lend itself to
> > detect surrounding gradients in the nutrient solution but
> > would require a range minimum gating to preclude aliasing
> > and the associated false inputs to the feedback loop.
> >
> > Is it a resonant parallel LC circuit with a parallel
> > resistive element such as a RN100 style MIL STD from, say
> > CADDOCK?, utilizing eutectic bonding with a 60 to 100 mil
> > FRN substrate? The overdamped resonating element could be
> > driven by an integrated circuit non-symmetrical free running
> > oscillator such as the NE555 with a non-symmetrical duty
> > cycle also if another 555 is used to phase modulate the
> > gating with a periodic ramp. The FMR ramping could be used
> > to detect velocity changes but would suffer range
> > ambiguities but a heuristic approach could define operation
> > limits and as long as the boundaries of the control arena
> > were not violated UNDER a certain limit an increase that
> > could lead to a phase change could be controlled with this
> > scheme.
> >
> > Certainly it could align the various molecules with a very
> > high magnetic gradient and give an RF pulse of, let's say, a
> > few milliseconds so as to measure the precession of the
> > molecules sensitive to the frequency of the RF pulse. This
> > technology was common in the late 70's. The noise threshold
> > or baseline could be a problem but with the new developments
> > in digital signal processing AND low noise MMIC's the state
> > of the molecules could be determined and the magnetic field
> > could be modulated between sensor scans until the desired
> > state of charge in the water is achieved
>
> Marc,
>
> I can only hope that you, Marc.. of all people... are not hyper-sensitive
or
> violently allergic to the following viscious, unfriendly, unobjective
attack
> and the profoundly negative, derisive, back stabbing, shoot you in the
back
> blurb, which up until recently might have passed for common, everyday
> banter, discussion, journalistic debate, and social parlance, (but.... who
> can tell when the long standing paradigm of meaning and reason are being
> de-constructed, in which the verb "said" becomes rationalized as tacit
> approval, while the verb "claims" becomes..... the very heart of
> darkness...)
>
> So...venturing far out there on the cybersocial limb...and taking a grave
> risk ....I must say...."Whoa There, Marc, Hold the Phone".
>
> Anyway..you know this post up there ^ of yours was kinda like drinkin'
water
> out of a firehose. You..... Radio Shack Cowboy! But I like the reference
> to the heuristic approach, since that is what this discussion group is all
> about, so we must press on.
>
> Since I don't have a string of PhDs and apparently can't tell bad science
> from TRUE SCIENCE, or from other excavations in the ground, could you jus'
> 'splain some of that there lingo to this old fool on the hill?
>
> For example, could you hold forth on the subtle nuances of rotating
> synthetic apertures?
> Does that have anything to do with microwave klystrons or polarized
magnetic
> fields or something? Carrier waves? Electromagnetic resonant cavities?
>
> And what about this eutectic bonding stuff you're ranting about, old man?
> Now, are you talkin' about Glauber salts doin' funny (Gibb's free energy)
> phase change things which become even more peculiar under some kinda
> electric field, (like a capacitor or cappatery) or are you talkin about
some
> kinda macroscopic quantum effect...such as the Casimir effect or the
> like.....that only you and a handful of Coloradoans know about...and just
> won't tell us directly without a great deal of hand waving, bribing, and
> other rude gestures on our part?
>
> When you refer to measuring the procession of molecules sensitive to RF
> frequency, are you talkin' about NUCLEAR MAGNETIC RESONANCE, or somethin'
> technical like that? Or are you talking about the surface effect that
> calcium carbonate colloids and montmorillonite colloids might experience
> when subjected to intense magnetic fields/ flux lines parallel to
hydraulic
> flow in pipes, such that the altered zeta potential of the colloids
passing
> by.... thereafter alter the process of chemical precipitation of calcium
> carbonate, changing the kinetics and reversability/equilibrium balance and
> crystallization rates to the point that scale build up in pipes and hot
> water heaters are significantly altered? So that we all ought to all go
out
> and buy a GMX magnetic water conditioner?
>
> Or not?
>
> Just curious.
>
> Ted
>
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 10 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: list and tomatoes!
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 11:24:23 -0600
At 11:14 AM 11/05/1999 EST, Mike wrote:
>Hi!
>Can anyone tell me when this list serv is going to get away from
hydroponics and back to aquaponics?
>Maybe it is just me, but I was under the impression that this group was for
those of us who grew fish AND
>plants - not just plants!!! Am I totally wrong? Apologies if I am wrong
in this.....
It is for aquaponics, Mike, but we've a lot of people in transition (or
considering transition) from either the hydroponics or aquaculture side, so
we'll see lots of posts specific to each type system. And if there's too
much conversation on hydroponics alone, maybe it's because we just have a
better group of folks to talk with than some other lists:>)
The answer, of course, is to post questions that take the conversations back
where they apply to the things you want, and that's what you've done below.
>Also, since I got very few responses.... Will sprinkling bone meal on my
gravel beds to supplement my
>tomatoes have any negative effects on my fish?
I'm certainly not the bone meal expert here. I'd nominate Gordon Watkins
for that, but his mail has been bouncing from his new server lately, and I
don't know if this will get through or not. You might try a direct email to
him "Gordon Watkins" or
"Gordon Watkins"
and see if you can get a response. If he's having trouble posting to the
group, perhaps you could post his reply for all of us.
Bone meal, from the comments I've seen on other lists, could be used; but
I'd try to check the affect it might have on your overall system. It would
do no good to use it to supplement one nutrient, only to have it react with
your current nutrient levels in a negative way. I think the fish should
have no problem from it. And I'd be extra sure of your source to be certain
you're not adding some unwanted "nasties" into your fish.
Now, that's sufficiently vague to bring out those who have more specific
knowledge, I'd think. What is it you hope to accomplish by adding the bone
meal?
Paula
PS: (If you do get through, have him let me know which address should be
used, please.)
S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO 65775 417-256-5124
Web page http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 11 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: list and tomatoes!
From: "Jewel" <1mastiff@amigo.net>
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 10:52:47 -0700
> >Also, since I got very few responses.... Will sprinkling bone meal on my
> gravel beds to supplement my
> >tomatoes have any negative effects on my fish?
>
I think it would be great if anytime a pest control or nutritional additive
is suggested by someone in the group, that our knowledgeable aquaponics
members, Paula, or anyone who knows how fish will react, would automatically
respond regarding its effect on fish. Even if it's "I don't know how it
might affect the fish". It would be very helpful in deterring possible
serious mistakes.
Jewel
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 12 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Bone Meal (wAS Re: list and tomatoes!)
From: Gordon Watkins
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 12:31:00 -0600
Hi Mike,
Your original posting referred to using bone meal to treat a potassium
deficiency. I doubt it will do much for that condition. It's typically used on
tomatoes for blosson end rot which is caused by a calcium deficiency. As I
indicated earlier, bone meal will supply calcium and phosphorus, but little if
any potassium. As to the effect of bone meal on fish, I 've never used it myself
so I can't say for sure, but my guess is that large quantities could stimulate
an algae bloom due to elevated P levels. The best way to find out would be to
set up a test aquarium with tilapia and see what happens. Isn't your setup in a
classroom environment? If so, this would be an excellent experiment for your
students. P test kits are cheap and available at pet stores so you could add a
measured amount of bone meal, test the dissolved P levels, and see what happens.
Let us know what you find out.
Also, a caveat regarding bone meal: I have pretty much discontinued the use
of bone meal on field crops due to suggestions that its use was connected to
Creutzfield-Jacob disease, the human equivalent ot Mad Cow. In Britain a number
of rose growers contracted the incurable and fatal disease and the common
denominator was their use of bone meal on their flowers. In this country, it's
now prohibited to feed ruminants feeds containing bone meal for fear of
transmitting the mad cow disease.
Gordon Watkins
S & S Aqua Farm wrote:
> At 11:14 AM 11/05/1999 EST, Mike wrote:
> >
>
> >Also, since I got very few responses.... Will sprinkling bone meal on my
> gravel beds to supplement my
> >tomatoes have any negative effects on my fish?
>
> I'm certainly not the bone meal expert here. I'd nominate Gordon Watkins
> for that,
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 13 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: Bone Meal (wAS Re: list and tomatoes!)
From: William Evans
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 10:57:16 -0800
it willl boost N as well.
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 14 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: Bone Meal (wAS Re: list and tomatoes!)
From: "Jewel" <1mastiff@amigo.net>
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 12:01:47 -0700
Wow, that's some heavy information. thanks for passing that on Gordon.
Jewel
> of bone meal on field crops due to suggestions that its use was
connected to
> Creutzfield-Jacob disease, the human equivalent ot Mad Cow. In Britain a
number
> of rose growers contracted the incurable and fatal disease and the common
> denominator was their use of bone meal on their flowers.
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 15 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: list and tomatoes!
From: MUDDTOO
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 23:42:52 EST
In a message dated 11/5/99 7:13:24 AM Pacific Standard Time,
MCOMET@south-lewis.moric.org writes:
> Can anyone tell me when this list serv is going to get away from
hydroponics
> and back to aquaponics?
> Maybe it is just me, but I was under the impression that this group was
for
> those of us who grew fish AND
> plants - not just plants!!!
Mike - it's just you. Hydroponics and aquaponics are related, with the
source of the nutrient for the plants being the major difference. The hydro
folks control their nutrient levels thru water soluble chemicals and aqua
folks thru filtered fish waste. You may have noticed that the hydroponic
folks, in their plant discussions, use only water soluble chemicals.
Anything else won't be taken up into the plants and will pollute the system.
Aquaponics works in a similar fashion. All solid matter should be filtered
out and the remaining water soluble fish waste is pumped through gravel or
sand beds and consumed by the plants. Adding bone meal (not water soluble)
to half your aquaponics system (the hydroponic part) shouldn't do much more
then pollute both halves with silt. If your tomatoes need more nutrients
then fix it at the fish end. Add more waste generators to the system or
change their diet.
I grow a lot of tomatoes and they like their nutrient strong. It would take
a lot of water soluble fish waste to satisfy a bunch of tomato plants.
Perhaps your tomatoes would grow better planted in the garden with frequent
doses of the solid waste you collected.
Joel
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 16 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Aphidz, in all seriousness...3000 sq ft of them
From: Bill
Date: 5 Nov 99 21:43:19 PST
>>might not give you eutectic bonding
It's eutechtic, I believe... and it's rather close to an oxymoron.
>>better served using a A672 Frazenstat oscillator.
And that oscillator has been obsolete since before it was but a gleam in =
it's
creators misty (read; blurred) eye.
You're going to confuse some who have trouble following this. They may e=
ven
think it a farse.
>>THe Candle Flame as a Sexual Mimic of the
Coded Infrared Wavelengths from a Moth Sex Scent (Pheromone)
The frequency, man! The frequency! Is this the sonic flame speaker, but =
ULF? =
It couldn't be molecular! Not for a bug reception... unless teh pheronom=
e
connection...!
>>that crushed volcanic rocks, basalt and granite
fertility with the aid of a PCSM
Volano dust known for fertility, but then most ash is...
>>Australian company Boral appears to have allocated
extensive resources to research into paramagnetism.
They have apparently increased prices of crusher dust
from some of their quarries that reveal high PCSM
readings, and a new fertiliser based on paramagnetism
This would still have migratory problems, like bone meal. Double dig!
And granite?!? Suspicious... the frequency again... molecular (elemental)=
, or
mixed molocule (compound vibes?)
Bill
Oh, How does this apply someone asked. Fertilizer, which grows plants be=
tter,
and a side effect, (if powered) that may attact beneficials, or repel Afi=
dz.
(If they can hear/smell it.)
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 17 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: bonemeal & tomatoes!
From: Bill
Date: 5 Nov 99 21:52:44 PST
Have seen very little hydroponics, myself.
Fish and bonemeal. I reitterate, it MAY have a slow effect on pH. MAY. =
Are
you using 'soil' with peat etc? Acids can leach bonemeal. But so what..=
=2E If
bonemeal drives pH as dolomite does, and clamshells, acid counteracts. Y=
ou
check pH in any important aquarium, even w/o 'soil' involved.
I think you'd be very safe in adding bonemeal to your tomatoes. But chec=
k
your pH, even if you don't add it. Maybe weekly?
How often do you others check yours? What 'soil' (growing medium) do you=
use?
And I ASSUME you recycle 'soil' drains, back to the 'pond.'
S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO 65775 417-256-5124
Web page http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
|
