Aquaponics Digest - Tue 11/09/99
Message 1: Re: Neem oil
from "Claude Gelinas"
Message 2: Neem oil
from Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Message 3: Cinnamite
from Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Message 4: Re: Neem oil
from Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Message 5: Re: tomatoes! & fish
from Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Message 6: Re: tomatoes! & fish
from "TGTX"
Message 7: Re: Cinnamite
from "Jewel" <1mastiff@amigo.net>
Message 8: Re: Cinnamite
from Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Message 9: UNSUBSCRIBE
from "don"
Message 10: Aquaponics again! (mostly)
from Bill
Message 11: NOT aquaponics
from Bill
Message 12: Re: NOT aquaponics
from Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Message 13: Re: Cinnamite
from "Jewel" <1mastiff@amigo.net>
Message 14: mad aquaponics
from "Jewel" <1mastiff@amigo.net>
Message 15: unsubscribe
from "Donna Fezler"
Message 16: Re: Cinnamite
from Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Message 17: Re: Cinnamite-needa kik it up a notch...
from William Evans
Message 18: Re: Cinnamite-needa kik it up a notch...
from Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Message 19: Aquaponics subscribe/unsubscribe instructions
from S & S Aqua Farm
Message 20: Re: Cinnamite-needa kik it up a notch...
from William Evans
Message 21: Re: Cinnamite-needa kik it up a notch...
from Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Message 22: Re: Cinnamite-needa kik it up a notch...
from "Wendy Nagurny"
Message 23: Re: Neem
from PORTWOODGARDENS@cs.com
Message 24: Re: tomatoes! & fish
from Ronald Polka
Message 25: Re:Re:Re: NOT aquaponics
from Bill
Message 26: Afidz Sprayer?
from Bill
Message 27: Marc, Who won the ater debate?
from Carolyn Hoagland
Message 28: Re:Mad Cow Prions
from Carolyn Hoagland
Message 29: Dioxin
from "TGTX"
Message 30: Mad Cow Prions in Aquacultre'
from Bill
Message 31: Re: Re:Mad Cow Prions
from "TGTX"
Message 32: Re: Marc, Who won the ater debate?
from Marc & Marcy
Message 33: Re: tomatoes! & fish
from steve spring
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| Message 1 |
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Subject: Re: Neem oil
From: "Claude Gelinas"
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 06:18:16 +0000
--PART-BOUNDARY=.19911090618.ZM1430.phyto.qc.ca
Content-Description: Text
Content-Type: text/plain ; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Zm-Decoding-Hint: mimencode -q -u
The Dominican Neem oil have 0.5% active ingredient (azadirachtin) and the=
name
of the product is ACE-Nim EC.
The recommanded dosage is 5 to 10 cc / lt.
Neem can have some phytotoxicity on plant from the legume family so test =
it
before using at large.
Neem oil work as a repellant and antifeedant product mostly on soft body =
insect
and carterpillar. It also affect reproduction and the development of inse=
ct by
inhibiting oviposition and by interfering with larval molt. Also Neem see=
m to
have little effect on most beneficial insect.
It is distributed by:
Instituto Politecnico Loyola
San Cristobal
-- =
=
Claude G=E9linas Agr., D.T.A.
PHYTO Ressources
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Varennes, Qu=E9bec, Canada T=E9l: (450) 652 9764 Fax : (450) 652 6=
182
Des questions sur les insectes et maladies des plantes ornementales ?
Want to know more about ornamental plant pest ?
http://www.phyto.qc.ca
=
--PART-BOUNDARY=.19911090618.ZM1430.phyto.qc.ca--
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| Message 2 |
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Subject: Neem oil
From: Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 06:19:34 -0500
Dave,
Very interesting about Dynagrow prices....email has been sent.
Regarding neem concentration, now we need to know the aza(whatever)
concentration that is normal in unconcentrated neem oil to compare it to
the "conc3entrates" being sold by others. I may be able to get this
info from Aloha Farms.
> All it says on the label is "Active ingredients Neem Oil 100% ". That,
> presumably, means nothing in the bottle except oil just as it came from the
> little Neems.
> By the way, there appears to be one hell of a markup on Dyna-Gro products.
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| Message 3 |
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Subject: Cinnamite
From: Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 06:43:46 -0500
That mad cow disease is nasty stuff, for sure. I think I might have
"Mad Aphid Disease" in my greenhouse...
Let me report on the Cinnamite. They claimed it would kill the aphids
after 6 hours. I went back after 24 and the little buggers were dancing
in a conga line, happier than ever! I was very disappointed with the
lack of effectiveness. Yesterday I treated them to an old standby
which has worked in the past: 1 part Murphys Oil Soap, 1 part alcohol,
9 parts water. Then I threw in a couple of tablespoons of Diatomeceous
Earth to sharpen the brew.
Adriana
> Dis be one bad protein. Maybe Adrianna's cinnamite might
> work?
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| Message 4 |
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Subject: Re: Neem oil
From: Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 06:47:06 -0500
Claude,
Would you by any chance have a telephone # or e-mail?
> It is distributed by:
>
> Instituto Politecnico Loyola
>
> San Cristobal
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| Message 5 |
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Subject: Re: tomatoes! & fish
From: Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 06:53:13 -0500
> I printed the plans for a 11-plant system
> from "Ron" (one of our associates) that appears to be quite
> synergistic with the Tilapia system. I have been told, however, that I
> will probably run into a P & K deficiency...in dealing with the
> tomatoes. Do either of you have any suggestions as to how I can
> overcome this deficiency w/o hurting the Tilapia?
I wonder if you could rig a nutrient injector in-line between the fish
tank and the plants increading the nutrients tot he optimal level. In
theory the plants would consume the nutrients and the return water would
be clean and not affect the fish.
What is your stocking density in your 1,600 gallon tank? I hope you
plan to run more than 11 plants.
Adriana
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| Message 6 |
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Subject: Re: tomatoes! & fish
From: "TGTX"
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 06:50:43 -0600
>
> Dis be one bad protein.
Hmmm...so it seems. I will check into the Nova transcript and other
references cited.
Thanks for the reading list.
Ted.
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| Message 7 |
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Subject: Re: Cinnamite
From: "Jewel" <1mastiff@amigo.net>
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 10:42:07 -0700
> lack of effectiveness. Yesterday I treated them to an old standby
> which has worked in the past: 1 part Murphys Oil Soap, 1 part alcohol,
> 9 parts water. Then I threw in a couple of tablespoons of Diatomeceous
> Earth to sharpen the brew.
>
> Adriana
>
Did it work?
Sounds like they're beyond getting out of hand. I got a postcard from your
aphids inviting ours out to visit you in FL. Are you sure they're aphids
and not fire ants? Have you tried burning your greenhouse?
Jewel
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| Message 8 |
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Subject: Re: Cinnamite
From: Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 12:52:09 -0500
Yes, that witches brew works but only on direct contact with the
critters. Miss one and she keeps right on reproducing...Although over
time the DE residue on the foliage should claim some more victims.I
would love to find an environmentally friendly systemic killer which
kills them when they feed on the plants.
> > lack of effectiveness. Yesterday I treated them to an old standby
> > which has worked in the past: 1 part Murphys Oil Soap, 1 part alcohol,
> > 9 parts water. Then I threw in a couple of tablespoons of Diatomeceous
> > Earth to sharpen the brew.
> Did it work?
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| Message 9 |
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Subject: UNSUBSCRIBE
From: "don"
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 10:03:04 -0800
unsubscribe
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| Message 10 |
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Subject: Aquaponics again! (mostly)
From: Bill
Date: 9 Nov 99 10:12:50 PST
Mad cow coming back to me... Dec 96 Populkar mechanics, even... Pg 14 Bad=
News, Can be passed to baby cows, but scientists don't know how, maybe ev=
en
sheep... and human can get dementia 10 yrs after injestion. Good news, n=
o
beef crossed Atlantic to America. (Can you hear it? 'Do you have any jew=
elry,
fruit, beef jerky or beef byproducts on your return?')
Considering we are oxygen carbon life forms, and silicon copper (?) was
suggested in sci-fi (& seriously), as possible covalent bonding causes it=
to
be perhaps the next most possible, maybe we have a quazi-virus-like form =
a
Martian could evolve from, which takes heat well... (not serious! "Andro=
meda
Effect/Strain" movie...)
>> plans for a 11-plant system that I will probably run into a P & K
deficiency dealing with tomatoes. any suggestions, overcome this deficien=
cy
w/o hurting Tilapia?
>could rig a nutrient injector between the fish
tank and the plants nutrients optimal level.plants would consume nutrien=
ts
return water not affect the fish.
>stocking density in your 1,600 gallon tank?
I hope you plan to run more than 11 plants.
Would LOVE to 'see' the system. She has a point... a plant-nutrient'loop=
' as
in hydroponics, until nutrient levels are too 'low' for tomatoes, drain t=
hat
to a holding tank, remix tomato nutrient and re-add to their loop, meanwh=
ile
the weak-nutrient tank, 'drips' into fisk tank, at a slow calculated rate=
=2E
This means only the 'thickened' waste flows to the plants**, to reduce fl=
ows,
like a municipal system removes 'solids' and treats them, as it's less to=
heat
and store for the required time, while the water from the 'influent' has =
been
separated and released, after a quicker treatment.
Query... Algae growth... but then, with tomato, nitrogen level shoul be p=
retty
exhausted, as tomatoes use 5-10-10 ratios, even initially.
Am very interested to 'hear' of the plant/fish/gallon/etc ratios you are
starting with, and massage over time. THIS would be a great 'study.' Si=
nce
you're just starting, a blow by major blow accopunt, commented on perhaps=
by
the more knowlegable of the group, would teach some of us (newbies, as I)=
a
lot! As each tomato plant I have uses 20-25 sq ft, 5 ft high in ground, =
but
containers of 20-30 gal size I use a 24" terra cotta pot, but produce a l=
ot
less, AND I read about folks who cut off all but a main stem, I wonder 'h=
ow'
your '11' will be 'configured' or 'trained'? Greenhouse situation? tank
shape?
=
Already, I'm picturing 1600 gallons. Maybe a pool, dug into the yard, li=
ned
w/plastic. The size of 3- 55 gallons drums, in a 'triangle formation', 5=
units long, maybe just 4 units long, due to voids between drums, lets me
picture 1600 gallons pretty well. Trough formation, anyway. Don't know =
if
I'd want a cylinder... A trough woud allow partitioning. Then I would ha=
ve
less than a labyrinth, but more than a tank. A compromise, of sorts.
**A modified-trinagle end-view trough, would aid in collecting solid wast=
e
from the bottom, with less pumping and filtering required... tho' less ar=
ea
for bottom feeders.
Bill OOWON
____________________________________________________________________
Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://webm=
ail.netscape.com.
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| Message 11 |
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Subject: NOT aquaponics
From: Bill
Date: 9 Nov 99 10:37:51 PST
>> lack of effectiveness.
>Are you sure they're aphids
and not fire ants? Have you tried burning your greenhouse?
I keep thinking, just knock them off the plants into the water with an ai=
r
blast from a agrden blower, or use a leaf (or regular) vac, for the fish =
to
eat...
Another garden site... some have tarantulas en mass, another has wolf spi=
ders.
How about them as hungry preditors? Just HOW MANY lady bugs, et al, doe=
s one
release in 30K sq ft during an epidemic? And how many did you? & I'll t=
ry
again, how about cheesecloth over the vents to keep them in? This would =
be
cheap, easy to apply, temporary... am I missing something?
Maybe you HAVE to pull every other plant, as you're too dense, and 'dispo=
se'
of them, so you (or critters) can get to the problem. How many aphids on=
one
plant? Large or young? "This is going on too long. Epsom salts, and so=
ak
the entire plant for an hour a day, mamm. If that doesn't do the trick, =
we'll
have to amputate." Pick sections. Do a sq yd one way, another another w=
ay,
increase concentrations... until they die, or you kill a sq yd of plantin=
gs. =
Typing paper under the plant, or near, if you can might help do a death c=
ount
ratio of effectiveness, the next day.
Bill OOWON
____________________________________________________________________
Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://webm=
ail.netscape.com.
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| Message 12 |
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Subject: Re: NOT aquaponics
From: Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 14:14:56 -0500
Bill,
The blasing method works best for stand-alone plants with sturdy
frames. Believe me, when you blast 2-3 week old densely seeded
(3-4/inch) tender lettuces and greens they FLATTEN OUT into a mat and
don't come back. To add insult to injury, you trap the critters in the
middle of the mat.
> I keep thinking, just knock them off the plants into the water with an air
> blast from a agrden blower, or use a leaf (or regular) vac, for the fish to
> eat...
> How about them as hungry preditors? Just HOW MANY lady bugs, et al, does one
> release in 30K sq ft during an epidemic? And how many did you?
A: Many thousand ladybugs and lacewings...after consultation with the
nice folks at Gardens Alive (Paula, my Stay-at-Home ladybugs didn't, I'm
glad to hear yours did)
how about cheesecloth over the vents to keep them in? This would be
> cheap, easy to apply, temporary... am I missing something?
A: Yes, several somethings. The vent is 100 feet long along the ridge
of a GLASS ROOF, 20 feet in the air. Not an easy roof to work on.
Since this is not a permanent greenhouse for me (it is leased and I will
have to move in the next 6 months) I would rather not spend the time and
risk life and limb to seal the vent. Fiberglass screening is
preferrable to cheesecloth by the way:>)...
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| Message 13 |
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Subject: Re: Cinnamite
From: "Jewel" <1mastiff@amigo.net>
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 12:16:53 -0700
Do you remember an old post about a special sprayer that makes it so the
spray covers 100% of the leaves? Maybe that would help. I can try and find
it if you're interested and no one else knows what I'm talking about.
> Yes, that witches brew works but only on direct contact with the
> critters. Miss one and she keeps right on reproducing...Although over
> time the DE residue on the foliage should claim some more victims.I
> would love to find an environmentally friendly systemic killer which
> kills them when they feed on the plants.
>
>
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| Message 14 |
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Subject: mad aquaponics
From: "Jewel" <1mastiff@amigo.net>
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 12:19:34 -0700
Since we're talking about the mad cow thing, I thought I should mention that
I saw a news story on a man in FL who got it because he was taking
supplements from bovine sources.
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| Message 15 |
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Subject: unsubscribe
From: "Donna Fezler"
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 13:51:12 -0600
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| Message 16 |
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Subject: Re: Cinnamite
From: Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 15:02:20 -0500
Jewel,
That's the electrostatic sprayer and it would definitely help. I'd love
one but prices start at $1,200 and go up from there...
> Do you remember an old post about a special sprayer that makes it so the
> spray covers 100% of the leaves? Maybe that would help.
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| Message 17 |
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Subject: Re: Cinnamite-needa kik it up a notch...
From: William Evans
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 12:06:17 -0800
All this talk of cinnnamite has me thinking of habanero pepper,garlic
home brew
with a peppermint castile chaser.
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| Message 18 |
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Subject: Re: Cinnamite-needa kik it up a notch...
From: Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 15:08:44 -0500
Ok Emeril. I did a similar brew over the summer: a strong peppermint
tea with garlic, onion, cayenne pepper and a couple of shots of Tabasco
in a M-Pede soap base. Where's Mike the school teacher? We could
really use some controlled experiments to test the effectiveness of the
various commercial and home-brews on bugs. I'd be happy to send you
some infested plants :>)...
Adriana
> All this talk of cinnnamite has me thinking of habanero pepper,garlic
> home brew
> with a peppermint castile chaser.
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| Message 19 |
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Subject: Aquaponics subscribe/unsubscribe instructions
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 14:06:26 -0600
As a reminder to all, if you wish to UNSUBSCRIBE (as you would if you wanted
to delete an email address):
Send a message to:
aquaponics
in the body (or message area) type:
unsubscribe
To SUBSCRIBE, send an e-mail to:
aquaponics
in the body (or message area) type:
subscribe
For the DIGEST version:
To subscribe to the digest, send an e-mail to:
aquaponics-digest-request@townsqr.com
in the body (or message area) type:
subscribe
To unsubscribe the digest, etc., etc.
Any problems, please email me directly at and I'll
take care of it from here.
Paula
S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO 65775 417-256-5124
Web page http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
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| Message 20 |
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Subject: Re: Cinnamite-needa kik it up a notch...
From: William Evans
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 12:33:45 -0800
Adriana
>
> > All this talk of cinnnamite has me thinking of habanero pepper,garlic
> > home brew
> > with a peppermint castile chaser.
Its best to crush good amoounts of these ingredients and mix w / water.
Then bottle in a gallon jug and let steep outside( or in side if warmer
there)
for a few months. THe woofy qoutient changes with this aging
process-worth the wait. After a spell, run it thru a good
blender/juicer and strain well.Whats left over should go into the next
brew- with new ingredients of cource
bill/10
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| Message 21 |
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Subject: Re: Cinnamite-needa kik it up a notch...
From: Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 17:14:14 -0500
Bill,
Are you sure this aging process doesn't add any bacteria or other nasty
stuff tot he plants? A few months? Really? (Mike, here's another one
to test - aged vs fresh brew.) Woofy? I love it when you talk
technical:>)...
Adriana
> Its best to crush good amoounts of these ingredients and mix w / water.
> Then bottle in a gallon jug and let steep outside( or in side if warmer
> there) for a few months.
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| Message 22 |
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Subject: Re: Cinnamite-needa kik it up a notch...
From: "Wendy Nagurny"
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 17:48:07 -0500
Adriana, try a mix using that pseudo orange mint. Mine seems to be
impervious to all forms of bug munching. Not grasshoppers, slugs, aphids or
anything else that I can see has munched on mine. The other mints have all
had their share of bug marks, but I am unable to find a single bite out of
the orange mint. It may be good for something after all.
Wendy
>Ok Emeril. I did a similar brew over the summer: a strong peppermint
>tea with garlic, onion, cayenne pepper and a couple of shots of Tabasco
>in a M-Pede soap base.
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| Message 23 |
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Subject: Re: Neem
From: PORTWOODGARDENS@cs.com
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 18:28:28 EST
Azatin XL contains 3% Azadirachtin.
marlan
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| Message 24 |
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Subject: Re: tomatoes! & fish
From: Ronald Polka
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 16:30:48 -0700
At 10:03 PM 11/8/1999 -0800, you wrote:
I am breeding and raising Tilapia. I will have my 1600 gal system set up
within a few days. I want to raise "summertime" tomatoes in the
"wintertime" in Wisconsin. I printed the plans for a 11-plant system from
"Ron" (one of our associates) that appears to be quite synergistic with
the Tilapia system. I have been told, however, that I will probably run
into a P & K deficiency...in dealing with the tomatoes. Do either of you
have any suggestions as to how I can overcome this deficiency w/o hurting
the Tilapia?
Yours...........Steve
Steve
Your concerns about P and K are valid for maxmizing yield. In a
commercial aquaponics facility this could be very troublesome. However
for the homeowner it may not be a big deal if you are willing to live
with less than optimum yields. M. R. Mcmurty documents work that he did
in 1990 on an aquaponic system at North Carolina State University. He
raised Blue Tilapia, tomatoes, cucumbers, and bush beans. The hydro
system was in a sand bed, fed by the tank recirculation water. The aqua
system was very lightly loaded, 0.014 lb/gal at stocking with a growout
to 0.024 lb/gal at the end of the experiment, run time 86 days. This low
stocking density produced a dilute recirc stream.
Measured average nutrient values in the beds were P 9.4 ppm, K 0.02, Ca
0.3, Mg 0.11, pH 6.03.
Average aquaculture water quality as follows, Temp 80 deg, pH 6.5, NO2-N
0.1 ppm, (NH3 and NH4+) - N 0.9 ppm, DO 2.7 ppm, alkalinity 20.
The difference in water quality between hydroponics and aquaculture is
most likely due to the means of pulling recirc water from the bottom of
the fish tanks.
Average tomato yield for the 86 day experiment was 0.93 lb/ft2. This
yield is very low but is for a limited amount of time and I believe the
purpose of the experiment was not to maximize yields but to examine
overall system feasibility with no addition of nutrients. In the
conclusion he states that the low nutrient strength does not appear to be
detrimental because the hydro system sees freshly rejuvenated nutrient
continually, unlike a standard hydro system where the nutrient is mixed,
then goes through strength changes and chemical changes with time until
it becomes unbalanced. The nutrient strength of the aqua recirc water is
relatively constant, increasing slowly as the fish grow and are fed more
which provides more nutrients for the plants. At the time this work was
done hydro yields were much lower than they are today so the actual
numbers are somewhat outdated by recent advances in the technology.
For more the entire paper see McMurtry, M. R., Nelson, P. V., Sanders,
D. C., Hodges, L., "Sand Culture of Vegetables Using Recirculated
Aquacultural Efluents", Applied Agricultural Research, Vol. 5, No. 4, pp
280-284
Ron Polka
Southwest Technology Development Institute
New Mexico State University
Box 30001, Dept 3SOL
Las Cruces, NM 88003
rpolka@nmsu.edu
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| Message 25 |
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Subject: Re:Re:Re: NOT aquaponics
From: Bill
Date: 9 Nov 99 15:40:57 PST
>Many thousand ladybugs and lacewings...after consultation with the
nice folks at Gardens Alive (Paula, my Stay-at-Home ladybugs didn't, I'm
glad to hear yours did)
**Saw a site that had 1700 bugs for $17, which seems the rate at retail..=
=2E but
had a gallon, 70K, for about $50, NOW that's a good rate. Tho' admittedl=
y, an
expense.
>Not an easy roof to work on, 20' hi. Fiberglass screening is preferrable=
to
cheesecloth by the way:>)...
I supposed it'd be high, but thopught tossing a string over, tied to the
corner of the cheesecloth, and tied to a sock with a handful of sand... c=
ould
be controlled from the ground. Mine is retail, $1/SqYd. Fiberglass leaves=
you
with a better item to have later, but maybe harder to control from the gr=
ound.
Maybe open fewer vents, so screen fewer. Grasping at straws to help. In=
Silicon valley we toss out NAY idea, as it might germinate another, that =
is
better.
Bill
____________________________________________________________________
Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://webm=
ail.netscape.com.
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| Message 26 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Afidz Sprayer?
From: Bill
Date: 9 Nov 99 15:48:59 PST
>>the electrostatic sprayer and it would definitely help. but prices sta=
rt at
$1,200 and go up from there...
OK. Not as good, but no (almost) air blast, & cheap, $25-$50, Wagner Air=
less
paint sprayer, with fine jet-orifice.
Bill
____________________________________________________________________
Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://webm=
ail.netscape.com.
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| Message 27 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Marc, Who won the ater debate?
From: Carolyn Hoagland
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 18:43:04 -0500
>Only one debate about water. The notion that distilled or
>pure water is "lifeless" and "removes" important minerals
>from the body vs pure water isn't bad for you. Lasted 30
>seconds with a 3 count both shoulder pin.
So is pure water OK to drink?
Carolyn
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| Message 28 |
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Subject: Re:Mad Cow Prions
From: Carolyn Hoagland
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 18:51:34 -0500
I'll bet that scientists will find out that the only thing that
"neutralizes" these
prions is some kind of biological process (like digestion by an earthworm or
bacteria
or something...)
Meanwhile, be sure to wear a dust mask when using bone meal. There are some
folks
that say that most of our beef, chicken, sheep, and pork is infected in this
country,
and inhalation gives the prions a direct shot into your system.
Isn't it weird. I've read the books. I believe the problem. I still eat
meat at
least once (usually twice) a day. Go figure.
Seems like a great reason to promote fish as a "safe" protein product. Just
don't
add that "all purpose protein meal" to your fish feed. Its mostly rendered from
downer cows, sheep etc.....) Incredible that we could turn a cow into a
carnivore -
and they seem to like it....
Carolyn
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| Message 29 |
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Subject: Dioxin
From: "TGTX"
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 19:09:56 -0600
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF2AE6.0280BFA0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
For those who might be curious or concerned about DIOXIN...especially as =
it might relate to growing and consuming food....here is something about =
it. =20
http://www.junkscience.com/nov99/bjpress.htm
.=20
------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF2AE6.0280BFA0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
For those who might be curious or concerned=20
about DIOXIN...especially as it might relate to growing and =
consuming=20
food....here is something about it.
http://www.junkscie=
nce.com/nov99/bjpress.htm
.
------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF2AE6.0280BFA0--
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| Message 30 |
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Subject: Mad Cow Prions in Aquacultre'
From: Bill
Date: 9 Nov 99 17:30:27 PST
>great reason to promote fish as a "safe" protein product.
Just don't add that "all purpose protein meal" to your fish feed.
"Just don't drink the water,"
But seriously, folks...
A response I had was a pressurized greenhouse, streams...
And HE got a response, similar,...
two minds (at least) who are gravitating toward aquaculture/biospheres.
One told of the day he'd like to plan a labyrinth system, and named all s=
orts
of critters which would occupy it. (No Aphidz, I noted... :>(
I think it would be great to do this as a 'food chain.' I recall seeing
aquariums, which have been literally sealed, for a year! Incl gasses...
(Natcherally, no output, but fish alive, w/no external inputs)
While greater quanities of output require more input (I too, am a tomato =
fan,)
it'd be nice to add some of that input as self re-creating. Is breeding =
the
fish the norm, or need we restock always? Too bad brine shrimp can't bre=
ed
there... but what easy steps can we take to make this a more symbiotic
environ? A little more biospere-ish.
Finding lots (remember, I'm new at this) but some of the best "edu" sites=
,
seemed blocked by server, or are old addresses. Hit everything 37.com
offered. The recent N,P, K residuals & fish wt gains over 8 months was v=
ery
very interesting, tho' pure output in wt is not as desireable to me as ha=
ving
2-5 'things' in my 'water'-garden.
Thx! Bill OOWON
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