Aquaponics Digest - Wed 11/10/99

Message   1: Re: Aquaponics again! (mostly)

             from steve spring 

Message   2: Re: NOT aquaponics 

             from steve spring 

Message   3: Re: tomatoes! & fish

             from steve spring 

Message   4: 

             from Kate Jones 

Message   5: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Tue  11/09/99

             from DAVEINBHAM

Message   6: Unusual colored salad ingredients

             from Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta

Message   7: Heating revisited.

             from "Barry Thomas" 

Message   8: Re: Unusual colored salad ingredients

             from Dave Miller 

Message   9: Re: Heating revisited.

             from "Barry Thomas" 

Message  10: Re: Heating revisited.

             from Dave Miller 

Message  11: Re: Marc, Who won the ater debate?

             from PORTWOODGARDENS@cs.com

Message  12: OT...Re: Air in compost...Heating revisited.

             from William Evans 

Message  13: Re: Marc, Who won the ater debate?

             from Marc & Marcy 

Message  14: heating revisted

             from Jon Hays 

Message  15: Re: tomatoes! & fish

             from "TGTX" 

Message  16: Re: heating revisted

             from Bagelhole1

Message  17: Re: Unusual colored salad ingredients

             from MUDDTOO

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Subject: Re: Aquaponics again! (mostly)

From:    steve spring 

Date:    Wed, 10 Nov 1999 00:03:00 -0800

Bill,

The configuration for the 1600 gal system is 2- 800/gal. circular tanks

separated but joined

by a clarifier. (With some additional plumbing and bio-filters.)

This system should be put together and operational by next Tues/Wed (I

hope.) If I can ever

figure out (or have the time to look at it) my scanner, I can send some

pictures.

Take care........Steve

Bill wrote:

> Mad cow coming back to me... Dec 96 Populkar mechanics, even... Pg 14 Bad

> News, Can be passed to baby cows, but scientists don't know how, maybe even

> sheep... and human can get dementia 10 yrs after injestion.  Good news, no

> beef crossed Atlantic to America. (Can you hear it?  'Do you have any jewelry,

> fruit, beef jerky or beef byproducts on your return?')

>

> Considering we are oxygen carbon life forms, and silicon copper (?) was

> suggested in sci-fi (& seriously), as possible covalent bonding causes it to

> be perhaps the next most possible, maybe we have a quazi-virus-like form a

> Martian could evolve from, which takes heat well... (not serious!  "Andromeda

> Effect/Strain" movie...)

>

> >> plans for a 11-plant system  that I will probably run into a P & K

> deficiency dealing with tomatoes. any suggestions, overcome this deficiency

> w/o hurting Tilapia?

>

> >could rig a nutrient injector between the fish

> tank and the plants nutrients optimal level.plants would consume  nutrients

> return water not affect the fish.

>

> >stocking density in your 1,600 gallon tank?

> I hope you plan to run more than 11 plants.

>

> Would LOVE to 'see' the system.  She has a point... a plant-nutrient'loop' as

> in hydroponics, until nutrient levels are too 'low' for tomatoes, drain that

> to a holding tank, remix tomato nutrient and re-add to their loop, meanwhile

> the weak-nutrient tank, 'drips' into fisk tank, at a slow calculated rate.

>

> This means only the 'thickened' waste flows to the plants**, to reduce flows,

> like a municipal system removes 'solids' and treats them, as it's less to heat

> and store for the required time, while the water from the 'influent' has been

> separated and released, after a quicker treatment.

>

> Query... Algae growth... but then, with tomato, nitrogen level shoul be pretty

> exhausted, as tomatoes use 5-10-10 ratios, even initially.

>

> Am very interested to 'hear' of the plant/fish/gallon/etc ratios you are

> starting with, and massage over time.  THIS would be a great 'study.'  Since

> you're just starting, a blow by major blow accopunt, commented on perhaps by

> the more knowlegable of the group, would teach some of us (newbies, as I) a

> lot!  As each tomato plant I have uses 20-25 sq ft, 5 ft high in ground, but

> containers of 20-30 gal size I use a 24" terra cotta pot, but produce a lot

> less, AND I read about folks who cut off all but a main stem, I wonder 'how'

> your '11' will be 'configured' or 'trained'?  Greenhouse situation? tank

> shape?

>

> Already, I'm picturing 1600 gallons.  Maybe a pool, dug into the yard, lined

> w/plastic.  The size of 3- 55 gallons drums, in a 'triangle formation', 5

> units long, maybe just 4 units long, due to voids between drums, lets me

> picture 1600 gallons pretty well.  Trough formation, anyway.  Don't know if

> I'd want a cylinder... A trough woud allow partitioning.  Then I would have

> less than a labyrinth, but more than a tank.  A compromise, of sorts.

>

> **A modified-trinagle end-view trough, would aid in collecting solid waste

> from the bottom, with less pumping and filtering required... tho' less area

> for bottom feeders.

> Bill OOWON

>

> ____________________________________________________________________

> Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at

http://webmail.netscape.com.

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Subject: Re: NOT aquaponics 

From:    steve spring 

Date:    Wed, 10 Nov 1999 00:08:32 -0800

You need to go to bed Bill. TARANTULAS!!!  YEUK...ICK!!!

Bill wrote:

> >> lack of effectiveness.

> >Are you sure they're aphids

> and not fire ants?  Have you tried burning your greenhouse?

>

> I keep thinking, just knock them off the plants into the water with an air

> blast from a agrden blower, or use a leaf (or regular) vac, for the fish to

> eat...

>

> Another garden site... some have tarantulas en mass, another has wolf spiders.

>  How about them as hungry preditors?  Just HOW MANY lady bugs, et al, does one

> release in 30K sq ft during an epidemic?  And how many did you?  & I'll try

> again, how about cheesecloth over the vents to keep them in?  This would be

> cheap, easy to apply, temporary... am I missing something?

>

> Maybe you HAVE to pull every other plant, as you're too dense, and 'dispose'

> of them, so you (or critters) can get to the problem.  How many aphids on one

> plant?  Large or young?  "This is going on too long.  Epsom salts, and soak

> the entire plant for an hour a day, mamm.  If that doesn't do the trick, we'll

> have to amputate."  Pick sections.  Do a sq yd one way, another another way,

> increase concentrations... until they die, or you kill a sq yd of plantings.

> Typing paper under the plant, or near, if you can might help do a death count

> ratio of effectiveness, the next day.

> Bill OOWON

>

> ____________________________________________________________________

> Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at

http://webmail.netscape.com.

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Subject: Re: tomatoes! & fish

From:    steve spring 

Date:    Wed, 10 Nov 1999 00:25:33 -0800

Hi Ron,

THANKS A MILLION...I NEEDED THAT!! I printed your response so I have it t=

o refer to.

On a rather generic note, the internet is so full of crap, vulgarity, etc=

=2E I am so pleased to be a part of onelist (tilapia & hydroponics) and a=

quaponics @ townsquare. I may sound foolish, but I look forward to coming=

 home and checking my messages from my associates. There is always humor,=

 genuine questions and concerns and, certainly, not the least, some great=

 information from some very intelligent people.

Just thought I would throw that in. Thanks a lot teammates.

Steve

Ronald Polka wrote:

> At 10:03 PM 11/8/1999 -0800, you wrote:

>

>      I am breeding and raising Tilapia. I will have my 1600 gal system =

set up within a few days. I want to raise "summertime" tomatoes in the "w=

intertime" in Wisconsin. I printed the plans for a 11-plant system from "=

Ron" (one of our associates) that appears to be quite synergistic with th=

e Tilapia system. I have been told, however, that I will probably run int=

o a P & K deficiency...in dealing with the tomatoes. Do either of you hav=

e any suggestions as to how I can overcome this deficiency w/o hurting th=

e Tilapia?

>

>      Yours...........Steve

>

> Steve

> Your concerns about P and K are valid for maxmizing yield. In a commerc=

ial aquaponics facility this could be very troublesome. However for the h=

omeowner it may not be a big deal if you are willing to live with less th=

an optimum yields. M. R. Mcmurty documents work that he did in 1990 on an=

 aquaponic system at North Carolina State University. He raised Blue Tila=

pia, tomatoes, cucumbers, and bush beans. The hydro system was in a sand =

bed, fed by the tank recirculation water. The aqua system was very lightl=

y loaded, 0.014 lb/gal at stocking with a growout to 0.024 lb/gal at the =

end of the experiment, run time 86 days. This low stocking density produc=

ed a dilute recirc stream.

>

> Measured average nutrient values in the beds were P 9.4 ppm, K 0.02, Ca=

 0.3, Mg 0.11, pH 6.03.

>

> Average aquaculture water quality as follows, Temp 80 deg, pH 6.5, NO2-=

N 0.1 ppm, (NH3 and NH4+) - N 0.9 ppm, DO 2.7 ppm, alkalinity 20.

> The difference in water quality between hydroponics and aquaculture is =

most likely due to the means of pulling recirc water from the bottom of t=

he fish tanks.

>

> Average tomato yield for the 86 day experiment was 0.93 lb/ft2. This yi=

eld is very low but is for a limited amount of time and I believe the pur=

pose of the experiment was not to maximize yields but to examine overall =

system feasibility with no addition of nutrients. In the conclusion he st=

ates that the low nutrient strength does not appear to be detrimental bec=

ause the hydro system sees freshly rejuvenated nutrient continually, unli=

ke a standard hydro system where the nutrient is mixed, then goes through=

 strength changes and chemical changes with time until it becomes unbalan=

ced. The nutrient strength of the aqua recirc water is relatively constan=

t, increasing slowly as the fish grow and are fed more which provides mor=

e nutrients for the plants. At the time this work was done hydro yields w=

ere much lower than they are today so the actual numbers are somewhat out=

dated by recent advances in the technology.

> For more the entire paper see McMurtry, M. R., Nelson, P. V., Sanders, =

D. C., Hodges, L., "Sand Culture of Vegetables Using Recirculated Aquacul=

tural Efluents", Applied Agricultural Research, Vol. 5, No. 4, pp 280-284=

>

> Ron Polka

> Southwest Technology Development Institute

> New Mexico State University

> Box 30001, Dept 3SOL

> Las Cruces, NM 88003

> rpolka@nmsu.edu

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| Message 4                                                           |

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From:    Kate Jones 

Date:    Wed, 10 Nov 1999 06:22:20 -0800 (PST)

unsubscribe

=====

__________________________________________________

Do You Yahoo!?

Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

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Subject: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Tue  11/09/99

From:    DAVEINBHAM

Date:    Wed, 10 Nov 1999 13:14:01 EST

In a message dated 11/09/1999 11:54:01 PM Central Standard Time, 

aquaponics-digest-request@townsqr.com writes:

<< Dave,

 Very interesting about Dynagrow prices....email has been sent. 

 Regarding neem concentration, now we need to know the aza(whatever)

 concentration that is normal in unconcentrated neem oil to compare it to

 the "conc3entrates" being sold by others.  I may be able to get this

 info from Aloha Farms.

  >>

>>*************************************************************************

*******

***

Adriana,

If you get the information you want, please post to the rest of us.

Regards

Dave

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Subject: Unusual colored salad ingredients

From:    Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta 

Date:    Wed, 10 Nov 1999 16:08:35 -0500

Way back before my hard drive crashed I had come across a document which

I think was produced by the USDA or some other govt agency which listed

salad greens and/or vegetable varieties by color.  Does anybody by any

chance have this list?

I'm looking for a salad ingredient which will add a deep blue-green

color to my mix.  Can anybody recommend a variety?

Adriana

ps - salad ingredients can be grown in both aquaponic AND hydroponic

systems (OK?)

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Subject: Heating revisited.

From:    "Barry Thomas" 

Date:    Wed, 10 Nov 1999 23:24:26 -0000

> Of interest to Aquaponics was a presentation on solar

> heating for greenhouses. It is available through SARE. It

> directly dovetailed with the discussion on heating and heat

> control from a week or two ago.

Marc: I emailed a request to the SARE site for the info when I saw your

post but have heard nothing back as yet. Which particular discussion did

you mean? Could you give the basic idea of what was attempted and what

the results were?

I looked at the heating-by-compost stuff you pointed to - very

interesting indeed. Would try it if I had the room (probably give the

"humanure" business a miss though). One thing I wonder about is just

what percentage of total heat produced can be removed from the heap on a

continuous basis without unduly affecting the composting process? Also,

running the tubing directly in amongst the compost could make

maintainance, material removal etc rather a chore - might be ways round

this but can't think of any good ones yet. Certainly seems worth looking

into though.

A note to all:

I've been banging-on (intermittantly) about reducing airflow through the

GH  in general and lowering humidity in particular. Judging by the level

of interest this has produced it seems that most believe this to have

little relavence to aquaponics. I would say that it _is_ of relevance as

these aspects not only affect whatever system the structure contains but

there is one reason why this is (or seems to me) of especial importance

to aquaponics but which I've

never seen mention of:

Nutrient Levels.

>From referred and direct info given on this list (as well as other

sources), it seems that a major difficulty comes from the fact that

having the water "rich" enough for the plants means it is too dirty for

the fish - clean enough for the fish and there's not enough nutrient for

the plants. Keep it somewhere in the middle and you get a workable but

low-performing system as neither group has optimal conditions. This also

limits what can be grown (see all the discussion on tomatoes etc.).

But, by reducing humidity, transpiration can be substantially increased.

As every hydro grower knows, under these conditions you must reduce EC.

For aqua, this effectively shifts the plant's nutrient requirements

closer to that of the fish. Or to put it another way, it increases the

effective nutrient supply to the plants without affecting the fish at

all.

I think.

Be interested to see what you all think about this.

Thanks to all as always for excellent info on the list.  :)

Barry

barrythomas@crosswinds.net

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Subject: Re: Unusual colored salad ingredients

From:    Dave Miller 

Date:    Wed, 10 Nov 1999 19:00:01 -0500

Adriana,

I believe that kale may be the blue green you seek though may not be as

deep as you desire. There are no blue veggies. Perhaps a seaweed...

Dave

-- 

_______________________________________

«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»

¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯

A remodeler, drummer, Kindred Spirit...

Put a pebble in your pocket and a penny in your shoe!

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| Message 9                                                           |

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Subject: Re: Heating revisited.

From:    "Barry Thomas" 

Date:    Thu, 11 Nov 1999 00:51:57 -0000

> Also, running the tubing directly in amongst the

> compost could make maintainance, material removal

> etc rather a chore - might be ways round this but

> can't think of any good ones yet

Just been thinking about this and one possibility that does occur is to

simply lay the coils of tubing on top of the heap. When adding more

material, drag some of the coils out of the way first and lay them back

on top afterwards. Assuming the heap is in a well insulated (including

the roof) structure then forced aeration at the bottom of the heap

(which should accelerate composting anyway) carries heat up to the coils

and airspace above the heap to be used directly or stored.

Just a thought...

Barry

barrythomas@crosswinds.net

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| Message 10                                                          |

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Subject: Re: Heating revisited.

From:    Dave Miller 

Date:    Wed, 10 Nov 1999 20:24:11 -0500

These are my 2 cents (whatever happened to the cent character on the

keyboard?):

Is there any reason why PVC tubes passed thru a compost heap cannot have

holes (small? or large?) drilled through them in order to introduce

additional circulation? Much like a drainage pipe. Heck, why not just

introduce a drainage pipe now that I am voicing.

Recycler Dave

-- 

_______________________________________

«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»

¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯

A remodeler, drummer, Kindred Spirit...

Put a pebble in your pocket and a penny in your shoe!

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| Message 11                                                          |

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Subject: Re: Marc, Who won the ater debate?

From:    PORTWOODGARDENS@cs.com

Date:    Wed, 10 Nov 1999 20:26:14 EST

Water in its purest possible form is so "hungry" that it will desolve copper 

pipe if you try to run the water through it.

Marlan

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| Message 12                                                          |

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Subject: OT...Re: Air in compost...Heating revisited.

From:    William Evans 

Date:    Wed, 10 Nov 1999 17:55:24 -0800

Dave Miller wrote:

>  Is there any reason why PVC tubes passed thru a compost heap cannot have

> holes (small? or large?) drilled through them in order to introduce

> additional circulation? 

 Ya mean like 3 to 4" drain pipe? to introduce more air into the pile?

could also "poke" the pile- after it's built- w/ a      digging bar.just

wobble it round a bit to form a breathing shaft...

every foot on center should do the trick. 

 

Then cover it w/ plastic and dont disturb unless it heats and catches

fire!. Make sure to start w/a wet pile...I think it works better than

one central vent. cost is freee, and you get a workoout in  return.

 THis way you dont have to fret about the evil pvc monster (whether

real  or a non issue) and you get a workout.... and your compost

composts.

bill/10

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| Message 13                                                          |

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Subject: Re: Marc, Who won the ater debate?

From:    Marc & Marcy 

Date:    Wed, 10 Nov 1999 19:32:00 -0700

Water has been called the "universal solvent" by some. 

In a cubic mile of sea water there is something like 6 tons

of gold (if my memory serves me correctly). Gold is

considered a "noble" metal and noble metals are considered

rather non reactive.

In systems that utilize purer water the materials for

plumbing are plastic, stainless steel or other "non

reactive" materials since this water will dissolve materials

such as steel, copper and iron. 

In a fairly pure state it is an insulator and will not

conduct an electric current. One application of this is to

submerse radio or television station transmitter tubes into

water to cool them. These tubes have 5 to 15 thousand volts

applied to them and no shorts occur since the fairly pure

water is an insulator.

In a commercial application I designed an R/O system which

our company installed. Previously the company was consuming

18 gallons of 5.25% bleach per month to disinfect the water.

After the R/O was installed the water was so pure the bleach

had virtually no minerals to combine with so it took 18

times less bleach per month! In order to protect their

plumbing we added food grade marble to raise the pH to 7.1.

Water in its purest form has a pH MUCH lower than 7. This is

considered quite acidic.

You will probably never experience "pure" water. Pure water

immediately combines with stuff in the atmosphere and it is

no longer "pure".

A little thought of fact is that mountain water from snow

pack or rainwater are rather pure forms of water and

typically will have a pH under 7 or be "corrosive".

PORTWOODGARDENS@cs.com wrote:

> 

> Water in its purest possible form is so "hungry" that it will desolve copper

> pipe if you try to run the water through it.

> 

> Marlan

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| Message 14                                                          |

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Subject: heating revisted

From:    Jon Hays 

Date:    Wed, 10 Nov 1999 19:54:05 -0700

This is just an idea that might be worth some thought. In the oil field we 

used salt bath heaters to distill products. So why can't you dig a pit and 

line it with something that would not let the salt leach into the ground. 

Use solar panels to heat the salt all summer for use in the winter. Salt 

holds 10 times tie energy as water. You could run a fire tube through the 

bottom, ( make it a U-tube) enter on one end and exit an the same end. You 

could fire it with gas, wood, or any combustible product. This is after you 

have extracted all the energy out after a long winter. This is an idea not 

a design.

Best regards

John Hays

John Hays

1903 Pebble Hill Rd.

Carlsbad, NM  88220

1-505-887-0102

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| Message 15                                                          |

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Subject: Re: tomatoes! & fish

From:    "TGTX" 

Date:    Wed, 10 Nov 1999 20:55:01 -0600

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  Steve wrote:

  I have been told, however, that I will probably run into a P & K =

deficiency...in dealing with the tomatoes. Do either of you have any =

suggestions as to how I can overcome this deficiency w/o hurting the =

Tilapia?=20

  Any input would be appreciated.

  Steve,=20

  I have been growing plants and fish together for a while now...I am =

still learning...and I have concluded that that P&K are not problems for =

the plants or the fish. =20

  I suggest that you just leap into it fearlessly, or even fearfully if =

that's what it takes, and just do it!  It won't matter in 100 years, if =

you failed on the 1st experiment...or the second or the third....just =

keep good notes and watch the system work...and think and dream and =

scratch your chin and pace around until you figure it out for =

yourself...you are likely to think of another, better way to grow the =

plants with your particular set-up, or you might come up with a grand =

idea to scrap your entire system and build another one based on what you =

have learned.  Just do this: keep oxygen in the water high (near 80% =

saturation or better if you can manage it....so that might mean 5 to 6 =

ppm DO2) and keep the water flowing through the system either =

continuously or with ebb and flow...that's my take on it.  Don't let =

sludge from excess fish feed or introduced solids such as from potting =

soil plugs around seedlings transplanted into the gravel build up to the =

point that it is a problem..with respect to oxygen or pathogens or water =

flow...however you manage to do that...by avoidance, or by scheduled =

"remediation" will be up to your own best management practices and the =

design options of your system. =20

  Also...Light and temperature are critical to plant performance.. Some =

cultivars of tomatoes won't set fruit if the sensible air temperature is =

above a certain point and this varies with different cultivars....Tomato =

plants and tomato fruits want light and heat more than =

lettuce..Sometimes vegetative growth can outstrip flower and fruit =

development for tomatos in aquaponics systems, but I have found this to =

be true in my own outdoor raised bed dirt garden.  Tom and Paula, and =

Gordon, and lots of others on this list... have grown a lot more tomatos =

in aquaponics systems than I have....I think....I planted a few and grew =

some of the yellow and red teardrop tomatoes...They went wild and took =

over...I never thought I would consider a tomato vine a weed, but that's =

what happend in my system, so I ripped them all out and composted =

them...How can I walk between the aisles when these jungle plants are =

taking over?

  I found a tomato plant growing in my beds that I feel for sure came =

from someone's BLT sandwich...It could have been from some construction =

dudes who I hired early on to help me build this thing...my romantic =

theory and long winded tale about that particular plant goes like =

this.....a seed or two from his sandwich dropped onto the gravel and =

became a big vine before I could react to it and pluck it out of the =

system....Sometimes you just don't want to do that, just to see what =

variety of plant or tomato it will become....Roma? Beefsteak? Cherry =

Tomato?  Are we going to see a re-enactment of the "Little Shop of =

Horrors" movie?  I resisted the temptation to let it grow out to its =

full fruition, after a brief period of marvel, and sent it to the =

compost pile.

  I grow my tomatos in the dirt, but I think you can grow whatever you =

want to grow in aquaponics systems..... I think....there may be problems =

or nutrient imbalances, based on what is available on the surface of the =

gravel, what goes into the fish feed, and how the system is operated to =

maintain oxygen, pH, and salinity, but it is hard to predict what those =

things might be or how they might change over time since we are =

discussing systems that are fundamentally different in design and =

operation....just try it on a small scale and keep building on what =

works.

  Good Luck.

  Ted.=20

    =20

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Steve wrote:

  
I have been told, however, that I will =

probably run=20

  into a P & K deficiency...in dealing with the tomatoes. Do either =

of you=20

  have any suggestions as to how I can overcome this deficiency w/o =

hurting the=20

  Tilapia?=20

  
Any input would be appreciated.

  
 

  
Steve,=20

  
I have been growing plants and fish together for a while =

now...I=20

  am still learning...and I have concluded that that P&K are=20

  not problems for the plants or the fish. =20

  
I suggest that you just leap into it fearlessly, or even fearfully=20

  if that's what it takes, and just do it!  It won't matter in =

100=20

  years, if you failed on the 1st experiment...or the second or the=20

  third....just keep good notes and watch the system work...and think =

and dream=20

  and scratch your chin and pace around until you figure it out for=20

  yourself...you are likely to think of another, better way to grow the =

plants=20

  with your particular set-up, or you might come up with a grand =

idea to=20

  scrap your entire system and build another one based on what you have=20

  learned.  Just do this: keep oxygen in the water high (near 80%=20

  saturation or better if you can manage it....so that might mean 5 to 6 =

ppm=20

  DO2) and keep the water flowing through the system either=20

  continuously or with ebb and flow...that's my take on it.  =

Don't let=20

  sludge from excess fish feed or introduced solids such as from potting =

soil=20

  plugs around seedlings transplanted into the gravel build up to the =

point that=20

  it is a problem..with respect to oxygen or pathogens or water =

flow...however=20

  you manage to do that...by avoidance, or by scheduled "remediation" =

will be up=20

  to your own best management practices and the design options of your=20

  system. =20

  
Also...Light and temperature are critical to plant =

performance.. Some=20

  cultivars of tomatoes won't set fruit if the sensible air temperature =

is above=20

  a certain point and this varies with different cultivars....Tomato =

plants and=20

  tomato fruits want light and heat more than lettuce..Sometimes =

vegetative=20

  growth can outstrip flower and fruit development for tomatos =

in=20

  aquaponics systems, but I have found this to be true in my =

own outdoor=20

  raised bed dirt garden.  Tom and Paula, and Gordon, and lots of =

others on=20

  this list... have grown a lot more tomatos in aquaponics systems than =

I=20

  have....I think....I planted a few and grew some of the yellow and red =

  teardrop tomatoes...They went wild and took over...I never =

thought I=20

  would consider a tomato vine a weed, but that's what happend in =

my=20

  system, so I ripped them all out and composted them...How can I walk =

between=20

  the aisles when these jungle plants are taking over?

  
I found a tomato plant growing in my beds that I feel for sure =

came=20

  from someone's BLT sandwich...It could have been from some=20

  construction dudes who I hired early on to help me build this =

thing...my=20

  romantic theory and long winded tale about that particular plant goes =

like=20

  this.....a seed or two from his sandwich dropped onto the =

gravel and=20

  became a big vine before I could react to it and pluck it out of the=20

  system....Sometimes you just don't want to do that, just to see what =

variety=20

  of plant or tomato it will become....Roma? Beefsteak? Cherry=20

  Tomato?  Are we going to see a re-enactment of the "Little =

Shop of=20

  Horrors" movie?  I resisted the temptation to let it grow out to its =

full=20

  fruition, after a brief period of marvel, and sent it to the compost =

pile.

  
I grow my tomatos in the dirt, but I think you can grow =

whatever you=20

  want to grow in aquaponics systems..... I think....there may be =

problems or=20

  nutrient imbalances, based on what is available on the surface of the =

gravel,=20

  what goes into the fish feed, and how the system is operated to =

maintain=20

  oxygen, pH, and salinity, but it is hard to predict what those things =

might be=20

  or how they might change over time since we are discussing systems =

that are=20

  fundamentally different in design and operation....just try it on a =

small=20

  scale and keep building on what works.

  
Good Luck.

  
Ted. 

  
 

  
   

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| Message 16                                                          |

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Subject: Re: heating revisted

From:    Bagelhole1

Date:    Wed, 10 Nov 1999 22:44:29 EST

In a message dated 11/11/99 3:52:23 AM, jhays@caverns.com writes:

<>

Could you explain that a little more, John? It sounds interesting. Thanks, 

Tom O

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| Message 17                                                          |

'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'

Subject: Re: Unusual colored salad ingredients

From:    MUDDTOO

Date:    Wed, 10 Nov 1999 23:26:55 EST

In a message dated 11/10/99 3:58:44 PM Pacific Standard Time, 

recycler@eclipse.net writes:

> Adriana,

>  

>  I believe that kale may be the blue green you seek though may not be as

>  deep as you desire. There are no blue veggies. Perhaps a seaweed..

How about lavendar colored bell peppers or purple egg plant...  scratch that 

egg plant- I wouldn't want to eat that raw either.  The bell pepper is pretty 

but may be a bit hot for a salad.

joel