Aquaponics Digest - Wed 12/01/99
Message 1: Missouri Aquaculture Association Annual Meeting
from S & S Aqua Farm
Message 2: Re: Co-op seed order
from Marc & Marcy
Message 3: using fish effluent
from "M. Brody"
Message 4: List newbie - don't panic :)
from Vik Olliver
Message 5: Re: List newbie - don't panic :)
from Jim Sealy Jr
Message 6: Free Greenhouse Heat ?
from LEBO714
Message 7: RE: Missouri Aquaculture Association Annual Meeting -> pin coop.
from "Ronald W. Brooks"
Message 8: Re: Co-op seed order
from Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Message 9: Portland, OR subscribers?
from S & S Aqua Farm
Message 10: Re: Co-op seed order
from "TGTX"
Message 11: Re: using fish effluent
from "TGTX"
Message 12: Crayfish Prawn Culture- Reducing Territorial Problems.
from "TGTX"
Message 13: Cement Product Considerations
from "TGTX"
Message 14: Happy Trails, Adios, and Shalom, Y'all
from "TGTX"
Message 15: Re: Co-op seed order
from S & S Aqua Farm
Message 16: Re: Crayfish Prawn Culture- Reducing Territorial Problems.
from Bagelhole1
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| Message 1 |
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Subject: Missouri Aquaculture Association Annual Meeting
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 11:15:45 -0600
I received the brochure for the February 2000 meeting at Cape Girardeau.
Joe Myers, our state Aquaculture Specialist, has forwarded an on-line
version of the brochure which includes most of the presenters. If anyone is
interested, please reply privately to , and I'll
forward the attachment (in Word format) to you. Or you can contact Joe
directly at
I told Joe I would post this notice to the group (and complained because the
fish pins being offered with registration didn't include Tilapia), he replies:
>
>The reason for not offering a tilapia pin is that they do not come in the
>small size we are offering with pre-registration. The company though, does
>have a larger tilapia pin. If you want one, I will order it for you.
>Pewter is $5, 24K gold plated is $8, and hand painted is $15.
So for all you Tilapia growers who are looking for additional advertising
methods - here's one you can wear on your clothing:>)
Let me know if you want the conference info.
Paula
S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO 65775 417-256-5124
Web page http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
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| Message 2 |
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Subject: Re: Co-op seed order
From: Marc & Marcy
Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 11:01:38 -0700
Adriana,
I was browsing Johnny's website. Have you tried their
"Redina" variety?
Marcy
Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta wrote:
>
> I'm getting ready to place an order with Stokes for some Revolution
> lettuce seed. It is THE prettiest red lettuce I've tried yet. (And
> believe me I've tried lots of them). It's a beautiful burgundy color
> with small very frilly leaves and a good crispy texture. It's also very
> expensive to order in the smaller packages,, coming out to over
> $900/#!!!!!#@$
>
> Once you order larger quantities you get a substantial price break,
> cutting the cost by more than 50%. For 1/2 a pound the price is $213.25
> and a pound is $404.75. Would anybody be interested in splitting an
> order? I'd be happy to take care of the logistics of ordering and
> resdistribution. If this works out we could repeat the process for
> other varieties. Let me know by e-mail if you're interested.
>
> Adriana
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| Message 3 |
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Subject: using fish effluent
From: "M. Brody"
Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 20:34:56 +0200
{{{ A word of explanation about this correspondence: my friend Alon lives
in a nearby settlement and has built up an organic greenhouse operation in
the course of about 10 years, recently adding a fish pool. I am also an
organic farmer [vineyard, teas and spices] and since I have found lots of
good ideas on the Web, I suggested that he search for information in his
field of interest. The problem is that he is afraid of/ doesn't have time
for computers etc., so I subscribed to this great aquaponics list, and have
been copying applicable letters and sending them to him. Here's his try at
feedback. I apologize if this post is hard to understand- Alon sent me
this as a hastily scribbled note passed from one of his kids to mine at
school this morning [the regional public school is in my settlement- Elon
Moreh] and I have tried to decipher it. Also keep in mind that we don't
usually speak English here [even though we both emigrated from America-
that was many years ago... ] . Menachem Brody }}}
Dear Aqua-friends,
Thank you for your answers and encouragements concerning O2 monitoring.
My goal is to realize a low tech/high tech self supporting and economically
feasible integrated ecological farm. I would like to learn from your
experience.
In terms of reusing the fish effluent, I have gotten to about 20-30 ppm NO3
after 5 months growth of 10,000 carp in 600m3 water [from collected
rainwater from the greenhouse roofs]. I have a 50 m3 trickle filter and an
O2 maker [both of which use about 150 USD of electricity /month. In terms
of reducing that cost, I'm planning a windmill O2 maker which in the long
run will save money by reducing the electricity bill. I have still to find
the cheapest and most effective automatic O2 monitoring and control system.
One of the biggest problems in organic farming is the relative low yields,
for example a short season of tomatoes planted in July, I get 8-10
tons/dunam picking until December. I remember the days when I used
traditional methods and got out almost 2-4 times as much/ dunam using the
fertilizer injection system of heavy chemical fertilizer and watering as
much as 3 times a day.
The question is: organically how can I get much higher yields, since the
prices are only 15-20% higher, but the yields are at least 50% less! [that
hurts the pocket] One of the main problems in organic farming is a lack of
NO3 sources, most of the fertilizers appear in the form of guano which is
mostly ammonia based and easily can cause salinization in too high a
dosage. Maybe the fish effluent could be what I am looking for.
I'm planning an experiment in various strata bases: local heavy clay soil
with compost, pumice rock with compost on the ground, and individual sacks
or buckets with large enough holes to be connected to the ground. Anyone
having ideas which of these strata systems is the best, or something else-
please let me know. Also, what method of watering and fertilizing
techniques should be suggested.
Thank you,
Alon Zimmerman
Itamar settlement
Israel
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| Message 4 |
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Subject: List newbie - don't panic :)
From: Vik Olliver
Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 08:13:10 +1200
Hi folks,
I'm a relatively new hydroponics experimenter who came this way through
The Artemis Project. I've been working on hydroponics systems for use in
a Lunar environment, experimenting with ways of cutting the mass of
equipment and level of technology needed to make hydroponics work on our
moon. I'm concentrating on small scale systems first; fish farms come
later.
If you're interested in what I've set up, I've got a couple of
hydroponics articles under the "Launchpad" section of my website. One
documents how I set my system up (the "Lazy Bugger's" guide), the other
my findings in growing crops at reduced lighting levels, low
temperatures, and in lunar material simulats. Feel free to comment on
them.
My next step in the project is to attempt to construct a solar furnace
that will catalyse the formation of nitric oxides from the air. These
will be dissolved in water and reacted with plant ash to form the
nutrients for the hydroponic system. I hope!
Vik :v)
--
A member of The Olliver Family http://olliver.penguinpowered.com
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| Message 5 |
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Subject: Re: List newbie - don't panic :)
From: Jim Sealy Jr
Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 13:49:15 -0600
Hi Vik,
Welcome to the fishy side of hydroponics.
Jim
Vik Olliver wrote:
>
> Hi folks,
>
> Vik :v)
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| Message 6 |
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Subject: Free Greenhouse Heat ?
From: LEBO714
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 15:24:24 EST
Hi All,
I saw half of a cable TV program last night that dealt with
a new method of decomposing landfill material at an
accelerated rate. They basically covered the rubbish with
soil and then introduced additional water and air into the
ground by snaking 6" tubing above the ground (in 20' grids)
which somehow injected the water and air into the ground.
This caused the microbes (individual microorganisims) to
multiply at a rate far in excesss of their normal compost heap type
rate (possibly 100 times) which really heats up the stuff quick.
In the demonstration, they dug down about 3' and the temperature
was 150 degrees. There was no trashy smell, just a kind of musty
odor. They also had a smokestack tube stuck in the ground which
was spewing 150 degree smoke into the 70 degree air temp.
I thought that this (smokestack tube) might be a good method
of heating a greenhouse (with beneficial CO2 gasses as well).
They use this method to two or three times in the same ground
and thus process much more landfill in a given space.
When they are done with a site they just stop the additional
air and water and the microbes die back to their natural level.
Anyone know anything else about this method ?
Alan L.
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| Message 7 |
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Subject: RE: Missouri Aquaculture Association Annual Meeting -> pin coop.
From: "Ronald W. Brooks"
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 15:28:12 -0500
Paula
Can you give contact info about getting the pins, or do you need a large
order. I might be willing to order a large number and do a co-op type thing
if needed .
Ron
The One Who Walks Two Paths
ICQ 44271371
-> -----Original Message-----
-> From: aquaponics
-> [mailto:aquaponics]On Behalf Of S & S Aqua Farm
-> Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 1999 12:16 PM
-> To: aquaponics@townsqr.com
-> Subject: Missouri Aquaculture Association Annual Meeting
-> >>SNIP<<
-> >The reason for not offering a tilapia pin is that they do not
-> come in the
-> >small size we are offering with pre-registration. The company
-> though, does
-> >have a larger tilapia pin. If you want one, I will order it for you.
-> >Pewter is $5, 24K gold plated is $8, and hand painted is $15.
->
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| Message 8 |
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Subject: Re: Co-op seed order
From: Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 15:45:14 -0500
Yes, no luck, I'm even trying some outside now and it's not coloring up
well. Our light situation here in Florida is a killer! I've tried a
dozen varieties. Cerize, from Johnny's is a real sweetheart of a bronze
colored oakleaf. The best part is that you can re-cut for MONTHS (3-4)
without having to reseed. I've tried more than a dozen varieties...
Marc & Marcy wrote:
>
> Adriana,
> I was browsing Johnny's website. Have you tried their
> "Redina" variety?
>
> Marcy
>
> Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta wrote:
> >
> > I'm getting ready to place an order with Stokes for some Revolution
> > lettuce seed. It is THE prettiest red lettuce I've tried yet. (And
> > believe me I've tried lots of them). It's a beautiful burgundy color
> > with small very frilly leaves and a good crispy texture. It's also very
> > expensive to order in the smaller packages,, coming out to over
> > $900/#!!!!!#@$
> >
> > Once you order larger quantities you get a substantial price break,
> > cutting the cost by more than 50%. For 1/2 a pound the price is $213.25
> > and a pound is $404.75. Would anybody be interested in splitting an
> > order? I'd be happy to take care of the logistics of ordering and
> > resdistribution. If this works out we could repeat the process for
> > other varieties. Let me know by e-mail if you're interested.
> >
> > Adriana
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| Message 9 |
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Subject: Portland, OR subscribers?
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 18:47:48 -0600
Any subscribers from Portland, OR? Please email me privately if you are.
Thanks
Paula
S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO 65775 417-256-5124
Web page http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
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| Message 10 |
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Subject: Re: Co-op seed order
From: "TGTX"
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 19:21:04 -0600
> Yes, no luck, I'm even trying some outside now and it's not coloring up
> well. Our light situation here in Florida is a killer! I've tried a
> dozen varieties. Cerize, from Johnny's is a real sweetheart of a bronze
> colored oakleaf. The best part is that you can re-cut for MONTHS (3-4)
> without having to reseed. I've tried more than a dozen varieties...
Marc, Marcy, and Adriana,
I like Redina. It is not deep dark red until it receives enough UV or
strong sunlight input. A little stress makes for beauty sometimes.
Even when it is not deep dark red, I still like it. It is one of my
favorite varieties.
Ted
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| Message 11 |
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Subject: Re: using fish effluent
From: "TGTX"
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 19:37:01 -0600
Alon,
Shalom & L'Chaim (sp?) from Texas to Israel!
You wrote:
> The question is: organically how can I get much higher yields, since the
> prices are only 15-20% higher, but the yields are at least 50% less! [that
> hurts the pocket] One of the main problems in organic farming is a lack
of
> NO3 sources, most of the fertilizers appear in the form of guano which is
> mostly ammonia based and easily can cause salinization in too high a
> dosage. Maybe the fish effluent could be what I am looking for.
Yes. I agree the fish effluent is good, and the bacteria associated with
the breakdown products of the fish effluent (both dissolved and particulate)
can orchestrate the proper nutrition to the plants. Provided there is
enough oxygen, water motion (recycle rate) and growing bed surface area.
> I'm planning an experiment in various strata bases: local heavy clay soil
> with compost, pumice rock with compost on the ground, and individual sacks
> or buckets with large enough holes to be connected to the ground. Anyone
> having ideas which of these strata systems is the best, or something else-
> please let me know. Also, what method of watering and fertilizing
> techniques should be suggested.
I am still a fan of pea gravel as a growing medium. 1/4 to 3/8 inches in
diameter. My pea gravel is only about 10% carbonate material, or "acid
digestible". The remaining 90% is silicate-based alluvial mineral (granite,
quartz, etc..). Combine this with fish culture effluent and you can have a
remarkably good plant growing system, provided the dissolved oxygen content
and water flow rate is optimized. Hmm...the pumice sounds good, but how are
you draining and returning the water or, are you just drip irrigating onto
the ground with no return flow?
Good luck in all your endeavors at the Itamar settlement.
One of these days, I hope that I am able to visit Israel.
Perhaps I will be able to visit your farm?
Ted
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| Message 12 |
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Subject: Crayfish Prawn Culture- Reducing Territorial Problems.
From: "TGTX"
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 19:53:14 -0600
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Several folks have mentioned freshwater prawn or crayfish culture in =
aquaponics systems.=20
Providing structure on the bottom of the tank or pond etc. can help =
reduce territorial problems encountered with Macrobrachium rosenbergii =
and other species of aquacultured crustaceans.
Consider the following product for crustacean culture or other =
interesting aquatic habitat innovations: ]
GEOWEB is a durable High Density Polyethylene Expandable Web product =
used to stabilize hill slopes, boat launch areas, stream crossings, etc. =
It is shipped in its collapsable dimensions of about 5 inches by 8 =
inches by 11 feet, and expands with open compartments or cells into a =
grid pattern with dimensions of about 20 feet by 8 feet by 8 or 4 inches =
deep.
It is or was sold by Presto Products, Inc. Geosystems Division, P.O. =
box 2399 Appleton, Wisconsin, 54913. Phone 800-558-3525, Ext. 311. In =
Wisconsin, Phone 414-739-9471.
Ted
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Several folks have mentioned freshwater prawn or =
crayfish=20
culture in aquaponics systems.
Providing structure on the bottom of the tank or =
pond etc. can=20
help reduce territorial problems encountered with Macrobrachium =
rosenbergii and=20
other species of aquacultured crustaceans.
Consider the following product for crustacean =
culture or other=20
interesting aquatic habitat innovations: ]
GEOWEB is a durable High =
Density=20
Polyethylene Expandable Web product used to stabilize hill slopes, boat =
launch=20
areas, stream crossings, etc. It is shipped in its collapsable =
dimensions=20
of about 5 inches by 8 inches by 11 feet, and expands with open =
compartments or=20
cells into a grid pattern with dimensions of about 20 feet by 8 feet by =
8 or 4=20
inches deep.
It is or was sold by Presto Products, Inc. =
Geosystems=20
Division, P.O. box 2399 Appleton, Wisconsin, 54913. Phone =
800-558-3525,=20
Ext. 311. In Wisconsin, Phone 414-739-9471.
Ted
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Subject: Cement Product Considerations
From: "TGTX"
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 20:07:47 -0600
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In aquaponic culture systems, cement tanks or other features might be =
used to contain water for fish culture or even for growth media troughs =
or tanks for biofilters and plants.
Consider the use of "Fibermesh" as a concrete "micro-reinforcement" =
product.
"Fibermesh" brand polypropylene fibers added to concrete at the rate of =
at least 1.5 lbs per cubic yard will substantially increase the tensile =
strain capacity of concrete, reduce shrinkage cracks, and reduce water =
permeability of concrete. It also reduces the amount of reinforcement =
steel needed in the pour for certain applications. The permeability of =
concrete with 2.0 lbs fibermesh /cubic yard of concrete is substantially =
lower than the permeability of concrete with 1.0 lbs of fibermesh / =
cubic yard of concrete, and much lower than the pemeability of concrete =
with no fibermesh added to the mix. I would still recommend using a =
polyurethane or epoxy coating, or plastic film lining to the concrete at =
all culture water contact surfaces to ensure water proof conditions in =
the tank as well as inert material contact
To find out more, you can contact the Fibermesh Company, 4019 Industry =
Drive, Chattanooga, TN 37416 Phone 615 892-7243.
Ted
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In aquaponic culture systems, cement tanks or other =
features=20
might be used to contain water for fish culture or even for growth media =
troughs=20
or tanks for biofilters and plants.
Consider the use of "Fibermesh" as a concrete=20
"micro-reinforcement" product.
"Fibermesh" brand polypropylene fibers added to =
concrete at=20
the rate of at least 1.5 lbs per cubic yard will substantially increase =
the=20
tensile strain capacity of concrete, reduce shrinkage cracks, and reduce =
water=20
permeability of concrete. It also reduces the amount =
of reinforcement=20
steel needed in the pour for certain applications. The=20
permeability of concrete with 2.0 lbs fibermesh /cubic yard of concrete =
is=20
substantially lower than the permeability of concrete with 1.0 lbs of =
fibermesh=20
/ cubic yard of concrete, and much lower than the pemeability of =
concrete with=20
no fibermesh added to the mix. I would still recommend using =
a=20
polyurethane or epoxy coating, or plastic film lining to the concrete=20
at all culture water contact surfaces to ensure water proof =
conditions in=20
the tank as well as inert material contact
To find out more, you can contact the Fibermesh =
Company, 4019=20
Industry Drive, Chattanooga, TN 37416 Phone 615 892-7243.
Ted
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| Message 14 |
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Subject: Happy Trails, Adios, and Shalom, Y'all
From: "TGTX"
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 20:23:24 -0600
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Just a note to you good folks to let you know I am exiting the list for =
the time being.
Thanks for all the discussion and dialog. I have enjoyed it and I have =
been educated by it.
Hope you all do great things and may you all enjoy the fruits of your =
labors in the greenhouse or elsewhere. Until next time.
Happy Trails, Adios, and Shalom, Y'all.
Ted
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Just a note to you good folks to let you know I =
am=20
exiting the list for the time being.
Thanks for all the discussion and dialog. I =
have enjoyed=20
it and I have been educated by it.
Hope you all do great things and may you all enjoy =
the fruits=20
of your labors in the greenhouse or elsewhere. Until next=20
time.
Happy Trails, Adios, and Shalom, Y'all.
Ted
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| Message 15 |
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Subject: Re: Co-op seed order
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 22:40:09 -0600
At 11:01 AM 12/01/1999 -0700, you wrote:
>Adriana,
>I was browsing Johnny's website. Have you tried their
>"Redina" variety?
>
>Marcy
Adriana wrote:
>Yes, no luck, I'm even trying some outside now and it's not coloring up
>well. Our light situation here in Florida is a killer! I've tried a
>dozen varieties. Cerize, from Johnny's is a real sweetheart of a bronze
>colored oakleaf. The best part is that you can re-cut for MONTHS (3-4)
>without having to reseed. I've tried more than a dozen varieties...
>
Ted wrote:
>I like Redina. It is not deep dark red until it receives enough UV or
>strong sunlight input. A little stress makes for beauty sometimes.
>
>Even when it is not deep dark red, I still like it. It is one of my
>favorite varieties.
I also like the Redina - it regrows quickly and was a good producer for us.
The most vibrant reds came through the winter, but even the less dark red is
a very attractive contrast lettuce.
Paula
S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO 65775 417-256-5124
Web page http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
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| Message 16 |
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Subject: Re: Crayfish Prawn Culture- Reducing Territorial Problems.
From: Bagelhole1
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 23:55:40 EST
In a message dated 12/2/99 2:58:01 AM, ground@thrifty.net writes:
Consider the following product for crustacean culture or other interesting
aquatic habitat innovations: ]
GEOWEB
But what about dirt on top of plastic lined trenches with aquatic plants
(water hyacinth, watercress, etc)? Wouldn't that work with crayfish, clams,
and fish?
Tom O (bagelhole1)
http://bagelhole.org
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