Aquaponics Digest - Thu 12/09/99
Message 1: Re: Spinach germination
from Jeff
Message 2: Re: Spinach germination
from Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Message 3: Re: Copper - was Aloha
from ESohm
Message 4: Re: Seeding
from S & S Aqua Farm
Message 5: Spinach, Hydro Links
from Bill
Message 6: Spinach, Hydro Links
from Bill
Message 7: Dealing with wholesalers
from Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Message 8: More thoughts on wholesalers + packaging question
from Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Message 9: Re: garlic shoots
from Vik Olliver
Message 10: Packageing
from Peggy & Emmett
Message 11: Re: Packaging
from Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Message 12: Re: Spinach germination
from Dave Miller
Message 13: Packaging
from Peggy & Emmett
Message 14: Re: Packaging
from Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Message 15: (no subject)
from Shyloah
Message 16: Re: Packaging
from S & S Aqua Farm
Message 17: Re: fish feed aloha
from Bertmcl
Message 18: Re: fish feed aloha
from Jim Sealy Jr
Message 19: Re: fish feed aloha
from dbenhart@essex1.com (David Benhart)
Message 20: Re: Packaging
from Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Message 21: "Alex ,I'll take "FISH FOOD" for 1000.....Re: fish feed aloha
from William Evans
Message 22: fish feed
from Shyloah
Message 23: Re: Spinach germination
from Jeff
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| Message 1 |
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Subject: Re: Spinach germination
From: Jeff
Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 05:21:22 -0700
Ronald Polka wrote:
>
> I have recently tried to germinate spinach for a floating raft system but
> have had dismal results regarding the germination rate. I switched to
> distilled water but saw no improvement. I have read of spinach seed
> treatments that work well but require chemicals that are not readily
> available and are expensive. Does anyone have any suggestions for spinach
> seed germination treatments that are relatively simple yet effective. TIA
> for any suggestions.
>
> Ron Polka
> Southwest Technology Development Institute
> New Mexico State University
> Box 30001, Dept 3SOL
> Las Cruces, NM 88003
> rpolka@nmsu.edu
try placing the seed in a sealed plastic bag with an apple or two. When
apples ripen they give off actylene(spelling?) gas which helps
germination of seeds. I have recently tried this and it seems to make a
difference with my spinach germination rate.
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Subject: Re: Spinach germination
From: Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 11:50:39 -0500
Ron,
According to Gordon Creaser, getting spinach to germinate is a classic
problem which field growers overcome by massive overseeding. Is the gas
given off by the apples the same one used to ripen bananas?
Adriana
> try placing the seed in a sealed plastic bag with an apple or two. When
> apples ripen they give off actylene(spelling?) gas which helps
> germination of seeds.
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| Message 3 |
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Subject: Re: Copper - was Aloha
From: ESohm
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 12:39:23 EST
Rf copper may have a protective lacquer coating on it which would act like an
insulator.
Evan
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Subject: Re: Seeding
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 11:39:47 -0600
At 07:15 AM 12/08/1999 -0600, Jay wrote:
>Paula
>
>Do you seed crops like lettuce and basil directly into your pea gravel ?
We do, and each has a little different "behavior". You can generally expect
good germination in the gravel, but you'll have to be sure to cover your
lettuce seeds - most of them are shaped like little boats and can't wait for
the chance to float away should your bed water level get too high. As long
as you pinch some gravel over the top, you'll be fine.
Basil, on the other hand, has such a thick gel coat that you can germinate
on top the gravel if you want. Just be sure to wet the seeds when you put
them out - you'll see the get coat soften almost immediately and adhere to
the gravel, holding the seeds in place. I usually seed real thickly, then
take the healthiest of the "starts" for transplanting.
Don't forget that basil will want higher air temps than your lettuces for
good growth. Low temperatures will make the basils susceptible to all kinds
of problems.
>Solved my pumping problems and gas water heaters being installed Thursday,
>so I'm maybe a week away from fish.
>
>Jay
Hurray for you!! Keep us posted.
Paula
S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO 65775 417-256-5124
Web page http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
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Subject: Spinach, Hydro Links
From: Bill
Date: 9 Dec 99 09:55:12 PST
>>Subject: Spinach germination
... Does anyone have any suggestions for spinach seed germination treatm=
ents
that are relatively simple yet effectiveRon Polka
>Subject: Re: Spinach germination
in cool location. cooler weather crop. friend tried =
rockwool NFT but too warm in the greenhouse.
Marlan
*Ortho says 70 optimim, 75 max, 32 minimum.
(soil temp for germination, best error on low side of 70?)
Bill
-----------------------
>Subject:Also could use info on sources for making or buying an indoor sm=
aller
aquapoonics system. Thank you
Lee
*Compiling a list
(Would like others also, folks...
A sustainable school has requested links.)
Will send it direct, Lee, or others.
Bill
____________________________________________________________________
Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://webm=
ail.netscape.com.
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Subject: Spinach, Hydro Links
From: Bill
Date: 9 Dec 99 10:20:58 PST
>Subject: Spinach germination
From: Ronald Polka
>Does anyone have any suggestions for spinach
seed germination treatments that are relatively simple yet effective.
Ron Polka
rpolka@nmsu.edu
----
>try cool location. cooler weather crop.
friend tried rockwool NFT but too warm in greenhouse.
Marlan
* Ortho says for siol germination, 32 min, 70 ideal, 75 max.
------------------------------
Subject: fish feed
Also could use info on sources for making or buying an indoor smaller =
aquapoonics system. Thank you Lee
(Was afraid TIA [Thank You in Advance] was 'To Individual Addressor')
Had to look it up. lol
Have a list I'll send direct.
I'd like more, folks, for myself and a sustainable school effort
which an organization has asked for. Once a list of links is made, I cou=
ld
post it for a neat FAQ entry, rather than scattered.
Bill
____________________________________________________________________
Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://webm=
ail.netscape.com.
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Subject: Dealing with wholesalers
From: Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 12:58:31 -0500
In planning ahead for the next year I'm considering trying to produce
larger volumes of a few selected greens and marketing through a
specialty wholesaler. I've asked my chefs to recommend a wholesaler.
Now that I have one identified, can you give me any advice on
establishing a relationship with them, including:
- My first telephone calls have gone unanswered. My thought is to
treat them like I do chefs and ask the receptionist if I could drop off
a sample for them to look at.
- What is the best way to approach them and present them with my
products - for example, I find that my chefs are very dissatisfied with
the quality of the arugula that they get from the wholesalers. They are
delighted to have excellent, clean, fresh unblemished arugula available
and are happy to pay a premium for it. My theory is that the wholesaler
should also be happy to substitute the inferior product that he is
carrying if he can find a reliable source, correct?
-What can I expect in terms of price - I'm comfortable with what our
market will bear at the end-user level. What is a typical or reasonable
mark-up for wholesaling of specialty items?
Any advice would be appreciated.
Adriana
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Subject: More thoughts on wholesalers + packaging question
From: Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 13:48:30 -0500
Here are a couple of more thoughts on dealing with a prospective
wholesaler.
I have in mind an approach to help him or her penetrate the target
market with my products. In the case of established products like
arugula or tarragon, I suspect that simply providing them with samples
which they can distribute to established customers should be sufficient.
In the case of introduction of new products which are new to the area
such as unusual oriental greens, what is the usual modus operandi of
produce wholesalers:
1. Samples plus product information
2. Samples plus recipe suggestions
3. Visits to prospective customers with the wholesaler's sales rep to
introduce the product (and train the rep)
4. Setting up a demonstration somewhere and inviting the local chefs
5. Making contact with the local chef's organization
6. All of the above
On a different topic, I'm looking for a packaging alternative to plastic
bags or Ziplocks which will hold 1# of greens like tatsoi, mizuna or pea
vines. The ideal package would be a clear plastic box about the size of
a larfe shoe box. It would similar to the containers used for takeout
salads. I've contacted several packaging representatives and it appears
that there is no stock item this size. My objectives in switching to
this package are:
1. Protect the product in storage from crushing whle providing good
shelf life, this requires a good seal
2. Allow chefs to stack it in their cooler, keeping them from getting
lost behind other thngs
3. Provide a good presentation to justify a premium price
So far the largest container I've been able to locate holds one gallon,
which will only accomodate maybe half a pound. (With the exception of
muffin containers which have a domed lid which is not appropriate) Does
anybody have any suggestions on alternative packaging or suppliers to
check with?
Adriana
Adriana
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Subject: Re: garlic shoots
From: Vik Olliver
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 08:11:23 +1200
Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta wrote:
> So...in order to qualify for your project the plants have to be "out of
> this world"? I assume you're familar with NASA's Controlled Ecological
> Life Support Systems studies of various plants?
Yup, the CELSS website was most useful. I take a slightly different
approach to the problem than they do: I think it may be possible to use
locally manufacture materials to produce a better payback than their
figures suggest, and there are problems with maintining plants through
the lunar night with limited power supplies that need solving. The
recycling system I have in mind is slightly different too, and I hope to
be able to test some prototypes this (NZ) summer.
Vik :v)
--
A member of The Olliver Family http://olliver.penguinpowered.com
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Subject: Packageing
From: Peggy & Emmett
Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 15:05:50 -0500
Adriana,
Try www.montepkg.com they have variously shaped one quart clam-shell
containers.
On another note I think it ethylene gas that's given off by ripening
apples..Em
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Subject: Re: Packaging
From: Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 15:27:33 -0500
> Try www.montepkg.com they have variously shaped one quart clam-shell
> containers.
I already buy my boxes from Monte so that was the first place I checked.
What I'm looking for in the way of "clamshells" is more in the 6 qt
size, which as far as I can tell doesn't exist unless you have it made
as a special-order, where you pay set-up charges, etc., etc. big
$$$...The large sizes that DO exist are intended for bakery items and do
not provide an airtight seal.
> On another note I think it ethylene gas that's given off by ripening
> apples..Em
I think you're right. Acetylene is used in torches...
How are your tomatoes, fish, greenhouse, etc. coming along?
Adriana
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Subject: Re: Spinach germination
From: Dave Miller
Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 16:15:35 -0500
Ethylene is the gas
--
_______________________________________
«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
A remodeler, drummer, Kindred Spirit...
Put a pebble in your pocket and a penny in your shoe!
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Subject: Packaging
From: Peggy & Emmett
Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 18:05:10 -0500
Adriana,
A friend of mine has a Food Saver. She buys the bulk rolls and fits the
size of the bag to the need. She could package a whole mackerel if need
be. I don't know how the package would look but bulk buyers are not
probably very particular. Especially if the vacuum sealing were stressed
giving your product greater shelf life. If you think this is worth trying,
and you haven't access to a Food Saver, come on up and I'll impose on my
friend. She's a close friend and know she wouldn't mind. And if you do
come up----well the rate at which the greenhouse is
progressing-----hmmmmmmm---at this rate the Lord might be coming back for
the second time before I get it finished....Em
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Subject: Re: Packaging
From: Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 18:19:32 -0500
Emmett,
I think we discussed vacuum packing before and the consclusion is that
it hurts the greens. I'm trying to avoid bags which can get lost and/or
crushed by big produce boxes in coolers. That's why I'm looking into
the clear boxes. When somebody is paying $12-15/# for "fancy greens" he
IS particular (I use the word passionate) and deserves a fancier
package, I believe.
> A friend of mine has a Food Saver. She buys the bulk rolls and fits the
> size of the bag to the need. She could package a whole mackerel if need
> be. I don't know how the package would look but bulk buyers are not
> probably very particular.
Especially if the vacuum sealing were stressed
> giving your product greater shelf life.
My stuff has at least a 7 day shelf life amd I deliver up to 3 x a week
so shelf life is not really an issue.
Are you aware of the Open House at the Suwanee Valley Extension Service
office on January 8? There will be educational programs on Specialty
produce and direct marketing. I'm planning to go. Let me know if
you're interested.
Adriana
(sounds like you need to fire your contractor and get a whole new labor
force :>)
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Subject: (no subject)
From: Shyloah
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 18:36:42 EST
Thankyou for the information you are sharing.
Enjoying the message group.
Thanks
Lee
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Subject: Re: Packaging
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 18:05:17 -0600
Sorry I haven't kept up on this thread (and it will be hours before I get
back here), but you might want to check out Berlin Packaging's website:
http://www.berlinpackaging.com
I don't have a current catalog in front of me, but they carry all types of
food packaging items and don't have minimum order restrictions. And if they
have something you think would work they're usually willing to send samples.
Paula
S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO 65775 417-256-5124
Web page http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
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Subject: Re: fish feed aloha
From: Bertmcl
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 19:16:55 EST
Tilipia LOVE "Duck Weed" my brother calls it "Tilipia Ice cream" . I want to
set a couple of aquariums and feed one regular fish feed and the other Duck
Weed and compare the growth rates, etc. this may be still a month away
depending on availablity of some FRY. I will let you know the results.
If anyone is interested in trying some Duck Weed please send me an E-Mail.
Keep up the good work.
Bert
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Subject: Re: fish feed aloha
From: Jim Sealy Jr
Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 19:07:24 -0600
Judging by how well a few white carp keep it cleaned out of our catfish
ponds, duckweed won't be a very practical feed from a surface area
standpoint. I've looked into using something which doesn't require light
to grow as a home grown feed. Possibly growing fungi, yeast, or bacteria
of some sort _under_ the plant tables.
I'm working on getting the recycling rights for waste from the FedEx
WorldHub for use with my vermiculture project, but that could end up a
little overly ambitious since it's a matter of several tons per day
worth of paper (preshredded) and ~350 gal of food waste from the
cafeteria (12,000 employees) which is actually a lot less than I
expected, but more than I can handle now without more employees. What
would I do with 300 tons of red worms/year, much les all those castings
they'd produce. Nice problem to have though, don't you think?
Jim
Bertmcl wrote:
>
> Tilipia LOVE "Duck Weed" my brother calls it "Tilipia Ice cream" . I want to
> set a couple of aquariums and feed one regular fish feed and the other Duck
> Weed and compare the growth rates, etc. this may be still a month away
> depending on availablity of some FRY. I will let you know the results.
>
> If anyone is interested in trying some Duck Weed please send me an E-Mail.
>
> Keep up the good work.
>
> Bert
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Subject: Re: fish feed aloha
From: dbenhart@essex1.com (David Benhart)
Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 19:21:44 -0800
WOW Jim
Lets go fishing!!!!!!!
Jim Sealy Jr wrote:
> Judging by how well a few white carp keep it cleaned out of our catfish
> ponds, duckweed won't be a very practical feed from a surface area
> standpoint. I've looked into using something which doesn't require light
> to grow as a home grown feed. Possibly growing fungi, yeast, or bacteria
> of some sort _under_ the plant tables.
> I'm working on getting the recycling rights for waste from the FedEx
> WorldHub for use with my vermiculture project, but that could end up a
> little overly ambitious since it's a matter of several tons per day
> worth of paper (preshredded) and ~350 gal of food waste from the
> cafeteria (12,000 employees) which is actually a lot less than I
> expected, but more than I can handle now without more employees. What
> would I do with 300 tons of red worms/year, much les all those castings
> they'd produce. Nice problem to have though, don't you think?
> Jim
>
> Bertmcl wrote:
> >
> > Tilipia LOVE "Duck Weed" my brother calls it "Tilipia Ice cream" . I want to
> > set a couple of aquariums and feed one regular fish feed and the other Duck
> > Weed and compare the growth rates, etc. this may be still a month away
> > depending on availablity of some FRY. I will let you know the results.
> >
> > If anyone is interested in trying some Duck Weed please send me an E-Mail.
> >
> > Keep up the good work.
> >
> > Bert
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Subject: Re: Packaging
From: Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 21:00:12 -0500
Thanks Paula,
I wasn't familiar with Berlin.
Adriana
> back here), but you might want to check out Berlin Packaging's website:
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Subject: "Alex ,I'll take "FISH FOOD" for 1000.....Re: fish feed aloha
From: William Evans
Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 18:50:29 -0800
s. What
> would I do with 300 tons of red worms/year,
what is 'the best fish food'?
(applause)
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Subject: fish feed
From: Shyloah
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 22:16:59 EST
Would the worms come from composting the FedEx waste? I believe worm
castings sell well and are good for starting bedding plants (organic).
? What are the basic elements of a fish diet?-- plants and animals (worms and
insects and possibly some fish). I guess the question is - how can you
increase the concentration of fish and feed them close to naturally.
Any info on what one would need to mix a fish food.
Thanks
Lee
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Subject: Re: Spinach germination
From: Jeff
Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 20:50:35 -0700
Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta wrote:
>
> Ron,
>
> According to Gordon Creaser, getting spinach to germinate is a classic
> problem which field growers overcome by massive overseeding. Is the gas
> given off by the apples the same one used to ripen bananas?
>
> Adriana
>
> > try placing the seed in a sealed plastic bag with an apple or two. When
> > apples ripen they give off actylene(spelling?) gas which helps
> > germination of seeds.
yes same one
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