Aquaponics Digest - Wed 04/11/01
Message 1: Fwd. NH workshop
from S & S Aqua Farm
Message 2: Fwd. article Kentucky Provides $2 million for Aquaculture
from S & S Aqua Farm
Message 3: Fwd. 7th Annual Aquaculture Water Reuse Systems Short Course
from S & S Aqua Farm
Message 4: RE: update
from "Devon Williams"
Message 5: RE: update & LED 'at' s
from "Devon Williams"
Message 6: Re: Cleaning Grow Beds in S&S system was: Steve, change your underwear!!
from "STEVE SPRING"
Message 7: re: update
from "Devon Williams"
Message 8: Re: Cleaning Grow Beds in S&S system was: Steve, change your underwear!!
from "STEVE SPRING"
Message 9: Re: Cleaning Grow Beds in S&S system was: Steve, change your underwear!!
from "Adriana Gutierrez"
Message 10: Re: Cleaning Grow Beds in S&S system was: Steve, change your underwear!!
from RalphMcl 'at' aol.com
Message 11: Re: Polytanks leaching?
from spettels 'at' newnorth.net
Message 12: RE: update & LED 'at' s
from "Hurst, Steve ( China)"
Message 13: Re: Cleaning Grow Beds in S&S system
from Peggy & Emmett
Message 14: Re: Cleaning Grow Beds in S&S system
from "TGTX"
Message 15: White LEDs
from Brian Gracia
Message 16: RE: White LEDs
from "Hurst, Steve ( China)"
| Message 1
Subject: Fwd. NH workshop
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 06:02:18 -0500
Aquaculture "Down Cellar"
Friday, April 20, 2001
10 AM - 4 PM
Kingman Farm
University of New Hampshire
Route 155, Madbury, NH
A day-long workshop for beginners who are interested in raising a small
number of fish - either just to feed the family, or to learn how to grow
fish without spending a lot of money to do so. The morning session will
cover how to grow fish, how these small systems work, keeping your fish
healthy, and sources of fish, feed and supplies. Lunch will be provided.
In the afternoon, different small-scale fish culture systems will be
demonstrated, followed by a hands-on session where interested participants
will build their own systems to take home. The cost is $30/person or
$50/couple. There is also an optional lab fee of $140 if you wish to build
a system that day to take home with you. Call 603/749-1565 to register and
for directions.
***************************************
J-J Newman
Extension Specialist, Aquaculture
UNH Cooperative Extension
Kingman Farm
Durham, NH 03824
>><{{{(*> >><{{{(*> >><{{{(*>
Phone: (603) 749-1565
Fax: (603) 743-3997
Email: jj.newman 'at' unh.edu
***************************************
| Message 2
Subject: Fwd. article Kentucky Provides $2 million for Aquaculture
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 06:04:53 -0500
Don't know that this will cover any types of recirculating systems, but
here's what's going on in Kentucky. Paula
----------------------------
>Kentucky Provides $2 million for Aquaculture
>Business First
>Story Posted On: 04-02-2001
>http://www.aquaculture.com
>
>
>Kentucky farmers interested in growing fish rather than more traditional
>corn or tobacco crops are now eligible to receive one-time reimbursements
>to
>help get started, the state announced in a news release.
>
>As part of the Kentucky Aquaculture Production System Grant Program, the
>state will pay farmers up to $26,000 each in reimbursements to cover
>expenses for aquaculture production ponds and flow-through systems. The
>state announced that $2 million appropriated for the program became
>available on April 1.
>
>"The availability of these funds will help Kentucky's farmers to further
>diversify their agricultural operations and take advantage of the
>fast-growing market for aquaculture products," Gov. Paul Patton said in the
>release. "The Aquaculture Infrastructure appropriation will also make
>investments in industry infrastructure necessary to expand the state's
>aquaculture production."
>
>During last year's session of the state's General Assembly, $4 million was
>appropriated for the development of the aquaculture industry, the release
>said. The remaining funds will be invested to develop infrastructure such
>as
>hatcheries and processing facilities, it said.
| Message 3
Subject: Fwd. 7th Annual Aquaculture Water Reuse Systems Short Course
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 06:24:55 -0500
>Please distribute the following notice to others who may have an interest.
>
>Gary Jensen
>USDA-CSREES
>_____________________________________________
>
>
>Cornell University and The Freshwater Institute
>7th Annual Aquaculture Water Reuse Systems Short Course
>July 17 - 20, 2001; 8:30 am - 5:00 pm
>"Hands-On" or "Distance Learning"
>
>Location: The Freshwater Institute, RR1, Box 256 Turner Road,
>Shepherdstown, WV 25443
>
>Cost: "Hands-On" - $700.00. Covers course materials, daily breakfasts,
>lunches and a banquet dinner. Requires pre-registration and deposit of
>$250.00 by June 8, 2001. Limited enrollment.
>
>"Distance Learning" - $175.00 (discounted from the regular fee of $350.00
>for first time offer). Covers CD Rom and book prior to course.
>Participation in daily instructor chat room and video observation of labs
>requires Internet access (student option). Requires pre-registration by
>July 10, 2001. Unlimited enrollment.
>
>Website: http://www.aben.cornell.edu/shortcourse/
>
>
>Contact: Brenda Snowberger, Cornell University, Phone: (607) 255-2495, Fax:
>(607) 255-4080, e-mail: bls19 'at' cornell.edu
>
>Course Instructors: Dr. Michael Timmons of Cornell University; Dr. Steven
>Summerfelt, Brian Vinci, and Dr. James Ebeling of The Freshwater Institute.
>
| Message 4
Subject: RE: update
From: "Devon Williams"
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 08:26:43 -0400
What, do you mean to tell me that NASA uses expensive technology??? ;-)
>From: "billevans"
>Reply-To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
>To:
>Subject: RE: update
>Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 14:10:43 -0700
>
>
>(http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2001/ast09apr_1.htm?list47198) about
>growing plants in space and saw that they use LEDs to provide the necessary
>light for the plants. Sounded really cool!
>
>
>.... and really $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
>
_
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
| Message 5
Subject: RE: update & LED 'at' s
From: "Devon Williams"
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 08:31:31 -0400
Steve, how expensive are the LEDs that you get?
>From: "Hurst, Steve ( China)"
>Reply-To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
>To: "'aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com'"
>Subject: RE: update & LED 'at' s
>Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 02:12:01 +0100
>
>Devon,
> I have been experimenting with LED 'at' s as a source of light for Solar
>Lighting. You can obtain these now in Super Bright and Ultra Super Bright
>types. They are arranged in small clusters or grids for maximum
>effectiveness.
>They are so bright you cannot look at them, and very little power
>consumption,
>with very little heat generated.
>I am just at an "experimenter stage", so cannot help to much on this.
>
>I obtained mine from a british company that distributes all over the world.
>They do almost exactly the same range of items as the US "Radio Shack"
>company.
>The supplier I use is "RS Components". Their website gives a host of
>technical
>info on all their products, including these LED 'at' s, although you will have
>to
>register
>to access the technical library ( free)
>http://www.rswww.com/
>
>Can 'at' t help on the Radio Shack site
>
>Steve H
>
_
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
| Message 6
Subject: Re: Cleaning Grow Beds in S&S system was: Steve, change your underwear!!
From: "STEVE SPRING"
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 10:23:50 -0500
Hi Bill,
(Breaking my Cardinal rule again.....responding to email when I'm
tiredbut, I work so much, I'm tired all of the time.....so what the
heck!)
I don't know what Paula's response to your question is. I'm just kind of
answering questions as I scroll down.
I have an awful lot of "sludge" buildup in my systems plumbing. I'm trying
to remember what your statement was, maybe Steve's system wasn't "tuned in
yet". My system has been operating for almost a year. I just find that the
beds need to be cleaned out. And, yes, I do run a clarifier between the
tanks.
I sometimes run into unique problems....don't know why...just blessed I
guess. I know Adrianna and Ted (TGTX) talk about the wonderful tomatos they
grow in their aquaponic systems. (I don't have their success.) I just spent
close to $1,000 on a greenhouse and another $300 on Earthboxes because I
want to grow tomatoes in the wintertime in Wisconsin. I CANNOT get tomatoes
to grow in an aquaponic system.
Just to let you know that I am not a total beginner and I'm not afraid to
spend the $ if I can find something that will work.
Yours truly..Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Patrick"
To:
Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 6:58 PM
Subject: Cleaning Grow Beds in S&S system was: Steve, change your
underwear!!
Is this always the case for the S&S system? Or is Steve's system just
not "tuned in" yet? Not using a sludge collection (settling) tank is
one of the distinguishing feature of the S&S system. It has been my
understanding that pumping the solids into the grow beds made more
nutrients available to the plants as the solids were decomposed in the
beds and the solids then just sort of took care of themselves. If the
beds need to be cleaned, how often should we plan on doing this?
Thanks,
Bill Patrick
> I spent about 6 hours cleaning "unbelievable sludge" from the growbeds.
>
> Since that day, which is now almost 2 weeks ago, I have not made a water
> change, my nitrate/nitrite level is way down, my DO is way up, my water
> clarity is unbelievable. It (the water) is that healthy "tea brown" which
> Dr. J. refers to. The fish are eating like never before. My facility
smells
> better. The tomatos that I could never get to grow are growing. The
lettuce
> seeds that I planted 3 days ago are sprouting. (I continue to be amazed!!)
>
> SO THIS IS, NO ONE TOLD ME TO DO THIS!
>
> So, the S&S system works beautifully. You just have to keep it clean.(Kind
> of a "no brainer". But, if you don't know this, then you can have problems
> that will drive you crazy. I know they did to me.)
>
> Steve
| Message 7
Subject: re: update
From: "Devon Williams"
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 11:37:41 -0400
Thanks, dwilliamsx6 (don't know your actual name). I hadn't thought of
that. I get the impression from the NASA site that the LEDs they are using
are red, so this shouldn't pose too much of a problem...
Devon
>From: "dwilliamsx6"
>Reply-To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
>To: "aquaponicslist"
>Subject: re: update
>Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 19:26:21 -0400
>
>Devon, here is a possible source for LED lights. Most of the later model
>cars and suv's are using led's for the high mounted stop lamps. Some models
>have up to 40 led's in the assembly. An inexpensive source could be junk
>yards. They are also designed to work on 12 volts, so a small solar unit
>could power them. Only drawback is they are usually red. Hope this helps..
_
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
| Message 8
Subject: Re: Cleaning Grow Beds in S&S system was: Steve, change your underwear!!
From: "STEVE SPRING"
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 10:42:24 -0500
WOW Ted,
That was way too much to assimilate in one setting. I suggest we have some
"fried chicken and turnips" before we try this again. I just finally solved
my D.O. problem, by cheating with an O2 concentrator. Also, my water
clarity, somewhat. AND THEN YOU SEND ME "E=MC2" to comprehend in one quick
message.
I'm going to print out your response to see if I can understand some of it.
I'd like to talk to you sometime.
Take care my friend. (By the way, I was suitably impressed that you and your
wife home-school your kids. Very good!)
Later my friend...save some bluebonnets for me....Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "TGTX"
To:
Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 9:08 PM
Subject: Re: Cleaning Grow Beds in S&S system was: Steve, change your
underwear!!
Bill,
The answer to your VERY insightful question, at the risk of my sounding like
an attorney, "depends". There are a number of sources within the system
that generate what we are loosely....perhaps Too Loosely....(wasn't he a
French painter?) calling sludge. Some sludge can be decomposed and
assimilated, but some kinds of sludge are tougher than other types. That
might be the title of my next album....."Tough Sludge, One Heart, Let's Get
Together and I'll Feel All Right" (apologies to Bob M.)
The fish feed itself may have "refractory" materials incorporated into the
formula, such as bentonite clay, or lignins, which are used as binders to
hold the feed pellet together in the water column until the fish can ingest
it..... and these binders, as I understand it, can also help to increase the
particle size of the feces, being relatively effective in performing the
same particle binding work throughout the passage of the feed through the
fish's gut.. thus increasing ability to sediment particulates
out....200 microns and bigger....or within that range... is a good thing to
shoot for in excreted fish feces solids cause it helps in recirc
systems....This is my reading of the literature I am familiar with.
But what do I know?
So, if your feed has these refractory binders in it, you may experience more
of this muddy sludge accumulation over time. Not much you can do other than
flush it out of the grow bed by having a separate flush line from the grow
bed that does not return that accumulating problem material back to the
fish tank...are you with me?
"Refractory" means relatively resistant to breakdown and
decompostion...there are feed binders that are less refractory, that is,
more prone to breaking down biologically, than other binders. I will stop
there on that particular subject, cause I am getting into STATE SECRET
territory ;-).
If the pore size of the growth media is TOOtsSMALL (Not a French Painter,
but perhaps a Reggae Artist), one may find that the sludge is captured and
not accessible to high oxygen attack from the ebb and flow system of
repetitive flooding and aeration, and the subsequent organic carbon
decompostion due to high oxygen "aquatic aerobic composting processes", and
thus, it accumulates. So, if the pore space of the growing media is too
small, sludge can build up. Surface tension of water itself, and the
sticky-ness of the biofilm come into play here on scales of typical pore
sizes.
On the other hand, if the pore space is too big, suspended solids can
readily pass through the system without some of them being captured onto the
surface area of the gravel....this has to do with a concept common to gas
chromatography, known as mean free path.....but.....if there is an actively
growing "series" of plants along a long biofilter path, then the roots
themselves can act in bio-chaotic ways as "the difference" between the big
pores of the gravel and the sometimes too small pores of the root
hairs.....Root hairs and root vascular systems are optimally designed, by
you know Who, me thinks, to occupy the pores of the substrate that they are
growing in. I am of the opinion that pore size in the growing media should
have a fairly narrow "optimal" range which balances aeration, hydraulics,
and filtration toward maximum decomposition of non-refractory solids.
Other sources of sludge build-up have to do with surface algae growing on
the surface of the gravel when plants do not shade the surface sufficiently.
There is a feedback loop here that is very interesting. If a region of the
surface of the pea gravel grow bed is not shaded quickly.....by rapid
germination of plants....and this germination is inhibited due to pooling of
the water on the surface of the gravel...which is in turn due to local
excesses of solids pumped to the gravel from the fish tank...then you can
get a runaway effect if you don't come in and disrupt the surface
"biocrust"and maintain the highly porous nature of the gravel as the design
is intended.... .
Let me re-state that. If solids are allowed to accumulate in local zones on
the surface of the grow bed... now this is right on the surface, you see,
where the surface tension of water comes into play pretty heavily....you
see. you will get localized pooling of water which results in the
water taking longer to dissipate that on average, and which will, over the
course of a few days, inhibit the germination and rapid growth of seeds sown
directly on that particular area...see? And then you can have an
accumulation effect. The take home message is to churn up the gravel and
break the "biocrusts" as often as is neccesary. Maintain the water
distribution pipes and the position of those pipes on the grow beds, so that
solids are not overly clogging the gravel pores in certain areas of the grow
beds. Don't overfeed the fish. Maintain a good ratio of fish and fish feed
and plants to gravel volume. There are all kinds of factors to optimize and
play with until you hit the "sweet spot".
You may have to flush the grow beds a few times if you accumulate solids too
much....if your system dimensions.....the relative volumes....the fish
biomass...the plant areas....the feed rates...the pumping rates....etc....
are set and fixed, you may have to continually or periodically do the solids
flush thing. If you can vary these and still operate things the way you
like, then there is the adventureThis is not readily described before
hand in this format. I advise you watch and take care and operate it until
it gets good to you and then you start leaning into it like riding a Heart
of Gold Motorcycle up the rocky, switch back road to Heaven.
Joy.
Ted.
(Just now harvesting dozens of vigorous "Yellow Roses of Texas" from the
flower beds this spring....they are luminous as the poets say....and
beautiful beyond words...wish I could share them with you all...)
| Message 9
Subject: Re: Cleaning Grow Beds in S&S system was: Steve, change your underwear!!
From: "Adriana Gutierrez"
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 10:53:51 -0500
Steve,
Yes, you're tired...I've been on this list for more than two years and
the subject of sludge build-up comes up regaularly as new operations
are set up. I had always assumed that Paula and Tom's system is so
perfectly fine tuned, balancing fish production plants, make-up water
composition, cultivation/bed clearing techniques and other
environmental factors "just-so" to make it work beautifully. It is
probably impossible to exactly replicate their conditons unless you
set up an identical operation right next door to them. So it is not
inconceivable that a similar or even identical operation (right down
to crop mix) might generate a sludge build-up because of some minor
difference in environmental factors, etc, in which case you can either
keep fiddling with the various factors until you hopefully achieve
Nirvana or, plan to put in a clarifier into your process.
Ted made a very interesting comment which has never come up in the
past 2+ years that I've monitored this list and I'm surprised that it
hasn't generated more follow-up discussion. That is his comment
about the different "binders" used by fish feed manufacturers. It
sounds logical to me that this could have a HUGE impact on the nature
and amount of sludge produced. This would certainly be an intersting
study project; I suspect different aquaponic growers get their feed
from a variety of sources which probably accounts for a major portion
of the different results that people are experiencing.
> I have an awful lot of "sludge" buildup in my systems plumbing. I'm
trying
> to remember what your statement was, maybe Steve's system wasn't
"tuned in
> yet". My system has been operating for almost a year. I just find
that the
> beds need to be cleaned out. And, yes, I do run a clarifier between
the
> tanks.
Let me correct something, I don't have fish at all, my growing method
is hydroponic and I have grown tomatoes in a variety of slapdah
(home-rigged hydro systems). My understanding is that you can grow
tomatoes aquaponically but the yields will be lower because the
nutrients aren't as high as optimal tomato production demands. I have
seen aquaponic tomatoes growing in Keyser VoTech in West Virginia; if
you are experiencing yield problems you may need to supplement the
aquaponic nutrients. I don't think the Earth Box itself will be the
critical component, but rather the nutrient. (By the way I have an
EarthBox and I think you can do just as well with other options that
are not so costly)
> guess. I know Adrianna and Ted (TGTX) talk about the wonderful
tomatos they
> grow in their aquaponic systems. (I don't have their success.) I
just spent
> close to $1,000 on a greenhouse and another $300 on Earthboxes
because I
> want to grow tomatoes in the wintertime in Wisconsin. I CANNOT get
tomatoes
> to grow in an aquaponic system.
One final note on the issue of aquaponic nutrients and sludge
build-up...Part of the intellectual appeal of the the S & S aquaponic
system is the beauty of the exquisite balance between the fish
production and the plants. As elegant as this set-up is, it may have
some drawbacks. I have become convinced that "unlinking" plant and
fish production and biodigest your solids may provide a superior
system in terms of flexibility and yields. The key to "unlinking
systems" is to be able to process and store the solids from the fish
beds. (I believe that Raul Vergueiro Martins has fine tuned the
biodigestion process to accomplish this effectively). In this manner
you can avoid the pitfalls of sludge build-up and gain much greater
flexibility on the plant production side. You will also be buffered in
case of a "crash" on either side of the system. I will post a
separate e-mail going into this subject in more detail under the
header "Unlinking Systems". I would like to hear your reactions and
your input to my ideas on this.
Adriana
| Message 10
Subject: Re: Cleaning Grow Beds in S&S system was: Steve, change your underwear!!
From: RalphMcl 'at' aol.com
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 12:50:24 EDT
In a message dated 4/9/01 11:01:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
snsaquasys 'at' townsqr.com writes:
<< One thing I would remind you of -- we do not gear our system for maximum
fish production. A greater percent of the profit comes from the
produce/plant side, so that is the system that gets the most attention.
Using mechanical filtration, solids removal, and water changes, you can grow
lots more pounds of fish per gallon than we do -- we just don't.
>>
Paula,
Could you share with us what your ratio of lbs. of fish per gal. of water is?
Thanking you in advance, Ralph
| Message 11
Subject: Re: Polytanks leaching?
From: spettels 'at' newnorth.net
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 16:08 +0100
Thanks for the response Paula. Sometimes the obvious solutions escape
me. Straight to the horses mouth, so to speak, is always the best. We'll
give Poly Tanks a holler and ask them.
As for the 5,000,000 perch eggs, I don't know how much detail you want, so
I'll try to be brief. Right now we are leasing a fish farm in northern
Wisconsin. We'll be hatching them in tanks in a building(flow-through),
releasing them into the ponds to consume the natural food chain (as far as
I know, the fry don't do too well on artificial feeds, but there is room
for experimenting), retrieving them back out of the ponds, and taking them
back into the grow-out building for feed training. Depending on how many
we get back, we plan on selling feed trained fingerlings. We'll be
keeping some for our own growing, but we only have room for about 100,000
in our building (we have about that many that we've carried over from last
year). Right now, we don't have recirc tanks, but if we have a good
catch, we may be putting a recirc in this fall(depending on our landlords
plans). We have outside ponds available for excess. Last year, our state
was totally sold out of perch fingerlings so we aren't too worried about
being able to sell them.
As I've already mentioned in my last post, our ultimate goal is to have
our own farm where we can incorporate the S&S system. We would be
interested to know if there is anyone out there doing perch in an S&S
system and with what success.
Hope that was sufficient Paula. This is a great list! For any one who
may be interested, the North Central Regional Aquaculture Center has a
list similar to this. We haven't been on it long so I can't vouch for how
good it is or isn't. Here's the address: ncraqua 'at' iastate.edu I think
you type subscribe into the body. If that doesn't work, try emailing
Wendy Sealey, Ph.D. She'll get you on the list. wsealey 'at' iastate.edu
Thanks for all your help.
Larry & Sarah
| Message 12
Subject: RE: update & LED 'at' s
From: "Hurst, Steve ( China)"
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 00:08:30 +0100
Devon,
Not cheap unfortunately. The best Ultra Bright whites come in
at around 12US$ each. (intensity 2000 mcd 'at' 60 degree view angle ).
The 5mm Ultra brights are listed at about 9.25 US$
(intensity 1000 to 3000 mcd, depending on view angle )
(Stock no 'at' s 267-1783. & 310-6707, if you need technical info from their
site)
They are also available pre packaged in clusters inside a replacement
Flashlight lamp, as a direct replacement for a standard flashlight.
Mislaid the reference no for this item unfortunately.
Its on one of these two sites
http://www.rswww.com/
https://catalogue.maplin.co.uk/mainframe.asp
I have no business connection with either site. I use them as a source
for any prototype work that I do.
Currently looking for a cheaper source for these Ultra Brights LED 'at' s.
>Steve, how expensive are the LEDs that you get?
SNIP
| Message 13
Subject: Re: Cleaning Grow Beds in S&S system
From: Peggy & Emmett
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 19:40:35 -0400
At 10:23 AM 4/11/2001 -0500, STEVE SPRING wrote:
>Hi Bill,
>
>(Breaking my Cardinal rule again.....responding to email when I'm
>tiredbut, I work so much, I'm tired all of the time.....so what the
>heck!)
>
Me too.
Adriana mentioned that Ted brought up bindersI too never gave them a
thought. On my home system I use Purina Trout Chow #2 pellets. On my mini
commercial system I make my own fish food from certified organic soy meal
and ground corn. In addidtion I've lately been adding powdered Norweigien
kelp. I've never encountered sludge. I never have to clean my beds (except
the plastic liner edges exposed to the air which get dirty from the dew and
dust).
I occasionally clean the tubes in the beds as there is both a bacterial and
algal buildup. And, when flooding the beds, I get a black algae growth that
is easily washed away (back into the tank----Teds free mean path) which is
eaten by the tilapia.
Since the S&S system is working in Nova Scotia, the system should work in
Wisconsin. Have you tried the Dutch seeds bred for greenhouse production?
They work. My heirlooms did not. Are you growing other plants in your
system such as watercress? If you are you might be encountering a botanical
benefit/curse called allelopathy. Then again maybe you just can't grow in
the winter months and should be planting now.
My West system was running clear and my East system looked terrible. The
tilapia were fry size so I was adding 2 cups of fish emulsion to the tanks
about every other day for the young tomatoes. I noticed if the West tank
got a little murky it cleared up after the addition of the fish emulsion.
The murky East system didn't clear. One day, out of anger, I added FOUR
cups of fish emulsion to the East system. I went home. Next morning the
East system was clear. I've since concluded that the nutrient load had been
insufficient to get a good bacteria bloom going in my media.
As for the S&S system not supporting tomatoes; many of my plants have seven
clusters. Yesterday I inadvertantly hit a lower cluster of green tomatoes.
They were so heavy that they stripped away taking stem tissue with them as
they fell. Upon weighing the four tomatoes had a combined weight of 27
ounces. I've also encountered breaking plants. Since I'm still learning
sometimes things get away from me. Several vines grew above their support
and the clusters pulled them over and the stem broke. The system grows
tomatoes. Whether it is commercially viable or not I don't know. I'll keep
trying. You do the same. ....Emmett
| Message 14
Subject: Re: Cleaning Grow Beds in S&S system
From: "TGTX"
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 20:11:17 -0500
> Me too.
> Adriana mentioned that Ted brought up bindersI too never gave them a
> thought. On my home system I use Purina Trout Chow #2 pellets. On my mini
> commercial system I make my own fish food from certified organic soy meal
> and ground corn. In addidtion I've lately been adding powdered Norweigien
> kelp. I've never encountered sludge. I never have to clean my beds (except
> the plastic liner edges exposed to the air which get dirty from the dew
and
> dust).
Not only binders but "fillers", folks. Not all binders are the same, I want
to stress that right now, again. But some feed formulations have
non-nutritive fillers which are basically fine sawdust or cellulose and the
like. Without a good dose of Bacillus subtilis bacteria and some cellulose
degrading bacteria and perhaps some good fungi resident on the biofilter or
gravel, you can have sludge build up. Or, let's just say, more accurately,
that those microbes can play a role in the relative rates of buildup.
The Grand Regal Factors in all this include the carbon to oxygen feed ratios
and rates, folks. You can have good oxygen levels in the fish tank for
various reasons but large pockets of anoxic (very low oxygen) areas in the
grow bed where the pore size or the flow patterns through the bed are not
optimal, and then you get into a weird feedback loop wherein those zones can
enlarge because sludge is not decomposing at a fast enough rate, so more
sludge accumulates, and....on and on...you see?
THIS IS WHAT I HAVE SAID FOR NEARLY A DECADE: A BIOFILTER IS LIKE A
BIOLOGICAL CARBURETOR. (Do I sound enough like a CROTCHETY OLD MAN at this
point...Oh, well) This is what I tried to drum into the heads of the folks
working with me on a big aquaculture project using massive biofiltration
technology, and I mean the big head Honchos all the way down to the little
techie dudes and dudettes, including the janitor and his little dog, too....
In a recirc. aquaculture system WITHOUT aquaponics components, sludge can be
Muy Bad.....No Bueno....In an aquaponics system suspended solids, or sludge,
is not necessarily your enemy, but definitely sludge build up is, just like
food is not your enemy but overeating or starvation is....O.K.?
And, look, I've been through this so I can tell you it aint so easy to tell
ahead of time if you are definitely going to cause this problem by a certain
feeding rate, especially if you are going into a high pressure,
testosterone-poisoned, beetle-browed, knuckle-walking guy-mode that is
damning the torpedoes and trying to push too hard on the feeding curve and
trying to break all the records and reap all that overrated
SELF-GLORYBut, it is easy to recognize the consequences at the outset
without it going too far if you back off and take the time to systematically
examine what is going on, and then, if you have the ways and means as part
of the design or operation options, you can adjust things.
So, just as a biofilter is a biological carburetor, so is a plant cell, an
animal cell, a bacterium, an organ system, etc. You can enrich the fuel
feed rate and it will flood the damn thing. Too lean a mix and you wont be
ginnin' like you should. The needle valves or fuel injectors and such
within the carb or fuel injector can be roughly analogized to the pore size
or pore volume "status" within the growing bed...Got me?You just gotta find
that sweet spot somewhere between all the design elements and operating
procedures, and suddenly the sun breaks through and everybody starts
grinnin' while the engines are ginnin'. Can I get an Amen somebody?
> I occasionally clean the tubes in the beds as there is both a bacterial
and
> algal buildup. And, when flooding the beds, I get a black algae growth
that
> is easily washed away (back into the tank----Teds free mean path) which is
> eaten by the tilapia.
Yes indeed, they will eat it. Especially those Nilotica. They attack it.
> Since the S&S system is working in Nova Scotia, the system should work in
> Wisconsin. Have you tried the Dutch seeds bred for greenhouse production?
> They work. My heirlooms did not. Are you growing other plants in your
> system such as watercress? If you are you might be encountering a
botanical
> benefit/curse called allelopathy. Then again maybe you just can't grow in
> the winter months and should be planting now.
Yeah, let's get down to the heart of the matter. Mr Steve, just where does
the failure start in the 'mater culture process? Germination? Vegetative
growth? Blossom? Fruit set? Describe the whole thing chronologically and
also by detailed, descriptive, narrative from seed to plant or wherever you
see a disappointment, and I would bet you money if I were a gambler...heh,
heh, or I can almost guarantee that we as a group can de-mystify all this
and push back the foggy befuddlement in short order. And will there be any
fries with that, sir? We're on our way to a Wisconsin Happy Meal order.
You could turn this into an Internet Wisconsin historic saga...kinda like an
Icelandic saga, only different.
> My West system was running clear and my East system looked terrible. The
> tilapia were fry size so I was adding 2 cups of fish emulsion to the tanks
> about every other day for the young tomatoes. I noticed if the West tank
> got a little murky it cleared up after the addition of the fish emulsion.
> The murky East system didn't clear. One day, out of anger, I added FOUR
> cups of fish emulsion to the East system. I went home. Next morning the
> East system was clear. I've since concluded that the nutrient load had
been
> insufficient to get a good bacteria bloom going in my media.
Now you are talking my language. Now we are gettin' some where. Yeah,
y'all...you know, I used fish emulsion and seaweed extract and it did all
kinds of funky things for a while, but the fish didn't die as they were very
young (low fish biomass, therefore low biochemical oxygen demand from the
animal component of the system) and.....and this is the Grand Royal
Component here..... the tanks were well oxygenated with an air blower and,
at the time, air lifts....I switched to air stones later on. I "believe"
that the JUDICIAL use of fish emulsion and S.W. extract early on helped
prime the bacterial biomass pump, and created a long term trace nutrient
reservoir, which I also later supplemented, I "believe", with the granite
dust.
> As for the S&S system not supporting tomatoes; many of my plants have
seven
> clusters. Yesterday I inadvertantly hit a lower cluster of green tomatoes.
> They were so heavy that they stripped away taking stem tissue with them as
> they fell. Upon weighing the four tomatoes had a combined weight of 27
> ounces. I've also encountered breaking plants. Since I'm still learning
> sometimes things get away from me. Several vines grew above their support
> and the clusters pulled them over and the stem broke. The system grows
> tomatoes. Whether it is commercially viable or not I don't know. I'll keep
> trying. You do the same. ....Emmett
Mr. Steve Spring...if you are still there.....here's another note....recall
that I did not TRY to grow tomatoes. They were here and there in the
system....I did plant a few here and there, but one sprung up volutarily
because somebody was eating a sandwich during the construction phase and
dropped a tomato seed from the sandwich onto the gravel. The thing sprang
up and the next thing I new I had a tropical vine demanding to be fed,
straight out of the Sci-Fi channel. I think I did not have optimal fruiting
with the 'maters due to temperature and light variables that I was playing
with for the benefit of the herbs and salads...not the tomatoes....but I can
tell you I had some fruit and phenomenal, way out of control vegetative
growth.....I had to rip up every 'mater plant in the greenhouse out of the
gravel beds just so I could walk in between the beds...they became weeds!!!
Blessings.
Ted
| Message 15
Subject: White LEDs
From: Brian Gracia
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 22:18:23 -0500
How bout:
White LED-5,600 mcd typ. LED1044.$2.95
http://www.bgmicro.com
Goto the Lets Make A Deal Page.
Brian
| Message 16
Subject: RE: White LEDs
From: "Hurst, Steve ( China)"
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 04:32:55 +0100
Brian,
Wow, Thats got to be an un-beatable price !!
Wonder what "Bluish Green" Solar lighting will look like !
Hmm...worth a try
(Bluish Green LED-20,800 mcd typ. LED1052.....$2.95)
Steve H
>How bout:
>White LED-5,600 mcd typ. LED1044.$2.95
>http://www.bgmicro.com
Goto the Lets Make A Deal Page.
>Brian
SNIP
|
