Aquaponics Digest - Wed 04/18/01
Message 1: Re: flowers wilting
from "STEVE SPRING"
Message 2: Re: Guru Ted
from "STEVE SPRING"
Message 3: Re: On farm processing and meat sales (Smoked fish?)
from "STEVE SPRING"
Message 4: Re: joseph newmam
from "STEVE SPRING"
Message 5: Re: Misunderstanding us
from "STEVE SPRING"
Message 6: Foliar feeding
from "Adriana Gutierrez"
Message 7: Re: On farm processing and meat sales (Smoked fish?)
from "Adriana Gutierrez"
Message 8: Re: On farm processing and meat sales (Smoked fish?)
from Peggy & Emmett
Message 9: Re: On farm etc.
from Peggy & Emmett
Message 10: RV: Polemics on EC (2) (continuation)
from "Carlos Arano"
Message 11: Gauss bell' s
from "Carlos Arano"
Message 12: Re: On farm processing and meat sales (Smoked fish?)
from "STEVE SPRING"
| Message 1
Subject: Re: flowers wilting
From: "STEVE SPRING"
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 00:07:08 -0500
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Hi Adrianna,
I added the site on tomatoes to my "favorites". Thanks again for the =
info. Hopefully Carlos will find it beneficial as well.
The only reason I am sending this is that I will have my greenhouse up =
tomorrow...hopefully..."assembles in 3 hrs"...you know how that goes. =
Anyway, I will have a 20 x 12 x 9 greenhouse going. I'm going to try to =
do the whole thing with the Earthbox concept. I know you are not that =
keen on this, but, with my time constraints, I feel that it would be =
good for me.
I just don't have the time to try a hydroponics operation.
Any input would be appreciated. I'm sure I will be picking your brain on =
this. This will be my first time using a greenhouse.
YT.....Steve
=20
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Adriana Gutierrez=20
To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com=20
Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2001 7:45 AM
Subject: Re: flowers wilting
Hi Eric, =20
=20
Have your plants been producing fruit up until this point? If so, it =
sounds like your flowers are aborting due to the high heat. If you =
haven't produced any fruit at all then it sounds like a germination =
problem...My understanding is that once the temperatures moderate a bit =
the plants will produce again. Here's a great site on tomato growing =
http://msucares.com/pubs/pub1828.htm
=20
Adriana
I'm from the Philippines, I finally had some success with growing =
tomatoes after several failure. My tomatoes are finally flowering, they =
used to fall of after few days. My problem now is they develop minto =
beautiful flowers and later on dry up or wilt and finally fall off. What =
could be the reason? Could it be the temperature it's been 34 degrees =
celsius and summertime here.
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Hi Adrianna,
I added the site on tomatoes to my =
"favorites".=20
Thanks again for the info. Hopefully Carlos will find it beneficial as=20
well.
The only reason I am sending this is =
that I will=20
have my greenhouse up tomorrow...hopefully..."assembles in 3 hrs"...you =
know how=20
that goes. Anyway, I will have a 20 x 12 x 9 greenhouse going. I'm going =
to try=20
to do the whole thing with the Earthbox concept. I know you are not that =
keen on=20
this, but, with my time constraints, I feel that it would be =
good for=20
me.
I just don't have the time to try a =
hydroponics=20
operation.
Any input would be appreciated. I'm =
sure I will be=20
picking your brain on this. This will be my first time using a=20
greenhouse.
YT.....Steve
----- Original Message -----
From:=20
Adriana Gutierrez
To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2001 =
7:45=20
AM
Subject: Re: flowers =
wilting
Hi Eric,
Have your plants been producing fruit =
up until=20
this point? If so, it sounds like your flowers are aborting due =
to the=20
high heat. If you haven't produced any fruit at all then it =
sounds like=20
a germination problem...My understanding is that once the temperatures =
moderate a bit the plants will produce again. Here's a =
great site=20
on tomato growing http://msucares.com/pubs/pu=
b1828.htm
Adriana
I'm from the Philippines, I finally had some success with growing =
tomatoes after several failure. My tomatoes are finally =
flowering,=20
they used to fall of after few days. My problem now is=20
they develop minto beautiful flowers and later on dry up or =
wilt and=20
finally fall off. What could be the reason? Could it be =
the=20
temperature it's been 34 degrees celsius and summertime=20
here.
------=_NextPart_000_0050_01C0C79B.822B2DA0--
| Message 2
Subject: Re: Guru Ted
From: "STEVE SPRING"
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 00:20:08 -0500
No Ted,
I usually don't disagree with you, but this time I do. You are definately a
Guru. Remember, I almost had a heart attack when I thought you were going to
be lost to the list because of computer problems.
I'd love to come visit you and pick your brain for a few days. HEY, My wife
& I'd probably get more out of that than going to a CROP KING convention.
Besides that, there is the extra bonus of River Walk and bluebonnets...also
a tax write-off for the whole trip...not a bad deal, huh?
Later friend..Steve (Work on that website!!)
----- Original Message -----
From: "TGTX"
To:
Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2001 10:23 AM
Subject: Re: Guru Ted
Working on it Marc...."Everyday I write the book" as Elvis Costello sang.
I plan on doing a website with all kinds of homestead info packages,
including but not limited to my various versions of aquaponics,
permaculture, vermiculture, gardening, recipes, canning and preserving food,
carpentry, concrete projects, huntin', fishin' and trappin', and other odd,
do-it-yourself stuff. It will be fun.
I thought I was going to do that in 2000 and look what happened. I have
been busy licking my wounds and doing other things. Life is what happens
while you are busy making other plans. If I can just pay for this house
and land and buy the surrounding 6 acres, then I plan to spend the rest of
my life on this planet trying to develop economical food-fiber-energy
systems for families to live and grow with.....including my own
family.....my oldest daughter just got her learning permit to drive....God
help me....
God Bless America, and may Peace rest on the world for just one day this
weekend.
Ted
(No guru, just a rusty old lug nut.....a golf course groundskeeper ala Bill
Murray...Fore!)
----- Original Message -----
From: LABERGE MARC
To: aqua
Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2001 10:08 AM
Subject: Guru Ted
> Ted if you haven't already, you should write a book on the A-B-C's of
> aquaponics ,your knowledge and way of explaining things are unique.
> Marc Laberge
> Mont Tremblant
> Quebec , Canada
>
>
| Message 3
Subject: Re: On farm processing and meat sales (Smoked fish?)
From: "STEVE SPRING"
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 00:31:06 -0500
Again, I agree with Ted,
Processing is the problem. There is a market that would love to carry my
fish, but they can't because of that "stupid little processing tag". You
have to be FDA, IRS, USGA, NAACP and any other title that comes along
"approved". Everybody wants a cut of your operation.
As Ted states, sell your fish live or "fresh frozen" and you won't have a
problem. If you have a local market that is "user friendly", you can do
anything you want...that is what I have been told...I would never do such a
thing... ;-)
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "TGTX"
To:
Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2001 10:36 AM
Subject: Re: On farm processing and meat sales (Smoked fish?)
Marc, if it were up to me, I would not try to process any kind of fish on my
place. The safety, uh, police, would be on me like somethin I aint never
seen. So, sell the fish live or fresh on ice if you can would be my advice.
Obviously for larger, "mega-scale" aquaponic or aquaculture commericial
operations, of course you have to have some kind of standards and reasonable
accountability, including inspection and HACCP and processing steps....like
many catfish processing operations in Mississippi for example. Jim can tell
us some about that.
I know that a project that I am trying to see the birth of will be fairly
large and will need some IQF or similar facilities to get the fish and other
aquaculture products to market safely. That will definitely involve HACCP
and the FDA, most likely. God help us.
Price of doing business, though. And HACCP is a logical approach if not
taken to extremes. It is based on pro-active prevention by design elements
rather than reaction and testing after the fact.
Ted
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2001 10:30 AM
Subject: Re: On farm processing and meat sales (Smoked fish?)
> Thanks but it seems to need lawyers so not to worry.
>
> Marc
>
> TGTX wrote:
> >
> > Back in 1995, it was the FDA and not USDA that required HACCP programs
and
> > federal inspection and monitoring of any kind of seafood processing
> > facility.
>
>
| Message 4
Subject: Re: joseph newmam
From: "STEVE SPRING"
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 00:35:32 -0500
What are you referring to Tony?
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Cooper"
To:
Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2001 7:17 PM
Subject: Re: joseph newmam
So, he has finally made it to the aquaponics list.
Anyone of the good members of this list who has anything to do with this man
and his
alleged technology does so at his/her own financial risk.
There is lots of info on the web about this man and his roadshow
"investment" deals
in the machine that is always soon going into production.
Research well before being sucked in.
Tony Cooper.
His organization is very good at attacking his many detractors so i expect
some
comeback from this :-<
| Message 5
Subject: Re: Misunderstanding us
From: "STEVE SPRING"
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 00:51:35 -0500
All I can say is "Thanks" to Bruce for posting this to the list because I
really am not "socially insensitive" at all. I, literally, work with
life-&-death situations on a daily basis.
This is why I try to not post anything when I am on one of my marathon runs.
Not that my job is more important than the gas attendant, waitress,
stockbroker or anything like that. But, when you have been witness to
several "drive-by's, a couple of suicides and several "child abuses" it is
sometimes hard to come back to the real world.....which makes one wonder
what that really is.
I try to escape into my world of aquaponics. You guys have no idea of the
time that I spent just "watching fish and lettuce" grow. There's no blood.
No violent blood.
I really wasn't going to bring this up. I love our list.I love the people on
this list. I'm really not an insensitive SOB. I'm really a very caring
person.
The bottom line is my thanks to all for putting up with me when I'm kind of
down.
YT...Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Schreiber"
To:
Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2001 10:29 AM
Subject: Re: Misunderstanding us
Adriana you misunderstood Steve Spring a while back when he said he
was tired. He and I both work long nights and by the time either
of us get home its the same to us as if you started work at 4am and upon
getting home from work at 7pm 6 days in a row we get very sleep
deprived our brains actually hurt and as a result when we replie to the
list we are in real danger of not making sense, making fools of our
selfs, insulting or offending some one unintentionally thats all he
meant.
In the summers I have worked a lot of 80 to 100hr.weeks and i can
get real outrageous in conversations after a while and not know it.
Almost in a walking dream state its for me like being on drugs would be
like.
Bruce
| Message 6
Subject: Foliar feeding
From: "Adriana Gutierrez"
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 08:38:29 -0500
The real trick is to get the spray on the underside of the leaves, for
both foliar feeding and for pest control; especially in desely seeded
plantings. I have pretty much concluded that an electrostatic spray
may be an essential investment for any future greenhouse venture.
This ensures 100% coverage of the leaf surfaces. Unfortunately it
costs over $1,000.
> I found that the underside of the leaves took up
> more nutrients and that the smaller the mist size the better and to
stop
> spraying just before the leaves became saturated.
| Message 7
Subject: Re: On farm processing and meat sales (Smoked fish?)
From: "Adriana Gutierrez"
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 08:56:02 -0500
Isn't that the truth? When I lived in Sarasota I asked the zoning
guy about putting in a "You-Fish" pond on agricutltural property and
he said it would need to be zoned as an amusement park!
> Processing is the problem. There is a market that would love to
carry my
> fish, but they can't because of that "stupid little processing tag".
You
> have to be FDA, IRS, USGA, NAACP and any other title that comes
along
> "approved". Everybody wants a cut of your operation.
| Message 8
Subject: Re: On farm processing and meat sales (Smoked fish?)
From: Peggy & Emmett
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 19:23:53 -0400
At 12:31 AM 4/18/2001 -0500, STEVE SPRING wrote:
>New greenhouse, three hours, etc. Get some seeds from Hydro-Gardens. Try
Grace and Traderio and compare to your other seed varieties. These seeds,
specifically bred for a greenhouse invironment, should give much better
yields.
http://www.hydro-gardens.com
.....Emmett
| Message 9
Subject: Re: On farm etc.
From: Peggy & Emmett
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 19:36:47 -0400
At 07:23 PM 4/18/2001 -0400, Peggy & Emmett wrote:
Environment incorrectly.
| Message 10
Subject: RV: Polemics on EC (2) (continuation)
From: "Carlos Arano"
Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 21:33:23 -0300
Bill and Steve:
Thank you.
Maybe our discussion with Ted was not so bad. In one moment
I was feeling like a big and heavy mouth.
Carlos
| Message 11
Subject: Gauss bell' s
From: "Carlos Arano"
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 04:58:57 -0300
Tony:
"THE fundamental question on aquaponics i.e. how come you can
successfully
> grow plants such as tomatoes [heavy feeder] and lettuce [light feeder]
side by side
> in the same nutrient when hydroponic chemical salts fail to do this."
To me, as a phylosophical point, everything in life could be represented
as a Gauss bell's. Maybe I'm too much mathematician. And sometimes it is
difficult for me to explain my point in few synthetic lines.
Lets try to do it in a simple way. Take a pencil and draw an horizontal
line on a piece of paper (X line).
Make three or four marks on it, more or less one inch appart one to the
other. These marks should
represent different conditions that plants need (for instance, germination
temperature, growing temperature, humidity, etc. etc. etc.). In our example
you will have there, on the X line, EC values (1000, 2000, 3000 µS/cm)
Draw two Gauss bells over this line, one near the first mark (apex at
1000) and the
other far away on the last mark (apex at 3500). One of this bells could
represent productivity rate (Y axis) of lettuce, the other same for tomato.
According to your drawing, there are not superposition of bells since one of
them is far from the other. Separately you can get higher production of
lettuce when you have an EC in the solution (ions easily available by the
plant) equal or near the apex mark of lettuce. Same happen with tomato.
Now, you should draw same bells but wider and extended. In doing that,
the right tail of the lettuce bell with the left tail of the tomato bell
should be superposed. An area will be there. This area will cover between,
lets say, 1200 to 2500. But at 1200 you still have a good production rate of
lettuce and a poor production of tomato and viceverse, at 2500 a good
production of tomato and a poor production of lettuce (by the way, you will
start seeing tip burn in lettuce due to inmobility of Calcium by high
concentration of solution).
Here I should say: you can grow tomato and lettuce together but it will
be impossible to get the highest production point for tomato and lettuce
together.
You say: "how come you can successfully grow plants".Successfully
is a word. Successfully for somebody could be not successfully for other
fellows. That's my
point. Some people will be happy with few tomatos and few lettuce. Other
people will require higher standards.
Remember. You will be working in a common zone but not at the highest
point of
productivity of both crops.
Same happen with other factors affecting plants growing and all of them
interacts between. Life is full of facts that can be explained by Gauss
bell's.
Well, it cost me a lot, but I think I did it. Let me know if I was
enough clear.
Carlos
PS: How to translate the Galileo's sentence ? Maybe, "in spite of everything
it is moving" . Please correct me if I did incorrectly.
| Message 12
Subject: Re: On farm processing and meat sales (Smoked fish?)
From: "STEVE SPRING"
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 23:07:24 -0500
Hi Peggy & Emmett,
Believe it or not, the 3 hrs was close. "If we had the correct instructions
for the greenhouse cover vs. the instructions for the storage shed cover".
We started around noon and were basically finished 'at' 6:30 p.m. We have
another couple of hours tomorrow to finish fine tuning the operation. That
is about "3 hours" as per manufacturer instructions go. I usually figure "3
hours" equals one day. (I had a fireplace cover that said 30
min.construction time...it took almost 18 hrs....you know how that goes.)
I am well aware of the hydro-garden line of products. I have tried their
"Trust, Grace and another that I cannot remember." As usual dismal results
with tomatoes.
Thanks anyway..Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peggy & Emmett"
To: ;
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 6:23 PM
Subject: Re: On farm processing and meat sales (Smoked fish?)
At 12:31 AM 4/18/2001 -0500, STEVE SPRING wrote:
>New greenhouse, three hours, etc. Get some seeds from Hydro-Gardens. Try
Grace and Traderio and compare to your other seed varieties. These seeds,
specifically bred for a greenhouse invironment, should give much better
yields.
http://www.hydro-gardens.com
.....Emmett
|
