Aquaponics Digest - Sat 04/21/01
Message 1: Barley straw vs.-----
from "Jay Myers"
Message 2: A different aproach to aquaponics
from REMARCINC 'at' aol.com
Message 3: Re: Barley straw vs.-----
from "TGTX"
Message 4: Re: Barley straw vs.-----
from "TGTX"
Message 5: Marc, what do you think about this H2O purifier?
from "TGTX"
Message 6: Re: A different aproach to aquaponics
from marc 'at' aculink.net
Message 7: Backup generator
from "Adriana Gutierrez"
Message 8: Re: Backup generator
from "TGTX"
Message 9: Re: Marc, what do you think about this H2O purifier?
from marc 'at' aculink.net
Message 10: Re: Marc, what do you think about this H2O purifier?
from marc 'at' aculink.net
Message 11: Re: Marc, what do you think about this H2O purifier?
from "TGTX"
Message 12: Re: Marc, what do you think about this H2O purifier?
from marc 'at' aculink.net
Message 13: Re: Backup generator
from kris book
Message 14: Re: cull potatoes
from S & S Aqua Farm
Message 15: Re: Backup generator
from Jim
Message 16: Re: Archive?
from S & S Aqua Farm
Message 17: Re: Unlinking Systems
from S & S Aqua Farm
Message 18: Re: Unlinking Systems
from Raul Vergueiro Martins
Message 19: Re: Unlinking Systems
from Raul Vergueiro Martins
Message 20: Re: The Value of Sludge
from Raul Vergueiro Martins
Message 21: Re: The Value of Sludge
from Raul Vergueiro Martins
| Message 1
Subject: Barley straw vs.-----
From: "Jay Myers"
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 07:32:23 -0500
I was confused about the need for barley straw vs. other kinds of hay,
straw, etc. in reducing algae, so I took a small mesh bag (actually I
talked my secretary into bringing in the bag she washes her undies in) and
filled it with perenial peanut hay - same as I feed to my cows. I put it in
a 55 gal aquarium with my breeder Talapia, and in 6-10 days the algae is all
but gone.
This means to me I don't need to but the expensive barley straw. I've now
put a larger bag in the return tank from my grow beds, and it seems to be
helping too.
Thanks to all who pointed the way.
Jay Myers
Panama City Beach, Fl. ( and location of the first ever Minature Angus breed
born east of Iowa)
| Message 2
Subject: A different aproach to aquaponics
From: REMARCINC 'at' aol.com
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 09:02:23 EDT
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here is a link to the Living Technologies aquaponics project in Vermont.
They have a bit different idea about this- and also have a "kit" you can buy
for schools. Ocean Arks
International : or http://www.oceanarks.org.
Kricket Smith-Gary
remarc inc.,Yankee Site Services
1692 Waddy Rd
Lawrenceburg, KY 40342
502-839-4425
502-839-9655 fax
remarcinc 'at' AOL.COM
http://www.remarcinc.com
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here is a link
to the Living Technologies aquaponics project in Vermont.
They have a bit different idea about this- and also have a "kit" you can buy
for schools. Ocean Arks
International : or http://www.oceanarks.org.
Kricket Smith-Gary
remarc inc.,Yankee Site Services
1692 Waddy Rd
Lawrenceburg, KY 40342
502-839-4425
502-839-9655 fax
remarcinc 'at' AOL.COM
http://www.remarcinc.com
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| Message 3
Subject: Re: Barley straw vs.-----
From: "TGTX"
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 08:17:23 -0500
> I was confused about the need for barley straw vs. other kinds of hay,
> straw, etc. in reducing algae, so I took a small mesh bag (actually
I
> talked my secretary into bringing in the bag she washes her undies in) and
> filled it with perenial peanut hay - same as I feed to my cows.
At the risk of....well, here goes
Is there any chance that the undies played a role in this?
Is this yet another link of Fredricks of Hollywood to.... State of the Art
Fish Culture?
Is this yet another confirmation of the Ground Underwear Theory (GUT)?
Indeed...why do you think they call them "Teddies"?
And would they have to belong to just secretaries? Or perhaps just blondes?
How about other professionals, such as paralegals, office managers, or
dental hygienists?
How would the serious fish farmer go about making requests for such an
arrangement in a polite, discrete, and totally scientific manner?
Gives a whole new meaning to the notion of Exotic Fish, don't you think?.
Oo La La
Ted
(My wife goes: "Bad boy! No Soyrizo breakfast taco!"....I'm in the dog house
now)
| Message 4
Subject: Re: Barley straw vs.-----
From: "TGTX"
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 08:31:39 -0500
> > I was confused about the need for barley straw vs. other kinds of hay,
> > straw, etc. in reducing algae, so
Well, as long as I am not going to be eating breakfast, I might as well send
something substantive along, as opposed to the rank silliness just fired
off....
Barley Straw Bundles for algae control:
Natural Solutions,
PO Box 114,
Keuka Park, NY 14478-0114
315-531-8803
http://www.linkny.com/barleystraw
Ted
Still in the dog house.
| Message 5
Subject: Marc, what do you think about this H2O purifier?
From: "TGTX"
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 08:36:42 -0500
Marc Nameth, what do you think about this H2O purifier?
http://www.aquarain.com
Ted
| Message 6
Subject: Re: A different aproach to aquaponics
From: marc 'at' aculink.net
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 08:52:51 -0600
REMARCINC 'at' aol.com
I am unable to recieve your messages as they seem to be
written in HTML.
Can you change your settings to text??
Marc
| Message 7
Subject: Backup generator
From: "Adriana Gutierrez"
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 10:41:16 -0500
http://aurasystems.com
A while back Ted, in one of his serious moments, pposted information
about converting a vehicle to provide back-up power. Here is a
company that sells the required equipment.
Adriana
| Message 8
Subject: Re: Backup generator
From: "TGTX"
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 11:18:32 -0500
> http://aurasystems.com
>
> A while back Ted, in one of his serious moments, pposted information
> about converting a vehicle to provide back-up power. Here is a
> company that sells the required equipment.
>
> Adriana
I think I might have had a virus. Just a phage I was going through, you
might say.
Thanks for the link. I will check it out.
I put in a prayer for your B-Ham greenhouse. I am working on my little
attached greenhouse and fish tanks today. Wish me luck. Gotta go to the
plumbing supply store right now.
Adios.
Ted
| Message 9
Subject: Re: Marc, what do you think about this H2O purifier?
From: marc 'at' aculink.net
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 10:38:05 -0600
It uses standard/conservative technology that's been around
a long time.
The ceramic filter claims are conservative if they are rated
"absolute" rather than "nominal".
The nominal filters are often ordered by technology
challenged purchasing/buyer personnel in an attempt to lower
purchasing costs without consulting the engineering staff in
a small easy going company
OR
the water treatment industry is NOT regulated so anyone with
the disease called "arrogance of ignorance" (from Capt.
Liddel Hart) will bang one of these things up in a garage
and think he/she/it figured it out til the health dept.
shuts him/her/it down and/or gets sued.
Naturally a certified absolute cermaic filter will be more
spendy.
ISO certification is a great way to know that parts
substitution has been firmly addressed and the proper filter
will have to be ordered or the company probably WILL lose
their ISO certification.
I am over stating this point as during the back pack filter
craze a few years ago many originally tested good but as
time went on all kinds of people got various
parasites/bacterial infections due to nominal rather than
absolute filters being supplied among other reasons.
The carbon is teated with silver so it MUST have an FDA
registration. Silver is a controlled substance re:
pesticide/medicinal claims.
The claims they make for the carbon are conservative.
Silver is controversial from
http://www.camd.lsu.edu/msds/s\silver.htm :
-----------
Health Effects:
Inhalation: May cause argyria in respiratory tract.
Skin/Eye: May cause argyria, a bluish-gray discoloration of
various tissues.
Other: Generalized argyria is recognized by pigmentation of
the skin, eyes and nails and results from inhalation of
silver salts.
-----------
It is one of those old time remedies that is making a
comeback under the concept silver chelate and currently
there is quite the cottage industry blooming. A lot of
silver people in our future Tedzo. :)
(The magic word "chelate" could sell an old cow turd wrapped
in a used pair of nylons - but I digress.)
The gravity nature of the system has slower production than
a pressurized unit but is a good thing for purity.
Anyway - If their quality control is any good it looks like
a good unit!
I bet it's pricey! If you look into it let me know.
Marc
TGTX wrote:
>
> Marc Nameth, what do you think about this H2O purifier?
>
> http://www.aquarain.com
>
> Ted
| Message 10
Subject: Re: Marc, what do you think about this H2O purifier?
From: marc 'at' aculink.net
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 10:49:15 -0600
I went ahead and checked out pricing and it is average. I
expected around double what the dealers are asking.
Replacement filter costs are typical mainstream.
Back to projects so I can go greenhousing. (Some folks go
skiing in Colorado)
Marc
TGTX wrote:
>
> Marc Nameth, what do you think about this H2O purifier?
| Message 11
Subject: Re: Marc, what do you think about this H2O purifier?
From: "TGTX"
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 13:15:20 -0500
> there is quite the cottage industry blooming. A lot of
> silver people in our future Tedzo. :)
"Silver people, on the shoreline, let us be.... very free"?
Think I just had a flash back there. Pardon me.
> (The magic word "chelate" could sell an old cow turd wrapped
> in a used pair of nylons - but I digress.)
Or a pig with lipstick, by any other name, is still a swine with Revlon
lips...??
> I bet it's pricey! If you look into it let me know.
>
> Marc
Well, I just came across the website somehow. And.....somebody gave me an
NSA brand "bacteriostatic water treatment unit" which is now plumbed into
the cold water line under the kitchen sink. I know little to nothing about
this stuff, I just did it. Can't smell or taste the chlorine, for sure.
That's about all I can report...we have had this filter for a while with no
bad effects....I just don't like to taste chlorine....I grew up on artesian
well water which tasted sweet and clean and full of calcium carbonate.....So
far, my skin is not grey or reptilianyet.....nor do I resemble a
bug-eyed critter from Zeta Reticuli yet, so I guess I am AOK so far.
Ted
Klattu Barata Nickto....
| Message 12
Subject: Re: Marc, what do you think about this H2O purifier?
From: marc 'at' aculink.net
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 12:43:13 -0600
Reminds me of another slick mainstream technology, KDF, uses
finely ground metal particles. Redox is cool.
There are various formulations for various target effects.
Chlorine, bacteriostat, etc.
Here's their website:
http://www.kdfft.com/
Good stuff.
Marc
http://www.kli.org/stuff/Hamlet.html
TGTX wrote:
> Well, I just came across the website somehow. And.....somebody gave me an
> NSA brand "bacteriostatic water treatment unit" which is now plumbed into
> the cold water line under the kitchen sink....
> Ted
> Klattu Barata Nickto....
| Message 13
Subject: Re: Backup generator
From: kris book
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 11:02:22 -0600
Now that we have a cheap generator, how about some gas at about $.30 a
gallon to run it. This list of links appeared in my mailbox, some of the
claims made are incredible. At the bottom of this list you will find
something that says Additional Information. It was the names of about 50
inventors who mysteriously disappeared or whose inventions have
disappeared. If anyone is interested, I'll send it privately.
kris
Advanced Energy Technology Web Sites
Updated 22 Feb 2001
A solar and/or off-grid method of heating homes, business, RV's, etc. is
now
ready to be revealed to the public for the first time at the Global
Sciences
Congress starting Feb 8, 2001 in the Denver Colorado area. Details of the
conference can be obtained at the web site http://www.globalsciences.com
http://www.aquafuel.com/ Alternative fuel for vehicles. AquaLux Corp.
http://www.greenglow.co.uk/
http://home.earthlink.net/~fradella/homepage.htm
http://www.better-mpg.com/
http://blacklightpower.com/
http://www.fuellesspower.com/
http://www.ucsofa.com/
http://www.angelfire.com/ak/egel/atsite.html
http://www.eagle-research.com/
http://www.entropysystems.com/
http://www.casagrande.com/~exotic/
http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel/plans.htm
http://www.globalsciences.com/
http://www.himacresearch.com/
http://www.padrak.com/~ine/
http://www.mv.com/ipusers/zeropoint/
http://www.svpvril.com/
http://www.btinternet.com/~sylvestris/fizgig/fizindex.htm
http://home.earthlink.net/~josephnewman/auction2000.html
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/6087/ Joseph Newman
http://www.inertialessdrive.co.nz/
http://www.magneticenergy.com/finalcel.htm
http://www.azsolarcenter.com/technology/cooking.html
http://www.svpvril.com/
http://nxtwave.tripod.com/gaiatech/index.html
http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/config.pl?read=4350
http://educate-yourself.org/freeenergyindex.html The Joe Cell
rphillips 'at' megagate.com modified Sterling Engine plans
www.keelynet.com
www.padrak.com/ine/ The Institute for New Energy
GaryAwake 'at' aol.com Gary A. Schwartz, an inventor/researcher in Asheville
NC.
704-253-9451.
http://www.jeffry.com/technology/bwt/bwt_catalogue/heatpumps.htm
World’s most efficient heat pump.
http://www.amasci.com/freenrg/minto.html Do-it-yourself solar engine.
******************** Additional Info:
On Sat, 21 Apr 2001 11:18:32 -0500 "TGTX" writes:
>
> > http://aurasystems.com
> >
> > A while back Ted, in one of his serious moments, pposted
> information
> > about converting a vehicle to provide back-up power. Here is a
> > company that sells the required equipment.
> >
> > Adriana
>
> I think I might have had a virus. Just a phage I was going through,
> you
> might say.
>
> Thanks for the link. I will check it out.
> I put in a prayer for your B-Ham greenhouse. I am working on my
> little
> attached greenhouse and fish tanks today. Wish me luck. Gotta go to
> the
> plumbing supply store right now.
>
> Adios.
>
> Ted
>
>
| Message 14
Subject: Re: cull potatoes
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 18:52:33 -0500
At 06:33 PM 03/13/2001 -0800, you wrote:
>Does anyone have any experience using potato culls or peelings as feed
>for tilapia? Any thoughts?
>Don
I didn't see any answer to this post. Did I miss something good?
Paula
S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO 65775 417-256-5124
Web page http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
| Message 15
Subject: Re: Backup generator
From: Jim
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 19:22:34 -0500
I haven't seen anything to indicate the AuraGen is inexpensive to
purchase _or_ operate. From the rather obvious lack of any reference to
price, and the many references to military applications, I'd guess it
costs much more than a conventional generator of comparable capacity.
Anyone have a price quote for one of these?
Jim
kris book wrote:
>
> Now that we have a cheap generator, how about some gas at about $.30 a
> gallon to run it.
| Message 16
Subject: Re: Archive?
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 19:12:40 -0500
At 11:51 AM 04/19/2001 +0200, you wrote:
>Does anybody know if this list is archived anywhere?
>
>Craig
Craig - the archives, although not completely updated, are located at:
http://www.i55mall.com/aquaponics/
Paula
| Message 17
Subject: Re: Unlinking Systems
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 21:06:47 -0500
At 09:33 AM 04/20/2001 -0500, Adriana wrote:
. Over the past 6 months or so I've
>been thinking about the benefits of setting up a growing operation
>with the nutrient source or fish component "unlinked" from the growing
>beds.
Adriana, I've read through this description several times, and it's a very
interesting concept. I know how thoroughly you research subjects, so don't
doubt your conclusions; but I do have some questions about the proposal.
>WHAT IS REQUIRED TO UNLINK SYSTEMS?
>In order to "unlink" an aquaponic system you need to incorporate an
>additional step into the process. In this step you separate solids
>from the fish tanks and run the solids through a biodigester. By
>having a built-in solid separation component in your system you
>benefit by avoiding potential sludge build-up in your beds. In most
>cases, (except in exquisitely balanced aquaponic systems) this
>produces a superior fertilizer than the one produced in the growing
>beds with the raw effluent coming in directly from the fish tanks
>because of the nature of the biological activity in a properly
>designed biodigester.
Are there citations for the superiority of pre-biodigested nutrients over
nutrients biogested in growbeds? We're aware of the EM Technologies
process, but are there other studies?
>
>WHAT ARE THE BENEFITS OF UNLINKING SYSTEMS?
>There are a number of benefits to unlinking the fish and the plant
>systems:
>
>Built-in Solid Separation
>------------------------------------
>While some growers are able to maintain an exquisite balance, new
>aquaponic growers frequently encounter problems with the build-up of
>solids in their beds. This leads to a series of problems with plant
>health, germination, yield, "dead zones", etc, which in turn impact
>the effectiveness of the growing bed as a bio-filter, which in turn
>affects the health of the fish. By building a solid separation
>component into the system some of these problems are avoided from the
>outset.
I can't say that we claim to "maintain an exquisite balance" in our system,
but we've found that most problems can be attributed to oversupply or
undersupply -- overfeeding at start-up, undersizing of the grow beds, or
less plant growth than is necessary for the size of fish stocked. Most of
these problems can be corrected by cycling the system with reduced input for
a few days, allowing the system to balance itself. And actually I can't say
that we can take credit for that -- allowing the natural systems time to
recover is the most intervention that's usually necessary. It's when we
overengineer (humans love to do this!) that we've seen problems.
>Superior fertilizer
>-------------------
>A properly designed biodigester for a hydroponic/aquaponic operation
>will have as its primary function the production of a water soluble
>biofertilizer. Traditionally, biodigesters have focused on the
>production of methane gas and, as a consequence, do not completely
>digest the biosolids, resulting in an inferior fertilizer an some
>sludge residue. The anaerobic and aerobic processes of a properly
>designed biodigester whose primary function is the production of
>biofertilizer will produce a superior product over fish effluent which
>is routed directly into growing beds, manure compost teas and
>conventional hydroponic fertilizers. The end result will be increased
>yields and superior flavor.
Have there been studies to show flavor differences? Perhaps I'm not staying
in touch with the proper research. Do you have some resource to share?
>Protection in case of a system crash
>--------------------------------------------------------
>It is not unheard of that aquaponic systems crash due to disease
>problems or mechanical problems. When the fish side of the operation
>is shut down or production is suddenly reduced, this creates an
>problem for the plant side since the nutrient supply is immediately
>affected.
As you know, the process in a gravel-based system is constantly composting.
The fish effluent pumped into the beds today is not what the plants are
uptaking, so even though the input side is "immediately affected", the
nutrient supply is not. Unless you have a long shut-down time of fresh
effluent being input, or if you completely stop watering the grow beds, the
one need not necessarily cause a system "crash".
It is also possible for the plant side of an operation to
>crash - aphids or pest problems or a freeze or pump breakdown
>sometimes require a premature clearing of growing beds to eliminate a
>problem. An unscheduled reduction in plant volume will affect the
>filtration of the fish effluent and could affect the water quality and
>health of the fish.
This can be the case, and would be most likely in a mono-crop situation. If
you have mixed crops (which we usually encourage), most insect problems
would not affect all of the multiple beds attached to one tank. Again,
reduction in feeding the fish would probably be sufficient to get through
this until the affected crop could be replaced. Even in our commercial
basic production times, we had various stages of growth within a system, and
planned the rotation around this. We always had at least four different
stages of growth within a system, with side beds working on fruiting crops
to safeguard against crashes.
By unlinking the plant and fish sides of the
>operation and having a buffer supply of nutrients available, the
>operations can be maintained independent of the status of the other
>component.
>
>Ability to have production volumes which are independent of one
>another
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>----
>An aquaponic system requires a very fine balance of fish
>and plant production volumes to function well .
Again, I'd like to suggest that the balance does not have to be as "fine" as
you might think. We've found the systems to be very forgiving in many cases
where our planning was not perfect.
Not only does this
>require your
>production to be balanced, your DEMAND has to be balanced . It is
>very definitely possible that for some crops there is greater demand
>at different times. In a resort community, for example, there is
>seasonal demand for certain products; in the summer people tend to
>eat more salad greens than they do in the winter, etc. In these cases
>you would need greater production at that time to supply demand.
Another reason for diversifying your market so that you are not dependent on
any one sector. For a large operation, there are several natural food
co-ops operating that could pick up any oversupply through the winter
months, or natural food stores in nearby communities, or even some chain
store accounts as Jim has found.
>Ability to tailor production to the climate or season or market
>demands
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>-
>Some of us have experienced difficulties growing certain lettuces (or
>anything else for that matter) in Florida or Texas in the peak of
>summer. However, Tilapia thrive in the sweltering heat. The opposite
>is true in the northern climates - greens may grow happily in the
>winter in a greenhouse but keeping the temperatures up to the levels
>necessary for tilapia production in the winter in Wisconsin is a
>costly proposition. By separating production you can optimize
>production according to the climate or market demands.
>
>In a cooperative arrangement, or a geographically diversified
>operation a grower in Florida could conceivably concentrate on fish
>and nutrient production while a grower in the cooler north could focus
>his resources on greens.
>Seasonality of demand is also an issue, especially in tourist or
>resort areas. If the production facilities could be utilized to the
>maximum during the slow periods to produce fish and biofertilizers,
>then in the busy season production could be directed toward meeting
>the need for fresh greens.
We generally do adjust to the seasons, somewhat, in our effort to avoid high
energy expenses through the winter. If your grower in Florida concentrated
on fish and nutrient production, how would this affect water quality --
assuming the growbeds were taken out of the equation? Or am I
misinterpreting this?
>
>Ability to meet large one-time orders
>----------------------------------------------
>Sometimes a grower has a big one-time order that requires all of his
>tanks to be geared for one big delivery. (Walmart likes to do this -
>put in huge orders a couple of times a year rather than space them our
>throughout the year - it is hell on their suppliers). Having all of
>your tanks producing the same age fish would wreak havoc on an
>integrated system because your production of nutrients would have huge
>swings. If the systems are unlinked this is not an issue.
We encourage fish production, as you know, as a secondary product, with the
primary being the plants/produce grown on the other side, and don't ever
work to clear a system of fish at any time. If we do a mass harvest from a
specific tank, we generally will have enough fish in another to split and
still supply both systems. As for supplying any of the large discount
chains, that's been the death knell for many traditional growers. Besides
the unreasonable demands, the price paid is very difficult to survive on
without extensive mechanization, at least as I've been told.
>
>Ability to produce nutrients in one location and plants in another
>----------------------------------------------------------------
>Zoning, land availability and logistical constraints may place
>restrictions on certain types of agricultural production. Animal
>husbandry may be restricted in one area and plant production in
>another. In my municipality, land which is zoned for agriculture
>CANNOT be used for greenhouse production, but a hen house or other
>types of animal husbandry are OK.
Have you approached them for a permit for an aquaculture facility (under
roof), that uses plant filtration instead of mechanical? Seems as if there
should be some way around that zoning if you claim fish production as your
primary goal. An overwhelming benefit would be the recirculating,
closed-system aspect, especially when many regulatory agencies are taking a
hard line on potentially "invasive, non-native species". The fact that
there is no access to native waters is one of the best selling points of the
system in many locations. Pond culture seems to be the major problem in
Missouri. As long as we're growing indoors, they have no problem with tilapia.
By unlinking the systems the two
>activities can be carried out in separate locations. Likewise, one
>grower may have an interest and skills in the areas of aquaculture but
>not in the tasks related to plant production or vice-versa. By
>unlinking the operations, growers can put their interest, talents and
>marketing skills to their best use.
This is a very good point. Multiple talents are required for aquaponics.
But the learning curve for tilapia is not as drastic as with some other
species. I can tell you that no one was more surprised than we were that
our limited "gardening" experience was sufficient -- I was most gratified to
learn that most our plants grew in spite of us. If we hadn't had this
incentive when we started, we probably would have quit long ago.
>Greater flexibility in source of biofertilizer
>-----------------------------------------
>There is a great interest in organic nutrients for hydroponic
>production. To date, aquaponics have been one of the few reliable
>methods of obtaining this nutrient. By using biodigesters, other
>forms of animal manures and agricultural wastes can be utilized to
>produce biofertilizers. So, if a grower wishes, he or she can use the
>biodigested manures from 25 hens to run a 3,000 square foot
>greenhouse. The grower is not restricted solely to fish culture for
>the production of his biofertilizers. Fish present limitations to
>some prospective growers in terms of marketing, handling, regulations,
>availability of feed, etc. In these instances chickens, pigs, cattle
>or even rabbits could be used to produce the biofertilizer.
>
>Organic certification
>---------------------
>As the American public has become more aware of concerns regarding
>food safety the demand for organic produce has increased dramatically.
>Hydroponic and aquaponic production are currently in a tenuous
>position, with organic certification strictly dependent upon the
>interpretation of the certifying agency. The more you approach some
>of the biological processes of soil based production the easier it
>should be to educate the certifying agencies about our processes.
>Organic certification provides marketing and price advantages to the
>grower.
>
>
>DISADVANTAGES
>Equipment - The main disadvantage of unlinking systems is the need for
>one additional piece of equipment - the biodigester. In a small
>3,000-6,000 square foot greenhouse this would consist of a series of
>drums sized, linked and managed in a very specific sequence to
>optimize biofertilizer production. This requires some additional
>capital expenditure and some space to house the equipment and stored
>biofertilizers.
>
>Time - biodigestion takes time. Depending on the climate it can
>require 30-60 days, possibly more in a very cool climate. So
>biofertilizer needs have to be planned in advance or buffer stocks
>need to be maintained.
>
>Feed Constraints - a biodigester incorporates a very delicate sequence
>of activities involving natural bioorganisms. These actions can be
>disrupted by the presence of antibiotics in animal feed. These
>antibiotics are quite common in the US in poultry feed. Therefore the
>producer is restricted in his or her choice of feed.
>
>All in all, in my opinion the few disadvantages and small additional
>cost are greatly outweighed by the many advantages which are obtained
>by unlinking the systems.
Actually, it sounds as if the "unlinked systems" approach might be best
suited to someone with experience with biodigesting systems. Is this a
difficult concept to master? Your statement that "a biodigester
incorporates a very delicate sequence
>of activities involving natural bioorganisms" would indicate that there's a
learning curve for that portion of the technology as well.
Look forward to your response.
Paula
S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO 65775 417-256-5124
Web page http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
| Message 18
Subject: Re: Unlinking Systems
From: Raul Vergueiro Martins
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 00:09:53 +0100
Hello Kris:
You can store biofertilizer in drums or tanks.
No doubt that you must cover the drums or the tank, as water tends to evaporate, thus
concentrating it.
If you prefer to work with a more concentrated biofertilizer, you can let it concentrate
naturally, by water loosing.
I would not recommend you to heat it for a rapid concentration, as heat can destroy many
of the organic compounds that constitute the soluble humus.
Biofertilizer produced from a completely decomposed organic matter, smells good. Not a
French perfum, but it is a fresh odor.
It will not decompose, as its BDO and DQO are zero.
Raul Vergueiro Martins
rvm 'at' sti.com.br
Adriana Gutierrez wrote:
> Kris,
>
> Go to Raul Vergueiro Martins' web site at http://www.hydor.eng.br/.
> He is currently working on a manual that can be used to set up a
> biodigester for smaller operations. Next month's issue of Growing
> Edge will have an article on the subject as well.
>
> Adriana
>
> > What a great post, I thank you for the brain opener. Do you know of
> any
> > info concerning storage of bio fertilizer. Compost no matter how
> well
> > made needs to be turned(oxygenated) regularly so that salt buildup
> > doesn't ruin it. Also, can you direct me to any photos or drawings
> of a
> > bio-filter like you described?
| Message 19
Subject: Re: Unlinking Systems
From: Raul Vergueiro Martins
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 00:10:22 +0100
Hi Adriana:
You got the point.
You, better than anyone else, know how much I apreciate the work of Paula Speraneo and Jim
Rackocy.
But I continue thinking that any Aquaponics system would work much better, if we unlink
the systems.
At least we will avoid many problems related to the system, specially those related to the
equilibrium of the two antagonistic biomasses involved in it.
Unlinking the systems, will be a great increase in the Aquaponic technology.
Raul Vergueiro Martins
rvm 'at' sti.com.br
Adriana Gutierrez wrote:
> > This is a side loop system or an
> > indirectly coupled system, or a multiply coupled integrated
> agriculture
> > system
>
> Ted, the more I think about it, if sludge is gold, then biofertilizers
> derived from sludge are platinum. Over the past 6 months or so I've
> been thinking about the benefits of setting up a growing operation
> with the nutrient source or fish component "unlinked" from the growing
> beds.
>
> WHAT IS REQUIRED TO UNLINK SYSTEMS?
> In order to "unlink" an aquaponic system you need to incorporate an
> additional step into the process. In this step you separate solids
> from the fish tanks and run the solids through a biodigester. By
> having a built-in solid separation component in your system you
> benefit by avoiding potential sludge build-up in your beds. In most
> cases, (except in exquisitely balanced aquaponic systems) this
> produces a superior fertilizer than the one produced in the growing
> beds with the raw effluent coming in directly from the fish tanks
> because of the nature of the biological activity in a properly
> designed biodigester.
>
> WHAT ARE THE BENEFITS OF UNLINKING SYSTEMS?
> There are a number of benefits to unlinking the fish and the plant
> systems:
>
> Built-in Solid Separation
> ------------------------------------
> While some growers are able to maintain an exquisite balance, new
> aquaponic growers frequently encounter problems with the build-up of
> solids in their beds. This leads to a series of problems with plant
> health, germination, yield, "dead zones", etc, which in turn impact
> the effectiveness of the growing bed as a bio-filter, which in turn
> affects the health of the fish. By building a solid separation
> component into the system some of these problems are avoided from the
> outset.
>
> Superior fertilizer
> -------------------
> A properly designed biodigester for a hydroponic/aquaponic operation
> will have as its primary function the production of a water soluble
> biofertilizer. Traditionally, biodigesters have focused on the
> production of methane gas and, as a consequence, do not completely
> digest the biosolids, resulting in an inferior fertilizer an some
> sludge residue. The anaerobic and aerobic processes of a properly
> designed biodigester whose primary function is the production of
> biofertilizer will produce a superior product over fish effluent which
> is routed directly into growing beds, manure compost teas and
> conventional hydroponic fertilizers. The end result will be increased
> yields and superior flavor.
>
> Protection in case of a system crash
> --------------------------------------------------------
> It is not unheard of that aquaponic systems crash due to disease
> problems or mechanical problems. When the fish side of the operation
> is shut down or production is suddenly reduced, this creates an
> problem for the plant side since the nutrient supply is immediately
> affected. It is also possible for the plant side of an operation to
> crash - aphids or pest problems or a freeze or pump breakdown
> sometimes require a premature clearing of growing beds to eliminate a
> problem. An unscheduled reduction in plant volume will affect the
> filtration of the fish effluent and could affect the water quality and
> health of the fish. By unlinking the plant and fish sides of the
> operation and having a buffer supply of nutrients available, the
> operations can be maintained independent of the status of the other
> component.
>
> Ability to have production volumes which are independent of one
> another
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----
> An aquaponic system requires a very fine balance of fish
> and plant production volumes to function well . Not only does this
> require your
> production to be balanced, your DEMAND has to be balanced . It is
> very definitely possible that for some crops there is greater demand
> at different times. In a resort community, for example, there is
> seasonal demand for certain products; in the summer people tend to
> eat more salad greens than they do in the winter, etc. In these cases
> you would need greater production at that time to supply demand.
>
> Ability to tailor production to the climate or season or market
> demands
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> -
> Some of us have experienced difficulties growing certain lettuces (or
> anything else for that matter) in Florida or Texas in the peak of
> summer. However, Tilapia thrive in the sweltering heat. The opposite
> is true in the northern climates - greens may grow happily in the
> winter in a greenhouse but keeping the temperatures up to the levels
> necessary for tilapia production in the winter in Wisconsin is a
> costly proposition. By separating production you can optimize
> production according to the climate or market demands.
>
> In a cooperative arrangement, or a geographically diversified
> operation a grower in Florida could conceivably concentrate on fish
> and nutrient production while a grower in the cooler north could focus
> his resources on greens.
>
> Seasonality of demand is also an issue, especially in tourist or
> resort areas. If the production facilities could be utilized to the
> maximum during the slow periods to produce fish and biofertilizers,
> then in the busy season production could be directed toward meeting
> the need for fresh greens.
>
> Ability to meet large one-time orders
> ----------------------------------------------
> Sometimes a grower has a big one-time order that requires all of his
> tanks to be geared for one big delivery. (Walmart likes to do this -
> put in huge orders a couple of times a year rather than space them our
> throughout the year - it is hell on their suppliers). Having all of
> your tanks producing the same age fish would wreak havoc on an
> integrated system because your production of nutrients would have huge
> swings. If the systems are unlinked this is not an issue.
>
> Ability to produce nutrients in one location and plants in another
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> Zoning, land availability and logistical constraints may place
> restrictions on certain types of agricultural production. Animal
> husbandry may be restricted in one area and plant production in
> another. In my municipality, land which is zoned for agriculture
> CANNOT be used for greenhouse production, but a hen house or other
> types of animal husbandry are OK. By unlinking the systems the two
> activities can be carried out in separate locations. Likewise, one
> grower may have an interest and skills in the areas of aquaculture but
> not in the tasks related to plant production or vice-versa. By
> unlinking the operations, growers can put their interest, talents and
> marketing skills to their best use.
>
> Greater flexibility in source of biofertilizer
> -----------------------------------------
> There is a great interest in organic nutrients for hydroponic
> production. To date, aquaponics have been one of the few reliable
> methods of obtaining this nutrient. By using biodigesters, other
> forms of animal manures and agricultural wastes can be utilized to
> produce biofertilizers. So, if a grower wishes, he or she can use the
> biodigested manures from 25 hens to run a 3,000 square foot
> greenhouse. The grower is not restricted solely to fish culture for
> the production of his biofertilizers. Fish present limitations to
> some prospective growers in terms of marketing, handling, regulations,
> availability of feed, etc. In these instances chickens, pigs, cattle
> or even rabbits could be used to produce the biofertilizer.
>
> Organic certification
> ---------------------
> As the American public has become more aware of concerns regarding
> food safety the demand for organic produce has increased dramatically.
> Hydroponic and aquaponic production are currently in a tenuous
> position, with organic certification strictly dependent upon the
> interpretation of the certifying agency. The more you approach some
> of the biological processes of soil based production the easier it
> should be to educate the certifying agencies about our processes.
> Organic certification provides marketing and price advantages to the
> grower.
>
> DISADVANTAGES
> Equipment - The main disadvantage of unlinking systems is the need for
> one additional piece of equipment - the biodigester. In a small
> 3,000-6,000 square foot greenhouse this would consist of a series of
> drums sized, linked and managed in a very specific sequence to
> optimize biofertilizer production. This requires some additional
> capital expenditure and some space to house the equipment and stored
> biofertilizers.
>
> Time - biodigestion takes time. Depending on the climate it can
> require 30-60 days, possibly more in a very cool climate. So
> biofertilizer needs have to be planned in advance or buffer stocks
> need to be maintained.
>
> Feed Constraints - a biodigester incorporates a very delicate sequence
> of activities involving natural bioorganisms. These actions can be
> disrupted by the presence of antibiotics in animal feed. These
> antibiotics are quite common in the US in poultry feed. Therefore the
> producer is restricted in his or her choice of feed.
>
> All in all, in my opinion the few disadvantages and small additional
> cost are greatly outweighed by the many advantages which are obtained
> by unlinking the systems.
| Message 20
Subject: Re: The Value of Sludge
From: Raul Vergueiro Martins
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 00:11:15 +0100
Hello Adriana:
I gess I made some comments to this message.
My friend, you are a high level teacher. Congratulations.
Best regards
Raul Vergueiro Martins
rvm 'at' sti.com.br
Adriana Gutierrez wrote:
> Ted,
> Raul Vergueiro Martins has been rather quiet lately on-line as some
> health problems are limiting his ability to sit at the computer. If
> we listen to our own list member from Brazil, this sludge should be
> biodigested to produce an excellent water soluble biofertilizer which
> can be used for EITHER soil or hydroponic production. This
> biofertilizer is SUPERIOR to unprocessed sludge because of the
> microbiological processes that it has undergone. My point is, you
> don't need 100 lower-yielding acres of conventional in-ground
> production capability; you can increase your hydroponic produ ction
> with theis valuable "waste". Obviously there are certain crops which
> are not appropriate for hydro production and this is an excellent
> fertilizer for them.
> > Is this fish sludge a problem? Or is it a resource? Is it something
> to
> > "throw away"? If you take John Reid's example, you can place that
> sludge
> > from the 21,000 sq.ft fish farm and spray it on 100 acres of land
> for
> > conventional dirt crop production. All of you should take that
> ratio and
> > think about what you might be able to achieve in your back yard or
> in your
> > "back forty".
>
> Ted, does focusing on algae production reduce your nutrients available
> for aquaponic production of lettuces, greens, tomatoes, etc? I assume
> that, based on Raul's findings the biodigested algal mass would
> produce even higher yields than if it was applied directly and the
> logistics of dealing with fibers and other things which clog spraying
> equipment would be eliminated.
> > Believe me, I can tell you that a steady stream of high protein
> > algal biomass sprayed onto a raised bed outdoor garden will result
> in a
> > phenomenal resource for your homestead food production system. This
> is
> > awesome.
>
> > Sludge is Gold....
>
> Ca-peach!!!
> > Ca-Peach?
>
> Adriana in Birmingham
> (still without a greenhouse)
> Adriana
| Message 21
Subject: Re: The Value of Sludge
From: Raul Vergueiro Martins
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 00:11:39 +0100
Hello Ted and Adriana:
Adriana Gutierrez wrote:
> Ted,
> Raul Vergueiro Martins has been rather quiet lately on-line as some
> health problems are limiting his ability to sit at the computer.
Here I am my friends. Even with these health problems, I continue working. I just need
more rest than the normal, as my legs are not helping me too much.
> If we listen to our own list member from Brazil, this sludge should be
> biodigested to produce an excellent water soluble biofertilizer which
> can be used for EITHER soil or hydroponic production. This
> biofertilizer is SUPERIOR to unprocessed sludge because of the
> microbiological processes that it has undergone. My point is, you
> don't need 100 lower-yielding acres of conventional in-ground
> production capability; you can increase your hydroponic produ ction
> with theis valuable "waste". Obviously there are certain crops which
> are not appropriate for hydro production and this is an excellent
> fertilizer for them.
You are right, Adriana. Biofertilizer is an excellent fertilizer, and it carries a large
ammount of soluble humus, that not only will help in maintaining the soil pH, but also in
the equilibrium of the nutrient elements.
> > Is this fish sludge a problem? Or is it a resource? Is it something
> to
> > "throw away"? If you take John Reid's example, you can place that
> sludge
> > from the 21,000 sq.ft fish farm and spray it on 100 acres of land
> for
> > conventional dirt crop production. All of you should take that
> ratio and
> > think about what you might be able to achieve in your back yard or
> in your
> > "back forty".
>
> Ted, does focusing on algae production reduce your nutrients available
> for aquaponic production of lettuces, greens, tomatoes, etc? I assume
> that, based on Raul's findings the biodigested algal mass would
> produce even higher yields than if it was applied directly and the
> logistics of dealing with fibers and other things which clog spraying
> equipment would be eliminated.
The internal chambers of a biodigester are under complete darkness, and algae will have no
light to develop and survive. They die, and are biodigested as the whole biomass. So,
they are converted in nutrients too.
> > Believe me, I can tell you that a steady stream of high protein
> > algal biomass sprayed onto a raised bed outdoor garden will result
> in a
> > phenomenal resource for your homestead food production system. This
> is
> > awesome.
>
> > Sludge is Gold....
Yes, it is, if we deal with it in a rational process.
> Adriana in Birmingham
> (still without a greenhouse)
The greehouse will come soon, my friend.
Raul Vergueiro Martins
rvm 'at' sti.com.br
|
