Aquaponics Digest - Wed 05/02/01

Message 1: Biodigesters cooperative relationships from "Adriana Gutierrez" Message 2: Aquaponic system in Philippines from "Tony Cooper" Message 3: Apology from "Laura Dalton" Message 4: Re: Biodigesters cooperative relationships from "Devon Williams" Message 5: Re: Biodigesters cooperative relationships from kris book Message 6: Chicken manure from "Adriana Gutierrez" Message 7: Re: Chicken manure from "Adriana Gutierrez" Message 8: Re: Chicken manure from "Devon Williams" Message 9: need to unsubscribe from Jessica Berkson Message 10: Re: Unlinking Systems from kris book Message 11: Re: Unlinking Systems from marc 'at' aculink.net Message 12: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Mon 04/30/01 from DAVEINBHAM 'at' aol.com | Message 1 Subject: Biodigesters cooperative relationships From: "Adriana Gutierrez" Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 05:15:09 -0500 Hi Judy, This is exactly the type of possibilities that this technology opens up. Because the nutrients are in a liquified, concentrated form, however, shipping will probably not be economically feasible. But if you locate a local grower you can definitely set up a simbiotic relationship. I'm thinking of seeing if a local CSA will do the same for me here in Birmingham. Where are you located? Maybe there is a grower near you on this list. Otherwise you can check with the extension service and health food stores to see if there are any existing organic farmers nearby who I'm sure would be delighted to have you supply them with high quality nutrients. Talk about sustainability! Adriana > Adriana this is Judy Bailey as you may remember I am a poultry grower I > was wondering if we could form a mutually benificial relationship by us > having the biodigester and us supplying the organic nutrients to the > growers? | Message 2 Subject: Aquaponic system in Philippines From: "Tony Cooper" Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 22:17:07 -0700 Hope this doesn't violate the advertising ban but I have a complete working Aquaponic system that I have to sell. This would be only of interest to list members in the Philippines as I cannot ship. Anyone interested please contact me off list. Tony Cooper Pampanga Philippines | Message 3 Subject: Apology From: "Laura Dalton" Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 09:15:14 -0500 All: Please accept my apology for posting in html format. I know better and just forgot. Laura Laura E. Dalton Victoria Gardens Bed & Breakfast 1461 State Route BB West Plains, MO 65775 (417) 256-3268 laura 'at' victoria-gardens.com www.victoria-gardens.com | Message 4 Subject: Re: Biodigesters cooperative relationships From: "Devon Williams" Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 10:43:08 -0400 O.k., given that I am TOTALLY uninformed about the whole biodigester thing, I had one question. I read somewhere (I'm pretty sure in one of the list posts) that chicken manure should not be used in biodigestion. Is this the case? Thanks! Devon >From: "Adriana Gutierrez" >Reply-To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com >To: >Subject: Biodigesters cooperative relationships >Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 05:15:09 -0500 > >Hi Judy, >This is exactly the type of possibilities that this technology opens >up. Because the nutrients are in a liquified, concentrated form, >however, shipping will probably not be economically feasible. But if >you locate a local grower you can definitely set up a simbiotic >relationship. I'm thinking of seeing if a local CSA will do the same >for me here in Birmingham. > >Where are you located? Maybe there is a grower near you on this list. >Otherwise you can check with the extension service and health food >stores to see if there are any existing organic farmers nearby who I'm >sure would be delighted to have you supply them with high quality >nutrients. Talk about sustainability! > >Adriana > > > Adriana this is Judy Bailey as you may remember I am a poultry >grower I > > was wondering if we could form a mutually benificial relationship by >us > > having the biodigester and us supplying the organic nutrients to the > > growers? > | Message 5 Subject: Re: Biodigesters cooperative relationships From: kris book Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 09:35:47 -0600 Judy, "If you build it, they will come". "Field of Dreams" Micro-turbine technology today is very expensive to purchase but, with its multi-fuel capabilities competition will drive the price down very quickly. When that happens, a bio-digester gas station is going to mighty popular place. In the mean time you could power your poultry farm on chicken poop and turn your fields into fertile ground. In the next few years, traditional power prices are going to go thru the roof and everyone not just organic farmers will be looking for cheap fuel or fertilizer. If our gasoline prices go as high as Europe's, the whole time line on bio-digester use will increase expotentially. The oil industry is herding us towards independence, and I say the sooner the better. kris _________ Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. | Message 6 Subject: Chicken manure From: "Adriana Gutierrez" Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 13:03:24 -0500 Devon, Chicken manure is one of the best manure candidates for biodigestion because of its concentrated nature. Adriana > I read somewhere (I'm pretty sure in one of the list posts) that chicken > manure should not be used in biodigestion. Is this the case? | Message 7 Subject: Re: Chicken manure From: "Adriana Gutierrez" Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 13:14:50 -0500 Devon, Just be sure that the feed has NO ANTIBIOTICS in it or it will kill the micro-organisms. Adriana > > I read somewhere (I'm pretty sure in one of the list posts) that > chicken > > manure should not be used in biodigestion. Is this the case? > > | Message 8 Subject: Re: Chicken manure From: "Devon Williams" Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 16:18:10 -0400 Well, who knows where I got my misinformation .Thanks for setting me straight, Adriana. Devon Williams Beer Belly Brothers Brewing Watkinsville, GA ooooo | oo=| | .o | | .| | | .|=| |___| >From: "Adriana Gutierrez" >Reply-To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com >To: >Subject: Re: Chicken manure >Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 13:14:50 -0500 > >Devon, >Just be sure that the feed has NO ANTIBIOTICS in it or it will kill >the micro-organisms. > >Adriana > > > > I read somewhere (I'm pretty sure in one of the list posts) that > > chicken > > > manure should not be used in biodigestion. Is this the case? > > > > > | Message 9 Subject: need to unsubscribe From: Jessica Berkson Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 16:14:13 -0700 would somebody be so kind as to forward me the "unsubscribe" information for this list? my mail box is overflowing. Thank you Jessica | Message 10 Subject: Re: Unlinking Systems From: kris book Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 19:11:18 -0600 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ----__JNP_000_5c50.0616.2acf Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey Meir, I haven't even done a search on the web yet for these books, I've been busier than a cat covering shit all day, taking care of my wife. I am not complaining, it's real nice to have her home. We still have no clue to what causes her to just stop breathing. We'll all go to Craig Hospital in Denver in 2 weeks to see what they can find. OK back to the books, here is a post that may have what you asked for. Please let me know if you find any of these books, I would like to have them too. Namaste, kris I really wonder what the basis is to make the very bold statement that the digested slurry from a thermophilic digester has no fertilizer value. The latter has been extensively examined and the following two publications indicate that, on the contrary, effluents from thermophilic digesters have a very high fertilizer value. 'Processing of biowaste by anaerobic composting' by Vermeulen et al, 1993, Wat. Sci. Technol. 27(2) 109-119. 'Manure and municipal solid waste fermentation' by Baeten and Verstraete, 1988, in Biological wastes, Elsevier Sci. Publishers. Perhaps one may think that more ammonia escapes with biogas during thermophilic compared to mesophilic digestion; this is however negligible, since biogas from thermophilic digesters contain 50 to 300 mg NH3 per cubic meter biogas. I would suggest that such brash statements be supported by scientific data, or at least any data, in order not to mislead uninformed readers. In fact, slurries from thermophilic digesters are preferred over those from mesophilic digesters because they are pathogen-free (Bendixen, 1994, Water Sci and Technol, 30, 171-180) whereas effluents from mesophilic digesters are usually not (Stukenberg et al, 1994, Water Environ. Res. 66, 255-263). It takes about 6 weeks at 35 deg Celsius to kill Ascaris and Salmonella in an anaerobic reactor, but only one day at 55 deg C (Vandevivere and Verstraete, 2000, Environmental applications (chapter 24), In Basic Biotechnol., Ed Kristiansen). So, manures which are treated anaerobically in Europe under mesophilic conditions are often times pasteurized before the actual digestion in order to ensure sufficient pathogen kill off. This additionnal treatment step incurs high investment and running costs and is carried out only because it is necessary. Again, the very innovative statement that a low redox would be sufficient to kill off pathogens really needs references for back up. Dr Philippe Vandevivere >From: doelle >Reply-To: "IBSnet: Electronic Seminars" >To: ET-W2 'at' SEGATE.SUNET.SE >Subject: Re: [POLY-DIG] INTRO: Jacky Foo (Sweden) >Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 08:08:58 +1000 > >Hi Paul, > >I fully agree again with your comparison of retention time and >temperature. >You can reduce retention time with higher temperatures. However, >high >temperature digestion is giving you a progressively lower fertiliser >value >sludge and effluent. There are high temperature digesters on the >market and >many experts suggest such a system. They are good to get rid of the >waste >and get high methane values, BUT the residue has much lower, if any, >fertilizer value. In my opinion, a high temperature, short retention >time >digester is not good for the farmer, who requires soil improving >fertiliser >and mineral rich effluent. I have seen data which indicate that you >can get >an effluent with almost 90% BOD reduction using high temperature and >short >retention time digesters. But they are useless for the farmer. >That s my opinion. >Thus, it all depends what you want the digester for : urban areas or >rural >areas. There is certainly a demand in urban areas for high >temperature, low >retention time digestion, but in rural areas, one should never leave >mesophilic temperature with slightly higher retention time and good >fertiliser and/or algae feed products. >Horst Doelle On Mon, 30 Apr 2001 04:22:38 +0200 "Meir Leshem" writes: > Hi Kris > THANKS for your response. > I do hope things will turn good with your wifes health > Keep up the good work and let me the address requested WHEN you jave > the > time for it > Meir > ----------------------------------------------------- > Click here for Free Video!! > http://www.gohip.com/free_video/ > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: kris book > To: > Sent: Monday, April 30, 2001 2:31 AM > Subject: Re: Unlinking Systems > > > > Meir, > > > > This discussion wasn't about USDA until someone brought it up at > the end. > > Fact is, that I find the organic standards are set so low that I'm > hoping > > someone comes up with a higher standard to judge the purity of > food. And > > when I got this whole thing going, it was me that was searching > for that > > same web site that you're asking about. There's been an e-mail > seminar > > going on for a few months concerning bio-digesters. My wife is in > the > > hospital for sixth time this year so I've only had time to put the > 300(?) > > posts into folders and skim read a few. There's a couple of other > people > > on this list that have more info, if they would like to speak. If > you > > don't get your answer, ask again and I'll hunt down some info for > you. > > > > kris book > > kris 'at' juno.com > > _________ > > > > > > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: > > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > > > > ----__JNP_000_5c50.0616.2acf Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hey Meir,

I haven't even done a search on the web yet for these books, I've been= =20 busier than a cat covering shit all day, taking care of my wife. I am not=20 complaining, it's real nice to have her home. We still have no clue to what= =20 causes her to just stop breathing. We'll all go to Craig Hospital in Denver= in 2=20 weeks to see what they can find. OK back to the books, here is a post that = may=20 have what you asked for. Please let me know if you find any of these books,= I=20 would like to have them too.

Namaste,

kris

I really wonder what the basis is to make the very bold statement that = the=20 digested slurry from a thermophilic digester has no fertilizer value. = The=20 latter has been extensively examined and the following two publications = indicate=20 that, on the contrary, effluents from thermophilic digesters have a very = high=20 fertilizer value.

'Processing of biowaste by anaerobic composting' by Vermeulen et al, = 1993,=20 Wat. Sci. Technol. 27(2) 109-119.

'Manure and municipal solid waste fermentation' by Baeten and Verstraete= ,=20 1988, in Biological wastes, Elsevier Sci. Publishers.

Perhaps one may think that more ammonia escapes with biogas during=20 thermophilic compared to mesophilic digestion; this is however negligible, = since=20 biogas from thermophilic digesters contain 50 to 300 mg NH3 per cubic meter= =20 biogas.

I would suggest that such brash statements be supported by scientific = data,=20 or at least any data, in order not to mislead uninformed readers.

In fact, slurries from thermophilic digesters are preferred over those = from=20 mesophilic digesters because they are pathogen-free (Bendixen, 1994, Water = Sci=20 and Technol, 30, 171-180) whereas effluents from mesophilic digesters are=20 usually not (Stukenberg et al, 1994, Water Environ. Res. 66, 255-263). = ; It=20 takes about 6 weeks at 35 deg Celsius to kill Ascaris and Salmonella in an= =20 anaerobic reactor, but only one day at 55 deg C (Vandevivere and Verstraete= ,=20 2000, Environmental applications (chapter 24), In Basic Biotechnol., Ed=20 Kristiansen). So, manures which are treated anaerobically in Europe under=20 mesophilic conditions are often times pasteurized before the actual = digestion in=20 order to ensure sufficient pathogen kill off. This additionnal = treatment=20 step incurs high investment and running costs and is carried out only = because it=20 is necessary. Again, the very innovative statement that a low redox = would=20 be sufficient to kill off pathogens really needs references for back up.

Dr Philippe Vandevivere

>From: doelle=20

>Reply-To: "IBSnet: Electronic Seminars"=20

>To: ET-W2 'at' SEGATE.SUNET.SE=20

>Subject: Re: [POLY-DIG] INTRO: Jacky Foo (Sweden)=20

>Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 08:08:58 +1000=20

>=20

>Hi Paul,=20

>=20

>I fully agree again with your comparison of retention time = and=20

>temperature.=20

>You can reduce retention time with higher temperatures. = However,=20

>high=20

>temperature digestion is giving you a progressively lower=20 fertiliser=20

>value=20

>sludge and effluent. There are high temperature digesters on= the=20

>market and=20

>many experts suggest such a system. They are good to get rid= of=20 the=20

>waste=20

>and get high methane values, BUT the residue has much lower,= if=20 any,=20

>fertilizer value. In my opinion, a high temperature, short=20 retention=20

>time=20

>digester is not good for the farmer, who requires soil = improving=20

>fertiliser=20

>and mineral rich effluent. I have seen data which indicate = that=20 you=20

>can get=20

>an effluent with almost 90% BOD reduction using high = temperature=20 and=20

>short=20

>retention time digesters. But they are useless for the = farmer.=20

>That s my opinion.=20

>Thus, it all depends what you want the digester for : urban = areas=20 or=20

>rural=20

>areas. There is certainly a demand in urban areas for high=20

>temperature, low=20

>retention time digestion, but in rural areas, one should = never=20 leave=20

>mesophilic temperature with slightly higher retention time = and=20 good=20

>fertiliser and/or algae feed products.=20

>Horst Doelle

http://www.hotmail.com.

On Mon, 30 Apr 2001 04:22:38 +0200 "Meir Leshem" <lev_sup 'at' netvision.net.il>=20 writes:
> Hi Kris
> THANKS for your response.
> I do hope= =20 things will turn good with your wifes health
> Keep up the good= work=20 and let me the address requested WHEN you jave
> the
> time = for=20 it
> Meir
>=20 -----------------------------------------------------
> Click here = for=20 Free Video!!
> http://www.gohip.com/free_video/<= /A>
>=20
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: kris book <krisbook 'at' juno.com>
> To: <= ;aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com>
&= gt;=20 Sent: Monday, April 30, 2001 2:31 AM
> Subject: Re: Unlinking=20 Systems
>
>
> > Meir,
> >
> > This= =20 discussion wasn't about USDA until someone brought it up at
> the=20 end.
> > Fact is, that I find the organic standards are set so low= that=20 I'm
> hoping
> > someone comes up with a higher standard to= =20 judge the purity of
> food. And
> > when I got this whole = thing=20 going, it was me that was searching
> for that
> > same web= site=20 that you're asking about. There's been an e-mail
> seminar
> &= gt;=20 going on for a few months concerning bio-digesters. My wife is in
>= =20 the
> > hospital for sixth time this year so I've only had time to= put=20 the
> 300(?)
> > posts into folders and skim read a few. = There's=20 a couple of other
> people
> > on this list that have more = info,=20 if they would like to speak. If
> you
> > don't get your = answer,=20 ask again and I'll hunt down some info for
> you.
> >
&= gt;=20 > kris book
> > kris 'at' juno.com
> >=20 _________
> &= gt;=20
> > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM = Internet=20 access for less!
> > Join Juno today! For your FREE software= ,=20 visit:
> > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
>=20 >
>
>

----__JNP_000_5c50.0616.2acf-- _________ Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. | Message 11 Subject: Re: Unlinking Systems From: marc 'at' aculink.net Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 20:28:46 -0600 Should I put this list on the adult filter? > kris book wrote: > > Hey Meir, > > I haven't even done a search on the web yet for these > books, I've been busier than a cat covering XXXX .snip. | Message 12 Subject: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Mon 04/30/01 From: DAVEINBHAM 'at' aol.com Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 22:38:03 EDT In a message dated 5/1/01 12:08:37 AM Central Daylight Time, aquaponics-digest-request 'at' townsqr.com writes: << ' Subject: Re: Unlinking Systems From: marc 'at' aculink.net Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 19:43:02 -0600 A careful listing of "FELT" freedoms from my upbringing, popular literature, movies, folk lore etc. when compared to ACTUAL laws, police actions and court rulings illustrated that perhaps the USA has the best self delusion in the world regarding itself as a free society. The brief promise of freedom our country enjoyed during its first few years may again exist somewhere - sometime. The problem is our bloated freedom supression system stems from social warfare imposed on citizens by fellow citizens in the name of forming a perfect society. I suspect perfection can only exist if there is no food for debate. Seems all must think alike for perfection to exist. Marc >> **************************************************************** To all interested parties, Back in the roaring twenties my late great auntie had an interesting experience. As a young lady she went to take a nationally known diet pill to keep her schoolgirl figure. Just as she went to swallow the pill the phone rang. She cradled the pill in her hand while talking on the phone. In a few minutes the pill began to move. Turns out it was a tapeworm larvae in the pill. The national furor following her story in the national press was probably instrumental in the passage of the pure food act a couple years later. If anyone has a beef with government regulations regarding food and/or drugs just keep Auntie Bonnie's story in mind when you start to bitch. I, personally, will take government regulations over unfettered Capitolism and day. Regards, Dave