Aquaponics Digest - Mon 05/28/01
Message 1: Re: Apology to Steve and list was: Intro/Background was: "Giving Up!"
from "STEVE SPRING"
Message 2: Re: tomatoes, etc.
from "STEVE SPRING"
Message 3: Tomatos, lettuce
.what next?
from "STEVE SPRING"
Message 4: Re: tomatoes, etc.
from Jim
Message 5: Shade Cloth, Newby Questions ( Help ) needed
from "Hurst, Steve ( China)"
Message 6: Re: Tomatos, lettuce
.what next?
from "Barry Thomas"
Message 7: FAQ's - fish food sources
from "gutierrez-lagatta"
Message 8: Re: Shade Cloth, Newby Questions ( Help ) needed
from "gutierrez-lagatta"
Message 9: Re: Shade Cloth, Newby Questions ( Help ) needed
from Jim Joyner
Message 10: Re: Hi All
from "Chris G"
Message 11: Re: Shade Cloth, Newby Questions ( Help ) needed
from "TGTX"
Message 12: Re: Tough Love for Steve
from "Devon Williams"
Message 13: Growbed questions for Bert McLaughlin was: Introduction
from Bill Patrick
Message 14: Re: Tomatos, lettuce
.what next?
from "TGTX"
Message 15: Re: Growbed questions for Bert McLaughlin was: Introduction
from "TGTX"
Message 16: Re: Growbed questions for Bert McLaughlin was: Introduction
from "TGTX"
Message 17: Re: another system update/ a mention of growth
from fred kious
Message 18: Re: Growbed questions for Bert McLaughlin was: Introduction
from Bill Patrick
Message 19: Re: Tough Love for Steve
./Reminder for Bookmarks.
from dreadlox 'at' cwjamaica.com
Message 20: Re: Shade Cloth, Newby Questions ( Help ) needed
from fishmanbruce 'at' webtv.net (Bruce Schreiber)
Message 21: Re: Shade Cloth, Newby Questions ( Help ) needed
from kris book
Message 22: Re: Shade Cloth, Newby Questions ( Help ) needed
from marc 'at' aculink.net
Message 23: Re: Tomatos, lettuce
.what next?
from fishmanbruce 'at' webtv.net (Bruce Schreiber)
Message 24: Re: Shade Cloth, Newby Questions ( Help ) needed
from marc 'at' aculink.net
Message 25: Re: Tomatos, lettuce
.what next?
from marc 'at' aculink.net
Message 26: Re: TOP TEN FOODS, was: another system update
from fishmanbruce 'at' webtv.net (Bruce Schreiber)
Message 27: Affordable Source of Beds
from "Stan Clayton"
Message 28: Re: Affordable Source of Beds
from fishmanbruce 'at' webtv.net (Bruce Schreiber)
Message 29: Re: Affordable Source of Beds
from Bill Patrick
Message 30: Pond Aerator Solutions
from dreadlox 'at' cwjamaica.com
Message 31: RE: Pond Aerator Solutions
from "billevans"
Message 32: Re: Affordable Source of Beds
from "Laura Dalton"
Message 33: Re: Pond Aerator Solutions
from fishmanbruce 'at' webtv.net (Bruce Schreiber)
Message 34: Re: Affordable Source of Beds
from "TGTX"
Message 35: Re: Affordable Source of Beds
from "Nick"
Message 36: Re: Tomatos, lettuce
.what next?
from fishmanbruce 'at' webtv.net (Bruce Schreiber)
Message 37: Re: Pond Aerator Solutions
from "Arlos"
Message 38: Re: Growbed questions for Bert McLaughlin was: Introduction
from Bertmcl 'at' aol.com
Message 39: Re: Affordable Source of Beds
from Bertmcl 'at' aol.com
Message 40: Re: Affordable Source of Beds
from Jim
Message 41: Re: Shade Cloth, Newby Questions ( Help ) needed
from "gutierrez-lagatta"
Message 42: Re: TOP TEN FOODS, was: another system update
from "TGTX"
Message 43: Re: another system update
from Katie Rezendes
Message 44: Fish Problem
from Katie Rezendes
Message 45: Re: Growbed questions for Bert McLaughlin was: Introduction
from "TGTX"
Message 46: Re: Fish Problem
from "TGTX"
Message 47: Re: TOP TEN FOODS, was: another system update
from fishmanbruce 'at' webtv.net (Bruce Schreiber)
Message 48: apricots
from "gutierrez-lagatta"
Message 49: RE: TOP TEN FOODS, was: another system update
from "Richard & Faye"
| Message 1
Subject: Re: Apology to Steve and list was: Intro/Background was: "Giving Up!"
From: "STEVE SPRING"
Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 23:57:09 -0500
Thanks Bill,
Sorry if I read you wrong. I mean "Gee Whiz", I always post such "perfect"
messages and "hardly ever" step on toes. ;-) YEAH, RIGHT!
Take care Pal. All is well.
Steve :)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Patrick"
To:
Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2001 9:38 AM
Subject: OT: Apology to Steve and list was: Intro/Background was: "Giving
Up!"
Gosh Steve,
I was just kidding around and poking a little fun. I didn't intend to
blast Ada (and didn't realize I did) in fact I think she is providing
the list with a useful service which is why I replied (By the way great
Bio Devon, put mine to shame). Sorry about my poor command of the
English, but after a long day and a few beers, I have an even harder
time proof reading my on work than normal. As as far as the "the bore
you/too bad" thing goes. I guess I'm just a little sensitive when ever
I post something "off topic" because I know it bothers some people. But
then I think "hey wait a minute" isn't it easier to hit "delete" when
you see a subject you are not interested in then reply back as the list
police with a nasty-gram. Hope you and Bruce enjoyed the Milwaukee
Aquarium Society, maybe Emmett and I can get together sometime. This is
a great list and I also feel the "family thing" maybe that's why we
"quarrel" some.
Luv ah too dude (I'd even give you my last Budwieser),
Bill
My karma ran over my dogma
P.S. I'm watching/reading your bream and tropical fish endeavor with
interest (sorry about your tilapia), at least you are doing while all
I'm doing is reading and dreaming.
STEVE SPRING wrote:
>
> WOW!
>
> Here I go again.
>
> Seems as if this "Ada" is a very nice person
.albeit, with an unusual
> request.
>
> But, here comes Bill Patrick, "rocket scientist" who doesn't even have a
> good command of English to blast her. And he says, If I bore you, "TOO
> BAD"!! (How does that go Ted
.Oy Vey!!??)
>
> By the way Bill, "Socially Insensitive" is trademarked to me. Find your
own
> "handle".
>
> I just love the way I make "sparks" fly. Don't you just hate me??
>
> Luv ya anyway
>
> By the way, Bruce Schreiber and I are going to to Milwauke Aquarium
Society
> meeting tomorrow night
.I'm really looking forward to incorporating the
> tropicals into the aquaponic system
We'll see how this works. Keep ya
> posted if interested.
>
| Message 2
Subject: Re: tomatoes, etc.
From: "STEVE SPRING"
Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 00:17:31 -0500
Hi Jim,
Thanks again. The idea of the plastic drum for a settling tank is very, very
interesting. Would this be set up vertically or horizontally? I assume you
would pump into the bottom and discharge from the top. I find this
particularly interesting because I already have one set up. I tried to use
it as a filter and filled it with sand and pea gravel. This configuration
was TOO successful. It plugged fairly rapidly, within a few days. (This was
before the massacre though.) BUT, as a settling tank w/o the
sand/peagravel
.now, that's a different thought. This is a vertical set-up.
What are your thoughts?
The 65F was just a figure pulled "out of the air". I was only thinking of
electricity. What would be a reasonable temp for the bluegills? What fish do
you raise in your system before putting into your pond?
Thanks again
.RSVP
.Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim"
To:
Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2001 2:10 PM
Subject: Re: tomatoes, etc.
500 bluegill fingerlings will be ok for a while, but you're going to
have to cheat(1) a bit on your filter system if you don't get more grow
beds going soon or transfer some of the fish to the pond.
I use the aquaponic system to start fish and then transfer them to net
cages in open water once they get up in size a bit.
65 deg will be ok for maintaining the fish, but their growth rate (and
feed intake/nutrient production for the plants) will fall off
You
mentioned how nasty the tilapia were in your system with the limited
filtration
Just wait 'til you see what 500 grown Bream leave behind
with insufficient filtration media.
Jim
(1) you will need more frequent water changes and a system to separate
out solids. This can be as simple as a plastic drum plumbed in-line
used as a settling tank.
Jim
STEVE SPRING wrote:
>
> Hi Jim , Paula, Adrianna, et. al.,
>
> #1 to Jim. Thanks again for your informative post. Would I be able to grow
> out about 500 hybrid bluegills? The reason I ask this is that I want to
> order 1500 bluegills. Put 1,000 in the pond and put 500 in the tanks and
see
> which group fares the best. Any input would be appreciated. The 500 would
be
> in groups of 250 in 2- 800 gal tanks. Also, I want to control the temp of
> the tanks to +/- 65F throughout the winter.
>
> Thanks
.Steve
| Message 3
Subject: Tomatos, lettuce
.what next?
From: "STEVE SPRING"
Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 01:27:29 -0500
Hi Gang,
I'm kind of "stumped" here. Don't know exactly what to do next and could use
some help from my "guru" friends.
I may be a little redundant, but just to refresh: My indoor system is inside
an outside storage shed that is apprx. 25' x 20'. We absolutely rebuilt this
shed, reinsulated, re-roofed etc. There is almost no natural light in the
shed. There is one window that is apprx. 3' x 3'
.not much. I have 2 800
gal polytanks that are separated by a clarifier. These are connected to 5
growbeds with a total surface area of apprx. 60 sq. ft.(All the room I
have.) (Yes Paula, seems as if my original numbers were closer to the
truth.)
I tried growing lettuce which grew well, but was long-legged. (I lit them by
fluorescent and had the lights right down on top of them.) I would love to
grow lettuce like you see in the store, but cannot. Any comments? (My
growbeds are very shallow
.maybe 4" 5".)
My tomatos are starting to do well, but I am concerned with lighting. I have
2 450-watt sunagro grow lights.(Yes Adrianna, I already went through the
electrical $ increase and almost had a heart attack. My light bill went from
$120 to almost $400 initially. I did some changes, but am still hovering
around $250-$300 Total. This works out to around $150/mo for my system
alone.) Now with this capacity, I can grow apprx. 30 tomato
plants
.assuming they do well. If I could do as well as Bert, or even
close, (52 tomatos/plant) I could justify this cost. Remember, I'm trying to
grow local tomatos in the winter in Wisconsin. They would be a premium if I
can get them to grow.
I plan on diverting some of the heat of the shed "farm" to the greenhouse in
the winter by forced air. This will give me additional heat (free) for the
greenhouse which is only about 10' from the "farm". I'm also growing tomatos
in the greenhouse. I will be insulating the greenhouse about 1/3 of the way
up during the winter. I will be using the sunagro lights (may have to buy
additional lights
.maybe a 1,000 watt). These put off a lot of heat which
would probably be enough to adequately heat the greenhouse with inclusion of
the forced air heat from the farm. My greenhouse is a hoop house that is 20
x 12.
I currently have tomato cuttings under fluorescents to get them growing.
Would probably convert to growlights if they do well.
Also remember that I live in southern Wisconsin & my goal is to grow
"summertime tomatos in the winter" in Wisconsin. These would sell for apprx.
$3/lb + if I can get it to work.
Any/all input would be appreciated.
Thanks
.Steve
| Message 4
Subject: Re: tomatoes, etc.
From: Jim
Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 04:13:14 -0500
$20 solids separation unit: You can use a standard 55 gal plastic drum
with a clamp on lid in a vertical orientation. Fit a 1" PVC bulkhead
fitting in the side about 3/4 way up the barrel. Add a 90 deg elbow to
direct the flow around the barrel to get some swirl going otherwise
you'll get a fan pattern which will stir up the sediments. Tap the lid
in the center with another bulkhead fitting and just enough drop to get
below the level of your water and clamp the lid on. If everything is
right, you won't need any additional pumps. I've used this in a positive
pressure arrangement with good results.
What do I raise?: I start Channel cats and hybrid blue/green bream (in
separate tanks) using 1000 gal stock tanks, and am in the process of
adding my conventional (in-line) concrete raceways to an outdoor system.
I've been running them in a flow through arrangement and using the
effluent for irrigation, but you end up with a fishy smelling truck
patch that way.
What's a good temp range?: I shoot for 75-85 Deg. in tanks and raceways
to maximize growth. Feeding falls off dramatically at temps <60 or >87
and we stop feeding completely at 50 deg water temp and add well water
at 85. In summer you won't see much trouble until you hit 85 deg water
temp (rare in shaded tanks), but then you start seeing serious stress in
catfish and some in bream.
One other thing to keep in mind: The same problems can crop up in an
overstocked pond as in an overstocked tank. A good rule of thumb is 1
fish/500 gal. in an open pond if you're feeding and not aerating. Get
too much feed on the bottom and it'll go anaerobic on you and poison the
water or you'll have an algae explosion then you'll wake up one morning
to an upside down pond.
You ain't seen dead fish until you've seen 30 acres of dead fish
. Been
there, done that, know better now
Jim Jr.
STEVE SPRING wrote:
>
> Hi Jim,
>
> Thanks again. The idea of the plastic drum for a settling tank is very, very
> interesting. Would this be set up vertically or horizontally? I assume you
> would pump into the bottom and discharge from the top. I find this
> particularly interesting because I already have one set up. I tried to use
> it as a filter and filled it with sand and pea gravel. This configuration
> was TOO successful. It plugged fairly rapidly, within a few days. (This was
> before the massacre though.) BUT, as a settling tank w/o the
> sand/peagravel
.now, that's a different thought. This is a vertical set-up.
> What are your thoughts?
>
> The 65F was just a figure pulled "out of the air". I was only thinking of
> electricity. What would be a reasonable temp for the bluegills? What fish do
> you raise in your system before putting into your pond?
>
> Thanks again
.RSVP
.Steve
| Message 5
Subject: Shade Cloth, Newby Questions ( Help ) needed
From: "Hurst, Steve ( China)"
Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 10:30:08 +0100
Hi again to All,
I have finally got my first S&S style trial node up and running, and have
come
across a few problems that I am hoping someone might be able to help with.
Biggest problem is with shade cloth. Sunlight in the Philipinnes is just to
strong without
shade cloth. Some of the local Plant species I am trying are okay, but most
of my
vegetable "imports" I am trying are just frying.
Despite many hours searching for a supplier, I just cannot find genuine
shade cloth
over here. Set up a temporary affair using fine mesh green nylon netting.
This helps,
but is not the complete answer. This is also quite expensive over here.
Any one have any practical ideas that you have tried that may work ?
I am trying different types of netting, and even considering doubling the
netting up
( maybe as needed )
Other ideas I am looking at are :-
Hessian ( natural Sack cloth )
Plastic White nylon sack cloth.
Opaque plastic sheet
What about paint ? Could painting the Glass roof work ? ( Bit "permanent"
for my liking ).
Would Coloured Corrugated Vinyl Sheet roofing work if it were a particular
color ? I can get any amount of this
in colors from Yellow, Blue, Green, Red, very cheap.
I have raised Tilapia before in ponds, but am a complete newby with the
greenhouse stuff.
Appreciate any help with shade cloth ideas,
Thanks
Steve H ( Philipinnes )
| Message 6
Subject: Re: Tomatos, lettuce
.what next?
From: "Barry Thomas"
Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 11:45:54 +0100
Steve,
> I plan on diverting some of the heat of the shed "farm" to the greenhouse
> in the winter by forced air. This will give me additional heat (free) for
the
> greenhouse which is only about 10' from the "farm".
Lots of possibilities re your current/future lighting but is there any major
reason why you can't move or extend your growbeds into the greenhouse?
Should be much cheaper to supplement daylight (in a greenhouse - the window
of your shed probably doesn't count) thasn to provide all of it and would
also be an opportunity to bring the amount of media in the system up to a
more reasonable level.
How many fluorescents do you have over each bed? Double or single fitting?
What colour light? Do you have the beds "boxed in" with reflective material?
What kind of temps do you have (measured at lettuce height, in middle of
bed)?
BTW, big lights are more efficient in terms of output but it can be
difficult to get even coverage - esp with tall plants like tomatoes. Worth
bearing in mind anyway.
Barry
barrythomas 'at' btinternet.com
PS It was Mike, not Devon, who sent you the "Tough love
." post. I am aware
that you are busy but would suggest that reading and considering it (and all
the other help given in recent days and months by many people) again might
be time well spent.
| Message 7
Subject: FAQ's - fish food sources
From: "gutierrez-lagatta"
Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 07:44:35 -0500
> I'm looking for a source of fish food beside the local pet store.Can
someone
> make a recommendation? Thanks.
Darren, it helps if you tell us where you're located as shipping costs
can be quite high.
This is an issue commonly encountered by newbies. How about people
posting their various sources and we'll include the response in an
FAQ. Ada, are you OK adding this function to your page?
Adriana
Fishless in Birmingham, but with a baby hydro greenhouse up and
running.
| Message 8
Subject: Re: Shade Cloth, Newby Questions ( Help ) needed
From: "gutierrez-lagatta"
Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 07:59:41 -0500
Steve,
Are you growing outdoors or in a covered structure. If you are under
plastic or glass you can spray the exterioir with a diluted whitewash.
This is a common practice in glasshouses and wears off over the course
of the growing season. Otherwise check into nylon window screening.
> Any one have any practical ideas that you have tried that may work ?
> I am trying different types of netting, and even considering
doubling the
> netting up
> What about paint ? Could painting the Glass roof work ? ( Bit
"permanent"
> for my liking ).
Adriana
| Message 9
Subject: Re: Shade Cloth, Newby Questions ( Help ) needed
From: Jim Joyner
Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 08:04:40 -0500
Steve,
I don't think I can help with shade cloth although I'm sure you can get it
on the west coast.
I'd like to revisit plants "frying". About 25 years ago I lived in Guam. I
didn't have green houses but had friends who did -- with hydroponics. They
used greenhouses because of the large amount of rain (128 inches); didn't
what solutions diluted. But with fish I don't know why you'd want a green
house. The green houses I remember did use fans, but I don't remember
plants ever getting to much heat.
I'm pretty sure there are experimental aquaponics sites in the Philippines.
You might want to track someone down in there to see what they have done. I
can't find now but there's a link here to a site with work done in the
Virgin Islands.
Good luck,
Jim
At 10:30 AM 5/28/01 +0100, you wrote:
>Hi again to All,
> I have finally got my first S&S style trial node up and running, and have
>come
>across a few problems that I am hoping someone might be able to help with.
>
>Biggest problem is with shade cloth. Sunlight in the Philipinnes is just to
>strong without
>shade cloth. Some of the local Plant species I am trying are okay, but most
>of my
>vegetable "imports" I am trying are just frying.
>Despite many hours searching for a supplier, I just cannot find genuine
>shade cloth
>over here. Set up a temporary affair using fine mesh green nylon netting.
>This helps,
>but is not the complete answer. This is also quite expensive over here.
>
>Any one have any practical ideas that you have tried that may work ?
>I am trying different types of netting, and even considering doubling the
>netting up
>( maybe as needed )
>Other ideas I am looking at are :-
>Hessian ( natural Sack cloth )
>Plastic White nylon sack cloth.
>Opaque plastic sheet
>What about paint ? Could painting the Glass roof work ? ( Bit "permanent"
>for my liking ).
>
>Would Coloured Corrugated Vinyl Sheet roofing work if it were a particular
>color ? I can get any amount of this
>in colors from Yellow, Blue, Green, Red, very cheap.
>
>I have raised Tilapia before in ponds, but am a complete newby with the
>greenhouse stuff.
>
>
>Appreciate any help with shade cloth ideas,
> Thanks
>Steve H ( Philipinnes )
>
>
| Message 10
Subject: Re: Hi All
From: "Chris G"
Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 09:36:36 -0400
Thanks Ada,
I will write up a bio and add a link on my website and send it to you.
>From: "Ada Erickson"
>
>Welcome;
>
>Funny you should ask. I too am a new person, and I was flabbergasted with
>the openness and community spirit on this board, so I am working with
>others
>to immortalize some of the information that is shared here.
>
>So what you and I need is "coming soon"
>
>There is an Intro page that is in it's first few days. It is at
>www.primadonnasrevenge.com/aquaponics/ so you can get to know a few people
>and their areas of expertise.
>
>Please send me your bio.
>
>Thanks
>
>Ada
>
| Message 11
Subject: Re: Shade Cloth, Newby Questions ( Help ) needed
From: "TGTX"
Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 08:45:41 -0500
Steve, you can spray or paint on a white lime solution right onto the glass,
which will reflect much of the sunlight. Later on in the year, if you need
to, in the winter, you just hose it off.
Also, have you seen those bamboo window shades in which the wood is like a
"matchstick"? In fact, they are called "matchstick" blinds around here.
Well, around here you can find a similar blind made of white vinyl
"matchsticks", actually small tubes, instead of wood. It can be draped
across the glazing, or hung inside the roof near the glazing, or hung
vertically in small greenhouse spaces to shade or reduce the amount of
direct, strong sunlight on the plants.
Hope that helps.
Ted
> Biggest problem is with shade cloth. Sunlight in the Philipinnes is just
to
> strong without
> shade cloth. Some of the local Plant species I am trying are okay, but
most
> of my
> vegetable "imports" I am trying are just frying.
| Message 12
Subject: Re: Tough Love for Steve
From: "Devon Williams"
Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 09:53:18 -0400
Steve,
Check out who sent you something before you respond
.I don't believe I
voiced any "opinions" in my last posting
.I don't recall who posted the
"tough love" response, but it wasn't me. I don't think I've been anything
but positively supportive for you.
Devon
>From: "STEVE SPRING"
>Reply-To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
>To:
>Subject: Re: Tough Love for Steve
>Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 23:41:21 -0500
>
>Hi Devon,
>
>We all have our opinions.
>
>I'm a long way from being perfect, but I am what I am. I do appreciate your
>input. I accept criticism as well as praise.
>
>As far as your current environment. Usually, we choose to be where we are.
>I, also, spent almost 15 years in the jungles of SE Asia. I have also seen
>very similar situations to that boy spearing 4 muddy-tasting Tilapia
.&
>much worse.
>
>If I offended you, I apologize. (Or am I not supposed to do that now?)
>
>Take care
Steve :)
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From:
>To:
>Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2001 4:54 AM
>Subject: OT: Tough Love for Steve
>
>
>STEVE SPRING wrote:
> >
> > Hi Devon,
> >
> > I sometimes feel like the "whipping boy"!
> >
> > I, in no way, meant to belittle your project.
> >
> > I'm currently redoing my entire system as well. I finally got those
>"damned" tomatos to grow and now they are taking over everything.
>
>
>
>Hi Steve!!
>
>Im sorry mate, but I have to say something here
. I cant hold it
>back.>
>I too used to be called "socially insensitive" in my field, but simply
>because I used to keep young engineers out of whorehouses, bars, drugs,
>give them alternatives
. (cook up a good dinner myself for 30 guys
,
>or go on a weekend rail trip in the country!!)to the seedy underworld of
>drugs and alchohol while we were working on projects all over the
>world
. so I do know how it is working 14 hr shifts I can relate
and
>that my friend for 3-4 months at a time in many a time HOSTILE
>environments
. dig working with a gas mask on your hip
.or having a
>guy with a submachine gun personally guard your every move, or being
>sprayed with a volley of bullets at yet another site ??
>
>My wife has too just opted to leave North American ER (Emergency Room)
>nursing to come back here with me so I know how "wound up" one gets in
>the weird and wacky world of your high stress job but hey man
.like I
>had to tell her sometimes after a long especially hard night
. "I am
>NOT your enemy, calm down!!"
>
>Now what has gotten me ticked off?? WEll one of the things I nearly sent
>a guy home about is his constant swearing over things
try building a
>factory in monsoon rains where 3 times you have to pump out electrical
>channels by hand like a paddy field and then have guys swearing about
>how bad things are
.tensions run so high it is like MUTINY.>
>Please please please Steve
. differentiate between tomatoes, Mike Sipe,
>tilapia and US as a group.>
>Your damning of the tomatoes has really gotten my gall
like I said to
>that young green engineer back then
.at the risk of sending him home,
>"start BLESSING something around here and you may notice a
>difference
.!!" He was stunned
.>
>So as a joke guys started to insert the word "blessed" in place of every
>swear word.>'What a blessed piece of steel that just fell on my toe
.'
>'what a blessed rainy day it is
.we get to pump the channels again
.'
>'What a blessed meal we just had with chopsticks
.at least we were able
>to sit for once for an hour at lunch'
. etc
>This began to turn a mood of mutiny around to a feeling of humour and
>engagement
.because who wants to touch something damned??
>
>Please do not take out your emotions on the plants, people or the fish
>or even the group
. remember there is a feel or tone to every
>newsgroup, and instead of apologising and being sorry for everything,
>how about just NOT saying these offensive things here?? It is my humble
>opinion that this group was formed to SEEK solutions, and not for folks
>who want to just "cuss" out their frustration. Long before you I have
>seen people networking in this list on the hour almost in rapid flurries
>of posts from folks trying to save not a few hundred, but thousands of
>fish,
so BELIEVE when people say U haven't seen or been there till you
>kill a few thousand fish!
>A lot of folks have done MUCH worse than you man
.and have come back to
>do much better
. and have used this list to constructively SOLVE, HELP,
>and DOCUMENT as a lasting POSITIVE contribution, a record of WHAT NOT TO
>DO!! But even that needs to be done in a way that will inspire the
>newbies, not discourage them! One farm I visited recently overseas moved
>in the space of 15 mins from viable farm one minute to a loss of 35'000
>almost grown out fish. This group then moved in solidarity in a similar
>occasion to help one person dispose of the carcasses, and yes man did
>that guy make it big in the biogas business!! He used a bacterial
>solution
(also suggested from this humble group
.) to RAPIDLY
>decompose his fish!
>
>
>
>I find your cursing of things offensive, and not because of my belief
>systems, but because I think most of us are on this group are here to
>make BLESSED good lettuce, BLESSED good fish, (even if they originated
>with Mike Sipe!! ) and make BLESSED good at whatever we put our hand to.
>What I trying to say is
.MOVE ON man
. dont damn
.BLESS!!
>I am sure that many folks feel like I do on this
anything damned
>deserves a valued position in my dustbin, outside BURNED, or on the
>compost!!
>
>If U think everything U do is so poor then get out of it Steve!If you
>approach ornamental fish growing with the same attitude then you will
>again be seeking scapegoats
. and who will it be then?? In all your
>dealings with fish, lettuce, your lack of sleep, your aquaponic system,
>your growbeds, and all the variables thereof, there is only ONE
>CONSTANT, and that is YOU!! (I say all this in love my friend! - Tough
>love
) Being consequent means taking responsibility and being
>accountable for our own actions and inactions.>
>Think about it.>
>PS. Any day U think your endeavours are so poor, I extend a invitation
>to you here to see a poor boy heading home after spending a whole day
>spearing a whole string of muddy tasting 4 inch tilapia, with a bunch of
>scraggly greens to put in his Mothers hands, and with a few sticks of
>sugarcane to wash it down
. and I would ask you to say "Big catch
>mon!! " to him and see the smile that would spread across his face
>slowly but surely
. radiating ear to ear
and then you know I THINK
>your attempts would seem slowly not too bad after all
. the glass is
>either half empty or its half full,
its all relative
its all
>relative mon.>
>
>
>
> >
>
>
| Message 13
Subject: Growbed questions for Bert McLaughlin was: Introduction
From: Bill Patrick
Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 10:02:49 -0400
> Any more questions please E-mail me bertmcl 'at' aol.com or look at VIRGINIA FISH
> FARMERS ASSOCIATION http://www.vffa.ova.net/project/
Bert,
Nice web page, thanks for sharing the details of your project with us.
I have two questions about your grow beds. What is the white material
your expert grow bed fabricator is crawling on in the top photo on this
page?
http://www.vffa.ova.net/project/bedbuild.htm
And is the only support for your beds the concrete blocks in the
corners? Or is there something more we can't see in the photos'?
Thanks,
Bill
| Message 14
Subject: Re: Tomatos, lettuce
.what next?
From: "TGTX"
Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 09:01:48 -0500
> Any/all input would be appreciated.
>
> Thanks
.Steve
Well, Steve, I know you spent some bucks re-roofing this shed already, but
if your intention was and still is to grow plants in this shed, and the
lighting costs are hurtin' you, then why not consider at least a few panels
of double wall polycarbonate (Lexan, etc.) wherever you can AFFORD to place
it, on the south wall and roof, and paint the north wall and ceiling white
to reflect as much light back to the plants as possible? Maybe even put
white greenhouse groundcloth down on the floor, or bring in bright white
marble road fill, or paint the slab white
.every little bit can help, but
the costs of some approaches are more attractive than others
and this is
starting to sound a bit rich for my blood, but if you are in it for the long
haul, and you are absolutely fixed on using this shed to grow your plants,
then bringing in the maximum amount of natural light into this shed and
reflecting it onto the plants seems the answer to your lighting cost
woes
it's always a trade off with heat and light and insulation and
ventilation
Funny, but it's either too little or too much eh? Maybe Steve in the
Phillipines can pipe some of ole' Sol to the Cheddar Cheese State, and Steve
in Wisconsin can send some cool air in the opposite direction
Or not.
Ted
| Message 15
Subject: Re: Growbed questions for Bert McLaughlin was: Introduction
From: "TGTX"
Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 09:17:45 -0500
Bill, if I was to guess, I'd say it was 15 mil poly (which is white,
translucent, and available from Raven Plastics), or possibly hyphalon
but
it doesn't extend up over the wood frame, so I guess I'm stumped. Maybe it
is just plywood painted white
.hard to say
.Surely it isn't RFP? That
stuff is expensive!
Ted
> I have two questions about your grow beds. What is the white material
> your expert grow bed fabricator is crawling on in the top photo on this
> page?
| Message 16
Subject: Re: Growbed questions for Bert McLaughlin was: Introduction
From: "TGTX"
Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 09:19:34 -0500
> is just plywood painted white
.hard to say
.Surely it isn't RFP? That
> stuff is expensive!
Meant to type "FRP".
Ted
| Message 17
Subject: Re: another system update/ a mention of growth
From: fred kious
Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 20:00:09 -0700
darren
try feed stores some carry fish food in sacks
fred kious
Darren Pearce wrote:
> Please pardon Me, in My excitement I neglected to mention how happy We are
> with the growth that We're seeing.
> We've seen head lettuce go from 3-4 leaf plantlets to 8" wide plants with
> nearly 2" heads(with roots already emerging from the bottoms of the pots), a
> jalapeno type pepper out-pace it's soil borne counterparts by 50% or more, a
> teeny 3" cherry tomato seedling explode to almost 1' tall and 18" wide and you
> know
the cantaloupe (also out-pacing it's counterpart)
.LOL
>
> Note: The PH of the system slowly drops into the high 5's every few days and
> I've been using worm casting tea to boost it back into low 6's.
> I've also started a micro crop of barley to use against a potential algae
> problem.I planted a 10" pot last week and already have a herd of 3-4 inch
> blades.
>
> I'm looking for a source of fish food beside the local pet store.Can someone
> make a recommendation? Thanks.
>
> Darren
| Message 18
Subject: Re: Growbed questions for Bert McLaughlin was: Introduction
From: Bill Patrick
Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 11:23:14 -0400
Ted,
Looks like about the simplest grow bed design, along the same lines I've
been thinking, would cost me $35.29 (current Home Depot prices) per box
not including glue/screws and liner. I'm interested to hear if they bow
any over time, while just being supported at each corner. By the way
what is FRP?
Bill
TGTX wrote:
>
> > is just plywood painted white
.hard to say
.Surely it isn't RFP? That
> > stuff is expensive!
>
> Meant to type "FRP".
>
> Ted
| Message 19
Subject: Re: Tough Love for Steve
./Reminder for Bookmarks.
From: dreadlox 'at' cwjamaica.com
Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 10:30:37 -0700
Hi Steve!
Mike here. It is I who wrote the mail to you, not Devon. Just goes to
show you how important it is to sign your name. I did not set out to
humiliate or belittle, just for the record, sometimes I just try that
folks can see a different perspective.
I think that could be filed under a new subtitle in our bookmarks,
namely
maintaining a healthy outlook in Aquaponics
In that case, slaps on the back and a "Fight on, mate!!" to you.
No apologies necessary.
And hey, Steve
. Ive still not recieved your bookmark list
. :> being
you want to explore all the gurus sites of perusal
. :>
Please everyone
. send me those ideas
. and thanks to those that
HAVE
good stuff
Blessings
Mike,
JAMAICA.
STEVE SPRING wrote:
>
> Hi Devon,
>
> We all have our opinions.
>
| Message 20
Subject: Re: Shade Cloth, Newby Questions ( Help ) needed
From: fishmanbruce 'at' webtv.net (Bruce Schreiber)
Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 10:35:00 -0500 (CDT)
Steve H. Painting the glass white is a common method used in
greenhouses in the southern US and so is using white fiberglass roofing
.You want bright indirect light so your plants don't burn up .
And that will take care of your problem
In your area don't relie on the lime white wash because it washes off.
Also you can use what we call snow fencing up here but it would be
used as a wind barrier on the cost to keep the sand in place in your
area.Its fencing that has wooden slats in it about 4ft high the slats
are 1/4in.by 1 1/4in. by 4ft. with a 2in. gap between and the fence
comes in big rolls. or you can weave your own no sweat
Bruce
| Message 21
Subject: Re: Shade Cloth, Newby Questions ( Help ) needed
From: kris book
Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 09:57:44 -0600
Steve,
I have seen greenhouses in Arizona that are kept at 80 degrees when
outside temps are over 110 degrees. I suggest you look into upgrading
your swamp cooler. Before I learned to make my own swamp coolers, I put
four poles in the ground and attached my shade cloth to the posts. That
way the hot shade cloth wasn't touching the greenhouse. I am sure that
you can get shade cloth through the Internet. Try hydro-gardens.com. I
remember that there was quite a bit of discussion on shade cloth here
last year. I believe the general consensus was that white 50% shade cloth
was best.
kris
_________
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
| Message 22
Subject: Re: Shade Cloth, Newby Questions ( Help ) needed
From: marc 'at' aculink.net
Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 10:00:40 -0600
Does the "fine mesh green nylon netting" have small enough
mesh where you can paint it and the meshes will hold the
paint???
Nameth, Marc (USA)
"Hurst, Steve ( China)" wrote:
>
.> Biggest problem is with shade cloth. Sunlight in the
Philipinnes is just to
> strong without shade cloth
Despite many hours searching for a supplier, I just cannot
find genuine
> shade cloth over here. Set up a temporary affair using fine mesh green nylon netting.
What about paint ? Could painting the Glass roof work ?
| Message 23
Subject: Re: Tomatos, lettuce
.what next?
From: fishmanbruce 'at' webtv.net (Bruce Schreiber)
Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 11:04:46 -0500 (CDT)
Steve I think that your green house needs to be smack up beside
your farm to conserve heat in the winter with a walk through door
connecting them .The big over grown evergreens need to be removed from
between them to do this but the heat savings that you gain by moving the
green house to abut the farm will be substantial in the winter and go a
long way to make it cost effective and as I mentioned in the past add
more BIG windows .Or have you considered growing mushrooms Aquaponicly
in a hanging vertical tube system?
I am not joking! Its very feasible and profitable!
Bruce
| Message 24
Subject: Re: Shade Cloth, Newby Questions ( Help ) needed
From: marc 'at' aculink.net
Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 10:11:28 -0600
To piggy back on kris's post - it's quite common to use a
"wet wall" on the north side around here. Guess it would be
the south wall in the southern hemisphere.
It can be used as and insulated wall during winter months.
Make it as large as you want. They are basically a large
swamp cooler pad that the greenhouse blowers pull or push
air through. Don't know if the P.I. humidity will allow one
of these to work though.
Marc
kris book wrote:
>
> Steve,
>
> I have seen greenhouses in Arizona that are kept at 80 degrees when
> outside temps are over 110 degrees. I suggest you look into upgrading
> your swamp cooler. Before I learned to make my own swamp coolers,.
| Message 25
Subject: Re: Tomatos, lettuce
.what next?
From: marc 'at' aculink.net
Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 10:15:31 -0600
Interesting
. We've considered fungi but what we've read
indicates there seems to be a lot of time, effort and cost
spent on sterilization in fungi farms so we've passed.
How would this be addressed in a Aquaponics system? Would it
be necessary if a careful selection of fungi were selected??
Are some fungi less tolerant of average sterilization than
others? etc. etc.
Marc
.Or have you considered growing mushrooms Aquaponicly
> in a hanging vertical tube system?
> I am not joking! Its very feasible and profitable!
> Bruce
| Message 26
Subject: Re: TOP TEN FOODS, was: another system update
From: fishmanbruce 'at' webtv.net (Bruce Schreiber)
Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 11:21:54 -0500 (CDT)
Ted Apricots should grow well in Texas after all they grow in Tucson
,Phoenix Az and all over Mexico and I have personally seen them at 30
feet tall and covered with fruit I picked them from my yards out there
for 20 years The only problem with them is that they flower so early
and some times the young fruit get caught with a late frost like
Almonds.
Bruce
| Message 27
Subject: Affordable Source of Beds
From: "Stan Clayton"
Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 09:26:38 -0700
Lot's of good stuff lately, folks. Keep up the good work! ;)
I have my pumps and such together and am looking for an affordable source
for the (preferably) 4'x1'x8' beds. The only place on the internet I can
find them wants $1300 each
. ouch!
Homer Depot carries a somewhat irregularly shaped black plastic yard pond
for $99 that I could make work fine, but the regular lines of a rectangle
appeal to the engineer in me
. ;) I'd sure appreaciate any specific
sources y'all could share with me.
Thanks! Stan
| Message 28
Subject: Re: Affordable Source of Beds
From: fishmanbruce 'at' webtv.net (Bruce Schreiber)
Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 11:38:46 -0500 (CDT)
Stan Make your own beds out of plywood and either line them with
plastic or paint them with a 2 part epoxy paint or both works good and
with the money that you save you can send me on vacation.
Bruce
| Message 29
Subject: Re: Affordable Source of Beds
From: Bill Patrick
Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 13:05:10 -0400
Stan,
Here's what Aquatic Ecosystems has
http://www.aquaticeco.com/aquatic1v1/dir2.icl?secid=26&subsecid=135&orderidentifier=ID97801432494372547A
I bought my tank from them, seem to be nice people, this was my only
experience with them. But I'm with Bruce and I think I'm going to build
plywood boxes like Bert McLaughlin's see his 'at'
http://www.vffa.ova.net/project/growbeds.htm
As I previously posted they will cost me $35.29 (current Homer Depot
prices) per box
not including glue/screws and liner.
Bill Patrick
Bruce Schreiber wrote:
>
> Stan Make your own beds out of plywood and either line them with
> plastic or paint them with a 2 part epoxy paint or both works good and
> with the money that you save you can send me on vacation.
> Bruce
| Message 30
Subject: Pond Aerator Solutions
From: dreadlox 'at' cwjamaica.com
Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 12:09:59 -0700
Does anyone use or know or a microhydro or wind-driven wind aeration
solution that they can recommend? Offlist responses welcome if not
applicable. I also welcome commercial plugs (on this topic of
course
.:) ). I am interested in knowing also if anyone knows of
systems using buffer tanks for air storage, for early morning use
.when
dissolved oxygen is lowest.
Thanks,
Kind Regards
Mike
JAMAICA.
| Message 31
Subject: RE: Pond Aerator Solutions
From: "billevans"
Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 10:06:14 -0700
I did visit a fish farm over inthe coachella valley of CA
. For aerating
his dozen tanks( 50' round by 8feet deep) he used a sort of paddlewheel
design connected to electric motor to beat up the surface of tthe water.
These were covered by small awnings to contain the spray.
bille
.Subject: Pond Aerator Solutions
Does anyone use or know or a microhydro or wind-driven wind aeration
solution that they can recommend?
JAMAICA.
| Message 32
Subject: Re: Affordable Source of Beds
From: "Laura Dalton"
Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 12:20:26 -0500
Stan:
Dripworks 1-800-522-3747 sells supplies for drip & spray irrigation, plus
poly and EPDM rubber pond liners, in 20 - 60 mil thickness. Their 40 mil
poly liner has an expected life of 20 -25 years, so apparently it's tough
stuff. They're a great source for all fittings, valve and manifold devices,
misters and emitters.
Laura
Subject: Affordable Source of Beds
> Lot's of good stuff lately, folks. Keep up the good work! ;)
>
> I have my pumps and such together and am looking for an affordable source
> for the (preferably) 4'x1'x8' beds. The only place on the internet I can
> find them wants $1300 each
. ouch!
>
> Homer Depot carries a somewhat irregularly shaped black plastic yard pond
> for $99 that I could make work fine, but the regular lines of a rectangle
> appeal to the engineer in me
. ;) I'd sure appreaciate any specific
> sources y'all could share with me.
>
> Thanks! Stan
>
| Message 33
Subject: Re: Pond Aerator Solutions
From: fishmanbruce 'at' webtv.net (Bruce Schreiber)
Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 12:29:55 -0500 (CDT)
Mike Water receives oxygen by surface contact movement at the pond or
tank surface and never from aeration bubbles the air bubblier just acts
as a pump to move water around the system up to the surface for air
exchange so if you agitate the surface in any way you are doing good
Try putting a venturi in line at the pump exhaust into the tank or
construct a riffle shoot that the water runs over for a distance before
dropping back into the fish tank this also significantly adds surface
area to the tank/pond and that is a good thing it looks like a gold
prospectors sluice that the water riffles over and that does work so do
both at once make it out of wood
Bruce
| Message 34
Subject: Re: Affordable Source of Beds
From: "TGTX"
Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 12:38:39 -0500
I used 12 mil poly lined plywood growbeds supported by uber strong steel C
perlin welded frames on cinder blocks. I had eighteen grow beds. They were
9 inches deep, 7 feet wide, and 30 feet long. I would not recommend anything
less than 12 mil for the bed liners. I also would not recommend using 2
lays of 6 mil, but if you must, then try it
.my preference. I think you
may have problems with gravel digging in a 6 mil liner, then dig its way
thru several layers. In the future, I will use 15 mil. "white" poly,
instead of the 12 mil black poly that I used in the last system. I would not
recommend going as thick as 20 mil in the grow beds because it becomes
harder to tuck in the corners, if you see what I mean. I used the 20 mil
poly in the fish tanks which were dug into the ground, framed with plywood,
with a soft sand bottom. 30 mil was very difficult to work with
.20 mil is
much better for that purpose.
My opinion.
Ted
> As I previously posted they will cost me $35.29 (current Homer Depot
> prices) per box
> not including glue/screws and liner.
>
> Bill Patrick
| Message 35
Subject: Re: Affordable Source of Beds
From: "Nick"
Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 10:59:43 -0700
http://www.dripworksusa.com/
----- Original Message -----
From: "Laura Dalton"
To:
Sent: Monday, May 28, 2001 10:20 AM
Subject: Re: Affordable Source of Beds
> Stan:
> Dripworks 1-800-522-3747 sells supplies for drip & spray irrigation, plus
> poly and EPDM rubber pond liners, in 20 - 60 mil thickness. Their 40 mil
> poly liner has an expected life of 20 -25 years, so apparently it's tough
> stuff. They're a great source for all fittings, valve and manifold
devices,
> misters and emitters.
> Laura
>
>
> Subject: Affordable Source of Beds
>
>
> > Lot's of good stuff lately, folks. Keep up the good work! ;)
> >
> > I have my pumps and such together and am looking for an affordable
source
> > for the (preferably) 4'x1'x8' beds. The only place on the internet I
can
> > find them wants $1300 each
. ouch!
> >
> > Homer Depot carries a somewhat irregularly shaped black plastic yard
pond
> > for $99 that I could make work fine, but the regular lines of a
rectangle
> > appeal to the engineer in me
. ;) I'd sure appreaciate any specific
> > sources y'all could share with me.
> >
> > Thanks! Stan
> >
>
| Message 36
Subject: Re: Tomatos, lettuce
.what next?
From: fishmanbruce 'at' webtv.net (Bruce Schreiber)
Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 13:03:11 -0500 (CDT)
Marc I am trying to find the link that had the best information on
hydroponic mushrooms but i am having trouble I know it was on Bob
saffells news letter he's also the one that turned me onto this list so
i owe him if you know i mean try him at.
bsaffell 'at' mayhill.com Bruce
| Message 37
Subject: Re: Pond Aerator Solutions
From: "Arlos"
Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 11:26:47 -0700
Bruce,
Too add a bit of info on your post. Adding an eductor manifold on the
effluent side of the pump would utilize the fluid stream to draw ambient air
through the venturi and gain a passive method of aeration. The eductor
manifold could be adjusted to draw between 5-15 scfm 'at' 6gpm on a 3/4"
line. (or sized according to system needs)
One question to the group. Have you held a conference yet?.
Cheers,
Arlos
Blue Lotus Aquatics
Aptos, California
Newbee to the group but long time water processing engineer (mechanical)
-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Schreiber
To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
Date: Monday, May 28, 2001 10:30 AM
Subject: Re: Pond Aerator Solutions
Mike Water receives oxygen by surface contact movement at the pond or
tank surface and never from aeration bubbles the air bubblier just acts
as a pump to move water around the system up to the surface for air
exchange so if you agitate the surface in any way you are doing good
Try putting a venturi in line at the pump exhaust into the tank or
construct a riffle shoot that the water runs over for a distance before
dropping back into the fish tank this also significantly adds surface
area to the tank/pond and that is a good thing it looks like a gold
prospectors sluice that the water riffles over and that does work so do
both at once make it out of wood
Bruce
| Message 38
Subject: Re: Growbed questions for Bert McLaughlin was: Introduction
From: Bertmcl 'at' aol.com
Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 15:46:56 EDT
Bill, that is 1" insulation board, which one on my "cooperators" thought was
necessary. After install 4 of them I gave up, cuased problems with the shower
drain fitting, as well as time trimming to fit. I ran a 2"x4" x4' on edge
accross the bed at the middle point, fastened it into a 2"x2"x4' screwed
through the bed before caulking edges and adding liner.
Any more ?? please let me know.
Bert
| Message 39
Subject: Re: Affordable Source of Beds
From: Bertmcl 'at' aol.com
Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 15:59:44 EDT
Stan, I would use a 2"x12"x12' salt treated lumber. cut the board exactly 8'
long (use for side) then cut the leftover piece 45" (use for end), at Home
Depot this is cheaper that buying 8' lumber ;and a sheet of 3/4" x 4' x 8'
salt treated plywood for the bottom.
any more questions you may feel free to E-mail off list.
Bert
| Message 40
Subject: Re: Affordable Source of Beds
From: Jim
Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 16:20:40 -0500
Something I've used to build tanks and beds is fiber reinforced cement
board (WonderBoard) intended for lining shower stalls and flooring
bathrooms. Frame the sides with treated 2x12 timbers and add a 3/4"
plywood floor and line with the WonderBoard. All this can be supported
on dry stacked cinderblocks. Caulk the joints with food grade RTV
silicon sealer. Not the cheapest solution, but under a 100 bucks
It will outlast you and you won't have to worry about tearing the
bottom when you dress your gravel.
Jim Jr.
Stan Clayton wrote:
>
> Lot's of good stuff lately, folks. Keep up the good work! ;)
>
> I have my pumps and such together and am looking for an affordable source
> for the (preferably) 4'x1'x8' beds. The only place on the internet I can
> find them wants $1300 each
. ouch!
>
> Homer Depot carries a somewhat irregularly shaped black plastic yard pond
> for $99 that I could make work fine, but the regular lines of a rectangle
> appeal to the engineer in me
. ;) I'd sure appreaciate any specific
> sources y'all could share with me.
>
> Thanks! Stan
| Message 41
Subject: Re: Shade Cloth, Newby Questions ( Help ) needed
From: "gutierrez-lagatta"
Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 16:34:35 -0500
Kris and Steve,
Swampo coolers work best in low humidity environments such as Arizona.
In muggy humid tropical environments you can get about a 5-7 degree
drop in temperature from them. One other consideration regarding
evaporative coolers. My growing neighbor has a 6,000 sq ft greenhouse
with an evaporative cooler. She says it uses about 400 gallons of
water every 2 hours. Ouch! I prefer to apply all methods of passive
cooling (shadecloth, ridege and side vents, etc.) before getting more
aggresive.
> I have seen greenhouses in Arizona that are kept at 80 degrees when
> outside temps are over 110 degrees. I suggest you look into
upgrading
> your swamp cooler. Before I learned to make my own swamp coolers, I
put
> four poles in the ground and attached my shade cloth to the posts. >
Adriana
| Message 42
Subject: Re: TOP TEN FOODS, was: another system update
From: "TGTX"
Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 16:36:21 -0500
> Ted Apricots should grow well in Texas after all they grow in Tucson
> ,Phoenix Az and all over Mexico and I have personally seen them at 30
> feet tall and covered with fruit I picked them from my yards out there
> for 20 years The only problem with them is that they flower so early
> and some times the young fruit get caught with a late frost like
> Almonds.
> Bruce
Yes, Bruce I should say that no varieties I know of actually fruit reliably
every year down here in South/Central Texas. I think this is due to number
of freezing hours per year requirements of the apricot varieties, like
peaches need so many hours, etc
.or I could have it 180 degrees wrong and
it is as you say, that is, the cold snaps that often creep up on us here in
Texas after the blossoms have
.uh, blossomed.
Thanks for the input. Anyway, I love apricots, so if anyone has a variety
to recommend that is reliable for South/Central Texas, please let me know.
I don't really think there are any out there
.but one is always happily
suprised to find the most unusual things out there
Ted
| Message 43
Subject: Re: another system update
From: Katie Rezendes
Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 19:15:19 -0400
Hey Darren,
Sounds like your off to a fun and rewarding start your self, best of
luck to you too.
Kevin,
Portsmouth, RI
Darren Pearce wrote:
>
> Wow! 2 weeks has passed since our first module came online and things are
> going great!
> The unit consist of (so far) a 45 gallon aquarium, a 4'x4' plastic lined table
> and (16) individual 6" pots.Each pot is filled with 1" lava rock and is
> continuously top-fed using open 1/4" line.A single hagen 802 aquarium pump
> provides enough water flow for 2 such tables.50 common feeder goldfish ranging
> from 5" to 1" do what goldfish do best and appear happy (ok, hungry) and
> healthy.
> The inductees include head lettuces, leaf lettuces, basil, a couple of pepper
> vars and a couple of tomatoes as well.My personal favorite (drum roll
> please)
. a cantaloupe that seems to be doing quite well.Time will tell I
> suppose.
> Sometime in the near future, We'll be hanging a 4" irrigation tube module off
> of the north wall.This move will almost surely require another pump.A 50
> gallon poly barrel stands as a backup fish tank if required.
>
> Kevin
> I'm sure the unexpected push is unsettling, but best of luck in the endeavor.I
> can't help but think that market farming using this methodology would be a
> vastly rewarding experience.
>
> Darren
| Message 44
Subject: Fish Problem
From: Katie Rezendes
Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 19:28:15 -0400
Hi All,
Two days ago I came home from work to find one of my tomato plants had
fallen on my float valve switch and it got stuck in the open position.
My fish tank was pump almost dry, and the tilapia were still flapping in
about 1/2" of water. Two of the fish had a sort of discoloration on
their heads. The next day, there seems to be some type of white fuzz
growing on the wound. Other then that they seem to be fine, eating well
and swimming fine also. Should I be concerned.
Kevin
Portsmouth, RI
| Message 45
Subject: Re: Growbed questions for Bert McLaughlin was: Introduction
From: "TGTX"
Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 17:55:03 -0500
> Ted,
> Looks like about the simplest grow bed design, along the same lines I've
> been thinking, would cost me $35.29 (current Home Depot prices) per box
> not including glue/screws and liner. I'm interested to hear if they bow
> any over time, while just being supported at each corner. By the way
> what is FRP?
> Bill
Is "per box" a 4' X 8' x 1' deep box? or only 6" deep? I don't think I saw
any sag in the 4X8X1 beds that I built back in 95-96
.and they were truely
abused and abandonded by others
.I saw a bit of pealing of the epoxy paint,
about a year or 2 later, due to the uncontrolled heat of the greenhouse
during the abuse and abandonment stuff that went on
but the box held the
weight A.O.K. it seems
Bow and sag depends on span and gravel depth (weight per sq.ft). Come on,
Bill you're the rocket scientist, you know this force and gravity stuff for
cryin' out loud ! ;-).
Some of this commentary related to weight and mass and size
.I am saving
for jokes at the SGVGA talk
gotta save some of this material for comic
relief, you know.
FRP is that white plastic crinkly textured stuff you see lined on the walls
in service station bathrooms
.fiber reinforced plastic sheeting
.just
about indestructible, but pricey
ouch!
I made my salad greens
processing table top out of it
Clean as a whistle
.beautiful stuff, for
HACCP plans in fish and salad processing rooms, I use this
spare no
expense in the food processing rooms
.but it should be reserved for a
higher purpose than lining a grow bed with, IMHO
and I do have a few of
those.
Ted
| Message 46
Subject: Re: Fish Problem
From: "TGTX"
Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 18:04:18 -0500
Howdy Katie, or Kevin, or K. from Rhode Island.
You might be concerned that you have a strain of semi-sentient tomato vines
that will rise up one day and demand that you feed it, ala Little Shop of
Horrors, if it is now reaching over and switching off your pumps
.this is
Outer Limits material here, man
Anyway
.White fuzz is probably
Saprolegnia, an opportunistic fungi indicating that physical stress to the
fish, plus perhaps some high organic matter content is present. Saprolegnia
is not an Italian entree
it finds it's way to little scrapes and bruises
that the fish might experience
you might see a few outbreaks of it from
time to time, but the majority of fish should be way free of it if things
are ginnin' O.K
Just keep that tank full of clean, clear, water and
perhaps reduce feed a bit as you watch water clarity
is your grow bed
well seasoned, well aerated, big enough to handle the feed load, and
biologically "mature"? These are terms of art
sorry you guys
.this is
like Zen and the Art of Aquaponics Maintenance
Tedster.
> their heads. The next day, there seems to be some type of white fuzz
> growing on the wound. Other then that they seem to be fine, eating well
> and swimming fine also. Should I be concerned.
> Kevin
> Portsmouth, RI
| Message 47
Subject: Re: TOP TEN FOODS, was: another system update
From: fishmanbruce 'at' webtv.net (Bruce Schreiber)
Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 19:01:36 -0500 (CDT)
Ted, yes I know I'm right. I'm a nursery man by training and it's
because the apricots flower so early with a warm spell. In Patagonia,
AZ
the town I lived in, every fruit tree in the place would bloom out
some years setting fruit and bang we'd get a few days of a cold snap and
loose most of the crops of apricots. Now if you want apricots every
year, I have a guaranteed way for it to work. You must espoliate the
apricot tree to the south, east, or west side of the house covering the
whole wall. Just like it was a grape vine with the tree no wider than
two feet. Now call me crazy, but boy does this work. If you can keep
up with the trimming. The fruit sets so close to the house that the
frost can't get the buds and bingo
end of problem.
Bruce
| Message 48
Subject: apricots
From: "gutierrez-lagatta"
Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 20:44:09 -0500
Bruce,
Do you mean "espallier"?
> year, I have a guaranteed way for it to work. You must espoliate
the
> apricot tree to the south, east, or west side of the house covering
the
> whole wall.
Adriana
| Message 49
Subject: RE: TOP TEN FOODS, was: another system update
From: "Richard & Faye"
Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 22:05:13 -0500
Ted,
You might try Stark Brothers Nursey out of Louisanna, MO. They claim to
have apricot trees that will grow in Texas.
www.mySEASONS.com
Richard Salmons
> -----Original Message-----
> From: aquaponics-request 'at' townsqr.com
> [mailto:aquaponics-request 'at' townsqr.com]On Behalf Of TGTX
> Sent: Monday, May 28, 2001 4:36 PM
> To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
> Subject: Re: TOP TEN FOODS, was: another system update
>
>
>
> > Ted Apricots should grow well in Texas after all they grow in Tucson
> > ,Phoenix Az and all over Mexico and I have personally seen them at 30
> > feet tall and covered with fruit I picked them from my yards out there
> > for 20 years The only problem with them is that they flower so early
> > and some times the young fruit get caught with a late frost like
> > Almonds.
> > Bruce
>
> Yes, Bruce I should say that no varieties I know of actually
> fruit reliably
> every year down here in South/Central Texas. I think this is due
> to number
> of freezing hours per year requirements of the apricot varieties, like
> peaches need so many hours, etc
.or I could have it 180
> degrees wrong and
> it is as you say, that is, the cold snaps that often creep up on
> us here in
> Texas after the blossoms have
.uh, blossomed.>
> Thanks for the input. Anyway, I love apricots, so if anyone has a variety
> to recommend that is reliable for South/Central Texas, please let me know.
> I don't really think there are any out there
.but one is always happily
> suprised to find the most unusual things out there
>
> Ted
>
>
>
|
