Aquaponics Digest - Sat 06/09/01
Message 1: Re: off and on
from Jim Joyner
Message 2: Cameras
from "Jay Myers"
Message 3: Re: Vertical axis windmills, etc.
from "gutierrez-lagatta"
Message 4: Re: New addition to list
from "gutierrez-lagatta"
Message 5: RE: Vertical axis windmills, etc.
from "billevans"
Message 6: Re: Cameras
from "gutierrez-lagatta"
Message 7: Lettuce & Vertigro
from "Jay Myers"
Message 8: Re: Lettuce & Vertigro
from "TGTX"
Message 9: Re: How to floculate and filter aquatic excrement
from "TGTX"
Message 10: RE: *temporary* filter for aquatic excrement
from Carolyn Hoagland
Message 11: Long term filtering of non-chlorinated swimming hole
from Carolyn Hoagland
Message 12: Re: Long term filtering of non-chlorinated swimming hole
from "TGTX"
Message 13: Re: Lettuce & Vertigro
from Crighton
Message 14: Re: Your strawberries
from Troa9 'at' aol.com
Message 15: Re: Flying Pacu
from fishmanbruce 'at' webtv.net (Bruce Schreiber)
Message 16: Re: How to floculate and filter aquatic excrement
from fishmanbruce 'at' webtv.net (Bruce Schreiber)
Message 17: Re: Lettuce & Vertigro
from "Jay Myers"
Message 18: Re: Lettuce & Vertigro
from "Jay Myers"
Message 19: Ph
from tony 'at' sima.ms
Message 20: Re: Lettuce & Vertigro
from "TGTX"
Message 21: Re: Long term filtering of non-chlorinated swimming hole
from "Arlos"
Message 22: Re: Flying Pacu
from "Arlos"
| Message 1
Subject: Re: off and on
From: Jim Joyner
Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2001 00:41:46 -0500
Ken,
Uh . . . I'm new at this. Would you explain what you mean?
Would the roots of the plants dry out? Wouldn't the fish be less active and
require less oxygen? Has anyone tried this?
Thanks,
Jim
At 04:25 PM 6/8/01 -0500, you wrote:
>Depends on your oxygen source for the fish.-Ken Hale
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Jim Joyner"
>To:
>Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 4:10 PM
>Subject: off and on
>
>
> > In a system such as the Speraneo's, would it advisable, or even safely
> > possible, to turn the pumping system off at night (back on at daylight)?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Jim Joyner
> >
| Message 2
Subject: Cameras
From: "Jay Myers"
Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 08:03:24 -0500
Has anyone seen an after market viewfinder for this camera ?
We have the Mavica, but in the sunshine it's mostly guesswork.
> I agree with Jay on the eyepiece thing, but I would still recommend the
Sony
> Mavica for it's ease of use and relatively low price
> The nicest thing about the Mavica is that is takes JPEG images and stores
> them on your run of the mill 3.5 inch floppy disks! This is great for
> transferring files, and they are in a universal format that is easily
> emailed without bogging down the connection!
>
> Devon
>
> >From: "Jay Myers"
> >Reply-To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
> >To:
> >Subject: Re: Photos
> >Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 19:59:22 -0500
> >
> > > What camera are you using? It's a Sony.
> >
> > I'm thinking of buying a digital camera but
> > > A. want it to be easy to use
> > > B. want it to be as cheap as possible but still give fairly decent
> > > photos
> >
> >My biggest suggestion is to get one you put up to your eye. Ours has a
> >screen on the back, so we have to hold it away from our faces, and in any
> >kind of bright light it can't be seen.
> >
> >Ours was fairly expensive, but I can focus on a gnats hemoroid. (Really
> >close) I've found that usefull because I've taken pictures of plant
> >problems, e-mailed them to plant Docs, and been fixing the problem within
> >hours.
> >
> >Jay
> >
> >
>
>
__________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>
>
| Message 3
Subject: Re: Vertical axis windmills, etc.
From: "gutierrez-lagatta"
Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 07:42:46 -0500
This looks interesting Ted, please lead the way, smoothing that
learning curve for the rest of us. I suppose you need some sort of
automatic switchover to electric for no-wind days?
Adriana
> Some years back on this list, I was yammering on about the Pierson
vertical
> axis windmill design equipped with "stators" to funnel wind into the
turbine
> and create electricity at fairly low wind speeds.
> Think greenhouse pumps and fan power, and heat, and chillers, etc.
| Message 4
Subject: Re: New addition to list
From: "gutierrez-lagatta"
Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 07:45:56 -0500
WHOA!!! Couldn't resist - sounds like a Baby Beluga to me
.that's
jsut to keep us ont topic :>).
> Here's a detail that some of the ladies on the list might sweat
.My
niece
> was a whopping 11lbs., 2oz. when she was born!!!!!!!
> Oh, her brother was 10lbs. 12oz.!!!! Sheesh!
| Message 5
Subject: RE: Vertical axis windmills, etc.
From: "billevans"
Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 05:53:29 -0700
like this? http://www.dynagensystems.com/products/tm225.htm
----------------------------------
This looks interesting Ted, please lead the way, smoothing that
learning curve for the rest of us. I suppose you need some sort of
automatic switchover to electric for no-wind days?
| Message 6
Subject: Re: Cameras
From: "gutierrez-lagatta"
Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 08:02:16 -0500
One of the Mavica's has a flip-down view finder which looks like it
resolves your prolem, Jay. But I doubtr you can retrofit it.
Adriana
> Has anyone seen an after market viewfinder for this camera ?
> We have the Mavica, but in the sunshine it's mostly guesswork.
| Message 7
Subject: Lettuce & Vertigro
From: "Jay Myers"
Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 08:21:33 -0500
Dave - The lettuce is some Cortina, but mostly Vegas R2, from Hydro-Gardens
The vertical system is from Vertigro - Tim Carpenter - in Lady Lake, Fl.
Hydro-Gardens also sells it.
Jay
> What is the name of the lettuce in your lake ?
> Where can I get more information on the vertical system you
> used for the strawberries ? It appears to be working well.
| Message 8
Subject: Re: Lettuce & Vertigro
From: "TGTX"
Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 08:42:44 -0500
Kinda looked like Ostinata to me from the pics
> Dave - The lettuce is some Cortina, but mostly Vegas R2, from
Hydro-Gardens
>
> The vertical system is from Vertigro - Tim Carpenter - in Lady Lake, Fl.
> Hydro-Gardens also sells it.
> Jay
| Message 9
Subject: Re: How to floculate and filter aquatic excrement
From: "TGTX"
Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 09:32:20 -0500
A ten cubic foot bubble bead filter would do the trick, or you could do
this:
1) Excavate 2 earthen basins, above the grade of the lined pond, perhaps on
2 opposite banks of the pond or somehow situated nearby so that the basins
will gravity drain back into the 25,000 gallon swimming hole/frog pond.
2) Make the berm around these basins 2 foot deep.
3) Make the dimensions of the basins such that each has a surface area
of
let's see
.450 square feet each
.I would suggest each basin be 6
feet wide by 75 feet long
4) Exacavate the basins in such a way that you put a slope on the basin
bottom of at least 2 to 4 inches along the 75 foot length. The lowest point
of the basins should be at least several inches, preferably a foot or so or
more, above the elevation level of the swimming pool water surface.
4) Line the basins with 20 mil black polyethylene plastic
.30 mil if you
are feeling frisky
.Raven Plastics has this material in the widths and
lengths that you need.
5) Carefully cut and penetrate the 20 or 30 mil black poly liner at the
lowest point of the basin and install a bulk head fitting with a slotted PVC
pipe, at least 2 inches in diamenter (4 inches would be better) that turns
up to the surface of the gravel that you will fill the basin with
.allowing
you to look down into the drain line and reach a brush or your hand into it
and clean the slots from the inside of the pipe. The slots can be made by
repeatedly cutting cross wise with a powersaw (1/8th inch cuts) about 1/3rd
of the depth of the diameter of the pipe
.see?
.Be extremely careful doing
this, though
.a cross cut saw mounted on an arm is a little safer than a
hand held power saw
. Or, you can order 5 foot sections of
pre-manufactured slotted pipe from your local water garden supplier, or well
and pump supply house. The exit pipe is solid outside of the liner, and
leads to a gravity return back into the swimming hole.
6) Situate the pump discharge pipe at the high end of the basins with a 6
foot wide distribution "spray" pipe, perforated with 3/8" drilled holes
every 4 to 6 inches along the length of the pipe. This pipe will rest on
the surface of the gravel. Wrap the slotted pipe pump intake section with
your filter fiber media and secure with plastic electric cable ties
watch
it and the pump closely
.If the fiber media is too tight knit it will
clog easily and you may elect to pump directly to the bed with no fiber
media involved
7) Your planting medium for this bed can be 5 parts crushed stone, or pea
gravel and 1 to 3 parts of sharp, course grain silica sand. I would
recommend closer to zero or perhaps 1 part sand at first. You can always
add another part or two of sand if you find that you need to, later on. The
size of the gravel should be 1/4 to 3/8" diameter. Near the drain pipe
stand, at the end of the bed, pack the bed with 5/8" diameter gravel/rocks
at least two feet around the drain pipe.
8) Try building just one of these basins first, or perhaps make one basin 6
feet wide by 30 feet long by 1 foot deep. If this clarifies the water to
your satisfaction, no need to overkill it right from the get-go
.you can
always add more beds, landscape space permitting
. The advantage of the 2
basins is that you can isolate one of the basins from the loop and dry it
out, flush it out by draining it somewhere other than the return line to the
swimming hole, while you are passing the recirc water through the other
gravel basin
.see??
9) Some plants to try at the head of the basin, close to the discharge pipe
on the gravel, might be papyrus, ginger(s) (there are many species of
beautiful gingers
.see Stokes Tropicals website)
.Elephant ears, ferns,
willows, etc.
10) You can pulse pump or ebb and flow pump this system
.try using an
intermatic timer that is set up on a 30 minute cycle
try 5 to 15 minutes
of continuous pumping y within the 30 minute
so, 5 minutes on, 25 minutes
off, etc, or 15 minutes on, 15 minutes off, etc
.You will have to play
with the pump cycle until it meets your needs and does not overspill the
gravel bed as it gravity drains. Introduce Koi carp into the pond, if you
wish, feeding them, and swim among them once the water gets clear. If you
have lots of sunlight and lots of nutrients going into the system, you may
still see algal blooms, in which case you may wish to think about a shade
cloth roof suspended on tall poles and 10 guage wire supports
see?? Or,
lily pads and other submerged aquatic vegetation act to shade and suppress
the planktonic algal life forms.
Hope this helps.
Happy swimming!
Ted (It ain't easy being green) Ground
(Riiidipp! Riiidippp!!)
>
> I am in the middle of a swimming hole experiment. We have a 25,000
> gallon lined pond that we plan to filter through a constructed
> wetland. What does this have to do with aquaponics? We are hoping to
> learn enough from our first constructed wetland and swimming hole
> project to use the same techniques for some recirculating fish
> ponds.
| Message 10
Subject: RE: *temporary* filter for aquatic excrement
From: Carolyn Hoagland
Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2001 11:12:39 -0500
We are talking about a lined 35,000 gallon swimming pond.
If you have suggestions, please don't hold back
Mike Asked:
What type of aquatic excrement are you talking about?? Makes it sound
yucky but still cant be as bad as the real thing!!
Tadpole poop seems like the real thing to me. There are about a
gazillion of them (50-100 critters per square foot)turning the
greenwater into what we euphemistically like to refer to as "solids."
There is no other source of nutrient. I've started netting out the
frog eggs I can see and moving them to other ponds I don't plan to
swim in. Yesterday I netted out 2 gallons of frog spawn. Today there
is another gallon of new spawn. I assume this is a seasonal issue,
our nights are wonderfully filled with the screaming/trilling of
several varieties of frogs and toads. The pond was filled with
rainwater that overflows from our cistern, and I have no plans to
stock anything in the swimming hole except a few mosquito fish or
guppies during the summer.
I'd like to be able to vacuum the solids off the bottom, and discard
them or put them on my garden. My current pump seems way too big. It
successfully sucks the solids off the bottom, *and* pulls about 200
gallons of water per minute along with all the solids completely
smashed and suspended. The resulting outflow reminds me of a fire
hose.
Carolyn
| Message 11
Subject: Long term filtering of non-chlorinated swimming hole
From: Carolyn Hoagland
Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2001 11:16:39 -0500
We are talking about using a constructed wetland to filter a 35,000
gallon lined swimming pond.
Mike also asked questions about my long term constructed wetland
plans.
Do you have land moving equipment?
Yes
Hand shovels labour?
Yes
Do U have a workable idea of what layout you want to use in terms of
landscape considerations?
Yes - a lined pea gravel bed 18" deep 3' wide and 20' long, then
another 30 feet of shallow, terraced pools which are really a slow
moving creek where I can expose the water to duckweed, sunlight, and
other local aquatic plants.
Do you want to grow a "crop" of something for use?
I am not opposed to growing a crop, but that is way low on my priority
list. I have a gasoline pump for backup emergencies. My hope is to
use a solar operated pump to move water to the top of the constructed
wetland whenever the sun is shining, the wetland will be resting,
mostly stagnant under conditions of no sun. My emphasis is to find
local plants (cattails?, sedges?) to form a semi-permanent growbed
that will pump oxygen from the leaves down into the gravel bed (I've
read that cattails, reeds, and sedges do this). When we have learned
how to operate this constructed wetland successfully with a low/no
nutrient swimming hole, then we want to use a similar technique with a
couple of recirculating fish ponds.
Do you have duckweed where you are from?
Yes, several varieties of underwater plants also.
Are you allowed to use water hyacinths where you are?
Water hyacinths are available and legal here, but the going price is
about $2-3 dollars per piece (!).
| Message 12
Subject: Re: Long term filtering of non-chlorinated swimming hole
From: "TGTX"
Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 13:13:33 -0500
> Yes - a lined pea gravel bed 18" deep 3' wide and 20' long, then
> another 30 feet of shallow, terraced pools which are really a slow
> moving creek where I can expose the water to duckweed, sunlight, and
> other local aquatic plants.
Sounds great. Really like to see the photos once you have it set up.
> Do you want to grow a "crop" of something for use?
> I am not opposed to growing a crop, but that is way low on my priority
> list. I have a gasoline pump for backup emergencies. My hope is to
> use a solar operated pump to move water to the top of the constructed
> wetland whenever the sun is shining, the wetland will be resting,
> mostly stagnant under conditions of no sun. My emphasis is to find
> local plants (cattails?, sedges?) to form a semi-permanent growbed
> that will pump oxygen from the leaves down into the gravel bed (I've
> read that cattails, reeds, and sedges do this). When we have learned
> how to operate this constructed wetland successfully with a low/no
> nutrient swimming hole, then we want to use a similar technique with a
> couple of recirculating fish ponds.
Yeah, the sizes I suggested earlier could really be trimmed down
significantly with a low nutrient, low animal population system
all you
really wanna do is filter the suspended solids generated by the algae and
critters living there without a big feed input right? But, if you did
decide to build the gravel filter bigger, then you might elect to go to a
feeding/semi-intensive fish pond later on after a few years
depends on if
you plan to keep this swimming hole as a crystal clean recreational water
tank or not
| Message 13
Subject: Re: Lettuce & Vertigro
From: Crighton
Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2001 12:26:52 -0700
If you don't mind my asking, do you have to do anything special with lighting?
Lyla
Jay Myers wrote:
> Dave - The lettuce is some Cortina, but mostly Vegas R2, from Hydro-Gardens
>
> The vertical system is from Vertigro - Tim Carpenter - in Lady Lake, Fl.
> Hydro-Gardens also sells it.
> Jay
>
> > What is the name of the lettuce in your lake ?
> > Where can I get more information on the vertical system you
> > used for the strawberries ? It appears to be working well.
| Message 14
Subject: Re: Your strawberries
From: Troa9 'at' aol.com
Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 18:15:02 EDT
No, Jay,,,I have not heard of Tim Carpenter,,,and my 'system' is very
primitive,,,just about 12 pots with 'drip emitters',,,never did learn how
long to use the tank nutrient before changing,,,and, to change means to waste
about 7 gals of nutrient,,,cant decide which,,,nutrient problems or Heat !!
You must certainly 'cool' your tent in the summer,,,I know what the temp can
be like in P City,,,, Jason
| Message 15
Subject: Re: Flying Pacu
From: fishmanbruce 'at' webtv.net (Bruce Schreiber)
Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 18:49:09 -0500 (CDT)
Folks I just checked with my supplier about Pacu prices and the
wholesale price on what is called red pacu sent to me in Wisconin from
Florida is $1.00 dollar each deliverd in lots of 100 or ad 15% in
smaller lots so 50 would be $1.15 each.
Steve how many do you want me to order for you? Take note that they
sell for $4 to $6 each from a pet store but I get all of my supplies
from this store at wholesale price due to an arangement that I have had
for years with them .
Bruce
| Message 16
Subject: Re: How to floculate and filter aquatic excrement
From: fishmanbruce 'at' webtv.net (Bruce Schreiber)
Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 19:23:39 -0500 (CDT)
Make a big sand box up on shore more of a beach really .Sort of a beach
were the water from your pump flows through to get to the pond you might
have to use pea gravel in sted of sand but it will work ok.
Bruce
| Message 17
Subject: Re: Lettuce & Vertigro
From: "Jay Myers"
Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 19:36:44 -0500
I don't - it's in a 30' X 108' greenhouse, but in winter when it's all
strawberries in the towers I grow spinach in the bottom level - the berries
don't seem to get enough light to do as well as their penthouse brothers &
sisters.
Jay
> If you don't mind my asking, do you have to do anything special with
lighting?
>
> Lyla
| Message 18
Subject: Re: Lettuce & Vertigro
From: "Jay Myers"
Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 19:58:34 -0500
Hi Ted -
Hydro Gardens says Ostinata is not available any more - just no seed.
Jay
> Kinda looked like Ostinata to me from the pics
>
>
> > Dave - The lettuce is some Cortina, but mostly Vegas R2, from
> Hydro-Gardens
| Message 19
Subject: Ph
From: tony 'at' sima.ms
Date: 10 Jun 2001 01:52:10 -0000
I've been adding 20kl Lime(calcium Carbonate) each fortnight to raise the ph.
My stockist is out of same so is there an economic alternative that is harmless
to fish & redclaw.
Tony
--
Get your firstname 'at' lastname email for FREE at http://Nameplanet.com/?su
| Message 20
Subject: Re: Lettuce & Vertigro
From: "TGTX"
Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 22:01:58 -0500
Ha Ho!
Well, I think I still have some seed!
Perhaps I should grow it to seed, eh?
Ted
> Hi Ted -
>
> Hydro Gardens says Ostinata is not available any more - just no seed.
> Jay
| Message 21
Subject: Re: Long term filtering of non-chlorinated swimming hole
From: "Arlos"
Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 20:28:38 -0700
Carolyn,
Here is a site that should give some information concerning plants and
design for a wetlands solution to waste treatment.
http://www.annapoliscounty.ns.ca/how.htm
Cheers,
Arlos
-----Original Message-----
From: Carolyn Hoagland
To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
Date: Saturday, June 09, 2001 9:16 AM
Subject: Long term filtering of non-chlorinated swimming hole
>We are talking about using a constructed wetland to filter a 35,000
>gallon lined swimming pond.
>
>Mike also asked questions about my long term constructed wetland
>plans.
>Do you have land moving equipment?
>Yes
>
>Hand shovels labour?
>Yes
>
>Do U have a workable idea of what layout you want to use in terms of
>landscape considerations?
>Yes - a lined pea gravel bed 18" deep 3' wide and 20' long, then
>another 30 feet of shallow, terraced pools which are really a slow
>moving creek where I can expose the water to duckweed, sunlight, and
>other local aquatic plants.
>
>Do you want to grow a "crop" of something for use?
>I am not opposed to growing a crop, but that is way low on my priority
>list. I have a gasoline pump for backup emergencies. My hope is to
>use a solar operated pump to move water to the top of the constructed
>wetland whenever the sun is shining, the wetland will be resting,
>mostly stagnant under conditions of no sun. My emphasis is to find
>local plants (cattails?, sedges?) to form a semi-permanent growbed
>that will pump oxygen from the leaves down into the gravel bed (I've
>read that cattails, reeds, and sedges do this). When we have learned
>how to operate this constructed wetland successfully with a low/no
>nutrient swimming hole, then we want to use a similar technique with a
>couple of recirculating fish ponds.
>
>
>Do you have duckweed where you are from?
>Yes, several varieties of underwater plants also.
>
>Are you allowed to use water hyacinths where you are?
>Water hyacinths are available and legal here, but the going price is
>about $2-3 dollars per piece (!).
>
| Message 22
Subject: Re: Flying Pacu
From: "Arlos"
Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 20:46:31 -0700
Bruce,
Thanks, I got roughly the same prices quoted from Florida to CA. I'm in
the process of dancing with the Dept of Fish and Game to import non native
species.
Arlos.
-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Schreiber
To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
Date: Saturday, June 09, 2001 4:49 PM
Subject: Re: Flying Pacu
Folks I just checked with my supplier about Pacu prices and the
wholesale price on what is called red pacu sent to me in Wisconin from
Florida is $1.00 dollar each deliverd in lots of 100 or ad 15% in
smaller lots so 50 would be $1.15 each.
Steve how many do you want me to order for you? Take note that they
sell for $4 to $6 each from a pet store but I get all of my supplies
from this store at wholesale price due to an arangement that I have had
for years with them .
Bruce
|
