Aquaponics Digest - Fri 06/29/01
Message 1: RE: Fresh Water Mussels(2)
from "Mark Allen Wells"
Message 2: Re: Algae Basics & swimming hole / wetland update
from "Leslie Ter Morshuizen"
Message 3: Re: Fresh Water Mussels
from "Arlos"
Message 4: Re: Algae basics and swimming hole. from Buck-eye-land 'at' webtv.net (James Kennedy)
Message 5: Re: Perlite and fluoride
from Crighton
Message 6: RE: Fresh Water Mussels
from "Mark Allen Wells"
Message 7: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Thu 06/28/01
from DAVEINBHAM 'at' aol.com
Message 8: Re: tomato vibrator/scales
from "Steven Medlock"
Message 9: Re: Algae basics and swimming hole. from Franklin Wayne Poley
Message 10: Welcome
from dreadlox 'at' cwjamaica.com
Message 11: Eco-Sanitation, Radical "ponics" and Swimming Holes. from dreadlox 'at' cwjamaica.com
Message 12: Google Search: university of california, berkeley, algae, hydrogen
from kris book
Message 13: Google Search: university of california, berkeley, algae, hydrogen
from kris book
Message 14: RE: Google Search: university of california, berkeley, algae, hydrogen
from "Carol Stone"
Message 15: Re: Fresh Water Mussels
from "F.Carl Uhland"
Message 16: Zebra Mussels (Arlos)
from "Wells, Mark CAR"
Message 17: Re: Google Search: university of california, berkeley, algae, hydrogen
from kris book
Message 18: Re: Zebra Mussels (Arlos)
from "Arlos"
Message 19: Re: Fresh Water Mussels
from "Arlos"
Message 20: Re: scales
from Allen
Message 21: Re: Algae basics and swimming hole. from "Arlos"
| Message 1
Subject: RE: Fresh Water Mussels(2)
From: "Mark Allen Wells"
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 00:15:16 -0500
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I just found this document, it has some info that may be what you are after.
http://www.livingmachines.com/pdfs/ecoeng.pdf
-----Original Message-----
From: aquaponics-request 'at' townsqr.com
[mailto:aquaponics-request 'at' townsqr.com]On Behalf Of Mark Allen Wells
Sent: Friday, June 29, 2001 12:03 AM
To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
Subject: RE: Fresh Water Mussels
Hello Arlos,
I am not sure of the species but the people at www.livingmachines.com
or www.oceanarks.org may be able to help you. I have always been
fascinated with John Todd's "living machines".
hope this helps,
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: aquaponics-request 'at' townsqr.com
[mailto:aquaponics-request 'at' townsqr.com]On Behalf Of Arlos
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 12:03 AM
To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
Subject: Fresh Water Mussels
Anyone have any experience using fresh water mussels for water quality
control? If so what species?
Arlos
------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C10030.92BA5600
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charset="iso-8859-1"
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I just=20
found this document, it has some info that may be what you are=20
after.
http://www.livingm=
achines.com/pdfs/ecoeng.pdf
Hello Arlos,
I am=20
not sure of the species but the people at www.livingmachines.com<=
/SPAN>
fascinated with John Todd's "living machines". =20
hope=20
this helps,
Mark
Anyone have any experience using fresh water =
mussels for=20
water quality control? If so what species?
Arlos
------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C10030.92BA5600--
| Message 2
Subject: Re: Algae Basics & swimming hole / wetland update
From: "Leslie Ter Morshuizen"
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 07:36:53 +0200
Hi Carolyn and the rest of the gang
The use of bog filters adjacent to fish ponds to strip the water of
nutrients is documented in the koi keeping/pond keeping literature. Water
is sucked from the lowest point of the pond by a pump and delivered to the
highest point of the bogfilter. The bogfilter is essentially a second pond,
shallower (30cm), waterproof to prevent water loss and channelled into
ensure the water flows through the entire filter before exiting back to the
pond via a waterfall, cascade or as you wish. Fill the bogfilter with 12mm
gravel (perhaps what you refer to as pea gravel in the US?) to a depth of
20cm and planted with bog irises and other attractive plants to create a
water feature. The gravel acts as a biological filter medium, the
nitrifying bacteria convert the nitrogenous metabolic wastes to nitrate,
which is taken up by the plants. It is important that the unit be scaled
according to the size of the pond; the surface areas should be about equal
and the entire pond volume should be filtered at least every second hour.
The result should be clear healthy pond water plus a plant feature.
Have fun,
Leslie
----- Original Message -----
From: Carolyn Hoagland
To:
Sent: Thursday, 28 June, 2001 6:39 PM
Subject: Algae Basics & swimming hole / wetland update
> Hi Folks,
>
> The constructed wetland for our swimming hole is nearly constructed;
> the rain stopped, the dirt has been moved, the trench is dug, today I
> plan to install the liner and the gravel should arrive shortly. I've
> located plenty of cattails, reeds, etc
>
> After the installation has settled in, most nutrients should be
> filtered out of the water. The swimming hole, (and fishponds that are
> my next project) are in direct sunlight. I am planning to grow
> duckweed on the surface of the fishponds to reduce algae, but that
> really doesn't work too well for the swimming hole.
>
> Anyone want to take a stab at confirming my thoughts on algae control?
>
> Promotes algae:
> Sunlight
> nutrients in the water
> warm temperature
> no water changes
>
> Reduces algae:
> Darkness
> low nutrients
> cold water temps
> (I'm not going for this - I like my swimming water to be
> princess temperature!)
> frequent water changes
> (maybe) barley straw
> algae eaters
> (I'd appreciate any specific names of fish, minnows,
> microorganisms, shellfish, or invertebrates that are
> native to the N. American Temperate Zone)
>
> Anything basic I've missed about algae? How does D.O. and PH and
> tank/liner color (mine's black) effect its growth?
>
> Thanks in Advance,
> Carolyn Hoagland
> Sewanee, TN, U.S.A.
| Message 3
Subject: Re: Fresh Water Mussels
From: "Arlos"
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 08:02:15 -0700
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Mark,
Thanks for the two web sites. I've been a promoter of this alternative =
technology for nearly 20 years. I know this gets a bit off topic to the =
group but
If you consider it was Thomas Jefferson that gave us the =
septic tank as we know it today, it has changed little since then. The =
idea that the earth will filter what ever we put in it needs to be =
critically thought out. Plants and animals take up nutrients via solar =
energy. This all takes place on the surface, more or less. Using =
hydroponics we essentially are achieving the same value added goal of =
reuse of resource. Anyone living around a lake, stream or river knows =
that septic leaching into the ground water will find its way into that =
body of water. Summer blooms of algae have increased over the years and =
water quality has decreased. This is especially true of animal husbandry =
operations.I'm going to be in Idaho in a few weeks and will take a =
series of photos at a dairy operation just above a lake and you can see =
the algae bloom as a stream in the water. My original request for mussel =
info was two fold. They do filter organisms and nutrients at rates of up =
to 20+ liters per day from the water column. This makes them excellent =
markers of environmental change and livling filters. Under optimal =
conditions, that is without predation and correct water and nutritional =
needs met, they can live well over 100 years. If I can find a source =
appropriate to my region, I'm hoping to add a side stream and monitor =
the water quality. I use a UV system for sterilization as a final phase =
for treatment as to not inadvertently release a non native species.
Working in the Caribbean in particular, commissioning desalination =
plants, the waste treatment at resorts was next to non existent. =
Chlorinated more or less primary treatment of waste was usual discharged =
via a pipe line to an outer reef and the decay of reefs are in part due =
to human impact.I had often thought using plants and animals to break =
down waste and recover the water would lessen the need to use more =
energy to produce water for surface discharge like landscaping needs. If =
you only knew the costs for producing desalinated water for a golf =
course
. On Virgin Gorda the demand on water was so great that potable =
water was tankard in from PR. The crown had a choke hold on power and at =
the time, use of solar photo voltaic was not permitted which made =
importation of diesel fuel another environmental concern. The brine =
stream is of great concern as studies show little harm to reef systems =
and breeding grounds for species like Mullet but I have my doubts about =
this.The seasonal demand had placed such a strain on water resources =
that the use of sisterns and ground water was over run years ago. A =
small private resort called Little Dix built by the Rockefellers plus =
the area known as Spanish town has a water plant built from a distiller =
salvaged from a WW2 ship.One last note
. studies have shown Mexico has =
60% less available potable water than 20 years ago. This puts everyone =
on this board at the cutting edge of research for water reuse. The best =
observations and use more often come from those working around this =
daily and not from engineers like myself or scientists and academics. =
This still brings up the point, I'm still in need of info from anyone =
using mussels or who have lived around them and know their benefit to a =
body of water. Nature likes to keep it simple without our constant need =
to meddle in her affairs. Its amazing what we can learn from it.
Arlos
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Allen Wells
To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
Date: Thursday, June 28, 2001 10:02 PM
Subject: RE: Fresh Water Mussels
Hello Arlos,
=20
I am not sure of the species but the people at www.livingmachines.com
or www.oceanarks.org may be able to help you. I have always been
fascinated with John Todd's "living machines". =20
=20
hope this helps,
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: aquaponics-request 'at' townsqr.com =
[mailto:aquaponics-request 'at' townsqr.com]On Behalf Of Arlos
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 12:03 AM
To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
Subject: Fresh Water Mussels
Anyone have any experience using fresh water mussels for water =
quality control? If so what species?
Arlos
------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C10071.CF4E3C80
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charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Mark,
Thanks for the two web sites. I've been a =
promoter of=20
this alternative technology for nearly 20 years. I know this gets a bit =
off=20
topic to the group but
If you consider it was Thomas Jefferson that =
gave us=20
the septic tank as we know it today, it has changed little since then. =
The idea=20
that the earth will filter what ever we put in it needs to be critically =
thought=20
out. Plants and animals take up nutrients via solar energy. This all =
takes place=20
on the surface, more or less. Using hydroponics we essentially are =
achieving the=20
same value added goal of reuse of resource. Anyone living around a lake, =
stream=20
or river knows that septic leaching into the ground water will find its =
way into=20
that body of water. Summer blooms of algae have increased over the years =
and=20
water quality has decreased. This is especially true of animal husbandry =
operations.I'm going to be in Idaho in a few weeks and will take a =
series=20
of photos at a dairy operation just above a lake and you can see the =
algae bloom=20
as a stream in the water. My original request for mussel info was two =
fold. They=20
do filter organisms and nutrients at rates of up to 20+ liters per day =
from the=20
water column. This makes them excellent markers of environmental change =
and=20
livling filters. Under optimal conditions, that is without =
predation and=20
correct water and nutritional needs met, they can live well over 100 =
years. If I=20
can find a source appropriate to my region, I'm hoping to add a side =
stream and=20
monitor the water quality. I use a UV system for sterilization as a =
final=20
phase for treatment as to not inadvertently release a non =
native=20
species.
Working in the Caribbean in particular, =
commissioning=20
desalination plants, the waste treatment at resorts was next to non =
existent.=20
Chlorinated more or less primary treatment of waste was usual discharged =
via a=20
pipe line to an outer reef and the decay of reefs are in part due to =
human=20
impact.I had often thought using plants and animals to break down waste =
and=20
recover the water would lessen the need to use more energy to produce =
water for=20
surface discharge like landscaping needs. If you only knew the costs for =
producing desalinated water for a golf course
. On Virgin Gorda the =
demand on=20
water was so great that potable water was tankard in from PR. The crown =
had a=20
choke hold on power and at the time, use of solar photo voltaic was not=20
permitted which made importation of diesel fuel another environmental=20
concern. The brine stream is of great concern as studies show =
little harm=20
to reef systems and breeding grounds for species like Mullet but I have =
my=20
doubts about this.The seasonal demand had placed such a strain on =
water=20
resources that the use of sisterns and ground water was over run years =
ago. A=20
small private resort called Little Dix built by the Rockefellers plus =
the area=20
known as Spanish town has a water plant built from a distiller salvaged =
from a=20
WW2 ship.One last note
. studies have shown Mexico has 60% less =
available=20
potable water than 20 years ago. This puts everyone on this board at the =
cutting=20
edge of research for water reuse. The best observations and use more =
often come=20
from those working around this daily and not from engineers like myself =
or=20
scientists and academics. This still brings up the point, I'm still in =
need of=20
info from anyone using mussels or who have lived around them and =
know their=20
benefit to a body of water. Nature likes to keep it simple without our =
constant=20
need to meddle in her affairs. Its amazing what we can learn from=20
it
.
Arlos
-----Original =
Message-----
From:=20
Mark Allen Wells <mawells 'at' bpsinet.com>
To:=
aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com =
<aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com>
=
Date:=20
Thursday, June 28, 2001 10:02 PM
Subject: RE: Fresh =
Water=20
Mussels
Hello Arlos,
I am=20
not sure of the species but the people at www.livingmachines.com<=
/SPAN>
fascinated with John Todd's "living machines". =20
hope=20
this helps,
Mark
Anyone have any experience using fresh water =
mussels for=20
water quality control? If so what species?
Arlos
------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C10071.CF4E3C80--
| Message 4
Subject: Re: Algae basics and swimming hole.From: Buck-eye-land 'at' webtv.net (James Kennedy)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 11:28:16 -0400 (EDT)
Carolyn--As an aquarium keeper, I can tell you a little about algae (the
bane of aquarists). Algae will come 3 main ways--as a green or brown
slime that covers the bottom(and every thing else), as green to black
"tufts" that attach to stuff under the water (also called
filamentatious{sp?} or "hair" or "beard" algae), or most likely, your
water is going to turn green, which aquarists oddly enough call "Green
Water".
Your local pond snails will eat the slime, and if no predators get
introduced you should get quite a population going--but they won't keep
it slime free--you'll probably need a pool brush to keep areas where you
walk cleaned off.
Your best algae eater for the hair algae will probably be your common
goldfish. They sell "feeders" at your local pet store for probably
10=A2 ea. I'd put a bunch in and don't feed them, and they'll
constantly stay after the algae. After they get big enough, they might
eat a few tadpoles for you as well. And I would think they'd be OK to
swim with.
Daphnia, or "Water Fleas" will take care of Green Water outbreaks,
although it will take them awhile for the population to grow enough to
help. After they eat all the algae, their numbers should dwindle down
again. The biggest problem with Daphnia is they won't survive in a pond
with small predaceous fish, which you are going to need to eat the
mosquito larvae.
I'm afraid I don't know how to resolve that problem. If you can't find
any daphnia at your local pet store (sometimes sold as live food) or at
a nearby (fishless) pond, try Aquabid.com , I bought a culture from a
man there this spring.
Also for more reading about algae, try
theKrib.com , where all aquarists go when they have questions. You
might also check out the APD(Aquatic Plants Digest), it has some of the
smartest people I've "met" (in cyberspace), especially when it comes to
plants and algae.
My own pond that I built for swimming quickly acquired giant waterbugs,
(that have a painful bite and can suck the "juice" out of a medium sized
frog), very large leeches and a large snapping turtle (which I don't
really worry about but makes everyone else nervous), and opaque brown
water. So I'm afraid we swim in a pool, and leave the pond to the wild
things. I wish you better success with yours.
Hope this helps,
Jim Kennedy
BTW this is my first post to this list (that I can recall) after lurking
for months and I just have to say it is one list I always read--tho I
may never try an aquaponic system(if you don't count planted aquariums)
I still find most of the subjects discussed here, and the people that
discuss them, fascinating. Thank-you to the list-owner.
| Message 5
Subject: Re: Perlite and fluoride
From: Crighton
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 09:14:23 -0700
Excellent, thank you.
lyla
gutierrez-lagatta wrote:
> > Does any one find that perlite breaks down (crushes) and plugs small
> > lines?
>
> You should take some preventive measures with perlite, including:
>
> 1. Screens at the drains from the beds
> 2. A strainer at your return to the main nutrient tank
> 3. A filter/strainer in the inlet to the supply line
> 4. A 100 micron (I think) filter in your supply line after the pump
>
> Adriana
| Message 6
Subject: RE: Fresh Water Mussels
From: "Mark Allen Wells"
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 11:37:37 -0500
Arlos,
Thanks for the reply. I enjoy hearing about other's experiences.
When I learned of John Todd's living machines after working for
years in a class 4 activated sludge plant, I thought
."WOW.this guy on to something". Since then I have been much more
observant of nature's systems and shake my head every time I
see factory livestock operations. I hope the work at S & S
aquafarms and Joel Salatin's work with pastured beef and poultry
catch on. They are excellent examples of what can be done.
The pdf file link in my second post had some specific species of
clams listed in the document. I didn't get a chance to read all
of it but will later.
keep fighting the good fight my friend
.and keep sharing your
knowledge.
Mark
--
Mark,
Thanks for the two web sites. I've been a promoter of this alternative
technology for nearly 20 years. I know this gets a bit off topic to the
group but
If you consider it was Thomas Jefferson that gave us the
septic tank as we know it today, it has changed little since then. The idea
that the earth will filter what ever we put in it needs to be critically
thought out. Plants and animals take up nutrients via solar energy. This all
takes place on the surface, more or less. Using hydroponics we essentially
are achieving the same value added goal of reuse of resource. Anyone living
around a lake, stream or river knows that septic leaching into the ground
water will find its way into that body of water. Summer blooms of algae have
increased over the years and water quality has decreased. This is especially
true of animal husbandry operations.I'm going to be in Idaho in a few weeks
and will take a series of photos at a dairy operation just above a lake and
you can see the algae bloom as a stream in the water. My original request
for mussel info was two fold. They do filter organisms and nutrients at
rates of up to 20+ liters per day from the water column. This makes them
excellent markers of environmental change and livling filters. Under
optimal conditions, that is without predation and correct water and
nutritional needs met, they can live well over 100 years. If I can find a
source appropriate to my region, I'm hoping to add a side stream and monitor
the water quality. I use a UV system for sterilization as a final phase for
treatment as to not inadvertently release a non native species.
Working in the Caribbean in particular, commissioning desalination plants,
the waste treatment at resorts was next to non existent. Chlorinated more or
less primary treatment of waste was usual discharged via a pipe line to an
outer reef and the decay of reefs are in part due to human impact.I had
often thought using plants and animals to break down waste and recover the
water would lessen the need to use more energy to produce water for surface
discharge like landscaping needs. If you only knew the costs for producing
desalinated water for a golf course
. On Virgin Gorda the demand on water
was so great that potable water was tankard in from PR. The crown had a
choke hold on power and at the time, use of solar photo voltaic was not
permitted which made importation of diesel fuel another environmental
concern. The brine stream is of great concern as studies show little harm
to reef systems and breeding grounds for species like Mullet but I have my
doubts about this.The seasonal demand had placed such a strain on water
resources that the use of sisterns and ground water was over run years ago.
A small private resort called Little Dix built by the Rockefellers plus the
area known as Spanish town has a water plant built from a distiller salvaged
from a WW2 ship.One last note
. studies have shown Mexico has 60% less
available potable water than 20 years ago. This puts everyone on this board
at the cutting edge of research for water reuse. The best observations and
use more often come from those working around this daily and not from
engineers like myself or scientists and academics. This still brings up the
point, I'm still in need of info from anyone using mussels or who have lived
around them and know their benefit to a body of water. Nature likes to keep
it simple without our constant need to meddle in her affairs. Its amazing
what we can learn from it.
Arlos
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Allen Wells
To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
Date: Thursday, June 28, 2001 10:02 PM
Subject: RE: Fresh Water Mussels
Hello Arlos,
I am not sure of the species but the people at www.livingmachines.com
or www.oceanarks.org may be able to help you. I have always been
fascinated with John Todd's "living machines".
hope this helps,
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: aquaponics-request 'at' townsqr.com
[mailto:aquaponics-request 'at' townsqr.com]On Behalf Of Arlos
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 12:03 AM
To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
Subject: Fresh Water Mussels
Anyone have any experience using fresh water mussels for water quality
control? If so what species?
Arlos
| Message 7
Subject: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Thu 06/28/01
From: DAVEINBHAM 'at' aol.com
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 13:19:20 EDT
In a message dated 6/29/01 12:08:51 AM Central Daylight Time,
aquaponics-digest-request 'at' townsqr.com writes:
<< I'm kind of curious though about the use of freshwater mussels and clams
for water quality control. Any native to Tenn.?
Hope this is of some help.
>>
******************************************************************
There are many freshwater clams and mussels native to Tennessee. I do not
know their names. To find them look in the Tennessee River.
Regards,
Dave
| Message 8
Subject: Re: tomato vibrator/scales
From: "Steven Medlock"
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 12:36:49 -0500
I am using the S&S System in a 30x48' green house. Just plastic covered
concrete floor. Heat is going to be my next problem I don't have the
extreme thichness of the S&S greenhouse walls.
Red
----- Original Message -----
From: STEVE SPRING
To:
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 11:54 PM
Subject: Re: tomato vibrator/scales
> Hey Red,
>
> What kind of Greenhouse do you have?
>
> SS
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steven Medlock"
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2001 7:44 PM
> Subject: Re: tomato vibrator/scales
>
>
> Just for info, I have ordered the bumble bees. I will let everyone know
how
> it goes. There was no way I could pollinate 200 plants by hand. I am
open
> to any other options. the bees are expensive. But to the amount of blooms
I
> am loosing worth it. I have started with 30 plants way ahead of the other
> 200 or so glad I did that, now I can work through all my problems. Lesson
> learned.
> Red
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: STEVE SPRING
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2001 12:24 AM
> Subject: tomato vibrator/scales
>
>
> > I have been using and suggesting the use of a tomato vibrator from
> > www.hydro-gardens.com.
> >
> > See picture below:
> >
> > http://www.hydro-gardens.com/growsup1.htm#pollinator
> >
> > It is a very good vibrator and cost only $14.95.
> >
> > I. Red, Alan and other subscribers have more than a "few" tomato plants.
> We
> > would like to know if anyone has any info on a more commercial tomato
> > pollinator.
> >
> > Also, I would like info on a scale that weighs in oz's. Anyone out there
> got
> > got any info on this. Everyone I look at cost $400+.
> >
> > Would appreciate any input.
> >
> > Thanks
Steve
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
| Message 9
Subject: Re: Algae basics and swimming hole.From: Franklin Wayne Poley
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 10:43:25 -0700 (PDT)
Is algae a serious contender as a staple food source?
FWP
| Message 10
Subject: Welcome
From: dreadlox 'at' cwjamaica.com
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 13:26:49 -0700
Welcome James,
Welcome out of Lurkland!! :>
Hope to hear more from you!! (and to all lurkers, PLEASE jump in with
your questions!! Makes it all the more interesting for us!!)
Regards,
Mike,
JAMAICA.
James Kennedy wrote:
>
> BTW this is my first post to this list (that I can recall) after lurking for months and I
just have to say it is one list I always read--
| Message 11
Subject: Eco-Sanitation, Radical "ponics" and Swimming Holes.From: dreadlox 'at' cwjamaica.com
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 13:28:52 -0700
The older ones here may remember a guy from Australia, who we all had
fun answering, with questions about a recirc urine system
lol
Maybe if you are interested to know more about urine diversion toilets,
or how to build a good sanitation system for your remoe farm, you might
be interested in downloading the very interesting and free document:
"ECOLOGICAL SANITATION" published by the Swedish International
Development Cooperation Agency
available as an Acrobat reader file at:
http://www.gwpforum.org/gwpef/wfmain.nsf/407e3bc247c1a964852564df00755a78/a7c64dd72ea21b1ac12567af0042edd7/$FILE/EcoSan.pdf
This file has a few "general info" chapters on the bacterialogical
issues of waste/greywater, and may be of interest to Carolyn and others
who are trying to do some water clean up. I know others have asked too
about a swimming hole
to be somehow included into their aquaponic
loop.
I think having seen some of the rivers around the world I would gladly
swim in my own aquaponic recirc!! :
Out of interest, does anyone use UV to treat their return water from the
growbeds?? Im thinking of sensitive broodstock/disease control etc. In a
case like this I would definitely feel safer to swim in my fishtank than
in the river!!
By the way, the file is 100 pages
but shows some rather radical
"ponics" ideas. (Radi-ponics??)
Regards,
Mike.
I
| Message 12
Subject: Google Search: university of california, berkeley, algae, hydrogen
From: kris book
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 13:17:53 -0600
Before you kill any algae, you might want to take a look at this.
kris
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=university+of+california%2C
+berkeley%2C+algae%2C+hydrogen&btnG=Google+Search
| Message 13
Subject: Google Search: university of california, berkeley, algae, hydrogen
From: kris book
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 13:52:45 -0600
I don't know why only half of that link was highlighted but, here is the
correct link for hydrogen power from algae.
kris
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=university+of+california%2C
+berkeley%2C+algae%2C+hydrogen&btnG=Google+Search
| Message 14
Subject: RE: Google Search: university of california, berkeley, algae, hydrogen
From: "Carol Stone"
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 16:04:41 -0400
People are going to have to put the link back together. Just cut and paste
it into a text editor and get rid of the carriage return in the middle of
it.
A lot of e-mail clients add carriage returns to outgoing e-mail. Sometimes
you can do something about it and sometimes you can't.
-carol
> -----Original Message-----
> [mailto:aquaponics-request 'at' townsqr.com]On Behalf Of kris book
> Sent: Friday, June 29, 2001 3:53 PM
>
> I don't know why only half of that link was highlighted but,
> here is the
> correct link for hydrogen power from algae.
>
> kris
>
> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=university+of+ca
> lifornia%2C
> +berkeley%2C+algae%2C+hydrogen&btnG=Google+Search
>
| Message 15
Subject: Re: Fresh Water Mussels
From: "F.Carl Uhland"
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 16:46:13 -0400
Hello all,
One thing you must keep in mind with fresh water mussels, is that part of=20
their life cycle is parasitic on fish (at least with the family=20
Unionidae). The glochidia released by mature mussels can cause severe=20
damage to a fishes gills. If it desired to place the mussels in a closed=20
recirculation type system with the fish stocks, appropriate preventive=20
measures should be taken to prevent transmission. Perhaps a filter of some=
=20
sort before reintegration into the main water flow, or utilising a biobog=20
after the mussels??
Carl
At 08:02 29-06-01 -0700, you wrote:
>Mark,
>
> Thanks for the two web sites. I've been a promoter of this alternative=
=20
> technology for nearly 20 years. I know this gets a bit off topic to the=20
> group but
If you consider it was Thomas Jefferson that gave us the=20
> septic tank as we know it today, it has changed little since then. The=20
> idea that the earth will filter what ever we put in it needs to be=20
> critically thought out. Plants and animals take up nutrients via solar=20
> energy. This all takes place on the surface, more or less. Using=20
> hydroponics we essentially are achieving the same value added goal of=20
> reuse of resource. Anyone living around a lake, stream or river knows=20
> that septic leaching into the ground water will find its way into that=20
> body of water. Summer blooms of algae have increased over the years and=20
> water quality has decreased. This is especially true of animal husbandry=
=20
> operations.I'm going to be in Idaho in a few weeks and will take=20
> a series of photos at a dairy operation just above a lake and you can=20
> see the algae bloom as a stream in the water. My original request for=20
> mussel info was two fold. They do filter organisms and nutrients at rates=
=20
> of up to 20+ liters per day from the water column. This makes them=20
> excellent markers of environmental change and livling filters. Under=20
> optimal conditions, that is without predation and correct water and=20
> nutritional needs met, they can live well over 100 years. If I can find a=
=20
> source appropriate to my region, I'm hoping to add a side stream and=20
> monitor the water quality. I use a UV system for sterilization as a final=
=20
> phase for treatment as to not inadvertently release a non native species.
> Working in the Caribbean in particular, commissioning desalination=20
> plants, the waste treatment at resorts was next to non existent.=20
> Chlorinated more or less primary treatment of waste was usual discharged=
=20
> via a pipe line to an outer reef and the decay of reefs are in part due=20
> to human impact.I had often thought using plants and animals to break=20
> down waste and recover the water would lessen the need to use more energy=
=20
> to produce water for surface discharge like landscaping needs. If you=20
> only knew the costs for producing desalinated water for a golf course
.=
=20
> On Virgin Gorda the demand on water was so great that potable water was=20
> tankard in from PR. The crown had a choke hold on power and at the time,=
=20
> use of solar photo voltaic was not permitted which made importation of=20
> diesel fuel another environmental concern. The brine stream is of great=
=20
> concern as studies show little harm to reef systems and breeding grounds=
=20
> for species like Mullet but I have my doubts about this.The seasonal=20
> demand had placed such a strain on water resources that the use of=20
> sisterns and ground water was over run years ago. A small private resort=
=20
> called Little Dix built by the Rockefellers plus the area known as=20
> Spanish town has a water plant built from a distiller salvaged from a WW2=
=20
> ship.One last note
. studies have shown Mexico has 60% less available=20
> potable water than 20 years ago. This puts everyone on this board at the=
=20
> cutting edge of research for water reuse. The best observations and use=20
> more often come from those working around this daily and not from=20
> engineers like myself or scientists and academics. This still brings up=20
> the point, I'm still in need of info from anyone using mussels or who=20
> have lived around them and know their benefit to a body of water. Nature=
=20
> likes to keep it simple without our constant need to meddle in her=20
> affairs. Its amazing what we can learn from it.>
>Arlos
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Mark Allen Wells <mawells 'at' bpsinet.com>
>>To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com=20
>><aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com>
>>Date: Thursday, June 28, 2001 10:02 PM
>>Subject: RE: Fresh Water Mussels
>>
>>Hello Arlos,
>>
>>I am not sure of the species but the people at=20
>>www.livingmachines.com
>>or www.oceanarks.org may be able to help you. I=
=20
>>have always been
>>fascinated with John Todd's "living machines".
>>
>>hope this helps,
>>Mark
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: aquaponics-request 'at' townsqr.com=20
>>[mailto:aquaponics-request 'at' townsqr.com]On Behalf Of Arlos
>>Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 12:03 AM
>>To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
>>Subject: Fresh Water Mussels
>>
>>Anyone have any experience using fresh water mussels for water quality=20
>>control? If so what species?
>>
>>Arlos
F. Carl Uhland, DVM
Facult=E9 M=E9decine V=E9t=E9rinaire
University of Montreal
3200 rue Sicotte
Saint-Hyacinthe (Qu=E9bec) J2S 7C6
T=E9l: 450-773-8521; ext: 8317
Fax: 450-778-8116
Carl.F.Uhland 'at' umontreal.ca
| Message 16
Subject: Zebra Mussels (Arlos)
From: "Wells, Mark CAR"
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 17:36:51 -0400
Arlos,
I found this short page about researchers in Illinois using zebra mussels
to treat swine waste. I thought you might be interested. I know zebra
mussels are a problem in many areas but it seems that can be useful
if handled correctly and contained.
http://www.asas.uiuc.edu/midwestern/press/zebra.html
Well, I had better get back to work :)
Mark
| Message 17
Subject: Re: Google Search: university of california, berkeley, algae, hydrogen
From: kris book
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 16:39:59 -0600
> Before you kill any algae, you might want to take a look at this.
>
> kris
zetatalk.com/energy/tengy14r.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
| Message 18
Subject: Re: Zebra Mussels (Arlos)
From: "Arlos"
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 19:00:19 -0700
Mark,
Great article. Importation of non native species is certainly a huge
problem for everyone. We have the Chinese Mitten Crab that has come in on
container ships from Asia who discharged ballast water. Most likely the crab
was in pelagic form and found the perfect environment to thrive. Unlike the
problem with Zebra Mussels which choke intake piping and I imagine canal
locks and head gate equipment. the Mitten Crab burrows into levee walls
which are causing leaks and some structural failure to them. The state
(California) has even adopted fishing regulations for them, which is to say,
" If you can't beat 'em, Eat em"
I would like to find some (mussels). I
haven't seen to many successful attempts (cost effective) in cleaning animal
waste on a large scale. As everyone here knows the additional cost of yet
another required treatment can break an endeavor but the use of nature can
reduce the cost of chemical treatment which often presents another problem
in itself. Thanks for the invaluable help
Arlos
-----Original Message-----
From: Wells, Mark CAR
To: 'aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com'
Date: Friday, June 29, 2001 2:37 PM
Subject: Zebra Mussels (Arlos)
>Arlos,
>
>I found this short page about researchers in Illinois using zebra mussels
>to treat swine waste. I thought you might be interested. I know zebra
>mussels are a problem in many areas but it seems that can be useful
>if handled correctly and contained.
>
>http://www.asas.uiuc.edu/midwestern/press/zebra.html
>
>Well, I had better get back to work :)
>
>Mark
>
| Message 19
Subject: Re: Fresh Water Mussels
From: "Arlos"
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 19:06:25 -0700
Carl,
Thanks, I was curious how the call for mussels might be responded too. A
little more research on my part might stumble across the pelagic size or
parasitic stage to prevent a catastrophic fish kill. Maybe a few "Sacra-
fishal" specimens in the mussel tank might help and appropriate filter
screen to keep the small pelagic form penned in?
Arlos
-----Original Message-----
From: F.Carl Uhland
To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
Date: Friday, June 29, 2001 1:53 PM
Subject: Re: Fresh Water Mussels
Hello all,
One thing you must keep in mind with fresh water mussels, is that part of
their life cycle is parasitic on fish (at least with the family
Unionidae). The glochidia released by mature mussels can cause severe
damage to a fishes gills. If it desired to place the mussels in a closed
recirculation type system with the fish stocks, appropriate preventive
measures should be taken to prevent transmission. Perhaps a filter of some
sort before reintegration into the main water flow, or utilising a biobog
after the mussels??
Carl
At 08:02 29-06-01 -0700, you wrote:
>Mark,
>
> Thanks for the two web sites. I've been a promoter of this alternative
> technology for nearly 20 years. I know this gets a bit off topic to the
> group but
If you consider it was Thomas Jefferson that gave us the
> septic tank as we know it today, it has changed little since then. The
> idea that the earth will filter what ever we put in it needs to be
> critically thought out. Plants and animals take up nutrients via solar
> energy. This all takes place on the surface, more or less. Using
> hydroponics we essentially are achieving the same value added goal of
> reuse of resource. Anyone living around a lake, stream or river knows
> that septic leaching into the ground water will find its way into that
> body of water. Summer blooms of algae have increased over the years and
> water quality has decreased. This is especially true of animal husbandry
> operations.I'm going to be in Idaho in a few weeks and will take
> a series of photos at a dairy operation just above a lake and you can
> see the algae bloom as a stream in the water. My original request for
> mussel info was two fold. They do filter organisms and nutrients at rates
> of up to 20+ liters per day from the water column. This makes them
> excellent markers of environmental change and livling filters. Under
> optimal conditions, that is without predation and correct water and
> nutritional needs met, they can live well over 100 years. If I can find a
> source appropriate to my region, I'm hoping to add a side stream and
> monitor the water quality. I use a UV system for sterilization as a final
> phase for treatment as to not inadvertently release a non native species.
> Working in the Caribbean in particular, commissioning desalination
> plants, the waste treatment at resorts was next to non existent.
> Chlorinated more or less primary treatment of waste was usual discharged
> via a pipe line to an outer reef and the decay of reefs are in part due
> to human impact.I had often thought using plants and animals to break
> down waste and recover the water would lessen the need to use more energy
> to produce water for surface discharge like landscaping needs. If you
> only knew the costs for producing desalinated water for a golf course.> On Virgin Gorda the demand on water was so great that potable water was
> tankard in from PR. The crown had a choke hold on power and at the time,
> use of solar photo voltaic was not permitted which made importation of
> diesel fuel another environmental concern. The brine stream is of great
> concern as studies show little harm to reef systems and breeding grounds
> for species like Mullet but I have my doubts about this.The seasonal
> demand had placed such a strain on water resources that the use of
> sisterns and ground water was over run years ago. A small private resort
> called Little Dix built by the Rockefellers plus the area known as
> Spanish town has a water plant built from a distiller salvaged from a WW2
> ship.One last note
. studies have shown Mexico has 60% less available
> potable water than 20 years ago. This puts everyone on this board at the
> cutting edge of research for water reuse. The best observations and use
> more often come from those working around this daily and not from
> engineers like myself or scientists and academics. This still brings up
> the point, I'm still in need of info from anyone using mussels or who
> have lived around them and know their benefit to a body of water. Nature
> likes to keep it simple without our constant need to meddle in her
> affairs. Its amazing what we can learn from it.>
>Arlos
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Mark Allen Wells <mawells 'at' bpsinet.com>
>>To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
>><aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com>
>>Date: Thursday, June 28, 2001 10:02 PM
>>Subject: RE: Fresh Water Mussels
>>
>>Hello Arlos,
>>
>>I am not sure of the species but the people at
>>www.livingmachines.com
>>or www.oceanarks.org may be able to help you. I
>>have always been
>>fascinated with John Todd's "living machines".
>>
>>hope this helps,
>>Mark
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: aquaponics-request 'at' townsqr.com
>>[mailto:aquaponics-request 'at' townsqr.com]On Behalf Of Arlos
>>Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 12:03 AM
>>To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
>>Subject: Fresh Water Mussels
>>
>>Anyone have any experience using fresh water mussels for water quality
>>control? If so what species?
>>
>>Arlos
F. Carl Uhland, DVM
Faculté Médecine Vétérinaire
University of Montreal
3200 rue Sicotte
Saint-Hyacinthe (Québec) J2S 7C6
Tél: 450-773-8521; ext: 8317
Fax: 450-778-8116
Carl.F.Uhland 'at' umontreal.ca
| Message 20
Subject: Re: scales
From: Allen
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 21:13:32 -0500
For anyone who does not need an electronic scale for trade, Forestry
Suppliers has an Ohaus CS 2000 "Portable Standard" Balance on sale for
$85 (list is $105). It has a 2,000 g/4 lb 6.5 oz capacity.
http://www.forestry-suppliers.com
Allen Sylvester
| Message 21
Subject: Re: Algae basics and swimming hole.From: "Arlos"
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 19:19:55 -0700
Franklin,
At Clear Lake, CA a harvesting program is proposed to help clean the lake.
Over the years its gone from pristine to green. I'll do a little inquiry
from a friend that lives there and get back to your response. In my area of
Ca, back in the 70's a local company was formed to raise Spirolina algae. I
know they made millions with it. I'll send links over the week end. I know
trying to maintain a mono culture would require some serious controls in
place to keep invasive strains out. Some blue green algaes can be toxic to
livestock.
Arlos
-----Original Message-----
From: Franklin Wayne Poley
To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
Date: Friday, June 29, 2001 10:43 AM
Subject: Re: Algae basics and swimming hole.
>Is algae a serious contender as a staple food source?
>FWP
>
>
|
