Aquaponics Digest - Sun 07/08/01

Message   1: Re: tomato vibrator/scales
             from "STEVE SPRING" 

Message   2: cost of conference
             from "STEVE SPRING" 

Message   3: Re: Fish injuries Sharks
             from "STEVE SPRING" 

Message   4: Re: Inkjet Refill Kit
             from "STEVE SPRING" 

Message   5: Re: tomato vibrator/scales
             from "STEVE SPRING" 

Message   6: Re: cost of conference
             from "gutierrez-lagatta"


Message   7: Re: Floor Insulation
             from "Leslie Ter Morshuizen"


Message   8: Re: tomato vibrator/scales
             from "bennett" 

Message   9: Re: Fish Scrape injuries => Harvesting
methods
             from fishmanbruce 'at' webtv.net (Bruce
Schreiber)

Message  10: Re: Fish Scrape injuries
             from "Lloyd R. Prentice" 

Message  11: Re: Floor Insulation
             from fishmanbruce 'at' webtv.net (Bruce
Schreiber)

Message  12: RE: Inkjet Refill Kit
             from "billevans" 

Message  13: Re: tomato vibrator/scales
             from marc 'at' aculink.net

Message  14: Re: Fish injuries Sharks
             from "Arlos"


Message  15: Re: Fish Scrape injuries
             from "Arlos"


Message  16: Re: tomato vibrator/scales
             from fishmanbruce 'at' webtv.net (Bruce
Schreiber)

Message  17: Re: Fish Scrape injuries => Harvesting
methods
             from dreadlox 'at' cwjamaica.com

Message  18: Re: tomato vibrator/scales
             from "Arlos"


Message  19: Re: Fish Scrape injuries => Harvesting
methods
             from fishmanbruce 'at' webtv.net (Bruce
Schreiber)

Message  20: Re: Floor Insulation
             from "Leslie Ter Morshuizen"


Message  21: RE:  homemade insulation
             from "billevans" 

Message  22: Re: Floor Insulation
             from "Chris Jeppesen" 

Message  23: Phase Change Materials for Cooling, Heat
Storage, etc.
             from "TGTX" 

Message  24: Harvesting fish
             from dreadlox 'at' cwjamaica.com

Message  25: Re: Fish Scrape injuries
             from "Lloyd R. Prentice" 

Message  26: I built a solar liquid piston pump!
             from Carolyn Hoagland


Message  27: Re: I built a solar liquid piston pump!
             from "TGTX" 

Message  28: Reply to - Re: I built a solar liquid
piston pump!
             from "David Atkinson"


Message  29: Re: tomato vibrator/scales
             from "Steven Medlock" 

Message  30: I see your hair igniter and raise some
space power
             from kris book 

Message  31: Re: I built a solar liquid piston pump!
             from marc 'at' aculink.net

Message  32: 
             from kris book 

Message  33: Re: tomato vibrator/scales
             from "bennett" 

Message  34: Re: Fish Scrape injuries
             from "Arlos"


Message  35: Admin stuff -- subjects, cut and paste,
etc.   was Re: Fish
  Scrape injuries
             from S & S Aqua Farm


Message  36: Re: Admin stuff
             from Al Thompson


| Message 1

Subject: Re: tomato vibrator/scales
From:    "STEVE SPRING" 
Date:    Sun, 8 Jul 2001 00:34:29 -0500

Wow Ted,

I'm surprised at this message from a thrifty soul such
as yourself.

(I don't mean to step on any toes here.) This is one
of the problems I had
with Mike Sipe. He sent me some "makeshift" plans for
building a concrete
fish tank. Cost less than $1,000 for a huge system. He
is in Fla. where
there is a lot of cheap labor. You talk about pouring
concrete again.
(Concrete, labor, etc. must be incredibly cheap down
South.) (Fla. has
illegal Cubans, etc. and Texas has illegal
Mexicans

.thus "cheap
labor")

If you start talking concrete slabs in the North, you
are talking "bunch of
$".  I mean, Subway, Burger King & Popeyes are paying
$10.00/hr. There is a
tremendous shortage of labor here in the North.

I don't want to sound pious or anything like that, but
if I went back South,
I would be making $10/$14/hr. Here, I make between
$23-$40/hr. With the
exception of gasoline, the cost of living is about the
same.

So as you can see, Red & I are in the same boat as to
doing concrete slabs.
Yes, a concrete slab will last a lifetime, but the
styroboards I speak of
will last a "half-lifetime". As Clint Eastwood said,
"Come on boy, you want
to live forever!"

Just my thoughts

.Steve

----- Original Message -----
From: "TGTX" 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 2:27 PM
Subject: Re: tomato vibrator/scales

I know that styroboard would be an overall better
insulator but at 60-70
cents/sq.ft, could you come up with something
cheaper?,

What if you poured a concrete-light floor ontop of an
existing slab
.maybe
bury your recirc. pipes in the concrete-light top
floor layer

.i.e.,
could you just pour a layer of concrete plus perlite
ontop the existing
slab??

Might be cheaper than styroboard, and
still give you some cost
effective insulation.??

Just a thought

Although the labor to do a pour vs
styroboard
installation, might be cost prohibitive.
Ted

----- Original Message -----
From: Steven Medlock 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 2:22 PM
Subject: Re: tomato vibrator/scales

> I just priced that stuff  20 bucks a sheet. ouch
that is a lot of board
for
> 1500sq feet.  Might have to do it though.  That
concrete gets cold. I
think
> I will put that foam board on the walls though it is
9 or so a sheet for 2
> inch, pluss another layer of plastic over the house
just to seal it up.
> Looks like an expensive winter.
> Red
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: STEVE SPRING 
> To: 
> Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 12:46 PM
> Subject: Re: tomato vibrator/scales
>
>
> > No Red,
> >
> > It isn't foam. It is called styroboard. It is
available in 4x8 sheets.
> Works
> > well.
> >
> > Later

.Steve
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Steven Medlock" 
> > To: 
> > Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 11:04 AM
> > Subject: Re: tomato vibrator/scales
> >
> >
> > Steve,
> >   You put foam on the floor?  Not a bad Idea.  My
house is quite a bit
> > bigger than that, real expensive.  I am thinking
about using the foam on
> the
> > north wall and sealing that in also.  The south
wall is still a
question.
> I
> > thought about using that corigated clear plastic
as another layer under
> the
> > plastic.  I kick my self for not running hot water
through the concrete.
> Oh
> > well live and learn. Either one of these or going
to be expensive. I am
> > either going to go with a wood furnace or gas both
are $800 or so  The
gas
> > then has the expense of fuel and tank, but very
convienent.  I need
> > insolation first.  I TO WILL SELL TOMATOS IN THE
WINTER. I missed it
last
> > winter.
> > Red
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: STEVE SPRING 
> > To: 
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2001 11:31 AM
> > Subject: Re: tomato vibrator/scales
> >
> >
> > > Hi Red,
> > >
> > > You are in "more or less" my locale
.a little
further south.
> > >
> > > I was concerned when you said that you had a
concrete slab covered
with
> > > plastic. "MAN, THAT'S COLD!!"
> > >
> > > I covered my slab in the "farm" with styroboard.
NOT CHEAP! But,
neither
> > is
> > > a system that doesn't work because it is too
cold. These guys are
about
> > > $15/sheet for a 4 X 8 sheet (for the good
stuff). My "farm" maintains
> > apprx.
> > > 80F even when it is below 0 outside with the
only heatsource being 2
> > > 450-watt growlights.
> > >
> > > I will be trying to do the same as you are this
winter. I have a hoop
> > > greenhouse with no insulation. I have a pallet
floor down now. I will
be
> > > putting down styroboard and then covering this
with plywood

on top
of
> > the
> > > pallets. (Again, NOT CHEAP!)  For supplemental
heat, I will be running
a
> > > forced air duct from the "farm" (80F) to the
greenhouse (only a few
> feet)
> > > away. This will be used for heat when my
growlights (2-1000 watt HPS)
> turn
> > > off. My greenhouse is only 20 X 12 & I hope this
will be sufficient
for
> > > winter operation. I will be doing another couple
of smaller things
too.
> I
> > > WILL GROW TOMATOS IN THE WINTER!!!
> > >
> > > Later my friend

Steve
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Steven Medlock" 
> > > To: 
> > > Sent: Monday, July 02, 2001 6:56 PM
> > > Subject: Re: tomato vibrator/scales
> > >
> > >
> > > Steve,
> > >   I actually was operational last fall, but
underestimated my heating
> > system
> > > thought I could do it with a wood furnace. I
didn't spend the money  I
> > > should have.  Thinking about gas. The prices
have me worried.  I am in
> > > Missouri  hour west of St. Louis.
> > > Red
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: STEVE SPRING 
> > > To: 
> > > Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2001 12:40 AM
> > > Subject: Re: tomato vibrator/scales
> > >
> > >
> > > > Hi Red,
> > > >
> > > > Sorry, I haven't been down here for a few
days. Been busy (again!).
> > > >
> > > > Very nice size greenhouse. I'm envious. Maybe
next year.
> > > >
> > > > Ref: "plastic covering a concrete
floor

heat is going to be my
next
> > > > problem"

Heat

presense of or lack of?
Where are you located?
> > > >
> > > > Later

.Steve
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Steven Medlock" 
> > > > To: 
> > > > Sent: Friday, June 29, 2001 12:36 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: tomato vibrator/scales
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I am using the S&S System in a 30x48' green
house.   Just plastic
> > covered
> > > > concrete floor.   Heat is going to be my next
problem  I don't have
> the
> > > > extreme thichness of the S&S greenhouse walls.
> > > > Red
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: STEVE SPRING 
> > > > To: 
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 11:54 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: tomato vibrator/scales
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Hey Red,
> > > > >
> > > > > What kind of Greenhouse do you have?
> > > > >
> > > > > SS
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Steven Medlock" 
> > > > > To: 
> > > > > Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2001 7:44 PM
> > > > > Subject: Re: tomato vibrator/scales
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Just for info, I have ordered the bumble
bees. I will let everyone
> > know
> > > > how
> > > > > it goes.  There was no way I could pollinate
200 plants by hand.
I
> am
> > > > open
> > > > > to any other options. the bees are
expensive. But to the amount of
> > > blooms
> > > > I
> > > > > am loosing worth it.  I have started with 30
plants way ahead of
the
> > > other
> > > > > 200 or so glad I did that, now I can work
through all my problems.
> > > Lesson
> > > > > learned.
> > > > > Red
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: STEVE SPRING 
> > > > > To: 
> > > > > Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2001 12:24 AM
> > > > > Subject: tomato vibrator/scales
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > I have been using and suggesting the use
of a tomato vibrator
from
> > > > > > www.hydro-gardens.com.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > See picture below:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 
http://www.hydro-gardens.com/growsup1.htm#pollinator
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It is a very good vibrator and cost only
$14.95.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I. Red, Alan and other subscribers have
more than a "few" tomato
> > > plants.
> > > > > We
> > > > > > would like to know if anyone has any info
on a more commercial
> > tomato
> > > > > > pollinator.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Also, I would like info on a scale that
weighs in oz's. Anyone
out
> > > there
> > > > > got
> > > > > > got any info on this. Everyone I look at
cost $400+.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Would appreciate any input.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks

Steve
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>

| Message 2

Subject: cost of conference
From:    "STEVE SPRING" 
Date:    Sun, 8 Jul 2001 00:51:13 -0500

Hi Gang,

Bruce just emailed me and asked about the cost of the
Aquaponics Conference.
It is $175 per person/$75 for spouse. Very
inexpensive. CropKing's
conferences are much, much more. Besides that, you get
to meet ME!! WHAT A
DEAL!

Besides that, all kidding aside, there are some
wonderful speakers with lots
of ($) experience.

See Ya'll in NC!!http://www.greatsmokies.com/index.htm

By the way, I plan on swinging through Alapaha, Ga. on
my way home to meet
my friend Ken. 
http://www.kens-fishfarm.com/georgia_giant.asp

If anyone would like to accompany us, that would be
great!

Later

.Steve

| Message 3

Subject: Re: Fish injuries Sharks
From:    "STEVE SPRING" 
Date:    Sun, 8 Jul 2001 00:54:55 -0500

Hey Arlos,

Join us in NC!! Should be fun!!

Steve

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Arlos" 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 5:30 PM
Subject: Re: Fish injuries Sharks

Kris,

  I hate to plant one last fear, sharks do live in
Fresh water. Lake
Nicaragua has a lot of them.
  As to Viet Nam, welcome home

USN GM3 Brown Water Navy, Mekong Delta '71-'72

Arlos
-----Original Message-----
From: kris book 
To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com 
Cc: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com 
Date: Saturday, July 07, 2001 11:03 AM
Subject: Re: Fish injuries Sharks

>Bruce,
>
>It took me 51 years to find someone that has only one
real fear just like
>mine. As a teenager my favorite pastime was predator
hunting, you know,
>sitting in the dark and calling animals in with a
sound similar to a
>dying rabbit. Well one night while sitting on the
edge of a cliff above a
>game trail, I turned around because something made
the hair on the back
>of my neck stand up. Six inches from my face were the
two biggest yellow
>eyes I have ever seen. I slowly changed the shotgun
to my left hand, drew
>a bead and found out why you don't fire a shotgun at
something that is
>about a foot away. I had cougar blood all over me.
Now, I won't say I
>wasn't scared but, I never lost my grip.
>
>In my year in Viet Nam, I never lost my ability to
react under fire. But,
>I'll never forget that morning that a shark took a
bite out of my buddy's
>surfboard. I swear, I shook for a week and I still
don't like swimming in
>the ocean. Thank God they don't live in fresh water!
>
>kris
>

| Message 4

Subject: Re: Inkjet Refill Kit
From:    "STEVE SPRING" 
Date:    Sun, 8 Jul 2001 01:01:06 -0500

Hi Bill,

This is the first time that I have tried this. I still
haven't looked up
your website, but I will. If it is better deal, (which
it seems to be)  then
I'm sure that all of us will be grateful. I only sent
this out to the list
to help all of us.

ANOTHER WONDER OF THIS LIST! WOW, WE'RE GOOD!!

See ya in NC

Steve

----- Original Message -----
From: "billevans" 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 4:45 PM
Subject: RE: Inkjet Refill Kit

You get about 4 times the ink over the infomershal
deal-
http://www.nujet.com/refillp.html
-

| Message 5

Subject: Re: tomato vibrator/scales
From:    "STEVE SPRING" 
Date:    Sun, 8 Jul 2001 01:04:37 -0500

What gives with the Boric Acid??

Steve

----- Original Message -----
From: 
To: 
Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 12:04 AM
Subject: Re: tomato vibrator/scales

How about shredded newspaper treated with Boric Acid.?

Marc

STEVE SPRING wrote:
>
> HOLY MOLLY RED!!
>
> That stuff is expensive in your neck of the woods! I
did my system,
although
> expensive, was less than what you are quoting.
Talking about walls, I'm
> lost. There is a better way to do this. Meet me in
NC in November and we
can
> go over this. See my general posting as to the site
of the aquaponics
> convention. I'm really, REALLY, looking forward to
this.
>
> Later my friend

Steve

| Message 6

Subject: Re: cost of conference
From:    "gutierrez-lagatta"

Date:    Sun, 8 Jul 2001 02:39:33 -0500

I believe Alapaha, GA is also home to Atlas
Greenhouses, one of the
biggies in greenhouse manufacturing.  I don't know if
they have a
showroom but it may be worth an inquiry.

Adriana

> By the way, I plan on swinging through Alapaha, Ga.
on my way home
to meet
> my friend Ken. 
http://www.kens-fishfarm.com/georgia_giant.asp

| Message 7

Subject: Re: Floor Insulation
From:    "Leslie Ter Morshuizen"

Date:    Sun, 8 Jul 2001 08:00:42 +0200

Hi Bruce

Why should the heat move laterally and not down?
Surely the insulation
would have to be below the floor to prevent vertical
heat loss?

Regards,
                Leslie

----- Original Message -----
From: Bruce Schreiber 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, 07 July, 2001 11:51 PM
Subject: Re: Floor Insulation

> Steven Medlock  if you dig a trench around your
green house and heavily
> insulate it you should than have a big heat
sink/floor combination that
> would  save heat to radiate back into the green
house on cold nights
> .Just a Theoretical Aquaponists thought
>                       Bruce
>

| Message 8

Subject: Re: tomato vibrator/scales
From:    "bennett" 
Date:    Sun, 8 Jul 2001 09:36:54 -0400

>I would be making $10/$14/hr. Here, I make between
$23-$40/hr. With the
>exception of gasoline, the cost of living is about
the same.
>
Please remind me

.where is it that you live?  What
kind of jobs pay $40
an hour?
Whew!
    D. in Appalachia

| Message 9

Subject: Re: Fish Scrape injuries => Harvesting
methods
From:    fishmanbruce 'at' webtv.net (Bruce Schreiber)
Date:    Sun, 8 Jul 2001 09:17:11 -0500 (CDT)

Mike 
We use hydraulics to run a 6ft high X 5ft wide real
.If you used long
cables attached to a pare of auto bumpers and had some
one that you
trust moving at a slow speed while you and another man
man the net ends
keeping it straight and on the bottom you should do
fine.
               Bruce

| Message 10

Subject: Re: Fish Scrape injuries
From:    "Lloyd R. Prentice" 
Date:    Sun, 08 Jul 2001 10:26:12 -0400

Hi Arlos,

Arlos wrote:

>  We
> just had a good size shark (15 ft+-) about a month
ago in 8 feet of water
> right off the shore (about 50 feet) knock an adult
california Sea Lion clean
> out off the water and bit it clean in two. This was
in front of a beach full
> of tourists.  I think that would be the ultimate
fish sting.

Was this, by chance, in the Lover's Point/Pacific
Grove area of Montery Bay?

I spent many many many hours of my youth snorkeling
and spearfishing in and
around Monerey, Pacific Grove and Carmel. Had two
encounters: one blue off
Cannery Row and one very large white several hundred
yards off Pacific Grove. I
was much more impressed by it's girth than it's
length. At the same time that I
was staring eye-ball to eye-ball with my White, my
friend Bob Steele was
eyeballing another about 1/4 a mile away and folks on
the beach were watching a
large dorsal fin glide by just off shore. Fortunately
they weren't biting that
day.

The year before I started diving, a fellow named Barry
Wilson was killed by a
white just a few feet off Lover's Point. He'd dropped
a knife climbing up on the
rocks and had jumped back in to get it. Another friend
of mine helped pull him
in.

As I'm sure you know, they've been researching Great
Whites further up the coast
off (senior moment) the point where all the elephant
seals hang out. They just
love to stike at sea lion-shaped objects floating on
the surface. I think this
is what protected me all the years that I was diving:
I was too skinny.

Best wishes,

Lloyd R. Prentice

>
>
> Arlos
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dreadlox 'at' cwjamaica.com

> To: tilapia 'at' egroups.com ;
aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
> 
> Date: Friday, July 06, 2001 12:23 PM
> Subject: Fish Scrape injuries
>
> >Has anyone any ideas or experiences with infections
from fish fin
> >jabs/sticks/pokes that they could share?
> >
> >After handling a lot of fish last week and getting
stabbed a few times
> >Ive now had pain in my hand-joints for a week. Im
not sure if this is
> >from the seine net, or from a flu-like bug going
around, but I do recall
> >a news article in Canada re infections caused by
fish store owners
> >getting stabbed by fish fins, can anyone share some
thoughts please??
> >
> >I think this aspect of job safety may be an
interesting discussion
> >point??!
> >
> >Thanks,
> >
> >Mike
> >JAMAICA
> >

| Message 11

Subject: Re: Floor Insulation
From:    fishmanbruce 'at' webtv.net (Bruce Schreiber)
Date:    Sun, 8 Jul 2001 09:32:02 -0500 (CDT)

Leslie  the insulatin is to keep the cold out off the
soil down to the
frost line so you can use the more or less year around
70 degree sub
soil temps. and add to it with your green house temps.
creating a heat
sink that keeps your green house warm all night or am
I thinking wrong
                         Bruce

| Message 12

Subject: RE: Inkjet Refill Kit
From:    "billevans" 
Date:    Sun, 8 Jul 2001 07:36:04 -0700

Hi Bill,

>>>>This is the first time that I have tried this. I
still haven't looked up
your website,

 I have no site
. just think Nu-Jet is a cool
vendor,,, as welll aS
Nutribiotic, of course!
 Not able to make the conference, homebound to our
place here in poway, CA
bille

| Message 13

Subject: Re: tomato vibrator/scales
From:    marc 'at' aculink.net
Date:    Sun, 08 Jul 2001 08:37:38 -0600

Recycled newspaper treated with boron product is a
respectable insulation with published properties
superior to
almost all other insulation materials and has fire
retardant
properties. You can make it yourself or buy it.

Moisture barriers are needed as with fiberglass.

Some various web sites concerning it:

http://www.ase.org/educators/lessons/insulate.htm

This one gives compare and contrast regarding various
factors between the different types of insulation.
Very
Informative: (Note you'll have to cut and paste into
your
address line since the address is so long)

http://dea.human.cornell.edu/DEA/extension/Notes/HousingFS/insul%20k%20up-html/insulation%20Check-Up.html

Semi relevant - Somewhat off topic but still about
insulation - interesting!

http://www.ki4u.com/free_book/s60p780.htm

Marc

STEVE SPRING wrote:
> 
> What gives with the Boric Acid??
> 
> Steve

| Message 14

Subject: Re: Fish injuries Sharks
From:    "Arlos" 
Date:    Sun, 8 Jul 2001 07:58:12 -0700

Steve,

  I'm planning on attending. I received the info pack
in the mail on Friday.
My wife is trying to persuade me to drive back for a
little R&R road trip.

Arlos
-----Original Message-----
From: STEVE SPRING 
To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com 
Date: Saturday, July 07, 2001 10:56 PM
Subject: Re: Fish injuries Sharks

>Hey Arlos,
>
>Join us in NC!! Should be fun!!
>
>Steve
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Arlos" 
>To: 
>Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 5:30 PM
>Subject: Re: Fish injuries Sharks
>
>
>Kris,
>
>  I hate to plant one last fear, sharks do live in
Fresh water. Lake
>Nicaragua has a lot of them.
>  As to Viet Nam, welcome home

>
>USN GM3 Brown Water Navy, Mekong Delta '71-'72
>
>Arlos
>-----Original Message-----
>From: kris book 
>To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com 
>Cc: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com 
>Date: Saturday, July 07, 2001 11:03 AM
>Subject: Re: Fish injuries Sharks
>
>
>>Bruce,
>>
>>It took me 51 years to find someone that has only
one real fear just like
>>mine. As a teenager my favorite pastime was predator
hunting, you know,
>>sitting in the dark and calling animals in with a
sound similar to a
>>dying rabbit. Well one night while sitting on the
edge of a cliff above a
>>game trail, I turned around because something made
the hair on the back
>>of my neck stand up. Six inches from my face were
the two biggest yellow
>>eyes I have ever seen. I slowly changed the shotgun
to my left hand, drew
>>a bead and found out why you don't fire a shotgun at
something that is
>>about a foot away. I had cougar blood all over me.
Now, I won't say I
>>wasn't scared but, I never lost my grip.
>>
>>In my year in Viet Nam, I never lost my ability to
react under fire. But,
>>I'll never forget that morning that a shark took a
bite out of my buddy's
>>surfboard. I swear, I shook for a week and I still
don't like swimming in
>>the ocean. Thank God they don't live in fresh water!
>>
>>kris
>>
>
>
>

| Message 15

Subject: Re: Fish Scrape injuries
From:    "Arlos" 
Date:    Sun, 8 Jul 2001 08:33:10 -0700

Lloyd,

  The shark and seal show was at Capitola Beach just
south of the wharf. The
place you might be thinking about where the elephant
seals mate is Ano Nuevo
just north of Pidgeon Point. I live just a minute up
from the beach at Rio
Del Mar in Aptos where the most recent siteing
occurred. I've only seen one
shark diving off the Monterey  coast line at Point
Lobos. Living on Catalina
Island in '74 I had a white cruise right below me in
the kelp canopy in
about 25' of water. I could have touched it, it was
that close.
  Sharks are on a serious decline world wide do to
problems with BI catch
and over fishing. I think Peter Benchly deeply regrets
the bad press he
unleashed on sharks. Granted they will kill but are
not the cold blooded
hunters movies have made them out to be.
   Sharks generally attack vertically from below which
is why most fish are
dark on top and light on the bottom to blend in with a
sunlit surface when
viewed from below. When seen from the top, the darker
anterior side blends
with eight er the bottom or darker water. Surfers and
seals are just fast
food to larger predators. In about '88 when I was
still a NAUI instructor we
had a group on students in a zodiac for their first
boat dive. Seeing what
we thought was a gray whale calf, we beelined it to
free dive with the gray
whales. Turned out to be a bloated male elephant seal
carcass with the
biggest single bite I've ever seen from a shark. The
shark was estimated to
have been about 18'. Every winter a family of tourists
huddled together on
the rocks for a Kodak moment are swept off by a rogue
wave and never seen
again. Sharks may have developed a taste for curry.
Just amazes me that
signs are ignored and yet people still go over the
barriers to scamper over
the rocks to be photographed. You'd think with
PHOTOSHOP, someone would make
this a little more sensible. When we get Tsunami
warnings, people still
flock to the beach to watch them. Well nature does
have an interesting way
to insure the strength of the gene pool. its just too
bad the lifeguard is
not on duty.

Arlos
-----Original Message-----
From: Lloyd R. Prentice 
To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com 
Date: Sunday, July 08, 2001 7:28 AM
Subject: Re: Fish Scrape injuries

>Hi Arlos,
>
>Arlos wrote:
>
>>  We
>> just had a good size shark (15 ft+-) about a month
ago in 8 feet of water
>> right off the shore (about 50 feet) knock an adult
california Sea Lion
clean
>> out off the water and bit it clean in two. This was
in front of a beach
full
>> of tourists.  I think that would be the ultimate
fish sting.
>
>Was this, by chance, in the Lover's Point/Pacific
Grove area of Montery
Bay?
>
>I spent many many many hours of my youth snorkeling
and spearfishing in and
>around Monerey, Pacific Grove and Carmel. Had two
encounters: one blue off
>Cannery Row and one very large white several hundred
yards off Pacific
Grove. I
>was much more impressed by it's girth than it's
length. At the same time
that I
>was staring eye-ball to eye-ball with my White, my
friend Bob Steele was
>eyeballing another about 1/4 a mile away and folks on
the beach were
watching a
>large dorsal fin glide by just off shore. Fortunately
they weren't biting
that
>day.
>
>The year before I started diving, a fellow named
Barry Wilson was killed by
a
>white just a few feet off Lover's Point. He'd dropped
a knife climbing up
on the
>rocks and had jumped back in to get it. Another
friend of mine helped pull
him
>in.
>
>As I'm sure you know, they've been researching Great
Whites further up the
coast
>off (senior moment) the point where all the elephant
seals hang out. They
just
>love to stike at sea lion-shaped objects floating on
the surface. I think
this
>is what protected me all the years that I was diving:
I was too skinny.
>
>Best wishes,
>
>Lloyd R. Prentice
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>>
>> Arlos
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: dreadlox 'at' cwjamaica.com

>> To: tilapia 'at' egroups.com ;
aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
>> 
>> Date: Friday, July 06, 2001 12:23 PM
>> Subject: Fish Scrape injuries
>>
>> >Has anyone any ideas or experiences with
infections from fish fin
>> >jabs/sticks/pokes that they could share?
>> >
>> >After handling a lot of fish last week and getting
stabbed a few times
>> >Ive now had pain in my hand-joints for a week. Im
not sure if this is
>> >from the seine net, or from a flu-like bug going
around, but I do recall
>> >a news article in Canada re infections caused by
fish store owners
>> >getting stabbed by fish fins, can anyone share
some thoughts please??
>> >
>> >I think this aspect of job safety may be an
interesting discussion
>> >point??!
>> >
>> >Thanks,
>> >
>> >Mike
>> >JAMAICA
>> >
>
>

| Message 16

Subject: Re: tomato vibrator/scales
From:    fishmanbruce 'at' webtv.net (Bruce Schreiber)
Date:    Sun, 8 Jul 2001 11:02:26 -0500 (CDT)

Bennett  Steve lives in Wisconsin and he is a
Respitory Therapist  He is
right about wages being higher up here in the midwest
Mcdonalds pay
starts out at $10 per hr.
                 Bruce

| Message 17

Subject: Re: Fish Scrape injuries => Harvesting
methods
From:    dreadlox 'at' cwjamaica.com
Date:    Sun, 08 Jul 2001 11:19:17 -0700

I didnt mention but, this was done on a diked pond

so space is of
essence Bruce! But Im slated to go to one of the
largest dumpsites soon
so if you know of any "dumpster tricks" please let me
know soon. Im
amazed at all you seem to have done in life
. :> Hats
off to you
.so 
maybe in the mix you were a team member in Junkyard
wars??

Keep smiling.
Mike.

Bruce Schreiber wrote:
> 
> Mike
> We use hydraulics to run a 6ft high X 5ft wide real
.If you used long
> cables attached to a pare of auto bumpers and had
some one that you
> trust moving at a slow speed while you and another
man man the net ends
> keeping it straight and on the bottom you should do
fine.
>                Bruce

| Message 18

Subject: Re: tomato vibrator/scales
From:    "Arlos" 
Date:    Sun, 8 Jul 2001 09:17:48 -0700

Steve,

  Concrete is not one of those areas you want
unskilled labor. They are fine
as extra pair of hands to help skreet mud and tie rod
but when it comes to
setting forms and finishing concrete, the extra $$ is
well worth the
investment. To hire an unlicensed contractor and a
crew of boat people is
asking for nothing but trouble. Not calling out a
slump test for a concrete
tank is just shy of insane. Skilled concrete finishers
here on the central
Ca coast are $32 an hour.
  Speaking of wages, in my neck 'o the woods, anyone
making less than $25 an
hour is living at or below the poverty level. Median
home prices are about
$425,000. Cost of a one bedroom apt near the beach is
in the range of about
$1,400 a month. Entry level service jobs pay between
$8-$11. Yes and we have
the same invasive species problem Texas and Florida
does but impact is much
greater as social spending has taken a serious bite
out of schools, roads,
etc
 On the other end of the scale our schools can't
produce nearly enough
technical skills and we import as many as Asia, India
and Europe can spare.
It does make for a truly international place to live
but the impact of real
estate, services, water (yippee!!!), power (hense our
famous black outs) and
general quality of life.
  The demand on farming lands by an exploding
population  is going to have
an impact on our ability to feed ourselves with
nothing less than disastrous
consequences if we continue to turn our farmlands
under for new housing
tracts and endless factory outlets. No one is building
new farm lands. They
were developed due to good soil, abundant water and
market availability.
With the inability to balance ground water recharge,
provide energy through
renewable resources, grow food without resorting to
importation from the
southern hemisphere is sure sign we're in deep fish
shit. My brother in
Idaho used to laugh at me for staying here and I told
him the same will
happen there too and it has. I can't think of too many
places in the West
that haven't been impacted by California's growth.
Filling in coastal
wetlands has proved fatal to the aquifer as salinity
has increased in the
ground waters nearly 25 miles inland here.
  So I suppose the point of this rambling is why I'm
even on this board. to
find  new ways to integrate aquaculture in a high tech
environment and
remain competitive. All in all it beats the heck out
of building water and
waste treatment systems for the silicon valley.

Arlos
-----Original Message-----
From: STEVE SPRING 
To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com 
Date: Saturday, July 07, 2001 10:36 PM
Subject: Re: tomato vibrator/scales

>Wow Ted,
>
>I'm surprised at this message from a thrifty soul
such as yourself.
>
>(I don't mean to step on any toes here.) This is one
of the problems I had
>with Mike Sipe. He sent me some "makeshift" plans for
building a concrete
>fish tank. Cost less than $1,000 for a huge system.
He is in Fla. where
>there is a lot of cheap labor. You talk about pouring
concrete again.
>(Concrete, labor, etc. must be incredibly cheap down
South.) (Fla. has
>illegal Cubans, etc. and Texas has illegal
Mexicans

.thus "cheap
>labor")
>
>If you start talking concrete slabs in the North, you
are talking "bunch of
>$".  I mean, Subway, Burger King & Popeyes are paying
$10.00/hr. There is a
>tremendous shortage of labor here in the North.
>
>I don't want to sound pious or anything like that,
but if I went back
South,
>I would be making $10/$14/hr. Here, I make between
$23-$40/hr. With the
>exception of gasoline, the cost of living is about
the same.
>
>So as you can see, Red & I are in the same boat as to
doing concrete slabs.
>Yes, a concrete slab will last a lifetime, but the
styroboards I speak of
>will last a "half-lifetime". As Clint Eastwood said,
"Come on boy, you want
>to live forever!"
>
>Just my thoughts

.Steve
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "TGTX" 
>To: 
>Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 2:27 PM
>Subject: Re: tomato vibrator/scales
>
>
>I know that styroboard would be an overall better
insulator but at 60-70
>cents/sq.ft, could you come up with something
cheaper?,
>
>What if you poured a concrete-light floor ontop of an
existing slab
.maybe
>bury your recirc. pipes in the concrete-light top
floor layer

.i.e.,
>could you just pour a layer of concrete plus perlite
ontop the existing
>slab??

Might be cheaper than styroboard, and
still give you some cost
>effective insulation.??
>
>Just a thought

Although the labor to do a pour
vs styroboard
>installation, might be cost prohibitive.>
>Ted
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Steven Medlock 
>To: 
>Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 2:22 PM
>Subject: Re: tomato vibrator/scales
>
>
>> I just priced that stuff  20 bucks a sheet. ouch
that is a lot of board
>for
>> 1500sq feet.  Might have to do it though.  That
concrete gets cold. I
>think
>> I will put that foam board on the walls though it
is 9 or so a sheet for
2
>> inch, pluss another layer of plastic over the house
just to seal it up.
>> Looks like an expensive winter.
>> Red
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: STEVE SPRING 
>> To: 
>> Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 12:46 PM
>> Subject: Re: tomato vibrator/scales
>>
>>
>> > No Red,
>> >
>> > It isn't foam. It is called styroboard. It is
available in 4x8 sheets.
>> Works
>> > well.
>> >
>> > Later

.Steve
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Steven Medlock" 
>> > To: 
>> > Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 11:04 AM
>> > Subject: Re: tomato vibrator/scales
>> >
>> >
>> > Steve,
>> >   You put foam on the floor?  Not a bad Idea.  My
house is quite a bit
>> > bigger than that, real expensive.  I am thinking
about using the foam
on
>> the
>> > north wall and sealing that in also.  The south
wall is still a
>question.
>> I
>> > thought about using that corigated clear plastic
as another layer under
>> the
>> > plastic.  I kick my self for not running hot
water through the
concrete.
>> Oh
>> > well live and learn. Either one of these or going
to be expensive. I am
>> > either going to go with a wood furnace or gas
both are $800 or so  The
>gas
>> > then has the expense of fuel and tank, but very
convienent.  I need
>> > insolation first.  I TO WILL SELL TOMATOS IN THE
WINTER. I missed it
>last
>> > winter.
>> > Red
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: STEVE SPRING 
>> > To: 
>> > Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2001 11:31 AM
>> > Subject: Re: tomato vibrator/scales
>> >
>> >
>> > > Hi Red,
>> > >
>> > > You are in "more or less" my locale
.a little
further south.
>> > >
>> > > I was concerned when you said that you had a
concrete slab covered
>with
>> > > plastic. "MAN, THAT'S COLD!!"
>> > >
>> > > I covered my slab in the "farm" with
styroboard. NOT CHEAP! But,
>neither
>> > is
>> > > a system that doesn't work because it is too
cold. These guys are
>about
>> > > $15/sheet for a 4 X 8 sheet (for the good
stuff). My "farm" maintains
>> > apprx.
>> > > 80F even when it is below 0 outside with the
only heatsource being 2
>> > > 450-watt growlights.
>> > >
>> > > I will be trying to do the same as you are this
winter. I have a hoop
>> > > greenhouse with no insulation. I have a pallet
floor down now. I will
>be
>> > > putting down styroboard and then covering this
with plywood

on top
>of
>> > the
>> > > pallets. (Again, NOT CHEAP!)  For supplemental
heat, I will be
running
>a
>> > > forced air duct from the "farm" (80F) to the
greenhouse (only a few
>> feet)
>> > > away. This will be used for heat when my
growlights (2-1000 watt HPS)
>> turn
>> > > off. My greenhouse is only 20 X 12 & I hope
this will be sufficient
>for
>> > > winter operation. I will be doing another
couple of smaller things
>too.
>> I
>> > > WILL GROW TOMATOS IN THE WINTER!!!
>> > >
>> > > Later my friend

Steve
>> > >
>> > > ----- Original Message -----
>> > > From: "Steven Medlock" 
>> > > To: 
>> > > Sent: Monday, July 02, 2001 6:56 PM
>> > > Subject: Re: tomato vibrator/scales
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Steve,
>> > >   I actually was operational last fall, but
underestimated my heating
>> > system
>> > > thought I could do it with a wood furnace. I
didn't spend the money
I
>> > > should have.  Thinking about gas. The prices
have me worried.  I am
in
>> > > Missouri  hour west of St. Louis.
>> > > Red
>> > > ----- Original Message -----
>> > > From: STEVE SPRING 
>> > > To: 
>> > > Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2001 12:40 AM
>> > > Subject: Re: tomato vibrator/scales
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > > Hi Red,
>> > > >
>> > > > Sorry, I haven't been down here for a few
days. Been busy (again!).
>> > > >
>> > > > Very nice size greenhouse. I'm envious. Maybe
next year.
>> > > >
>> > > > Ref: "plastic covering a concrete
floor

heat is going to be my
>next
>> > > > problem"

Heat

presense of or lack of?
Where are you
located?
>> > > >
>> > > > Later

.Steve
>> > > >
>> > > > ----- Original Message -----
>> > > > From: "Steven Medlock" 
>> > > > To: 
>> > > > Sent: Friday, June 29, 2001 12:36 PM
>> > > > Subject: Re: tomato vibrator/scales
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > I am using the S&S System in a 30x48' green
house.   Just plastic
>> > covered
>> > > > concrete floor.   Heat is going to be my next
problem  I don't have
>> the
>> > > > extreme thichness of the S&S greenhouse
walls.
>> > > > Red
>> > > > ----- Original Message -----
>> > > > From: STEVE SPRING 
>> > > > To: 
>> > > > Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 11:54 PM
>> > > > Subject: Re: tomato vibrator/scales
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > > Hey Red,
>> > > > >
>> > > > > What kind of Greenhouse do you have?
>> > > > >
>> > > > > SS
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
>> > > > > From: "Steven Medlock" 
>> > > > > To: 
>> > > > > Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2001 7:44 PM
>> > > > > Subject: Re: tomato vibrator/scales
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Just for info, I have ordered the bumble
bees. I will let
everyone
>> > know
>> > > > how
>> > > > > it goes.  There was no way I could
pollinate 200 plants by hand.
>I
>> am
>> > > > open
>> > > > > to any other options. the bees are
expensive. But to the amount
of
>> > > blooms
>> > > > I
>> > > > > am loosing worth it.  I have started with
30 plants way ahead of
>the
>> > > other
>> > > > > 200 or so glad I did that, now I can work
through all my
problems.
>> > > Lesson
>> > > > > learned.
>> > > > > Red
>> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
>> > > > > From: STEVE SPRING 
>> > > > > To: 
>> > > > > Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2001 12:24 AM
>> > > > > Subject: tomato vibrator/scales
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > > I have been using and suggesting the use
of a tomato vibrator
>from
>> > > > > > www.hydro-gardens.com.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > See picture below:
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > 
http://www.hydro-gardens.com/growsup1.htm#pollinator
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > It is a very good vibrator and cost only
$14.95.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > I. Red, Alan and other subscribers have
more than a "few"
tomato
>> > > plants.
>> > > > > We
>> > > > > > would like to know if anyone has any info
on a more commercial
>> > tomato
>> > > > > > pollinator.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Also, I would like info on a scale that
weighs in oz's. Anyone
>out
>> > > there
>> > > > > got
>> > > > > > got any info on this. Everyone I look at
cost $400+.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Would appreciate any input.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Thanks

Steve
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
>

| Message 19

Subject: Re: Fish Scrape injuries => Harvesting
methods
From:    fishmanbruce 'at' webtv.net (Bruce Schreiber)
Date:    Sun, 8 Jul 2001 11:29:17 -0500 (CDT)

Mike how about jet skis as net pullers 
   Im not sure what you mean about dump sites but if I
see something
that i think will work I tend to grab it for reuse
                                Bruce 

| Message 20

Subject: Re: Floor Insulation
From:    "Leslie Ter Morshuizen"

Date:    Sun, 8 Jul 2001 20:00:58 +0200

Hi Bruce

Your trench would have to extend down to the depth at
which the temperature
was a constant 70°F (21°C) year-round, what depth
would this be?  Any idea
on how fast the heat  'at' travels' or  'at' is lost'
underground?  However, if your
logic holds true and the major heat loss direction is
lateral, this would
add another advantage to making the tunnel as large as
possible due to the
perimeter to area ratio.

Nice bit of lateral thought though!

Regards,
            Leslie

----- Original Message -----
From: Bruce Schreiber 
To: 
Sent: Sunday, 08 July, 2001 4:32 PM
Subject: Re: Floor Insulation

> Leslie  the insulatin is to keep the cold out off
the soil down to the
> frost line so you can use the more or less year
around 70 degree sub
> soil temps. and add to it with your green house
temps. creating a heat
> sink that keeps your green house warm all night or
am I thinking wrong
>                          Bruce
>

| Message 21

Subject: RE:  homemade insulation
From:    "billevans" 
Date:    Sun, 8 Jul 2001 11:20:54 -0700

got to calculating materials cost for some "homemade"
insulation
 (2)-  4 cubic foot sack horticultural perlite   $5.00
ea   'at'  "xxxxx" Perlite
in escondido,ca
one sack cement 
.60pounds, havent checked this price
lately what is it 2
maybe three dollars.

 let's round up to $15 US  for materials cost so
far

 Now mix ( this is tricky part cause you want tough
insulation go for( parts
by volume) of  7 parts perlite to one part cement.for lighter perlite
just use the above materilas ratio

two  sacks perlite one 60# sack cement)
 WHen adding water it's best I think to saturate the
perlite that you have
measured and let it drain, then to add your measured
quantity of cement

any addition  water should be metereed out sparingly
until the "mud" is
mixed.

 Play w/ the mixtures until you find ratio that suits
your neeeds for
strength( compressive mainly) and durability. Should
think that acrylic
admixtures wuold help to make water repellent to a
degree( if need be) prior
to any sealer coats that might be needed.

 so anyway two sacks  of perlite is 8ft^3( x12^3 to
get in^3)= 13824 in^3 or
if spread to a two inch depth would cover about one
and half 4x8 sheets of
styro board

.    Homemade Cost  for   4X8 by two inch deep     ten
bucks + plus  labor
     Styro bd                     "
twenty
 Izat bout right?

bille
who made "firebrick" at one part cement ten parts
perlite
and who thoit  homemade lightweight concrete was such
the deal
. it is
cheaper and covers more area, but not by much compared
to the convenience of
flamamble styro:>/polyisocyanurate

pps, or even use raw perlite as a "subbase" for a
concrete pad.ppps or straw bales!

ps
. use the" mixed" grade of perlite
. all size
ranges between dust and
about 3/8"

| Message 22

Subject: Re: Floor Insulation
From:    "Chris Jeppesen" 
Date:    Sun, 8 Jul 2001 12:21:37 -0700

Leslie
Heat will mostly rise with only some sideways from
conduction and even less down. It's just a law writen
before time. 
My foam is in the trench on the side walls.
chris

> "Leslie Ter Morshuizen" 
 Re: Floor InsulationDate:
Sun, 8 Jul 2001 08:00:42 +0200
>Reply-To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
>
>Hi Bruce
>
>Why should the heat move laterally and not down?
Surely the insulation
>would have to be below the floor to prevent vertical
heat loss?
>
>Regards,
>                Leslie
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Bruce Schreiber 
>To: 
>Sent: Saturday, 07 July, 2001 11:51 PM
>Subject: Re: Floor Insulation
>
>
>> Steven Medlock  if you dig a trench around your
green house and heavily
>> insulate it you should than have a big heat
sink/floor combination that
>> would  save heat to radiate back into the green
house on cold nights
>> .Just a Theoretical Aquaponists thought
>>                       Bruce
>>

| Message 23

Subject: Phase Change Materials for Cooling, Heat
Storage, etc.
From:    "TGTX" 
Date:    Sun, 8 Jul 2001 15:25:10 -0500

Interesting technology, not for all climates tho.
Perhaps only marginal application to
greenhouses

.but interesting
reading.
http://www.alphagalileo.org/ReadNotice.cfm?releaseid=6788

 Cooling down the office

 There's a way to cool down your office without
warming up the planet A
CHEAP and green ventilation system could give office
air conditioning
the cold shoulder. The system, which has been
developed by researchers
at the University of Nottingham, uses a chemical heat
sink to soak up
warm air, pumping cool air back into the building. It
uses only a
fraction of the energy of conventional air
conditioning and consequently
vastly reduces emissions of carbon dioxide.

"It could remove the need for air conditioning
provided the climate
isn't too severe," says David Etheridge of
Nottingham's Institute of
Building Technology. He says that the system is suited
to countries with
a climate like that of northern Europe, where air
conditioning is widely
used despite the relatively mild summers.
"You're talking about a two or three-degree
temperature reduction," says
Etheridge, "which in comfort terms is quite
significant."

Etheridge and his colleague David Rae invented the
system, which couples
natural ventilation with compounds known as
phase-change materials
(PCMs), which cool the air. PCMs are capable of
storing vast quantities
of latent heat-the heat that is required to turn a
solid into a liquid.

 During the day, a fan draws warm air over an array of
fluid-filled
pipes. These "heat pipes" use a cycle of evaporation
and condensation to
conduct the heat along the pipe to a series of storage
tanks containing
a solid PCM. The PCM absorbs the heat and slowly melts
during the day.
The cooled air is then pumped back into the room.

At night the process is put into reverse. Ventilator
shutters open,
allowing cool night air to enter the room. The fan
reverses direction
and the cold air is sucked up past the heat pipes. The
PCM cools and
solidifies, warming up the air inside the room, which
is then dumped
outside the building.

 The energy is stored as latent heat, says Etheridge.
"The PCM's
temperature isn't changing much, it's the latent heat
capacity that's
important." For their PCM, Etheridge and Rae chose
sodium sulphate,
which is also known as Glauber's salt.

Adding additives to the PCM changes its melting point,
says Etheridge,
so the system can be fine-tuned according to the needs
of the local
climate.

 There are other ways of cooling buildings with
natural ventilation. But
they depend on increasing the thermal mass of the
building, for example,
by using a large mass of concrete to soak up the heat.
PCMs are ideal
for cooling systems, says Jonathan Gates, a researcher
at the School of
the Environment at Brighton University.
They massively increase the thermal mass of the
building without the
need to add vast quantities of concrete, he says.

In tests, the researchers found that the system cooled
the air just as
effectively as air conditioning but cost only
one-sixteenth as much to
run. This lower cost is largely because the Nottingham
system uses less
energy to cool the air.

So power generators burn less fossil fuel, which cuts
emissions of CO2.
"The main incentive behind this is not the cost but a
reduction in CO2
emissions," says Etheridge.

A number of studies have linked poor maintenance of
ventilation systems
to sick building syndrome, so natural ventilation
could have other
health benefits. People like to open windows in hot
weather, but this
prevents air conditioning from working properly.
Office workers in
buildings that have been fitted with Etheridge's
system will be able to
open windows without affecting its performance.

Another advantage of the system is that people who
have dressed in light
summer clothes because of the hot weather won't end up
freezing in a
chilly office. "The whole point of natural ventilation
is that people
will modify their clothing according to the weather
conditions," says
Etheridge. He now wants to run a year-long trial of
the system in a real
office.

http://yarchive.net/chem/glaubers_salt.html

 Melting point 33 degrees C.  The only way it is going
to "wear out" is
by losing some water of hydration which it does about
100 degrees C.

has diagram of system as used in 'Dover House';

http://www.harcourtcollege.com/chem/general/joesten/student/add/chapters/sol
ar.html

Scientists and engineers have been studying solar
heating techniques for
decades.  In the late 1940s Dr. Maria Telkes of
Massachusetts Institute
of Technology developed one clever solar heating
system.  The home she
had built, called the Dover House, took advantage of
the large heat of
fusion of Glauber's salt, Na2SO4a10 H2O.

This substance undergoes a phase transition at a
particularly convenient
temperature, 32.40C.   Because of this behavior,
Glauber's salt is
called a phase change material.

 Glauber's salt absorbs energy during the day by
melting, then releases
that energy during cooler hours as it freezes.

The Dover House had iron solar collectors that
surrounded cans of
Glauber's salt.

 Air circulated around the collectors and through the
Glauber's salt and
was then used to heat the house.

Although Dr. Telkes designed the system with enough
capacity for seven
consecutive cold, completely sunless days.which
required an enormous
volume of the phase change material.it was not long
before a period of
11 consecutive cloudy days exhausted the solar heating
system.

 Because of limitations such as this one, modern solar
houses are always
designed with a conventional heating system as a
backup.
-----

http://www.electronics-cooling.com/Resources/EC_Articles/JAN98/article2.htm

 PCMs are substances that change phase, most often
from solid to liquid,
as they absorb heat. PCMs are selected for the
temperature at which they
change phase and for the latent heat associated with
phase change. PCMs
are sometimes used in conjunction with thermosiphons.
Typical PCMs for
high temperature applications include waxes, salts and
paraffins. Water
(ice) is used for low temperature applications.

There are three general classes of PCM that can be
used effectively for
a PCM heat exchanger [10]. These three classes are
salt-hydrates,
paraffins, and non-paraffin organics. The three most
important factors
to consider in the selection of a PCM are:

the cost of PCM
the safety, toxicity and environmental characteristics
of the PCM
the useful life of the PCM

 The thermal properties of salt-hydrates can
deteriorate as a result of
undergoing thermal cycling. The impact of the cycling
can be decreased
through the addition of additives to the salt-hydrates
and by mechanical
agitation or mixing. Glauber's salt (sodium sulphate,
10-hydrate) is a
very popular PCM material, but it may not be adequate
for those
applications requiring a high number of thermal
cycles, unless properly
encapsulated. Data obtained from material safety data
sheets (MSDSs)
indicates that it is not a significant health hazard.
In addition, the
cost for Glauber's salt is low.

The use of paraffins or other organic materials is
also possible and may
be advantageous because the phase change temperature
can be selected
over a wide range (0 to 1200C). Review of MSDSs for
candidate materials
also indicate that paraffins pose no significant
health or safety
hazards. Rather than use a single pure chemical
species, the actual
paraffin or organic can be a mixture of hydrocarbons.
The phase change
for these mixtures will occur over a small temperature
range.

| Message 24

Subject: Harvesting fish
From:    dreadlox 'at' cwjamaica.com
Date:    Sun, 08 Jul 2001 15:51:31 -0700

To be a bit more specific, the fishing I did was
helping a friend on a
diked pond farm situation where space is limited,
where some grading was
necessary due to recruits, so draining or lowering the
water is not
really an option, we are talking 2 acre ponds!! Does
anyone use apower
takeoff operated rig??? Id love to hear about
options

How can we make this less back breaking? I would be
interested in
hearing how others are siening and if someone has come
up with a home
brew winch or something to simplify hauling in the
nets.

Regards.

Mike Barnett.
JAMAICA

| Message 25

Subject: Re: Fish Scrape injuries
From:    "Lloyd R. Prentice" 
Date:    Sun, 08 Jul 2001 17:18:14 -0400

Hi Arlos,

Arlos wrote:

>   The shark and seal show was at Capitola Beach just
south of the wharf.

Ah yes. I know where that is. I spent a big chunk of
my youth diving around the
point off Santa Cruz, just above the wharf. I used to
know the bottom very well
out there. I had a gray whale cow and calf swim just
five feet below me just
north of the point one day. Visibility isn't all that
great usually, but we used
to bring in some very nice ling cod, cabezones and
black rock fish. The Central
California spearfishing championships were held off
the beach just north of the
point back in '59. I was on the winning three-man team
that year.

The only shark encounter that I'm aware of in that
area involved a surfer. Took
a nice bite out of his board.

> The
> place you might be thinking about where the elephant
seals mate is Ano Nuevo
> just north of Pidgeon Point.

Yes, thanks. I remembered the name just after I hit
the send button. We used to
dive off Pidgeon also. Visibility was usually pretty
bad, but when it cleared up
the spearfishing was awesome. I took a beautiful
12-pound vermillion rock fish
out of there once. Interesting
. I was fifty feet
down when I shot the fish.
Rather than feeling elation, I felt pure terror -- the
only time in many years
of diving that I felt that. The next day, my friend
Dee Marsh was in the exact
same spot, up against a rock wall, fifty feet down,
holding his breath, when he
turned around to see a white staring him in the eye.
It followed him up to the
surface and cruised in among some of my other friends
diving closer into the
point. These encounters were certainly scary, but they
were very rare given the
countless hours we spent in the water, often with
stringers of fish hanging from
our weight belts. I always felt far more endangered on
the highway driving to
and from the beach.

> I live just a minute up from the beach at Rio
> Del Mar in Aptos where the most recent siteing
occurred.

What beautiful place to live. You are fortunate.

> I've only seen one
> shark diving off the Monterey  coast line at Point
Lobos.

I used to do a lot diving around Point Lobos as well.
Never saw sharks there.
Just sea otters. And some unbelievable visibility for
Central California. I
jumped off my paddle board into the kelp bed one day.
Looked down, thinking I
was in about twenty-five thirty  feet of water. I
could see these very small
fingerling-size fish swimming very close to the rocks
at the bottom and every
living thing on the rocks was as clear and crisp as
could be. I dropped my
anchor. Seventy feet of line unwound off the reel and
the anchor was still
hanging 30 feet off the bottom. The fingerlings were
nice two- three-pound blue
rock fish.

I do understand that when the sea otter population
began to come back, the shark
population increased as well.

> Living on Catalina
> Island in '74 I had a white cruise right below me in
the kelp canopy in
> about 25' of water. I could have touched it, it was
that close.

Another gorgeous spot on the globe
. I was a finalist
in the tryouts for the
U.S. spearfishing team back in '64 or so. As part of
the elimination process I
had to pick a clothes pin off a line 100-feet down off
Ship Rock??? just off the
Catalina coast -- without benefit of scuba, of course.
I thought I was pretty
hot bringing up the clothes pin, until my friend Jay
Riffe brought a sea urchin
up from the bottom, which was another twenty to thirty
feet below the clothes
pin.

>   Sharks are on a serious decline world wide do to
problems with BI catch
> and over fishing. I think Peter Benchly deeply
regrets the bad press he
> unleashed on sharks. Granted they will kill but are
not the cold blooded
> hunters movies have made them out to be.
>    Sharks generally attack vertically from below
which is why most fish are
> dark on top and light on the bottom to blend in with
a sunlit surface when
> viewed from below. When seen from the top, the
darker anterior side blends
> with eight er the bottom or darker water. Surfers
and seals are just fast
> food to larger predators.

I understand that the number of reported attacks has
been increasing worldwide
as the population of people indulging in water sports
has increased. But they're
still very very rare -- I think rarer than lightning
strikes. I saw a very
interesting film awhile back about a guy who would
lure Great Whites into the
transom of his boat with chum somewhere off the coast
of South Africa. Then he'd
put them into a sort of hypnotized state by rubbing
their snouts. The eyes would
roll back and you could almost hear them purring. Sort
of blew me away.

> In about '88 when I was still a NAUI instructor we
> had a group on students in a zodiac for their first
boat dive. Seeing what
> we thought was a gray whale calf, we beelined it to
free dive with the gray
> whales. Turned out to be a bloated male elephant
seal carcass with the
> biggest single bite I've ever seen from a shark. The
shark was estimated to
> have been about 18'. Every winter a family of
tourists huddled together on
> the rocks for a Kodak moment are swept off by a
rogue wave and never seen
> again.

Is this off the point at Santa Cruz?

> Sharks may have developed a taste for curry. Just
amazes me that
> signs are ignored and yet people still go over the
barriers to scamper over
> the rocks to be photographed. You'd think with
PHOTOSHOP, someone would make
> this a little more sensible. When we get Tsunami
warnings, people still
> flock to the beach to watch them. Well nature does
have an interesting way
> to insure the strength of the gene pool. its just
too bad the lifeguard is
> not on duty.

There's a big difference between calculated risk and
crazy. We did things in the
water that many people would classify as crazy. But,
in reality, we were very
cautious, always well aware of our limitations. No one
that I knew directly ever
got hurt in the thousands of hours we spent in the
waters off the Pacific coast
-- from La Jolla to Vancouver Island. I wouldn't trade
those days for anything.

As I recall, you're the fellow cultivating abolone?
I'd love to see your
operation some day.

Best wishes,

Lloyd R. Prentice

>
>
> Arlos
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lloyd R. Prentice 
> To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com 
> Date: Sunday, July 08, 2001 7:28 AM
> Subject: Re: Fish Scrape injuries
>
> >Hi Arlos,
> >
> >Arlos wrote:
> >
> >>  We
> >> just had a good size shark (15 ft+-) about a
month ago in 8 feet of water
> >> right off the shore (about 50 feet) knock an
adult california Sea Lion
> clean
> >> out off the water and bit it clean in two. This
was in front of a beach
> full
> >> of tourists.  I think that would be the ultimate
fish sting.
> >
> >Was this, by chance, in the Lover's Point/Pacific
Grove area of Montery
> Bay?
> >
> >I spent many many many hours of my youth snorkeling
and spearfishing in and
> >around Monerey, Pacific Grove and Carmel. Had two
encounters: one blue off
> >Cannery Row and one very large white several
hundred yards off Pacific
> Grove. I
> >was much more impressed by it's girth than it's
length. At the same time
> that I
> >was staring eye-ball to eye-ball with my White, my
friend Bob Steele was
> >eyeballing another about 1/4 a mile away and folks
on the beach were
> watching a
> >large dorsal fin glide by just off shore.
Fortunately they weren't biting
> that
> >day.
> >
> >The year before I started diving, a fellow named
Barry Wilson was killed by
> a
> >white just a few feet off Lover's Point. He'd
dropped a knife climbing up
> on the
> >rocks and had jumped back in to get it. Another
friend of mine helped pull
> him
> >in.
> >
> >As I'm sure you know, they've been researching
Great Whites further up the
> coast
> >off (senior moment) the point where all the
elephant seals hang out. They
> just
> >love to stike at sea lion-shaped objects floating
on the surface. I think
> this
> >is what protected me all the years that I was
diving: I was too skinny.
> >
> >Best wishes,
> >
> >Lloyd R. Prentice
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> Arlos
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: dreadlox 'at' cwjamaica.com

> >> To: tilapia 'at' egroups.com ;
aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
> >> 
> >> Date: Friday, July 06, 2001 12:23 PM
> >> Subject: Fish Scrape injuries
> >>
> >> >Has anyone any ideas or experiences with
infections from fish fin
> >> >jabs/sticks/pokes that they could share?
> >> >
> >> >After handling a lot of fish last week and
getting stabbed a few times
> >> >Ive now had pain in my hand-joints for a week.
Im not sure if this is
> >> >from the seine net, or from a flu-like bug going
around, but I do recall
> >> >a news article in Canada re infections caused by
fish store owners
> >> >getting stabbed by fish fins, can anyone share
some thoughts please??
> >> >
> >> >I think this aspect of job safety may be an
interesting discussion
> >> >point??!
> >> >
> >> >Thanks,
> >> >
> >> >Mike
> >> >JAMAICA
> >> >
> >
> >

| Message 26

Subject: I built a solar liquid piston pump!
From:    Carolyn Hoagland 
Date:    Sun, 08 Jul 2001 17:36:00 -0500

It looks kind of like the liquid piston pump at the
top of this page:

http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/stirling.htm:

Instead of using 2, 2 liter plastic soda bottles
(Tried that, the hot
side collapsed on the suction cycle) I used 4 empty
small metal
propane canisters (with the valve stems removed).

The pump lifts about 1 teaspoon of water a height of 3
inches about
every 30 seconds when the sun is really shining.

So somewhere between the little prototype I built for
$15, and the
expensive pre built units for about $3,500 shown here
http://www.bominsolar.com/sunpulse/  
is a home built pump that could actually be useful to
my fish and
swimming hole situation

.  

I do so love a good gadget building afternoon

I'm off to
calculate how big my air tanks need to be in order to
lift 5 gallons a
minute to a height of 6 feet
.
Carolyn Hoagland
Sewanee, TN

| Message 27

Subject: Re: I built a solar liquid piston pump!
From:    "TGTX" 
Date:    Sun, 8 Jul 2001 18:00:21 -0500

Subject: I built a solar liquid piston pump!

> So somewhere between the little prototype I built
for $15, and the
> expensive pre built units for about $3,500 shown
here
> http://www.bominsolar.com/sunpulse/  
> is a home built pump that could actually be useful
to my fish and
> swimming hole situation

.  
> I do so love a good gadget building afternoon

I'm off to
> calculate how big my air tanks need to be in order
to lift 5 gallons a
> minute to a height of 6 feet
.> Carolyn Hoagland
> Sewanee, TN

There you go!!

You go, Carolyn
.!!
I am impressed.
Keep us posted

Tally Ho!!

Ted

| Message 28

Subject: Reply to - Re: I built a solar liquid piston
pump!
From:    "David Atkinson" 
Date:    Sun, 8 Jul 2001 18:53:20 -0400

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Carolyn Hoagland 
To: ; Alex McGregor 

snip , 
. snip 

Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 6:36 PM
Subject: I built a solar liquid piston pump!

> It looks kind of like the liquid piston pump at the
top of this page:
> 
>
http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/stirling.htm:
>

Reply:

The above website could not be located on the server.

David A
(Jamaica W.I.)

 

| Message 29

Subject: Re: tomato vibrator/scales
From:    "Steven Medlock" 
Date:    Sun, 8 Jul 2001 19:24:36 -0500

Marc,
Boric acid? how does that work?
Red
----- Original Message -----
From: 
To: 
Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 12:04 AM
Subject: Re: tomato vibrator/scales

> How about shredded newspaper treated with Boric
Acid.?
>
> Marc
>
> STEVE SPRING wrote:
> >
> > HOLY MOLLY RED!!
> >
> > That stuff is expensive in your neck of the woods!
I did my system,
although
> > expensive, was less than what you are quoting.
Talking about walls, I'm
> > lost. There is a better way to do this. Meet me in
NC in November and we
can
> > go over this. See my general posting as to the
site of the aquaponics
> > convention. I'm really, REALLY, looking forward to
this.
> >
> > Later my friend

Steve
>

| Message 30

Subject: I see your hair igniter and raise some space
power
From:    kris book 
Date:    Sun, 8 Jul 2001 18:27:46 -0600

Ted,

 

http://cleanenergysystems.com/technology.html

| Message 31

Subject: Re: I built a solar liquid piston pump!
From:    marc 'at' aculink.net
Date:    Sun, 08 Jul 2001 18:51:05 -0600

Outstanding!! Thanks for the inspiration.

Marc

Carolyn Hoagland wrote:
> 
> It looks kind of like the liquid piston pump at the
top of this page:
> 
>
http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/stirling.htm:
> 
> Instead of using 2, 2 liter plastic soda bottles
(Tried that, the hot
> side collapsed on the suction cycle) I used 4 empty
small metal
> propane canisters (with the valve stems removed).
> 
> The pump lifts about 1 teaspoon of water a height of
3 inches about
> every 30 seconds when the sun is really shining.
> 
> So somewhere between the little prototype I built
for $15, and the
> expensive pre built units for about $3,500 shown
here
> http://www.bominsolar.com/sunpulse/
> is a home built pump that could actually be useful
to my fish and
> swimming hole situation
.> 
> I do so love a good gadget building afternoon

I'm off to
> calculate how big my air tanks need to be in order
to lift 5 gallons a
> minute to a height of 6 feet
.> 
> Carolyn Hoagland
> Sewanee, TN

| Message 32

From:    kris book 
Date:    Sun, 8 Jul 2001 18:56:05 -0600

I don't know what happened because, I was looking at
the keyboard while
typing and when I looked up at the monitor, my message
was gone, I mean
sent. I think I made the computer gods angry, so I'm
gonna shit can that
last message but, check out the link. These guys have
it all figured out.
Hooray, we're saved!

http://cleanenergysystems.com/technology.html

| Message 33

Subject: Re: tomato vibrator/scales
From:    "bennett" 
Date:    Sun, 8 Jul 2001 21:41:00 -0400

And cost of living?  How much does

say it cost to
heat, cool, and keep
lights on in a 3 bedroom ranch house?  Do you have
taxes on everything but
the air you breathe?  Why is the wage scale so high?
    D.
-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Schreiber 
To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com 
Date: Sunday, July 08, 2001 12:05 PM
Subject: Re: tomato vibrator/scales

Bennett  Steve lives in Wisconsin and he is a
Respitory Therapist  He is
right about wages being higher up here in the midwest
Mcdonalds pay
starts out at $10 per hr.
                 Bruce

| Message 34

Subject: Re: Fish Scrape injuries
From:    "Arlos" 
Date:    Sun, 8 Jul 2001 19:02:33 -0700

Lloyd,

  I grew up on the border near Palos Verdes and
Redondo Beach and spent
virtually all my waking hours ab and lobster hunting
(during season) and
spear fishing. I was a shop rat from as early as I
could remember when Mel
Fisher first opened, "Mel's Aqua Shop" in Redondo
Beach. I remember him not
wanting to sell me a spear gun and as an adult, it was
probably wise of him
not to sell one to a 7 year old. But he did give me
quite an assortment of
trident tips to make my own Hawaiian sling. Dick
Paskur (sp) bought the shop
around '64 '65 and Mel left for Florida. Mel had a
wall full of gold dredges
he made. It reminds me of some of the posts here, the
creative side that the
mother of invention brings out. Dick was very involved
in spear fishing as
it began to become much more popular. I saved a whole
summer to buy a
Standard Arbalette gun and had it for years until I
bent the barrel coming
in during a storm near the Redondo breakwater. My
first scuba instructor
('65) by the name of Don Morrison went off to New
Zealand to spear fish and
from what I heard through the Santa Cruz dive
community is still there and
owns a steak house. I still pack around a club patch
from the Bottom shop
with a little character of a diver that I saw again in
a place called the
Harbor Deli in Santa Cruz that was a dive shop on
Soquel that Don had drawn
for the owner. What a small world the diving community
was back in those
days.  We did beach dives off of Royal Palms Park on
the Palos Verdes
peninsula near Point Ferman in 8' surf. did things as
you said were
completely crazy to the average human but very
calculated to us. I stooped
teaching scuba diving as a result in the changes that
are market driven to
the industry. anyone with a credit card can get
certified. I used to grind
my teeth over the hotel PADI course's taught in the
Caribbean while working
there. I was the first 12 year old to get an LA county
certification as
there were no NAUI instructors yet in '65. Try and get
a 12 year old today
to understand Charles or boyles law or to learn and
understand dive tables
which were modified by the navy to 15% in the early
'80's. I remember losing
$5 to Bob Mistrell of Dive and Surf (Body Glove) that
he couldn't do a push
up with his fingers out stretched infront. I lost and
never forgot. Today my
wife showed me an article about Bob and Bill Mistrell
having just put up
$3000 as a reward for the arrest of the person that
speared a 300# Black Sea
Bass on Catalina (the fish lived and is recovering).
She reminded me that
the $5 I lost is part of that reward.  I wanted to do
nothing but dive when
I got older or at least anything involving water. When
I went into the Navy
I couldn't dive because I have 20/25 vision.
  I saw that same video from South Africa with the
white shark. Same reason
I won't put my hand in a garbage disposal. Today I
wouldn't even consider
diving near Pigeon Point as the shark population has
grown as has the
elephant seal population.  When I first moved to Santa
Cruz in '76 you could
still spear Ling Cod at the one mile buoy off Santa
Cruz. Today, you can't
even find them there.Estimates have shown the southern
sea otter population
has grown from about 35 during the depression
(discovered during the
construction of Highway 1 in Big Sur) to a population
of around 2000 today.
 As you remembered correctly visibility near Santa
Cruz is usually poor to
non existent. Monterey can average from about 10 ft to
over 100 ft. Diving
on Castle Rock in Carmel Bay, I've seen visibility
nearly 200 ft.
  My Abalone operation consists of a 250 gallon tank
with same for
processing and chilling. Not much of a show stopper. I
headed a group to
attempt to buy Pacific Mariculture about 3 years ago.
It was located 3 miles
south of Davenport but you know how brutal the north
coast can be. The
facility was beat.   The owners had placed the intake
pumps near a sea cave
which sucked sand for several months during the year.
I don't think they
ever pigged the process lines as utilities were on the
average of $3000 a
month. Waste treatment consisted of a concrete raceway
with a large green
streak down the cliff face. This seemed to be OK with
Santa Cruz Co, fish
and Game and the coastal commission. I saw it as a
huge liability. I would
still like to find someone with a spare $5,000,000 to
invest as Abalone
hover around $80 lb. on the world market. California
has 15 ab farms and
most is shipped to the Asian market. Withering foot
syndrome which wiped out
the black AB's in Southern CA seems to occur during El
Nino years when the
water is above average in Temp. All abs carry the
bacteria but it doesn't
seem to become a problem until the water is warm. Its
been found in Red
Abalone as far north as Scotts Creek.
  As usual, I could go on but my wife wants to go on a
bike ride while its
still light out.
Arlos
-----Original Message-----
From: Lloyd R. Prentice 
To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com 
Date: Sunday, July 08, 2001 2:20 PM
Subject: Re: Fish Scrape injuries

>Hi Arlos,
>
>Arlos wrote:
>
>>   The shark and seal show was at Capitola Beach
just south of the wharf.
>
>Ah yes. I know where that is. I spent a big chunk of
my youth diving around
the
>point off Santa Cruz, just above the wharf. I used to
know the bottom very
well
>out there. I had a gray whale cow and calf swim just
five feet below me
just
>north of the point one day. Visibility isn't all that
great usually, but we
used
>to bring in some very nice ling cod, cabezones and
black rock fish. The
Central
>California spearfishing championships were held off
the beach just north of
the
>point back in '59. I was on the winning three-man
team that year.
>
>The only shark encounter that I'm aware of in that
area involved a surfer.
Took
>a nice bite out of his board.
>
>> The
>> place you might be thinking about where the
elephant seals mate is Ano
Nuevo
>> just north of Pidgeon Point.
>
>Yes, thanks. I remembered the name just after I hit
the send button. We
used to
>dive off Pidgeon also. Visibility was usually pretty
bad, but when it
cleared up
>the spearfishing was awesome. I took a beautiful
12-pound vermillion rock
fish
>out of there once. Interesting
. I was fifty feet
down when I shot the
fish.
>Rather than feeling elation, I felt pure terror --
the only time in many
years
>of diving that I felt that. The next day, my friend
Dee Marsh was in the
exact
>same spot, up against a rock wall, fifty feet down,
holding his breath,
when he
>turned around to see a white staring him in the eye.
It followed him up to
the
>surface and cruised in among some of my other friends
diving closer into
the
>point. These encounters were certainly scary, but
they were very rare given
the
>countless hours we spent in the water, often with
stringers of fish hanging
from
>our weight belts. I always felt far more endangered
on the highway driving
to
>and from the beach.
>
>> I live just a minute up from the beach at Rio
>> Del Mar in Aptos where the most recent siteing
occurred.
>
>What beautiful place to live. You are fortunate.
>
>> I've only seen one
>> shark diving off the Monterey  coast line at Point
Lobos.
>
>I used to do a lot diving around Point Lobos as well.
Never saw sharks
there.
>Just sea otters. And some unbelievable visibility for
Central California. I
>jumped off my paddle board into the kelp bed one day.
Looked down, thinking
I
>was in about twenty-five thirty  feet of water. I
could see these very
small
>fingerling-size fish swimming very close to the rocks
at the bottom and
every
>living thing on the rocks was as clear and crisp as
could be. I dropped my
>anchor. Seventy feet of line unwound off the reel and
the anchor was still
>hanging 30 feet off the bottom. The fingerlings were
nice two- three-pound
blue
>rock fish.
>
>I do understand that when the sea otter population
began to come back, the
shark
>population increased as well.
>
>> Living on Catalina
>> Island in '74 I had a white cruise right below me
in the kelp canopy in
>> about 25' of water. I could have touched it, it was
that close.
>
>Another gorgeous spot on the globe
. I was a
finalist in the tryouts for
the
>U.S. spearfishing team back in '64 or so. As part of
the elimination
process I
>had to pick a clothes pin off a line 100-feet down
off Ship Rock??? just
off the
>Catalina coast -- without benefit of scuba, of
course. I thought I was
pretty
>hot bringing up the clothes pin, until my friend Jay
Riffe brought a sea
urchin
>up from the bottom, which was another twenty to
thirty feet below the
clothes
>pin.
>
>>   Sharks are on a serious decline world wide do to
problems with BI catch
>> and over fishing. I think Peter Benchly deeply
regrets the bad press he
>> unleashed on sharks. Granted they will kill but are
not the cold blooded
>> hunters movies have made them out to be.
>>    Sharks generally attack vertically from below
which is why most fish
are
>> dark on top and light on the bottom to blend in
with a sunlit surface
when
>> viewed from below. When seen from the top, the
darker anterior side
blends
>> with eight er the bottom or darker water. Surfers
and seals are just fast
>> food to larger predators.
>
>I understand that the number of reported attacks has
been increasing
worldwide
>as the population of people indulging in water sports
has increased. But
they're
>still very very rare -- I think rarer than lightning
strikes. I saw a very
>interesting film awhile back about a guy who would
lure Great Whites into
the
>transom of his boat with chum somewhere off the coast
of South Africa. Then
he'd
>put them into a sort of hypnotized state by rubbing
their snouts. The eyes
would
>roll back and you could almost hear them purring.
Sort of blew me away.
>
>> In about '88 when I was still a NAUI instructor we
>> had a group on students in a zodiac for their first
boat dive. Seeing
what
>> we thought was a gray whale calf, we beelined it to
free dive with the
gray
>> whales. Turned out to be a bloated male elephant
seal carcass with the
>> biggest single bite I've ever seen from a shark.
The shark was estimated
to
>> have been about 18'. Every winter a family of
tourists huddled together
on
>> the rocks for a Kodak moment are swept off by a
rogue wave and never seen
>> again.
>
>Is this off the point at Santa Cruz?
>
>> Sharks may have developed a taste for curry. Just
amazes me that
>> signs are ignored and yet people still go over the
barriers to scamper
over
>> the rocks to be photographed. You'd think with
PHOTOSHOP, someone would
make
>> this a little more sensible. When we get Tsunami
warnings, people still
>> flock to the beach to watch them. Well nature does
have an interesting
way
>> to insure the strength of the gene pool. its just
too bad the lifeguard
is
>> not on duty.
>
>There's a big difference between calculated risk and
crazy. We did things
in the
>water that many people would classify as crazy. But,
in reality, we were
very
>cautious, always well aware of our limitations. No
one that I knew directly
ever
>got hurt in the thousands of hours we spent in the
waters off the Pacific
coast
>-- from La Jolla to Vancouver Island. I wouldn't
trade those days for
anything.
>
>As I recall, you're the fellow cultivating abolone?
I'd love to see your
>operation some day.
>
>Best wishes,
>
>Lloyd R. Prentice
>
>
>
>>
>>
>> Arlos
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Lloyd R. Prentice 
>> To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com 
>> Date: Sunday, July 08, 2001 7:28 AM
>> Subject: Re: Fish Scrape injuries
>>
>> >Hi Arlos,
>> >
>> >Arlos wrote:
>> >
>> >>  We
>> >> just had a good size shark (15 ft+-) about a
month ago in 8 feet of
water
>> >> right off the shore (about 50 feet) knock an
adult california Sea Lion
>> clean
>> >> out off the water and bit it clean in two. This
was in front of a
beach
>> full
>> >> of tourists.  I think that would be the ultimate
fish sting.
>> >
>> >Was this, by chance, in the Lover's Point/Pacific
Grove area of Montery
>> Bay?
>> >
>> >I spent many many many hours of my youth
snorkeling and spearfishing in
and
>> >around Monerey, Pacific Grove and Carmel. Had two
encounters: one blue
off
>> >Cannery Row and one very large white several
hundred yards off Pacific
>> Grove. I
>> >was much more impressed by it's girth than it's
length. At the same time
>> that I
>> >was staring eye-ball to eye-ball with my White, my
friend Bob Steele was
>> >eyeballing another about 1/4 a mile away and folks
on the beach were
>> watching a
>> >large dorsal fin glide by just off shore.
Fortunately they weren't
biting
>> that
>> >day.
>> >
>> >The year before I started diving, a fellow named
Barry Wilson was killed
by
>> a
>> >white just a few feet off Lover's Point. He'd
dropped a knife climbing
up
>> on the
>> >rocks and had jumped back in to get it. Another
friend of mine helped
pull
>> him
>> >in.
>> >
>> >As I'm sure you know, they've been researching
Great Whites further up
the
>> coast
>> >off (senior moment) the point where all the
elephant seals hang out.
They
>> just
>> >love to stike at sea lion-shaped objects floating
on the surface. I
think
>> this
>> >is what protected me all the years that I was
diving: I was too skinny.
>> >
>> >Best wishes,
>> >
>> >Lloyd R. Prentice
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Arlos
>> >>
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: dreadlox 'at' cwjamaica.com

>> >> To: tilapia 'at' egroups.com ;
aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
>> >> 
>> >> Date: Friday, July 06, 2001 12:23 PM
>> >> Subject: Fish Scrape injuries
>> >>
>> >> >Has anyone any ideas or experiences with
infections from fish fin
>> >> >jabs/sticks/pokes that they could share?
>> >> >
>> >> >After handling a lot of fish last week and
getting stabbed a few
times
>> >> >Ive now had pain in my hand-joints for a week.
Im not sure if this is
>> >> >from the seine net, or from a flu-like bug
going around, but I do
recall
>> >> >a news article in Canada re infections caused
by fish store owners
>> >> >getting stabbed by fish fins, can anyone share
some thoughts please??
>> >> >
>> >> >I think this aspect of job safety may be an
interesting discussion
>> >> >point??!
>> >> >
>> >> >Thanks,
>> >> >
>> >> >Mike
>> >> >JAMAICA
>> >> >
>> >
>> >
>
>

| Message 35

Subject: Admin stuff -- subjects, cut and paste, etc.
was Re: Fish
  Scrape injuries
From:    S & S Aqua Farm 
Date:    Sun, 08 Jul 2001 21:50:05 -0500

Have had little time lately to read, much less post to
the group -- but we
really need to "tune-up" our postings to keep the list
readable for everyone.

Please change the subject line to reflect your topic
-- it seldom is done,
and that's why we have so many problems searching for
that elusive bit of
info in the posts we save -- unless we retitle it,
it's always a
needle-in-a-haystack search.  

Please try to reduce the amount of quoted text from
previous posts when
sending your new message.  One or two lines of your
own should really only
apply to a small portion of the post to which you are
replying.  Since we've
all just read the previous post, we really don't need
it all repeated.

I came across this website on another list -- for
those new to the internet
and/or discussion groups, it's certainly worth a read.

http://www.albion.com/netiquette/

I appreciate this group so much, and have enjoyed ALL
the recent topics
(even if I won't go swimming in the ocean).  Thanks
for keeping the list so
interesting!

Paula
S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO
65775  417-256-5124
Web page  http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/

| Message 36

Subject: Re: Admin stuff
From:    Al Thompson 
Date:    Sun, 08 Jul 2001 21:28:22 -0700

Hi Paula:

Thanks SO MUCH for sending this note.
Some of the participants were really getting
out of control with the non-Aquaponics topics.

Best Regards,
Al

S & S Aqua Farm wrote:

> Have had little time lately to read, much less post
to the group -- but we
> really need to "tune-up" our postings to keep the
list readable for everyone.
>
> Please change the subject line to reflect your topic
-- it seldom is done,
> and that's why we have so many problems searching
for that elusive bit of
> info in the posts we save -- unless we retitle it,
it's always a
> needle-in-a-haystack search.
>
> Please try to reduce the amount of quoted text from
previous posts when
> sending your new message.  One or two lines of your
own should really only
> apply to a small portion of the post to which you
are replying.  Since we've
> all just read the previous post, we really don't
need it all repeated.
>
> I came across this website on another list -- for
those new to the internet
> and/or discussion groups, it's certainly worth a
read.
>
> http://www.albion.com/netiquette/
>
> I appreciate this group so much, and have enjoyed
ALL the recent topics
> (even if I won't go swimming in the ocean).  Thanks
for keeping the list so
> interesting!
>
> Paula
> S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains,
MO 65775  417-256-5124
> Web page  http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/