Aquaponics Digest - Mon 07/23/01
Message 1: Re: Outside Aquaponics
from pablo obiaga
Message 2: Place for off-topic discussion groups
from Michael Olson
Message 3: Re: Outside Aquaponics
from "Leslie Ter Morshuizen"
Message 4: NFT aquaponics
from "Mark Allen Wells"
Message 5: RE: Outside Aquaponics- Spray efficiencys
of pumps
from "Hurst, Steve ( China)"
Message 6: Re: Watercress postharvest handling
from "gutierrez-lagatta"
Message 7: Re: NFT aquaponics
from "gutierrez-lagatta"
Message 8: Re: NFT aquaponics
from "Attie Esterhuyse"
Message 9: Re: Watercress postharvest handling
from S & S Aqua Farm
Message 10: Re: Outside Aquaponics
from "Attie Esterhuyse"
Message 11: Re: Outside Aquaponics
from dreadlox 'at' cwjamaica.com
Message 12: Re: NFT aquaponics
from "gutierrez-lagatta"
Message 13: hydroponics in National Geographic
from "Arlos"
Message 14: Re: Outside Aquaponics
from "Attie Esterhuyse"
Message 15: Re: Outside Aquaponics
from Lynn Wigglesworth
Message 16: Re: Watercress postharvest handling
from "gutierrez-lagatta"
Message 17: Re: hydroponics in National Geographic
from "gutierrez-lagatta"
Message 18: Re: NFT aquaponics
from "Attie Esterhuyse"
Message 19: Re: "Kool Ray" liquid shade
from Andrei.Calciu 'at' hn.va.nec.com
Message 20: RE: NFT aquaponics
from "Mark Allen Wells"
Message 21: RE: mushrooms
from Andrei.Calciu 'at' hn.va.nec.com
Message 22: Re: NFT aquaponics
from kris book
Message 23: mushrooms
from "Carlos R. Arano"
Message 24: Re: Outside Aquaponics
from "gutierrez-lagatta"
Message 25: organic hydroponics
from "gutierrez-lagatta"
Message 26: Re: Outside Aquaponics -Correction
from "gutierrez-lagatta"
Message 27: Re: "Kool Ray" liquid shade
from kris book
Message 28: Re: organic hydroponics
from kris book
Message 29: Re: Outside Aquaponics
from "gutierrez-lagatta"
Message 30: Re: mushrooms
from Raul Vergueiro Martins
Message 31: Outside aquaponics
from "Leslie Ter Morshuizen"
Message 32: Re: Outside Aquaponics
from "Leslie Ter Morshuizen"
Message 33: RE: mushrooms
from "Carlos R. Arano"
Message 34: Re: mushrooms
from Raul Vergueiro Martins
Message 35: Re: Fish Species for Aquaponics
from "STEVE SPRING"
Message 36: Re: Let's leave a list for Paula
from dreadlox 'at' cwjamaica.com
Message 37: Re: On and Off Topic Ponderings (Not Too
Long)
from marc 'at' aculink.net
Message 38: Re: Let's leave a list for Paula
from "Arlos"
Message 39: Re: my system diagrams
from "David Atkinson"
Message 40: Luminescence on Fish body
from dreadlox 'at' cwjamaica.com
Message 41: Re: On and Off Topic Ponderings (Not Too
Long)
from kris book
Message 42: Fw: Re: lists
from kris book
Message 43: Re: Luminescence on Fish body
from S & S Aqua Farm
Message 44: Attachments and graphics & lists
from S & S Aqua Farm
| Message 1
Subject: Re: Outside Aquaponics
From: pablo obiaga
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 02:35:33 -0300
At 20:59 22/07/01 EDT, you wrote:
Perhaps is a newbie question but. Isn't the velocity
given by the second
pump, the violence of water movement in the return to
the fish tank wich
provides the necesary O2 by surfacing new water layers
while opperating?
How do you solve the matter just by gravity?. I'M very
interested because
two pumps in these latitudes may mean that you can't
do the thing.
I am in the process of designing a system of beds in a
GH and have the fish
>tanks in the ground and let the water return by
gravity. 1/2 the number of
>pumps and 1/2 the electricity .
>
>ps: you are right in having a cover over the beds,
the rains will really
>dilute your nutrients.
Thanks, Bert.
Richard
| Message 2
Subject: Place for off-topic discussion groups
From: Michael Olson
Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 22:31:38 -0700 (PDT)
Kris,
There is a nice, independent place that you can set up
a discussion group for free. I like the format much
better than this email list:
http://hv.greenspun.com/bboard/
click on Add Topic to start the process for setting up
a new group.
__________________________________________________
Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute
with Yahoo! Messenger
http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
| Message 3
Subject: Re: Outside Aquaponics
From: "Leslie Ter Morshuizen"
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 08:51:02 +0200
Hi Richard
It would be cheaper to operate a single, slightly
larger pump, to provide a
side-stream return of water to the fish tank for
aeration, than to have a
second water pump purely for the purpose of aeration.
My suggestion (having
never done aquaponics, but having an understanding of
recirculating
aquaculture) would be to use a single, external,
continuous rated, water
pump to get the water to the highest point from where
it gravity flows back
to the sump, which is also the fish tank in the case
of aquaponics. If you
want an irregular water flow, use a self-priming
siphon to produce this
effect.
Regards,
Leslie
> Perhaps is a newbie question but. Isn't the velocity
given by the second
> pump, the violence of water movement in the return
to the fish tank wich
> provides the necesary O2 by surfacing new water
layers while opperating?
> How do you solve the matter just by gravity?. I'M
very interested because
> two pumps in these latitudes may mean that you can't
do the thing.
| Message 4
Subject: NFT aquaponics
From: "Mark Allen Wells"
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 02:07:00 -0500
Hi folks,
I've read lots of stuff since I have been here
about beds and rafts. I was wondering if anyone
is using an NFT system with their fish tanks.
thanks,
Mark
ps
.thanks to those who contributed to the digester
thread. It was like talking about an old friend. I'm
sorry if it seemed off topic for some. For me, it was
about how to convert aquaponic waste to energy. I
look
forward to being a part of another list on that
subject.
| Message 5
Subject: RE: Outside Aquaponics- Spray efficiencys of
pumps
From: "Hurst, Steve ( China)"
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 15:10:47 +0800
Interested in the same point.
My experiments with trying to save electricity
by cutting down on the pump size/velocity has resulted
in me having to
start up my aerators again.
100 watt pumps can distribute the water across the
system okay ( both ways
),
( thats 100 watts 'at' 220V, Philipinne Voltage )
but the aeration effect of the shower head is almost
negligible compared
to my 1/2 HP pump I was using.( as per S&S
recomendations, good advice ! )
As my total goal is still to run the entire operation
on Solar/alternative
energy, I still might be able to attain a net
reduction in power
requirements.
Other possibility I am looking into is the reverse of
this idea, which is
actually to build
the tanks on top of the Pigstys, to give enough head
to the liguid to spray
out of the distribution grid on the grow bed. (
running from a standpipe
in the tank, and emptying using a timed/actuated valve
to growbeds ),
However, It might require even bigger pumps to return
the water to the
higher elevation, and spray, without having to use the
aerators.
Altogether there may be little or no net gain in power
reduction
requirements,
with the additional expense of more expensive tanks
and buildings.
Incidentally the best I am able to achive using 100
watt pumps in my tanks
is about 48% DO.( without aerators ) I have tried
various configurations
using the shower head,
spray bar and even steps. Shower head and spray bar
appear to work similarly
well.
I need to be able to maintain Tilapia levels at the
higher stocking densitys
to
make it viable, so I beleive I may have to live with
the higher power
requirements
of the larger pumps.
Still working the numbers out on all this. Not been
running long enough yet
to come up with an answer.
Steve H
SNIP
>Perhaps is a newbie question but. Isn't the velocity
given by the second
>pump, the violence of water movement in the return to
the fish tank wich
>provides the necesary O2 by surfacing new water
layers while opperating?
>How do you solve the matter just by gravity?. I'M
very interested because
>two pumps in these latitudes may mean that you can't
do the thing.
>I am in the process of designing a system of beds in
a GH and have the fish
>>tanks in the ground and let the water return by
gravity. 1/2 the number of
>>pumps and 1/2 the electricity .
>
>>ps: you are right in having a cover over the beds,
the rains will really
>>dilute your nutrients.
| Message 6
Subject: Re: Watercress postharvest handling
From: "gutierrez-lagatta"
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 02:30:30 -0500
Paula,
What I saw was a carton of greens in a local
restaurant that had been
delivered by a produce wholesaler. Most produce in
this area comes
through Atlanta.
> producer direct selling to a restaurant. Sometimes
the term
"wholesale" has
> a lot of different meanings.
Would you recommend a light misting before bagging or
something more
subtantial like dipping the watercress in fresh water,
giving it a
like shake and then bagging?
> As I said, we had good storage life (1-2 weeks) from
packaging in
sealed
> poly bags with some moisture . No way you should
let watercress dry
out
Adriana
| Message 7
Subject: Re: NFT aquaponics
From: "gutierrez-lagatta"
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 02:51:48 -0500
Mark,
There is a USDA research station in West Virginia
(sorry, forgot the
name of the town, possibly Kearneysville or
Shepherdstown) which has
done research growing NFT strawberries and lettuce in
trout effluent.
This wasn't a recirculating system, however. It was a
demonstration of
the ability of the hydroponic component to remove
nutrients from the
effluent, rendering it clean enough to discharge into
the local
waterways.
> I was wondering if anyone
> is using an NFT system with their fish tanks.
Adriana
| Message 8
Subject: Re: NFT aquaponics
From: "Attie Esterhuyse"
Date: 23 Jul 2001 10:56:18 +0200
The researcher who did this was Dr Paul Adler. Fumiomi
Takeda was also
involved. Dr Adler's paper was discussed on an
internet conference held by
the IBSnet (Integrated Bio Systems). For more
information on the IBS net,
you can contact
Jacky Foo at foo 'at' SWIPNET.SE
Regards
Attie
gutierrez-lagatta wrote:
> Mark,
>
> There is a USDA research station in West Virginia
(sorry, forgot the
> name of the town, possibly Kearneysville or
Shepherdstown) which has
> done research growing NFT strawberries and lettuce
in trout effluent.
> This wasn't a recirculating system, however. It was
a demonstration of
> the ability of the hydroponic component to remove
nutrients from the
> effluent, rendering it clean enough to discharge
into the local
> waterways.
> > I was wondering if anyone
> > is using an NFT system with their fish tanks.>
> Adriana
| Message 9
Subject: Re: Watercress postharvest handling
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 06:49:37 -0500
At 02:30 AM 07/23/2001 -0500, Adriana wrote:
>
>What I saw was a carton of greens in a local
restaurant that had been
>delivered by a produce wholesaler. Most produce in
this area comes
>through Atlanta.
If I were looking to supply that same customer, I'd
ask the buyer how he
likes that arrangement. Unless they intend to work
straight from the
carton, I'd think it unnecessary to supply extra
packaging that's going out
the back door so they can put the product in the
cooler.
>Would you recommend a light misting before bagging or
something more
>subtantial like dipping the watercress in fresh
water, giving it a
>like shake and then bagging?
I think either way would work fine. As long as your
product doesn't need
rinsing, there's no need for excessive drenching.
Picked, misted, bagged
and cooled should work the best, I'd think, and
eliminate too much moisture.
You can always experiment to see if one works better
over the other. We
always picked early in the morning when the product
was still moist from
overnight. With the heat difference in our locations,
you may not have that
much moisture. If you do try both ways, I'd be
interested in what you find.
We always need input from other climates to balance
out what we know.
Thanks,
Paula
S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO
65775 417-256-5124
Web page http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
| Message 10
Subject: Re: Outside Aquaponics
From: "Attie Esterhuyse"
Date: 23 Jul 2001 14:19:09 +0200
Hi Leslie
I was thinking of using the same method that you just
described. Do you
think one will get enough aeration with the return
flow?
I was thinking of using Vertigro pots just before the
water returns to
the fish tank. Since one has a flow rate of about 4
l/h down one column
of pots, the water should be exposed to a lot of air.
This is if one can
use gravel, or some other loose material, in the pot
as the grow medium.
If there would be enough air movement in the pot
column is another
question, since only a small surface area per pot is
exposed to the
atmosphere. The way I would do this is to first let
the water flow
through the gravel beds by means of gravity. Here one
must configure the
piping such as to allow for an ebb and flow cycle in
the gravel bed.
This is crucial for the bacteria living on the gravel
as well as for
aeration of the plant roots. After the gravel bed I
would place a sump
with the water pump. An advantage would be that the
water at this point
is clean and without any solids and filamentous
materials whish can
cause blockages. From the sump, the water is pumped to
the top of the
Vertigro pots and than allowed to trickle back to the
fish dam. Care
should be taken, with designing of the system, to make
sure that the
fish dam water can never drain to a level hazardous to
the fish.
The only unknowns to me are the level of aeration one
can accomplish in
this way and the maximum time the gravel beds can be
flooded before
damage to the plant roots or bacteria occurs.
Regards
Attie
Leslie Ter Morshuizen wrote:
> Hi Richard
>
> It would be cheaper to operate a single, slightly
larger pump, to provide a
> side-stream return of water to the fish tank for
aeration, than to have a
> second water pump purely for the purpose of
aeration. My suggestion (having
> never done aquaponics, but having an understanding
of recirculating
> aquaculture) would be to use a single, external,
continuous rated, water
> pump to get the water to the highest point from
where it gravity flows back
> to the sump, which is also the fish tank in the case
of aquaponics. If you
> want an irregular water flow, use a self-priming
siphon to produce this
> effect.
>
> Regards,
> Leslie
>
> > Perhaps is a newbie question but. Isn't the
velocity given by the second
> > pump, the violence of water movement in the return
to the fish tank wich
> > provides the necesary O2 by surfacing new water
layers while opperating?
> > How do you solve the matter just by gravity?. I'M
very interested because
> > two pumps in these latitudes may mean that you
can't do the thing.
| Message 11
Subject: Re: Outside Aquaponics
From: dreadlox 'at' cwjamaica.com
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 08:45:34 -0700
Hi ATTIE,
Nice to see you again. I set up my rainwater system on
Saturday,
spanning 150 feet, traversing a road, and going UNDER
a road, all
working off gravity flow
. NOTHING beat having it in
your head and then
actually doing it.
What I am (laterally) trying to say is
. DO AN
EXPERIMENT!!:> Try
stacking a few hanging flowerpots full of gravel over
each other, and
rig your pump to the top of the stack and let her
wheel
if you have a
DO meter, and such already
.do a few readings
I can
tell you, and Im
sure the others much further into this than I will
tell you
The feel good factor seeing your own results will give
you a rush for
days
. you seem to have more pep in your step, and
you just keep
going. AQUAPONICS IS ADDICTIVE>>!!! :) THAT you wont
get out of a list
or table.Ive built large water cleaning equipment based on
aquaponics, and the
outcome can never be really evaluated till it runs.
Try it
. youll like it!
Mike
JAMAICA
PS. CAPS DENOTE EXCITEMENT LEVELS
.not
shouting
.hehehe
Attie Esterhuyse wrote:
>
> The only unknowns to me are the level of aeration
one can accomplish in
> this way and the maximum time the gravel beds can be
flooded before
> damage to the plant roots or bacteria occurs.
>
> Regards
>
> Attie
>
| Message 12
Subject: Re: NFT aquaponics
From: "gutierrez-lagatta"
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 08:56:00 -0500
You're correct Attie,
It was Paul Adler and Dr. Takeda; I visitied Dr. Adler
at the USDA
research facility in West Virginia in the early stages
of my research
about 3 years ago. One lingering question I have
about using NFT in
conjunction with aquaculture has to do with the
ability to process
large volumes of effluent. In Paula's flood and drain
beds every inch
of the gravel surface area plus the plant roots serve
as the biofilter
for the effluent. In NFT you use much less effluent.
Therefore the
ratios of fish to plants may need to be modified for
this application
and the density of fish in #/gallon of water needs to
be studied
carefully to ensure an adequate level of nutrients in
the water.
Adriana
> The researcher who did this was Dr Paul Adler.
Fumiomi Takeda was
also
> involved. Dr Adler's paper was discussed on an
internet conference
held by
> the IBSnet (Integrated Bio Systems).
| Message 13
Subject: hydroponics in National Geographic
From: "Arlos"
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 07:02:53 -0700
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
=_NextPart_000_000D_01C11345.7E511A00
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hola Amigos,
There is an artists conception in a National
Geographic issue from =
about 1968 showing a large domed hydroponic farm of
the future =
(1990's?). If anyone has a copy of this (I'm working
off of memory =
here). It would make a great post.What made this stick
between my ears =
was a statement about the future where we would only
work 3-4 hours per =
week. Yea, right, when pigs learn to operate heavy
equipment too.
Arlos
"Will do calculus for spare change"
=_NextPart_000_000D_01C11345.7E511A00
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hola
Amigos,
There is an
artists =
conception in a=20
National Geographic issue from about 1968 showing a
large domed =
hydroponic farm=20
of the future (1990's?). If anyone has a copy of this
(I'm working off =
of memory=20
here). It would make a great post.What made this stick
between my ears =
was a=20
statement about the future where we would only work
3-4 hours per week. =
Yea,=20
right, when pigs learn to operate heavy equipment
too.
Arlos
"Will do
calculus for spare=20
change"
=_NextPart_000_000D_01C11345.7E511A00--
| Message 14
Subject: Re: Outside Aquaponics
From: "Attie Esterhuyse"
Date: 23 Jul 2001 16:02:30 +0200
Thanks Mike,
I am busy putting prices together and sourcing the few
things that i will
need for a test run. I just found a fish dam at a
reasonable price this
afternoon. So soon I want to have that pep in my step.
Attie
| Message 15
Subject: Re: Outside Aquaponics
From: Lynn Wigglesworth
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 10:06:13 -0400
At 02:19 PM 7/23/2001 +0200, Attie Esterhuyse wrote:
>Hi Leslie
>
>I was thinking of using the same method that you just
described. Do you
>think one will get enough aeration with the return
flow?
This is an interesting discussion for me, too, since
I'm still in the
planning stage. I have a related question: how do you
determine the square
(or is it cubic) footage of growbeds and sumps needed
to handle the amount
of effluent coming from the tank? The amount of water
coming from the tank
isn't too hard to calculate, as 'X' water changes per
hour are recommended
and I'll know the gph of the pump(s). I understand
that stocking density
determines the level of nutrients in the effluent, but
that's easy to
change, compared to making the growbeds bigger or
smaller once they are in
place. How do I figure out much growbed it takes to
handle, say, 10 gallon
per minute flow?
Lynn Wigglesworth
Peasant Farmer
Tioga County, PA
| Message 16
Subject: Re: Watercress postharvest handling
From: "gutierrez-lagatta"
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 09:08:16 -0500
I did, I asked him if it was OK to give it to home
loose in plastic
bags and he said "fine" which makes me happy, happy.
It saves at
least $1 - 1.50 per box and is good for the
environment as well.
> If I were looking to supply that same customer, I'd
ask the buyer
how he
> likes that arrangement. Unless they intend to work
straight from
the
> carton, I'd think it unnecessary to supply extra
packaging that's
going out
> the back door so they can put the product in the
cooler.
I'll try to do some shelf life testing as soon as my
refrigeration
capabilities are improved. By way of educating
prospective
growers
.one of the costs that you should think about
when setting up
one of these operations is a walk-in cooler. I had
one in Florida and
don't have one in Alabama yet and miss it desperately.
Cooling your
product down as soon as possible after cutting is
probably the most
critical factor in the shelf life of greens.
> With the heat difference in our locations, you may
not have that
> much moisture. If you do try both ways, I'd be
interested in what
you find.
> We always need input from other climates to balance
out what we
know.
Adriana
| Message 17
Subject: Re: hydroponics in National Geographic
From: "gutierrez-lagatta"
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 09:11:24 -0500
Yeah and obviously there are no aphids in this "future
farm" :>).>What made this stick between my ears was a statement
about the future
where we would only work 3-4 hours per week. >Yea,
right, when pigs
learn to operate heavy equipment too.
| Message 18
Subject: Re: NFT aquaponics
From: "Attie Esterhuyse"
Date: 23 Jul 2001 16:22:25 +0200
Hi Adriana
In one of Dr Rakocy's reports he mentions that the
surface area of the
Styrofoam rafts that he is using is large enough to
house enough bacteria
for the nitrification process. He is also making use
of airstones, placed
below the rafts to make sure that there is enough
Oxygen present for the
bacteria. So maybe the same sort of principal will
apply with NFT. They
also remove the solids from their system and still
grow nice crops.
One thing that I remember from Dr. Adler’s report was
that they first grew
the lettuce in a normal hydroponic mixture before
placing it in the NFT
system. Maybe I have it a bit wrong but it can’t be
to much. He mentioned
something about luxurious uptake of nutrients and that
the small plant
then actually has enough stored nutrients to survive
in the low nutrient
content water from the fish farm.
Attie
| Message 19
Subject: Re: "Kool Ray" liquid shade
From: Andrei.Calciu 'at' hn.va.nec.com
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 10:41:09 -0400
Guys,
I have a small problem with the liquid shade. Why use
it instead of a shade
cloth? It stays on permanently (more or less) so when
you have less sun out
there, you cannot pull it down to compensate. Etc,
etc, etc. Sure it is
cheaper than a cloth, but there is labor involved in
putting it on, then it
wears out, needs to be reapplied, it may block more
than you want it to,
etc. etc, etc.
So, although it may be cheap to acquire the basic
paint, after all the
labor and shortcomings it has, you end up spending
more than on a good
shade cloth and you get lesser results. Why bother?
-_______________
Andrei D. Calciu (VA-4270)
NEC America, Inc.
14040 Park Center Dr.
Herndon, VA 20171-3227
Voice: 703-834-4273
Fax: 703-787-6613
This message and any attachment are confidential. If
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intended recipient, please telephone or email the
sender and delete the
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recipient you must not copy this message or attachment
or disclose the
contents to any other person.
dreadlox 'at' cwjamaica.c
om To:
aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
Sent by: cc:
aquaponics-request 'at' t
Subject: "Kool Ray" liquid shade
ownsqr.com
07/22/01 03:05 AM
Please respond to
aquaponics
Dave could you expand a bit more as to what this is
supposed to be and
what this was related to?? Is this a paint thingee
that one uses on
greenhouse glass?
Mike.
DAVEINBHAM 'at' aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 7/16/01 11:11:37 PM Central
Standard Time,
> aquaponics-digest-request 'at' townsqr.com writes:
>
> << For a commercial mix you can buy "Kool Ray"
liquid shade. It comes
> in Regular and Easy-Off. It is always diluted to
achieve the desired
degree
> of shading, with average dilution of 8 to 1. I have
used the Easy-Off
and
> found it can be washed off with some scrubbing
after being baked in the
New
> Mexico sun. I don't know how well it stands up in
high rainfall
climates. >>
>
****************************************************************
> I have used "Kool Ray " here in Alabama where we
average 55 inches of
rain a
> year and it works rather well.
> Regards,
> Dave
| Message 20
Subject: RE: NFT aquaponics
From: "Mark Allen Wells"
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 09:50:50 -0500
Thanks for the info! Very interesting and
much appreciated.
Any thoughts on how it effects DO?
Mark
| Message 21
Subject: RE: mushrooms
From: Andrei.Calciu 'at' hn.va.nec.com
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 11:10:39 -0400
Guys, stay away from Crop King!
They are the most outrageously priced outfit I have
ever seen.
If you want to do mushrooms you do not have to spend
200+ thousand dollars
with Crop King.
Why on earth would anybody buy a greenhouse from them
for 100 grand, then
spend another 100 grand to outfit it, when you can go
in your own basement
(if big enough and produce mushrooms, and all you need
is to install a fan
and a heater and a bunch of hooks on the joists to
support your mushroom
logs. It takes about 2 square feet of space for each
mushroom log, so a 500
square foot basement will allow you to have up to 250
logs. That will give
you some 4000 pounds of mushroom production. Can you
deal with it?
-_______________
Andrei D. Calciu (VA-4270)
NEC America, Inc.
14040 Park Center Dr.
Herndon, VA 20171-3227
Voice: 703-834-4273
Fax: 703-787-6613
This message and any attachment are confidential. If
you are not the
intended recipient, please telephone or email the
sender and delete the
message and any attachment from your system. If you
are not the intended
recipient you must not copy this message or attachment
or disclose the
contents to any other person.
| Message 22
Subject: Re: NFT aquaponics
From: kris book
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 09:17:59 -0600
It seems to me that a NFT system connected after the
effluent leaves the
grow bed, would allow a grower to use biofertilizer in
conjunction with
effluent and then flush the NFT system with a little
clean water so the
fish tank would never know that the NFT system had
been added. That rinse
water would be beneficial to an outside garden. This
should allow
aquaponics growers to raise any plant desired, even
the heaviest feeders
included. To the untrained mind this seems possible,
what do you folks
with experience think. Hey Ted are you OK, I haven't
heard hardly a peep
out of you since your speaking ordeal.
kris
P.S. Adriana, in the off-list message you sent me on
the new certified
organic hydroponic nutrient, Metanaturals, you said
that all the
ingredients were on the new organic guidelines list
but, with a serious
deficiency. Can you expand on this deficiency
| Message 23
Subject: mushrooms
From: "Carlos R. Arano"
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 10:28:49 -0300
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
=_NextPart_000_00A3_01C11362.432F9880
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charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Raul:
Only one thing more about mushrooms.
You said:
> On the other side, carbon dioxide is a need for a
plant, but it is a =
poison to a mushroom,
> though mushrooms "excrete" lots of it.
> That is why in the ambients where you cultivate
mushrooms, you need a =
high level of
> ventilation to clean air from that gas.
To cultivate mushrooms (Agaricus) to high productivity
conditions, it =
is convenient to keep the CO2 at a level of about 1000
ppm. Higher it is =
a poison to them. At that level they grow better.
Carlos R. Arano
http://www.geocities.com/c_arano
c_arano 'at' bigfoot.com
=_NextPart_000_00A3_01C11362.432F9880
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Raul:
Only one thing more about =
mushrooms.
You said:
> On the
other side, =
carbon dioxide is=20
a need for a plant, but it is a poison to a
mushroom,
> though =
mushrooms=20
"excrete" lots of it.
> That is why in the
ambients where you =
cultivate=20
mushrooms, you need a high level of
>
ventilation to clean air =
from that=20
gas.
To cultivate mushrooms (Agaricus) to high
productivity =
conditions, =20
it is convenient to keep the CO2 at a level of about
1000 ppm. Higher it =
is a=20
poison to them. At that level they grow
better.
Carlos =
R.=20
Arano
http://www.geocities.com/c_aran=
o
c_arano 'at' bigfoot.com <=
/BODY>
=_NextPart_000_00A3_01C11362.432F9880--
| Message 24
Subject: Re: Outside Aquaponics
From: "gutierrez-lagatta"
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 09:14:24 -0500
Lynn,
Jim Rakocy's recommendation for the ratio of growbeds
to fish is based
on 3#'s of feed as the input. This eliminates fish
density variations
in different systems. A search of the archives should
bring this
information up, otherwise maybe Dr. R will break his
loooooong silence
and give us this information one more time.
Adriana
> ). I understand that stocking density
> determines the level of nutrients in the effluent,
but that's easy
to
> change, compared to making the growbeds bigger or
smaller once they
are in
> place. How do I figure out much growbed it takes to
handle, say, 10
gallon
> per minute flow?
| Message 25
Subject: organic hydroponics
From: "gutierrez-lagatta"
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 11:43:49 -0500
Kris,
The organic regulations state that you can use the
"sulfates" that are
in the Metanaturals ingredient list but ONLY if you
have a DOCUMENTED
deficiency of that particular element in your soil.
In other words,
you can't just use it for any and all applications.
Warning - hydroponic and aquaponic certification is
not incorporated
into the regulations and is viewed as "unnatural" by a
number of
organic producers
.so use of an organic fertilizer
will not ensure
certifcation.
> ingredients were on the new organic guidelines list
but, with a
serious
> deficiency. Can you expand on this deficiency
| Message 26
Subject: Re: Outside Aquaponics -Correction
From: "gutierrez-lagatta"
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 11:59:15 -0500
Sorry - there is a typo here, it should read "#'s of
feed" NOT "3#'s
of feed", typing is definitely not my forte.
Adriana
> Jim Rakocy's recommendation for the ratio of
growbeds to fish is
based
> on 3#'s of feed as the input. This eliminates fish
density
variations
> in different systems. A search of the archives
should bring this
> information up, otherwise maybe Dr. R will break his
loooooong
silence
> and give us this information one more time.
| Message 27
Subject: Re: "Kool Ray" liquid shade
From: kris book
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 09:24:32 -0600
Shade cloth also takes a great deal of strain off of
the poly covering of
the greenhouse. I know that shade cloth tied to long
metal(screed)stakes
in the ground was the only reason my greenhouse was
still standing after
a 100 mph wind came along.
kris
| Message 28
Subject: Re: organic hydroponics
From: kris book
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 11:29:40 -0600
Adriana,
I have no interest in some bureaucracy's view of a
product, only if it is
safe and healthy to use. Do you see any red flags
associated with
Metanaturals?
kris
| Message 29
Subject: Re: Outside Aquaponics
From: "gutierrez-lagatta"
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 09:14:24 -0500
Lynn,
Jim Rakocy's recommendation for the ratio of growbeds
to fish is based
on 3#'s of feed as the input. This eliminates fish
density variations
in different systems. A search of the archives should
bring this
information up, otherwise maybe Dr. R will break his
loooooong silence
and give us this information one more time.
Adriana
> ). I understand that stocking density
> determines the level of nutrients in the effluent,
but that's easy
to
> change, compared to making the growbeds bigger or
smaller once they
are in
> place. How do I figure out much growbed it takes to
handle, say, 10
gallon
> per minute flow?
| Message 30
Subject: Re: mushrooms
From: Raul Vergueiro Martins
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 14:58:53 +0100
Hello Carlos:
I know that. You are correct.
But note that in my message, I said that I was
talking in simple words, as things were
much more complex than what I was talking about, and
that I would not reccomend mushroom
for beginners.
In other side I told too that, for those who wanted to
get in such a culture, I would
recommend for them to study carefully the physiology
of mushrooms, the traditional
systems, and to be prepared for a lot of headaches.
I want you to understand, as well as all the friends
of this list, that my intention was
to say that is is possible the hydroponic culture of
mushrooms, as I made it.
I told too, that A LOT OF RESEARCH IS NEEDED ON THAT
SUBJECT.
You know quite well how difficult is to produce
QUALITY mushrooms in a comercial scale,
for you to get profits with that. So difficult that
after many years of work , research
and lost money, you closed the doors.
You, better than I, are well prepared to advise the
friends of this list about mushroom
producing.
This list is devoted to Aquaponics, an Organic
Hydroponic System, and I believe that any
kind of system that can improove the basic system
about wich we talk here, should have to
be presented and discussed.
That is why many times I spoke here about agricultural
biodigesters.
The biological filters used in Aquaculture, are
biodigesters.
The gravel grow beds used in Paula's system, are
biodigesters.
The floating beds in Jim Rackocy's system, include a
biodigester inside them, though many
people don't see it.
The water in the Aquaponic System, is a diluted
biofertilizer.
Can we grow mushrooms Hydroponically? YES.
Is it an easy task? NO. No mushroom culture is an
easy task. If it was easy, anyone
could produce them, and they would not be so
expensive.
To produce one or two pounds of mushrooms with ready
kits as those sold by Crop King, is
just a hobby, and not a commercial system. Look at
the costs.
And finally, correct me if I am wrong, with the money
you expend to mount a laboratory and
the rooms or houses to produce mushrooms, you can
mount two or three greenhouses and
related equipment to produce lettuce.
Raul Vergueiro Martins
rvm 'at' sti.com.br
"Carlos R. Arano" wrote:
> Raul:Only one thing more about mushrooms.You
said:> On the other side, carbon dioxide
> is a need for a plant, but it is a poison to a
mushroom,
> > though mushrooms "excrete" lots of it.
> > That is why in the ambients where you cultivate
mushrooms, you need a high level of
> > ventilation to clean air from that gas.
> To cultivate mushrooms (Agaricus) to high
productivity conditions, it is convenient to
> keep the CO2 at a level of about 1000 ppm. Higher it
is a poison to them. At that level
> they grow better.Carlos R. Arano
> http://www.geocities.com/c_arano
> c_arano 'at' bigfoot.com
| Message 31
Subject: Outside aquaponics
From: "Leslie Ter Morshuizen"
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 20:06:51 +0200
Hi Attie
> I was thinking of using the same method that you
just described. Do you
> think one will get enough aeration with the return
flow?
Not unless the water trickling down the pot column
was exposed to
sufficient
air on the way down to become saturated with oxygen
and the fish were
stocked
at low densities. Even then it would be better to buy
a slightly larger
pump and use the excess purely for spraying back into
the water for
aeration. In a small setup this is will work fine,
but in a commerciaql
operation I would recommend using a blower to supply
sufficient aeration for
the fish tanks.
Can we purchase these vertigro type pots here in RSA?
> I was thinking of using Vertigro pots just before
the water returns to
> the fish tank. Since one has a flow rate of about 4
l/h down one column
> of pots, the water should be exposed to a lot of
air. This is if one can
> use gravel, or some other loose material, in the pot
as the grow medium.
> If there would be enough air movement in the pot
column is another
> question, since only a small surface area per pot is
exposed to the
> atmosphere. The way I would do this is to first let
the water flow
> through the gravel beds by means of gravity. Here
one must configure the
> piping such as to allow for an ebb and flow cycle in
the gravel bed.
How have you thought of doing this?
> This is crucial for the bacteria living on the
gravel as well as for
> aeration of the plant roots.
Beneficial for both, but not crucial for the bacteria
provided that the
water has a sufficiently high dissolved oxygen level.
> After the gravel bed I would place a sump
> with the water pump. An advantage would be that the
water at this point
> is clean and without any solids and filamentous
materials whish can
> cause blockages. From the sump, the water is pumped
to the top of the
> Vertigro pots and than allowed to trickle back to
the fish dam. Care
> should be taken, with designing of the system, to
make sure that the
> fish dam water can never drain to a level hazardous
to the fish.
This is a function of the ratio of the volume of the
fish dam and the sum
of
the volume of the pots.
> The only unknowns to me are the level of aeration
one can accomplish in
> this way and the maximum time the gravel beds can
be flooded before
> damage to the plant roots or bacteria occurs.
In these vertical systems the plants at the top would
get the most
nutrients and
the plant at the bottom the least. Does this not
effect the growth of the
tower of plants negatively?
Regards,
Leslie
| Message 32
Subject: Re: Outside Aquaponics
From: "Leslie Ter Morshuizen"
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 20:40:05 +0200
Hi Lynn
It is possible to theoretically calculate the exact
surface area of filter
medium, and therefore the volume, required to convert
1kg (2.2lbs for those
people not yet on metric) of feed to nitrate, given
you know the protein
content of the feed. However, there are many
variables that can/do affect
the accuracy of the result, so you have to build in
contingencies, which =
inefficiencies. This is the very essence of why
purchasing a system such as
S&S that has proven itself is a great way to start
out. The researchers
have done the experimenting for you and can give you
the guidelines to work
according to for your first set-up. Thereafter you
can experiment to your
hearts content and you have a control to compare the
results against.
Regards,
Leslie
> This is an interesting discussion for me, too, since
I'm still in the
> planning stage. I have a related question: how do
you determine the square
> (or is it cubic) footage of growbeds and sumps
needed to handle the amount
> of effluent coming from the tank? The amount of
water coming from the tank
> isn't too hard to calculate, as 'X' water changes
per hour are recommended
> and I'll know the gph of the pump(s). I understand
that stocking density
> determines the level of nutrients in the effluent,
but that's easy to
> change, compared to making the growbeds bigger or
smaller once they are in
> place. How do I figure out much growbed it takes to
handle, say, 10 gallon
> per minute flow?
> Lynn Wigglesworth
| Message 33
Subject: RE: mushrooms
From: "Carlos R. Arano"
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 17:08:45 -0300
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
=_NextPart_000_002C_01C1139A.220DB6E0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Raul:
OK. Now I'm agree with you.=20
In fact, to have a medium size moderatly equiped
mushroom industry in =
Argentina you need at least 1 million dollars. And I
think I can be =
short on this quick evaluation.
Regards,
Carlos R. Arano
http://www.geocities.com/c_arano
c_arano 'at' bigfoot.com
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Raul Vergueiro Martins
To:
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2001 10:58 AM
Subject: Re: mushrooms
> Hello Carlos:
>=20
> I know that. You are correct.
> But note that in my message, I said that I was
talking in simple =
words, as things were
> much more complex than what I was talking about, and
that I would not =
reccomend mushroom
> for beginners.
> In other side I told too that, for those who wanted
to get in such a =
culture, I would
> recommend for them to study carefully the physiology
of mushrooms, the =
traditional
> systems, and to be prepared for a lot of headaches.
> I want you to understand, as well as all the friends
of this list, =
that my intention was
> to say that is is possible the hydroponic culture of
mushrooms, as I =
made it.
> I told too, that A LOT OF RESEARCH IS NEEDED ON THAT
SUBJECT.
> You know quite well how difficult is to produce
QUALITY mushrooms in a =
comercial scale,
> for you to get profits with that. So difficult
that after many years =
of work , research
> and lost money, you closed the doors.
> You, better than I, are well prepared to advise the
friends of this =
list about mushroom
> producing.
> This list is devoted to Aquaponics, an Organic
Hydroponic System, and =
I believe that any
> kind of system that can improove the basic system
about wich we talk =
here, should have to
> be presented and discussed.
> That is why many times I spoke here about
agricultural biodigesters.
> The biological filters used in Aquaculture, are
biodigesters.
> The gravel grow beds used in Paula's system, are
biodigesters.
> The floating beds in Jim Rackocy's system, include a
biodigester =
inside them, though many
> people don't see it.
> The water in the Aquaponic System, is a diluted
biofertilizer.
> Can we grow mushrooms Hydroponically? YES.
> Is it an easy task? NO. No mushroom culture is
an easy task. If =
it was easy, anyone
> could produce them, and they would not be so
expensive.
> To produce one or two pounds of mushrooms with ready
kits as those =
sold by Crop King, is
> just a hobby, and not a commercial system. Look at
the costs.
> And finally, correct me if I am wrong, with the
money you expend to =
mount a laboratory and
> the rooms or houses to produce mushrooms, you can
mount two or three =
greenhouses and
> related equipment to produce lettuce.
>=20
> Raul Vergueiro Martins
> rvm 'at' sti.com.br
>=20
> "Carlos R. Arano" wrote:
>=20
> > Raul:Only one thing more about mushrooms.You
said:> On the other =
side, carbon dioxide
> > is a need for a plant, but it is a poison to a
mushroom,
> > > though mushrooms "excrete" lots of it.
> > > That is why in the ambients where you cultivate
mushrooms, you =
need a high level of
> > > ventilation to clean air from that gas.
> > To cultivate mushrooms (Agaricus) to high
productivity conditions, =
it is convenient to
> > keep the CO2 at a level of about 1000 ppm. Higher
it is a poison to =
them. At that level
> > they grow better.Carlos R. Arano
> > http://www.geocities.com/c_arano
> > c_arano 'at' bigfoot.com
=_NextPart_000_002C_01C1139A.220DB6E0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Raul:
OK. Now I'm agree with you.
In fact, to have a medium size
moderatly=20
equiped mushroom industry in Argentina you need
at least 1 million =
dollars.=20
And I think I can be short on this quick
evaluation.
Regards,
Carlos R.=20
Arano
http://www.geocities.com/c_aran=
o
c_arano 'at' bigfoot.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Raul Vergueiro Martins
<rvm 'at' sti.com.br>
To: <aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com>
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2001
10:58 =
AM
Subject: Re:
mushrooms
> Hello
Carlos:
>
> I =
know=20
that. You are correct.
> But note
that in my =
message, I=20
said that I was talking in simple words, as things
were
> much =
more=20
complex than what I was talking about, and that I
would not reccomend=20
mushroom
> for beginners.
> In other side
I told too that, =
for those=20
who wanted to get in such a culture, I would
>
recommend for them =
to study=20
carefully the physiology of mushrooms, the
traditional
> systems, =
and to=20
be prepared for a lot of headaches.
> I want you
to understand, as =
well as=20
all the friends of this list, that my intention
was
> to say that =
is is=20
possible the hydroponic culture of mushrooms, as I
made it.
> I =
told too,=20
that A LOT OF RESEARCH IS NEEDED ON THAT
SUBJECT.
> You know quite =
well=20
how difficult is to produce QUALITY mushrooms in a
comercial =
scale,
> for=20
you to get profits with that. So difficult
that after many =
years of=20
work , research
> and lost money, you closed the
doors.
> =
You,=20
better than I, are well prepared to advise the friends
of this list =
about=20
mushroom
> producing.
> This list is
devoted to Aquaponics, =
an=20
Organic Hydroponic System, and I believe that
any
> kind of system =
that=20
can improove the basic system about wich we talk here,
should have =
to
> be=20
presented and discussed.
> That is why many
times I spoke here =
about=20
agricultural biodigesters.
> The biological
filters used in =
Aquaculture,=20
are biodigesters.
> The gravel grow beds used in
Paula's system, =
are=20
biodigesters.
> The floating beds in Jim
Rackocy's system, include =
a=20
biodigester inside them, though many
> people
don't see =
it.
> The=20
water in the Aquaponic System, is a diluted
biofertilizer.
> Can =
we grow=20
mushrooms Hydroponically? YES.
> Is
it an easy=20
task? NO. No mushroom culture
is an easy=20
task. If it was easy, anyone
> could
produce them, and =
they=20
would not be so expensive.
> To produce one or
two pounds of =
mushrooms=20
with ready kits as those sold by Crop King, is
>
just a hobby, and =
not a=20
commercial system. Look at the
costs.
> And finally, =
correct=20
me if I am wrong, with the money you expend to mount a
laboratory =
and
>=20
the rooms or houses to produce mushrooms, you
can mount two or =
three=20
greenhouses and
> related equipment to produce
lettuce.
> =
>=20
Raul Vergueiro Martins
> rvm 'at' sti.com.br
>
> =
"Carlos R.=20
Arano" wrote:
>
> >
Raul:Only one thing more =
about=20
mushrooms.You said:> On the other side, carbon
dioxide
> > =
is a need=20
for a plant, but it is a poison to a mushroom,
>
> > though=20
mushrooms "excrete" lots of it.
> > > That
is why in the =
ambients=20
where you cultivate mushrooms, you need a high level
of
> > =
>=20
ventilation to clean air from that gas.
> >
To cultivate =
mushrooms=20
(Agaricus) to high productivity conditions, it
is convenient =
to
>=20
> keep the CO2 at a level of about 1000 ppm. Higher
it is a poison to =
them.=20
At that level
> > they grow better.Carlos R.
Arano
> > =
http://www.geocities.com/c_aran=
o
>=20
> c_arano 'at' bigfoot.com=
=_NextPart_000_002C_01C1139A.220DB6E0--
| Message 34
Subject: Re: mushrooms
From: Raul Vergueiro Martins
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 20:54:33 +0100
Hello Carlos:
Finally we agree in something :>)
So this is science
Raul Vergueiro Martins
rvm 'at' sti.com.br
"Carlos R. Arano" wrote:
> Raul:OK. Now I'm agree with you.In fact, to have a
medium size moderatly equiped
> mushroom industry in Argentina you need at least 1
million dollars. And I think I can be
> short on this quick evaluation.Regards,Carlos R.
Arano
> http://www.geocities.com/c_arano
> c_arano 'at' bigfoot.com ----- Original Message
-----From: Raul Vergueiro Martins
> To: Sent:
Monday, July 23, 2001 10:58 AMSubject:
> Re: mushrooms > Hello Carlos:
> >
> > I know that. You are correct.
> > But note that in my message, I said that I was
talking in simple words, as things
> were
> > much more complex than what I was talking about,
and that I would not reccomend
> mushroom
> > for beginners.
> > In other side I told too that, for those who
wanted to get in such a culture, I would
> > recommend for them to study carefully the
physiology of mushrooms, the traditional
> > systems, and to be prepared for a lot of
headaches.
> > I want you to understand, as well as all the
friends of this list, that my intention
> was
> > to say that is is possible the hydroponic culture
of mushrooms, as I made it.
> > I told too, that A LOT OF RESEARCH IS NEEDED ON
THAT SUBJECT.
> > You know quite well how difficult is to produce
QUALITY mushrooms in a comercial
> scale,
> > for you to get profits with that. So difficult
that after many years of work ,
> research
> > and lost money, you closed the doors.
> > You, better than I, are well prepared to advise
the friends of this list about
> mushroom
> > producing.
> > This list is devoted to Aquaponics, an Organic
Hydroponic System, and I believe that
> any
> > kind of system that can improove the basic system
about wich we talk here, should have
> to
> > be presented and discussed.
> > That is why many times I spoke here about
agricultural biodigesters.
> > The biological filters used in Aquaculture, are
biodigesters.
> > The gravel grow beds used in Paula's system, are
biodigesters.
> > The floating beds in Jim Rackocy's system, include
a biodigester inside them, though
> many
> > people don't see it.
> > The water in the Aquaponic System, is a diluted
biofertilizer.
> > Can we grow mushrooms Hydroponically? YES.
> > Is it an easy task? NO. No mushroom culture is
an easy task. If it was easy,
> anyone
> > could produce them, and they would not be so
expensive.
> > To produce one or two pounds of mushrooms with
ready kits as those sold by Crop King,
> is
> > just a hobby, and not a commercial system. Look
at the costs.
> > And finally, correct me if I am wrong, with the
money you expend to mount a laboratory
> and
> > the rooms or houses to produce mushrooms, you can
mount two or three greenhouses and
> > related equipment to produce lettuce.
> >
> > Raul Vergueiro Martins
> > rvm 'at' sti.com.br
> >
> > "Carlos R. Arano" wrote:
> >
> > > Raul:Only one thing more about mushrooms.You
said:> On the other side, carbon
> dioxide
> > > is a need for a plant, but it is a poison to a
mushroom,
> > > > though mushrooms "excrete" lots of it.
> > > > That is why in the ambients where you
cultivate mushrooms, you need a high level
> of
> > > > ventilation to clean air from that gas.
> > > To cultivate mushrooms (Agaricus) to high
productivity conditions, it is convenient
> to
> > > keep the CO2 at a level of about 1000 ppm.
Higher it is a poison to them. At that
> level
> > > they grow better.Carlos R. Arano
> > > http://www.geocities.com/c_arano
> > > c_arano 'at' bigfoot.com
| Message 35
Subject: Re: Fish Species for Aquaponics
From: "STEVE SPRING"
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 19:23:31 -0500
Hi Kris,
I'm nowhere near as knowledgeable as you are with
greenhouse production. I
even had to print out your response to be sure that I
responded to all
aspects.
You are 100% correct that I am totally ignorant (my
words) with CO2
injection. (I also wish to remain that way.) (Also,
with bumblebees
I
don't even like mosquitoes
much less being stung to
death by an angry
bumblebee swarm.) Besides this, you stated that "
raising CO2 levels alone
will only boost production a small amount". No, my
grow-lights are not on
"light movers". This is something else that I might
have to invest in.
Now, on to hybrid bluegills vs. Pacu. 2 things that
I'm going to do that I
know absolutely nothing about. I've tried Perch,
bluegills & catfish in my
pond. Well, the catfish ate ALL of the perch and
bluegills. I now have a
bunch of sh.t
fish in my pond. They are a result of
the Koi breeding. I'm
hoping the remaining catfish eat all of them before it
is time to restock.
If not, I'll have to "kill" the pond. On this note,
does anyone know
anything about "shocking" the pond. I understand this
can be done without
killing everything.
Pacu: I'm still waiting for a reasonable price for
stocking them. I will be
stocking these in my recirculating system. You see, I
have 2 systems: my
aquaculture system (the pond) and my aquaponics system
(the farm).
I should know more about the above-mentioned in a
couple of months.
As far as your thinking that this post may be
off-topic, I can't think of a
more "right on" topic than this.
Yours truly
.Steve (Hope to see ya in NC)
----- Original Message -----
From: "kris book"
To:
Cc:
Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2001 12:50 PM
Subject: Re: Fish Species for Aquaponics
Steve,
My wife, Allison and I grew organic veggies year round
for 7 years at
about 6,000 feet above sea level. We actually had
better crops in the
middle of winter because the is no heat build up, and
we didn't have to
vent as often to maintain a good temperature
parameters. I'm not sure if
you're versed in CO2 injection but, I'll assume that
you're not. I found
that most plants thrive with up to 2,000 ppm(parts per
million), more
than that becomes toxic to the plants. It's hard on
human breathing too
but, I got used to it. The air we breathe averages
about 300 ppm.
When levels are that high (2,000ppm), it's best to
only spend a few
minutes at a time in the greenhouse. The best time to
inject CO2 is about
3 hours after sun up and for about three hours keep
the levels at 2,000
or until the greenhouse gets so warm that you have to
vent. I should
mention that I was using a semi organic hydroponic
system, not aquaponics
but, I believe that tanks could be fitted with
removable lids to keep all
that CO2 out of the fish tanks for the 3 hours that
you are injecting.
At this point I should add that raising CO2 levels
alone will only boost
production a small amount. Plants need a balance of
increased light,
nutrients, and CO2 to make a big difference in yield.
When this balance
is achieved, plants can thrive on a nutrient solution
that would have
burned your plants without extra light and CO2. Plants
grown in this
enhanced environment can take a lot more heat, as long
as they receive
extra moisture too. 100 degrees is acceptable, as long
as the total
balance is there.
I think I remember you mentioning gro-lights in your
greenhouse. Are they
on light movers. This is very important to give all
the plants equal
light or the plants on the fringe will suffer very
much. I hope to visit
some day and see your operation. When I start my
aquaponics system, I
think I'll go with bluegill hybrids, unless your pacu
prove to be as
versatile.
If there are people out there that think that this
post is off-topic,
please speak up and I'll take future posts like this
to a private place.
I think that it is important to make production equal
twelve months a
year, in any climate.
k
| Message 36
Subject: Re: Let's leave a list for Paula
From: dreadlox 'at' cwjamaica.com
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 20:18:27 -0700
Kris, as an oldtimer here
I can say this
(David
Atkinson said it all
so well already)
. we LOOSE each time we set up a new
list. I HAVE
tried setting up a list for folks in this side of the
world with inputs
relevant to US here, but U know what?? I found that i
STILL had to cut
and paste good topics from our list here for them to
get the message. My
idea of setting up a Jamaica specific group wasnt
WRONG, but I am
speaking from experience when I say that taking away
from the group's
energy helps weaken the potency of this group. As
Pablo said
(Heyyyy
Pablo, welcome back
) we HAVE discussed this "biogas"
thing in the
past, it wasnt a sin then, and Raul, Adrianna and
others apparently
worked hard at an actual biodigester design OFFLIST.
Kris, I must be honest when I say a few folks who are
complaining are
not known to me as "regulars", that is not to say
their voice is not
important, it is just to say, they MAY have not
appreciated the openness
that was once here on this list. That is fine
a list
is dynamic.
Just be careful about splitting up
. (Sidebar
Jamaica has the most
rum bars and churches in the world per square km. so
we know what we are
talking about
.lol)
So you have the key to the digestion list.
I will resubscribe too
Is it a suggestion to just let us all interested in
this BIODIGESTION
thing subscribe there
.?? We can all gang up on the
brains there and
not only the brains there are challenged and
stimulated but we also
maintain the "potency" here without having to take
anything "outside".
This way we dont have a "sedgeway" group feeling like
the ORIGINAL group
is so formal we CANT discuss things here.
Again, let me say, we have NEVER had so many mails re
hurt feelings and
unsubs as we have in the last 2 months
Can all interested in biodigestion then sign on oever
at CREST??
Thanks for telling us how it worked Kris. All groups
at CREST can be
subscribed to as you said. (same format).
In all the years Ive been here Ive NEVER seen Paula
act as a draconian
lady who cant wait to "buzz" offenders
. and believe
me "I" have
offended. How about sending MASSIVE pictures/files to
the list for
starters by mistake? Calm cool and easy. Paula is not
in the least as
"scary" as some would have her seem. I think she
clearly stated her open
door policy, so we need not be too touchy about what
is discussed and
what not, as long as REASONABLE connection can be
drawn by the topic we
wish to discuss to AQUAPONICS.
I said before, this biodigestion topic has to do with,
--- > Hydronic heating of greenhouses burning biogas,
--- > Direct heating with biogas burners
--- > Sterilization of nutrient water using gas.
--- > Getting rid of fish poop, and compost from
clarifiers
--- > Increasing CO2 levels in greenhouses with
natural gases.--- > POWERING our reserve power systems with
biogas/diesel gensets.
etc etc etc. I dont know how this is NOT relevant to
aqua/hydroponics. I
can however appreciate when we begin tooo technical
that it irks some
folks.
See there is no need to be scared, just considerate!
Ok, Im headed over to digestion 'at' CREST now too!! Any
others coming???
Mike
JAMAICA
kris book wrote:
>
> Mike,
>
> Getting on that digestion list was a real pain. I
even ended up at the
> home page and copied the instructions and that
didn't work either. Then I
> sent three different e-mails moving the "subscribe"
to different places
> and finally I sent it like this and it worked.
> digestionsubscribe 'at' crest.org in the send to box and
everything else
> blank.
>
> Look everyone, it has been 9 days since the first
mushroom and
> biodigester discussion began. I have received 5
personal requests to
> continue off-line and we've had 7 or 8 members voice
their opinion to
> continue on the aquqaponics list.
| Message 37
Subject: Re: On and Off Topic Ponderings (Not Too
Long)
From: marc 'at' aculink.net
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 19:37:11 -0600
As a response to some posts on the Sunday Digest:
For what it's worth I am considering the end of
involvement
with the Aquaponics Newsgroup for two reasons:
1. The elitist arrogance of self declared creative and
lateral thinkers who cared little for the protests of
others
and responded with off topic intellectual retching and
flatus designed to discount the protesters wants,
needs and
desires.
2. The incredible amount of off topic BS that fills my
mailbox each day.
(Offended by the above? There is hope. Counseling by
a
qualified person with lots of hard recovery work and
many
people make significant gains with some living out a
reasonably productive life.)
Today I got NINETY FIVE THOUSAND BYTES - 95 KB - from
the
Aquaponics newsgroup on the digest list. Some on topic
but
lots of BEEEEEEEE ESSSSSSSSSS which belongs on other
newsgroups or in chat rooms IMHO.
Regarding my offensiveness - as a social visionary and
sensitive person who has a high level of concern and
consideration for others once said:
"Normally, I wouldn't pay much attention to
complaining"
so was profoundly inspired to emulate this advanced
social
vision for world betterment. We can all learn from
creative
lateral thinkers.
Of course my desires are irrelevant in the greater
scheme of
things. Just do the creative lateral stinking - oops -
thinking thing and I'm another piece of road kill on
the
sole of an Olympian gods boot.
Squisho Minimus,
Marc
| Message 38
Subject: Re: Let's leave a list for Paula
From: "Arlos"
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 19:09:26 -0700
Mike,
I have to agree on every point including the church
and rum shop. it was
the same living on Virgin Gorda where rum was cheaper
than fruit juice.
Arlos
-----Original Message-----
From: dreadlox 'at' cwjamaica.com
To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
Date: Monday, July 23, 2001 6:14 PM
Subject: Re: Let's leave a list for Paula
>Kris, as an oldtimer here
I can say this
(David
Atkinson said it all
>so well already)
. we LOOSE each time we set up a
new list. I HAVE
>tried setting up a list for folks in this side of the
world with inputs
>relevant to US here, but U know what?? I found that i
STILL had to cut
>and paste good topics from our list here for them to
get the message. My
>idea of setting up a Jamaica specific group wasnt
WRONG, but I am
>speaking from experience when I say that taking away
from the group's
>energy helps weaken the potency of this group. As
Pablo said
(Heyyyy
>Pablo, welcome back
) we HAVE discussed this
"biogas" thing in the
>past, it wasnt a sin then, and Raul, Adrianna and
others apparently
>worked hard at an actual biodigester design OFFLIST.
>
>Kris, I must be honest when I say a few folks who are
complaining are
>not known to me as "regulars", that is not to say
their voice is not
>important, it is just to say, they MAY have not
appreciated the openness
>that was once here on this list. That is fine
a
list is dynamic.
>Just be careful about splitting up
. (Sidebar
Jamaica has the most
>rum bars and churches in the world per square km. so
we know what we are
>talking about
.lol)
>So you have the key to the digestion list.
>I will resubscribe too
>
>Is it a suggestion to just let us all interested in
this BIODIGESTION
>thing subscribe there
.?? We can all gang up on the
brains there and
>not only the brains there are challenged and
stimulated but we also
>maintain the "potency" here without having to take
anything "outside".
>This way we dont have a "sedgeway" group feeling like
the ORIGINAL group
>is so formal we CANT discuss things here.
>
>Again, let me say, we have NEVER had so many mails re
hurt feelings and
>unsubs as we have in the last 2 months
>
>Can all interested in biodigestion then sign on oever
at CREST??
>
>Thanks for telling us how it worked Kris. All groups
at CREST can be
>subscribed to as you said. (same format).
>In all the years Ive been here Ive NEVER seen Paula
act as a draconian
>lady who cant wait to "buzz" offenders
. and believe
me "I" have
>offended. How about sending MASSIVE pictures/files to
the list for
>starters by mistake? Calm cool and easy. Paula is not
in the least as
>"scary" as some would have her seem. I think she
clearly stated her open
>door policy, so we need not be too touchy about what
is discussed and
>what not, as long as REASONABLE connection can be
drawn by the topic we
>wish to discuss to AQUAPONICS.
>I said before, this biodigestion topic has to do
with,
>
>--- > Hydronic heating of greenhouses burning biogas,
>--- > Direct heating with biogas burners
>--- > Sterilization of nutrient water using gas.
>--- > Getting rid of fish poop, and compost from
clarifiers
>--- > Increasing CO2 levels in greenhouses with
natural gases.>--- > POWERING our reserve power systems with
biogas/diesel gensets.
>
>etc etc etc. I dont know how this is NOT relevant to
aqua/hydroponics. I
>can however appreciate when we begin tooo technical
that it irks some
>folks.>
>See there is no need to be scared, just considerate!
>Ok, Im headed over to digestion 'at' CREST now too!! Any
others coming???
>
>
>Mike
>JAMAICA
>
>
>
>
>
>kris book wrote:
>>
>> Mike,
>>
>> Getting on that digestion list was a real pain. I
even ended up at the
>> home page and copied the instructions and that
didn't work either. Then I
>> sent three different e-mails moving the "subscribe"
to different places
>> and finally I sent it like this and it worked.
>> digestionsubscribe 'at' crest.org in the send to box
and everything else
>> blank.
>>
>> Look everyone, it has been 9 days since the first
mushroom and
>> biodigester discussion began. I have received 5
personal requests to
>> continue off-line and we've had 7 or 8 members
voice their opinion to
>> continue on the aquqaponics list.
>
| Message 39
Subject: Re: my system diagrams
From: "David Atkinson"
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 22:18:30 -0400
Hi Mike,
I was able to access the diagrams. I have the latest
version of WinZip.
Had to unzip the files first before I was able to view
the contents.
David A.
(atkindw 'at' cybervale.com)
http://www.symmcorp.com/datkinson
"Your health is our concern"
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2001 5:00 PM
Subject: Re: my system diagrams
> Was anyone able to get to these pics?? They dont
seem to work for me
> :( .
>
> Mike
>
>
| Message 40
Subject: Luminescence on Fish body
From: dreadlox 'at' cwjamaica.com
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 22:36:28 -0700
Does anyone have any experiences with fish diseases
that seem to give of
a light eerie glow??
Likewise, am I just seeing things when I see changes
in coloration when
the tilapia females are swishing eggs? (in the mouth)
For the first question, this is happening to some
siclets. Im wondering
if it just them going through puberty and getting
their green
epaulettes?? :>
Thanks for any replies
Mike.
| Message 41
Subject: Re: On and Off Topic Ponderings (Not Too
Long)
From: kris book
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 21:56:54 -0600
Marc,
I think you want the wine list.
kris
| Message 42
Subject: Fw: Re: lists
From: kris book
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 21:42:33 -0600
--- Forwarded message ----
From: "STEVE SPRING"
To: "kris book"
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 19:52:33 -0500
Subject: Re: lists
Message-ID: <005c01c113da$ed837c20$af56cfa9 'at' pcareplus>
References:
<20010718.233053.-1317035.14.krisbook 'at' juno.com>
Hi Kris,
I don't think that I have to check any posts. I may be
an outlaw on this
list, but, pls. remember that I am one who will try
something unique and
possibly lose money, but I will try it anyway and
report this to the
list.
For example, I can't wait to report on my growing of
Stella de Ora
daylillies and Cannas in my pond. Tremendous
success.(Idea from
Aquaponics
Journal.)
I'm also the first on this list to break with the
traditional Tilapia and
to
try Pacu. I may be "Mr. Socially Insensitive" but I am
not afraid to try
something different and report the results.
I'm also trying basil in the growbeds. Not only seeds,
but basil
cuttings.
And not using growlights, but using fluorescent
lights
.GREAT SUCCESS!
(100%) Also trying peach tree saplings to grow peach
trees
still in the
process!
I hope to be taking some pictures tomorrow and will be
sending these to
the
list in the next few days. FELLOW LIST MEMBERS: DON'T
BE AFRAID OF A
VIRUS
WHEN YOU SEE AN ATTACHMENT FROM ME. Just open it. It
will be a picture
of
something.
Hope to see ya'll in NC!
Later
.Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "kris book"
To:
Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2001 12:30 AM
Subject: Re: lists
Steve,
Check Paula's post from earlier today, I been checking
it out and you're
going to have to follow the instructions and stay on
topic. Hey, check
out the new aquaponics list, they have 5 members
already. Technical only
, you know! LOL
Back to the pacu, what's the minimum water temp that
they can thrive in.
And do you think they will coexist with bluegill?
k
| Message 43
Subject: Re: Luminescence on Fish body
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 22:58:22 -0500
At 10:36 PM 07/23/2001 -0700, Mike wrote:
>Does anyone have any experiences with fish diseases
that seem to give of
>a light eerie glow??
>For the first question, this is happening to some
siclets. Im wondering
>if it just them going through puberty and getting
their green
>epaulettes?? :>
Mike, I'm not the "fish person" here, but we have an
executive (from
Monsanto, no less!) who stops by each year after his
annual vacation in the
Ozarks to buy a half dozen small fish for his
aquarium(s). After helping
him choose his fish a couple years, it's very evident
that some of the small
tilapia have quite a bit of coloration (on towards
green, "shimmery" if
that's a word, and sort of shifting). I don't think
it's unusual, but since
we don't normally have any in glass aquariums it's
just something we hadn't
seen. I do think they lose this before they reach
market size, and I would
be very interested if it's an indication of disease of
any sort.
Paula
S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO
65775 417-256-5124
Web page http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
| Message 44
Subject: Attachments and graphics & lists
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 23:10:00 -0500
At 09:42 PM 07/23/2001 -0600, Kris forwarded from
Steve Spring:
>I hope to be taking some pictures tomorrow and will
be sending these to
>the
>list in the next few days. FELLOW LIST MEMBERS: DON'T
BE AFRAID OF A
>VIRUS WHEN YOU SEE AN ATTACHMENT FROM ME. Just open
it. It will be a picture
>of something.
Steve - if you'll remember, not very long ago we had
some problems with
attachments
and just because you say it's safe
doesn't mean that people
will feel secure in opening it. There is a size
maximum per post, and I
don't think your pictures will clear it. How about
putting them on a
website and posting the URL?
Kris wrote:
>Steve,
>
>Check Paula's post from earlier today, I been
checking it out and you're
>going to have to follow the instructions and stay on
topic.
Kris - While I think it's important to stay relevant
to aquaponics, I don't
think I mentioned anything on the 19th except to
eliminate the HTML posts
and peoples' habit of quoting back entire threads in
every post. I can
guarantee you that a lot more light-hearted posts
would be tolerated if they
didn't contain everything that had already been posted
on the subject.
>Hey, check
>out the new aquaponics list, they have 5 members
already. Technical only
>, you know! LOL
And you've taken it where?
Paula
S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO
65775 417-256-5124
Web page http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
|
