Aquaponics Digest - Thu 07/26/01
Message 1: RE: Aquaponics Digest - Tue 07/24/01
from "Mark Allen Wells"
Message 2: RE: Aquaponics Digest - Tue 07/24/01 (PS)
from "Mark Allen Wells"
Message 3: Re: Aquaponics, Sales, Grower Attitude
from marc 'at' aculink.net
Message 4: RE: Hanging Pots V Growbeds
from "Hurst, Steve ( China)"
Message 5: Re: 12 volt sump/bilge pump safety
from "Attie Esterhuyse"
Message 6: Safety
from "Pete and Diana Scholtens"
Message 7: Re: Safety
from "Arlos"
Message 8: Hanging pots vs grow beds
from kris book
Message 9: Re: 12 volt sump/bilge pump safety
from "Nick"
Message 10: Re: 12 volt sump/bilge pump safety
from "gerry magnuson"
Message 11: Re: 12 volt sump/bilge pump safety
from Andrei.Calciu 'at' hn.va.nec.com
Message 12: Re: 12 volt sump/bilge pump safety
from "gerry magnuson"
Message 13: Re: 12 volt sump/bilge pump safety
from "Arlos"
Message 14: Re: 12 volt sump/bilge pump safety
from "Arlos"
Message 15: RE: Safety
from "Chris Jeppesen"
Message 16: Instrumentation
from "Mark Allen Wells"
Message 17: NC workshop
from Andrei.Calciu 'at' hn.va.nec.com
Message 18: Re: 12 volt sump/bilge pump safety
from "Chris Jeppesen"
Message 19: RE: Aquaponics, Sales, Grower Attitude
from "Mark Allen Wells"
Message 20: Measurements
from Andrei.Calciu 'at' hn.va.nec.com
Message 21: Re: Safety
from kris book
Message 22: it is always good to have visitors as you
say
from "gerry magnuson"
Message 23: Re: Safety
from "gerry magnuson"
Message 24: Re: 12 volt sump/bilge pump safety
from marc 'at' aculink.net
Message 25: Fw: Resources List
from kris book
Message 26: Re: Instrumentation
from "Thomas Short"
Message 27: Re: no thanks
from kris book
Message 28: Re: no thanks
from kris book
Message 29: Lightning protection
from "Arlos"
Message 30: RE: Instrumentation
from "Mark Allen Wells"
Message 31: Re: Biogas
from "Brent Bingham"
Message 32: RE: Biogas
from "Mark Allen Wells"
Message 33: Re: Greenwater sludge>>methane
from "Brent Bingham"
Message 34: RE: Greenwater sludge>>methane
from "Mark Allen Wells"
Message 35: Re: Greenwater sludge>>methane
from "Brent Bingham"
Message 36: New Business
from "Leon Klopfenstein"
Message 37: Re: Lightning protection
from Peggy & Emmett
Message 38: RE: Hanging pots vs grow beds
from "Hurst, Steve ( China)"
Message 39: RE: 12 volt sump/bilge pump safety
from "Hurst, Steve ( China)"
Message 40: Re: Hanging pots vs grow beds
from fishmanbruce 'at' webtv.net (Bruce
Schreiber)
Message 41: Re: Hanging pots vs grow beds
from kris book
Message 42: RE: Greenwater sludge>>methane
from "Hurst, Steve ( China)"
Message 43: Re: Hanging pots vs grow beds
from kris book
Message 44: Re: helping shy lurkers
from fishmanbruce 'at' webtv.net (Bruce
Schreiber)
Message 45: Re: Hanging pots vs grow beds
from fishmanbruce 'at' webtv.net (Bruce
Schreiber)
Message 46: Fwd. new insurance program to target the
fast-growing fish
farming
from S & S Aqua Farm
Message 47: RE: Greenwater sludge>>methane
from "Mark Allen Wells"
Message 48: RE: Hanging pots vs grow beds
from "Hurst, Steve ( China)"
Message 49: Need pumps?
from "Thomas Short"
| Message 1
Subject: RE: Aquaponics Digest - Tue 07/24/01
From: "Mark Allen Wells"
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 00:33:17 -0500
>Have you ever considered psychoanalysis ? It can be
quite helpfull in
dealing
with stressfull situations.
LOL
.been there done that. No worries friend. I'm
fine. The
only reasons those apologies came up was in RESPONSE
to others,
not a need to use this forum as therapy
.LOL. I'm an
open
book
.sometimes too open for my own good
but it's
who I
am. My apology to marc and my explanation of why I
write the
way that I do has served it's purpose
.to turn a bad
situation
into a good one
.I was an elitist, now I am a friend.
I know
what the list is for and if you read the questions I
have been
asking you will see that
.*smiling*. When I say that
this list
and group has reconnected me with something I lost, it
is in
appreciation and in thanks
.many give a lot of
themselves to make
this work. Although I am new, I try to also. Back to
fish and
plants now
.LOL
.take care.
Mark
| Message 2
Subject: RE: Aquaponics Digest - Tue 07/24/01 (PS)
From: "Mark Allen Wells"
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 00:40:33 -0500
>Have you ever considered psychoanalysis ? It can be
quite helpfull in
dealing with stressfull situations.
ps
NONE of the therapy that I went through has helped
as much
as playing with my fish
.LOL.
| Message 3
Subject: Re: Aquaponics, Sales, Grower Attitude
From: marc 'at' aculink.net
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 23:57:48 -0600
I think this is significant in terms of success in
Aquaponics.
I rarely hear of reasonably intelligent, talented and
hard
working folks failing to produce a product.
I do hear of those that have gobs of product and NO
SALES.
What Mark is presenting is not a smiley face - he
presents a
commitment to valuing relationships by the willingness
to
pursue, risk rejection and nurture them without a
price tag.
Business returns are often considered directly
proportional
to risk and Mark is hanging it out there to get a kick
in
the teeth. A few folks will but I put my money on most
folks
feeling a trust and letting their guard down. As long
as
Mark can weather the "kicks" I think he'll have a
solid
following.
I have heard most often that 80% of the battle is the
people
part.
In other words - after one gets the fish a growing
whatcha
going to do with them?
Marc Nameth
Mark Allen Wells wrote:
.> asking you will see that
.*smiling*. When I say
that
this list
> and group has reconnected me with something I lost,
it is in
> appreciation and in thanks
.many give a lot of
themselves to make
> this work. Although I am new, I try to also. Back
to fish and
> plants now
.LOL
.take care.>
> Mark
| Message 4
Subject: RE: Hanging Pots V Growbeds
From: "Hurst, Steve ( China)"
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 15:31:04 +0800
Hi Guys,
Newbie question, I have been following the thread
about Hanging pots,
and I am a bit confused.
What advantage is there to using Hanging pots
as opposed to a grow bed ?
Only thing I can think of, is maybe its good for space
conservation,
or maybe certain types of plants grow better in
hanging pots.
Am I missing something here ?
Apreciate any help with this.
Steve H
| Message 5
Subject: Re: 12 volt sump/bilge pump safety
From: "Attie Esterhuyse"
Date: 26 Jul 2001 12:37:20 +0200
Arlos
What you say is valid. I also work in an industrial
environment and have played
around with an old 12 V DC battery and generator/motor
on the farm when I was a
kid. One must never touch any electrical circuit if it
is not properly isolated,
since you never know what current is flowing or what
the potential difference
might be. Anything can have some danger if you use it
incorrectly, I agree, but
all this does not mean that one must be afraid to
change your motor vehicles 12
V battery. Remember that the one terminal (-) of the
battery is connected to the
metal of the vehicle itself. When you test a solar
panel you do a short circuit
test, which means that you place the ammeter in the
circuit and record the
current flowing. Nobody that I know of ever got
shocked doing this. As you said,
it is only when you disconnect the circuit that
something might happen. How
large was that PV installation, must have been quite a
current flowing.
Me personally think that the risk of a child drowning
in a fishpond is a lot
greater then any serious injury from a 12 V DC pump.
Maybe the child can put his
fingers in the impeller, but that is also very
unlikely. All in all it is a lot
saver to use low current DC in a wet environment than
AC. If the equipment is
properly earthed, nothing serious should happen.
Swimming pool pump motors are
220 V AC, in my part of the world, probably 110 V AC
in yours. Does any one of
us think twice before we jump in the swimming pool?
Maybe if the water is very
cold yes, but definitely not because there is an
electrical motor somewhere. On
farms we use submersible pumps in boreholes. These
pumps are three phase and
running on 380 V AC. The design is such that the motor
rotor actually runs in a
water glycol mixture. The glycol is added as bearing
lubricant. After one has
loaded a lot of alfalfa (Lucerne) bales in the hot
sun, there is nothing better
then to drink some cold water straight from the
borehole. So there is plenty of
electricity close to water.
Best regards,
Attie
Arlos wrote:
> Bruce,
>
> Aside from you, Attie, myself and others may
handle an electrical device
> regardless of line voltage. I would never never
imply its safety due to
> liability. Though a 12v pump may be considered a toy
when compared to a 480
> 3 phase VAC pump. I've been zapped enough times
working on remote SCATA
> systems which were low voltage DC PV systems with 12
VDC battery back up
> built without disconnects. Mark, Mike and anyone
else having worked around
> industrial equipment are oriented to the use of a
"Lockout/ Tagout"
> training which would include not walking into a body
of water with a pump of
> any rating. Carolyns or anyone else's use of a PV
array is a perfect conduit
> for lightning in the wrong location. Caution on the
side of error in this
> case may be a bit over the top but not knowing site
specifics I still stand
> with an earlier statement to get a licensed
electrical contractor. In an age
> where "Attorneys Roamed the Earth", we all walk on
egg shells. Carolyn's
> attempt here to leave no stone unturned is as Martha
say's, "A good Thing".
> Fish and plants< just to make note I hadn't gone
to far off topic.
>
> Arlos
>
> Side bar; in a small commercial harbor (Moss
Landing) on the Monterey Bay,
> many old timers use 200 amp automotive alternators
on their boats and where
> this is suspected, neighboring boats have their
through hulls and zinc
> plates eaten away in a matter of months. ( Though I
suspect the large
> Pacific Gas and electric plant setting on the edge
of the harbor ( now Duke
> energy) may contribute a tad to the errant current
issue) The harbor has
> always been hot. Granted electrolysis is only the
by product of either bad
> grounding or
. ( ok tekkies, rapid release of the
hydrongen ion)? Corrosion
> protection is still a developing science and to a
certain extent would apply
> to the group especially if metal tanks, piping,
weirs, gates, handrails and
> catwalks that come into contact with process water
are used. Bonding loops
> and even anchor bolts can be eaten away. Electricity
and water do not make a
> good marriage. No one was ever hurt by being too
safe.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bruce Schreiber
> To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
> Date: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 6:02 AM
> Subject: Re: 12 volt sump/bilge pump safety
>
> I agree with Attie on the fishing boat I've been in
water up to my arm
> pits fixing submurged bilge pumps while it was
running quite safely its
> not hazardous like 120v. or 240v. or I would be dead
many times over
> Bruce
| Message 6
Subject: Safety
From: "Pete and Diana Scholtens"
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 06:46:42 -0700
Chris said:
My worst night mare is that the tops of my return
sumps are just at floor
level and i worry about a stray child. Liability aside
that is not a happy
tought.
Has anyone had any bad experiences like this? This is
my biggest fear about
setting up a system as well. My two year old son has a
fascination with
water and fish. Any tank of water will draw him in
like bees to honey, and
would even more if he knew there was fish in the
water.
What have people done increase safety?
Pete Scholtens
Langley, BC
| Message 7
Subject: Re: Safety
From: "Arlos"
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 07:25:51 -0700
Peter,
Are your systems in an enclosed area that can be
made child resistant such
as a lockable gate or door? Any perimeter security is
the first line of
safety. Two year olds seem to be programmed for auto
destruct. They are like
water, they seek their own level and any leak in your
attempt to make their
world safe and they'll find it. All electrical panels
that are UL rate can
be locked. Sumps should have a tamper resistant split
lid that is bolted
down. Motor drive couples should have shields, this
includes belt drives.
Keep ladders down when not in use and not stored
standing up. Toddlers don't
read safety & warning signs (but can understand
symbols). Chemicals, feeds,
fuels and their metering or measuring containers kept
up off the ground and
in lockable cabinets. The number one safety rule (I
went through this too
but my 2 year old grew up on me overnight and is now
in college) Never talk
to a child like they are a blank slate (Francis
Bacon.) They understand far
more than we give them credit for. I don't know if
they ever stop trying to
expand their limits (mine doesn't and I still don't).
Know the numbers and
have them posted for "Poison Control Centers". Learn
infant CPR and stay
current. To a child, you are 911 (emergency phone
number for those outside
the US.) Have a visual universal sign posted
everywhere there is a perceived
danger and have your child know it to the point of
telling others (they
develope this extremely annoying habit of asking WHY
at about three and
they are good at parroting other pieces of info by
that age too.) and the
one that always ends in under tragic circumstances,
never leave a child
alone, even for a minute.To put it in technical terms,
they are great
indicators of environmental stress. Give them a safe
home. As my wife just
piped in, bring over another parent of a two year old
and they'll root out
any problem.
-----Original Message-----
From: Pete and Diana Scholtens
To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
Date: Thursday, July 26, 2001 6:44 AM
Subject: Safety
>Chris said:
>My worst night mare is that the tops of my return
sumps are just at floor
>level and i worry about a stray child. Liability
aside that is not a happy
>tought.
>
>Has anyone had any bad experiences like this? This is
my biggest fear about
>setting up a system as well. My two year old son has
a fascination with
>water and fish. Any tank of water will draw him in
like bees to honey, and
>would even more if he knew there was fish in the
water.
>
>What have people done increase safety?
>
>Pete Scholtens
>Langley, BC
>
>
| Message 8
Subject: Hanging pots vs grow beds
From: kris book
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 08:56:57 -0600
Steve,
Take a look at the link, click on hydro farm and then
look at the bottom
left picture. I think you'll easily see that hanging
pots on the north
wall are about equal in plant area to the grow beds on
the floor. To me
that means, twice as much harvest in the same growing
area. One isn't
better than the other but together they can make the
difference between
success and failure, monetarily speaking. It does seem
likely that a
person wouldn't set up hanging pots on both sides of
the greenhouse
because the row on the south side would shade the
rest of the growing
area, except in summer when the sun is directly
overhead. Come to think
of it, there are lots of plants like spinach that
don't need much
sunlight to thrive. What do you think, back at ya.
kris
http://www.aerialad.net/hydrofarm/index.htm
| Message 9
Subject: Re: 12 volt sump/bilge pump safety
From: "Nick"
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 06:46:39 -0700
I believe the biggest problem area in low voltage DC
applications is under
the condition where an arc is formed. i.e.
commutating between brushes and
a slip ring assembly or commutator,
connection/disconnection with even small
loads. When an arc is formed, a broad band of AC
components is created, at
varying potentials depenant on such things as the
voltage, load, and method
of commutation. To prove this to yourself, take a 9
volt battery and connect
one of its terminals to a common
metalworking/woodworking file/rasp, take
another wire from the other terminal of the battery,
and strike the wire up
and down the serrations of the file/rasp while
listening to an AM radio.
This seldom works with an FM radio as most electircal
arc/spark cause
amplitude modulated interference, and FM's inherent
rejection of AM signals
will "filter" it out or reject it.
As to the safety of working on/around low voltage DC,
it is what we use in
the greeenhouse and fish tanks. None of the fish have
floated up and we
have not been shocked. I have sloshed around in
marine situations in the
bilges while working on active flood alarm systems.
Our electrical safety
program starts at a voltage level of 32 volts DC
except for
training/precautions to prevent arcing/shorting with
tools which can/will
burn by thermal means, and battery acid spill/splash
concerns.
Your mileage may vary.
| Message 10
Subject: Re: 12 volt sump/bilge pump safety
From: "gerry magnuson"
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 05:13:55 -1000
I am at a lost as to why people, children, are allowed
in the greenhouse in
the first place
.the possible diseases brought into a
greenhouse by others
would be a primary concern, thus eliminating any
worries about children and
such
.sanitation at the entrance, and cleanliness
throughout are more
important.
>From: "Nick"
>Reply-To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
>To:
>Subject: Re: 12 volt sump/bilge pump safety
>Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 06:46:39 -0700
>
>I believe the biggest problem area in low voltage DC
applications is under
>the condition where an arc is formed. i.e.
commutating between brushes and
>a slip ring assembly or commutator,
connection/disconnection with even
>small
>loads. When an arc is formed, a broad band of AC
components is created, at
>varying potentials depenant on such things as the
voltage, load, and method
>of commutation. To prove this to yourself, take a 9
volt battery and
>connect
>one of its terminals to a common
metalworking/woodworking file/rasp, take
>another wire from the other terminal of the battery,
and strike the wire up
>and down the serrations of the file/rasp while
listening to an AM radio.
>This seldom works with an FM radio as most electircal
arc/spark cause
>amplitude modulated interference, and FM's inherent
rejection of AM signals
>will "filter" it out or reject it.
>
>As to the safety of working on/around low voltage DC,
it is what we use in
>the greeenhouse and fish tanks. None of the fish
have floated up and we
>have not been shocked. I have sloshed around in
marine situations in the
>bilges while working on active flood alarm systems.
Our electrical safety
>program starts at a voltage level of 32 volts DC
except for
>training/precautions to prevent arcing/shorting with
tools which can/will
>burn by thermal means, and battery acid spill/splash
concerns.
>
>Your mileage may vary.
>
| Message 11
Subject: Re: 12 volt sump/bilge pump safety
From: Andrei.Calciu 'at' hn.va.nec.com
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 11:13:27 -0400
Gerry,
You may have a different situation, but most
greenhouse/aquaponics setups
are family farm type of operations where all the
family lives and works in
or near the greenhouse. Children (older ones) do help
mom and dad in the
greenhouse and thus are always in there. Younger kids
might be around too,
after all how could some siblings go in and not
others.
Commercial greenhouses are a different beast. No kids
around, mostly staff
working them, and presumably there is a Safety and
HACCUP program in place
to begin with. (For non USA list members, our beloved
government has
multiple agencies requiring safety programs in any
enterprise that is even
remotely commercial).
-_______________
Andrei D. Calciu (VA-4270)
NEC America, Inc.
14040 Park Center Dr.
Herndon, VA 20171-3227
Voice: 703-834-4273
Fax: 703-787-6613
This message and any attachment are confidential. If
you are not the
intended recipient, please telephone or email the
sender and delete the
message and any attachment from your system. If you
are not the intended
recipient you must not copy this message or attachment
or disclose the
contents to any other person.
"gerry magnuson"
cc:
Sent by:
Subject: Re: 12 volt sump/bilge pump safety
aquaponics-request 'at' t
ownsqr.com
07/26/01 11:13 AM
Please respond to
aquaponics
I am at a lost as to why people, children, are allowed
in the greenhouse in
the first place
.the possible diseases brought into a
greenhouse by others
would be a primary concern, thus eliminating any
worries about children and
such
.sanitation at the entrance, and cleanliness
throughout are more
important.
>From: "Nick"
>Reply-To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
>To:
>Subject: Re: 12 volt sump/bilge pump safety
>Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 06:46:39 -0700
>
>I believe the biggest problem area in low voltage DC
applications is under
>the condition where an arc is formed. i.e.
commutating between brushes
and
>a slip ring assembly or commutator,
connection/disconnection with even
>small
>loads. When an arc is formed, a broad band of AC
components is created,
at
>varying potentials depenant on such things as the
voltage, load, and
method
>of commutation. To prove this to yourself, take a 9
volt battery and
>connect
>one of its terminals to a common
metalworking/woodworking file/rasp, take
>another wire from the other terminal of the battery,
and strike the wire
up
>and down the serrations of the file/rasp while
listening to an AM radio.
>This seldom works with an FM radio as most electircal
arc/spark cause
>amplitude modulated interference, and FM's inherent
rejection of AM
signals
>will "filter" it out or reject it.
>
>As to the safety of working on/around low voltage DC,
it is what we use in
>the greeenhouse and fish tanks. None of the fish
have floated up and we
>have not been shocked. I have sloshed around in
marine situations in the
>bilges while working on active flood alarm systems.
Our electrical safety
>program starts at a voltage level of 32 volts DC
except for
>training/precautions to prevent arcing/shorting with
tools which can/will
>burn by thermal means, and battery acid spill/splash
concerns.
>
>Your mileage may vary.
>
| Message 12
Subject: Re: 12 volt sump/bilge pump safety
From: "gerry magnuson"
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 05:30:51 -1000
andrei
.have been in agriculture most all my life, it
is a matter of
explaining proper procedures in and around equipment,
not just saying
no
.the concern should be for the benefit of the fish
and plants, no matter
what the situation, a little discipline and
understanding can prove to be a
positive .having lived in hawaii or the past 16+
years, and many greenhouse
operations
the more successful operations have rules
that all abide by,
common sense is number one, if one wishes to be in a
greenhouse, maybe a
small area can be set aside, like a no-smoking zone.
>From: Andrei.Calciu 'at' hn.va.nec.com
>Reply-To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
>To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
>Subject: Re: 12 volt sump/bilge pump safety
>Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 11:13:27 -0400
>
>
>Gerry,
>
>You may have a different situation, but most
greenhouse/aquaponics setups
>are family farm type of operations where all the
family lives and works in
>or near the greenhouse. Children (older ones) do help
mom and dad in the
>greenhouse and thus are always in there. Younger kids
might be around too,
>after all how could some siblings go in and not
others.
>
>Commercial greenhouses are a different beast. No kids
around, mostly staff
>working them, and presumably there is a Safety and
HACCUP program in place
>to begin with. (For non USA list members, our beloved
government has
>multiple agencies requiring safety programs in any
enterprise that is even
>remotely commercial).
>
>-_______________
>Andrei D. Calciu (VA-4270)
>NEC America, Inc.
>14040 Park Center Dr.
>Herndon, VA 20171-3227
>
>Voice: 703-834-4273
>Fax: 703-787-6613
>
>This message and any attachment are confidential. If
you are not the
>intended recipient, please telephone or email the
sender and delete the
>message and any attachment from your system. If you
are not the intended
>recipient you must not copy this message or
attachment or disclose the
>contents to any other person.
>
>
>
>
> "gerry magnuson"
> aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
> ail.com> cc:
> Sent by:
Subject: Re: 12 volt
>sump/bilge pump safety
> aquaponics-request 'at' t
> ownsqr.com
>
>
> 07/26/01 11:13 AM
> Please respond to
> aquaponics
>
>
>
>
>
>
>I am at a lost as to why people, children, are
allowed in the greenhouse in
>
>the first place
.the possible diseases brought into
a greenhouse by others
>
>would be a primary concern, thus eliminating any
worries about children and
>
>such
.sanitation at the entrance, and cleanliness
throughout are more
>important.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: "Nick"
> >Reply-To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
> >To:
> >Subject: Re: 12 volt sump/bilge pump safety
> >Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 06:46:39 -0700
> >
> >I believe the biggest problem area in low voltage
DC applications is
>under
> >the condition where an arc is formed. i.e.
commutating between brushes
>and
> >a slip ring assembly or commutator,
connection/disconnection with even
> >small
> >loads. When an arc is formed, a broad band of AC
components is created,
>at
> >varying potentials depenant on such things as the
voltage, load, and
>method
> >of commutation. To prove this to yourself, take a 9
volt battery and
> >connect
> >one of its terminals to a common
metalworking/woodworking file/rasp, take
> >another wire from the other terminal of the
battery, and strike the wire
>up
> >and down the serrations of the file/rasp while
listening to an AM radio.
> >This seldom works with an FM radio as most
electircal arc/spark cause
> >amplitude modulated interference, and FM's inherent
rejection of AM
>signals
> >will "filter" it out or reject it.
> >
> >As to the safety of working on/around low voltage
DC, it is what we use
>in
> >the greeenhouse and fish tanks. None of the fish
have floated up and we
> >have not been shocked. I have sloshed around in
marine situations in the
> >bilges while working on active flood alarm systems.
Our electrical
>safety
> >program starts at a voltage level of 32 volts DC
except for
> >training/precautions to prevent arcing/shorting
with tools which can/will
> >burn by thermal means, and battery acid
spill/splash concerns.
> >
> >Your mileage may vary.
> >
>
>
>
>
/intl.asp
>
>
>
>
>
| Message 13
Subject: Re: 12 volt sump/bilge pump safety
From: "Arlos"
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 08:34:22 -0700
Nick,
Thanks for a more technical explanation. Not knowing
the groups overall
experience with all things electrical I made a blanket
statement simply
about safety. Hopeful others will take this and learn
enough to perform a
simple Ohms law calculation. I completely agree with
your experience on low
voltage DC but for a general audience and never
knowing how another will
take information and walk into a "hot" tank> I would
rather just simply say,
"unplug it before working on it". Which reminds me, I
have to go replace a
recirc pump right now
. thanks for the post.
Arlos
-----Original Message-----
From: Nick
To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
Date: Thursday, July 26, 2001 8:06 AM
Subject: Re: 12 volt sump/bilge pump safety
>I believe the biggest problem area in low voltage DC
applications is under
>the condition where an arc is formed. i.e.
commutating between brushes and
>a slip ring assembly or commutator,
connection/disconnection with even
small
>loads. When an arc is formed, a broad band of AC
components is created, at
>varying potentials depenant on such things as the
voltage, load, and method
>of commutation. To prove this to yourself, take a 9
volt battery and
connect
>one of its terminals to a common
metalworking/woodworking file/rasp, take
>another wire from the other terminal of the battery,
and strike the wire up
>and down the serrations of the file/rasp while
listening to an AM radio.
>This seldom works with an FM radio as most electircal
arc/spark cause
>amplitude modulated interference, and FM's inherent
rejection of AM signals
>will "filter" it out or reject it.
>
>As to the safety of working on/around low voltage DC,
it is what we use in
>the greeenhouse and fish tanks. None of the fish
have floated up and we
>have not been shocked. I have sloshed around in
marine situations in the
>bilges while working on active flood alarm systems.
Our electrical safety
>program starts at a voltage level of 32 volts DC
except for
>training/precautions to prevent arcing/shorting with
tools which can/will
>burn by thermal means, and battery acid spill/splash
concerns.
>
>Your mileage may vary.
>
>
| Message 14
Subject: Re: 12 volt sump/bilge pump safety
From: "Arlos"
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 08:36:03 -0700
Andrei,
Are you attending the aquaponics workshop in Nov
down in NC?
Arlos
-----Original Message-----
From: Andrei.Calciu 'at' hn.va.nec.com
To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
Date: Thursday, July 26, 2001 8:20 AM
Subject: Re: 12 volt sump/bilge pump safety
>
>Gerry,
>
>You may have a different situation, but most
greenhouse/aquaponics setups
>are family farm type of operations where all the
family lives and works in
>or near the greenhouse. Children (older ones) do help
mom and dad in the
>greenhouse and thus are always in there. Younger kids
might be around too,
>after all how could some siblings go in and not
others.
>
>Commercial greenhouses are a different beast. No kids
around, mostly staff
>working them, and presumably there is a Safety and
HACCUP program in place
>to begin with. (For non USA list members, our beloved
government has
>multiple agencies requiring safety programs in any
enterprise that is even
>remotely commercial).
>
>-_______________
>Andrei D. Calciu (VA-4270)
>NEC America, Inc.
>14040 Park Center Dr.
>Herndon, VA 20171-3227
>
>Voice: 703-834-4273
>Fax: 703-787-6613
>
>This message and any attachment are confidential. If
you are not the
>intended recipient, please telephone or email the
sender and delete the
>message and any attachment from your system. If you
are not the intended
>recipient you must not copy this message or
attachment or disclose the
>contents to any other person.
>
>
>
>
> "gerry magnuson"
> ail.com> cc:
> Sent by:
Subject: Re: 12 volt
sump/bilge pump safety
> aquaponics-request 'at' t
> ownsqr.com
>
>
> 07/26/01 11:13 AM
> Please respond to
> aquaponics
>
>
>
>
>
>
>I am at a lost as to why people, children, are
allowed in the greenhouse in
>
>the first place
.the possible diseases brought into
a greenhouse by others
>
>would be a primary concern, thus eliminating any
worries about children and
>
>such
.sanitation at the entrance, and cleanliness
throughout are more
>important.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>From: "Nick"
>>Reply-To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
>>To:
>>Subject: Re: 12 volt sump/bilge pump safety
>>Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 06:46:39 -0700
>>
>>I believe the biggest problem area in low voltage DC
applications is under
>>the condition where an arc is formed. i.e.
commutating between brushes
>and
>>a slip ring assembly or commutator,
connection/disconnection with even
>>small
>>loads. When an arc is formed, a broad band of AC
components is created,
>at
>>varying potentials depenant on such things as the
voltage, load, and
>method
>>of commutation. To prove this to yourself, take a 9
volt battery and
>>connect
>>one of its terminals to a common
metalworking/woodworking file/rasp, take
>>another wire from the other terminal of the battery,
and strike the wire
>up
>>and down the serrations of the file/rasp while
listening to an AM radio.
>>This seldom works with an FM radio as most
electircal arc/spark cause
>>amplitude modulated interference, and FM's inherent
rejection of AM
>signals
>>will "filter" it out or reject it.
>>
>>As to the safety of working on/around low voltage
DC, it is what we use in
>>the greeenhouse and fish tanks. None of the fish
have floated up and we
>>have not been shocked. I have sloshed around in
marine situations in the
>>bilges while working on active flood alarm systems.
Our electrical safety
>>program starts at a voltage level of 32 volts DC
except for
>>training/precautions to prevent arcing/shorting with
tools which can/will
>>burn by thermal means, and battery acid spill/splash
concerns.
>>
>>Your mileage may vary.
>>
>
>
>
>
/intl.asp
>
>
>
>
>
>
| Message 15
Subject: RE: Safety
From: "Chris Jeppesen"
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 08:42:06 -0700
Pete and Diana
My Grand kids will behere in a week and I'll have a
screen on it by then. And the green house will be off
limits without supervision (The ability to see thru
things except lead). So far the neighborhood children
have respected the rule.
I have a freind in Wyoming who lost a 2 year old son
in a post hole so be extremly diligent in teaching
your children and use doors they can't operate. In a
few years feeding the fish and tending the plants will
be a great responsiblity. Children need responsiblity
to grow on.
Chris Jeppesen
> "Pete and Diana Scholtens"
SafetyDate: Thu, 26 Jul 2001
06:46:42 -0700
>Reply-To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
>
>Chris said:
>My worst night mare is that the tops of my return
sumps are just at floor
>level and i worry about a stray child. Liability
aside that is not a happy
>tought.
>
>Has anyone had any bad experiences like this? This is
my biggest fear about
>setting up a system as well. My two year old son has
a fascination with
>water and fish. Any tank of water will draw him in
like bees to honey, and
>would even more if he knew there was fish in the
water.
>
>What have people done increase safety?
>
>Pete Scholtens
>Langley, BC
| Message 16
Subject: Instrumentation
From: "Mark Allen Wells"
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 10:49:08 -0500
Hi all,
Has anyone used the "Water Test" meter from Hanna
instruments?
http://www.automatedaquariums.com/h_wtest.htm
I am looking for a decent meter at a reasonable cost.
One
thing I like about this one is it tests for PH, EC,
ORP, and temp
all in one meter. At around $144.00 it would seem a
good value.
Feedback on any other good meters is appreciated.
Mark
| Message 17
Subject: NC workshop
From: Andrei.Calciu 'at' hn.va.nec.com
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 11:42:47 -0400
Arlos,
I have full intention to attend the workshop. Life is
paved with good
intentions, so we will see if I can actually make it
;-)
Where is the sign-up information?
-_______________
Andrei D. Calciu (VA-4270)
NEC America, Inc.
14040 Park Center Dr.
Herndon, VA 20171-3227
Voice: 703-834-4273
Fax: 703-787-6613
This message and any attachment are confidential. If
you are not the
intended recipient, please telephone or email the
sender and delete the
message and any attachment from your system. If you
are not the intended
recipient you must not copy this message or attachment
or disclose the
contents to any other person.
| Message 18
Subject: Re: 12 volt sump/bilge pump safety
From: "Chris Jeppesen"
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 08:56:48 -0700
gerry
People in my green house is just good PR. I've had
evough problems with the city allready if I go to
round two with the city it will be easyer with my
nieghbors in my corner.
When I get my production problems worked out my
marketing plan is for right out the door. I know it is
the family farm that has been in the family for 121
years but we have allways made more money when the new
by town people come to use than when load the wagons
and go to them.
allso durring the interime 121 Wall mart is one half
mile down the road. I think I can sell all I can grow
right out the door. But that wont happen with a goaway
sign on the door. It takes a smile and howdy. Looky
how we do it here.
Chris Jeppesen
> "gerry magnuson
>
>I am at a lost as to why people, children, are
allowed in the greenhouse in
>the first place
.the possible diseases brought into
a greenhouse by others
>would be a primary concern, thus eliminating any
worries about children and
>such
.sanitation at the entrance, and cleanliness
throughout are more
>important.
| Message 19
Subject: RE: Aquaponics, Sales, Grower Attitude
From: "Mark Allen Wells"
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 11:09:44 -0500
Thanks for the post, marc. My Dad and grandparents had
a
small restaurant when I was a kid. My grandmother was
great at building relationships. Their place was fun
for
people
.it felt like home. That ability to cultivate
relationships can make you or break you in business.
take care, mark
>
he presents a commitment to valuing relationships
| Message 20
Subject: Measurements
From: Andrei.Calciu 'at' hn.va.nec.com
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 12:05:26 -0400
Folks,
Is there a complete list of all the different
variables that are (or
should) be measured in an aquaponics setup? I am
trying to create a
monitoring spreadsheet and I would like to have it as
complete as possible.
To give y'all a push start, here is a short (meaning
incomplete) collection
of parameters I thought of:
Air temperature inside greenhouse/building
Air temperature outside
Humidity outside
Humidity inside
Water temp in tank
DO in tank
pH in tank
Conductivity in tank
root temperature in grow beds
DO at exit from grow beds
pH at exit from grow beds
etc, etc, etc,
Now start filling in and get creative. It is better to
have too many
parameters and ignore some than to have too few and
miss out on an early
warning.
Also, one column in the spreadsheet will be
"acceptable range" so please
fill in that also if you have any direct experience
with it.
Once finished, I will share the spreadsheet with the
list. Of course, at no
cost!!!
-_______________
Andrei D. Calciu (VA-4270)
NEC America, Inc.
14040 Park Center Dr.
Herndon, VA 20171-3227
Voice: 703-834-4273
Fax: 703-787-6613
This message and any attachment are confidential. If
you are not the
intended recipient, please telephone or email the
sender and delete the
message and any attachment from your system. If you
are not the intended
recipient you must not copy this message or attachment
or disclose the
contents to any other person.
| Message 21
Subject: Re: Safety
From: kris book
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 10:28:13 -0600
I remember as a child, if anything was put off limits
that just made it
all the more appealing. Educate your children, give
them the run of all
safe places and take the time to explain what's
dangerous and why. My
kids find more things that need attention in the
greenhouse than I do.
Things have been going quite well(sanity wise) since
we adopted the
rule:Anytime you have a question, take the time to
think about, asking
the best possible question.
kris
| Message 22
Subject: it is always good to have visitors as you say
From: "gerry magnuson"
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 06:32:08 -1000
if one were to have visitors come, great
.it would
also be wise to have a
covered area for buying and display, still keeping the
folks out of the
greenhouses
.as I have watched women with purses,
snip a stem or two for
later use
.my farm is tucked in a 'valley', house is
a quarter mile from
the entrance, and the greenhouses are in a corner of
the farm, planning up
to 5 acres, rest will soonbe in apple orchards, dwarf,
and whatever else my
better half wishes.
>From: "Chris Jeppesen"
>Reply-To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
>To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
>Subject: Re: 12 volt sump/bilge pump safety
>Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 08:56:48 -0700
>
>gerry
>People in my green house is just good PR. I've had
evough problems with the
>city allready if I go to round two with the city it
will be easyer with my
>nieghbors in my corner.
>
>When I get my production problems worked out my
marketing plan is for right
>out the door. I know it is the family farm that has
been in the family for
>121 years but we have allways made more money when
the new by town people
>come to use than when load the wagons and go to them.
>allso durring the interime 121 Wall mart is one half
mile down the road. I
>think I can sell all I can grow right out the door.
But that wont happen
>with a goaway sign on the door. It takes a smile and
howdy. Looky how we do
>it here.
>Chris Jeppesen
>
> > "gerry magnuson
> >
> >I am at a lost as to why people, children, are
allowed in the greenhouse
>in
> >the first place
.the possible diseases brought
into a greenhouse by
>others
> >would be a primary concern, thus eliminating any
worries about children
>and
> >such
.sanitation at the entrance, and cleanliness
throughout are more
> >important.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
| Message 23
Subject: Re: Safety
From: "gerry magnuson"
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 06:41:10 -1000
BINGO!!!
>From: kris book
>Reply-To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
>To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
>CC: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
>Subject: Re: Safety
>Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 10:28:13 -0600
>
>I remember as a child, if anything was put off limits
that just made it
>all the more appealing. Educate your children, give
them the run of all
>safe places and take the time to explain what's
dangerous and why. My
>kids find more things that need attention in the
greenhouse than I do.
>Things have been going quite well(sanity wise) since
we adopted the
>rule:Anytime you have a question, take the time to
think about, asking
>the best possible question.
>
>kris
| Message 24
Subject: Re: 12 volt sump/bilge pump safety
From: marc 'at' aculink.net
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 10:48:38 -0600
"Can anyone tell me about the safety of being in the
water
when using
12V submersible pumps?"
There's very few circumstances that are hazardous with
low
voltage installations. Keeping in mind that voltage is
pressure or the push/pull that gets current flowing
you'll
see why 12V is so safe. 12 volts is a small push or
pull.
One of the most common injury scenarios in low voltage
applications is a live/hot/energized piece of the
electrical
wire that carries energy to the pump penetrating the
outer
layer or protective layer of the skin. These kinds of
penetrations are dangerous in that the liquid inside
the
body is quite a good conductor and allows current to
flow
readily even at low voltage levels. If there are
submersed
parts of the body to act as the other pathway for
current
injury is certainly possible and there are documented
cases
of this.
Basically don't poke pieces of wire into your body
while
standing in your fish tank - even low voltage stuff.
If you are not sure as to safety considerations you
may want
to start with parts and design in the S&S aquaponics
engineering package.
The main liability you will have with an unsupervised
child
is drowning. In worse case scenario electrocution is
virtually impossible with a properly installed pumping
system. The key is PROPER installation.
In summary:
1. GOOD grounding is essential to safety.
2. It is a myth that submersible pumps should be
avoided due
to the danger of electrocution.
3. Poor installations should be avoided with ANY pump.
4. Follow manufacturers instructions explicitly.
5. Follow a proven performance scenario.
Marc Nameth
-
| Message 25
Subject: Fw: Resources List
From: kris book
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 10:51:32 -0600
Mike,
I hope this is helpful for the bookmark site. I
doesn't seem to be about
self promotion. He listed three magazines and didn't
even list his first.
I believe I can safely say that Doug is ethically
sound and very helpful.
He didn't even try to pin me down to write an article
but, his kindness
forced me to offer to write one as soon as I learn how
to write.
kris
--- Forwarded message ----
From: "Douglas J. Peckenpaugh"
To: krisbook 'at' juno.com
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 16:22:55 -0700
Subject: Resources List
Message-ID: <3B5F54CE.9CC6583B 'at' growingedge.com>
Kris:
Here are some organic, organic hydroponic, aquaponic,
greenhouse, and
other resources. I focused on Texas for the state
resources since if I
remember correctly, your friend is based there. I also
listed some back
issues that would look into these topics.
These are mostly Web-based addresses (to save my
time); if your friend
is not connected to the Internet, he should go to the
library (I would
bet that almost every library in the nation now has at
least one
computer hooked to the Net), look up these addresses,
and then contact
the organizations he finds useful to request or print
out information.
I hope this leads you in some good directions. Good
luck in your
venture. Please let me know if you ever have any
questions. The "Ask the
Experts" feature associated with The Growing Edge
(either write to P.O.
Box 1027, Corvallis, Oregon 97339 or visit the Web
site at
http://www.growingedge.com/community/ or simply send
me an e-mail
(editor 'at' growingedge.com)) is a great resource for free
advice regarding
specific questions. On the Web site you can browse
through hundreds of
questions and answers or pose your own questions.
Keep me updated on your progress. I monitor the
aquaponic and hydroponic
discussion lists, so I'm there in "cyber spirit"
almost every day.
Sincerely,
Douglas J. Peckenpaugh
Editor, The Growing Edge
General Organic Resources
The National Organic Program
http://www.ams.usda.gov/nop/
Sustainable Agriculture Network
http://www.sare.org/
International Federation of Organic Agriculture
Movements
http://www.ifoam.org/
The Organic Trade Association
http://www.ota.com/
Organic Farmers Marketing Association
http://web.iquest.net/ofma/
The Organic Farming Research Foundation
http://www.ofrf.org/
Organic Crop Improvement Association
http://www.ocia.org/
State of Texas Organic Resources
Texas Department of Agriculture Organic Certification
Program
http://www.agr.state.tx.us/license/organic.htm
Texas Organic Growers Association
http://www.texasorganicgrowers.com/
Aquaponic Resources
Aquatic Eco-Systems, Inc.
1767 Benbow Court
Apopka, FL 32703
http://www.aquaticeco.com/
Bioshelters, Inc.
500 Sunderland Road
Amherst, MA 01002
http://www.bioshelters.com/
CropKing, Inc.
5050 Greenwich Road
Seville, OH 44273-9413
http://www.cropking.com/
Future AquaFarms
RR 2, Site 1A, Box 26
Head of Chezzetcook,
Nova Scotia, B0J 1N0
Canada
Hydro/Aquatic Technologies
P.O. Box 777
Princess Anne, MD 21853
Inslee's Fish Farm
P.O. Box 207
Connerville, OK 74836
Integrated Aquatics
Welcome, Ontario
Canada
Nelson/Pade Multimedia
P.O. Box 1848
Mariposa, CA 95338
http://www.aquaponics.com/
S & S Aqua Farm
8386 County Road 8820
West Plains, MO 65775
http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
University of the Virgin Islands
Agricultural Experiment Station
RR 2
Box 10,000
Kingshill, VI 00850
(340) 692-4020
http://rps.uvi.edu/AES/aes_home.html
USA Ringger Foods-Aquaculture Division
P.O. Box 40
320 West Gridley Road
Gridley, IL 61744
http://www.aquaranch.com/
Some Good Books
Cooper, Dr. Allen, The ABC of NFT, (Casper
Publications, New South
Wales, Australia, 1979)
Dalton, Lon; Smith, Rob, Hydroponic Crop Production,
(New Zealand
Hydroponics, Ltd., Tauranga, New Zealand, 1999)
Dalton, Lon; Smith, Rob, Hydroponic Gardening, (New
Zealand Hydroponics,
Ltd., Tauranga, New Zealand, 1993)
Fox, Roger, The Best of Practical Hydroponics &
Greenhouses, (Casper
Publications, New South Wales, Australia, 1997)
Jones, J. Benton, Jr., Hydroponics: A Practical Guide
for the Soilless
Grower, (CRC Press, Boca Raton, Florida, 1997)
Knutson, Amy, ed., The Best of The Growing Edge,
Volume 2, 1994-1999,
(New Moon Publishing, Corvallis, Oregon, 2000)
Parker, Don, ed., The Best of The Growing Edge, Volume
1, 1989-1994,
(New Moon Publishing, Corvallis, Oregon, 1994)
Resh, Dr. Howard, Hydroponic Food Production, Fifth
Edition, (Woodbridge
Press, Santa Barbara, California, 1997)
Greenhouses Advanced Technology for Protected
Horticulture, J. J.
Hannan, CRC Press
Boodley, J. W. The Commercial Greenhouse (Delmar,
Albany, New York, 1998)
Nelson, P. V. Greenhouse Operation and Management,
(Prentice Hall,
Englewood Cliffs, New Jersey, 1991)
Recommended Magazines
Aquaponics Journal (Nelson/Pade Multimedia, Mariposa,
California 1997- )
The Growing Edge, (New Moon Publishing, Corvallis,
Oregon, 1989- )
Practical Hydroponics & Greenhouses, (Casper
Publications, New South
Wales, Australia, 1991- )
Some Recommended Organic Hydroponic and Aquaponic
Articles From The
Growing Edge
(By the way, we're having a special deal right now;
you can get every
back issue for a total of $85, which is a savings of
around $200--it's a
great deal.)
"Bioponics: Organic Hydroponic Gardening," Dr. Luther
Thomas, The
Growing Edge, Vol. 1, No. 3
"Bioponics, Part Two," Dr. Luther Thomas, The Growing
Edge, Vol. 2, No. 2
"Bioponics Part III: Solution pH and Temperature as
Limiting Factors,"
Dr. Luther Thomas, Vol. 2, No. 3
"Bioponics Part IV," Dr. Luther Thomas, The Growing
Edge, Vol. 2, No. 4
"Bioponics Part 5: Enzymes for Hereditary Potential,"
Dr. Luther Thomas,
The Growing Edge, Vol. 4, No. 2
"Organic Nutrient Extractor for Hydroponic Systems,"
Dr. Luther Thomas,
The Growing Edge, Vol. 4, No. 4
"Aquaponics--Combining Aquaculture and Hydroponics,"
Gordon Creaser, The
Growing Edge, Vol. 9, No. 1
"Growing Notes--Integrating Aquaculture and
Hydroponics on the Small
Farm," Gordon Watkins, The Growing Edge, Vol. 9, No. 5
"Inslee Fish Farm: A Family-Run Aquaponic Operation
Produces Chives and
Fish," Gordon Watkins, The Growing Edge Vol. 10, No. 5
"Growing Notes--Australian Aquaponics--Whole Fresh
Fish and a Side Salad
Please!" Andrew de Dezsery, The Growing Edge, Vol. 11,
No. 2
"Research and Retail at Coonamessett Farm," Jan
Kubiak, The Growing
Edge, Vol. 11, No. 2
"Botanical Compounds: Defense Strategies From the
Plant Kingdom," Dr.
Lynette Morgan, The Growing Edge, Vol. 11, No. 4
"Growing With Aquaponics--An Update From the Field,"
Gordon Creaser, The
Growing Edge, Vol. 11, No. 5
"Agriculture Extension Experiments in Aquaponics,"
Lana Robinson, The
Growing Edge, Vol. 11, No. 6
"Scholastic Aquaponics," Ray Schneider, The Growing
Edge, Vol. 12, No. 1
"Appalachian Aquaponics," Phillip Meeks, The Growing
Edge, Vol. 12, No. 2
"Suriname Hydroponics," Gordon Creaser, The Growing
Edge, Vol. 12, No. 4
"Organic Hydroponics," Melvin Landers, The Growing
Edge, Vol. 12, No. 5
"Outdoor Aquaponics," Myra D. Colgate, The Growing
Edge, Vol. 12, No. 5
"Aquaponic Logistics," Rebecca L. Nelson, The Growing
Edge, Vol. 12, No.
6
| Message 26
Subject: Re: Instrumentation
From: "Thomas Short"
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 13:00:50 -0700
=_NextPart_001_0000_01C115D2.FEA92D20
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Check out this I thank it may work .What do you think?
http://www.smarthome.com/6116.html
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Allen Wells
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 8:56 AM
To: Aquaponics
Subject: Instrumentation
=20
Hi all,
Has anyone used the "Water Test" meter from Hanna
instruments?
http://www.automatedaquariums.com/h_wtest.htm
I am looking for a decent meter at a reasonable cost.
One
thing I like about this one is it tests for PH, EC,
ORP, and temp
all in one meter. At around $144.00 it would seem a
good value.
Feedback on any other good meters is appreciated.
Mark
=_NextPart_001_0000_01C115D2.FEA92D20
Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
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Check out this=
I thank it may work .What do you think?
----- Original Message
----- From: Mark A=
llen Wells Sent: Thursday, J=
uly 26, 2001 8:56 AM To: Aqu=
aponics Subject: Instrumenta=
tion Hi all,
Has anyone
used the "Water Tes=
t" meter from Hanna
instruments?
http://www.automatedaquariums.=
com/h_wtest.htm
I am looking for a decent meter
at a reasonable co=
st. One
thing I like about this one is it tests for
PH, EC, ORP, and t=
emp
all in one meter. At around $144.00 it would
seem a good value.Feedback on any other good meters is
appreciated.
Mark
Get more from
the Web. FREE MSN =
Explorer download : http://explorer.m=
sn.com
=_NextPart_001_0000_01C115D2.FEA92D20--
| Message 27
Subject: Re: no thanks
From: kris book
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 14:09:29 -0600
> Mark,
>
> You are obviously a gentleman and a scholar but,
will you stop being
> so damn polite. I was lurking around here for quite
a while and
> enjoying it very much. Then along comes Mark and
Arlos and you two
> jump like you've been here forever, and being the
good card player
> that I am, I have to follow suit.
>
> I appreciate the way that you handled Marc, I bet
you've caught a
> whole bunch of flies with your sack of sugar. I was
getting a little
> paranoid, trying not to upset anyone with my
writings. To be
> chastised for 8 words out of a whole page community
service message
> was quite alarming but, since there is no accounting
for taste, I
> guess I'll just let it drop for now. Or almost
>
> As for Marc, please do yourself a favor and don't
try to tell people
> what they think or what their motivations are. Those
skills are not
> available on this planet. And before you declare war
with someone
> you ought to check your mind. Do you think you would
speak to me in
> the same manner if we were face to face. Please
don't construe this
> as a threat, just common sense.
>
>
| Message 28
Subject: Re: no thanks
From: kris book
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 14:14:00 -0600
Please excuse the typo. I meant misconstrue
| Message 29
Subject: Lightning protection
From: "Arlos"
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 14:41:19 -0700
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Amigos,
When I'm crusing through my email in the morning,
the news is on and =
all I hear is thunder and lightning storms across the
country. How do =
all of you protect your green houses from this? In a
few photos that =
have been posted I had not seen any lighting
protection.
Arlos
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Amigos,
When I'm
crusing through my =
email in the=20
morning, the news is on and all I hear is thunder and
lightning storms =
across=20
the country. How do all of you protect your green
houses from this? In a =
few=20
photos that have been posted I had not seen any
lighting=20
protection.
Arlos
=_NextPart_000_0010_01C115E1.0828C8C0--
| Message 30
Subject: RE: Instrumentation
From: "Mark Allen Wells"
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 16:47:17 -0500
very interesting Thomas
.thanks
.will
read up on it.
http://www.smarthome.com/6116.html
| Message 31
Subject: Re: Biogas
From: "Brent Bingham"
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 15:01:54 -0700
Yes, but chips or turnings from a shop are better to
get gas flow.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cary Dizon"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 7:18 PM
Subject: Biogas
> I've read that a trap filled with iron fillings can
eliminate
> hydrogen-sulfides in biogas. These systems are used
in India.
>
> CPD
>
| Message 32
Subject: RE: Biogas
From: "Mark Allen Wells"
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 17:16:41 -0500
>Yes, but chips or turnings from a shop are better to
get gas flow.
----
> I've read that a trap filled with iron fillings can
eliminate
> hydrogen-sulfides in biogas. These systems are used
in India.
>
> CPD
>
----
Thanks guys,
I am looking into this. I think the greenwater
tank culture
system that uses a clarifier, produces a sludge that
is suitable
for bio-digestion. I'll keep you posted on what I
find.
http://www.aquaponics.com/articlegreenwater.htm
| Message 33
Subject: Re: Greenwater sludge>>methane
From: "Brent Bingham"
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 15:19:47 -0700
Storing Biogas in steel high pressure vessels is risky
business! H2S is a
killer. Captive bubble systems and bladder type
systems seem to be more cost
effective and safer. . Even small amounts of H2S in a
high pressure tank can
cause an undetectable catastrophic failure over time.
Brent
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Allen Wells"
To: "Aquaponics"
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 11:24 PM
Subject: Greenwater sludge>>methane
> Hi everyone,
>
> The digester thread got the wheels spinning. One
thing that
> was bothering me in processing aquaponic/aquaculture
waste was it's
> too thin
.not enough solids. Then I was reading
the page about
> greenwater tank culture in the Virgin Islands and
saw a pic of the
> greenwater sludge and the lightbulb went off.
>
> http://www.aquaponics.com/articlegreenwater.htm
>
> The clarifier on this page concentrates the solids
> resulting in sludge. This is similar to the primary
settling
> process in our waste treatment plant with one big
difference.> our sludge is then pumped to the digester. This
type of aquaculture
> would seem to lend itself to bio-digestion. It
takes a lot
> of sludge to produce a significant volume of
methane. But I
> think a multi-fuel system using methane and shelled
corn
> (which I can barter for or grow
.no cash outlay) is
feasible.
> The system would use a compressor and tanks like LP
gas tanks
> to store the methane and build up a supply in summer
months.
> When methane supply runs low, corn is used to fuel
the system.
> Even if I had to buy it, it's the cheapest fuel here
in
> the cornbelt. I am going to look into this. If any
one is
> interested in this, let me know and I'll keep you
posted off
> list so I don't annoy anyone.
>
> Raul, (I hope you are reading this)
.does this
sound
> feasible to you? Would free fuel offset
construction costs?
> I am not familiar with small farm type digesters but
I am hitting
> the search engines and reading all I can this
weekend.
>
> take care.> Mark
>
| Message 34
Subject: RE: Greenwater sludge>>methane
From: "Mark Allen Wells"
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 17:34:55 -0500
Storing Biogas in steel high pressure vessels is risky
business! H2S is a
killer. Captive bubble systems and bladder type
systems seem to be more cost
effective and safer. . Even small amounts of H2S in a
high pressure tank can
cause an undetectable catastrophic failure over time.
Brent
----
Brent,
this is the kind of feedback I wanted
.thanks.
In our wastewater plant, gas guns(compressors)
pumped the gas into a huge spherical tank
.pressure
wasn't high but it was huge
.lots of volume.
It's been a few years since I worked there. I have
some boning up to do. You seem knowledgable. I'll
share more thoughts off-list. can you send me your
addy?
mawells 'at' bpsinet.com
mark
| Message 35
Subject: Re: Greenwater sludge>>methane
From: "Brent Bingham"
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 15:51:42 -0700
Yes, the huge tanks you see go up and down in a
framework have weighted tops
to keep a constant PSI on the gas. No matter how full
the tank the PSI is
constant and safer. Bbingham 'at' starband.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Allen Wells"
To:
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 3:34 PM
Subject: RE: Greenwater sludge>>methane
> Storing Biogas in steel high pressure vessels is
risky business! H2S is a
> killer. Captive bubble systems and bladder type
systems seem to be more
cost
> effective and safer. . Even small amounts of H2S in
a high pressure tank
can
> cause an undetectable catastrophic failure over
time.
> Brent
>
> ----
> Brent,
> this is the kind of feedback I wanted
.thanks.
> In our wastewater plant, gas guns(compressors)
> pumped the gas into a huge spherical tank
.pressure
> wasn't high but it was huge
.lots of volume.
> It's been a few years since I worked there. I have
> some boning up to do. You seem knowledgable. I'll
> share more thoughts off-list. can you send me your
addy?
>
> mawells 'at' bpsinet.com
>
> mark
>
>
| Message 36
Subject: New Business
From: "Leon Klopfenstein"
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 06:08:01 -0400
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For those interested in starting a new business, you
might want to take =
the time to purchase, (and read) the book by Michael
Gerber:"The =
E-Myth". He might have a couple printings. Get the
latest one.=20
Leon
=_NextPart_000_0075_01C11599.53977920
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
For those interested
in starting a new =
business,=20
you might want to take the time to purchase, (and
read) the book by =
Michael=20
Gerber:"The E-Myth". He might have a couple printings.
Get the latest =
one.=20
Leon
=_NextPart_000_0075_01C11599.53977920--
| Message 37
Subject: Re: Lightning protection
From: Peggy & Emmett
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 19:16:18 -0400
At 02:41 PM 7/26/2001 -0700, you wrote:
> Amigos, >lightning storms across the
>country. > Arlos
http://www.lightningstorm.com/lightningstorm/gpg/lex1/mapdisplay_free.jsp
If this doesn't work I'll send another address.
Emmett
| Message 38
Subject: RE: Hanging pots vs grow beds
From: "Hurst, Steve ( China)"
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 08:24:22 +0800
Kris,
Thanks for that link. This has brought up several
ideas That I never even
considered.
As I have moved from (Traditional ?) Pond Tilapia
farming to trying
Aquaponics,
I am still trying to get a grip on the Plant side of
things. So far,
everything
I have put in those growbeds have come up. But I can
see your point, utilise
every bit of space , Vertical as well as Horizontal,
to maximise output.
That Greenhouse space is expensive ( even here in the
Tropics ).
I just had a vision of hanging pots on a beam trolley,
roll the vertical
stack of
pots around the greenhouse in different light
conditions until the plants
thrive !
Just a few flexible hose connections and I can do it.
Thats a good idea about using the pots as a shade for
other plants that dont
need
so much light. Shading is one of my bigger probelms.
Okay, I am convinced. This is the next stage of the
project
.
Steve
SNIP
>Take a look at the link, click on hydro farm and then
look at the bottom
>left picture. I think you'll easily see that hanging
pots on the north
>wall are about equal in plant area to the grow beds
on the floor. To me
>that means, twice as much harvest in the same growing
area. One isn't
>better than the other but together they can make the
difference between
>success and failure, monetarily speaking. It does
seem likely that a
>person wouldn't set up hanging pots on both sides of
the greenhouse
>because the row on the south side would shade the
rest of the growing
>area, except in summer when the sun is directly
overhead. Come to think
>of it, there are lots of plants like spinach that
don't need much
>sunlight to thrive. What do you think, back at ya.
kris
http://www.aerialad.net/hydrofarm/index.htm
| Message 39
Subject: RE: 12 volt sump/bilge pump safety
From: "Hurst, Steve ( China)"
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 08:53:44 +0800
Nick , Arlos,
I agree absolutely.
A note on Industry Practices with regard to Electrical
Isolation.
I work Offshore with the Oil/Gas Industry. The rules
on Energy Isolations
are very strict, especially with Electrical
Isolations.
However, all companys I have worked for have a Lower
Energy level where
these rules do not apply ( i.e., you do not need a
positive Energy Isolation
prior to starting work ).
On some facilities this Energy level is 24V DC. My
current facility I am
working on it is 48V DC.
However, these rules still require the Technicians to
follow Good Working
Practices, such as, isolating the Electrical supply
anyway, if you do not
need it switched on to Diagnose a problem. Prior to
Touching ANYTHING that
could
be a conductor ( such as the water )test it with a
meter to see if there is
anything there. Don 'at' t rely on a Safety device to
protect you ( like RCD or
GFI
device ). Take positive steps to isolate any potential
hazard first.
I personally am comfortable with any DC voltage up to
24V. However, if the
equipment
has failed, and until you know why it has failed
always assume the worst.
Just my 2pence worth
Steve H
SNIP
Nick,
Thanks for a more technical explanation. Not knowing
the groups overall
experience with all things electrical I made a blanket
statement simply
about safety. Hopeful others will take this and learn
enough to perform a
simple Ohms law calculation. I completely agree with
your experience on low
voltage DC but for a general audience and never
knowing how another will
take information and walk into a "hot" tank> I would
rather just simply say,
"unplug it before working on it". Which reminds me, I
have to go replace a
recirc pump right now
. thanks for the post.
| Message 40
Subject: Re: Hanging pots vs grow beds
From: fishmanbruce 'at' webtv.net (Bruce Schreiber)
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 20:28:24 -0500 (CDT)
Kris I'd like to try some of thoughs vertical pot
systems some time
maybe as A aeration tower what does it cost to set
them up?
Bruce
| Message 41
Subject: Re: Hanging pots vs grow beds
From: kris book
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 19:44:15 -0600
Steve,
Elementry, my dear Watson. If I have a choice, I'd
rather be old Sherlock
and go play nine holes down by the caddyshack. I'd
rather be a hundred
different beings before I'd want to be a Olympian god.
How about making the pots spinable, like a lazy Susan,
over all plant
health and harvest would be optimized by insuring
equal sun to each
plant. My wife always makes me turn all of her pots
and portable grow
beds. She grows bio-dynamically and has to have her
special dirt, heavy
dirt. I made the mistake of telling her,"why don't we
try to take some of
your garden dirt and put it in the greenhouse". It
worked so well that
she only wanted to use the greenhouse for her
vegetables and her
bio-dynamic garden was just used for flowers and
herbs. Oh, and a place
to keep her horn manure.
I told her that I didn't like giving up my greenhouse
but she said that
the veggies would be happier in the greenhouse. You
see, she was in this
gardening club, something called Peralandra (I think),
where they learned
old Druid techniques to communicate with plants. It's
like dowsing for
water or sometimes called Kinesiology. Please no
questions about this
stuff, if you're interested in any of this stuff do
an Internet search.
I've only been an observer but, I have seen great
results from all this
white witchery stuff.
Man talk about off-topic. Should I hold out my hands
to get the ruler
from the nun.
kris
| Message 42
Subject: RE: Greenwater sludge>>methane
From: "Hurst, Steve ( China)"
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 09:56:08 +0800
Absolutely agree with you Brent,
If there is any Water Moisture in the gas ( this is
normal ) the water
forms with the H2S to form a very strong acid. For a
Propane Cylinder,
this could eat through the walls in a matter of weeks
or a few months.
With " Wet Gas" you also have a problem of the CO2
combining with this
water to form Carbolic Acid, which again is very
corrosive and will eat
through
the steel walls very quickly.
Gas that is sold in cylinders, and which goes down
the Natural gas
pipelines,
all has been de-hydrated. Very Little water ( H2O
dewpoint ) inside the
gas,
to combine with the H2S and CO2 elements.
In the Oil/gas industry this is known as "Sweet" (
Co2) or "Sour" ( H2s
)gas/corrosion.
It is fundamental to Designing the facility to
withstand the attack of
corrosion
from these two un-wanted products of natural gas.
How to control these types of corrosion/gases is a
known fact. Biogas is no
different
to Natural gas, except it is not quite so nasty. I
Don 'at' t know if you can get
Benzene or Heavys in Biogas ( such as mercury ).
A source of Good information to research this stuff is
the Oil/Gas industry
( cant remember the web address, but just do a search
for API, American
Petroleum
Institute.) Everything you ever needed to know about
Gas/H2S, corrosion etc.
Also another point, what you might be able to get away
with in a remote
village
in India, might not be acceptable to your Local
Inspectorate in the USA ( or
other
developed country ). I am sure there are a thousand
rules and regulations
governing
the selection/use of equipment, testing, certifying
etc for a gas production
facility !
And rightly so. This stuff can Kill people, in a
variety of ways.
Steve H
SNIP
>Storing Biogas in steel high pressure vessels is
risky business! H2S is a
>killer. Captive bubble systems and bladder type
systems seem to be more
cost
>effective and safer. . Even small amounts of H2S in a
high pressure tank
can
>cause an undetectable catastrophic failure over
time.
>Brent
| Message 43
Subject: Re: Hanging pots vs grow beds
From: kris book
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 20:02:31 -0600
Bruce,
Jay here on the list said he paid $1.20 each from the
maker (Tim
Carpenter, I think), and he bought 3,000, if I do the
math right. But
someone else(I don't remember who) here said that
HYDRO-GARDENS sells
them for $ 1.15. I bet we could figure a way to make
them cheaper. Tim
makes a tower kit, that has 5 pots attached to a
vertical plastic pipe,
and three towers make a basic unit, price $130. If you
just want to play
that's probably not to steep. I've never seen one in
person but, all of
this info has passed thru the list lately. I guess you
weren't taking
notes or are you just real quick on the delete
trigger.
kris
| Message 44
Subject: Re: helping shy lurkers
From: fishmanbruce 'at' webtv.net (Bruce Schreiber)
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 21:14:13 -0500 (CDT)
Hey Mike tell me about Jai he E-mailed me a while back
and I'd like to
try to help him with his opertation so whats he doing
Bruce
| Message 45
Subject: Re: Hanging pots vs grow beds
From: fishmanbruce 'at' webtv.net (Bruce Schreiber)
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 21:29:20 -0500 (CDT)
No I started work at 3:30am and just got home from
work at 8:pm and my
mind is not as sharp as I'd like it to be. I am just
sleepy I quess and
should hit th sack but I'm waiting up for my wife to
get back
Bruce
| Message 46
Subject: Fwd. new insurance program to target the
fast-growing fish
farming
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 22:10:13 -0500
From: "Paul Gehl"
Subject: new insurance program to target the
fast-growing fish farming
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 22:16:23 -0700
The Hartford Hooks Program for Fish Farmers
New Livestock Insurance Could Spare Repercussions of
an Unexpected Loss
HARTFORD, Conn., July 25 /PRNewswire/ -- Fish farmers
need no longer flounder
in their search for appropriate insurance protection.
The Hartford Financial Services Group, a major insurer
of livestock, has
created a new insurance program to target the
fast-growing fish farming
business. Whether a fish farm is an indoor or outdoor
operation, The Hartford
now can protect this livestock through its Fishstock
Mortality Program.
(Photo:
http://www.newscom.com/cgi-bin/prnh/19990824/HIGLOGO )
Fish farmers can enjoy broad coverage to ensure their
operations are
protected if fishstock die from weather conditions,
diseases or mechanical
and electrical breakdowns. The Hartford has introduced
a customized insurance
policy that partners fish farmers with their local
insurance agents to review
specific needs.
The basic Fishstock Mortality Program covers fishstock
that die as a result
of specific causes of loss. Optional coverage can
protect a fish farmer when
a heating system breaks down, causing water
temperature to fall, or when
foreign or toxic substances infect the fishstock, all
resulting in death of
the fishstock. Special coverage includes
transportation, fatal fish disease
and deoxygenation of the water from the breakdown of
an aeration system.
"Our goal was to develop a policy that makes fish
farmers comfortable," said
Dave Berry, vice president of Livestock at The
Hartford. "With so many
things to think about in running a business, fish
farmers need the security
of knowing that their stock is well protected by an
experienced, first-class
insurance carrier."
The Hartford has worked with the livestock industry
and the independent
agents that serve this industry for 85 years. Most
recently the company has
built on that experience and its relationships with
independent agents to
develop the industry-leading coverage and top-quality
service that the fish
farming industry demands. Fish such as tilapia, salmon
and striped bass are
popular among fish farmers but require knowledge and
care to raise
successfully.
"The Hartford and its agents have the training and
knowledge to assist
farmers in this growing industry," said Berry.
The Hartford Financial Services Group, Inc. (NYSE:
HIG) is one of the
nation's largest insurance and financial services
companies, with 2000
revenues of $14.7 billion. As of March 31, 200l, The
Hartford had assets of
$165.5 billion and shareholders' equity of $8.4
billion. The company is a
leading provider of investment products, life
insurance and employee
benefits; automobile and homeowners products;
commercial property and
casualty insurance; and reinsurance.
| Message 47
Subject: RE: Greenwater sludge>>methane
From: "Mark Allen Wells"
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 22:12:11 -0500
Steve, Brent.
I appreciate the technical feedback. I have been away
from this stuff for a while. Our tank was a huge,
welded
steel sphere. This system was set up back in the late
70's
though. Regulators vented excess gas to a torch that
burned
24/7. I will never forget hearing the alarms go off
one day.
Some nitwit contractor had spliced a line with a boot
material
made for water
.not gas! The sphere emptied into all
the
buildings. We evacuated 3 city blocks. It was a rush
ventilating
that entire plant (all buildings connected by
tunnels). We had
to use flashlights because we didn't want to risk
hitting
a light switch and igniting it.
I was just an operator but fascinated by the
technology. I have
been looking at the Powerpoint presentation at the
AgStar website
which is a joint effort between the EPA and DOE.
http://www.epa.gov/agstar/library/tech.html
They have examples of successful operations here in
the US. Lots of info
there. Ok
.out with the propane tanks
I'll keep
reading
lol.
Is storing it practical at all on a smaller scale? If
we could
get the states to pass favorable net metering laws, it
could be
used to run a generator. Minnesota is the only state I
know of
that requires energy producers to pay farmers retail
for the extra
electricity produced. This would go a long way to
making systems
pay for themselves.
Mark
| Message 48
Subject: RE: Hanging pots vs grow beds
From: "Hurst, Steve ( China)"
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 10:58:56 +0800
Okay Kris,
Your 'at' e moving to fast For me. I have just about got a
Handle
on the Spinning pots.
I will have to take a rain check on the "talking" bit
until I
have mastered the above !!
I 'at' m gonna be looking it up though
.
Steve H
SNIP
How about making the pots spinable, like a lazy Susan,
over all plant
health and harvest would be optimized by insuring
equal sun to each
plant. My wife always makes me turn all of her pots
and portable grow
beds. She grows bio-dynamically and has to have her
special dirt, heavy
dirt. I made the mistake of telling her,"why don't we
try to take some of
your garden dirt and put it in the greenhouse". It
worked so well that
she only wanted to use the greenhouse for her
vegetables and her
bio-dynamic garden was just used for flowers and
herbs. Oh, and a place
to keep her horn manure.
I told her that I didn't like giving up my greenhouse
but she said that
the veggies would be happier in the greenhouse. You
see, she was in this
gardening club, something called Peralandra (I think),
where they learned
old Druid techniques to communicate with plants. It's
like dowsing for
water or sometimes called Kinesiology. Please no
questions about this
stuff, if you're interested in any of this stuff do
an Internet search.
I've only been an observer but, I have seen great
results from all this
white witchery stuff.
Man talk about off-topic. Should I hold out my hands
to get the ruler
from the nun.
kris
| Message 49
Subject: Need pumps?
From: "Thomas Short"
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 21:11:18 -0700
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