Aquaponics Digest - Sat 07/28/01
Message 1: DO MESUREMENT
from pablo obiaga
Message 2: Re: Greenwater sludge>>methane
from dreadlox 'at' cwjamaica.com
Message 3: Re: Greenwater sludge>>methane
from dreadlox 'at' cwjamaica.com
Message 4: Re: 12 volt sump/bilge pump safety
from dreadlox 'at' cwjamaica.com
Message 5: Re: plumbing leaks
from dreadlox 'at' cwjamaica.com
Message 6: Re: Measurements
from dreadlox 'at' cwjamaica.com
Message 7: Re: Instrumentation
from dreadlox 'at' cwjamaica.com
Message 8: Bagels Aeration
from dreadlox 'at' cwjamaica.com
Message 9: Cooling for fooling
from dreadlox 'at' cwjamaica.com
Message 10: Humidity
from dreadlox 'at' cwjamaica.com
Message 11: RE: starting small
.very small. from "Mark Allen Wells"
Message 12: AC-DC
from Ray Schneider
Message 13: RE: Greenwater sludge>>bio-digestion
from "Mark Allen Wells"
Message 14: Fwd. Re: HTML
from S & S Aqua Farm
Message 15: RE: Fwd. Re: HTML
from "Mark Allen Wells"
Message 16: does anyone use a boiler system in their
greenhouse
from "gerry magnuson"
Message 17: RE: does anyone use a boiler system in
their greenhouse
from "Mark Allen Wells"
Message 18: Reply to - Re: Time to make it a business
from "David Atkinson"
Message 19: Re: Cooling for fooling
from "Brent Bingham"
Message 20: Re: New Business
from "Leon Klopfenstein"
Message 21: Re: DO MESUREMENT
from Mike Davey
Message 22: Re: AC-DC
from "Barry Thomas"
Message 23: Re: Cooling for fooling
from "gutierrez-lagatta"
Message 24: Re: New Business
from "gutierrez-lagatta"
Message 25: RE: New Business (Sell What You Sow)
from "Mark Allen Wells"
Message 26: Re: Cooling for fooling
from dreadlox 'at' cwjamaica.com
Message 27: RE: Greenwater sludge>>methane
from "Hurst, Steve ( China)"
Message 28: Spray efficiencys of pumps Ecoponic
system. from dreadlox 'at' cwjamaica.com
Message 29: Re: Greenwater sludge>>methane
from dreadlox 'at' cwjamaica.com
Message 30: Re: plumbing leaks
from fishmanbruce 'at' webtv.net (Bruce
Schreiber)
Message 31: Re: Cooling for fooling
from "Brent Bingham"
Message 32: RE: Spray efficiencys of pumps Ecoponic
system. from "Hurst, Steve ( China)"
Message 33: RE: Greenwater sludge>>methane-Digestion
List
from "Hurst, Steve ( China)"
Message 34: Re: plumbing leaks
from "Arlos"
Message 35: greenhouse frame info (reposted from a
newsgroup)
from "Nick"
| Message 1
Subject: DO MESUREMENT
From: pablo obiaga
Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 04:29:58 -0300
Hi All:
LAst time I was in BS Aires i looked for a DO
mter. They were arround U$A
300.
I was wondering. When these techy devices didnt exist.
How did people
manage do know DO?
Isnt there a way, involving a chemical reaction and
perhaps some calculus
that can avoid such expenses in electronics?
PAblo
| Message 2
Subject: Re: Greenwater sludge>>methane
From: dreadlox 'at' cwjamaica.com
Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 06:17:42 -0700
Mark, do a search for a guy called Fry in South
Africa, and biogas. He
was the "father" of biogas there, and his book shows a
LOT of simple
bell type reactors. They are easy and simple to make.
If your German is
still hot I would have a lot of diagrams somewhere.
OT- Humour._______________
While an apprentice I had to spec out a lot of gas
making plants,
(worked with one of the largest Electromechanical
firms
) I remember
once doing a hydrogen plant where everything needed to
be redone.
Why?? The operator in the Middle East had done some
repairs on the
rectifier circuit and had NOT checked the POLARITY. So
he started to
pump hydrogen under the oxygen "bell" dome which
basically sits in a
tank of water
. in "our' case would be your biomass,
etc.
All I will say is that some LITTLE spark occured one
day later, some
little discharge
and the next thing and the dome was
found in the
village 5 miles down the road
.that is after taking
off like a SCUD
missile, and doing an impressive rocket launch!!
Be CAREFUL guys!!
REcently I got called out to a site where I had
installed a natural
biofilter
. after long deliberations, they had called
me in. After
spending some time diagnosing I had a hunch and asked
if they had done
any rewiring
the answer was yes
Turns out my peeps had rewired and one of the pumps
was now running
backwards but none of the bigwigs had taken the time
to check th
rotation, they just were interested in hearing it run,
no wonder the
biofilters and gravel filters backed up on them!! NoT
NICE!!
HAve a good weekend folks
MIke
Mark Allen Wells wrote:
>
> Steve, Brent.>
> Ok
.out with the propane tanks
I'll keep
reading
lol.
> Is storing it practical at all on a smaller scale?
If we could
> get the states to pass favorable net metering laws,
it could be
> used to run a generator.
| Message 3
Subject: Re: Greenwater sludge>>methane
From: dreadlox 'at' cwjamaica.com
Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 06:20:06 -0700
Hurst, Steve ( China) wrote:
>
> Mark,
> I am on a similar quest to yourself.
Hey guys,
If you REally really want to get going get a handbook
from GATE, GTZ
organization in Germany, Im sure they have an English
version to their
manual. Their website is also very extensive on
Biogas. And Steve
. you
need to find out where your municipality throws their
rubbish.
Here in Jamaica, buying a "dump diver" a few
cigarettes and some food
and beer goes a long way. I ve seen sensors costing
3-5,000 US$ just
lying down in the rubbish, and these guys would just
rip them out and
give me them for free not knowing what they are for
but all these
fellows were interested in was copper or aluminium for
resale. I go with
friends and "order" parts
. I could get all the stuff
I needed put on
"order" :> These guys have a regular operation
man
.lol
Are you guys on the digestion list??
Mike
| Message 4
Subject: Re: 12 volt sump/bilge pump safety
From: dreadlox 'at' cwjamaica.com
Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 06:25:44 -0700
Carolyn I think Marc meant when these pumps are used
in equipment, or
when used in containers where a "flow" of current to
"ground" is not
obvious. In your case, say if you used metal housing
pumps, at a high
(above 50Volts DC) voltage dc, then grounding them
would be just another
safety factor that couldnt hurt.
The basic rule is that, current flows the route of
least resistance, so
basically as a rule of thumb for earthing
whenever
you can provide the
current a better route to flow than through your body,
you have
effectively minimized your risk of getting shocked.
Mike
Carolyn Hoagland wrote:
> Is that what we call "grounded" here in the US?
>
> >Marc Nameth wrote:
> >1. GOOD grounding is essential to safety.
> I have never seen a 12v DC system be grounded. Can
you explain how
> this is done? A quick search of the web turned up
nothing but
> instructions about AC.
>
> Thanks
> Carolyn
| Message 5
Subject: Re: plumbing leaks
From: dreadlox 'at' cwjamaica.com
Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 06:32:44 -0700
Chris, for us in international waters
what is BOL-
wax made of?? I
certainly can use this on some of the connection I
made just handfitted
last week on the rainwater system, but I have no idea
what this is made
from.
Thanks.
Mike
Chris Jeppesen wrote:
>
> If you'r useing plastic pipe with out glue and you
have a few drip drips that drive you nuts, use a
little bol-wax in the joint. Works great and is easyer
to take apart later.
> Chris Jeppesen
>
| Message 6
Subject: Re: Measurements
From: dreadlox 'at' cwjamaica.com
Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 06:34:51 -0700
Been away a few days, so this is late
. but very
interesting Andrei.
==> think Nitrate levels in tank
==> Nitrate levels in return water
==> (alarm for too close a difference equals Biofilter
or growbed
malfunction)
In my case, security functions.==> two legged and four legged sensing
.:) motion
sensing, is someone
near the installation, if so unauthorised camera on,
alarm etc.
==> pump cycle monitoring with flowmeter or simple
conductvity test,
for water flow.Is water getting to the node
needed? Is water reaching
the right depth in the bed?
==> EC, conductivity logs of nutrient water.==> DO of water in tanks!! MOST important of course.Necessary alarms
if not compliant.
Andrei.Calciu 'at' hn.va.nec.com wrote:
>
> Folks,
>
> Is there a complete list of all the different
variables that are (or
> should) be measured in an aquaponics setup? I am
trying to create a
> monitoring spreadsheet and I would like to have it
as complete as possible.
> To give y'all a push start, here is a short (meaning
incomplete) collection
> of parameters I thought of:
>
> Air temperature inside greenhouse/building
> Air temperature outside
> Humidity outside
> Humidity inside
> Water temp in tank
> DO in tank
> pH in tank
> Conductivity in tank
> root temperature in grow beds
> DO at exit from grow beds
> pH at exit from grow beds
>
> etc, etc, etc,
>
> Now start filling in and get creative.
| Message 7
Subject: Re: Instrumentation
From: dreadlox 'at' cwjamaica.com
Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 06:35:00 -0700
Mark, I have used that meter for my "hobby"
measurement. Luckily I work
with fellows in the water monitoring field, and so ask
them to do my
checks whenever I have something to be tested.
For my hobby needs it works. However where I am
dissappointed with that
meter is the battery consumption. I have left
batteries in it for a few
days and Whammmo
. they are out like a light.
Not fun!!
Mike
JAMAICA.
Mark Allen Wells wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> Has anyone used the "Water Test" meter from Hanna
> instruments?
>
> http://www.automatedaquariums.com/h_wtest.htm
>
> I am looking for a decent meter at a reasonable
cost. One
> thing I like about this one is it tests for PH, EC,
ORP, and temp
> all in one meter. At around $144.00 it would seem a
good value.
> Feedback on any other good meters is appreciated.
>
> Mark
| Message 8
Subject: Bagels Aeration
From: dreadlox 'at' cwjamaica.com
Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 06:45:33 -0700
Bagelhole1 'at' aol.com wrote:
>
> Hi everyone,
> I used to be on this list, back in 1999, I
think, somehow I got off, but
> Kris Book reminded me of it, so I'm glad to be back
on.
Kris!!
Great to see you this side of the Millenium and still
alive
.!!
(smiling)
What options have YOU considered ?? Airstones,
paddlewheels, blowers??
You would be the best person to say
.as we may not
see things as
splashing , risk of wet walkways etc.
Which options have you looked into? There is a myriad
of options, its
just to figure which one suits you best. What
criterion have you used so
far, and where are the hitches in your mind.
Mike
JAMAICA.
| Message 9
Subject: Cooling for fooling
From: dreadlox 'at' cwjamaica.com
Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 06:52:59 -0700
Brent what type of fish are you doing in this system.
Im glad to see you
here too. I am looking seriously into the coolers you
suggested on the
hydro list, for another application.
For those in the tropics, what would be interesting to
farm in a warm
country that could be economical? Like could we
produce trout more
Economically than our friends in Canada?
Im interested basically to know what other things
could I do with the
cooling effect other than taking advantage of spawning
habits??
Sincerely.
Mike.
Brent Bingham wrote:
In hot climates the cooling is the Key part. We cool
our
> breeding fish under the greenhouse walkways and
fool them into spawning
> more times per year. The cooling also allows us to
process and ship at lower
> costs.
> Brent
| Message 10
Subject: Humidity
From: dreadlox 'at' cwjamaica.com
Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 06:57:25 -0700
kris book wrote:
>
> Steve H,
>
> I am still not sure about what you said,
>
> " Can 'at' t set up an evap cooler as its to humid "
>
Ron Polka on this list sent an FABULOUS mail that is a
landmark mail on
this topic, will see if I can find that mail. You may
be faster tahn I
am in the archives
MIke.
| Message 11
Subject: RE: starting small
.very small.From: "Mark Allen Wells"
Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 08:07:45 -0500
>I have 2 whiskey barrels that I'm hoping to set up
with a small
aquaponic system to grow a few lettuce plants.
Hi Mary,
I have some info I printed a long time ago from a
website that
seems to have disappeared
.Hydro/Aquatic
Technologies. They had
plans that for a 25gal system using a barrel and
plastic gutters.
I have not tried it but I can scan it today and turn
it back into
a file I can send if you like. It is kind of long to
transcribe
here. I like whiskey barrels too (mine have potatoes
in them at
the moment) and have thought of trying something on
the patio. They
are quite easy to turn into tanks with the plastic
linings you can
get at Lowe's, Home Depot, etc. You could possibly use
another system
design that used 2 more barrels and the shallower
liners I have seen.
Fill those with pea gravel and make them your
growbeds. There are
lots of ways of doing things
.which is part of the
fun.
Mark
| Message 12
Subject: AC-DC
From: Ray Schneider
Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 08:52:42 -0400
Also it may be just my imagination, but 110v DC hurt
me a great deal more than 110v AC ever did. -- said
Roy.
Absolutely! -- 110 VDC delivers the full voltage to
the load the full time. 110 VAC is only at 110 twice
a cycle and the average is appreciably less than 110
so it is less of a jolt.
--
Ray Schneider
rschneid 'at' shentel.net
On the Search for the PERFECT tomato.
Come See Me at:
http://www.user.shentel.net/rschneid
| Message 13
Subject: RE: Greenwater sludge>>bio-digestion
From: "Mark Allen Wells"
Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 08:23:09 -0500
>So, from and aquaponics view bio-digestion to produce
energy may
not be practical with the volume needed.
After I posted this yesterday, my friend Raul sent me
a note
I wanted to share that was very interesting.----
Hello Mark:
I would only correct a point. I am sure that
biodigestion can
play an important role in the Aquaponics system, as we
can
separate the greatest part of the feces, leaving the
water
cleaner for the system. The separated feces can be
biodigested,
and the resulting biofertilizer can be aded to the
rearing tanks.
So, the culture beds can work much more clean from
solids.
The solids can be separated in two stages. The first
one is a decanter
(clarifier, as you call) system, and its eficiency
will be
proportional to the water velocity and to the lamelar
flow inside it.
The second stage can be a screen filter, and its
eficiency is
proportional to the mesh size of the screens. An ideal
point should be
used for the screens, as small mesh sizes tend to clog
more
easily. If we have a water free of solids the best we
can, we can use
other hydroponic system, cheaper than the gravel
system, like a floating
bed system.
The systems at UVI
http://www.aquaponics.com/articlegreenwater.htmare
an example of that. If we return the biofertilizer to
the water,
we will have more nutrients in it, and we can rise the
number of
growing beds. I think that this is very important.
Note that in UVI,
they carry the feces to an aerobic digestion pond, and
they discard the
digested efluent to the soil. If digested in an
anaerobic system,
this efluent could return to the hydroponic system.
Well, this is all for today.
May God bless you, my friend.
Raul
| Message 14
Subject: Fwd. Re: HTML
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 09:04:22 -0500
>From: "Thomas Short"
>To: "S & S Aqua Farm"
>Subject: Re: HTML
>Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 06:44:20 -0700
>
>I am using MSN Internt Explorer free download. I
can't find a way to turn
off The HTML! Does anyone know how?
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: S & S Aqua Farm
>
>Thomas, please send to the list in plain text only.
Here's what your
>message looks like to most of the group, and how it
will appear in the
>digest version.
>
>Paula
| Message 15
Subject: RE: Fwd. Re: HTML
From: "Mark Allen Wells"
Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 09:16:12 -0500
Thomas,
If you are using outlook express with explorer,
when you send a note or replay, click the Format
button
then click plain text. If you still have
problems email, mail me at mawells 'at' bpsinet.com and
I will try to help.
also check Tools>Options>Mail Format
.make sure it
is set to plain text.
Mark
| Message 16
Subject: does anyone use a boiler system in their
greenhouse
From: "gerry magnuson"
Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 04:25:31 -1000
I am seeking a reasonable system to use with wood, as
I have 90+ acres of
forest, and also a cheap source of coal
.coffeecowboy
>From: S & S Aqua Farm
>Reply-To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
>To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
>Subject: Fwd. Re: HTML
>Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 09:04:22 -0500
>
>
> >From: "Thomas Short"
> >To: "S & S Aqua Farm"
> >Subject: Re: HTML
> >Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 06:44:20 -0700
> >
> >I am using MSN Internt Explorer free download. I
can't find a way to turn
>off The HTML! Does anyone know how?
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: S & S Aqua Farm
> >
> >Thomas, please send to the list in plain text only.
Here's what your
> >message looks like to most of the group, and how it
will appear in the
> >digest version.
> >
> >Paula
>
| Message 17
Subject: RE: does anyone use a boiler system in their
greenhouse
From: "Mark Allen Wells"
Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 09:46:03 -0500
>I am seeking a reasonable system to use with wood, as
I have 90+ acres of
forest, and also a cheap source of coal
.coffeecowboy
There is a lot of information on wood heat at:
http://www.woodheat.org
.including outdoor boilers.
If you are fairly isolated from neighbors, they may be
a good choice. Most of the outdoor furnaces are
adaptable
to hydronic heating. If a building is near by that can
house
the furnace you may look at the type of furnaces that
Charmaster and others sell.
http://www.charmaster.com/images/hotwater/waterfurnace.jpg
Good info on hydronic heat in general here.
http://www.ipexinc.com/hydronic/hydheat.html
hope this helps,
mark
| Message 18
Subject: Reply to - Re: Time to make it a business
From: "David Atkinson"
Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 11:26:55 -0400
Ditto,
David A
(from Jamaica W.I
)
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Westbrook
To:
Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 8:13 PM
Subject: Re: Time to make it a business
> Kris,
>
> I would appreciate a copy if you are so inclined.
>
> Thanks,
> Mike
>
> kris book wrote:
>
> > Mike,
> >
> > Doug Peckenpaugh, the editor at "The Growing Edge"
magazine is sending
me
> > all printed material that he can find concerning
aquaponics/hydroponics.
snip
., snip
| Message 19
Subject: Re: Cooling for fooling
From: "Brent Bingham"
Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 09:28:58 -0700
We have a good market for Catfish and they are very
hearty. The Trout need
fast moving water to keep them in shape. The cost of
pumping made it a
little to costly to raise good firm Trout. The Catfish
eat everything that
does not go into the Biogas digesters. They eat the
roots that grow through
the top of the beds and through the floating greens.
Many things grow better
in the cooler tanks.
Brent
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2001 6:52 AM
Subject: Cooling for fooling
> Brent what type of fish are you doing in this
system. Im glad to see you
> here too. I am looking seriously into the coolers
you suggested on the
> hydro list, for another application.
>
> For those in the tropics, what would be interesting
to farm in a warm
> country that could be economical? Like could we
produce trout more
> Economically than our friends in Canada?
>
> Im interested basically to know what other things
could I do with the
> cooling effect other than taking advantage of
spawning habits??
>
> Sincerely.
>
> Mike.
>
>
>
> Brent Bingham wrote:
> In hot climates the cooling is the Key part. We
cool our
> > breeding fish under the greenhouse walkways and
fool them into spawning
> > more times per year. The cooling also allows us to
process and ship at
lower
> > costs.
> > Brent
>
| Message 20
Subject: Re: New Business
From: "Leon Klopfenstein"
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 23:49:55 -0400
He focuses on the pitfalls of starting a new business.
His concern is that
most entrepreneurs get caught up in production and not
in management. He
feels that every business should be run with the
intent to sell the system.
(McDonalds, Wendy's, etc.) Every input into the system
should be documented
in detail so that the end product is identical time
after time. Instructions
should be detailed enough that you could hand the
operating plan to someone
and they could reproduce it without you. (Squirt five
pumps of pink floor
cleaner in 2 gallon of 120 degree water. Wet the mop
and wipe each section 3
times or until clean. etc) He also talks about the
failure rates of small
business and why they fail.
Hope this helps
Leon
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 7:12 PM
Subject: Re: New Business
> Hi Leon!!
>
> Could you tell me a little more of what to expect???
>
> Mike.
> JAMAICA.
>
>
> Leon Klopfenstein wrote:
> >
> > For those interested in starting a new business,
you might want to
> > take the time to purchase, (and read) the book by
Michael Gerber:"The
> > E-Myth". He might have a couple printings. Get the
latest one.
> >
> > Leon
>
| Message 21
Subject: Re: DO MESUREMENT
From: Mike Davey
Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 12:05:31 -0500
There are a number of test kits available for DO. Most
for the test
kits are based on modifications of the Winkler
titration method. Red
Sea sell one for about $20, often available at your
local pet store.
LaMotte makes a better one for about $35, Aquatic
Ecosystems and
Stoney Creak carry it.
The LaMotte one uses 4 dropper bottles and a powder.
It also has a
direct reading dropper that reads ppm of DO as you do
it. Takes about
3 to 4 min to take a reading.
The bad side of test kits are the time it takes and
the accuracy.
Well it's really not the accuracy so much as the
resolution of the
test. That is you will know if your DO is 3ppm or 4ppm
not that it is
3.45ppm. In most cases that's all you really need to
know anyway. If
it's at 3ppm you have problems I'm not sure it really
matters for
most of use it it's 3.00ppm or 3.15ppm.
They also can be more costly if you need to take a lot
of readings.
Meters for the most part are a fixed one time cost no
mater how much
you use it, up to a point. Test kits cost for each
test you take. I
believe the Lamotte test kit will do something like 80
tests, that's
say $0.45 a test less one you get to the refills for
the original
kit. In a small system it would take a few years of
one test a day to
cost more than the meter, but then your time is always
worth
something.
Mike
>Hi All:
> LAst time I was in BS Aires i looked for a DO
mter. They were
>arround U$A
>300.
>I was wondering. When these techy devices didnt
exist. How did people
>manage do know DO?
>Isnt there a way, involving a chemical reaction and
perhaps some calculus
>that can avoid such expenses in electronics?
>
>PAblo
| Message 22
Subject: Re: AC-DC
From: "Barry Thomas"
Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 18:31:12 +0100
Ray,
> Absolutely! -- 110 VDC delivers the full voltage to
the load the full
time.
> 110 VAC is only at 110 twice a cycle and the average
is appreciably
> less than 110 so it is less of a jolt.
Actually, no. AC volts are usually given as their RMS
(root mean square)
value which is equivalent power to DCV of same value
(when AC is a sine
wave). Hook a resistance to 1 VAC and another to 1 VDC
and you'll get the
same amount of heat produced in both.
Peak ACV is around 1.414 RMS so here (UK) we have 240V
mains supply giving
peak voltages of approx 339V either side of ground.
Serious zaps - be
careful.
As has been said, 12 VDC is fairly safe. I would just
make sure that the
battery is in a lockable box and the cable fused close
to the battery.
Barry
barrythomas 'at' btinternet.com
| Message 23
Subject: Re: Cooling for fooling
From: "gutierrez-lagatta"
Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 13:47:42 -0500
Brent,
I assumed that Mike's question was how to take
advantage of a rare
commodity in the tropics - cool water and air, to
produce something
cheaper than in other locations. Am I correct Mike?
Is it more costly to pump water through a fast moving
raceway than to
a grow bed? I would think that strategic design might
provide the
necessary speed.
One thought I had along these lines, Mike, is to take
advantage of the
cool water and air to grow plant species which
normally don't grow in
the tropics, for example pansies and a lot of
lettuces, etc.
Mache/corn salad, if you're so inclined loves cold
weather (but 52
days is to long to wait for a 2" plant, in my
opinion). Think tulips,
daffodils, spring bulbs.> The Trout need
> fast moving water to keep them in shape. The cost of
pumping made it
a
> little to costly to raise good firm Trout.
> > For those in the tropics, what would be
interesting to farm in a
warm
> > country that could be economical? Like could we
produce trout more
> > Economically than our friends in Canada?
> > Im interested basically to know what other things
could I do with
the
> > cooling effect other than taking advantage of
spawning habits??
Adriana
| Message 24
Subject: Re: New Business
From: "gutierrez-lagatta"
Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 13:51:48 -0500
He uis SO right Leon. Hydroponic and aquaponic
processes are very
SEDUCTIVE and it is easy to get distracted from the
primary mission of
most ventures which is to MAXIMIZE REVENUE. For
example, it may be
very romantic to supply a broad range of products
directly to chefs
such as tomatoes, herbs, lettuces, cucumbers,
etc
.but it may be much
more profitable to use the same square footage of
greenhouse to grow
strictly basil for sale to a wholesaler, if the price
is right.
Adriana
> He focuses on the pitfalls of starting a new
business. His concern
is that
> most entrepreneurs get caught up in production and
not in
management.
| Message 25
Subject: RE: New Business (Sell What You Sow)
From: "Mark Allen Wells"
Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 15:13:02 -0500
>Hydroponic and aquaponic processes are very SEDUCTIVE
and it
>is easy to get distracted from the primary mission of
most ventures
>which is to MAXIMIZE REVENUE.
I have been reading an excellent book I picked up from
the library
called "Sell What You Sow
.The Grower's Guide To
Successful Produce
Marketing". It covers wholesaling, retailing, CSA's
as well as things
like regulations, packaging, etc
I liked one review
on the back cover;
"There is one crop you must grow in order to be
successful in farming,
and that is the specialty greens they call 'profit'.
This is the book
that shows you how to do it". Jim Hightower, radio
commentator
A longer review can be read here:
http://www.joe.org/joe/1994december/tt3.html
Many of you may have this book
.but if you don't and
want to sell
produce, it is a must for your library and a great
value.
"Outstanding!" Howard Kerr, director USDA office for
Small Scale
Agriculture
Mark
| Message 26
Subject: Re: Cooling for fooling
From: dreadlox 'at' cwjamaica.com
Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 16:11:12 -0700
gutierrez-lagatta wrote:
>
> Brent,
> I assumed that Mike's question was how to take
advantage of a rare
> commodity in the tropics - cool water and air, to
produce something
> cheaper than in other locations. Am I correct Mike?
Yes, Adrianna. You are right. (I havent forgotten you,
was just away!!)
Brent used waste oil to heat his cooling machine. I
would like to use
heliostats, or solar troughs
another fascination
of mine
> One thought I had along these lines, Mike, is to
take advantage of the
> cool water and air to grow plant species which
normally don't grow in
> the tropics, for example pansies and a lot of
lettuces, etc.
Think tulips, daffodils, spring bulbs.
I hear you. I know things like the lettuce would do
well. For me it is
the difference between moving away from my parish, or
staying close by.
I need a sure winner to start with, but I am sure that
the flower market
is one that could be looked into.
Brent, where do you get your waste oil in bulk?
And how often do you have to fire the "jenny" up??
Could you give us some comparisons, as to how much
water, oil for how
much cooling etc? or what thumb rules are you using??
You have been
patient enough on all the questions for the other
group, please bear
with us here too.Just give us a feel of how much cooling we can expect.
Knowing the
statistics is one thing, I know. But sometimes hearing
that you cool a
1500 sq ft home plus 8000 gals of water plus etc.every X hours, from
xa degrees down to xb degs.
Something like that??
Im sure people like Ron Polka and I would appreciate
that.
(smile.)
Mike
| Message 27
Subject: RE: Greenwater sludge>>methane
From: "Hurst, Steve ( China)"
Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 06:14:33 +0800
Mike,
Nice idea, but in the philipinnes nothing goes to
waste, except
really un-usable trash ! Whole communities live on top
of the Manila
trash dumps, sorting through it as it comes in.
Thanks for that Tip on GATE /GTZ, will check it out.
Where is the Digestion list Mike ?
Steve H
SNIOP
Hey guys,
If you REally really want to get going get a handbook
from GATE, GTZ
organization in Germany, Im sure they have an English
version to their
manual. Their website is also very extensive on
Biogas. And Steve
. you
need to find out where your municipality throws their
rubbish.
Here in Jamaica, buying a "dump diver" a few
cigarettes and some food
and beer goes a long way. I ve seen sensors costing
3-5,000 US$ just
lying down in the rubbish, and these guys would just
rip them out and
give me them for free not knowing what they are for
but all these
fellows were interested in was copper or aluminium for
resale. I go with
friends and "order" parts
. I could get all the stuff
I needed put on
"order" :> These guys have a regular operation
man
.lol
Are you guys on the digestion list??
Mike
| Message 28
Subject: Spray efficiencys of pumps Ecoponic system.From: dreadlox 'at' cwjamaica.com
Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 17:42:33 -0700
Steve, it has been mentioned before here, but a
number of the Brandname
aerators are just a vacuum cleaner run in reverse, so
thats another
route to check out
. or some more beer for your
dumpster diver
friend
lol ( see my previous post re that issue
)
I have thought of the coolig effect of having tanks on
the roof, and
used to feel silly till I went up a stairwell in a 4
star hotel in
Turkey, and saw then have a roof "growbed" system. No
wonder the lobby
and walkways were so cool!! I have pics and will scan
soon.
I had a slab roof above me even where I type now, and
it was MISERABLE
then in summer. I used to stretch a tarp a few feet
over the slab and
achieved about a 5-9 degree difference, which was JUST
heavenly.
Now I have put up a more permanent design with steel
struts etc.and my
roof is cooler. I have wonder asking neighbours to put
a canvas growbeds
with say hyacinth on their roof just for the cooling
teat
:>
They get the cool, I get clean water
Some of us need to combine the ideas of our growbeds
into our very
farmhouses and HOMES folks
in case anyone is
wondering what this has
to do with AQUAponix.
Something I seem to miss seeing someone write
about
.I think Adrianna
corrected someone recentlly
. is that of FLOW
SPLITTING
. so what if
flows are too high
. split a bit of the flow through
a showerhead with
a valve before it, back to the growtank
. and in the
other you pipe to
the application you need. So one gets both aeration
and the desired flow
you need, without having to change pumps.
Consider another angle Steve. How much cooling does
the growbeds afford
you, and are the pigsties strong enough to support the
weight of the
water
.??
More concrete
.etc. I have been where you have been,
but more for my
own home which I intend on building myself with most
systems
ecofriendly. I can relate to your quest! Stay cool! :>
Mike
JAMAICA
Hurst, Steve ( China) wrote:
>
> Interested in the same point.
> My experiments with trying to save electricity
> by cutting down on the pump size/velocity has
resulted in me having to
> start up my aerators again.
> Other possibility I am looking into is the reverse
of this idea, which is actually to build the tanks on
top of the Pigstys, to give enough head to the liguid
to spray
> out of the distribution grid on the grow bed. (
running from a standpipe
> in the tank, and emptying using a timed/actuated
valve to growbeds ),
>
> I need to be able to maintain Tilapia levels at the
higher stocking densitys to make it viable, so I
beleive I may have to live with the higher power
requirements
> of the larger pumps.
>
| Message 29
Subject: Re: Greenwater sludge>>methane
From: dreadlox 'at' cwjamaica.com
Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 17:51:32 -0700
Hurst, Steve ( China) wrote:
>
> Mike,
> Where is the Digestion list Mike ?
>
> Steve H
Its at CREST. digestion 'at' crest.org Kris posted a mail
how to get
connected definetly
. past possible problems.
Mike.
>
> Are you guys on the digestion list??
>
> Mike
--
><{{{*> Mike Barnett <*}}}><
JAMAICA, West Indies
| Message 30
Subject: Re: plumbing leaks
From: fishmanbruce 'at' webtv.net (Bruce Schreiber)
Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 18:28:45 -0500 (CDT)
Mike its soft wax that is sold in rings to seal
toilets to bathroom
floors so you don't get sewage on your floor when you
flush the toilet
Bruce
| Message 31
Subject: Re: Cooling for fooling
From: "Brent Bingham"
Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 16:35:28 -0700
We went to floating rafts in the water raceways for
several reasons. It
insulated the cool water. It allowed us to raise
greens and herbs in the
high heat. We also could raise cool water fish and
fresh water shrimp. The
cool water also helped cool the houses. We continue to
look at maximizing
the $$$ with energy savings.
----- Original Message -----
From: "gutierrez-lagatta"
To:
Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2001 11:47 AM
Subject: Re: Cooling for fooling
> Brent,
> I assumed that Mike's question was how to take
advantage of a rare
> commodity in the tropics - cool water and air, to
produce something
> cheaper than in other locations. Am I correct Mike?
>
> Is it more costly to pump water through a fast
moving raceway than to
> a grow bed? I would think that strategic design
might provide the
> necessary speed.
>
> One thought I had along these lines, Mike, is to
take advantage of the
> cool water and air to grow plant species which
normally don't grow in
> the tropics, for example pansies and a lot of
lettuces, etc.
> Mache/corn salad, if you're so inclined loves cold
weather (but 52
> days is to long to wait for a 2" plant, in my
opinion). Think tulips,
> daffodils, spring bulbs.> > The Trout need
> > fast moving water to keep them in shape. The cost
of pumping made it
> a
> > little to costly to raise good firm Trout.
> > > For those in the tropics, what would be
interesting to farm in a
> warm
> > > country that could be economical? Like could we
produce trout more
> > > Economically than our friends in Canada?
>
> > > Im interested basically to know what other
things could I do with
> the
> > > cooling effect other than taking advantage of
spawning habits??
>
> Adriana
>
>
| Message 32
Subject: RE: Spray efficiencys of pumps Ecoponic
system.From: "Hurst, Steve ( China)"
Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 08:02:43 +0800
Hi Mike,
Sounds like I am several years behind you on the same
path !
Water temperatures appear to remain steady throughout
the system,
but I think that I do get large fluctuations as the
water crosses the grow
bed.
I should know whitin a couple of Months
I have some temp probes on the way from a company
called "point6".
They manufacture a variety of sensors that connect
into the Dallas
Semicionductors
"1 Wire" network. This is the same system that the
(relatively) well known
Dallas Semiconductor Weather station runs on. You can
get probes for
temp / Humidity / PH and a variety of other stuff. All
connects back to the
PC and records readings. Nowhere near the cost of
Other logging systems.
You have to be a bit of a PC "tinkerer" to set it up
though.
So , when I go off to work in China, my PC should be
recording all the
stuff that I need to know when I get home.
I have noticed the same thing Ref Drop in Temperature
in the House. My
Trial Nodes have been set up on My Wifes shop next
door. Flat roof,
unbearable
during the Day. Since we set up the Trial nodes, there
has been a noticeable
Reduction in Temperature inside the shop. So Much so
that I am re-designing
the House thats being built up on our Fish/Pig land.
Basically lots of
little
mini "flat bits" where Grow beds and fish tanks can be
placed to help cool
the place. Was even thinking about building Concrete
Fish Tanks into the
design
of the House. Thats easy, making them look "nice" is
not so easy.
"Stay Cool"
. I like that, maybe it should be a sort
of Tropical sign off
Steve H
SNIP
I have thought of the cooling effect of having tanks
on the roof, and
used to feel silly till I went up a stairwell in a 4
star hotel in
Turkey, and saw then have a roof "growbed" system. No
wonder the lobby
and walkways were so cool!! I have pics and will scan
soon.
I had a slab roof above me even where I type now, and
it was MISERABLE
then in summer. I used to stretch a tarp a few feet
over the slab and
achieved about a 5-9 degree difference, which was JUST
heavenly.
Now I have put up a more permanent design with steel
struts etc.and my
roof is cooler. I have wonder asking neighbours to put
a canvas growbeds
with say hyacinth on their roof just for the cooling
teat
:>
They get the cool, I get clean water
Some of us need to combine the ideas of our growbeds
into our very
farmhouses and HOMES folks
in case anyone is
wondering what this has
to do with AQUAponix.
Something I seem to miss seeing someone write
about
.I think Adrianna
corrected someone recentlly
. is that of FLOW
SPLITTING
. so what if
flows are too high
. split a bit of the flow through
a showerhead with
a valve before it, back to the growtank
. and in the
other you pipe to
the application you need. So one gets both aeration
and the desired flow
you need, without having to change pumps.
Consider another angle Steve. How much cooling does
the growbeds afford
you, and are the pigsties strong enough to support the
weight of the
water
.??
More concrete
.etc. I have been where you have been,
but more for my
own home which I intend on building myself with most
systems
ecofriendly. I can relate to your quest! Stay cool! :>
Mike
JAMAICA
h
| Message 33
Subject: RE: Greenwater sludge>>methane-Digestion List
From: "Hurst, Steve ( China)"
Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 08:17:26 +0800
Thanks Mike,
Vaguely remember that now you mention it. Will check
back
through the recent stuff,
Steve H
SNIP
> Where is the Digestion list Mike ?
>
> Steve H
Its at CREST. digestion 'at' crest.org Kris posted a mail
how to get
connected definetly
. past possible problems.
Mike.
>
> Are you guys on the digestion list??
>
> Mike
--
><{{{*> Mike Barnett <*}}}><
JAMAICA, West Indies
| Message 34
Subject: Re: plumbing leaks
From: "Arlos"
Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 20:04:57 -0700
That (wax ring) is the nastiest stuff to get on your
hands. It's almost
impossible to wash off. I honestly couldn't imagine it
to repair leaks on
PVC ?
-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Schreiber
To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
Date: Saturday, July 28, 2001 4:28 PM
Subject: Re: plumbing leaks
Mike its soft wax that is sold in rings to seal
toilets to bathroom
floors so you don't get sewage on your floor when you
flush the toilet
Bruce
| Message 35
Subject: greenhouse frame info (reposted from a
newsgroup)
From: "Nick"
Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 20:56:11 -0700
Thought this might be of interest to someone looking
for greenhouse frames.
This is reposted here from a newsgroup and written by
Nick Pine. He live in
Pennsylvania, USA, I think, so shipping quoted below
may not apply.
nick jones
<<>>
>
.Who built them?
The last kit was manufactured by X. S. Smith in NJ. We
bought it used
from a grower who was expanding into gutter-connected
houses. The first
2 came from H. Schwartz & Sons, wholesale pipe dealers
and benders in
Wilmington, DE (800) 523-3500. We're considering
doubling the greenhouse
area next year by adding 2 of their 26'x96' "Leeward"
houses, $1996 each
plus $25 for delivery.
They might charge more to deliver these "polytunnels"
to Oz :-)
This is just the price for the frame, not including
plastic film,
endwalls, irrigation, controls, or plant supports
built on site.
You might think of a square foot of greenhouse as a PV
panel that
collects solar heat at $0.01 per peak watt :-)
Nick
|
