Aquaponics Digest - Mon 08/06/01
Message 1: Re: Aquaponics Subject: Family farm definition
from marc
Message 2: Re: spirulina
from "Attie Esterhuyse"
Message 3: RE: Threat to farmer's market
from "Mark Allen Wells"
Message 4: RE: Threat to farmer's market
from "Mark Allen Wells"
Message 5: Re: Gone Fission or Uranium in My Granite Sand Makes My Grow Beds Glow!!
from "Dorothy Mann"
Message 6: Re: Gone Fission or Uranium in My Granite Sand Makes My Grow Beds Glow!!
from "gerry magnuson"
Message 7: nukes and such . from Ray Schneider
Message 8: Re: nukes and such . from "gerry magnuson"
Message 9: Re: Bush the threat to farmer's markets
from (Bruce Schreiber)
Message 10: Re: nukes and such . from (Bruce Schreiber)
Message 11: Enough already!
from "Pete and Diana Scholtens"
Message 12: Re: nukes and such
from "Mark Allen Wells"
Message 13: RE: Enough already!
from "Mark Allen Wells"
Message 14: Re: nukes and such . from "Barry Thomas"
Message 15: Help needed on some research questions
from "bennett"
Message 16: RE: Help needed on some research questions
from "Mark Allen Wells"
Message 17: Re: Enough already!
from kris book
Message 18: Re: Help needed on some research questions
from kris book
Message 19: Steve Diver -- was Re: Help needed on some research questions
from "bennett"
Message 20: Steve Diver -- was Re: Help needed on some research questions
from "bennett"
Message 21: Re: Bush the threat to farmer's markets
from "Lloyd R. Prentice"
Message 22: Re: Bush the threat to farmer's markets
from Andrei Calciu
Message 23: Re: Bush the threat to farmer's markets
from "KenHale"
Message 24: Re: Aquaponics Subject: Family farm definition
from marc
Message 25: Re: Bush the threat to farmer's markets
from "Brent Bingham"
Message 26: Re: Bush the threat to farmer's markets
from "Brent Bingham"
Message 27: Re: Steve Diver -- was Re: Help needed on some research questions
from kris book
Message 28: Re: nukes and such
from "Brent Bingham"
Message 29: Address issues -slightly OT
from "gutierrez-lagatta"
Message 30: Religion, politics, and women
from Peggy & Emmett
Message 31: Re: spirulina
from "Robert Rogers"
Message 32: Trop. Storm Barry
from "Jay Myers"
Message 33: Re: Trop. Storm Barry
from kris book
Message 34: Gone Fission, etc.
from "TGTX"
Message 35: Re: Warm water species in a cold climate
from dreadlox
Message 36: RE: nukes and such
from "Mark Allen Wells"
Message 37: Re: Help needed on some research questions
from "Cary Dizon"
Message 38: cherry tomato varieties
from "Mark Allen Wells"
. .
| Message 1
Subject: Re: Aquaponics Subject: Family farm definition
From: marc
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 00:39:19 -0600
You have hit on a serious point here Miriam. The family farm
is a small and politically weak unit. In the last census
there was no classification for farmer even.
The current state of political affairs is towards legislated
usage of private land for environmental and social projects
WITHOUT the reimbursement for the loss to the farmer.
Fortunately it has been difficult for legislatures to follow
this nasty idea as the US Supreme Court ruled against this
practice as follows: (I quote)
----
Farm Bureau applauds land rights decision
The American Farm Bureau Federation today hails a Supreme
Court decision
stating that landowners are entitled to seek compensation
when they are
forbidden by government from realizing their property's full
economic
potential.
"The court's decision is a considerable victory for
landowners and the fight
many have been forced to wage against government attempts to
block landowner
takings claims," said American Farm Bureau Federation
President Bob
Stallman. "The court weakened troublesome obstacles to
landowner takings
claims and expressed dissatisfaction with existing rules
that hinder
'partial takings' claims."
AFBF and the Rhode Island Farm Bureau filed an amicus brief
supporting
landowner Anthony Palazzolo who was prevented from
developing land by the
state's Coastal Resources Management Council. Palazzolo
bought 18 acres in
1959, with the long-term plan to build 74 homes. In 1978,
Palazzolo changed
title of his land from his single shareholder corporation to
himself
individually.
Despite several attempts to satisfy the council's rulings,
the state
repeatedly rejected Palazzolo's amended plans for more than
four decades.
When he ultimately sought compensation for his loss, the
state court
rejected his claim, citing the change of title, and claiming
his property
had not lost its entire value.
"Rejecting this landowner's best efforts to comply with the
coastal
council's changing demands clearly devalued the property,"
said Stallman.
"The council's action effectively limited the use of the
bulk of the land
solely to a public wildlife refuge, without the public
bearing any expense.
"Farm Bureau was also extremely troubled by the state's
rules changes due to
a 'paper change' in ownership. Such actions occur frequently
when farm
families transfer land ownership to assure that their land
stays in farming
and under their family's control. The Supreme Court rejected
the state
court's ruling that would have deprived heirs and successors
of any right to
file a compensation claim."
The court remanded the case back to Rhode Island to
determine whether there
was a detrimental economic impact on Palazzolo's investment
potential.
"When government restricts the use of private property to
create a public
benefit, then the landowner should be compensated," Stallman
said.
The court also ruled in Palazzolo's favor merely by
considering the case
because the state claimed he should have pursued other
procedural options
before litigation was necessary. According to Stallman, the
council's
constant delaying tactics resulted prevented the property
owner from
achieving his land's full economic potential
----
Essentially the same thing is being pushed in Colorado
intensely. The legislature is becoming predominantly
Democratic with the usual socialist and communist ideas that
come with that party. In a communication from my
representative this year I received the following:
(THE FOLLOWING COMMUNICATION TO ME FROM MY REPRESENTATIVE
REGARDING THE ABOVE SUPREME COURT DECISION PRESS RELEASE
LAST SESSION)
>"Marc,
>We are going through the full decision to figure out what implications it
>will have to help us in the growth debate this next session. "Compensation"
>was a dirty word with the Democrats at the State House,
."
-
So why some folks merely dislike Democrats I, as a farmer,
am being actively assaulted by them as they want to use my
land for their pleasure BUT without reimbursing me. I have
no doubt Democrats will defeat the "takings" philosophy of
the Law and get their hands onto private land within the
next two years.
This is critical news for several reasons:
--The inability of a farmer to acquire essential credit
services due to unsure utilization conditions on the farm.
--The inability of a farmer to plan for the sometimes
decades long projects due to unsure utilization
availability.
--Most critical is the devastating impact on the farmer and
farm family due to the fact that the days of private
property are over!! It is land they pay taxes and a mortgage
on BUT their rights have become short term privileges
granted by a fickle and short sighted legislature. The
flight to the city and urbanization of farm land will force
socialized farming within a generation I suspect.
Even in the short few years we've lived in this area we've
seen a major irrigation ditch sell out and a third of the
farms in the valley are shutting down. Two major implement
companies are selling out at Auction and buildings being
boarded up. A large local church is shutting down as the
hundreds that used to attend have dwindled to half a dozen.
The kids want no part of it.
On our ditch abut half of the shareholders are trying to
sell to anyone for a good price take the money and run. The
Pueblo daily newspaper periodically runs little editorial
campaigns to try to convince us to not sell and protect our
heritage. It is in our best interest to sell as soon as
possible before the Democrats confiscate our water we paid
so dearly for.
Colorado has become farm hostile but not consciously. It is
due to a massive influx of primarily Californians over a
decade who have purchased massive amounts of land and water
with the incredibly large sums they could get for even a
modest house out there. Apparently California was pretty bad
so they moved here and told their friends who told their
friends who
Due to the exploding influx of immigrants water value has
skyrocketed and the answer has been to sell the water and
farm and retire in the city or move to farm friendly
country. I have visited Missouri several times but they are
having their population problems too. Texas and New Mexico
are our leading candidates at this time.
So to sum it up one may expect long term ag projects to be
unattractive.
Short term temporary and portable operations/technologies to
be emerging.
Increased farm operations in unattractive ecosystems.
Vertical multistory greenhouses sprouting up.
Portable systems such as Aquaponics can be set up in several
weeks and torn down approximately in the same time so have a
high level of attraction since they can produce a crop
within six months.
Real family farms to decline. Hobby farms will increase.
-----
You'll find the solutions and problems lie with the State
Governments. The Federal government has granted massive
relief to the small farmer via USDA inspection exemptions
and such. The feds were onto the small farm crisis in excess
of 30 years ago due to intelligent studies and took action.
The study is available in US Government Bookstores and is
amazing in its predictive accuracy and how long ago it was
published. Most state ag people never heard of it.
Most state ag departments are political animals first and ag
bully pulpits last. They are expected to inspect, regulate,
consumer protection, licensing etc., etc. Some states even
us their Aggie school to run the show. Basically farms are
dispensable and a poor stepchild.
Bottom line - select the location VERY CAREFULLY for maximum
family farm lifespan!! Some states are GREAT!
Marc Nameth
Arlos,
Mark's definition of a family farm may differ from mine,
but I see a =
family farm as a place where people who make up one
household (or =
several households in an extended family) live on land that
produces a =
marketable or consumable agricultural product with most of
the labor =
supplied by the family who lives there. Ideally the
agricultural =
production provides the family's living.
In many rural areas the countryside is almost deserted
during the =
workday. Farmland has been sold seperately from the
homesteads of the =
families who once worked the land and the new country
residents go to =
the city to make their living. But perhaps some of these
people can yet =
find ways to make a living on the small acreages that come
with their =
purchase of a farmstead. Aquaponics may be part of the
answer.
Miriam
. .
| Message 2
Subject: Re: spirulina
From: "Attie Esterhuyse"
Date: 6 Aug 2001 09:06:36 +0200
Robert
The quoted yields are per square metre, because of the CO2 requirement and
because Spirulina can only grow to a certain depth, before overshadowing becomes
a problem. You must ask Jean-Paul Jourdan (Email : jpj 'at' bsi.fr ) to send you the
condensed version of a "Manual of small scale spirulina culture" written by him.
This is an excellent hands-on guide with enough information to get you started.
I can only quote what I have read in research papers. My own set-up is still to
primitive to really do tests. All I can say is that Jean-Paul's recipe works,
and that my Spirulina survived their first winter.
My seawater test looks a bit shaky. I used a 50% seawater and 50% regular
culture medium mixture. Since the seawater is a lot more saline than my culture
water, the Spirulina went into shock straight away. This happened before when I
switched over to my current culture medium. That time the Spirulina came
through, so I hope they will do it again.
Attie
Robert Rogers wrote:
> Attie;
> Is this sq. meter, or cubic meter? I do know that large amounts
> of CO2 are required to produce large amounts of spirulina. I am not being
> argumentative, just starting to do some research.
. .
| Message 3
Subject: RE: Threat to farmer's market
From: "Mark Allen Wells"
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 04:25:01 -0500
>I thought of this list as a possible source when I read Mark's comments
about Thomas Jefferson's writings on an agrarian society.
Miriam,
I know these won't help you, but I find their truth to be timeless.
"Cultivators of the earth are the most valuable citizens. They are the most
vigorous, the most independent, the most virtuous, and they are tied to
their country and wedded to its liberty and interests by the most lasting
bonds. As long, therefore, as they can find employment in this line, I would
not convert them into mariners, artisans, or anything else." --Thomas
Jefferson to John Jay, 1785. ME 5:94, Papers 8:426
"The United States
. will be more virtuous, more free and more happy
employed in agriculture than as carriers or manufacturers. It is a truth,
and a precious one for them, if they could be persuaded of it." --Thomas
Jefferson to M. de Warville, 1786. ME 5:402
"I think our governments will remain virtuous for many centuries as long as
they are chiefly agricultural; and this will be as long as there shall be
vacant lands in any part of America. When they get piled upon one another in
large cities as in Europe, they will become corrupt as in Europe." --Thomas
Jefferson to James Madison, 1787. Papers 12:442
-
I think when Arlos asked "What is a family farm?" it was a bit of sarcastic
humor directed at a system that has caused their disappearance. My
definition would be very similar to yours. I think we are on the same page.
There are many types of farms of course
.but when "farming" became
"agribusiness" and family ownership and stewardship was replaced by
corporate ownership and it was industrialized
.it lost it's heart and
soul!
.and it's connection to the community.
I wish I could help you with your problem and I hope Arlos's suggestion may
help. One thing you
may try is doing a quick search for "community supported agriculture". Most
CSA's that have websites give contact info. Write them or call them and ask
them if they have had similar problems to overcome. You may get lucky.
best wishes!
mark
. .
| Message 4
Subject: RE: Threat to farmer's market
From: "Mark Allen Wells"
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 04:53:57 -0500
I had another thought that was keeping me awake
LOL.
Stress to the city council that farmers markets keep
community food dollars circulating WITHIN THEIR COMMUNITY and
support local agriculture rather than far off factory farms
that could care less about where the food goes as long as they
sell it. If you have time before a decision is made, you could
start a petition in the market and get the support of your
customers who want and appreciate the market as a source
of fresh, wholesome food for their families.
ok
.I think I can sleep now.
mark
. .
| Message 5
Subject: Re: Gone Fission or Uranium in My Granite Sand Makes My Grow Beds Glow!!
From: "Dorothy Mann"
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 06:44:41 -0500
Hi-
I read somewhere that what is taxed is discouraged, what is subsidized is
encouraged. It would be good for everyone if the country encouraged good
things.
Becky Hines
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Allen Wells"
Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2001 12:42 PM
Subject: RE: Gone Fission or Uranium in My Granite Sand Makes My Grow Beds
Glow!!
> I am proudly an independent farmer, you should give a definition of a
> farmer, you would be amazed the many hats one wears, farming is a chosen
> way of life, a working religion
.I do not need tax breaks nor the
> government to assist in my generating energy for my farm use.> -
>
> Gerry,
>
> I agree with what you say to a degree. Farming is my heritage.
> I am very independent also and I work hard towards creating
> my dream. My work would go much farther if our government wasn't
> taking nearly 1/3 of what I make every year! That tax break is the
> people's money
.how can giving me my own money back be considered
> socialist? I am much better steward of my money and land than the
> government is. I have watched many many family farms sold off here
> in Indiana and elsewhere because of the enormous debt and low profit
> system we have created. Energy costs are one the largest drains on
> farmers. If I had a farm on a windy hill and wanted to erect a 20KW
> wind system here in Indiana (with my own money), any surplus I generate
> is DONATED back to the utility which they sell at a huge profit
> it cost them nothing
that my friend is B---S---. If the net metering
> laws were changed, the system would pay for itself by selling the surplus.
> Is there any wonder there is no incentive to do it?
>
> While you may not need help, there are many who do. I would rather
> give my tax dollars to a struggling farmer than power companies and Uncle
> Sam
> (he isn't very good at spending it). Our current system is badly broken.
> If farmers were growing the fuel for our cars (which they want to do and
> are in Brazil) oil would no longer be used to manipulate and draw us into
> wars. If farmers could grow industrial hemp again (as they are in Canada,
> Australia, Germany etc) they would have another VERY valuable crop. If
> these things could happen, there would be no need for subsidizing farms.> they could stand on their own much easier. These things are NOT happening
> because of our government. George Washington Carver developed 100's of
> industrial uses for the peanut alone. Hemp is the most versatile plant on
> the planet and played a huge role in the farms and industries of yesterday
>
but you are an outlaw if you grow it in the U S of A. Take a look at
> what happened to the Oglala Sioux when they tried to grow hemp on
> their reservation as part of sustainable housing program
They didn't
> just seize the plants, they swarmed on the place in riot gear with M-16's
> in the usual strong arm fashion.
> http://www.grassrootsnaturalgoods.com/hemp_news/
>
> We chose a petrol-chemical path and set up a system to protect it. I don't
> expect the fed to fix everything or want them too
.but I do want them off
> my back and expect them to use MY money for good.
>
> time to feed my fish.> Mark
>
. .
| Message 6
Subject: Re: Gone Fission or Uranium in My Granite Sand Makes My Grow Beds Glow!!
From: "gerry magnuson"
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 01:43:07 -1000
wait until the sin taxes include all sugared and fat products, items that
cause more health hazards than booze and cigs
.as you put on your seatbelt,
another of your freedom's has be compromised, government is now your common
sense.
>From: "Dorothy Mann"
>Reply-To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
>
>Subject: Re: Gone Fission or Uranium in My Granite Sand Makes My Grow Beds
>Glow!!
>Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 06:44:41 -0500
>
>Hi-
>
>I read somewhere that what is taxed is discouraged, what is subsidized is
>encouraged. It would be good for everyone if the country encouraged good
>things.
>
>Becky Hines
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Mark Allen Wells"
>
>Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2001 12:42 PM
>Subject: RE: Gone Fission or Uranium in My Granite Sand Makes My Grow Beds
>Glow!!
>
>
> > I am proudly an independent farmer, you should give a definition of a
> > farmer, you would be amazed the many hats one wears, farming is a chosen
> > way of life, a working religion
.I do not need tax breaks nor the
> > government to assist in my generating energy for my farm use.> > -
> >
> > Gerry,
> >
> > I agree with what you say to a degree. Farming is my heritage.
> > I am very independent also and I work hard towards creating
> > my dream. My work would go much farther if our government wasn't
> > taking nearly 1/3 of what I make every year! That tax break is the
> > people's money
.how can giving me my own money back be considered
> > socialist? I am much better steward of my money and land than the
> > government is. I have watched many many family farms sold off here
> > in Indiana and elsewhere because of the enormous debt and low profit
> > system we have created. Energy costs are one the largest drains on
> > farmers. If I had a farm on a windy hill and wanted to erect a 20KW
> > wind system here in Indiana (with my own money), any surplus I generate
> > is DONATED back to the utility which they sell at a huge profit
> > it cost them nothing
that my friend is B---S---. If the net metering
> > laws were changed, the system would pay for itself by selling the
>surplus.
> > Is there any wonder there is no incentive to do it?
> >
> > While you may not need help, there are many who do. I would rather
> > give my tax dollars to a struggling farmer than power companies and
>Uncle
> > Sam
> > (he isn't very good at spending it). Our current system is badly
>broken.
> > If farmers were growing the fuel for our cars (which they want to do and
> > are in Brazil) oil would no longer be used to manipulate and draw us
>into
> > wars. If farmers could grow industrial hemp again (as they are in
>Canada,
> > Australia, Germany etc) they would have another VERY valuable crop. If
> > these things could happen, there would be no need for subsidizing
>farms.> > they could stand on their own much easier. These things are NOT
>happening
> > because of our government. George Washington Carver developed 100's of
> > industrial uses for the peanut alone. Hemp is the most versatile plant
>on
> > the planet and played a huge role in the farms and industries of
>yesterday
> >
but you are an outlaw if you grow it in the U S of A. Take a look at
> > what happened to the Oglala Sioux when they tried to grow hemp on
> > their reservation as part of sustainable housing program
They didn't
> > just seize the plants, they swarmed on the place in riot gear with
>M-16's
> > in the usual strong arm fashion.
> > http://www.grassrootsnaturalgoods.com/hemp_news/
> >
> > We chose a petrol-chemical path and set up a system to protect it. I
>don't
> > expect the fed to fix everything or want them too
.but I do want them
>off
> > my back and expect them to use MY money for good.
> >
> > time to feed my fish.> > Mark
> >
>
. .
| Message 7
Subject: nukes and such .From: Ray Schneider
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 08:04:57 -0400
I suppose if development of nuclear reactors had not be stalled in the dark ages by
governmental
regulations, controls, restrictions, and just plain bad management, we'd already have safe and
clean
reactors. One of the interesting approaches to making safer reactors is the concept of hot
pebbles --
these are sheathed, self shielding spheres which are hot thermally due to radioactivity, but
which
don't give off radiation so are "safe" (but thermally hot). Interesting and relatively new
concept, I
suspect it is really older than folks are giving it credit for however.
The mythology that radioactivity is particularly dangerous as measured against other things is
mostly a
myth. Some things are dangerous all the time -- and therefore have half lives of eternity.
The
hazardous chemical generation in Bophal India killed more people than all the nuclear reactors
in all
the world have killed since their introduction, including Chernobel -- which BTW was not the
huge death
toll commonly bandied about in the papers. I think that actual confirmed death toll is about
74 --
bad, but not the cast of thousands usually claimed.
The use of hazardous materials is always dangerous and ought to be carefully designed and
controlled.
But nuclear has tremendous advantages and actually has a safer history than any other form of
large
scale power generation once you cut through the mythology to the truth.
I used to have a high energy physicist working for me who would quip that he'd love to have
some
nuclear waste in his backyard -- he'd dig a containment vessel for it, put in a heat exchanger,
and
have free hot water forever.
Cheers, Ray
--
Ray Schneider
On the Search for the PERFECT tomato.
Come See Me at:
http://www.user.shentel.net/rschneid
. .
| Message 8
Subject: Re: nukes and such .From: "gerry magnuson"
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 03:00:33 -1000
ray, the fear-factor has been introduced for the unknown about nuclear
reactors
.the ones built by russians had 'cost accountants' involved, very
shoddy
.one can make the comparison just with their use of bricks on
buildings, verses what one sees in virginia, matter of pride and
workmanship, as I make frequent trips to russia, the educted people are
really educated, just no method yet to get ahead or try something on their
own, doctors get paid 50 dollars a month in the cities, and country doctors
get 30
.communism still exists there
.russia is planning on making mobile
reactors for the siberia region, would not be surprised as to how many
people have died the past few years due to no food nor heat souces in the
frozen tundra, some areas only have a 2 week summer for the supply ships to
enter, and when that's not possible
.russia would be a lawyers' dream for
lawsuits
.cowboy
>From: Ray Schneider
>Reply-To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
>To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
>Subject: nukes and such .>Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 08:04:57 -0400
>
>I suppose if development of nuclear reactors had not be stalled in the dark
>ages by governmental
>regulations, controls, restrictions, and just plain bad management, we'd
>already have safe and clean
>reactors. One of the interesting approaches to making safer reactors is
>the concept of hot pebbles --
>these are sheathed, self shielding spheres which are hot thermally due to
>radioactivity, but which
>don't give off radiation so are "safe" (but thermally hot). Interesting
>and relatively new concept, I
>suspect it is really older than folks are giving it credit for however.
>
>The mythology that radioactivity is particularly dangerous as measured
>against other things is mostly a
>myth. Some things are dangerous all the time -- and therefore have half
>lives of eternity. The
>hazardous chemical generation in Bophal India killed more people than all
>the nuclear reactors in all
>the world have killed since their introduction, including Chernobel --
>which BTW was not the huge death
>toll commonly bandied about in the papers. I think that actual confirmed
>death toll is about 74 --
>bad, but not the cast of thousands usually claimed.
>
>The use of hazardous materials is always dangerous and ought to be
>carefully designed and controlled.
>But nuclear has tremendous advantages and actually has a safer history than
>any other form of large
>scale power generation once you cut through the mythology to the truth.
>
>I used to have a high energy physicist working for me who would quip that
>he'd love to have some
>nuclear waste in his backyard -- he'd dig a containment vessel for it, put
>in a heat exchanger, and
>have free hot water forever.
>
>Cheers, Ray
>--
>Ray Schneider
>
>On the Search for the PERFECT tomato.
>Come See Me at:
>http://www.user.shentel.net/rschneid
>
>
. .
| Message 9
Subject: Re: Bush the threat to farmer's markets
From: (Bruce Schreiber)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 08:30:07 -0500 (CDT)
Gerry I couldn't care less what party a mans from because in the US
there is only one viable party just made to look like two but the same
money controls them both Clinton was a classic republican and Reagan was
a classic Democrat. In general only the most bought and payed for make
it in to office and than they have to squeeze very profitable payments
out of the country to reimburse their paying constituents. They allow
closures of key processing plants ,Oil refineries, Grain silos,Slaughter
houses , Cheese processors to control prices payed out to the farmers,
Fisherman and ranchers on one side saying that there is to much supply
and lowering the cost payed out while on the other side they don't lower
the retail prices to the consumer one red cent. If you are in truth a
farmer than you should remember that 200lb. hogs were selling for the
price of a can ham not to long ago .Here in Wisconsin in the best milk
country of the US most dairies are out of business with the rest going
out soon and its because of the milk is priced to low so the cows are
sold off for hamburger where I come in. Its all turning into a big shell
game
Why can I have my own Sockeye salmon Filited ,processed and shipped all
USDA inspected to Wisconsin from Naknik AK at a total product cost per
pound at $2.10 US DELIVERED when It sells at $21 to $30 lb in some
markets ?????? Now keep in mind that I was only being payed 0.65 cents
a lb. at the processors for my 100,000 lbs. or so each year.I shipped
2,000lbs as a test and sold them out at $6.99lb. to old folks that
remembered it from childhood
Bush is the village fool and he cant hide it if he opens his
mouth. At night I listen to the BBC and all through Europe thats how he
is known now. Just imagine him forgiving Germany for the bombing of
Pearl Harbor boy he showed great form on that one thats classic STUPID
.Next he will forgive the Israelis for Dacow and ask the germans to
forgive them to
Bruce
. .
| Message 10
Subject: Re: nukes and such .From: (Bruce Schreiber)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 08:40:51 -0500 (CDT)
Most folks don't know that the sun and the Earth are heated by nuclear
internal combustion we don't get enough heat from the sun to keep the
earth warmed up past Zero our heat source is from the inside the farther
down a shaft you go the higher the temps you record.
Bruce
. .
| Message 11
Subject: Enough already!
From: "Pete and Diana Scholtens"
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 08:39:54 -0700
Hi all,
I just checked my email from yesterday (Sunday) and noted that out of 28
messages, NOT one was about aquaponics. Very impressive. I just have one
thing to say.
STOP GLOBAL WHINING!
Pete Scholtens
Langley, BC
. .
| Message 12
Subject: Re: nukes and such
From: "Mark Allen Wells"
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 10:56:02 -0500
Ray,
I realize the sun is a nuclear reactor we could not live without.
I realize nuclear energy has a few virtues.
But my point is it also has an inherent risk associated with it
that cannot be denied. A Chinese missile attack on a wind farm
would just leave you without power and destroyed turbines. An
attack on nuclear reactor could leave you with a disaster
affecting millions for decades.
Wind, solar and hydrogen technologies do not leave you with a waste
that must be contained in underground mines forever. That waste
also has an inherent danger
we aren't talking about the low
level exposure we get every day that some are paranoid about. We
are talking about highly toxic waste. Personally I prefer energy
that doesn't generate it.
just my opinion,
mark
. .
| Message 13
Subject: RE: Enough already!
From: "Mark Allen Wells"
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 11:04:05 -0500
My apologies Pete,
I considered it more of a discussion than whining but I respect
your position and will drop my part of it. For me, many things
are not directly but indirectly associated with aquaponics and every
form of agriculture. That includes legislation, energy, etc
I'll
try to stay more focused.
mark
Hi all,
I just checked my email from yesterday (Sunday) and noted that out of 28
messages, NOT one was about aquaponics. Very impressive. I just have one
thing to say.
STOP GLOBAL WHINING!
Pete Scholtens
Langley, BC
. .
| Message 14
Subject: Re: nukes and such .From: "Barry Thomas"
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 18:20:00 +0100
Ray,
>.> The hazardous chemical generation in Bophal India killed more
> people than all the nuclear reactors in all the world have killed since
> their introduction, including Chernobel -- which BTW was not the huge
> death toll commonly bandied about in the papers. I think that actual
> confirmed death toll is about 74 -- bad, but not the cast of thousands
> usually claimed.
I agree that there is a lot of hype but there's also a lot of "anti-hype"
which can be just as bad. "Confirmed death toll of X", for instance, implies
that X people were killed and that's an end of it. However, all it's
actually giving (in this case) is the number of people whose death has so
far been _proved_ to be a direct result of the accident - a different thing
altogether IMO.
There were a few other bad effects and general costs involved as well of
course. This:
www.un.org/documents/ga/docs/50/plenary/a50-418.htm
report from the UN mentions some of them.
Here's another, from the Nuclear Energy Agency (definate lack of hype).
Chap. 6 (Agrcultural and Environmental Impacts) and esp chapter 7 (Potential
Residual Risks) raise some interesting points.
http://www.nea.fr/html/rp/chernobyl/c06.html
http://www.nea.fr/html/rp/chernobyl/c07.html
Accidents aside, there are also big problems with waste "disposal",
mentioned earlier.
I'm not actually against nuclear power as such, but think that there are
still too many unresolved problems and unknowns to make the idea of building
lots more of them particularly attractive. Allowing decisions taken about
research and implementation of such systems to driven by either market
forces or politicians is just insane.
Barry
(Wales, UK)
. .
| Message 15
Subject: Help needed on some research questions
From: "bennett"
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 13:45:52 -0400
Hello all,
I am writing a paper to be a forerunner to a loan and/or grant proposal
for an aquaponics set-up. I heard of this opportunity just 2 1/2 weeks
before the deadline for completion. Could you all help me out a bit by
providing some helpful answers? Here goes:
* Arlos mentioned "the largest change in career (over 50 group) in the
US is towards horticulture". I would like to know where that statement
might "officially" have been made. Or, rather, what study or proof exists
to that effect. (Need the bibliographical reference.)
* Where can the following statement (or something similar) be "proven"
or is documented for bibliographical reference: The rural
workforce/population (over 50??) is aging faster than any other geographical
group. "Rural" in this case to mean any other than "big city metro".:-)
Need numbers, percentages, etc. etc.
* Where can I find the numbers (on the Internet) that show a shift of
land from small farm use to either non-farm use or large scale agribusiness
use?
* Where can I find numbers, graphs, etc. (on the Internet) that show
rising fuel prices in a way that might effect farmers or "under-glass
greenhouse" growers?
Please accept, in advance, my hearty thank yous. If you really like doing
this sort of investigative work, I've got lots more questions and answers
that I need to document sources for in the next two or three days!
D.
. .
| Message 16
Subject: RE: Help needed on some research questions
From: "Mark Allen Wells"
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 12:53:33 -0500
Bennet,
you may try starting here for help
Appropriate Technology Transfer for Rural Areas (ATTRA)
PO Box 3657
Fayetteville, AR 72702
Phone: 1-800-346-9140 --- FAX: (501) 442-9842
http://www.attra.org
they are a great resource
.I will do some more looking tonight.
good luck!
mark
. .
| Message 17
Subject: Re: Enough already!
From: kris book
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 12:27:19 -0600
Mark,
This same sort of complaint has been going on the whole year that I have
been around. While I can find no fault with the off-topic complaints,
this list always goes on just the way it is. I also find no fault with
the main contributors kicking up their heels a little. The one thing that
I do feel is wrong is, the lurkers out there that expect to get answers
to unasked questions. There is rarely any, even half intelligent
questions that go unanswered.
I have learned to watch the subject line and if I read one post that
doesn't interest me, then I delete the rest of the posts with the same
subject line. Unless, people like Ted, Mike, Bruce, Arlos, etc. get paid
for their expert advice, I think it's a pretty good trade off to allow
them a little fun, since thinking is obviously their forte, how can they
stop the wheels from turning. You are one of the newer members that has
realized what is really going on here. Please just keep on keepin' on,
you will not hurt this list with your great insights. You could however,
hurt the list if you put a governor on your engine.
This aquaponics stuff is about closed eco-systems and just about
everything you write about is of some concern to each of us. I mean, how
many times can the newbie questions get answered. The people answering
the questions need something in return for all the good energy they spend
here.
My wife and I love you, man!
kris
. .
| Message 18
Subject: Re: Help needed on some research questions
From: kris book
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 12:33:49 -0600
Steve Diver at ATTRA is very helpful. He sent me a manila envelope full
of printed literature that covers most everything on their extensive web
site. He also monitors this list. Hi Steve and if I forgot to write you a
thank you note, please accept this instead. So just let him know what
your specific interests are.
kris
. .
| Message 19
Subject: Steve Diver -- was Re: Help needed on some research questions
From: "bennett"
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 15:03:39 -0400
Thank you so much, Kris. But I can't find Steve Diver's e-mail address on
the ATTRA site. As a matter of fact, I can't find ANY e-addresses, except
that of the webmaster, on the ATTRA site!
D.
where D. is getting to be for Desparate!
>Steve Diver at ATTRA is very helpful. He sent me a manila envelope full
>of printed literature that covers most everything on their extensive web
>site. He also monitors this list. Hi Steve and if I forgot to write you a
>thank you note, please accept this instead. So just let him know what
>your specific interests are.
>
>kris
>
. .
| Message 20
Subject: Steve Diver -- was Re: Help needed on some research questions
From: "bennett"
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 15:03:39 -0400
Thank you so much, Kris. But I can't find Steve Diver's e-mail address on
the ATTRA site. As a matter of fact, I can't find ANY e-addresses, except
that of the webmaster, on the ATTRA site!
D.
where D. is getting to be for Desparate!
>Steve Diver at ATTRA is very helpful. He sent me a manila envelope full
>of printed literature that covers most everything on their extensive web
>site. He also monitors this list. Hi Steve and if I forgot to write you a
>thank you note, please accept this instead. So just let him know what
>your specific interests are.
>
>kris
>
. .
| Message 21
Subject: Re: Bush the threat to farmer's markets
From: "Lloyd R. Prentice"
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 16:31:24 -0400
Hello,
Bruce Schreiber wrote:
> Bush is the village fool and he cant hide it if he opens his
> mouth. At night I listen to the BBC and all through Europe thats how he
> is known now. Just imagine him forgiving Germany for the bombing of
> Pearl Harbor boy he showed great form on that one thats classic STUPID
> .Next he will forgive the Israelis for Dacow and ask the germans to
> forgive them to
Anyone happen to notice that the treasury department went out to the
financial markets last week to borrow money to pay for Bush's tax cut?
Best wishes,
Lloyd Prentice
>
> Bruce
. .
| Message 22
Subject: Re: Bush the threat to farmer's markets
From: Andrei Calciu
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 16:35:13 -0400
The Treasury Department regularly goes to the financial markets. It is not
just to pick up a few quick bucks to cover an expense or another, it is a
major regulatory scheme. By how much Uncle Sam puts out in T-note, bills,
etc. affects in a large measure the liquidity of the market, prices,
interest rates (even more than the Fed moves do). Just ask any real
economist (not these snot nosed kids fresh out of college who know only to
calculate stock option values for e-commerce companies with no sales and no
profits).
-_______________
Andrei D. Calciu (VA-4270)
NEC America, Inc.
14040 Park Center Dr.
Herndon, VA 20171-3227
Voice: 703-834-4273
Fax: 703-787-6613
This message and any attachment are confidential. If you are not the
intended recipient, please telephone or email the sender and delete the
message and any attachment from your system. If you are not the intended
recipient you must not copy this message or attachment or disclose the
contents to any other person.
Anyone happen to notice that the treasury department went out to the
financial markets last week to borrow money to pay for Bush's tax cut?
Best wishes,
Lloyd Prentice
. .
| Message 23
Subject: Re: Bush the threat to farmer's markets
From: "KenHale"
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 15:45:30 -0500
what does this have to do with aquaponics?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lloyd R. Prentice"
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 3:31 PM
Subject: Re: Bush the threat to farmer's markets
> Hello,
>
> Bruce Schreiber wrote:
>
> > Bush is the village fool and he cant hide it if he opens his
> > mouth. At night I listen to the BBC and all through Europe thats how he
> > is known now. Just imagine him forgiving Germany for the bombing of
> > Pearl Harbor boy he showed great form on that one thats classic STUPID
> > .Next he will forgive the Israelis for Dacow and ask the germans to
> > forgive them to
>
> Anyone happen to notice that the treasury department went out to the
> financial markets last week to borrow money to pay for Bush's tax cut?
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Lloyd Prentice
>
>
>
>
> >
> > Bruce
>
>
. .
| Message 24
Subject: Re: Aquaponics Subject: Family farm definition
From: marc
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 15:13:53 -0600
Regarding small farm issues Miriam I want to offer a great
web site involved with the various aspects of the Colorado
farm crisis from the Governors office of Colorado. It covers
the abbreviated things I spoke of in much greater detail
than I can and with more sides of the issues represented
than from my farmers perspective.
You'll note it is on the MAIN page of the Colorado State
Government web site so that in itself indicates the crisis
importance in this former agricultural state.
http://www.state.co.us/
It is the last item under "Governor's Office:"
and is titled:
"Commission on
Saving Open
Spaces, Farms
and Ranches"
Simply click on it and a PDF file will be started.
It may take a few minutes but it is a well done web page and
is quite illustrative of the small farmers issues you
expressed an interest in.
Additionally you may be interested to know a few other
factoids that occur when State Government does not have
agriculture as a priority. One of the most telling is that
at the Colorado State Fair since I was a 12 year old there
has been a large building called the "Palace of Agriculture"
Every year virtually all the counties of this state were
represented in booths and with the fruits of that county.
Giant Pumkins and squash - essentially what is seen at fairs
out of an ag magazine.
During the last decade County participation diminished until
you will see - NOT ONE - county represented in the
building. The closest thing to
Agriculture was a herb seller and a teeny State Ag booth
with the local egg inspector and his egg candler machine.
His partner was a food inspector from Colorado Springs - a
militant Lesbian Activist who was confronting visitors to
the booth as to whether they did or did not attend or March
in the Pueblo Gay Rights parade. The egg guy was
enthusiastic about his job and tried to talk Ag but his
combative partner was quite the turn-off with her off topic
activism. Many folks simply gave up and walked off - us
included.
I am not making this up or embellishing it in any way. You
can ask my wife Marcy as she was there. People were
dumbfoundedly staring at this person and her over aggressive
off topic agendizing.
The entire rest of the several acre site was full of various
craft, pot and pans, stain remover, miracle welding rod, tee
shirts and
such vendors. Absolutely NO Agriculture was represented by
any party - government or private except for those two
booths I previously mentioned.
The various Counties have had to go to bat for their ag
efforts. There is a revival of County fairs such as we have
here in Otero County that are jam packed with aggies and
aggie wanna-be's.
Several of the Counties had County Commissioners have to
restrict the importation of prairie dogs from the Animal
Rights Activist Wacko's from Boulder. These little members
of the squirrel family will devastate a farm in a matter of
a couple of months. The Governor had to step in and support
the Counties in restricting of these prairie locusts
relocation by these people ignorant of agricultural issues.
The extreme level of non agrarian ignorance has given rise
to what Captain Liddel Hart once termed as "the arrogance of
ignorance". In other words the non agrarian have been active
promulgating philosophies lethal to agrarian health due to
the typical arrogance of control oriented people who
initiate control based on egocentric
criteria, or extremism, rather than a balanced consensus of
folks oriented
for a healthy integrated society.
The post I referred to a bit earlier in this post on the
Governors web age I feel is intended to foster the good
consensus. I must compliment Gov. Owens as his leadership is
what fostered this balanced approach. I hope it continues in
maturity and common sense and not jump that track.
Aquaponics seems to be resistant to most of the previous
things I have mentioned. It seems the primary problems with
Aquaponics are zoning, vandalism, electricity outages, water
availability, heat and market availability.
Mass quantities of land seem to not be necesary.
Marc Nameth
. .
| Message 25
Subject: Re: Bush the threat to farmer's markets
From: "Brent Bingham"
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 14:40:07 -0700
I disagree with Mr. Schreiber! Further, is this the place for political
opinions, even if you did have any facts to back them up, (which I did not
see) ?
----- Original Message -----
From: "KenHale"
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 1:45 PM
Subject: Re: Bush the threat to farmer's markets
> what does this have to do with aquaponics?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lloyd R. Prentice"
>
> Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 3:31 PM
> Subject: Re: Bush the threat to farmer's markets
>
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > Bruce Schreiber wrote:
> >
> > > Bush is the village fool and he cant hide it if he opens his
> > > mouth. At night I listen to the BBC and all through Europe thats how
he
> > > is known now. Just imagine him forgiving Germany for the bombing of
> > > Pearl Harbor boy he showed great form on that one thats classic STUPID
> > > .Next he will forgive the Israelis for Dacow and ask the germans to
> > > forgive them to
> >
> > Anyone happen to notice that the treasury department went out to the
> > financial markets last week to borrow money to pay for Bush's tax cut?
> >
> > Best wishes,
> >
> > Lloyd Prentice
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Bruce
> >
> >
>
>
. .
| Message 26
Subject: Re: Bush the threat to farmer's markets
From: "Brent Bingham"
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 14:48:15 -0700
Yes and look at how much debt; has, is and will be retired this year alone !
Brent
----- Original Message -----
From:
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 1:35 PM
Subject: Re: Bush the threat to farmer's markets
>
> The Treasury Department regularly goes to the financial markets. It is not
> just to pick up a few quick bucks to cover an expense or another, it is a
> major regulatory scheme. By how much Uncle Sam puts out in T-note, bills,
> etc. affects in a large measure the liquidity of the market, prices,
> interest rates (even more than the Fed moves do). Just ask any real
> economist (not these snot nosed kids fresh out of college who know only to
> calculate stock option values for e-commerce companies with no sales and
no
> profits).
>
> -_______________
> Andrei D. Calciu (VA-4270)
> NEC America, Inc.
> 14040 Park Center Dr.
> Herndon, VA 20171-3227
>
> Voice: 703-834-4273
> Fax: 703-787-6613
>
> This message and any attachment are confidential. If you are not the
> intended recipient, please telephone or email the sender and delete the
> message and any attachment from your system. If you are not the intended
> recipient you must not copy this message or attachment or disclose the
> contents to any other person.
>
>
>
>
> Anyone happen to notice that the treasury department went out to the
> financial markets last week to borrow money to pay for Bush's tax cut?
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Lloyd Prentice
>
>
>
. .
| Message 27
Subject: Re: Steve Diver -- was Re: Help needed on some research questions
From: kris book
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 16:14:43 -0600
This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
----__JNP_000_78d7.37c6.17c3
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Dear Desparate,
Steve is not an electronic personality, he has hands to answer the phone
with and lips to speak.LOL! If you go back to Mark's post, just before
mine, you'll see the 800 # that he left for you. I just had a wild
thought, that maybe you never got Mark's post, in which case you won't
think this is one bit funny. (800) 346-9140
By the way, how would how would you really like to be addressed, bennett,
D., Desperate, or what? I think, I remember some posts where you signed
off with your name but, I really can't remember for sure. Ever since I
was in the Nam, I haven't been able to trust my memory, or maybe it was
the 18 wheeler full of eggs that I flipped going 75mph.
kris
----__JNP_000_78d7.37c6.17c3
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear Desparate,
Steve is not an electronic personality, he has hands to answer the =
phone=20
with and lips to speak.LOL! If you go back to Mark's post, just before mine=
,=20
you'll see the 800 # that he left for you. I just had a wild thought, that =
maybe=20
you never got Mark's post, in which case you won't think this is one bit =
funny.=20
(800) 346-9140
By the way, how would how would you really like to be =
addressed,=20
bennett, D., Desperate, or what? I think, I remember some posts where you =
signed=20
off with your name but, I really can't remember for sure. Ever since I was =
in=20
the Nam, I haven't been able to trust my memory, or maybe it was the 18 =
wheeler=20
full of eggs that I flipped going 75mph.
kris
----__JNP_000_78d7.37c6.17c3--
. .
| Message 28
Subject: Re: nukes and such
From: "Brent Bingham"
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 15:20:23 -0700
Mark do you really think the Chinese would use a conventional warhead on any
missile sent our way? I think not! Take all the USA style Nuclear Plants
and add up all the Deaths and accidents and correlate it to the power
produced. Do the same for Coal Fired Plants. If you can, factor in acid
rain, Greenhouse gas emissions,deaths due to plant steam accidents,ozone
depletion, ash disposal, water and air pollution from the cooling water in
the stacks to remove sulfur etc. etc. etc. and you get 50 % more power per
unit of known pollution and deaths. The risk is relative. I spent 15 years
working in and around the Nevada Test site. There are hundreds of miles of
tunnels to store the waste. The site is already hot from years of
tests.There is almost NO rain and almost NO ground water.Our future is not
in Coal and gas. France is already 80% powered by Nuclear Reactors and Japan
is catching up fast.
There is something wrong with the picture you are painting is seems to be
leaning to far left.
Brent
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Allen Wells"
To: "Aquaponics"
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 8:56 AM
Subject: Re: nukes and such
> Ray,
>
> I realize the sun is a nuclear reactor we could not live without.
> I realize nuclear energy has a few virtues.
>
> But my point is it also has an inherent risk associated with it
> that cannot be denied. A Chinese missile attack on a wind farm
> would just leave you without power and destroyed turbines. An
> attack on nuclear reactor could leave you with a disaster
> affecting millions for decades.
>
> Wind, solar and hydrogen technologies do not leave you with a waste
> that must be contained in underground mines forever. That waste
> also has an inherent danger
we aren't talking about the low
> level exposure we get every day that some are paranoid about. We
> are talking about highly toxic waste. Personally I prefer energy
> that doesn't generate it.
>
> just my opinion,
> mark
>
. .
| Message 29
Subject: Address issues -slightly OT
From: "gutierrez-lagatta"
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 17:35:13 -0500
Kris asked," By the way, how would how would you really like to be
addressed, bennett,
> D., Desperate, or what?" I know that I find it disconcerting when
the gender of the writer is not obvious. Initially I couldn't care
less, but if somebody plans to hang around and interact with the group
a better definition of the person would be nice. (For those who
wonder
. Kris is a "guy" :>))
I think, I remember some posts where you signed
> off with your name but, I really can't remember for sure.
Adriana
. .
| Message 30
Subject: Religion, politics, and women
From: Peggy & Emmett
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 18:44:44 -0400
To me this list is family and friends. I come to it to visit. To share in
something we have in common. Years ago, as a very young man, I was told
that to get ahead and not make enemies there were three things I should
never discuss: Religion, politics, and women. I was told that if I
discussed any of these I was certain to anger someone. As I rose in a
major corporation, I watched others lose out to promotions because they
were not aware of this little rule. With my last very successful company,
I saw competitors fail because they were not aware of this little rule. I
believe we should follow this rule. "Bush the threat to farmers markets";
obviously politics lead to divisiveness. Better subjects are maggots, red
claw, yaks, and yurts. Maybe even with a few bull sharks and some of Ted's
wonderful meanderings thrown in.
.Emmett
At 02:40 PM 8/6/2001 -0700, you wrote:
>I disagree with Mr. Schreiber! Further, is this the place for political
>opinions, even if you did have any facts to back them up, (which I did not
>see) ?
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "KenHale"
>
>Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 1:45 PM
>Subject: Re: Bush the threat to farmer's markets
>
>
>> what does this have to do with aquaponics?
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Lloyd R. Prentice"
>>
>> Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 3:31 PM
>> Subject: Re: Bush the threat to farmer's markets
>>
>>
>> > Hello,
>> >
>> > Bruce Schreiber wrote:
>> >
>> > > Bush is the village fool and he cant hide it if he opens his
>> > > mouth. At night I listen to the BBC and all through Europe thats how
>he
>> > > is known now. Just imagine him forgiving Germany for the bombing of
>> > > Pearl Harbor boy he showed great form on that one thats classic STUPID
>> > > .Next he will forgive the Israelis for Dacow and ask the germans to
>> > > forgive them to
>> >
>> > Anyone happen to notice that the treasury department went out to the
>> > financial markets last week to borrow money to pay for Bush's tax cut?
>> >
>> > Best wishes,
>> >
>> > Lloyd Prentice
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > >
>> > > Bruce
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
. .
| Message 31
Subject: Re: spirulina
From: "Robert Rogers"
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 19:45:19 -0400
Attie,
Thank you
----- Original Message -----
From: "Attie Esterhuyse"
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 3:06 AM
Subject: Re: spirulina
>
> Robert
>
> The quoted yields are per square metre, because of the CO2 requirement and
> because Spirulina can only grow to a certain depth, before overshadowing
becomes
> a problem. You must ask Jean-Paul Jourdan (Email : jpj 'at' bsi.fr ) to send
you the
> condensed version of a "Manual of small scale spirulina culture" written
by him.
> This is an excellent hands-on guide with enough information to get you
started.
>
> I can only quote what I have read in research papers. My own set-up is
still to
> primitive to really do tests. All I can say is that Jean-Paul's recipe
works,
> and that my Spirulina survived their first winter.
>
> My seawater test looks a bit shaky. I used a 50% seawater and 50% regular
> culture medium mixture. Since the seawater is a lot more saline than my
culture
> water, the Spirulina went into shock straight away. This happened before
when I
> switched over to my current culture medium. That time the Spirulina came
> through, so I hope they will do it again.
>
> Attie
>
>
> Robert Rogers wrote:
>
> > Attie;
> > Is this sq. meter, or cubic meter? I do know that large
amounts
> > of CO2 are required to produce large amounts of spirulina. I am not
being
> > argumentative, just starting to do some research.
>
. .
| Message 32
Subject: Trop. Storm Barry
From: "Jay Myers"
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 20:16:05 -0500
Just to let you know the aquaponic / hydroponic greenhouse at Panama City
Beach, Fl. still stands, but is a bit underwater. The fish tank has floated
up, but lettuce lake and the other crops are pretty much in tact.
Did I mention Nuclear power?
Jay
. .
| Message 33
Subject: Re: Trop. Storm Barry
From: kris book
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 20:05:43 -0600
Hey Jay,
Do you need some help moving to Idaho? I don't believe you'll see the
word, tropical very often when you get there.
k
n Mon, 6 Aug 2001 20:16:05 -0500 "Jay Myers"
writes:
> Just to let you know the aquaponic / hydroponic greenhouse at Panama
> City
> Beach, Fl. still stands, but is a bit underwater. The fish tank has
> floated
> up, but lettuce lake and the other crops are pretty much in tact.
>
> Did I mention Nuclear power?
> Jay
>
>
. .
| Message 34
Subject: Gone Fission, etc.
From: "TGTX"
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 21:07:53 -0500
Subject: Re: Gone Fission or Uranium in My Granite Sand Makes My Grow Beds
Glow!!
From: "Barry Thomas"
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 06:10:53 +0100
>Yes, thanks Ted. Glad to hear this is all just more fiction - for a moment
I
>thought you might actually be cheerleading the plan to build all those
extra
>reactors across the US.
All just more fiction, eh, old chap? May I ask just what parts of my cartoon
recount of the absurdities that we happen to find around us, in saturation,
struck you as fictional? Truth is stranger than fiction
.in buckets
as
they say.
This interlude to remind all our gentle readers
denial is not a River in
Egypt.
>One of the reasons I find this idea so scary
.
And what idea is that, Sir Barry?
Sorry to hear about the nerves, Barry
wish I could help successfully
portray the whole thing in context of relative risk, as I see it in my
limited vision and experience, but I am too feeble in mental skill,
literacy, and command of the Mother Tongue, obviously, since my slapstick
deliverance of the rather chilling facts is taken
.apriori
as fiction.
Seems I've been categorized, and in that, castaway.
But since we are sharing angst, I will say that something that makes me
pause to think a bit, and makes me more than a little nervous, since we are,
after all, sharing here and feeling each other's pain, is that many
incredibly compassionate and otherwise intelligent energetic folks that
desparately need to find a cause are worried sick about the equivalent of 3
mrems, balls of string, and ceiling wax, while what we really have looming
on the horizon is the notion of 6 billion diseased, starving people freezing
in the darkness
darkness of every imaginable kind.
As a consquence, I have
.we have
little time to waste worrying about
granite dust, peanut butter, high altitude airplane flights, or the
polynuclear aromatic hydrocarbons deposited on my occassional BBQ'd steak.
Instead, let's learn to grow some fish and plants for food and fiber in
greenhouses.
Cheerio!
Pioneer Ted
. .
| Message 35
Subject: Re: Warm water species in a cold climate
From: dreadlox
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 22:26:56 -0700
Arlos wrote:
> Somewhere in a back copy of Popular science was a recovered oil burner
> with EPA approval. this might be the ticket if you are in a rural area.I'll
> see what I can scrape up and send the info.
>
> Arlos
Arlos or others
.at home, just remembered are on the road. Does anyone
have the above info??
Mike.
. .
| Message 36
Subject: RE: nukes and such
From: "Mark Allen Wells"
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 22:59:24 -0500
Mark do you really think the Chinese would use a conventional warhead on any
missile sent our way? I think not!
There is something wrong with the picture you are painting is seems to be
leaning to far left.
Brent
-
Brent,
this is my last post on this subject
.I didn't mean for it to get out
of hand. No
.I don't actually think China would do such a thing. But
when I was in the military, I saw many things in the world I never
thought I would. As long as China, Russia, the middle east and even
ourselves produce weapons of mass destruction, anything is possible
even if the odds are extremely remote. We planned for the worst, hoped
for the best. There are terrorists in the middle east who believe killing
Americans will bring them eternal life in paradise. Look at the World
Trade Center bombing (let's hope they never get access to warheads).
I just feel an energy infrastructure should not carry the inherent
risk that nuclear energy does. I agree that my picture may not have
been a totally realistic one. The missile example may not have been a
good one but throughout history things have happened that were never
supposed to happen. I just feel better harnessing the sun's nuclear energy
at a safe distance with my solar panels than having a reactor
in my backyard. I am passionate about many things
.from family farms,
to creating a better world for my son. Sometimes that passion gets the
better of me. I've seen science suppressed in energy, medicine and many
areas that could benefit mankind tremendously
but it has to fight
the current technology it threatens. It shouldn't be this way.
Ever study any of the work of Colonel Tom Bearden? Colonel Bearden is
a nuclear engineer, wargames analyst, and military tactician with over
26 years experience in air defense systems, tactics and operations,
technical intelligence, antiradiation missile countermeasures and nuclear
weapons employment. His work on the Principles of Permissible
Overunity Electromagnetic Power Systems is fascinating
he does not
see the future of energy in nuclear reactors.
http://www.cheniere.org/techpapers/on_the_principles_of_permissible.htm
I like what he had to say about science in general
"One problem is all science is patronized, that is, somebody has to
pay the freight, somebody has to pay the bills
The bureaucracy in
science that controls the money flow, what money shall be spent and
what it shall be spent for controls all of science. What people do
not realize is science is not free at all in this country -- it is
highly constricted. There are plenty of bright, young Ph.D.s that
would love to work on this kind of thing, but the scientific community
will not allow them because the bureaucracy will not give them any
funds. And if they try to work on their own in this area they get
destroyed, pure and simple".
I know I am a dreamer and talk too much so I will stop
.LOL.
take care everyone,
mark
. .
| Message 37
Subject: Re: Help needed on some research questions
From: "Cary Dizon"
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 21:25:05 -0700
Try your school library. Speak to the government documents librarian and
ask for the latest Census publications on rural populations. The Labor
Department also puts out a number of publications on these subjects.
CPD
----
>From: "bennett"
>
>Subject: Help needed on some research questions
>Date: Mon, Aug 6, 2001, 10:45 AM
>
> Hello all,
> I am writing a paper to be a forerunner to a loan and/or grant proposal
> for an aquaponics set-up. I heard of this opportunity just 2 1/2 weeks
> before the deadline for completion. Could you all help me out a bit by
> providing some helpful answers? Here goes:
>
> * Arlos mentioned "the largest change in career (over 50 group) in the
> US is towards horticulture". I would like to know where that statement
> might "officially" have been made. Or, rather, what study or proof exists
> to that effect. (Need the bibliographical reference.)
> * Where can the following statement (or something similar) be "proven"
> or is documented for bibliographical reference: The rural
> workforce/population (over 50??) is aging faster than any other geographical
> group. "Rural" in this case to mean any other than "big city metro".:-)
> Need numbers, percentages, etc. etc.
> * Where can I find the numbers (on the Internet) that show a shift of
> land from small farm use to either non-farm use or large scale agribusiness
> use?
> * Where can I find numbers, graphs, etc. (on the Internet) that show
> rising fuel prices in a way that might effect farmers or "under-glass
> greenhouse" growers?
>
> Please accept, in advance, my hearty thank yous. If you really like doing
> this sort of investigative work, I've got lots more questions and answers
> that I need to document sources for in the next two or three days!
>
> D.
>
>
>
>
. .
| Message 38
Subject: cherry tomato varieties
From: "Mark Allen Wells"
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 23:27:17 -0500
back to plants
I was wondering what cherry tomato varieties do
well in hydroponics. I don't have lots of experience
here yet and so far have only tried Sweet 100's.
I prefer the lower acid types
.any suggestions?
thanks,
mark
|
